S07.E20: Reunion (Part I)

[LotusFlower]

I don't think this is a fair assessment. Maybe for "a lot of people", but not all. Carole is my favorite HW, and I posted in the first looks about how obnoxious I thought it was for her to yell, "YOU HOOKED UP WITH THE HOUSEBOY!" I'm just over these woman bringing out each other's sexual dalliances as a retort in an argument. As I said in the first looks- I don't like any woman using another woman's sexual experiences to insult her or to shame/degrade her or to be trotted out as fodder in an argument.

I don't think it's fair to isolate this quote and pull it out of context. Carole only "outed" LuAnn's hookup with the young house manager because LuAnn tsk tsked her over dating a younger man. The Countess is a friggin' hypocrite, and one needs examples to point this out! Would the young pirate in St. Bart's been a better choice? Jaque?

[Rahul]

As for Luann, that dress with the shoulder straps made her look like a foil-wrapped linebacker. That she was hunched over and ready to lunge at Carol did not help

 

This line was so good I had to see it in print again.

 

The only reason Luann's concern for her niece rings true to me is that Adam was at Luann's in the first place.  Why would Luann specifically hire Adam if Nicole didn't ask her to do it?  If Nicole really was done with Adam then I doubt Luann would have had him cook for that dinner.

 

LuAnn and her family are messy. Don't they know not to shit fuck where they eat?

 

Carole got all bent out of shape when one of her friends was going to give Luann a dress. She thought that was way out of line. You don't use other peoples friends to get free stuff!

 

But she can scoop up Luann's nieces boyfriend while his penis is still warm from banging her and that is a-ok?

 

I don't know about you, but my penis is always warm.

 

IMO, Jac broke up with LuAnn because she cheated on him and not just on St Barth's trip with the pirate.

 

LuAnn just can't help herself. It must be the hypergonadism.

 

I don't know about you lot, but I think one of three parts is enough time to devote to the LuAnn/Carole beef. Apparently Andy and his cohorts and Bravo don't think so because the guide description for Reunion Part 2 is as follows:

 

 

Luann and Carole continue to hash over their unresolved issues; Dorinda's unpredictable temper and her touchy-feely boyfriend become topics of discussion; then the women talk about men, dating and life as cougars.

 

I should be getting paid to watch this mess.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Rahul

[phoenix780]

The gag order is a myth. Or a made-up tabloid thing.

I didn't even realize there was an idea about a legit gag order.  I always interpreted Bethenny's comments more as "I can't talk about this, because if I say anything this vindictive asshole will pull me into court."  I also figure she's not the kind who can control her mouth so she's taught herself to say nothing, lest she start and be unable to stop.

[ryebread]

Frankel, who hasn't been able to discuss the divorce in detail due to legal threats from her estranged husband, received some support from her fellow castmates on Tuesday. "I've witnessed what Bethenny goes through in terms of this custody, child care thing," Carole Radziwill noted. "And if it was me, I would not be able to handle it as well as you handle it. I understand what some of the crying is."

 

Radziwill gave one heartbreaking example. "She calls her daughter twice a day, it's court appointed, and lots of times, her ex-husband won't answer the phone," the author revealed. "I've seen her call six, seven, eight, nine times, and she wants to talk to her daughter. She wants to say hi. She's 4. There's so many head games being played."

What a suck up. Annnnnnd P.S. WriterGirl, it should be "There ARE so many head games being played."  She would know a head game.

 

I'm counting on Bethenny to not be stupid and to call this brown-noser out next season.  I don't see how she can't.  #obviousbuttkisser

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bethenny-frankel-opens-up-about-excruciating-jason-hoppy-divorce-2015198
 

[anonymiss]

Actually, what she said was, I didn't know that night that Adam had dated Nicole.

I forgot she said that. It doesn't change anything, though, because she unapologetically proceeded once she found out about the preexisting dynamics while insisting Lu has no reason to be upset about it. Worse, though, she's attacking Lu's sex life in her defence rather than just being sensitive to how this could be hurtful. Generally, I prefer Carole to Lu, but in this instance I see why Lu is upset and it's made worse by how Carole insists she did nothing to warrant this reaction and is trying to deflect by slinging mud about Lu's sex life, calling her a hypocrite, etc.

 

I think Lu is a snake, but not wrong or a hypocrite in this situation.

Edited August 20, 2015 by anonymiss

[LotusFlower]

I didn't even realize there was an idea about a legit gag order.  I always interpreted Bethenny's comments more as "I can't talk about this, because if I say anything this vindictive asshole will pull me into court."  I also figure she's not the kind who can control her mouth so she's taught herself to say nothing, lest she start and be unable to stop.

Whenever Bethenny gave an interview, they were always followed by stupid tabloid reports that "Furious Jason to seek gag order after Bethenny said such-and-such," or rushing into court b/c Bethenny violated an order, stuff like that. So a lot of people believe there's one.

[Trooper York]

Who in their right mind would ever take Bethenny's calls?

Especially when she is intruding and probably trying to sabotage the father daughter time that is extremely limited. Why give the phone to the kid so that lunatic can guilt trip her because she is having a freaking hot dog.

I bet in the not to distant future the kid is going to be the one to let the phone ring and ring and ring.

[ryebread]

I didn't even realize there was an idea about a legit gag order.  I always interpreted Bethenny's comments more as "I can't talk about this, because if I say anything this vindictive asshole will pull me into court."  I also figure she's not the kind who can control her mouth so she's taught herself to say nothing, lest she start and be unable to stop.

