A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Cloud9Shopper]

8 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Why on EARTH would they ask for a personality test?  I didn't even think that was legal.

I really don’t think it should be…

The job asking for the Wonderlic test was that of an HR coordinator, and part of the job included monitoring the attendance line for employee call-offs and ordering flowers when an employee had a death in the family. You really need an off-the-charts IQ for that?!

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Why on EARTH would they ask for a personality test?  I didn't even think that was legal.

Many companies have an assessment requirement during the interview process. The goal is to screen for personality fit, critical thinking, logic, and reasoning skills, sometimes the goal is to ensure the person is qualified to do the job they are applying for with questions directly related to the type of work they will be doing, and other times they are a huge joke. But in the States, they are not illegal, and the personality fit one is pretty easy to game. Just pick the answers that best align with the type of job you'll be doing. If you're part of a team the answers should be teamwork centric. If you're a leader they should display that, etc... and if you do your homework on the company you can get a feel for the vibe and if they are trying to screen out people who are too passive, or too outspoken.

I'm not a fan but they are a part of the process for the positions I was applying to so I chose to go with the flow. 

https://resources.biginterview.com/interviews-101/personality-tests/

Edited May 5, 2023 by theredhead77

[Cloud9Shopper]

The only assessments I’m willing to take are those that actually test job skills. I took a short one-hour assessment for an editing role where I had to edit a Word document using track changes. That was reasonable to me. Having to click a bunch of “strongly agree” or “strongly disagree” buttons is a waste of my time, although I went with it while I was out of work since I had nothing else to do anyway.

Now that I’m employed again, personality tests are a hard pass. I may miss out on some things but 🤷‍♀️. The job I work at now didn’t use them and everyone works together just fine and no one comes off like they can’t think or don’t have “reasoning skills.” 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Bastet]

Yeah, they're not part of my world, but if I ever was interested in a position that required a personality test, I'd pass.  (And I never ask candidates to take one; they're bullshit even if people give honest answers.)  One of their primary uses is to weed out introverts, based on a complete misunderstanding of what being introverted means in the first place.  As a rational person, this annoys me, and as an introvert I will have nothing to do with it, on either end of the hiring process.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Same. It’s just a way for employers to be lazy and not actually get to know people. Skip the personality test and do a phone screen and actually talk to the people you might want to hire.

Finding employment has gotten more and more messed up in recent years with extensive interviews for every level of role and all these assessments. The processes I went through prior to the pandemic were pretty cut and dry but now it seems like everyone wants one-hour long+ interviews with multiple people, assessments, and anywhere from 3-5 rounds of interviews. It used to be that the only people with such intense interview requirements were those going for higher-level roles. Now it’s somehow been decided that even an entry-level person needs to meet 6-8 people before being hired. 

[Moose135]

I'm not a fan of those assessment either, but when I was looking for a new position in 2021 (my contract role was ending) I would take some of them if they didn't seem too egregious. I had applied to one position, and almost dropped out when I got the email about taking an assessment, but I figured 'what the hell, I don't have anything better to do.'

I've been with that company almost 18 months - I enjoy what I do, it's a good company, great people, decent comp, great benefits. You never know...

Edited May 5, 2023 by Moose135

[JTMacc99]

I found what I want to do when my current job comes to an end.

I want to be the guy who operates a thrill ride at an amusement park, and do what this guy does:

 

[ginger90]

It was easy when I first entered the workforce (healthcare). The pre employment tests were so easy because at that time, most of the, “what would you do in this situation “ questions were simply answered, report it to my supervisor! 🤣🤣

[Bethany]

23 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

It was easy when I first entered the workforce (healthcare). The pre employment tests were so easy because at that time, most of the, “what would you do in this situation “ questions were simply answered, report it to my supervisor!

Same was true in library work as well!  I remember being on the other side of the hiring table and seeing answers to one of those questions and wondering what kind of power these people thought they were going to have in their entry level position!  

[SuprSuprElevated]

Sort of disgusting, but funny too, lol.

[Moose135]

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

Have you seen the Empire's HR lady Instagram? Hilarious.

