Green Arrow In Comics

[Lantern7]

I figured that since Arrow has a forum, there should be a thread for Oliver Queen in comic books.

For me, I have some exposure to Green Arrow . . . mostly through Brad Metzler and Judd Winick's runs on the book; the former exploring the will of a hero (Ollie) who wound up coming back to life. I also have the "Hard Traveling Heroes" collection from the Seventies . . . that's the run of Green Lantern where Ollie and pal Hal Jordan explore America and the hot button issues of the day. From what I can remember, that's also when Ollie became a hardcore liberal and grew the sweet mustache and goatee, becoming truer to the Robin Hood myth. I'm not following the "new52" version of Ollie, but I've heard good things about what writer Jeff Lemire has done for the book.

What stories have you guys read about Green Arrow? Do you like his current look, or did you think he should've stayed a Batman knockoff with an archery motif?

[Zalyn]

Great topic idea!  I don't follow comics closely, so I was only familiar with Green Arrow from the animated Justice League show.  After watching Arrow, I decided to pick up The Longbow Hunters, partially because it sounded interesting and partially because it takes place in Seattle (my hometown!). I haven't started it yet; I want to savor it when I've finished my rewatch.

From my light background research on GA in the comics, I'm intrigued by how he's portrayed as quite politically liberal and interested in social justice in a much more... real way than many superheroes.  While he's not quite the same in the show, I feel that the show does attempt to include economic inequality and social justice issues where it can (not quite as aggressively as Veronica Mars, but still admirably). 

I prefer the waxing/waning scruff to the goatee as well as the darker, more hunter-y looking costume of the show to the Robin Hood-style of the comics.  Of course, I'm somewhat biased because green is my favorite color and I always play archers in my RPGs and action games.

[Lisin]

I marked this topic as Spoilers just in case people are really afraid of learning the path the comics may take the show.

[Morrigan2575]

I read Year One and The Longbow Hunters. I am also collecting the current 52 run. I started with The Kill Machine and I have to say it's a great title, I highly recommend Jeff Lemiere's run. The New 52 Oliver is pretty close to Arrow's except he can be fun/funny.

[Danny Franks]

I've honestly read very little Green Arrow, over the years. He's a character I never warmed to, because most of the time, his appearances in JLA or Titans stories made him seem like a complete ass. And I think I've been exposed to less than complimentary views of him, through writers like Gail Simone.

And as a kid, I never saw men with beards as hero material, as odd as that may sound. I thought Oliver Queen's, in particular, looked ridiculous.

But I'd like to get my hands on Green Lantern / Green Arrow one day, and have a look at him when he was the voice of the streets and a social conscience for a more cosmically powerful character. I think that was the birth of his existence as a liberal, socially aware character. Prior to that, I believe, he was a bit of a Robin Hood influenced Batman rip off, and not a whole lot more.

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, the Van Dyke was ridiculous, I also jate his Robin Hood get up. I much prefer the Smallville, Arrow, 52 Green Arrow costume

[CabotCove]

And as a kid, I never saw men with beards as hero material, as odd as that may sound

 

LOL. its certainly odd to me alright. 

[KirkB]

The thing is, Oliver in the comics typically was an ass. Batman is what you get when a boy with limitless wealth sees his parents murdered and wants to try and make sure no one else suffers the same fate. Green Arrow is what you get when a boy with limitless wealth basically decides he wants to be a hero. His motivation on the show actually makes him a little more tolerable to me.

[Danny Franks]

LOL. its certainly odd to me alright. 

And when you factor in the fact that my dad has sported a beard all his adult life, I'm not really sure what it says about me. But anyway....

The thing is, Oliver in the comics typically was an ass. Batman is what you get when a boy with limitless wealth sees his parents murdered and wants to try and make sure no one else suffers the same fate. Green Arrow is what you get when a boy with limitless wealth basically decides he wants to be a hero. His motivation on the show actually makes him a little more tolerable to me.

