Captain America: Civil War (2016)

[Spartan Girl]

No, but a lot of fans seem more forgiving of Bucky than Sharon...which is ridiculous, if you ask me.

[stealinghome]

I would say that if Bucky and Sharon were both brainwashed, they both bear the same amount of responsibility (read: none) for what they did. But I also agree with whoever it was that doubted Sharon will kill Steve in the movie. She's too much of a nonentity in the MCU for them to go that route. If they were going to have it be Sharon they needed to build her up way more in Winter Soldier.

[Dandesun]

Yeah, movie!Sharon is a non-entity thus far. She's there but she's very background. Bucky has more presence and more of a relationship with Steve despite his being absent for so many years.

Sharon also has the unfortunate position of being set up as a possible romantic foil for Steve when Peggy remains vastly popular. I think the MCU is gong to have a much harder time selling Steve/Sharon than the comics ever did.

[stealinghome]

Sharon also has the unfortunate position of being set up as a possible romantic foil for Steve when Peggy remains vastly popular. I think the MCU is gong to have a much harder time selling Steve/Sharon than the comics ever did.

Yeah, I don't know where they can really go with a romantic interest for MCU Steve given Peggy's awesomeness and Chris Evans/Hayley Atwell's great chemistry. They might be better off just never touching the subject of his love life. Let the fans fill in the blanks in the way they want!

 

Or somehow time-traveling Peggy from the late 1940s to the modern day, but we all know that won't happen. I'd LOVE to see Peggy kicking back with Natasha, Maria Hill, and Pepper, though!

[benteen]

Bucky as Captain America was a great storyline in the comics but for a lot of reasons, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[bmoore4026]

Dandesun, on 09 Feb 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

Sharon also has the unfortunate position of being set up as a possible romantic foil for Steve when Peggy remains vastly popular. I think the MCU is gong to have a much harder time selling Steve/Sharon than the comics ever did.

 

Maybe they can pull a "Tomb of Ligeia" and have Peggy take over Sharon body and soul.  Then everybody would be happy!  Except for Sharon, because she wouldn't be anymore.  Well, gotta break eggs to make omelets, I guess.

[Perfect Xero]

Considering that the next Thor supposedly has something to do with Hela as the villain and the next Avengers has to do with Thanos, I think it's basically open season for any dead characters to return in those 2 films.

[Danny Franks]

So it's okay for Bucky to be brainwashed and kill tons of people, but Sharon is brainwashed into shooting one guy -- her own boyfriend, which devestates her -- she winds up despised among the fandom? Double standards, people!

 

I don't think Sharon was despised amongst the fanbase that was reading the comic at the time. At least, I felt no anger towards her at all, and I never spoke to anyone who did. She was controlled and abused completely, and learning what she had done almost destroyed her. My feelings were of sympathy, and of anger towards the real culprits.

 

It was just a really good story. One that was well thought out and well written, and that was not at all the sort of 'we're killing this character because it'll get media attention' crap that comic books publishers often pull. Steve died to further the story that Brubaker was telling, his death wasn't the end goal of it. It opened up years of storytelling for several characters.

[Rick Kitchen]

I hate seeing Natasha and Clint on opposite sides.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

I think it's basically open season for any dead characters to return in those 2 films.

Please let it be Quicksilver.

[stealinghome]

Please let it be Quicksilver.

Preach! The MCU version of Quicksilver is soooo much more interesting to me than the X-Men one.

[Jazzy24]

Please let it be Quicksilver.

Yes!!! I want him back, my favorite speedster.

[Jenniferbug]

Unpopular opinion: I would have preferred Quicksilver to stick around and Scarlet Witch to be dead, if we had to lose one of them.

I mean, I'm glad Scarlet Witch is around because we need more females in the MCU, but I feel like (so far) the fact that she's female is pretty much the only reason I want her to stick around- nothing to do with her personality or abilities. I'm not a comic book reader, but from the summaries I've read of her storylines, I'm not anxious to see her onscreen.

Obviously all that can change as she has more screen time, but right now I'm not a fan.