 

I think there is one.  Andy has said on almost every WWHL something to the effect of "I know you can't talk about it but...."  and he'll ask about the divorce and she'll say something non-committal. Also, she was verbal about the split but about 2-3 weeks into her talk show, she suddenly went radio silent on anything about her divorce.  Only she'd find ways to work digs in about men who don't contribute, small penis sizes, etc.  You just knew she was talking/not talking about Jason. Heh.

[shoegal]

I forgot she said that. It doesn't change anything, though, because she unapologetically proceeded once she found out about the preexisting dynamics while insisting Lu has no reason to be upset about it.

The preexisting dynamic that she found out about was that Adam and Nicole broke up over a year ago. Is Adam forever off limits because a year ago he dated the niece of her friend?

[Trooper York]

Did anybody else catch Carole's remark that none the other housewives did such a good job raising their kids? Ramona's eyes started to revolve.

[ryebread]

Who in their right mind would ever take Bethenny's calls?

 

And who in their right mind, after being involved with Bethenny "The Mouth" Frankel WOULDN'T pursue a gag order.  And vice versa.  If Jason is a cad, why would she want him to be able to run willy-nilly to the press about any real or fabricated items?  A gag order makes sense to me.

 

Obviously, some type of gag order is in place regarding the financials, pre-nup, etc. because we've seen nothing. 

 

So why is it such a stretch that they didn't apply for gag orders to stop them from dragging each other through the mud?  Serious question.  I know nothing about divorce law. 

[AnnA]

And did I blink and miss it - did they mention Luann's comment to Carole about not having kids?  Did they really just blow past that as though it were nothing?  Or did I see that in a promo for next week?

 

Andy brought it up (it was a viewer question), and LuAnn pussyfooted around it. She didn't apologize for it, either.

 

Did Andy really say it was a viewer's question?  I don't remember but your answer raises another question.  How did a viewer know to ask that question since the Reunion was filmed before Ramona's New Beginnings party episode aired?

Edited August 20, 2015 by AnnA

[LotusFlower]

That was after she had initiated the "You're so hot" introduction, leaving no question of her intentions.

So what? Is flirting a sin? Is it flirting with the help what you find so offensive?

I think there is one.  Andy has said on almost every WWHL something to the effect of "I know you can't talk about it but...."  and he'll ask about the divorce and she'll say something non-committal. Also, she was verbal about the split but about 2-3 weeks into her talk show, she suddenly went radio silent on anything about her divorce.  Only she'd find ways to work digs in about men who don't contribute, small penis sizes, etc.  You just knew she was talking/not talking about Jason. Heh.

If there was in fact a gag order, then Bethenny violated it repeatedly over the course of the season, certainly in the first few episodes when she talked about her divorce hardships. And then with everything she said last night. Jason, of course, would have then hauled her ass into court for contempt in a NY minute. But that didn't happen. Ergo - no gag order.

[ryebread]

Ergo - no gag order.

 

Seems silly not to have one.  Well, then - kudos to Jason for not running his mouth about Bethenny's baggage and business dealings when he has the ability to do so.  Talk about self control.

[Rahul]

Did Andy really say it was a viewer's question?  I don't remember but your answer raises another question.  How did a viewer know to ask that question since the Reunion was filmed before Ramona's New Beginnings party episode aired?

Good catch. Every time the viewer name and location or Twitter handle is not mentioned, it can be assumed the question is fed by production.

[AnnA]

Good catch. Every time the viewer name and location or Twitter handle is not mentioned, it can be assumed the question is fed by production.

 

Thank you.   That's what I thought would happen when people were wondering if and how anything from the remaining episodes would be addressed at the reunion.

 

ETA:  I should check my DVR and see what Andy said about that question.

Edited August 20, 2015 by AnnA

[Trooper York]

Maybe it was the psychic from the Real Housewives of Orange Country.

[LotusFlower]

Seems silly not to have one.  Well, then - kudos to Jason for not running his mouth about Bethenny's baggage and business dealings when he has the ability to do so.  Talk about self control.

Both of them have their fate in the judge's hands, so they don't want to say or do anything that will piss the judge off, or make them look bad, or as pheonix said, do something that will incite the other to go to court to complain about the other for any sort of reason. That's why lawyers always tell their clients not to talk about the case to anyone, ever, and it's likely what Andy meant when he told Bethenny he understands she can't talk about it. Heck, he even said the same thing to Teresa and Joe, or they said it to him, and there was no gag order on that case.

[BeachyMum]

I just finished watching the reunion and a total disappointment.  Why are all the women scared of Beth? Everyone with the exception of Kristen. They look pathetic..especially Ramona,Sonja and Dorinda.  They keep laughing at her digs, but won't they be surprised when Beth doesn't have their backs.  Why would Carole talk about Beth's ex husband and try and explain her "situation"? I thought Beth doesn't like ANYONE talking about her and her situation...it was obviously rehearsed and planned out. Carole lost a lot of credibility by being Beth's puppet. IMO

 

   They did not even show half of Beth's diva behavior on her "bitchy" montage.  She refused to film with Kristen the whole season.  Her excuse was I didn't know her well enough.  That's RUDE and bitchy! She is a mean girl.. IMO.

 

   Sonja is delusional and I cannot get over how Lu has so many one night stands! That's so vile! IMO

[Mondrianyone]

Luann must have that reunion dress in many colors.