 

Yeah. The key to Batman is that he has an almost pathological need to fight crime, due to the traumatic events of his childhood. It's easy to buy that he's driven beyond what many people would consider the bounds of sanity by this need, that he'll sacrifice himself to stop criminals, even in a city as hopelessly doomed as Gotham is.

Oliver Queen, as far as I know, was never given such a background in the comic books, and really spawned out of the superhero zeitgeist in the 1940s, where everyone was making up new characters, to capitalise on the success of Batman and Superman. Jack Kirby did, apparently, introduce the idea of Oliver surviving alone on a remote island, but he ended up there after falling off a cruise ship, drunk. So... not quite the same trauma.

[Morrigan2575]

They kind of retcon'd that in Year One with Oliver being betrayed by a close friend and ending up on The Island run by China White and learns to be a hero.  

They've also done some traumatic background in the New 52,

turns out Robert Queen had his son stranded on the Island and set it up for him to be tortured into becoming a fighter/killer so that they could become the Head of the Arrow Clan.

...I know there is spoiler in the title but this just happened 2 issues ago so I figured I'd be a little extra cautious. 

I don't know if it's Arrow moving towards 52 or 52 moving towards Arrow but the characters are very similar, although 52 Arrow is still a little lighter and has more of a "fuck it" attitude. Arrow's Oliver seems more the mopey, tortured/tragic brooding hero...that I generally don't enjoy.  Probably why I love Felicity so much, she adds a much needed spark/comedic tone to the Arrow Lair.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Here's a thread to discuss and list all of the various tiny Easter Eggs from DC comics, including references to other DC comics characters and locations, and DC comics writers/artists. Hopefully this will help us (ok, me) remember what has and hasn't been referenced in the show.

 

I'll start:

 

There's a major fight in, where else? The Giordiano Tunnel in "Unthinkable" - Dick Giordiano edited Green Arrow (and many other comics) for DC Comics back in the day, and had a reputation for loving superhero fights. Not spoilery, just kinda cool.

 

The plane in "Sacrifice" is owned and operated by Ferris Air -

the company that once employed Hal Jordan, one of the Green Lanterns.

 Only a little spoilery, since it only indicates that Ferris Air exists in the Arrow Universe, not that the show plans to introduce characters associated with it.  (Guggenheim said they thought it would be a fun reference that fans would love.)

 

Moira discusses going to a Ted Kord fundraiser in "The Undertaking."  Ted Kord is

The Blue Beetle

, and exists in the Arrow universe, though whether he'll show up later remains an open question.

 

 

[KirkB]

Ted Kord is one of the DC characters more likely to appear, I would think, because he doesn't really have powers and wouldn't have to actually BE in his

Blue Beetle persona

. He could just be Ted Kord, CEO of Kord Industries.

[Maverick]

 Was looking at an episode guide on Wikipedia and checked out the characters who've popped up.  So, Moira's lawyer is going to be possessed and become an evil God trying to re-write the universe? 

[quarks]

To be fair, at least half the lawyers on this show have been kidnapped or murdered, so I could see a Starling City lawyer wanting to become a god just as a security precaution.

[Password]

So I looked at a sample of some Green Arrow comics and I wondered if Marc Guggenheim's present Arrow comics are worth it? And which Flash comics should I have a look at?

[KirkB]

I can't give you specifics, I haven't read any individual comics in years, but if you have the money you might want to buy one of the graphic novels. I think you get a lot more bang for your buck that way. If you don't have, or aren't willing to spend, the money check your local library. Mine carries a number of DC and Marvel graphic novels and I've caught up on a number of different stories that way.

[Morrigan2575]

moved to the comic thread if I can find it.

ETA: If you state Spoilers in the title do you really need to use spoiler font in the thread? If someone willingly reads a thread marked "spoilers" that have to understand there maybe spoilers. ..

Edited June 13, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

I'm not buying hard copies but the graphic novels on the Google Play store for my Nexus. The prices vary but one I'm looking at in particular is about £7 which is about $12. Do you recommend any Flash comics?

