S31: Kimmi Kappenberg

[Whimsy]

Meet Kimmi Kappenberg from Survivor: The Australian Outback (Season 2), who returns to play on Survivor Cambodia: Second Chance.

 

Kimmi hails from Survivor: The Australian Outback, one of the most watched seasons in the series' history. With no real alliance on her side, Kimmi finished 12th and provided a lot of over-the-top moments.

 

For example, she ate a mangrove worm to win Immunity for her tribe and got into an infamous finger-wagging fight over chickens with fellow castaway Alicia Calaway. She's often remembered as being the show's first vegetarian, too.

 

 

Here is your Kimmi Kappenberg topic.

[LadyChatts]

I was pleasantly surprised Kimmi even made it onto the voting ballot, especially over some people who were (allegedly) cut.  Even though she hailed from one of the more popular and most watched seasons ever, I figured being such an early boot would work against her, especially if recency bias was a factor.  I never knew until recently Kimmi was the one who blabbed about Jeff's lone vote that ended up getting him booted in that tie breaker.  Of course Jeff really only has himself to blame for getting voted off, since he jumped off that pole for peanut butter.  Loved her reaction at being told she was coming back, and her upbeat attitude in her pre-game interviews.  I feel like there is a different vibe of enthusiasm between the old schoolers and new schoolers.  Hoping she makes it far!

Edited September 23, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Tryangle]

The main question I have is, when will there be a food eating challenge that involves meat, to bring back Kimmi's major obstacle (well aside from finger-waving battles)?

 

That aside, she looks good and looks happy to be playing again.

[Wandering Snark]

I just hope she can find herself a nice quiet place to masturbate (as she wondered out loud about on her season).

[cooksdelight]

I just realized who it is I think of when I see her....it dawned on me due to one of the promoted stories at the bottom.

Mary Hartman! Louise Lasser in younger days.

[Jextella]

I just realized who it is I think of when I see her....it dawned on me due to one of the promoted stories at the bottom.

Mary Hartman! Louise Lasser in younger days.

 

You nailed it!

 

I read a post elsewhere in which the writer was saying he/she would be praying for Kimmi and Terry Deitz's son.  Anyone know if KImmis has some major issue going in her life like Terry does with his son?

[cooksdelight]

No, haven't heard a thing about Kimmi having a son with health issues.

[ProfCrash]

I thought I had read both of her kids had health or emotional development issues. Jeff said he wanted to keep her in as long as possible be ause she really needed it for her kids.

[Guest]

“She’s had a very rough life,” says Varner. “Her marriage fell apart. She’s had financial trouble. She has a kid with kidney disease. She’s a 40-something waitress. She’s struggling. I want her to get as far and make as much money as she can.”

 

http://parade.com/418991/joshwigler/survivors-jeff-varner-has-a-million-things-on-his-mind/4/

[LadyChatts]

“She’s had a very rough life,” says Varner. “Her marriage fell apart. She’s had financial trouble. She has a kid with kidney disease. She’s a 40-something waitress. She’s struggling. I want her to get as far and make as much money as she can.”

 

http://parade.com/418991/joshwigler/survivors-jeff-varner-has-a-million-things-on-his-mind/4/

 

That is so sad.  I remember hearing that Kimmi had a son with some health issues.  I guess I didn't realize it was this serious.  How horrible.  I absolutely adore Kimmi, and this makes me want to root for her even more.  

 

Putting that aside-all I could think of tonight was yay Kimmi!  I am hoping that girl's game play is underestimated, and this wasn't just a one time thing where she was able to get Monica out and she goes back to being a follower in an alliance.  I want to see her making moves (as long as they don't screw her over).  I do think she's a little more strategic than I was expecting.  I fully expected Kimmi to just go with the flow and vote however the majority was voting (or be like Woo and left out of the loop).  I thought she'd be the same loud, fun, Kimmi from Outback.  Still is, but glad to see maybe she's grown in gameplay and learned from the past.

[Oscirus]

I have to give it to Kimmi for gameplay. Not only do we see Kimmi marking Monica for death. But we even see her convincing  Jeremy to sit out the IC.  There was also a subtle hint that Kimmi is secretly working with Spence. She's got game this time around

[viajero]

To me, Kimmie came across as petty, a bit of mean-girl and a poor strategist.  While I have to give her credit for using the right tactics to get the guys to go along with  the blindside, I still don't see how getting rid of Monica at this point in the game helps her in any way in the long-run.  What it came down to is that she found Monica annoying and decided to go after her based pretty much only on that.

[Oscirus]

If you don't like someone in survivor, that's what you have to do. Otherwise, you wind up in a similar situation to Tasha, relying on somebody that you don't like  to get you further in the game. That rarely works.

[azshadowwalker]

Kimmi had good strategic reasons for getting Monica out. Monica was already blabbing about her other plans based upon people outside the alliance. 

[LanceM]

Kimmi had good strategic reasons for getting Monica out. Monica was already blabbing about her other plans based upon people outside the alliance. 

 

How by saying it might be better for both of them to get rid of Spencer as opposed to Kelly?  How is keeping Spencer around better for her game?