On her twitter pic's there is one of her wearing it with Ramona, it looks like an event for Ramona's book. It looks coral, someone posted a pic of Lu wearing it in a talking head, it was purplish. Then of course that awful green. The worst part is the arm bands.

 

Maybe she was just copying Carole.

[sistermagpie]

Did anybody else catch Carole's remark that none the other housewives did such a good job raising their kids? Ramona's eyes started to revolve.

 

 

You mean the Brady Bunch comment? I thought she was just talking about none of them having a lot of kids--I didn't understand why that would be significant the first time she said it either, but I think that's what she meant by it. She said it once on the show and said some of them have only one more kid than she does--iow, one child.

 

She really didn't seem to find the comment hurtful the way viewers did--and had no trouble letting Luanne said that she was just saying "Oh, you don't have kids so you can date who you want." (Followed by an evil cackle.)

Edited August 20, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Trooper York]

Right. The Brady Bunch. Didn't you think that was directed at Luann to imply that her kids were messed up? That's the kind of stealth bitchiness that is right in Carole's wheelhouse.

The problem is that she directed it to all of them and I think Ramona for one was taken aback.

[AnnA]

Right. The Brady Bunch. Didn't you think that was directed at Luann to imply that her kids were messed up? That's the kind of stealth bitchiness that is right in Carole's wheelhouse.

The problem is that she directed it to all of them and I think Ramona for one was taken aback.

I thought it was directed at LuAnn too and I did see Ramona's reaction. I'm still surprised at how quiet Ramona was last night. She must have been heavily medicated to fall asleep. She didn't react (or we didn't see her reaction) to Sonja's statement about some of the other HW's having an alcohol problem. I think that remark was directed at Ramona and Dorinda.

[motorcitymom65]

Thank you.   That's what I thought would happen when people were wondering if and how anything from the remaining episodes would be addressed at the reunion.

 

ETA:  I should check my DVR and see what Andy said about that question.

Andy just asked it, it wasn't asked from a viewer. 

[AnnA]

Andy just asked it, it wasn't asked from a viewer.

Thanks. I'm glad to know that he didn't fake a viewer question. I watched it again earlier so I'm also glad that I don't have to FF through it tonight.

[njbchlover]

So let's review what we learned so far.

What's a John-John.

To Carole it's someone only she can make money off of by exploiting his celebrity.

To Sonja it is the fond memories of a party friend from the1980's.

To Luann it is the place you go to bang young guys.

That is about the gist of it.

 

I think you just summed up Part One of the Reunion in one question and three answers.   :-)

[maggiemae]

I think Bethanny would drag Jason into court if he violated the 2 calls a day order.

I think Bethanny would drag Jason into court if he violated the 2 calls a day order.

Edited August 20, 2015 by maggiemae

[nowcheckthat]

Carole has made that comment before, I think on WWHL and she said most of them have one more child than she does so it was about the number of kids. Why would anyone think she's implying they are bad parents? That wouldn't even make sense.

[kitten59]

I thought Kristen got an implant upgrade!? Her surgeon really should have given her a lift along with the new set. They look like a pair of sandbags.

[FaithsMum]

This whole Adam/Carole/LuAnn/Nicole shit is almost as tiresome as book-gate.

I've followed Nicole on Instagram for a couple of years (judge me all you want!) and she's as annoying as Adam with all this hipster shit. Nicole is not unattractive by any means but they both look like they need a good wash and an introduction to a hairbrush.

[zoeysmom]

Andy brought it up (it was a viewer question), and LuAnn pussyfooted around it. She didn't apologize for it, either.

Such a big deal over a statement of fact.  Carole is childless by choice.  Carole can't pretend to be offended over it.    It is far less an insulting comment than Carole claiming she is only one child shy of being a parent.  Obviously she does not have the ability to feel or see things as a parent if she makes idiotic statements such as that-and for what purpose? Any parent can tell you the day you become a parent your life changes dramatically be it by childbirth, adoption or surrogacy.  I really don't see the need for an apology.  Carole apparently doesn't care if she hurts Luann's children because when asked not to speak publicly and disparagingly about Luann, Carole's response was to say LuAnn should not bang random guys on vacation.    Does she feel better getting that sentiment out to the de Lesseps kids?  That is on Carole and whoever else feels the need to respond that way.  Carole is heartless and a huge phony.

 

To me Carole brought her relationship with Adam into the forefront and did it with a build up-what will Luann say, do or feel?  So once Luann reacted Carole started in on the attack Luann stuff.  Carole claims to want to be a friend of Luann but not the Countess. Carole screwed the friendship when she kept up with the Luann is a slut routine.  Friends don't tell stories out of school.  Period. Luann expressed an opinion about Carole's relationship.  Carole is the one who needs to be right about the relationship-not Luann.  Luann expressed great umbrage at having Carole and Heather bust in her room and begin the interrogation.  Carole is mad, so mad she threw someone she called a friend under the bus and now wonders why Luann does not consider her a friend?  Luann forgave her once for her blow by blow account (of stuff she didn't even see) in St. Barth's.  Now she did again-so she never really was a friend or a parent.

[zoeysmom]

 

But Carole went after neither her friend's ex nor her family member's ex. Nicole is not Carole's friend; she's not Carole's family.

 

 

If LuAnn really were only concerned for her niece, she would have kept that tack instead of jumping all over the place for why she's been going in on Carole these past months. In any case, like I said before it very well could have been that Adam and Nicole were still hooking up from time to time even after they had officially called it quits, or they could be the kind of exes who've remained friends (without benefits). That wouldn't negate the reason(s) for why Adam was at LuAnn's house that day.