[quarks]

ETA: If you state Spoilers in the title do you really need to use spoiler font in the thread? If someone willingly reads a thread marked "spoilers" that have to understand there maybe spoilers. ..

 

 

I don't know? I was trying to follow the rules in the Notes from the Mods: Please Read Before Posting Thread, which was that things specifically said in the show weren't spoilers, but what they might become were. 

Edited June 12, 2014 by quarks

[KirkB]

I don't know? I was trying to follow the rules in the Notes from the Mods: Please Read Before Posting Thread, which was that things specifically said in the show weren't spoilers, but what they might become were.

 

   And I did it because you did it, just to be safe.

[Morrigan2575]

It just seems redundant to use a spoiler bar inside a spoiler thread but, ill abide by whatever rules the mods have set.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Morrigan2575]

The arrow comics have been cancelled, I think they're only available in digital format now, can't comment on quality since I don't buy them.

GA 52 under Jeff Lemiere is worth the money it's a very good read. 52 BoP is ok nothing fantastic but not offensively bad or boring. I've heard the Harley Quinn comic is great but I'm not reading it.

On the Marvel front, I'm enjoying Uncanny X-Men and Amazing X-men, X-Factor is still finding it's groove but it Peter David so I'm willing to give him some time. Marc G is taking over X-Men in August from Brian Wood (who sucked) but I'm not willing to give him a shot at winning me over. However, I'll let you know if I hear anything good about the title.

[formerlyfreedom]

I can edit the title to have the red SPOILERS bar in it; then there is no need to spoiler tag. It does seem redundant in a thread like this one. Sound good?

[Morrigan2575]

I haven't read the comics and I don't really intend to.  Watching comic shows is my thing, not so interested in reading comics.  However, I really enjoy hearing about the comics.  I'm more and more flabbergasted to learn that BC and GA in the comics are not some OTP.  The way comic purists portray it, it's as though Dinah and Oliver have always been together and will always be together.  Now I'm discovering that they were never really together and the plan to put them together was so ill-considered that an author recused herself from it and a plan was later placed in motion to break them up.  Seriously?  How can any comic fan claim comic purism when advocating for Laurel and Oliver being together on the show?

 

I think they've been portrayed as mostly an on/off again relationship. I get the feeling that it falls into a typical comic problem where characters are killed/resurrected or relationship formed/broken up repeatedly based on the creative team.  One team gets bored with the relationship, breaks them up and then years later a new creative team comes in and decides to put them back together.

 

Personally, I think comic book canon is dependent upon what comics you've read and even then it doesn't last.   Kurt Warner, Nightcrawler in the X-Men comics, in the 90's  was Mystique and Sabertooth's son....I picked up a book in the 2000's and they changed it, he was now a half demon (son of Azazel).  In the 90's Fabian Nachez created a character called Adam X who was strongly hinted at being the missing Summer's brother (Alex and Scott's half brother).  This was never outright stated in the comics but it was implied heavily....just recently i found out that Marvel dropped that story after Nachez left and they created a new character Vulcan who turned out was the missing Summer's brother.

[KirkB]

Wait, I knew about Mystique as his mom (though I also thought it would be interesting if she was his dad and maybe Destiny was his mom) but Nightcrawler was originally her kid by Sabertooth? I know they DID have a kid together later but damn that pairing makes no sense.

[Morrigan2575]

I think this board ate my last post.

So, the scene I'm remembering had Mystique and Sabertooth meeting up with Nightcrawler. I think they're helping him or rescuing Kurt. Anyway Mystique makes a comment like after all the trouble I went to, to find you a father with fur. It might not have been a 100% Kurt Creed is your father moment but it was definitely implied.

Back to Green Arrow comics , I'm finally caught up, The Outsiders War is over and Broken has just started. The comics seem to be taking quite a few tips from the show. I've noticed they started calling Oliver Arrow now, before it used to be Green Arrow or GA for short.