[kikaha]

Excellent strategic play by Kimmi, to take out someone she doesn't like and who clearly has a different agenda from hers.  My one concern is that Kimmi had trouble containing her emotions.  She was almost shaking with frustration and anger over Monica, both after the fishing disagreement and when telling Jeremy and Stephen (who she calls "Steve") about Monica's all-girl plans. 

 

I personally think all-girl's alliances make as much sense as all guy's alliances, i.e. zero -- unless the specifics of the game call for it.  Some examples where it did were One World (the guys were idiots and Kim had a great group of women she could work with and control) and Micronesia (Cirie and Parvati working together is like a quadruple dose of toxic menace to anyone not with them). 

[viajero]

Excellent strategic play by Kimmi, to take out someone she doesn't like and who clearly has a different agenda from hers.  My one concern is that Kimmi had trouble containing her emotions.  She was almost shaking with frustration and anger over Monica, both after the fishing disagreement and when telling Jeremy and Stephen (who she calls "Steve") about Monica's all-girl plans. 

 

I personally think all-girl's alliances make as much sense as all guy's alliances, i.e. zero -- unless the specifics of the game call for it.  Some examples where it did were One World (the guys were idiots and Kim had a great group of women she could work with and control) and Micronesia (Cirie and Parvati working together is like a quadruple dose of toxic menace to anyone not with them). 

 

None of this explains why it made since for Kimmie to get rid of Monica now.  Nothing Monica was proposing was a direct threat to Kimmie.  Just because Monica might have a different longer term agenda didn't make her a threat at this point in the game.  The immediate choice was between Monica and Wigglesworth.  Out of spite, Kimmie chose to save a person with whom she has no alliance and who has strong ties to people on other tribes over someone committed to her alliance in the short-term and with no interest in going after other women in the long-term.  Even if Kimmie had no interest in a women's alliance, the smart thing to do would have been to play along with Monica for now.

Edited October 22, 2015 by viajero

[LadyChatts]

If Kimmi didn't see a future with Monica in the long term, it makes perfect sense to get rid of her now.  Why keep someone around that isn't going to be on the same page with you down the road, and may potentially flip on you once they get the chance?  Old Bayon still outnumbers old Ta'Keo; however, I 100% believe that old tribal divisions are non existent, or at least, new sub alliances are going to be made until everyone can see where the other goes at the merge.  My feeling is a lot was left out as to why Kimmi, Stephen, and Jeremy targeted Monica.  I have to think it was more than just Monica getting on Kimmi's nerves or mentioning a girl's alliance.  In addition, Kelly seems like somewhat of a floater.  But maybe that's really all there was.  Since it was all that was shown, and that's all we have to go on, then I can understand the Bayon 3 wanting to get rid of Monica if they felt she would turn on them down the road.  From Monica's day after vid, she mentions she didn't really gel with her tribe.  I'm thinking they weren't as tight of a unit as we were led to believe.  

Edited October 22, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Zuleikha]

Why keep someone around that isn't going to be on the same page with you down the road, and may potentially flip on you once they get the chance?

Why boot someone who's interested in working with you? What is the upside to that? Nothing Monica proposed threatened Kimmi, and Spencer/Kelly are also potential flip risks. 

[LadyChatts]

Why boot someone who's interested in working with you? What is the upside to that? Nothing Monica proposed threatened Kimmi, and Spencer/Kelly are also potential flip risks. 

 

But Kimmi must have felt threatened if she turned on Monica.  She obviously didn't want or care about keeping the girls numbers up, and I'm not sure why Monica thought it was such an issue.  This doesn't strike me as the type of season where the girls are going to get picked off for being outnumbered.  So once she realized that was what Monica intended down the road, she may have figured she'd be toast if she didn't go along with it.  All Monica had to do was zip it about the girls alliance and she might have been okay (though I still think there is way more to it than that-hopefully we get something in Monica's exit interviews).  Again, only from what we saw, Monica wanted to keep Kelly to keep the girls numbers up.  But apparently she wanted to stay loyal to Bayon or at least to Stephen and Jeremy for now.  So she hears Monica say that, and may wonder if she may flip on her/them down the road to get her girls alliance, or just to go against them if she sees a better offer.  I can respect that Kimmi had a good reason to get rid of Monica.  And Stephen and Jeremy went along with it, so it isn't like it was just Kimmi.  They could have easily betrayed Kimmi and voted her out, or still voted out Wigles and left Kimmi hanging as the lone Monica vote.  That's why I think there is more to this.  And again why they need to go old school with the editing and show us more of the dynamics going on each episode.  Then maybe this won't be so confusing when a vote like this happens.

 

Granted, I don't think this was the season Monica was going to get a successful girls alliance, so in hindsight Kimmi had nothing to worry about long term. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by LadyChatts

[kikaha]

None of this explains why it made since for Kimmie to get rid of Monica now.  Nothing Monica was proposing was a direct threat to Kimmie.  Just because Monica might have a different longer term agenda didn't make her a threat at this point in the game. 

 

I really see it different.  Kimmi is all about Bayon and keeping it strong.  Monica flat-out showed her she did NOT care about Bayon.  She wanted a women's alliance.  Kimmi couldn't care less about that, and (rightly) saw Monica as a threat.   