 

Somewhat spoken for according to LuAnn, who, at the time of filming when Carole pulled her aside to tell her about Adam, agreed that Nicole and Adam had been done with each other for awhile.

In no way did Luann agree that it was an okay thing in her eyes.  She mentioned her niece several times and she even said . . . "I didn't know you were fucking."  Luann agreed it had been awhile and then continued with why it is not okay.

Edited August 20, 2015 by zoeysmom

[motorcitymom65]

Such a big deal over a statement of fact.  Carole is childless by choice.  Carole can't pretend to be offended over it.    It is far less an insulting comment than Carole claiming she is only one child shy of being a parent.  Obviously she does not have the ability to feel or see things as a parent if she makes idiotic statements such as that-and for what purpose? Any parent can tell you the day you become a parent your life changes dramatically be it by childbirth, adoption or surrogacy.  I really don't see the need for an apology.  Carole apparently doesn't care if she hurts Luann's children because when asked not to speak publicly and disparagingly about Luann, Carole's response was to say LuAnn should not bang random guys on vacation.    Does she feel better getting that sentiment out to the de Lesseps kids?  That is on Carole and whoever else feels the need to respond that way.  Carole is heartless and a huge phony.

 

To me Carole brought her relationship with Adam into the forefront and did it with a build up-what will Luann say, do or feel?  So once Luann reacted Carole started in on the attack Luann stuff.  Carole claims to want to be a friend of Luann but not the Countess. Carole screwed the friendship when she kept up with the Luann is a slut routine.  Friends don't tell stories out of school.  Period. Luann expressed an opinion about Carole's relationship.  Carole is the one who needs to be right about the relationship-not Luann.  Luann expressed great umbrage at having Carole and Heather bust in her room and begin the interrogation.  Carole is mad, so mad she threw someone she called a friend under the bus and now wonders why Luann does not consider her a friend?  Luann forgave her once for her blow by blow account (of stuff she didn't even see) in St. Barth's.  Now she did again-so she never really was a friend or a parent.

According to Lu, the friendship ended a long time ago. Long before Carole ever uttered a word about Lu's sex life. I know that the fact that Carole is discussing this is troublesome to many people, but the fact is, we are discussing something that played zero part in their friendship ending or was part of their issue at that time. The only issue on the table right now, and the one that Lu claimed loudly and proudly ended it all for them, was that Carole picked up the help in her kitchen, and didn't care if doing so upset her niece. Clearly the T&C thing will come up later, but she was pretty clear when Andy tried to assert that they had been friends through the season that she didn't consider Carole to be a friend because of the Adam deal. I guess she is going to try and act all offended that her "friend" busted into her room, but it will be fun to watch since she has already said she didn't consider Carole a friend at that point. The problem for Lu is that she didn't have any real reason to be mad at Carole, started a bunch of shit on Twitter, and now she is having to find a way to bring it all together and it's just not happening for her. 

[motorcitymom65]

In no way did Luann agree that it was an okay thing in her eyes.  She mentioned her niece several times and she even said . . . "I didn't know you were fucking."  Luann agreed it had been awhile and then continued with why it is not okay.

But she ended it all by saying they would work it all out because the friendship was more important. She said that three times. I wish Andy would have shown those clips when Lu was asserting they weren't friends during filming.

[zoeysmom]

According to Lu, the friendship ended a long time ago. Long before Carole ever uttered a word about Lu's sex life. I know that the fact that Carole is discussing this is troublesome to many people, but the fact is, we are discussing something that played zero part in their friendship ending or was part of their issue at that time. The only issue on the table right now, and the one that Lu claimed loudly and proudly ended it all for them, was that Carole picked up the help in her kitchen, and didn't care if doing so upset her niece. Clearly the T&C thing will come up later, but she was pretty clear when Andy tried to assert that they had been friends through the season that she didn't consider Carole to be a friend because of the Adam deal. I guess she is going to try and act all offended that her "friend" busted into her room, but it will be fun to watch since she has already said she didn't consider Carole a friend at that point. The problem for Lu is that she didn't have any real reason to be mad at Carole, started a bunch of shit on Twitter, and now she is having to find a way to bring it all together and it's just not happening for her. 

Well obviously she did have a reason to be mad at Carole at the time of the Twitter war as it happened well after the season wrapped.  All the events had occurred and Carole and she had parted ways as friends.  Even Carole said at the Reunion that in London she was concerned about Luann and the friendship and continued to badmouth the Countess.

 

This may have not have occurred to Carole but you can't say, "I like Luann but not the Countess."  It is not as if they are separate people.  I think what bothers me about Carole if she disagrees with someone's opinion they are not just wrong they are a bad person and a person not worthy of being Carole's friend.  Then Carole can't comprehend how the message she sends of disapproval or contempt is received as an insult and the person considers Carole not a friend.  Whether or not Carole agrees with the barging into Luann's room-it is certainly Luann's perception and mine as well.  That wasn't a friendly-get up we need to get going moment.

But she ended it all by saying they would work it all out because the friendship was more important. She said that three times. I wish Andy would have shown those clips when Lu was asserting they weren't friends during filming.

Luann never said the word friendship.  So that is a bogus claim.  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season/episode-705/videos?clip=2863949  She said it was uncomfortable.