They also had the revelation that back in the day Diggle used to put on the Arrow costume to cover for Oliver just like on the show. Also they seem to be taking Naomi/Oliver along a similar path to Oliver/Felicity in the show. Not exactly sure how that will play out but I kind of like it. I'm also curious to see how the Emiko thing plays out. At the end of The Outsiders War she chose to stay with Shado. However, she showed up at the end of the latest book, saves Oliver and the declared herself the new Green Arrow. I wonder if Lemiere is going to make her the new Speedy (instead of Mia Dearden)?

Also one amusing moment, Oliver showed up at the hideout but Naomi didn't know it was him and almost took him out with an Arrow...pretty funny. He yelled at her for working with Diggle and The Clock King to try and take Richard Dragon out. It was very Olicity especially when she laI'd into him for abandoning Seattle and running back to the Island with Shado.

I think this board ate my last post.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I don't know, just some thoughts. It would be interesting to know Gail Simone's thoughts on Arrow and Laurel/Sara, but when I looked at her blog, she said she'd only watched a couple of episodes.

I've read pretty much everything Gail Simone wrote in the past decade or so, and... how do I put it mildly? Oliver Queen is not exactly her favorite character. :) I figure a show focused on him, and with such a HORRIBLE version of Dinah would be painful for her to watch.

[Morrigan2575]

I can see why, pre-flashpoint Oliver is a jerk, to put it nicely. I think he actually works best with Hal Jordan. From what I've read of their team up.

Current Oliver (under Jeff Lemire) is pretty cool. I like him, he really does remind me of show Oliver

[Morrigan2575]

I'm absolutely gutted right now, DC just gave the GA title to Andrew K.  Guess I'll stop collecting with #34

[writersblock51]

Morrigan, I think it's a bad sign for the comics and the show as well.  I stopped reading GA because of him way back when - I mean, I didn't realize it was AK writing the arc that ultimately turned me off but now that I know he was at the helm...

 

AK certainly has a strong reputation.  I just happen to think he's not as good as anyone, including himself, thinks he is.  And I despised his last attempt at GA/BC.

[Lantern7]

I don't understand . . . if Jeff Lemire is supposed to be critically acclaimed, then how come he's off? Or did he quit voluntarily?

[dtissagirl]

I don't understand . . . if Jeff Lemire is supposed to be critically acclaimed, then how come he's off? Or did he quit voluntarily?

 

He tweeted that it was his choice to leave the book:

https://twitter.com/JeffLemire/status/484735064375574528

[Morrigan2575]

He left the title (which is sad) the fact that DC chose AK as his replacement is what's massively upsetting me.

Sorry, wasn't trying to imply something shady, I just don't want AK on the title.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/03/arrows-andrew-kreisberg-and-ben-sokolowski-to-take-over-dcs-green-arrow-comic

Edited July 3, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

They also chose Ben Sokolowski, who I think is one of the better Arrow writers. He wrote Streets of Fire, Three Ghosts, Keep Your Enemies Closer, Identity and The Promise this season.

 

 

The natural assumption is that DC wants to bring the comic more in line with the TV series (having already introduced the John Diggle character into the New 52 last year). And as Sokolowski told Hero Complex, that's true to an extent. "Yes, some of our favorite Arrow characters will feature prominently in the comic. Though they may not necessarily be clones of their TV personas. I think our goal with this comic is to make it an echo of the TV series. It’s a way to bridge the two universes. That being said, we’re not trying to make this 'Arrow: The Comic.' That’s what the digital tie-ins are for."

So Diggle is in but not Felicity because she's another character in the comic-verse?

[Morrigan2575]

Under Jeff Lemire that's true, not sure what that means going forward.

[Actionmage]

In the 90's Fabian Nachez

 

I believe that the correct last name is Nicieza. Fabian Nicieza. You can't help him sell good books with the wrong name. *g* ( I liked his stuff from then too.)

 

eta: I just read this and it's crazier than 'falling off a cruise ship'!