 

I also think it's real unlikely a women's alliance could take over this season.  Too many real good players, of both genders.  Sorry to repeat, but I recall the women's alliance working twice.  In Micronesia, where experienced players were up against newbies, and the two women running the show are among the best players in the history of Survivor; and in One World, where Kim was fantastic, the rest of the women a good supporting cast, and the men a group of morons.  Conditions this season don't seem conducive to me for this, not at all. 

Why boot someone who's interested in working with you? What is the upside to that? Nothing Monica proposed threatened Kimmi, and Spencer/Kelly are also potential flip risks. 

But it DID threaten her.  It threatened the entire alliance Kimmi is part of, and wants to work with going forward. 

 

i.e. Monica already wants to flip on Kimmi's alliance. 

[ByaNose]

I'm guessing this was a personality move rather than a game move. Keeping Spencer was a dumb move strategically. They should have kept their majority 4 & voted our Spencer or at least, Kelly. I think Kimmi likes playing with the guys better. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will Kimmi & Jeremy make jury? Will Spencer win? Will Kelly talk and/or get a personality?

[viajero]

Monica did not want to flip on Kimmie's alliance and in fact she didn't do so.  She voted for Kelly, assuming that was what her alliance had decided to do.  She simply proposed that they consider voting for Spencer instead of Kelly in case a woman's alliance become a possibility down the road.  While this idea might represent an eventual threat to the men in Kimmie's alliance, it was no threat to Kimmie herself.  In fact the opposite is true.  Monica seemed inclined to see Kimmie as her primary ally and would have been easy to play along whatever Kimmie's real intentions were.  In the end, it was Kimmie who broke the alliance by ratting out Monica to the men. 

 

. 

[LadyChatts]

Ultimately, Monica waffled.  Even if she did vote Kelly like she thought her tribe was going to, she entertained something down the road that Kimmi was not onboard with and saw as a threat to her male allies.  Just like how PG waffled and Shirin waffled.  They both got voted out.  When something is locked in, go with it.  Want to make a move and play aggressively, make sure you can pull it off.  Only 3 people knew how that vote was going tonight.  That's great gameplay, imo.  I still think there is more to it.  Actually, we may not get the whole story until we hear from Kimmi, Stephen, and Jeremy, too.  Monica will no doubt have a different take on things.  But suddenly she's a threat, a loose cannon, a liability-I don't believe that all came from just not liking her or the girls alliance.  I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to the conversation with Kimmi and Monica about long term plans, and Kimmi knew she wasn't going to stay solid with them.  Of course, that is speculation.

 

Only time will tell if Kimmi and the guys made the right move or not.  Spencer was at the bottom of the Ta'Keo alliance, so he may have no intention of voting with them once the merge happens (if he makes it) and stick with Bayon.  The old Bayon at Ta'Keo formed an alliance that didn't include their other former Bayon members at their old camp and Angkor.  I don't think it is going to matter when the old Bayon members see that Monica is gone.  According to Varner, Tasha and Savage completely sold out their tribe to save themselves.  Wentworth is throwing Terry under the bus, and Kelly and Spencer were fighting hard at the Bayon camp, selling out Ta'Keo (I believe that was in Stephen's blog when the swap first happened).  In a repeat player season, tribal lines don't stay intact as often.  It seems like old Ta'Keo doesn't have any interest in voting along their old lines anymore, and instead are teaming up with Bayon.  

Edited October 22, 2015 by LadyChatts

[kikaha]

Monica did not want to flip on Kimmie's alliance and in fact she didn't do so.  . 

 

Monica floated the idea of a woman's alliance.  That has to mean breaking up her existing alliance, which has men in it. 

 

Kimmi was not the only person who saw this.  So did Stephen and Jeremy.  They voted Monica out, because already, in the early phase of the game, she's talking about forming another alliance, that does not include them.  i.e. Monica will throw them under the bus, when she feels the time is right. 

 

Monica was very clear about this in her confessionals.  She said she was looking long-term.  She forgot to keep her eye on the ball now. 

 

Monica is at least the second, and maybe the third player this season who has pretty much self-evicted.  PG and she both were perfectly safe, and put the targets on their own backs with careless talk.  Shirin was in good shape -- pretty good shape anyway -- but couldn't keep herself from mocking one of her alliance mates.  Makes me appreciate Sandra's skill all that much more. 

[KimberStormer]

Well, I'm really surprised so see so much pro-this-move sentiment out there.  I think it was a terrible move, and having never seen Kimmi before, I have a very low opinion of her now.  This move is bananas!  How can it be good?  Monica was not a "loose cannon", "threatening her alliance", or any of this stuff.  To me this is like Jeremy's talking head, reminding me of what I don't like about Jeremy: "Suggest a women's alliance??  Why would she do that??" as though anything that's not "Jeremy wins the game" is incomprehensibly stupid.  Monica mentioned--just mentioned!--that maybe they should keep the women's numbers up.  Why?  For options.  What happens down the road when Kimmi is on the bottom of her stupid Bayon alliance, which she will be (because playing "for your tribe" is what makes you a worthless pawn, and it is ridiculous to criticize someone for playing for herself)?  She could perhaps have flipped, with Monica and some other women, but there's an option she just got rid of for no goddamn reason at all.  (That doesn't mean she needs to putting together a game-winning women's alliance in the spirit of the Black Widow Brigade, any more than Tony flipping on LJ made him a permanent member of the Brains tribe.)  Plus, she's the one who just destroyed the Bayon alliance!  That alliance is severely damaged now!  Like Stephen mentioned, the other two tribes will know at the next challenge that they can't count on Bayon anymore.  That's not Monica's doing.  All Monica suggested was holding on to another option for one more vote.  She never even suggested a Bayon, or an aggressive stance of any kind.