Edited May 8, 2023 by theredhead77

[Cloud9Shopper]

Sent my resume to a well-known law firm in my area and got a response from the hiring manager that she’d be back in touch soon. Hopefully “soon” means “to schedule an interview” but job hunting is so wild anymore that I’m not counting on anything and realize that “soon” could also mean “I may get back to you to say thanks but no thanks.” Crossing my fingers, though, because I really enjoy the legal field and would love to get back in with another firm. 

[theredhead77]

HR lady for the Empire

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cr1NVKEpV5Q/?hl=en

Edited May 8, 2023 by theredhead77

[theredhead77]

On 3/25/2023 at 10:11 AM, theredhead77 said:

Finished week 2 of my new job and I still love it. It's an adjustment going from no meetings to a wall of meetings. I already have a small gripe and it's the poor meeting culture this organization has.

I forgot how much I despise

• People that book meetings over lunch when there are other times and it isn't critical.
• People who book meetings when you are blocked out.
• Meetings without agendas.

I'm being the change I want to see by proposing new times when it's a small group and working with my direct coworker to start writing agendas for our meetings. My new manager has expressed the same feelings about meetings and I have her support.

Other than that, things are great. Everyone is so nice. I feel wanted and needed and they are eager to get me up-to-speed but won't be setting me loose before I am ready. I not only have to learn about the company, but I also have to learn about the industry.

Quoting myself here - I'm just finishing up my second month (can you believe it?!). I'm learning a lot, and finally beginning to feel like I'm contributing. Not much, but I can finally see everything coming together. Our company does mid-year reviews so my boss had one with me, even though it was only a few weeks. Everyone is super happy with me, and my progress. That was a relief because I have been feeling perpetually confused, and useless.

I already had an impact on meeting culture within our own department. We're seeing updated agendas, canceled meetings when there is nothing to talk about, wrapped-up meetings when the topics are covered, a reduction of meetings booked over lunch, and trying to prevent meetings from being hijacked. People have noticed and I'm gaining support. Others have tried, and I may be the first to succeed (even a little).

I've also been reminded that no matter where you go, corporate BS is corporate BS. People at my last company liked to say "It's the [company way]" and at this company, they say something similar about the exact same issues. I like to think of it being "the corporate America way" (I've never worked outside of the States, it could be a global thing for all I know).

We had a department happy hour and people told me they were glad I came. My last job was fine, but there was no real connection outside of work (pre-COVID). In CA there were more things, but I forgot how much I missed it. I forgot what it was like to work in a truly supportive environment. To not just be included, but to be wanted. 

I don't think I struggled to find a new job for those 3 years just to find this one. But I'm sure glad I saw this one pop up when it did and trusted my gut that I wanted to get in with this company.

Edited May 12, 2023 by theredhead77

[chocolatine]

I'm so happy that things are going well at your job, @theredhead77!

3 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I've also been reminded that no matter where you go, corporate BS is corporate BS.

That's true. I love my job 90% of the time, but this week I had to sit through a three-day-long leadership "offsite" via Zoom. It was led by two consultants who used every cliche, platitude, and "inspirational" quote known to corporate America. The only thing that saved it for me was a couple of other coworkers starting a private Slack chat to snark about it. I laughed so hard at times that I had to turn my Zoom camera off.

Edited May 12, 2023 by chocolatine

[GHScorpiosRule]

I miss my little "desktop" computer. My firm is transitioning to have everyone use laptops. I got mine last week. I hate it. Constantly having to toggle between my calendar and inbox, and having to always go to the "folder" view after I've reviewed my calendar or adding deadlines.

And a whole other sorts of tasks that I can't mention. But I hate the laptop. I want my desktop back!

Yes, First World Problems Whining going on here...

Just ignore me.

[Bastet]

I will only use laptops that have a port replicator available for that model (so it's always something from the Dell business line) and I fear the day when those go the way of the dodo.  A laptop is great in that I can use it elsewhere, but there's no way I'm tapping away on that tiny keyboard, staring at that tiny screen, using that touchpad mouse, etc. on a daily basis.  So I want an external everything, but without having to unhook the monitor, keyboard, mouse, scanner, printer, and speakers every time I want to take the laptop somewhere (and then hook it all back up).  With a port replicator, everything is hooked into that, and I simply dock and undock the laptop -- once the replicator is set up, I never touch a cord again.  So I effectively have a desktop at home (which is also where my office is) and a laptop on the road, all in one tidy set-up.