And while I'm sharing unpopular opinions...the trailers for this movie are making me actively dislike Bucky and Steve. Tony isn't my favorite so I'm not automatically on his side. In fact, I'd say Iron Man and Cap are loved equally by me. But every time I see Bucky trying to rip out Tony's arc reactor or Bucky and Cap double teaming Tony using Cap'n shield (and now Bucky seemingly trying to shoot Tony in the face), I get seriously pissed that the whole damn thing revolves around Bucky. And then I just get mad at Steve for being so blindly loyal and for turning so harshly on Tony and Natasha for a guy who he doesn't really know anymore. I'm sure it will all be handled better than it appears in the trailers, but right now I'm mad that Bucky is making my team turn on each other.

[BatmanBeatles]

Preach! The MCU version of Quicksilver is soooo much more interesting to me than the X-Men one.

Better looking too. Me? Shallow?

[bmoore4026]

stealinghome, on 10 Feb 2016 - 8:14 PM, said:

Preach! The MCU version of Quicksilver is soooo much more interesting to me than the X-Men one.

 

Well, the X-Men movies are essentially "The Wolverine Show also starring some people called The X-Men", so, yeah, more interesting characters with neater powers are going to get screwed over in favor of Hugh Jackman.  This is why the MCU movies are more interesting.

[anna0852]

And while I'm sharing unpopular opinions...the trailers for this movie are making me actively dislike Bucky and Steve. Tony isn't my favorite so I'm not automatically on his side. In fact, I'd say Iron Man and Cap are loved equally by me. But every time I see Bucky trying to rip out Tony's arc reactor or Bucky and Cap double teaming Tony using Cap'n shield (and now Bucky seemingly trying to shoot Tony in the face), I get seriously pissed that the whole damn thing revolves around Bucky. And then I just get mad at Steve for being so blindly loyal and for turning so harshly on Tony and Natasha for a guy who he doesn't really know anymore. I'm sure it will all be handled better than it appears in the trailers, but right now I'm mad that Bucky is making my team turn on each other.

You just hit the nail on the head on why I keep veering back to Team Tony. I know trailers lie but these are really setting Cap up to be the unreasonable party.

[stealinghome]

Funny how perspective is different...I walk away from the trailers thinking Tony is pretty unreasonable. Someone above mentioned that Cap wants Bucky to be let go free and clear. I don't really get that from the trailers. What I get from the trailers is Steve not wanting Bucky to be executed on sight ("Well, the people who think you do are on their way here. And they're not planning on taking you alive") and not wanting Bucky to be taken into custody IF they're not going to help him, they're just going to have a sham trial and execute him. Bucky pretty clearly needs massive help. Do you really think Steve wouldn't want Bucky to get it if he found the people providing that help trustworthy?

I don't think wanting someone not to be killed without a fair trial is all that unreasonable, personally.

You know the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Bucky isn't a pretty good analogue for a lot of veterans today. The parallel isn't exact, obviously, but still, we're all about them when they're soldiers and fighting the good fight, and then when they come home massively f'ed up from what they've seen and in desperate need of emotional and psychological care, we have zero time/interest/resources/money to devote to them.

Edited February 11, 2016 by stealinghome

[kattybiz]

I think IF Cap dies in this one (and that still hasn't been confirmed - the Russos shot multiple death scenes), he comes back in one of the Infinity War movies.  Evans has a 6 movie contract, and Civil War is movie #5.  I've always thought he dies at the end of Part I, myself....I think Rhodey dies in this one. 

 

I also think people don't forgive Sharon because sadly, the legion of Stucky shippers want her to be a bad guy.  And I say that as one myself.  (Hey, if I can conveniently ignore Clint's freaking WIFE, I can ignore Cap getting together with Sharon if it happens.)

[fireice13]

 I get seriously pissed that the whole damn thing revolves around Bucky. And then I just get mad at Steve for being so blindly loyal and for turning so harshly on Tony and Natasha for a guy who he doesn't really know anymore. I'm sure it will all be handled better than it appears in the trailers, but right now I'm mad that Bucky is making my team turn on each other.

I think what needs to be remembered is that this isn't an Avengers movie, it isn't an Iron Man movie, it's a Captain America movie. Bucky is a pretty big part of Captain America's story and life so it makes sense that he's a big part of the story.

[VCRTracking]

Having just re-read the original Winter Soldier story arc by Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting, three things came to mind. One the movie Winter Soldier was a pretty damn good adaptation, taking the basic story and fitting it in with the MCU continuity, two, Natasha pretty much filled the role Sharon Carter had in the comics. Steve and Sharon were exes in the original story and Natasha was a platonic, if flirtatious co-worker. And three, in the original story Bucky didn't get his memory back until Cap used the Cosmic Cube to restore it. Bucky had been thoroughly brainwashed by the Russians and Cap probably would have had to put him down if he hadn't had the cube.  In the movie we get the sense he's only starting to slowly remember who he was.