 

If we're bringing up Kim, look.  Kim gets to the merge with two alliances--the women, and NuSalani with Troyzan, Mike, and Jay.  Who to vote for?  She could break her women's alliance, and vote a woman.  She could break her NuSalani alliance, and vote Troy or whatever.  Or she could keep both options by voting someone who's in neither group, which is what she does, because she's a smart cookie and not a total moron.  In fact she does so by voting out Jonas, which pretty much eliminates Troy and Jay's option to flip on her (she's said in interviews that Troy and Jonas combining forces was her biggest worry and that she won the game by making this vote), and basically everyone but Jonas is still happy and feels like everything is going according to plan.  Now voting out Monica might make a little sense for Jeremy, might make a little sense for Stephen, since they're boys.  But it makes none for Kimmi.  She just tied herself to one alliance which she will never be on the top of while at the exact same time severely undermining the strength of that very alliance.  I don't get it.  If Kimmi wins this game I will still call this a dumb move that makes no sense.

Monica floated the idea of a woman's alliance.  That has to mean breaking up her existing alliance, which has men in it. 

 

No it doesn't!  Where are you getting this idea?  All she said was keeping the women's numbers up!  That doesn't mean she suddenly can't be a Bayon anymore!  That means she has a defensive possibility for when these alpha bros decide to take out the ladies!  You know what breaks up an existing alliance?  Voting one of its members out, which is what Kimmi did! 

[LadyChatts]

Monica floated the idea of a woman's alliance.  That has to mean breaking up her existing alliance, which has men in it. 

 

Kimmi was not the only person who saw this.  So did Stephen and Jeremy.  They voted Monica out, because already, in the early phase of the game, she's talking about forming another alliance, that does not include them.  i.e. Monica will throw them under the bus, when she feels the time is right. 

 

Monica was very clear about this in her confessionals.  She said she was looking long-term.  She forgot to keep her eye on the ball now. 

 

Monica is at least the second, and maybe the third player this season who has pretty much self-evicted.  PG and she both were perfectly safe, and put the targets on their own backs with careless talk.  Shirin was in good shape -- pretty good shape anyway -- but couldn't keep herself from mocking one of her alliance mates.  Makes me appreciate Sandra's skill all that much more. 

 

Totally agree (and I'll agree to disagree with people who think it was a bad move).  I don't always think looking long term is a bad idea.  But Monica had no idea if a women's alliance would work, or if the very person she was talking to about keeping the women's numbers up would go along with that idea.  A women's alliance was never going to work this season anyway.  Monica dug her own grave, as far as I'm concerned.  I knew when I heard her pre-game interviews that she mentioned her strategy was going to be like Parvati's, I figured she'd never pull it off and screw it up for herself.  She supposedly had this aggressive game play going on (which either the editors didn't care to show it since she was going to be a non factor this season, or she has a very different definition of what aggressive means).  So my feeling is, she might have been playing too hard, too fast.  At any rate, for Kimmi's game, I don't know if this was a bad move or not.  Only time will tell.  Tribal lines look to be non existent after tonight anyway, and I figured once the swap happened they probably were.  I think Kimmi will be safe at the merge, as people may be targeting the alphas (an alliance Stephen, Kass, Keith, and Ciera were never a part of to begin with, either).  And who knows if that Ta'Keo 5 alliance is the real deal or not, so Monica or not Kimmi might have been screwed no matter what.  I do think we are in for a lot more #blindsides like we saw tonight.  

Edited October 22, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Oscirus]

Someone  with a strategy as transparent as a unisex  alliance without anything to back it up other then the idea is a dangerous person to keep around this close to the merge. The other alliance could  easily manipulate her into doing their bidding by voting off the males in the opposing alliance and just dump her when there's no more use for her. For the earliest example of this  see Jenna L on season 1.

 

To me this is like Jeremy's talking head, reminding me of what I don't like about Jeremy: "Suggest a women's alliance??  Why would she do that??" as though anything that's not "Jeremy wins the game" is incomprehensibly stupid.

 

Bringing up the idea that you're considering turning on your alliance to another alliance member on what should be an easy vote is really stupid. Try to get Spencer up and out, if it doesn't work, move on. You don't go into detail with your future plans to someone who could rat you out.

 

It was a great move for kimmi she proved her faithfulness to her alliance and got rid of someone who was a nuisance to her. There's no detriment to her.

[KimberStormer]

No, it proved her faithlessness to her alliance.  She voted against her alliance. 

 

Someone  with a strategy as transparent as a unisex  alliance without anything to back it up other then the idea is a dangerous person to keep around this close to the merge. The other alliance could  easily manipulate her into doing their bidding by voting off the males in the opposing alliance and just dump her when there's no more use for her. For the earliest example of this  see Jenna L on season 1.