They do make docking stations, and hopefully if nothing else those will continue to be made, but a model-specific port replicator is even better.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Bastet

[GHScorpiosRule]

29 minutes ago, Bastet said:

A laptop is great in that I can use it elsewhere, but there's no way I'm tapping away on that tiny keyboard, staring at that tiny screen, using that touchpad mouse, etc. on a daily basis.  So I want an external everything, but without having to unhook the monitor, keyboard, mouse, scanner, printer, and speakers every time I want to take the laptop somewhere

PREACH! I have myself a wireless keyboard and mouse, and insert that little doohickie in one of the ports; got myself a monitor extender for when I go to to trial at the end of this week to use when I'm in the hotel; the IN office will provide me with the dual monitors when we're in the office.

I've got them at home (given when we worked remote during the pandemic and the days I still work remote). And yes, I have the small docking station, but I still have to hook up the power cord and cords to the monitors to it!

IT says it's an Outlook issue, not my wireless mouse, but ever since getting the laptop, whenever I respond to an email, my wireless mouse doesn't want to go to the "send" button. I have to hover over that untitled email in the task bar, and when it pops up on my screen, THEN I can click on the send. It's aggravating.

[partofme]

I am so grateful my department still lets us WFH five days a week.  I don't ever want to work in an office again!

[PRgal]

@GHScorpiosRule By no means am I an IT expert, but could your issue be a Bluetooth thing?  Have you turned it on and off?  My wireless mouse stopped scrolling a few times and it was fixed only after turning it of and then back on.

[EtheltoTillie]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I will only use laptops that have a port replicator available for that model (so it's always something from the Dell business line) and I fear the day when those go the way of the dodo.  A laptop is great in that I can use it elsewhere, but there's no way I'm tapping away on that tiny keyboard, staring at that tiny screen, using that touchpad mouse, etc. on a daily basis.  So I want an external everything, but without having to unhook the monitor, keyboard, mouse, scanner, printer, and speakers every time I want to take the laptop somewhere (and then hook it all back up).  With a port replicator, everything is hooked into that, and I simply dock and undock the laptop -- once the replicator is set up, I never touch a cord again.  So I effectively have a desktop at home (which is also where my office is) and a laptop on the road, all in one tidy set-up.

They do make docking stations, and hopefully if nothing else those will continue to be made, but a model-specific port replicator is even better.

I'm with you here.  I'm a real Luddite about this if one can use Luddite to describe someone who prefers a desktop over any laptop.  I have an  inexpensive laptop in case I need it for traveling, but I rarely use it.  I cannot use a touchpad at all.  It's like my handicap with learning to drive a stick shift.  I just never really got comfortable with it.  So I have to use a mouse.

If I had to use the laptop at home, I'd do that port thing you are describing.  Fortunately, I work for myself so I can choose my equipment.  I have a full size Dell in my office, same at home and same at my second home.  My husband has the same.  We're running Windows 11 on all of these 

Oh, yeah, we have real old-school tower units--none of those weird computers where the processor is built in to the screen.  These were all purchased last year to upgrade from old computers.  We love them! 

[Bastet]

19 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

If I had to use the laptop at home, I'd do that port thing you are describing.  Fortunately, I work for myself so I can choose my equipment. 

Oh, I did choose it.  I like using a laptop with a port replicator because it gives me all the functionality of a desktop (I'm using external keyboard, monitor, mouse, etc; the laptop is simply serving as my hard drive, processor, etc. - I'm not touching it) and then I can just undock the laptop (push of a button, not removing all those cables, as they're hooked into the replicator) and take it with me rather than having a separate one I'd have to sync content on.  I haven't had a traditional desktop since the late '90s.