According to Lu, the friendship ended a long time ago. Long before Carole ever uttered a word about Lu's sex life. I know that the fact that Carole is discussing this is troublesome to many people, but the fact is, we are discussing something that played zero part in their friendship ending or was part of their issue at that time. The only issue on the table right now, and the one that Lu claimed loudly and proudly ended it all for them, was that Carole picked up the help in her kitchen, and didn't care if doing so upset her niece. Clearly the T&C thing will come up later, but she was pretty clear when Andy tried to assert that they had been friends through the season that she didn't consider Carole to be a friend because of the Adam deal. I guess she is going to try and act all offended that her "friend" busted into her room, but it will be fun to watch since she has already said she didn't consider Carole a friend at that point. The problem for Lu is that she didn't have any real reason to be mad at Carole, started a bunch of shit on Twitter, and now she is having to find a way to bring it all together and it's just not happening for her. 

I am sorry but Luann expressed it was cause for concern to Carole the dating Adam thing.   Carole decided to blow Luann off.  The fact they continued to film together means nothing.    Luann who called Sonja an enemy and Carole as well filmed with her this season after writing her off last season.  So the friend thing is overblown.  BTW-WTF does Andy know?

[motorcitymom65]

At the end of the day, I wonder if Lu wishes she had played this differently. If she was truly upset about the niece deal (and I don't believe she was), if she had let that really play out and become a "thing" at the time. While I find the story less than interesting, it could have been. If she had really been upset about it and let the others know, issued an ultimatum to Carole, or pulled back from her, it would have been an interesting dynamic. How would Heather have reacted? She cared a great deal about Lu. If she was hurt and upset, what would Heather have said? What about Ramona and Lu? What side would they have been on? What about Beth? Now she is trying to rewrite history and it doesn't add up, but it had the ability to be compelling at the time.

[imjagain]

It pissed me off that Beth was allowed to literally shrug off her bad behavior from the first half of the season. Behavior that was so bad they had to re-edit the later episodes and shoot new THs.

It gave me a bit of PTSD because I had a colleague who treated me like shit (verbal insults, bizarre email attacks), and when we finally went to talk about it, he said, "Never mind all that stuff - I can be bipolar sometimes!" So in a split second, it all got blown off with zero accountability. It was maddening. Having said that, I think Beth's PR team coached her very well on how to dismiss her assholery when it came up.

Did Ramona get more than one sentence in?

Sonja is hilarious when she's sober. "Raise your hand if you slept with* Alistair" was the line of the night.

*or "did Alistair?"

I agree. Beth's behavior deserved to be scrutinized a bit more than a shrug off. I didn't expect it to be, but it should have been. After all it was mostly Heather that she was an asshole to all season, was Heather even asked about how felt about Beth's attitude towards her?

As much as I can't stand Sonja, she has her moments. Sober Sonja can be funny. When Carole said something to Lu about having sex in the bathroom, Sonja says something like, so, stick that in your pipe, lol.

I forgot about Beth rolling her eyes at Andy about Heather cutting her off or whatever, these women were all getting cues from Beth all season imo about how just awful Beth thought Heather was. She might not have intended to influence them, but she did. In the clip coming up you see Dorinda practically bow to Beth when Beth speaks.

Edited August 20, 2015 by imjagain

[motorcitymom65]

Well obviously she did have a reason to be mad at Carole at the time of the Twitter war as it happened well after the season wrapped.  All the events had occurred and Carole and she had parted ways as friends.  Even Carole said at the Reunion that in London she was concerned about Luann and the friendship and continued to badmouth the Countess.

 

This may have not have occurred to Carole but you can't say, "I like Luann but not the Countess."  It is not as if they are separate people.  I think what bothers me about Carole if she disagrees with someone's opinion they are not just wrong they are a bad person and a person not worthy of being Carole's friend.  Then Carole can't comprehend how the message she sends of disapproval or contempt is received as an insult and the person considers Carole not a friend.  Whether or not Carole agrees with the barging into Luann's room-it is certainly Luann's perception and mine as well.  That wasn't a friendly-get up we need to get going moment.

Luann never said the word friendship.  So that is a bogus claim.  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season/episode-705/videos?clip=2863949  She said it was uncomfortable.

I am sorry but Luann expressed it was cause for concern to Carole the dating Adam thing.   Carole decided to blow Luann off.  The fact they continued to film together means nothing.    Luann who called Sonja an enemy and Carole as well filmed with her this season after writing her off last season.  So the friend thing is overblown.  BTW-WTF does Andy know?

But was it friendship ending? Didn't she say "we'll figure it out". What about after the boxing deal when she took her hand and said ot would be OK". She never indicated the friendship was over, so saying it now doesn't make it true. ZM, you are a great student of this show, maybe better than anyone. You know how LU tries to create a narrative for herself. Much of my knowledge of the way Lu did this in the past (pretending she still had a marriage with the Count when they had basically been separated for years) came from learnings from things you posted in the past. This is kind of what she does and what she has been called out for by others in the past. That is the thing about all of this. She has been on the show for 7 years and has a record of past behavior that she cannot run away from.

[zoeysmom]

I agree. Beth's behavior deserved to be scrutinized a bit more than a shrug off. I didn't expect to be, but it should have been. After it was mostly Heather that she was an asshole to all season, was Heather even asked about how felt about Beth's attitude towards her?

As much as I can't stand Sonja, she has her moments. Sober Sonja can be funny. When Carole said something to Lu about having sex in the bathroom, Sonja says something like, so, stick that in your pipe, lol.