 

Bringing up the idea that you're considering turning on your alliance to another alliance member on what should be an easy vote is really stupid. Try to get Spencer up and out, if it doesn't work, move on. You don't go into detail with your future plans to someone who could rat you out.

 

This is insane.  Monica did not talk about turning on her alliance.  She suggested they might want to keep the women's numbers up.  How else to get Spencer up and out?  What would could be better than giving a 100% rational reason to someone who has absolutely nothing to dislike about that reason?  It couldn't possibly hurt Kimmi.  It could only help her.  And the idea that Monica could be easily manipulated by the opposite side is also bananas.  Why on earth does that follow?  You really think Monica would be like "well, this hurts my numbers, but I guess I'll vote against men, because simply by mentioning the male-female ratio, it automatically means that getting rid of the men is my #1 priority because of my deep-rooted irrational misandry!"  She didn't even vote for Spencer this time, she did exactly what her alliance had decided to do.  She merely expressed scruples.  There is literally no difference between her considering between Kelly and Spencer and Jeremy, Stephen, and Kimmi considering between Kelly and Spencer.

Again, Monica did not say "let's form a women's alliance", not even a sub-alliance, much less "BAYON IS DEAD TO ME GIRLS RULE BOYS DROOL BLACK WIDOWS 2015 I CAN'T WAIT TO VOTE OUT JEREMY RN!!!!!".  She said let's keep the women's numbers up, because right now they're even.  That right there should have been music to Kimmi's ears; it means she's Monica's #1 ally, as the other person in the Venn diagram overlap between OldBayon, NuBayon, and Women.  It's like absolute proof that Monica's not going to turn on her.  It gives her lots and lots to work with.  Maybe she doesn't want to vote Spencer out for whatever reason (I can't right now think of any reason whatsoever to not vote Spencer, but maybe she has one.)  All she has to do is what she did, say "no Monica I think not this time" and, as in fact happened, Monica will say "OK" and vote for Kelly.  Not go running to the men saying "we have to take Monica out right away!"  Which makes no sense at all.  Maybe LadyChatts is right and something else was going on, but as far as the episode is concerned it was either the clam fight or "omg old school, tribe uber alles!" which are both stupid nonsense reasons to vote someone out.

I can tell I'm going to have a fun week of arguing about this, I love Survivor

[loki567]

And the other point to make is the fact the majority alliance on old Bayon is a guys' alliance (excluding Tasha) that decided to ally strictly because they're strong guys. And two of the previous four seasons (BvW, SDSJ) also had attempts at guys' alliances. It's really not unreasonable to keep the options gender-wise.

 

I agree with KimberStormer, I think good players really keep their options open for as long as possible until they have to make a decision. I doubt we'll look back and say this is the moment that Kimmi lost the game, but I think it speaks poorly of her gameplay that she'd basically went out of her way to cut off a potential ally. That's what's kinda amazing to me, Jeremy and Stephen didn't even seem to want to do it, it was almost purely a Kimmi decision. 

 

For comparison's sake, I think Jeremy and Stephen want to keep Spencer around as a potential option in the event that they need him. 

[marys1000]

I don't remember her from whatever season she was on on but I really disliked her in this episode.  I don't know who Monica is either so its not because she engineered a blindside of a favorite. 

I didn't like her secret scenes about Monica - all the OMG's she's so stupid you just eat all the clams how could you not I'm older and wiser blah blah blah.  Then, to me it seemed, she took all that irritation and engineered that blindside because she was looking for ways to get rid of Monica because of how much Monica got on her nerves.  She as much as said she was looking for a reason. 

 

So Monica says, well maybe we should consider keeping the women numbers up.  She seemed to be clearly on board with the Wigglesworth vote at tribal - "yes Jeff I think the vote is locked down".  She really wasn't rocking the boat, just wondering about long game possibilities.  One thing I've noticed about Survivor - do not ponder possibilities aloud.  That was basically Monica's mistake.  Because even if its just a vague idea someone will freak out about it.

Even if you don't agree with that Kimmi made a really made a much bigger deal out of it to get the other two on board and I hope Wigglesworth and Spender kick her ass just because I found that whole clam conversation so irritating and she was playing emotion not strategy by getting rid of an alliance member just because she didn't like her. 

[JudyObscure]

I just watched those opening scenes with Monica and Kimmi and I have to say, I found Kimmi despicable.  Monica was so happy and positive about going gathering with Kimmi and very friendly and polite when reminding Kimmi that their cove had been full of clams when they first got there but now it was almost empty so maybe they should save a few for later.  Kimmi, on the other hand was almost yelling at Monica saying, "NO! I'm hungry now!"    Then Kimmi gives an interview about how annoying and awful Monica is and how much patience she has to use to put up with her, even using the condescending "pumpkin," when talking about her.  She just couldn't believe that Monica was too dumb to understand the "bird-in-a-hand" fable and I guess Kimmi never heard the one about the killing the Golden Goose. 

 

Finally Kimmi sums up with, "I'm not used to having to listen to other people's opinions about things."  I think that's Kimmi in a nutshell.  If you want to get along with her you have to let her have her way about everything with no questions asked.  She called out Alicia for disagreeing with her about chickens and now poor Monica got blindsided just by suggesting they leave a few clams behind.  I pity the people she works with.