When I was doing internships while in law school, I had to work on whatever equipment the organization had, which was typically an old desktop (these were non-profits) -- I loved it, and the whippersnappers ten years younger than me were befuddled.  One summer I worked someplace where we all worked on laptops and didn't have our own spaces; there would be four of us sharing a conference table.  So I had to work on the laptop itself the entire summer.  I did hook up an external mouse, but that was it.  Drove me nuts.

Even when I'm just working for a day at my parents' house instead of at home, I will only use my laptop for certain small things -- to type a document, I go use one of their desktops.

4 hours ago, partofme said:

I am so grateful my department still lets us WFH five days a week.  I don't ever want to work in an office again!

Same here.  I've been working from home most of the time for nearly ten years now, full time for the past five or so.  I don't ever want to go back!

[GHScorpiosRule]

59 minutes ago, PRgal said:

@GHScorpiosRule By no means am I an IT expert, but could your issue be a Bluetooth thing?  Have you turned it on and off?  My wireless mouse stopped scrolling a few times and it was fixed only after turning it of and then back on.

Nope. Not a Bluetooth issue.

[chocolatine]

We had a company all-hands meeting today. The head of HR was presenting some slides about employee demographics, and instead of "women" he wrote "womxn." Kill me now.

[SuprSuprElevated]

10 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

We had a company all-hands meeting today. The head of HR was presenting some slides about employee demographics, and instead of "women" he wrote "womxn." Kill me now.

😏 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

We had a company all-hands meeting today. The head of HR was presenting some slides about employee demographics, and instead of "women" he wrote "womxn." Kill me now.

I thought no one was using that anymore.  I'd rather see "pregnant people" than "womxn."  I hope people snickered.

Edited May 17, 2023 by PRgal

[chocolatine]

7 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I thought no one was using that anymore.  I'd rather see "pregnant people" than "womxn."  I hope people snickered.

It was a Zoom webinar style meeting, so I can't tell how many people snickered. 

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

We had a company all-hands meeting today. The head of HR was presenting some slides about employee demographics, and instead of "women" he wrote "womxn." Kill me now.

Was the HR director presenting a metric of how much your US demographics differ from the DEI benchmark at the time.  Ours did that a few months after outsourcing the most diverse departments and creating a massive turnover problem.  

I refer to this HR director as "the one that understands neither math or human nature".  I dubbed her that after she rolled out our idiotic compensation program shortly after joining the company.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

Was the HR director presenting a metric of how much your US demographics differ from the DEI benchmark at the time.  Ours did that a few months after outsourcing the most diverse departments and creating a massive turnover problem.  

I refer to this HR director as "the one that understands neither math or human nature".  I dubbed her that after she rolled out our idiotic compensation program shortly after joining the company.

It was to show the distribution of promotions by demographic. It felt a little defensive in a "we promoted employees from all demographics equally, so don't come at me with any accusations of discrimination" sort of way.

We also had a head of compensation who couldn't do math and rolled out a ridiculous compensation program. Thankfully, several directors (including me) banded together and presented data to our C-suite that got the program nixed. The head of comp left shortly after that.

Edited May 17, 2023 by chocolatine

[chocolatine]

Update on the "womxn" saga: after several people complained, the head of HR apologized and said it was supposed to be "women" but then also claimed that "womxn" is a term that has been used "organically" at our company. That's complete BS - the term has never been used in the 2+ years that I've been working there, and he only joined a few months ago, so he wouldn't know either way. Just admit that you screwed up and move on.

[PRgal]

18 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Update on the "womxn" saga: after several people complained, the head of HR apologized and said it was supposed to be "women" but then also claimed that "womxn" is a term that has been used "organically" at our company. That's complete BS - the term has never been used in the 2+ years that I've been working there, and he only joined a few months ago, so he wouldn't know either way. Just admit that you screwed up and move on.

Probably someone who didn’t like him told him to use it just to see whether people would complain about him! 

[Jaded]

Came across this today apparently it's an older article on Bored Panda that was recently updated.

35 Times Bosses Wrote Such Delusional Notes, These Employees Just Had To Shame Them Online

[Annber03]

That's a good list to pay attention to so you can avoid working at any of those "jobs". Holy shit.