Edited February 13, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Miss Dee]

I'm not a comics reader at all. Is there room in the canon for Steve Rogers to get demuscled and go back to what he was before, rather than outright killing him?

[OakGoblinFly]

Yeah, after seeing that I'm on Team Tony. I was to begin with but this just cements it.

 

What Hydra did to Bucky was horrible and it wasn't his fault but from the trailer, he still appears very unstable and dangerous. Something Steve appears to be having a hard time accepting. And I get that, I do. Bucky is his friend and Steve wants to help him. That doesn't make Bucky a safe person to be loose on the streets no matter how much Steve or Bucky might want otherwise. 

 

And given that Bucky killed his parents, I think Steve is expecting too much from Tony in asking him to be okay with this.

 

 

I don't think Bucky is any more or less dangerous than Stark, Hulk, or Black Widow.

[OakGoblinFly]

I'm most excited to see Black Panther and a seasoned Scarlet Witch in action.

Btw, wasn't this storyline seen as a mistake by the Marvel comics fandom? It looks great and I trust the Russos, but still.

 

 

I thought it was the opposite actually; that Marvel comics was struggling until the Civil War story line (and all that followed it) and that that this particular storyline saw an uptick in comic sales 

[SeanC]

I'm not a comics reader at all. Is there room in the canon for Steve Rogers to get demuscled and go back to what he was before, rather than outright killing him?

That has happened in the comics before (indeed, that's his status at the moment, though he's due to get his powers back).  As to whether it can happen in the films, no idea.

[OakGoblinFly]

I'm on Team Bucky, and always will be. Even if they make a complete mess of his character in this movie, he and his story are still my favourite things about the last 20+ years of Marvel comics.

 

Sadly, I don't have a whole lot of interest in this movie, so far. I feel shortchanged that Bucky's journey is being lumped into all this Civil War crap. Civil War was not a very good story, and the movie version actually looks less interesting. The Death of Captain America was an outstanding story, and was the only good outcome of Civil War, but they're not going to do that story so Bucky is never going to be allowed to be anything more than a sidekick in the cinematic universe.

 

The more bombastic and overblown the Marvel movies get, the more I appreciate the grounded, low key Netflix stuff. Not having to devote so much time to massive action scenes lets the writers do a much better job of... well... writing. I'd much rather see a Winter Soldier Netflix series, that takes its cues from Ed Brubaker's comic book, than I would Luke Cage or Iron Fist.

 

 

Never say never .........

. there have been film hints since the first movie that Bucky might indeed carry the shield; more than Falcon who is now Captain America in the comics - though he has to give up the shield soon because Steve Rogers is coming back as Captain America late spring

.  I think a lot depends on where the powers-that-be want to take the story line and whether or not they can sign Evans to another contract or three.

Considering that the next Thor supposedly has something to do with Hela as the villain and the next Avengers has to do with Thanos, I think it's basically open season for any dead characters to return in those 2 films.

 

 

AND there are still two stones floating out there (though I suspect we'll see one in Doctor Strange).

[lion10]

I don't think Bucky is any more or less dangerous than Stark, Hulk, or Black Widow.

In terms of pure damage output, no he isn't. But the problem is that unlike Natasha, Tony, or Bruce, Bucky has apparently little to no control over his actions. He's like a faulty loaded shotgun that could go off at any moment. He has carried out a lot of assassinations and unlike Black Widow, he hasn't demonstrated that he is willing or able to stop what he's doing.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't think that characterization is all that far from the Hulk, who seems quite rampage-prone whatever Dr. Banner's intentions. Stark doesn't seem to have any trouble excusing the consequences of his actions (or his own, which are ultimately responsible for who knows how many deaths and Sokovia's capitol becoming a fine layer of dust covering half of Europe).

[stealinghome]

In terms of pure damage output, no he isn't. But the problem is that unlike Natasha, Tony, or Bruce, Bucky has apparently little to no control over his actions. He's like a faulty loaded shotgun that could go off at any moment. He has carried out a lot of assassinations and unlike Black Widow, he hasn't demonstrated that he is willing or able to stop what he's doing.