That is aggravating because Bethenny just claims to own it.  Heather just kept saying she looked bad at the dinner scene and that she should not have said anything about Kristen not be invited.  So now all Heather and Bethenny will do is talk while the person asked the question tries to give an answer.

 

 

But was it friendship ending? Didn't she say "we'll figure it out". What about after the boxing deal when she took her hand and said ot would be OK". She never indicated the friendship was over, so saying it now doesn't make it true. ZM, you are a great student of this show, maybe better than anyone. You know how LU tries to create a narrative for herself. Much of my knowledge of the way Lu did this in the past (pretending she still had a marriage with the Count when they had basically been separated for years) came from learnings from things you posted in the past. This is kind of what she does and what she has been called out for by others in the past. That is the thing about all of this. She has been on the show for 7 years and has a record of past behavior that she cannot run away from.

Thank you, I think.  To me last year when Luann was demoted for refusing to have a blow up with Jacques, or disclosing the change in the relationship sooner.  I saw the show could not exist without her in its current form.  She was the one who saved it from the ever so boring Bookgate and she truly ran the Reunion last year.  She did so by having many events-which is really not the position of a "friend" of the RH.  She concluded the season with a "you are not my friend Sonja Morgan" arc.  I thought it was ridiculous over a facialist comment but she and Carole sure ran with it. 

 

What I said in the past about the genesis of the "open marriage" comment was an item had been printed about Luann "dirty dancing" at a wedding and claims were made she grabbed a guy's crotch.  Ramona turned that into an open marriage. Luann and Jill also were guilty of revealing rumors about Ramona's marriage and Mario's philandering.  Bethenny also claimed that Luann had confided in others that she and the Count were separated but did not want it aired and continued as if the marriage was intact.  Both the Luann and Ramona have said the same thing that essentially their marriage was in limbo and they did not want to talk about the separation until it was done deal either way.  Luann got her notice by e-mail, Ramona got hers courtesy of the  New York Post.  I will say during Ramona's marriage Mario was touring senior tennis pro and I often wondered what he was up to while on tour-just as Ramona questioned the Count being out of the country on business.  Both men had viable excuses for being away.

 

I am sorry but you don't walk up to someone and say-as of today our friendship is over and we will be filming together for the next two months.  Luann can stretch the facts to suit her but the bottom line is Carole chose to pursue a relationship with Adam knowing in all likelihood that it put Luann in an uncomfortable position.  Once Carole decided to pursue the relationship it was essentially  a strain on the friendship. Carole telling Luann she is wrong to feel that way does nothing to restore or repair the friendship. Luann singing songs about Girl Code is no better.  To me Carole and Heather have developed a real friendship-the friendship Carole and Heather ultimately pursued with Luann was more of a business opportunity.  Carole and Heather used Luann as their storyline the first season and I don't really see a difference this year. 

 

At least this year Luann was honest about her past relationship with Bethenny.  The same with the end of last year Luann was honest where she stood with everyone and she was not in a good place with Ramona or Sonja.  Ramona was consumed with Mario problems and Sonja stopped caring about this clique a long time ago. 

 

****Just a note on the Count and Countess they lived abroad for the first several years of their marriage and eventually bought the Hamptons house when the kids started school.  Over the years Luann went back to work to NYC doing local television and the kids were going to school in NYC so they had a rented townhouse and a live in nanny.  So the Count was part of their lives but to this day he does do business internationally and is not based out of NY.

[Juliegirlj]

I think Luann had Adam in her house during filming as a prop. She thought having a young ,edgy, attractive chef would make her look cool, and people would wonder if they were getting it on. Then Carole stole her prop/thunder, and Luann was on the outside of the situation. She felt humiliated and dissed, especially since Adam made no advances towards her.

[Beden]

 

I just finished watching the reunion and a total disappointment.  Why are all the women scared of Beth?

Because Beth and Andy are besties and so Beth has serious influence on the lady's future employment, which makes them tippy-toe around her. JMO, of course.

[shoegal]

Such a big deal over a statement of fact.  Carole is childless by choice.  Carole can't pretend to be offended over it.    It is far less an insulting comment than Carole claiming she is only one child shy of being a parent.

Is it not also a statement of fact that half of the women have just one more child than Carole? How is that insulting?

[WireWrap]

That is aggravating because Bethenny just claims to own it.  Heather just kept saying she looked bad at the dinner scene and that she should not have said anything about Kristen not be invited.  So now all Heather and Bethenny will do is talk while the person asked the question tries to give an answer.

 

  To me Carole and Heather have developed a real friendship-the friendship Carole and Heather ultimately pursued with Luann was more of a business opportunity.  Carole and Heather used Luann as their storyline the first season and I don't really see a difference this year. 

 

At least this year Luann was honest about her past relationship with Bethenny.  The same with the end of last year Luann was honest where she stood with everyone and she was not in a good place with Ramona or Sonja.  Ramona was consumed with Mario problems and Sonja stopped caring about this clique a long time ago. 

 

Heather and LuAnn were fine Heather's first season on the show, it was Carole and Carole alone that had an issue with LuAnn. Also, Heather and LuAnn were fine this season until T&C and that should not have been an issue IMO. Heather apologized for waking LuAnn up, they made up in T&C and Heather thought they had moved beyond it and then LuAnn/Dorinda got their 2 little pea brains together and came up with this bogus excuse to start a fight on camera, the "they were trying to catch me with a guy" lie. Also, could it not be said that LuAnn also had a "business" relationship with Heather/Carole especially since LuAnn knew the HW game far better than they did. I do believe that Heather though her friendship with LuAnn was real, not for the show, after all, Heather is THE only HW that keeps in contact with ALL the others in the off season, phone calls, lunch's, dinners, getting together/visits, ect., something they all say.