[kikaha]

Just watched Monica's morning after video.  She did not have a clue why they voted her out.  She thought her mistake was trusting Jeremy and Stephen.  She had no idea her problem was with Kimmi. 

 

She admitted she was working with J & S out of necessity, and probably would have quickly flipped on them.  At the same time, she says they made a huge mistake in booting her.  Her first statement shows they did not make a mistake.  By her own words, she would have dumped them at any second. 

 

Kimmi was right.  Monica felt no allegiance to Kimmi's alliance.  She would have flipped the second she could.  It was clear to the others in her alliance as well. 

 

In some ways, Monica was like Jeff Varner.  Both crafty.  Both playing the game hard from the get-go.  Both with allegiances and interests outside their supposed tribe/alliance. IMO both their tribes made the right decisions to boot them. 

[peachmangosteen]

I can tell I'm going to have a fun week of arguing about this, I love Survivor

 

Me too!

 

I am 100% with Kimber on this. Like I am actually somewhat flabbergasted that the majority of the audience seems to believe this was actually an amazing move by Kimmi.

 

I will say that everyone's arguments for it are decent, but the fact is none of those reasons are why Kimmi did it. From what we've been shown, through every scene and confessional in this ep as well as the extra vids, Kimmi didn't like Monica and pettily voted her out for it. I guess there's a chance there's footage of Kimmi giving some solid strategic reasons for it, but I truly doubt it.

 

Kimmi was right.  Monica felt no allegiance to Kimmi's alliance.

 

I think Kimmi's main reason for this was "Monica doesn't agree with everything I say and I don't like her," but also she does seem to think the most important thing is being loyal to Jeremy/Stephen as opposed to making moves that will benefit her personally. Which is monumentally stupid.

 

I'm really disappointed actually. I wanted to root for Kimmi. But not only is she stupid, she's also just really unpleasant as a person. Oh well.

Edited October 22, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[LadyChatts]

I can tell I'm going to have a fun week of arguing about this, I love Survivor

 

 

Even though I disagree with your points, you make valid ones and I am enjoying reading them!  This is the fun of Survivor and the boards, a nice lively spirited debate.  Although I never would have guessed Kimmi of all people would be the one providing one of the bigger polarizing moments of the season (so far).  I totally underestimated her on that. 

 

For purely selfish reasons, I'm glad the vote went the way it did: I didn't care for Monica, but loved Kelly/Spencer, so I am glad they are still there for at least another week.  Plus, that is how you pull off a blindside.  From the perspective of a viewer, I love the ones that get the funny faces at tribal.  I still believe there had to be more to the vote, but obviously that gets into speculation territory at this point, which is something else we could argue about until the end of the season.  I always think there are pros and cons to being on a tribe that wins the first few challenges-people get comfortable, and someone who may not have originally been a target suddenly finds themselves taking the walk of shame.  I think it is different on seasons like this, as strength isn't always the #1 priority at keeping people around, nor is tribe loyalty.

[Guest]

Yeah, the fact that she was almost shaking with rage at Monica tells me her vote was pure emotion.  I too thought it was a petty, stupid move and Kimmi came off looking like the loose cannon herself.  

 

I think all day long these people discuss strategies and options with their (presumed) allies.  When we're shown it it's only because it either backfired royally (this case) or becomes the winning strategy.  And this early since the win is so far out, we're being shown the backfires most often.  So it's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback and think that strategizing AT ALL is stupid this early in the game.  But everyone still there is also, I believe, strategizing and we're just not seeing it.  

 

Or maybe not.  But sitting back and doing nothing at all also can backfire so I don't have any scorn for the players.  Though some of them clearly were doing too much too soon.  I don't feel like Monica was.  But she sure did read Kimmi wrong, which is a big enough game flaw.  

 

And out in the cove clamming she could've made it more clear her concern wasn't for the clam population, it was for their future food supply.  If the clams weren't replenishing themselves over 2 weeks, I don't think they were suddenly going to start, so she was smart to consider it, unlike Kimmi who acted like they could pick up the phone and order more clams next week.

.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Excellent strategic play by Kimmi, to take out someone she doesn't like and who clearly has a different agenda from hers.  My one concern is that Kimmi had trouble containing her emotions.  She was almost shaking with frustration and anger over Monica, both after the fishing disagreement and when telling Jeremy and Stephen (who she calls "Steve") about Monica's all-girl plans. 

 

I don't know if this was a great strategic move or not because I don't know if it was necessary to dump Monica yet (although I think it's clear that Kimmi feels more loyalty to her existing alliance with Jeremy and Steven than she does to a potential alliance with Monica and some other women).  I think Kimmi overreacted emotionally, though - she was shaking, she seemed to be extremely angry that someone might propose a different alliance (that includes Kimmi is should be noted) and therefore that person needs to go immediately.

 

From a tactical standpoint, though, I think Kimmi handled this perfectly.  They did not tell Wigglesworth or Spencer to vote for Monica so there was no chance one of them runs to Monica in an attempt to save their skins/improve their position.  Also, the message was clear to Wigglesworth and Spencer - you're not part of our alliance.  It was obvious that Kelly and Spencer would vote for each other, thus cancelling out their votes and Monica would vote for whoever she thought was the target.  Keeping the real voting information limited to only the people who really have to know is important - tell Spencer or Kelly and things can blow up in your face.