The last time we saw him in canon, Bucky was breaking free of the Winter Soldier programming--Bucky stopped himself from pounding Steve into dust and then actually saved his life by fishing him out of the water. We also saw him at the Smithsonian NOT killing anyone and trying to figure out who he is. I'd say that's a willingness and ability to stop what he's been doing. It's a place to start, at the very least. A foundation on which to build.

Agree that I see no difference between Bucky/the Winter Soldier and Bruce/the Hulk, who Tony seems to have no problem excusing/working with/provoking when he feels like it.

Edited February 17, 2016 by stealinghome

[Perfect Xero]

Banner's had the Hulk under control for years, his only "rampages" have been the direct result of mind manipulating magic. He'd been working with Natasha and SHIELD to keep himself under control. He and Tony built Veronica as a contingency to take down Hulk in the event that he did lose control.

 

So, in that respect Banner/Hulk, at the stage that Iron Man and the Avengers were working with him was years ahead of where Bucky is now.

 

Also, I don't think we know nearly enough of the plot to judge what's going on in this movie. We don't know what Bucky has done, not done, or been framed for since the end of Winter Soldier.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[Emily Thrace]

Banner's had the Hulk under control for years, his only "rampages" have been the direct result of mind manipulating magic. He'd been working with Natasha and SHIELD to keep himself under control. He and Tony built Veronica as a contingency to take down Hulk in the event that he did lose control.

 

Except we don't really know what triggers Bucky. His rampage could be the result of mind manipulation (I suspect  that's what Crossbones is up to in the preview.) The Winter Soldier is also a lot easier to contain than the Hulk. Hell just take a away his metal arm and give him a regular prosthesis and that would neutralize a lot of his abilities. There's no reason he couldn't be rehabbing at the Avengers base rather than some Gitmo like prison. I see what going on with him as a lot like Hawkeye in the first avengers film. Once they know his mind control works it probably is manageable. No court on the planet would hold Bucky legally responsible for what he's done. The bottom line is Bucky is mentally ill and he should be treated that way not like an animal to be caged.

[Perfect Xero]

Except we don't really know what triggers Bucky. His rampage could be the result of mind manipulation (I suspect  that's what Crossbones is up to in the preview.) The Winter Soldier is also a lot easier to contain than the Hulk. Hell just take a away his metal arm and give him a regular prosthesis and that would neutralize a lot of his abilities. There's no reason he couldn't be rehabbing at the Avengers base rather than some Gitmo like prison. I see what going on with him as a lot like Hawkeye in the first avengers film. Once they know his mind control works it probably is manageable. No court on the planet would hold Bucky legally responsible for what he's done. The bottom line is Bucky is mentally ill and he should be treated that way not like an animal to be caged.

 

But the way we normally deal with a mentally ill person who kills someone is to arrest them, determine if their mental illness means that they are not responsible for what they did, and then put them in a facility for treatment and rehabilitation until they are determined to no longer pose a danger to others. If that person refuses to surrender peacefully then they'll be taken by force, because mentally unstable killers can't be allowed to just walk the streets until they decide to turn themselves in. Which, as far as I can tell, seems to what team Iron Man will be trying to do in this movie.

 

What we don't do is just trust that the mentally ill person's friend has it all covered and that everyone should just back off and let them handle it.

[anna0852]

But the way we normally deal with a mentally ill person who kills someone is to arrest them, determine if their mental illness means that they are not responsible for what they did, and then put them in a facility for treatment and rehabilitation until they are determined to no longer pose a danger to others. If that person refuses to surrender peacefully then they'll be taken by force, because mentally unstable killers can't be allowed to just walk the streets until they decide to turn themselves in. Which, as far as I can tell, seems to what team Iron Man will be trying to do in this movie.

What we don't do is just trust that the mentally ill person's friend has it all covered and that everyone should just back off and let them handle it.

Exactly!

[Bruinsfan]

Also, Bucky apparently benefited from something very like the Super Soldier Serum that transformed Cap. We've seen the latter jump dozens of yards, beat the crap out of whole room-fulls of highly skilled soldiers, and come out of a fistfight with an Asgardian not much the worse for wear. Capturing him without doing serious or lethal harm isn't an easy proposition, particularly when there are likely to be normal human police officers in the mix.