 

How and when was LuAnn "honest" about her past relationship/feelings about Bethenny? She started this season, on camera, kissing up Bethenny's butt straight off the bat. LOL

 

As soon as Bethenny and Carole express their displeasure of Heather interrupting them, she stopped and was quiet. LuAnn interrupted and talked over others a lot and Bethenny kept adding in her snarky comments without fail also.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Did anybody else catch Carole's remark that none the other housewives did such a good job raising their kids? Ramona's eyes started to revolve.

 

 

You mean the Brady Bunch comment? I thought she was just talking about none of them having a lot of kids--I didn't understand why that would be significant the first time she said it either, but I think that's what she meant by it. She said it once on the show and said some of them have only one more kid than she does--iow, one child.

 

She really didn't seem to find the comment hurtful the way viewers did--and had no trouble letting Luanne said that she was just saying "Oh, you don't have kids so you can date who you want." (Followed by an evil cackle.)

 

 

Right. The Brady Bunch. Didn't you think that was directed at Luann to imply that her kids were messed up? That's the kind of stealth bitchiness that is right in Carole's wheelhouse.

The problem is that she directed it to all of them and I think Ramona for one was taken aback.

 

No. I thought it was in response to their exchange at Ramona's party.  About Lu telling Carole why it's inappropriate to date younger men.  I'm paraphrasing Lu says they're not suitable to be introduced to the children.  Carole says (again paraphrasing) I don't have to worry about children.  Lu says I know cuz you don't have any.  Then in her TH Carole says it's not like these women are raising the brady bunch, they all have like one more child than I do.  I think she was trying to say none of you are Maria Von Trapp ok, it's not like you have enough children for me to consider you some maven or Dr. Spockish expert, you've got one more child than I do.  I wanted her to win right there because the offhandedness of what Lu considered and delivered as an insult was such a vicious thing to say to any woman but it was wonky and the pedantic side of me can't help but point out that Lu has two children so womp womp on the Carole's TH.  

 

Such a big deal over a statement of fact.  Carole is childless by choice.  Carole can't pretend to be offended over it.    It is far less an insulting comment than Carole claiming she is only one child shy of being a parent.  Obviously she does not have the ability to feel or see things as a parent if she makes idiotic statements such as that-and for what purpose? Any parent can tell you the day you become a parent your life changes dramatically be it by childbirth, adoption or surrogacy.  I really don't see the need for an apology.  Carole apparently doesn't care if she hurts Luann's children because when asked not to speak publicly and disparagingly about Luann, Carole's response was to say LuAnn should not bang random guys on vacation.    Does she feel better getting that sentiment out to the de Lesseps kids?  That is on Carole and whoever else feels the need to respond that way.  Carole is heartless and a huge phony.

 

To me Carole brought her relationship with Adam into the forefront and did it with a build up-what will Luann say, do or feel?  So once Luann reacted Carole started in on the attack Luann stuff.  Carole claims to want to be a friend of Luann but not the Countess. Carole screwed the friendship when she kept up with the Luann is a slut routine.  Friends don't tell stories out of school.  Period. Luann expressed an opinion about Carole's relationship.  Carole is the one who needs to be right about the relationship-not Luann.  Luann expressed great umbrage at having Carole and Heather bust in her room and begin the interrogation.  Carole is mad, so mad she threw someone she called a friend under the bus and now wonders why Luann does not consider her a friend?  Luann forgave her once for her blow by blow account (of stuff she didn't even see) in St. Barth's.  Now she did again-so she never really was a friend or a parent.

 

She's not childless by choice, she's childless by circumstance.  We know this because when she and Doris were in London she was lamenting on whom she would've been had Anthony lived.  Specifically, perhaps one of those moms annoying people on the sidewalk trying to push a double stroller.   I was highly offended by what Lu said.   I have a baby.  Motherhood is a gift for sure, but as a mom, especially as a mom, I think the kind of person who views it as some sort of special talent to be lorded over childless women is the purest type of asshole there is.   It's true these chicks say nasty shit to each other all the time, the distinction for me is it's usually about their behavior or words, things they can actually help.  To use a woman's childlessness, her choice or not, as some kind of strike against her womanhood is simply vile.  Luanne can go suck an entire bag of dicks, I'm not here for her attempt to reframe what she said, it's not going to restore her anyway.

 

Carole asked this in her TH and I'd like to hear the answer to it - why should Carole care anymore about Luanne's children than Luanne does?  Carole did say that Lu shouldn't bang random guys on vacation.  The missing preceding sentence there is that (in reference to the barge in) Lu asked Carole what if she'd had a guy in her bed?  What would her son have thought about that  {{pearlclutch}} we must consider the children darling.  Well she did have a guy in her bed and now the children know it darling because they've heard it from your own mouth, not Carole's and seen these episodes.  Even in that paragraph she is two different people. The Countess is appalled at the idea that her image be besmirched in the eyes of her children.  Luanne is not horrified enough by the possibility to stop her from getting some.  Mazel but I still don't know why that's any part of Carole's problem. 

[Sincerely Yours]

"Not exactly the same" ?  That's putting it mildly!  A visit to a designer for a dress leads to borrowing dresses....because you're a greedy bitch.  A visit to someone's house leads to a romance....because you are two humans attracted to each other.