 

I guess Kimmi is one of those vegetarians who doesn't care about seafood.  And she had the right idea there - eat all the food you can get whenever it's available.

[Special K]

I guess Kimmi is one of those vegetarians who doesn't care about seafood. 

 

Or she's come to terms with the idea that, when starving, you should eat whatever is available.  I'm a vegetarian, and if I went on Survivor (as if!), I'd eat whatever I could get down.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Finally Kimmi sums up with, "I'm not used to having to listen to other people's opinions about things."  I think that's Kimmi in a nutshell.  If you want to get along with her you have to let her have her way about everything with no questions asked.  She called out Alicia for disagreeing with her about chickens and now poor Monica got blindsided just by suggesting they leave a few clams behind.  I pity the people she works with.

I just went back and looked at it.  The actual quote was  “I’m not used to someone giving me their opinion where it’s not welcome.”  Isn't Kimmi a WAITRESS?  I work in a service job too (public library) and while it's a drag to have someone giving me their opinion where it's not welcome it's certainly something I'm very, very used to doing, given that IT'S MY JOB.  A weird comment at best, and yes one that made her come off poorly to me.

 

It also makes me hope both she and Abi make it to the merge because that catfight is going to be fucking epic.

 

I was a vegetarian for 20+ years, omni now.  I spent much time in that milieu and  I still have many vegetarian/vegan friends -  and all I can say is, you know how they say "two Jews = three opinions"?  The veg world is the same - if you want to know what a veg considers a veg diet you have to ask them, and they will each have a rationale of some kind for what they will and will not eat.  That probably sounds a little snottier than I intended it - but I'm just saying it's not like there's some international Certification Board that determines whether you get to identify as a vegetarian/vegan - it's a path anyone can take on their own and choose to define on their own.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Jersey Guy 87]

Or she's come to terms with the idea that, when starving, you should eat whatever is available.  I'm a vegetarian, and if I went on Survivor (as if!), I'd eat whatever I could get down.

 

I don't disagree with that concept at all (although I'm a committed omnivore so it's kind of irrelevant, I guess).  I'm actually wondering if she's a "I eat seafood" vegetarian in real life or if she's eating seafood because you need to eat.

[Special K]

 

 The veg world is the same - if you want to know what a veg considers a veg diet you have to ask them, and they will each have a rationale of some kind for what they will and will not eat.  That probably sounds a little snottier than I intended it - but I'm just saying it's not like there's some international Certification Board that determines whether you get to identify as a vegetarian/vegan - it's a path anyone can take on their own and choose to define on their own.

 

Thanks for this!  I ONLY talk about my diet if people ask me (and now hardly even then) and even still non-vegetarians/vegans seem to think there is some kind of entry exam or certification (as you say) to qualify to call yourself a vegan or, even more, they are weirdly driven to expose that I'm being a hypocrite.  I mean, it would be like if you call yourself an omnivore, and I demand to know if you eat everything, like even slugs and crickets.   Ugh, who cares.  Eat what you want, when you want, and shut up about it. (That was not directed at you ratgirl!)

 

Having said all that, Kimmi DID make a big deal about what she would not eat during her original season. So.

[Zuleikha]

Monica felt no allegiance to Kimmi's alliance.  She would have flipped the second she could.  It was clear to the others in her alliance as well.

But Spencer and Wigles don't feel any allegiance to Kimmi's alliance. They also will flip as soon as they can (at least Spencer... Wigles sounds like she's just around for the ride). Also, Monica may not have felt allegiance to Stephen and Jeremy (although it's not like she was trying to vote them out), but she demonstrably felt allegiance to KIMMI. That's a great situation for Kimmi... it means that if Monica did want to flip at a future point, she likely would have told Kimmi about it and Kimmi could decide what to do with the information. Spencer and Wigles, by contrast, have no reason to be loyal to Kimmi (or Stephen or Jeremy), more reason to flip than Monica (since they know they're on the outs whereas Monica thought she wasn't), and no reason to communicate information to Kimmi. So what exactly is the upside to Kimmi's game of saving either Spencer or Wigles at Monica's expense?

 

As a short-term move, the blindside was an effective play. It's the type of move that makes for enjoyable TV. But it wasn't good strategy. It got rid of someone who was not a threat to Kimmi at all in favor of keeping one of two players who are. It also seems to have been purely about Kimmi not wanting to be disagreed with, which is pretty gross.

 

Or she's come to terms with the idea that, when starving, you should eat whatever is available.  I'm a vegetarian, and if I went on Survivor (as if!), I'd eat whatever I could get down.

I think that's the same short term thinking as the Monica boot. If you eat everything up when it's there, you'll starve more in the future. It's common sense to ration out food rsources. That's what they do with rice. IMHO, the only time to make an exception is if players are in an Angkor type situation where they haven't had food for an extended period of time, find/win a pile of food, and really need to rebuild strength quickly

[Guest]

That whole "I'm not used to opinions" thing, and her general demeanor and apparent lack of smarts, make me not surprised she hasn't gone far in life professionally. 