[stealinghome]

But the way we normally deal with a mentally ill person who kills someone is to arrest them, determine if their mental illness means that they are not responsible for what they did, and then put them in a facility for treatment and rehabilitation until they are determined to no longer pose a danger to others. If that person refuses to surrender peacefully then they'll be taken by force, because mentally unstable killers can't be allowed to just walk the streets until they decide to turn themselves in. Which, as far as I can tell, seems to what team Iron Man will be trying to do in this movie.

What we don't do is just trust that the mentally ill person's friend has it all covered and that everyone should just back off and let them handle it.

But you know what else we don't do? Send a hit squad to execute a mentally ill person without any form of trial or attempted treatment.

Again--yes, the trailers are incomplete, but I don't understand why this debate is being framed as "People want Bucky to come in for treatment and evaluation and Steve says no." That's not what we've seen so far. Steve's voiceover explicitly says "The people who think you do, they're coming for you. And they're not planning on taking you alive." At least based on the trailer, Steve's two options seem to be "Let Bucky be executed by a hit squad or let Bucky go to save his life." There is no peaceable surrender+getting Bucky help in custody third option.

Frankly, from what I can tell, Team Iron Man (or whoever they work for) apparently thinks they get to order assassinations of American citizens without due process, a trial, psychiatric treatment, etc.

Edited February 19, 2016 by stealinghome

[Perfect Xero]

But you know what else we don't do? Send a hit squad to execute a mentally ill person without any form of trial or attempted treatment.

Again--yes, the trailers are incomplete, but I don't understand why this debate is being framed as "People want Bucky to come in for treatment and evaluation and Steve says no." That's not what we've seen so far. Steve's voiceover explicitly says "The people who think you do, they're coming for you. And they're not planning on taking you alive." At least based on the trailer, Steve's two options seem to be "Let Bucky be executed by a hit squad or let Bucky go to save his life." There is no peaceable surrender+getting Bucky help in custody third option.

Frankly, from what I can tell, Team Iron Man (or whoever they work for) apparently thinks they get to order assassinations of American citizens without due process, a trial, psychiatric treatment, etc.

 

We know these characters fairly well at this point (well, other than Panther), I think it's a safe bet that Tony, James, and Natasha aren't (knowingly, at least) going along with a plan to assassinate someone.

 

I do, however, find it highly believable that Steve would refuse to turn his friend over to the proper authorities if he believed he was being framed

[stealinghome]

We know these characters fairly well at this point (well, other than Panther), I think it's a safe bet that Tony, James, and Natasha aren't (knowingly, at least) going along with a plan to assassinate someone.

Maybe not knowingly at first, but if/when Steve says "golly gee, guys, someone sent a hit squad after Bucky, I'm a little leery of turning him in to people who suddenly are really interested in bringing him in," shouldn't it make them stop and question? Not doing so paints them as either unbelievably dumb or unbelievably naive. And also willing to trust their corporate overlords over Steve.

[Perfect Xero]

Maybe not knowingly at first, but if/when Steve says "golly gee, guys, someone sent a hit squad after Bucky, I'm a little leery of turning him in to people who suddenly are really interested in bringing him in," shouldn't it make them stop and question? Not doing so paints them as either unbelievably dumb or unbelievably naive. And also willing to trust their corporate overlords over Steve.

 

"Corporate overlords"? What?

 

If Tony and Natasha believe that Bucky did what they say he did and/or that he'll be safe in confinement, the why isn't Steve stopping to consider that they might be right?  Maybe Captain America is the one who is too emotionally compromised by his relationship with Bucky and is suffering from enough PTSD after the Hydra stuff to make him paranoid and believe that they're sending "hit squads" after Bucky. As far as we know Cap and friends are beating up a bunch of German police who are trying to do their job and arrest an incredibly dangerous terrorist so his culpability can be determined through the legal process.

 

The only word we have that anyone is out to kill Bucky is one line from Steve that we have no idea the context of.

 

We also have a scene where Bucky is pointing a gun at Tony's head at point blank range and pulls the trigger, so maybe he has good reason to think that Bucky is dangerous and needs to be taken off the streets.

[Bruinsfan]

Maybe not knowingly at first, but if/when Steve says "golly gee, guys, someone sent a hit squad after Bucky, I'm a little leery of turning him in to people who suddenly are really interested in bringing him in," shouldn't it make them stop and question? Not doing so paints them as either unbelievably dumb or unbelievably naive. And also willing to trust their corporate overlords over Steve.