(Seriously, echoing the article, the hell IS a "funeral note"? Who even signs one of those?)

[EtheltoTillie]

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That's a good list to pay attention to so you can avoid working at any of those "jobs". Holy shit.

(Seriously, echoing the article, the hell IS a "funeral note"? Who even signs one of those?)

I represented someone once at an unemployment insurance hearing.  Among other things, they complained they thought she had lied about attending her grandmother's funeral.  We produced a program.  Most places would not be so callous. 

[EtheltoTillie]

There was more to the unemployment insurance story, it comes back to me now.  The funeral was out of town, so they wanted her to produce plane tickets or something.  This was a really long time ago.  But it's memorable because it was my first case ever!   I was in a law school clinic to help people with unemployment insurance claims.  We did win.

You really have to hate someone to oppose their unemployment insurance claim.  That was true in this case.  The employer just didn't like this person.

The system is designed to pay the fired employee with almost no exceptions.  E.g., voluntary quit, or true misconduct.  Taking a day off for a funeral would not qualify. 

[DearEvette]

The petty is so big in our office. I love us. 

Today marks the 10th year anniversary of the date my previous boss was fired resigned. One of my co-workers who despised the ex-boss the absolute most (we'll call the ex-boss Joel) starting posting a bunch of unexplained celebratory gifs on our office Teams 'fun and chat' channel and on his Facebook today. 

At first we were confused but then I noticed that these gifs were the exact same ones we all began posting on our Facebook 10 years ago on this day without explanation or context.  Back then none of our Facebook friends understood why we were all doing it either at the time because that day we got the word internally that Joel would be 'resigning' but  it hadn't yet been announced publicly. And quite a few of our Facebook shared friends all worked at the same University we did so we couldn't really say why we were so happy yet.  But it was our passive-aggressive way of relating out delight. Also we all gathered in my office while Joel was down in HR negotiating his severance and drank from my stash of airline flight sized collection of booze.

So some back story:

Joel was a tower of incompetence.  He was hand picked by the then Provost to be the director in my division which was enrollment management and enrollment analytics.  Oh they had a sham of a search, but it didn't take us long (and some whispers) to know the fix was in.

While he had worked in Higher ed before, he had never been at a director level before where he was the one who made the final decisions or had to sit committees with faculty and deans. 

But within months it became clear he was in over his head.  He could barely answer questions at faculty meetings (always saying things like 'I'll look into that' or 'I'll get back to you on that.') So he began to get the reputation as a bit of a joke. But he was protected by the Provost who at the time was popular and powerful.

Since Joel knew he was not well received, he began to take out some of his frustration on those of us in the office.  He was the director and he only had two direct reports: Me (as Systems Manager) and another woman "Jean" (as Operations Manager).  The rest of the staff reported top us.  I had my systems team, and everyone else reported to Jean.

He would make arbitrary rules, he'd sometimes single one person out to disdain in a staff meeting.  It was a lot of little uncomfortable things.  He was just a despot. But despite numerous HR complaints he never quite stepped over the line into something that was really actionable.  One HR rep told Me and Jean that unless there was sexual harrassment or racial discrimination there really wasn't much they could do since was just being an asshole to his staff.  His incompetence wasn't costing the school any money or creating any PR disaster.

He largely left me and Jean alone and that was mainly because we were saving his ass.  It became and open secret that to get anything done in our office they had to go around him and get one of us to do the thing. Also he would pre-game his meetings with faculty with Jean and I.  He'd come with a list of questions they'd most likely ask and get our responses, he'd write them down and that is what he used as notes for his meetings.

It was a horrible 5 years.

But then there came a change up top. New President.  The Provost had gotten on the outs with the new guy and the faculty was losing confidence in her. She left before they could vote no confidence and suddenly Joel lost his protection.

The new interim Provost was this long-timer Dept. Chair who hated Joel.  He made the case to the new President that Joel was an idiot.  Joel was given an offer to be demoted (he would have been at a level under Jean and Me)  under the guise of a division restructuring or resign. He chose to resign. 

The HR person who had been our confidante in misery hot footed it up to our floor 10 years ago today, walked into the office suite I shared with Jean, shut the door and said 'You didn't hear this from me but...."

