S03.E07: Digestivo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So the only way Margo can get anything through a child is if they keep Mason's death a secret for the time being.

Ha, I can imagine Margot and Alana's wide eyed innocent story already: "Mason was so excited about the pregnancy that he and Cordell left on a trip. He said they were going to buy only the most expensive handmade crib from a master wood craftsman and that he would have to personally supervise the entire process. Haven't seen him for months!"

[Nutjob]

But...but... what happened to the poor mama pig?

 

If they do keep Mason's death a secret, they can't frame Hannibal for the murder or they'll give away the timing. I'm not sure exactly how they'll work around that, to be honest.

[lulee]

But...but... what happened to the poor mama pig?

If they do keep Mason's death a secret, they can't frame Hannibal for the murder or they'll give away the timing. I'm not sure exactly how they'll work around that, to be honest.

Hmm, good point, Nutjob.

[Pixel]

If they do keep Mason's death a secret, they can't frame Hannibal for the murder or they'll give away the timing. I'm not sure exactly how they'll work around that, to be honest.

Not necessarily. If he's missing until someone turns up pregnant, and then his body is discovered, they could still tie it back to Hannibal. Lots of people are considered missing for months or years before a body is found, and they can still fairly closely figure out the approximate time/day/week of death. It could work.

[Desperately Random]

Not necessarily. If he's missing until someone turns up pregnant, and then his body is discovered, they could still tie it back to Hannibal. Lots of people are considered missing for months or years before a body is found, and they can still fairly closely figure out the approximate time/day/week of death. It could work.

That could definitely work. Get rid of Cordell's body and you can say that maybe Mason left with Cordell. Wrap Mason up and stick him in the freezer or in the attic. Somewhere he won't be "discovered" for a few months. Hannibal won't deny it was him and they still have his hair to plant on the body.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Desperately Random

[Texasmom1970]

Seeing Hannibal carry Will back home aww, he really does love him. I hope Chiyo has walked off into the darkness to never return. I was talking to my television first saying you better not hurt Jack. Then again when she had the gun pointed toward Will and Hannibal. I told my daughter her ass better not shoot Will again! Poor Will we miss your dog's as well.

So happy to see they will be back at a crime scene I'm the next episode. Hope we get back the shoop, shoop noise where Will envisions the crime scene before everything has transpired, love that part. Sigh, gonna miss this unique, twisted, intelligent, beautifully shot show and the actors as well.

[Snookums]

That could definitely work. Get rid of Cordell's body and you can say that maybe Mason left with Cordell. Wrap Mason up and stick him in the freezer or in the attic. Somewhere he won't be "discovered" for a few months. Hannibal won't deny it was him and they still have his hair to plant on the body.

 

 

Definitely the attic. The more the body decays the more impossible it'll be to figure exact time of death. Plant him someplace, hire somebody to "discover" him after a frantic search (maybe they could say Cordell kidnapped him!) and they're golden.

[cheyz]

I think the pig incubator thing is just so out in left field it doesn't even bother me, because one of my main qualms is convicted child molester Mason thinking his punitive will would hold up against legal challenges if he's not around anymore to bribe court officials. With him out of the picture, suddenly everyone has zero inducement to continue indulging his sadistic whims and overlook all the laws he's broken, and Margo is a lot more likely to grease people's palms in gratitude than the Southern Baptist Church would be.

In the book at least, it wasn't Mason's will. The estate was entailed to only male heirs, that was why Mason had it all vs. splitting with Margo when their father died.

[Neurochick]

This episode was so interesting because they took much of it right out of the book Hannibal.  I laughed at the scene when Will was carrying Hannibal, in the book and the movie it's Clarice he's carrying.  

 

Also in the book, Margot had a girlfriend and the reason she was hanging around Mason's home was because Mason kept promising her that he'd impregnate Margot's girlfriend with his sperm; so in the book the assumption is that after Mason dies and the girlfriend becomes pregnant, that's the heir.  I was wondering if Alana would be the one to carry the heir, but I guess not.

[Crossbow]

I finally broke down and just paid to watch this on Amazon last night. I asked a Facebook friend who she thought won this round and she said, "The eel."

 

I was wondering if Alana would be the one to carry the heir, but I guess not.

 

Why not?

 

They've covered EVERYTHING that happened in the book "Hannibal" now.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Crossbow

[lulee]

In the postmortem with Caroline Dhavernas and Cathrrine Isabelle they suggested that Alana would be the surrogate. I don't think the time jump coming up is a spoiler so... I'll say that I wouldn't be surprised if the next episode has an Alana-Mason toddler.

[attica]

But...but... what happened to the poor mama pig?

 

Bacon, probably.

[Crossbow]

Jack shows up after Hannibal apparently left but infact he is still there and turns himself in. This is because he wants his ex boyfriend will to visit him in jail , also the Chinese lady had a sniper on him so she may have forced him to turn himself in.

 

Chiyo had said she didn't want Hannibal in a cage, so I don't think she meant for him to turn himself in. I don't know  what she meant. She and Hannibal talk in code.

[Captanne]

This is Fuller's definition of Chiyoh:  (Jul 18, 2015 11:00 PM EDT)

 

Is this the last we'll see of Chiyoh this season?