Based on past characterization I assume Tony would disagree if Steve stated that the sky is blue.

[Emily Thrace]

But the way we normally deal with a mentally ill person who kills someone is to arrest them, determine if their mental illness means that they are not responsible for what they did, and then put them in a facility for treatment and rehabilitation until they are determined to no longer pose a danger to others. If that person refuses to surrender peacefully then they'll be taken by force, because mentally unstable killers can't be allowed to just walk the streets until they decide to turn themselves in. Which, as far as I can tell, seems to what team Iron Man will be trying to do in this movie.

 

What we don't do is just trust that the mentally ill person's friend has it all covered and that everyone should just back off and let them handle it.

 

The idea that Bucky is being arrested for trial is a pretty big leap based on what we've seen so far IMO.  I haven't seen anything besides mentions of "detaining" Bucky Which could be code for all kinds of things. There's also the matter of precedent. Hawkeye wasn't detained for his actions in the first Avengers neither was Bruce Banner for his actions as the Hulk. Why would Bucky be treated any different than them?   Not to mention the Avengers training faculty is probably better suited to what Bucky needs than your average mental hospital. They probably have a Hulk containment area already set up and the best shrinks on call. So why not put Bucky there? Steve would be an integral part of any recovery for Bucky so why keep them apart?  Unless there is another agenda, unless you weren't planning to give Bucky due process or you wanted to use him yourself.  A lot of people might see Bucky's release from Hydra  as an opportunity to get themselves a new highly effective weapon. That's the sticking point for me not that people are chasing Bucky but why they are doing it.I simply don't see a reason not release Bucky to Steve's custody unless they want him for some other purpose. Even if its just to make an example of him.

 

I also think if all these people wanted to do was put Bucky on trial Steve wouldn't be objecting to that. Of all the MCU Steve has the solidest moral compass I trust his instincts a lot more than I do Tony's. Tony's more than narcissistic enough to let the fact that Bucky killed his parents blind him to anything else.   I can't quite see Steve doing the same even if it is Bucky on the line.

[Perfect Xero]

The idea that Bucky is being arrested for trial is a pretty big leap based on what we've seen so far IMO.  I haven't seen anything besides mentions of "detaining" Bucky Which could be code for all kinds of things. There's also the matter of precedent. Hawkeye wasn't detained for his actions in the first Avengers neither was Bruce Banner for his actions as the Hulk. Why would Bucky be treated any different than them?   Not to mention the Avengers training faculty is probably better suited to what Bucky needs than your average mental hospital. They probably have a Hulk containment area already set up and the best shrinks on call. So why not put Bucky there? Steve would be an integral part of any recovery for Bucky so why keep them apart?  Unless there is another agenda, unless you weren't planning to give Bucky due process or you wanted to use him yourself.  A lot of people might see Bucky's release from Hydra  as an opportunity to get themselves a new highly effective weapon. That's the sticking point for me not that people are chasing Bucky but why they are doing it.I simply don't see a reason not release Bucky to Steve's custody unless they want him for some other purpose. Even if its just to make an example of him.

 

I think the whole point of the Sokovia Accords in the wake of AoU and TWS is that they're now under tighter restrictions and scrutiny and that there's no Nick Fury and SHIELD to make allowances or look the other way in name of keeping the superheroes in the game.

 

Also, the trailer shows a quick shot of what seems to be the UN General Assembly being blown up, if that's what people believe that Bucky did, then it's well beyond anything that Hawkeye did while under Loki's control, or even the Hulk's rampages in terms of the social and political impact it would have on the world.

[Emily Thrace]

I think the whole point of the Sokovia Accords in the wake of AoU and TWS is that they're now under tighter restrictions and scrutiny and that there's no Nick Fury and SHIELD to make allowances or look the other way in name of keeping the superheroes in the game.

 

Also, the trailer shows a quick shot of what seems to be the UN General Assembly being blown up, if that's what people believe that Bucky did, then it's well beyond anything that Hawkeye did while under Loki's control, or even the Hulk's rampages in terms of the social and political impact it would have on the world.

 

1) Your still assuming these people have good intentions. Which based on the fact that Steve's telling Bucky they're "not planning on taking you alive" is optimistic at best.  What your saying really doesn't make sense based on what we've seen so far.