Our faces!  I bit my knuckles the whole time she was dishing to not scream in joy.   After she left we went to our co-workers and did a 'Psst, come into my office in 5 minutes.. have a student worker cover the phones..' 

We did a quick 10 minute happy dance, booze toast and went back to work.  And my one co-worker who had been Joel's biggest target, began to post celebratory gifs on his facebook one by one all day long. 

Also, when Joel called a full staff meeting the next day to regretfully tell of his resignation, we acted so very faux surprised. 

It was great.

[magicdog]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:09 AM, DearEvette said:

Today marks the 10th year anniversary of the date my previous boss was fired resigned.

Loved your story!!  I keep hoping Bitcheroo will get caught and get tossed out with the trash, but I'm not lucky enough for that.  When she does go, believe me, those of us who are in the know about her treachery will have one helluva celebratory! 

I had an interesting week myself.  Our long time senior weatherman "T" was moved from his 10pm weather reports and was christened (according to the News Director's email) "Captain T - who will master drone duties from now on." 

T bought a drone a couple years back and it's been very useful to the station (many viewers think the video we get from it is a helicopter!) getting us great aerial shots of various landmarks, etc. .  However, I have a hunch this is the beginning of the end for him because there is already other weather people with us who are younger and work cheaper than he does.  I wouldn't be surprised if a dump wasn't in the works.  His own wife (they met when he was doing weather and she was a morning anchor) was dumped for a younger version several years back (I was told that she took it pretty rough - crying her eyes out!) only for THAT woman to get dumped for a DUI she got a few months later (morals clause).  She bounced back though and works for the Chamber of Commerce.

 

We also lost our morning weather girl, C.  She was a nice person and worked for us for almost 10 years.  She wanted to spend more normal hours by getting a job more in synch with that of her husband and 6 year old daughter.  Can't blame her for that.  SHe'll be the new PR flack for a local hospital.

Meanwhile, I was kept super busy today!  Part of it was due to it being Friday - which is the day our show wants to announce all the acts coming in for the weekend (EDC, Santana, etc.) and that means downloading a lot of video and formatting them for the report.  We also have a Pet Files which is the pet project of one of our morning anchors, J.  We used to play various viral videos of animals doing silly stuff, but when that became verboten, J gets local viewers to submit video and he thrown in some comedy.  Today was a special package he wanted.  He found this on the Tennessee Titan's Twitter page so he wanted to emulate it with animals and include when the LV Raiders would be battling other teams next season.  I was tasked to get the videos, get a bunch of stills of logos of the other teams (13 weeks worth!) and put them into a cohesive package with royalty free music!  That took a while but the end product came out well! 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Still no luck on the job hunt. 😢I guess I need to work harder on my resume or write better cover letters. 

In the meantime, I took a career assessment my counselor sent me. The jobs suggested to me were honestly jobs/fields I had already been considering (lawyer, event planner, health data manager, college student affairs, etc.) so it’s good to know I am somewhat on the right track. I’m trying to decide if it would be better for my future to make a total career overhaul and do something like law school or health information management that would bring better job opportunities and salaries (although with HIM I would be starting from scratch because my original degree is in communications) or if I should lean more towards something that would make use of my customer service background but get me out of the call center. I more enjoy seeing people face to face and knowing their names, getting to know them if I see them regularly, versus waiting on the phone to ring. There is an opening for a financial aid counselor at a college that I’m going to apply to. Law would also be a natural transition since I have worked in two firms and my current job is somewhat related to the field.

It’s a tough choice but I’m going to try and take my time and think about it. Although I did laugh that one of my suggested careers was counseling! You all know I can barely keep my own life together and yet it’s being suggested that I help others with their problems.  

 

[EtheltoTillie]

Law school brings better salaries for some . . . and not for many.  Investigate this very carefully, especially as a career changer, because that is what I was.  You have fewer years to make it pay off. 