 

 

Not the outcome but the fact that Carole likes to draw lines and boundaries when it comes to important people in her life and really? Worrying about your friend/castmate being a greedy bitch and your friends sensibilities compromised has more relevance than feeling a certain kind of way because a castmate/friend contributed to a certain amount of emotional discord even, if it was "inadvertently", to an actual family member? Look Carole could be made about the way Luann went about it but in the course of her defense and speaking out about Lu's behavior over it she became very disrespectful of the niece. Whether she "owed it" to her or not. Her annoyance with Lu didn't mean she had to "defend" hers relationship to the point of being so dismissive and callous of the niece's situation with Adam. Which lets face it Carole knew it was completely plausible that Lu's claims had some relevance. So to me it should have been more about respecting the niece and not about trying to stick it to Luann but Carole chose trying to stick it to Luann. But hey, far be it from me to think being considerate about a sensitive situation is something people should strive for even if the person they are dealing with isn't as subtle or is a saint in their own behavior. <Shrug> 

[JAYJAY1979]

People accused bethanny at the start of the season of being like jill zarin...but wouldn't that apply to luann for trying to craft this absurd story after filming had pretty much ended?

[Sincerely Yours]

It's basic protocol as well as common sense that you don't go after exes of your friends (or family), unless you want to cause drama. The only respectful way to go about it is to ASK first, and if your friend says it's fine, then you may proceed. Even then, the person may not really be unbothered, but at least they can't openly be upset with you because you got their permission. This shows respect for the relationship you two share. So I understand why Lu is upset: Carole showed zero respect or regard for her family member's feelings.

 

Carole knows she violated this protocol and instead of just apologizing for that, she's adamant she did nothing for Lu to be upset about and tries to deflect by making it only about age and sex.

 

And it's not like Adam is exceptional, either. From what we've seen of him, he has nothing to say. But of course that's not why she's with him. So then, there's no shortage of scrawny boys waiting for a come up/sugar momma.

It's that freaking simple!!! Thank you!!!!

 

And no it's not childish. And no this etiquette doesn't die after high school. It's about being a nice, considerate person. Plain and simple. It's not hard and I'm not sure I would go as far as requiring official permission but at least have the decency to hash it out, give a heads up, and show that you are at least aware of the possible awkwardness that it will cause. Damn. But if not then don't go on the attack when shade gets thrown at you. It's funny when people don't like the affects of behavior they know will produce negative ramifications. 

If LuAnn feels that Adam lied to Carole, then she needs to take it up with Adam, NOT Carole. The fact that she was fine with Carole until T&C speaks volumes that the 2 of them dating was not an issue with her or with her niece, it was a way to keep her apple for next season.  Nicole can always tweet her displeasure or defend herself, she is no stranger to "reality"  TV herself , whereas JFK Jr. can NOT defend himself.

I still don't get. I need proof that Luann and Carole were fine. I'm being serious not snarky can someone tell me what shows that Luann wasn't upset over the Adam situation? What proves that Luann was completely and absolutely fine with Carole and Adam? I'm not sure what this sure fire proof is and I'm always confused when this point is made.

[ZaldamoWilder]

It's that freaking simple!!! Thank you!!!!

 

And no it's not childish. And no this etiquette doesn't die after high school. It's about being a nice, considerate person. Plain and simple. It's not hard and I'm not sure I would go as far as requiring official permission but at least have the decency to hash it out, give a heads up, and show that you are at least aware of the possible awkwardness that it will cause. Damn. But if not then don't go on the attack when shade gets thrown at you. It's funny when people don't like the affects of behavior they know will produce negative ramifications. 

 

no snark, sincere question - what isn't childish? expecting the continuation of a relationship that's over because you're still physically involved or Lu's expectation that Carole owed her the decency of notification once she found Adam was Nicole's ex?   

 

Carole did tell Lu she was dating Adam, but by the time they were talking Lu already knew, in fact she said she'd been told earlier that day by Nicole. 

 

again, no snark, I'm genuinely curious - what should Carole have done before entering a relationship with Adam?  Have gotten permission from Luanne? Asked Adam to seek permission? 

[WireWrap]

It's that freaking simple!!! Thank you!!!!

 

And no it's not childish. And no this etiquette doesn't die after high school. It's about being a nice, considerate person. Plain and simple. It's not hard and I'm not sure I would go as far as requiring official permission but at least have the decency to hash it out, give a heads up, and show that you are at least aware of the possible awkwardness that it will cause. Damn. But if not then don't go on the attack when shade gets thrown at you. It's funny when people don't like the affects of behavior they know will produce negative ramifications. 

Actually it is not that simple. Carole did not know that LuAnn's niece, Nicole, dated Adam when they, Carole/Adam, met and started dating themselves. Also, LuAnn was well aware of the flirting going on between them at her house that weekend but said nothing to Carole. Shouldn't she have mentioned that Adam USED to date her niece then and shouldn't she have said something to Adam as well? I really believe that LuAnn would have had NO problems if Carole had just had hookup sex with Adam but no relationship, it is the "relationship" part that upsets LuAnn which is, IMO, ass backwards.

[Mondrianyone]

She's not childless by choice, she's childless by circumstance.

 

That was obviously the case when she was with Anthony.  But her life didn't end when his did.  If she had a strong desire to be a mother, she had years after his death to choose to be one.  So I think it's fair to say she's childless by choice.