[KimberStormer]

Well, smart in the game and smart in real life are two completely different things.  We (or at least, I) don't know anything about Kimmi in real life and the things she's been through, a kid with a serious illness etc, would make things difficult for anybody.  I hope nobody takes my comments on her move here as reflecting on her as a human being.  I just think it was a bad move, that's all.

[NutMeg]

I just went back and looked at it.  The actual quote was  “I’m not used to someone giving me their opinion where it’s not welcome.”  Isn't Kimmi a WAITRESS?  I work in a service job too (public library) and while it's a drag to have someone giving me their opinion where it's not welcome it's certainly something I'm very, very used to doing, given that IT'S MY JOB.  A weird comment at best, and yes one that made her come off poorly to me.

It also makes me hope both she and Abi make it to the merge because that catfight is going to be fucking epic.

 

That quote was so weird - not only in the context of her job but of life in general and more particularly in the context of Survivor. I would think you want to hear all kind of opinions, that you like or not, so as to get a better read on the people you are playing with.

 

I was initially happy we got to see a bit of Kimmi (didn't see her first season), but the happiness soon gave way to me turning sour on her. After hearing her describe Monica as difficult, or whatever term she used, I'd like to introduce her to Abi asap. I'd even welcome a one episode EI situation where these two are exiled for a day or two. And I just know that Kimmi is exactly the time of person that Abi could hate at first sight!  

 

For people who saw her first season, what did you like about her? Did she display good strategy back then or was she more of a "character"? Or was she a good narrator? Thanks.  

Edited October 23, 2015 by NutMeg

[LadyChatts]

That quote was so weird - not only in the context of her job but of life in general and more particularly in the context of Survivor. I would think you want to hear all kind of opinions, that you like or not, so as to get a better read on the people you are playing with.

 

I was initially happy we got to see a bit of Kimmi (didn't see her first season), but the happiness soon gave way to me turning sour on her. After hearing her describe Monica as difficult, or whatever term she used, I'd like to introduce her to Abi asap. I'd even welcome a one episode EI situation where these two are exiled for a day or two. And I just know that Kimmi is exactly the time of person that Abi could hate at first sight!  

 

For people who saw her first season, what did you like about her? Did she display good strategy back then or was she more of a "character"? Or was she a good narrator? Thanks.  

 

Kimmi was no strategist back then.  Definitely a character.  She openly annoyed her tribe starting on day 1.  Kimmi was a young bartender from Long Island, who talked very loudly, yakking all night, talking about masturbating, farting, sex, and other things that made some of the other castaways uncomfortable (Debb, who was on Kimmi's tribe and the first boot that season, had said several times in interviews that Kimmi made her feel like an outsider when she'd bring up subjects Debb wasn't comfortable talking about, and then sort of call her out on not trying to socialize with the group).  Her birthday was going to overlap with the filming schedule, and she said she planned on going naked that day if she made it.  Jeff said he wanted to strangle her because her loud voice and accent was too much.  She nearly cost her tribe the second IC by not wanting to eat a cow brain, argued with Alicia over eating chickens,  wouldn't bath and got an odor that some of her tribe mates said made them want to hurl (which, given the circumstances, had to be pretty bad).  Kucha went on a winning streak in the immunity challenges, losing the first one but then winning the next 3.  So we didn't get to see a ton of strategy from that tribe or Kimmi, but there was no hope for her by the time Kucha finally lost another IC.  That winning streak only prolonged the inevitable for her.  Kimmi wasn't the sole reason Debb's game was sunk (she annoyed her castmates for being bossy, acting like a know it all, and trying to wrangle the leadership position, for starters) but I honestly think had Debb better integrated with her tribe mates socially, and hadn't stuck out like a sore thumb for trying to be scout master Survivor, Kimmi would have gone first.

Edited October 23, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Zuleikha]

Kimmi was good TV, but she wasn't a good player. 

 

ETA: I lost track of which thread I was in. Oops! I'm moving the rest of this post to the episode thread where I intended to post it.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Zuleikha

[kikaha]

More and more, it seems to me like no one really liked or trusted Monica for whatever reason, and when she gave a sign that she would be an active player rather than a passive goat, they took it as a justification to vote her out.

 

Here's how I would word that:  "When she gave a sign that she had no loyalty to the Bayon alliance, and would flip against the men on a dime, they voted her out."

[KimberStormer]

Voting with the Bayon alliance, and not flipping on the men but voting for a woman, is an interesting way to make that sign!

[Guest]

Well, smart in the game and smart in real life are two completely different things.  We (or at least, I) don't know anything about Kimmi in real life and the things she's been through, a kid with a serious illness etc, would make things difficult for anybody.  I hope nobody takes my comments on her move here as reflecting on her as a human being.  I just think it was a bad move, that's all.

I'll extrapolate to real life.  This game is probably physically grueling but the actual knowing how to play is not rocket science.  

 

Kimmi and I think Keith didn't even bother watching the seasons of the people they'd be playing against.  It's hard for me to respect that.  I feel like they're wasting their time out there and taking a spot from someone who is actually a fan of the show and understands it.  I'd have more respect for her if she stayed home with her little boys and kept watching Sponge Bob, since that was more important than Survivor to her.