I would not advise anyone to borrow money to go to law school in this climate and at the outrageous price of tuition today.  It would be more risky for an older student.  It is now more expensive than ever and takes three years.  It would be a big gamble for someone in your financial position.  I graduated at 40, and I haven't made a huge financial success of it for a variety of reasons, including my own serious illness.  But I did not have to borrow money for school, as we could afford for me not to work and for my husband to pay for tuition.  I have excellent health insurance through my husband's position in a hospital. 

I have a public interest law practice where I feel good about helping the disabled and elderly people who are my clients.  I like practicing law, unlike many people who are in different types of jobs.  My colleagues in the public interest world like what they do.

There are ways to do it without borrowing money:  Some people who get a high LSAT score will be offered free tuition at a "less prestigious" law school.   Even I was offered that, and I had sucky grades from college (I was a fuck-off in my youth).  I ended up going to a "better" school, as we could pay for it, but it wasn't a "top" school, which might have made a difference in my job prospects.  At today's prices, I would take the free tuition.  You can go to a night program, which takes four years, but you can work during the day.  I know people who have done this.  It's hard work, but they had to borrow less or no money.  You can possibly get loan forgiveness if you work in a public interest (lower paying) job after graduation--but that is the risk of borrowing $200,000 or more.  I know some people who have had their companies or law firms pay for their schooling, but that is unusual.  One was a scientist who got a job as a paralegal.  They paid for him to go to a night program and then he became a patent lawyer at that firm.

Don't become a lawyer unless you really want to be a lawyer.  Don't do it because you think it will pay a lot.  That is a big risk. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[ABay]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Don't become a lawyer unless you really want to be a lawyer. 

Amen. Or unless you have an idea of what else you'll be needing it for, like law librarian, journalist reporting on courts, or some occupation that you're already in or interested in where the degree will enhance your CV. Law school is a slog, especially if you're not really interested in it.

[PRgal]

@Cloud9Shopper:  What industry were you in before?  Are you considering switching?  

[EtheltoTillie]

I realize I should add something more about financial aid for law school. I don’t know how much aid people get that is income based, because I would not have qualified and didn’t apply.  I’m not an expert on this but my understanding is it’s not all that generous, and they just expect you will borrow. It’s not the same formulas as undergraduate education. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

12 minutes ago, PRgal said:

@Cloud9Shopper:  What industry were you in before?  Are you considering switching?  

I worked as a talent acquisition coordinator (in the legal field no less) prior to being laid off. Unfortunately I was only in the role for four months so I cannot get a new such role or in HR since those fields prefer experience. :(  I wanted to continue in TA coordination but so many TA people have been laid off and are applying that I can’t even get an interview since I was a relative newbie. 

I definitely do not want to go to law school if I don’t get good money to go. I know there are other paths I could be successful in with less expensive or no additional schooling. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:04 PM, Jaded said:

Came across this today apparently it's an older article on Bored Panda that was recently updated.

35 Times Bosses Wrote Such Delusional Notes, These Employees Just Had To Shame Them Online

I didn't think some of them were all that unreasonable.  Like the one that doesn't allow personal phone use while at work.  I remember when people first started having cell phones and would get calls at work on them.  Nothing screamed "this is a personal call" louder than a cell phone ringing. 

Of course, I come from a time when I worked as a file clerk, and for the 8 of us file clerks there was one phone for us to use, sitting on a desk over away from our desks.  

Something else that kept running through my mind when reading that site was a place I do mystery shopping for.  One of the things they do is have the shopper order in a way to give the employee the opportunity to offer fries and/or a drink.  So it's obviously important to the company, but the employees don't always do it, and I just can't understand why not.

Why isn't "fries and a drink?" the first thing to come out of their mouths when the customer orders?  Instead, all too often they'll say, "Anything else?" or just look at me.  I just don't understand why someone wouldn't do it.  The requirement is clear and unambiguous and easily satisfied, but there are still employees who don't comply.  If I had that job I'd say "fries and a drink?" like I had Tourette Syndrome. 

I just can't imagine being their manager and saying for the umpteenth time, "Every time a person orders, offer them fries and a drink."  And then getting a mystery shop report that says they didn't do it.