 

(from the DC Comics Data Base, italics are mine)

"In the now-destroyed dimensional reality known as the Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, Oliver Queen was born to an average family in the western United States during or soon after World War I. Living alongside Native Americans on reservation land, Queen began a life-long appreciation of the tribal lifestyle of the native Indians, even developing a proficiency with archery. Queen had spent his lifetime becoming an expert on American Indian culture and lore which resulted in Queen amassed a large collection of artifacts and relics of the Native Americans which he would lend out to various museums, which afforded him a large personal fortune.

 

It would be in the initial loss of his collection that would cause Queen to become Green Arrow, as Queen had clumsily prevented a robbery attempt of the bulk of his collection of Indian artifacts which caused a fire that burned everything.

 

Queen was inspired by one of his friends to restart again by exploring supposed Indian remains at Lost Mesa, which is supposed to be a "hidden gold mine" of artifacts. After piloting his own plane to this so-called Lost Mesa, Queen was ambushed by the criminal from the earlier Museum robbery as they were seeking to recoup their losses. Forcing Queen, alongside the earlier-trapped Roy Harper into a cave and corning them Queen and Harper both armed themselves with bow and arrow and discovered a rear exit out of the cave. Upon the way out they stumble on a hidden gold mine recapturing Queen's fortune and the basis for their later costumed careers. It was during this fight with the Indian artifact stealing criminals, Harper quickly weaves back and forth from the cave causing one of the criminals to comment "Boy, that kid is really speedy!" and later another one of the gang warns off his cohorts with the statement "Watch out for the big guy! He shoots a mean green arrow!" These names would obviously be adapted by Queen and Harper in their costumed identities."

 

And that, kids, is how the original GA came to be. *g*     

 

For those who know about Silver Age Oliver's history, do you think that having Moira run for Mayor is a nod to Oliver running and winning his mayorship? Or could we get Ollie running himself?

Edited July 3, 2014 by Actionmage

[Orion]

Spoilers for the Arrow comic ahead.

 

In the Trust but Verify thread I brought up issue 24 of the Arrow comic. It's really not a great issue for Felicity even though it is centered around her (although it's not nearly as bad as when they flashback to why Laurel and Tommy got together, way to poison that relationship Arrow). A guy flirts with Felicity and asks her out. She goes out with him and it turns out he was only flirting with her to gain access to QC computer files. Felicity ends up being kidnapped and thrown off a building, Oliver rescues her and she admits that the bad guy made her feel important and that's why she was deceived by him. The last panel does add a nice moment to their relationship so I thought I would post it here.

 

[Password]

Hahahahaha how did Oliver get in the house? What a sweet thing of him to do. It's not done nearly enough on the show...by him.

[writersblock51]

Felicity will be making her way into Green Arrow's new 52 comics:

 

http://m.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/producers-cw-show-arrow-tapped-write-comic-book-adventures-super-hero-article-1.1854524#bmb=1

 

I confess I'm very surprised. I didn't think it would happen if AK was also involved with the comics.  Though I wonder if he had any say into this or not; I suspect the call to have her come into the comics may be from higher up?

 

But isn't there already a character in the current GA comic universe who is very similar to Felicity?

[BkWurm1]

He adds that several fan favorite characters from “Arrow” will make their way into the pages of “Green Arrow” -- including Felicity Smoak, the titular hero’s computer hacking helper.

Actress Emily Bett Rickards “was over the moon” when she found out that she was going to be a comic book character.

 

I wonder to what extent her character will be used, because yeah, I he has a uber tech helper already named Naomi.  

[Morrigan2575]

With AK taking over Naomi and Fyffe could exit stage left. Let's remember when Jeff Lemire took over he killed Jax and brought in Fyffe, it wouldn't be uncommon for a new creative team tp have a shakeup.

From what I've read the whole point of this was to try and get crossover appeal. Bring Arrow fans to the comics to increase, bringing Felicity in is a no brainer. My bigger concern is what happens with Canon Felicity and maybe even Olicity?