 

2) When has the faceless government agency ever turned out to be the good guys in the MCU?.

 

3) Even if Steve is just blinded by loyalty why would Hawkeye and the others follow him? It seems more like its Tony's team that has a personal vendetta more than the guys on Cap's side.

 

Speaking of Tony's team I can't help but wonder why Black Widow is on Tony's side. Her comic history with the Winter Soldier doesn't quite mesh with the MCU timeline but it might go along way to explaining why she thinks Bucky can't be saved if shes already tried. (Plus her relationship with Hulk went over like a lead balloon and they torpedoed her and Hawkeye so opening the door for one of her most popular comic pairings makes a lot of sense)   Otherwise I can't see an explanation that doesn't look hypocritical on her part.  Mostly I just hope we get an explanation I would hate to see her sidelined after the big role she had in the last Cap movie.

[Perfect Xero]

1) Your still assuming these people have good intentions. Which based on the fact that Steve's telling Bucky they're "not planning on taking you alive" is optimistic at best.  What your saying really doesn't make sense based on what we've seen so far.

 

3) Even if Steve is just blinded by loyalty why would Hawkeye and the others follow him? It seems more like its Tony's team that has a personal vendetta more than the guys on Cap's side.

 

 

Again, we have no idea the context of that line.

 

I could see a scenario where Bucky blows up UN while under Winter Solider programming. Fictional Evil MCU Country X sends a hit squad after Bucky under the pretext of revenge, but really to cover their role in the terrorist attack. Meanwhile the US, UK, and other allied countries say, "We have to bring this guy in to stand trial and answer questions about why he did this horrible thing and who else might have been involved."

 

In a situation like that, I think it's very reasonable that TeamIronMan is working with people who they believe will treat Bucky fairly, while also believing that he's currently too dangerous to be allowed to run free and that at the same time there is a third faction out there looking to eliminate him, and that Team Cap doesn't know who they can trust.

 

Steve has shown that he literally values Bucky more than his own life, that he'd rather risk Bucky straight up beating him to death (and then running free in the world as a dangerous, mentally damaged killer) than fight back, but somehow Tony and Natasha are the ones who are carrying out some sort of personal issue with Bucky?

 

3. I assume that when they divided up teams on the playground that whoever picked last just got stuck with Hawkeye ...

[Demented Daisy]

I'll spoiler tag, just in case:

 

Lots of rumors about a mole on one of the teams; Black Widow and Hawkeye are the most commonly suspected.  Too obvious?  Probably.  But it might explain why Black Widow is on the "government" side.

[Bruinsfan]

5 movies' worth of characterization makes me extremely skeptical of Tony Stark being a good little soldier who's doing whatever the government says because they must be right and anyone who disobeys must be in the wrong. Either he has a strong personal reason for siding with the authorities or this is a butthurt snit on his part over Steve valuing someone else's friendship over his.

 

I find it more interesting that Vision and Cap are on opposite sides, since they're the two most noble characters in the mix and the ones who seem to be most committed to following their own moral compass (as opposed to their own impulsive whims/arrogance) regardless of orders. That indicates to me that there's probably a lot of evidence for both sides of the issue having a point.

 

Also interesting that the two most powerful characters, Vision and Scarlet Witch, are on opposite sides. Though I think we can all predict how that conflict is going to turn out.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[Dandesun]

I am sincerely doubting that Bucky blew up anything... mind-controlled or no for this flick. He's an amazing scapegoat and, let's not forget, that Crossbones is out there. He knows who Bucky is, what 'conditioning' he went through and he's Hydra to the core. Is Crossbones working for Baron Zemo? It's extremely likely to my mind.

 

What's the best way to take down Cap than to set up his long lost best friend? Steve will walk through fire for Bucky to give him a chance to be part of the world again; to amend what he probably considers his greatest failure...  not saving Bucky during the war. Cap's already shown that he will go against 'orders' to do what he thinks is right. He did it in First Avenger, he did it in Winter Soldier... and as has been mentioned, the MCU has set up that Steve has tried to work with the government, with SHIELD and found it corrupted from deep withing for decades. These overseers are the same crew that sent a nuke to Manhattan thinking it would stop the invasion. (It wouldn't have... it just would have blown up New York and the only ones left would have been Hulk, Thor and Loki... probably. Maybe the Chitauri, too.)