As for the site itself, I'll point out that one of the "delusional notes" is a sign that comes from signs4fun.com.  I highly doubt it is policy for any company.

https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/645c89d48a840_qu50gxbdjzx91__700.jpg

[PRgal]

4 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I worked as a talent acquisition coordinator (in the legal field no less) prior to being laid off. Unfortunately I was only in the role for four months so I cannot get a new such role or in HR since those fields prefer experience. :(  I wanted to continue in TA coordination but so many TA people have been laid off and are applying that I can’t even get an interview since I was a relative newbie. 

I definitely do not want to go to law school if I don’t get good money to go. I know there are other paths I could be successful in with less expensive or no additional schooling. 

Have you thought of starting your own business/doing freelance work?  You could list yourself on Fivrr or something.

[EtheltoTillie]

I know that I’m just too old now.  Hiring/ personnel is now called Talent Acquisition?  To me talent should be reserved for entertainment positions. How did this get started. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I know that I’m just too old now.  Hiring/ personnel is now called Talent Acquisition?  To me talent should be reserved for entertainment positions. How did this get started. 

It is. My mom and I were watching the movie The Intern a while ago (it’s a fun movie BTW) and she commented on it as well. No idea why the name changed though. 

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

. 

Of course, I come from a time when I worked as a file clerk, and for the 8 of us file clerks there was one phone for us to use, sitting on a desk over away from our desks. 

I just can't imagine being their manager and saying for the umpteenth time, "Every time a person orders, offer them fries and a drink."  And then getting a mystery shop report that says they didn't do it.

 

File clerk isn’t even a job anymore, is it?  I remember when it was. I still need someone to file things. But it’s not a full time task in my office.

I can imagine being that manager, because I am that manager. I have a part time paralegal/assistant who is limited in remembering certain things. I assign him tasks that I know he can do. Why do I keep him on?  I can’t get anyone else—I have written about this before. And he is trustworthy. We went to high school together (we are now 68), and he could no longer work as a lawyer. He had also been working part time at Bed Bath and Beyond, until his branch closed three weeks ago. Even there he was kept on despite being unable to do certain things. He failed at the cashier position, but he was able to work on the floor helping people find things. He was kept on for years because in the same way it is hard for companies big and small to retain workers. 
 

BBB’s loss was my gain as I needed my assistant to help with a big legal filing in the last two weeks and he had more time available.  Whatever he was able to do was a big help to me even though I had to remind him of various things.  

Edited May 20, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[Bastet]

Seconding the recommendation to think very carefully about going to law school in order to become a lawyer as a second (or third, or fourth) career unless you WANT to be a lawyer, and have some idea of the kind of law you'd like to practice. 

I did it as a second career, entering law school at 30.  It was incredibly tiring at that age; I passed out on the couch before 8:00 every Friday night (when my normal bedtime is around midnight) my entire first year (which is the hardest; it weeds people out, and it really sucks to have paid a semester or two's tuition before realizing this is not for you and you need to start over again with something else).  It's a big time and mental commitment, and then if you have financial commitment on top of that (luckily, I did not; I had plenty of savings to live on while taking those three years to go to school full time rather than work - I did my summer internships for course credit rather than pay - and my parents gave me the money to cover the tuition not covered by my scholarships [by the end, I had no tuition due; I did very well and kept gaining additional academic scholarships]), it is a huge undertaking on every level.

I work in civil rights law, for a non-profit -- it's what I went to law school to do, and I knew I was in a financial position from my previous career and lack of student loan debt (the first or second time around) to go that low-paying route in order to do something I'm passionate about (and have my work/life balance respected in a way that does not happen in most law firms).

Law school is just plain tough.  I'm one of those people who had to put in almost no effort to sail through high school and not a ton of effort even at a great university to graduate with honors, and I had to work my ass off in law school (and I was not at a top-tier school).  It was the happiest I'd ever been, though, because it was a great fit for me and I was on my way to finally doing what I was most passionate about.  But to have gone through that just because I was looking for a career with more options and better salaries, I can't imagine.  If you're just looking to make a good living at something you don't hate, law seems an unnecessarily lengthy and difficult - and potentially costly - path without a passion for it, especially at your age.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Bastet