BTW - I've been reading fan comments on CBR, man no one is happy with AK taking over, they say he ruined GA and BC when he wrote the title n 2007-2010. Also there may have been something hinky going on Lemire may have been forced out of the title.

[BkWurm1]

Well that's a great way to start things up. Not like this could backfire and fans decide to reject anything new (Felicity) he might bring to the title out of protest. Sigh.

[dtissagirl]

I wouldn't be surprised if Lemire was asked to step out so AK and BS could take over. Of course he could have stepped out on his own, but his interviews from the beginning of the year suggested he had a long term plan for the book.  And now AK/BS take over as early as October -- right when the show comes back for S3. And they've cast Peter Stomare as the Count Vertigo that Lemire is using in the comics. This is all a little too coincidental for me. It looks like DC is banking on trying to bring Arrow viewers to the comics. And for that, oh yeah, they need to bring Felicity over to the book. I worry for Naomi, really.

[writersblock51]

Sounds like DC is pulling a lot of strings.  I'm sorry to hear about Jeff Lemire being out - I don't read the comics but my son does, and he's enjoyed them a lot. 

 

And the big question will be - how much will the comics and show intertwine & differ? 

 

If nothing else, the whole argument that Felicity isn't in the GA comics looks to becoming a moot point.  To what end, I have no idea.  And I wonder how the new team will handle Black Canary and all persons Lance.  Will we also see Sara as she is on the show?  What happens to Laurel?

 

I didn't know the new Vertigo character on the show matches the most recent comic one.  Interesting. 

Edited July 5, 2014 by writersblock51

[Morrigan2575]

And I wonder how the new team will handle Black Canary and all persons Lance. Will we also see Sara as she is on the show? What happens to Laurel?

Not sure what you mean about Laurel...Dinah Laurel doesn't exist in DC Comics, just Dinah Drake.

Now given the backstory for Dinah Drake (tween runaway, foster homes, raised by sensei) they could very easily introduce a Sarah Drake, as Dinah's little sister but that seems like more of a BoP storyline then Green Arrow.

[writersblock51]

Morrigan, that's pretty much what I mean - that there isn't a "Laurel" in the comics that is remotely close to being the one on the show.  So will a variation of Dinah in the comics become more like TV Laurel?

[JayKay]

I don't like my food touching at dinner and I don't want my tv in my comics. I know there's been a precedent for it but I think this can only mean bad things for the Nu52. Too much meddling, and as mentioned, it could stir some resentment toward Felicity. Overexposure is also a danger, but as Batman Forever proves, sometimes DC doesn't know when to quit while it's ahead.

[Morrigan2575]

Morrigan, that's pretty much what I mean - that there isn't a "Laurel" in the comics that is remotely close to being the one on the show.  So will a variation of Dinah in the comics become more like TV Laurel?

I guess I'm still lost, Dinah isn't in the GA title and DC hasn't been interested in having GA/BC meet. Are you saying you're worried AK will bring Dinah Drake into the GA title? I don't see the BoP title turning Dinah into Laurel, she's too much of a Kickass character

[dtissagirl]

I guess I'm still lost, Dinah isn't in the GA title and DC hasn't been interested in having GA/BC meet. Are you saying you're worried AK will bring Dinah Drake into the GA title? I don't see the BoP title turning Dinah into Laurel, she's too much of a Kickass character

I wouldn't be worried if BoP hadn't been canceled, but it has -- the last issue comes out next month. It might be the window of opportunity AK needs to screw up Black Canary one more time. :/

[Morrigan2575]

Oh it got cancelled? I knew sales were low but it seemed to be chugging through, I know it was on my order sheet for June.

Of course it would still be weird right? It's Dinah Drake not Lance, so they'd have Oliver doing her mother? It doesn't matter which Dinah he's with? Dinah is still married to Kurt and has that thing with Condor

I guess it depends on what DC will allow and why DC wants GA to tie in withArrow. If DC thinks Laurel is the big sell for Arrow I feel bad for them.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Morrigan2575