 

I think Bucky's being set up by the actual bad guys in this movie. The whole firing the gun in Tony's face? I don't know... I'll have to see. It doesn't look good, sure, but that's the whole point of the trailers... to get you wondering, questioning, debating...

 

It's working.

[fireice13]

I think Bucky's being set up because based on what we know about Infinity Wars and actor contracts it seems very likely that Bucky will become an Avenger and it's possible he'll become the new Cap. That means they have one movie (Civil War) to redeem him because Infinity Wars is so big and has so many characters that I don't think they'd be able to establish everything they need to in order to fully integrate Bucky; he needs to already be integrated or on his way. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by fireice13

[Emily Thrace]

Again, we have no idea the context of that line.

 

I could see a scenario where Bucky blows up UN while under Winter Solider programming. Fictional Evil MCU Country X sends a hit squad after Bucky under the pretext of revenge, but really to cover their role in the terrorist attack. Meanwhile the US, UK, and other allied countries say, "We have to bring this guy in to stand trial and answer questions about why he did this horrible thing and who else might have been involved."

 

In a situation like that, I think it's very reasonable that TeamIronMan is working with people who they believe will treat Bucky fairly, while also believing that he's currently too dangerous to be allowed to run free and that at the same time there is a third faction out there looking to eliminate him, and that Team Cap doesn't know who they can trust.

 

Steve has shown that he literally values Bucky more than his own life, that he'd rather risk Bucky straight up beating him to death (and then running free in the world as a dangerous, mentally damaged killer) than fight back, but somehow Tony and Natasha are the ones who are carrying out some sort of personal issue with Bucky?..

 

I think it that Tony is chasing Bucky because he killed his parents actually. It makes a lot more sense than Tony Stark rebel with or without a cause suddenly going all rules lawyer. Like Black Panther Tony would be out for revenge. War Machine and Vision are just following Tony. I can understand why this team would go after Bucky.

 

On the other hand why would Hawkeye haul himself out of retirement to help Steve's lost cause? Why would Ant Man? Or Spidey? Their actions only make sense if there's a moral stance or stake involved that is bigger than Bucky. Something bigger than just a trial. A trial would just mean Bucky get off in a few months no one would be backing Steve if that was the case. Or even if it was just a matter of getting him away from a rogue government (Although I think your explanation is overly convoluted). The idea that all Steve is running from is some UN justice doesn't make sense for Steve or anyone else in the movie.

 

What does make sense is General Asshat convincing Tony to go along with his plan to capture Bucky by playing on his daddy issues while failing to mention he has his own agenda. Whether that's simply controlling the Winter Soldier or the Avengers as whole via the Sokovia Accords.

 

Its also possible Scarlett Witch loses control and blows up the UN since that's partly how the civil war started in the comics.

 

I actually really hope Sebastian Stan gets a chance to play Captain American considering the original reason for rejecting him was rather asinine. Apparently TPTB decided Stan was "not American" enough to play Steve Rogers, because hes a naturalized US citizen who moved to the states when he was twelve. I mean I could see making that argument for someone like Ryan Reynolds whose Canadian and moved to the US as an adult but in Stan's case its kinda gross. Its splitting a hair that doesn't need to be split.  Especially given all the anti-immigrant rhetoric going around lately.

[Perfect Xero]

I think it that Tony is chasing Bucky because he killed his parents actually. It makes a lot more sense than Tony Stark rebel with or without a cause suddenly going all rules lawyer. Like Black Panther Tony would be out for revenge. War Machine and Vision are just following Tony. I can understand why this team would go after Bucky.

 

So Vision (who was worthy of lifting Thor's hammer), Rhodey, and Natasha are just blindly following Tony and T'Challa on a revenge quest, but the people on Steve's side must have a good reason and be thinking for themselves? I certainly hope the writing isn't that unbalanced and out of character.

 

Its also possible Scarlett Witch loses control and blows up the UN since that's partly how the civil war started in the comics.

 

There was an explosion in the comics (at a school) that set the Registration Act in to motion, but it didn't involve the Scarlet Witch, losing control, or the UN.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[benteen]

If the Registration Act is the way it is in the comics, then I can see why people like Ant-Man, Spider-Man and Hawkeye are on Cap’s side.

[Bruinsfan]

I would imagine Colonel Rhodes is doing whatever the US government orders him to do, as that's actually IN character for him.