Fuller: Yes. She told Hannibal that she was going to be his keeper. She was always going to be that angel in the bushes with the rifle making sure that no one further was killed by him. That's the penance she's willing to pay for 20 years of keeping a prisoner out of the interest of not taking a life. In essence, she's saying to Hannibal, "I'm not going to cage you, but I'm going to serve as your jailer." But as she's watching the takedown of Hannibal, she realizes her job is done and she's free, for the first time in her life, to go off and pursue her own life.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/hannibal-postmortem-digestivo-bryan-fuller-season-3/

 

Nice of him to explain that to us in an interview because he sure as shit didn't explain it in the show.  Chiyoh is one of the most poorly drawn characters in a show I like that I have ever had the disappointment of meeting.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Captanne

[Crossbow]

This is Fuller's definition of Chiyoh:  (Jul 18, 2015 11:00 PM EDT)

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/hannibal-postmortem-digestivo-bryan-fuller-season-3/

 

Nice of him to explain that to us in an interview because he sure as shit didn't explain it in the show.  Chiyoh is one of the most poorly drawn characters in a show I like that I have ever had the disappointment of meeting.

 

Geeze. Yeah, I didn't pick up on that at ALL. Whatever, Fuller.

[Captanne]

He was spending too much time in the editing room making sure Will saw Hannibal's face in his Cream of Wheat or whatever.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Captanne

[Nutjob]

Not necessarily. If he's missing until someone turns up pregnant, and then his body is discovered, they could still tie it back to Hannibal. Lots of people are considered missing for months or years before a body is found, and they can still fairly closely figure out the approximate time/day/week of death. It could work.

I still don't think it works. Hannibal was taken into custody right after Mason's murder, and he couldn't very well murder him while he was locked up. Unless someone (Alana, possibly) gets pregnant within a few days, literally, the timing still doesn't match up.

[Helena Dax]

"20 years of keeping a prisoner"?

 

How old is she supposed to be? The actress is 30!  Did Chiyoh start to take care of Hannibal's prisioner when she was ten? And what was she doing working for Hannibal's aunt? Was she a slave or something?

[Crossbow]

"20 years of keeping a prisoner"?

 

How old is she supposed to be? The actress is 30!  Did Chiyoh start to take care of Hannibal's prisioner when she was ten? And what was she doing working for Hannibal's aunt? Was she a slave or something?

 

I think we're pretending she's a little older. If she's, say, 35, then she would have been doing it since she was 15, which would make more sense. In the book she was the same age as Hannibal, but also Hannibal was 41 in Red Dragon, so they've aged him up and her down.

 

No, she wasn't a slave; I had the impression working for Murasaki was meant to be part of Chiyo's education, since Murasaki corrects Chiyo's manners. (Murasaki's father was an ambassador and her husband was a famous artist so she's all worldly and stuff.)

On keeping Mason's death a secret: How hard can it be? Besides Margot and Alana, the only other person he spent time with was Cordell, who's dead.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Crossbow

[lulee]

On keeping Mason's death a secret: How hard can it be? Besides Margot and Alana, the only other person he spent time with was Cordell, who's dead.

And it's not like the FBI would need Mason's death to be able to lock Hannibal away.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

He was spending too much time in the editing room making sure Will saw Hannibal's face in his Cream of Wheat or whatever.

 

         This made me cackle out loud here at work.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I also never got the feeling Chiyoh decided she was Hannibal's jailer now, because when she said "some beasts should not be caged" with what seemed to be a small loving chuckle I took it as her saying "awww, Hannibal, you do awful things but you know you are special to me and I don't want you rotting in a jail and will do my best to protect you" because she also told him she would watch over him, no? The whole "she won't cage him, but she is his jailer" thing makes no sense to me because, well first of all, let's face it, Hannibal would find a zillion ways to get rid of her before he allowed her to dictate him how he is to live his life and if she knows him that well, then she should know that. And second, how is she even going to play jailer to a Hannibal running around free? Is she going to follow him around with that rifle and if he tries to kill anyone, she will what? shoot him? Err, why exactly did she throw Will off the train and then shot him in the shoulder pretty much giving Hannibal every opportunity to kill Will (so for me that is her trying to kill Will both times), if she is all for killing Hannibal to stop him from harming people now? Whatever happened to her "killing is bad" stance that made her waste her entire life waiting on the guy who had killed and eaten Mischa (as far as she knew), because she just could not let Hannibal kill that guy, because all human life is precious and all that??? Speaking of, for someone who has a "killing is bad" stance she sure killed a whole lot of people this episode and didn't seem to be affected by it one bit, rather she came of like a professional assassin.I remember them mentioning in one of the Post Mortem's that as far as Chiyoh is concerned, Will managed to effect her life in a way Hannibal couldn't (can't remember the exact wording now, but it was regarding how Will made her kill her prisoner and in doing so changed her life). Am I to assume Will "broke" her somehow and now she is rather Ok with murder ?

 

I think Chiyoh as Hannibal's guardian angel, who will protect him no matter what because of duty and connection she feels to the family etc. would have worked better as an explanation for the character and her actions where she is fundamentally against taking another human beings life and tries to live by that code, but puts Hannibal's safety and well-being above all else so will break her own "no-killing" code for his sake...

 

 

The "male Verger heir" plot also doesn't work but from what I know, that is a problem with the books, and the show was just being true to the source material on this. Even if there is some way a baby conceived after Mason's death could inherit the estate (or they could somehow hide Mason's death for a long while) who is to say they'd ever get a "male" baby?  That is why I prefer to think of it as Margot having had enough with Mason, where she is killing him even if she is not %100 sure she will be able to get the inheritance, though it is understood that she will try her damnedest to get the inheritance too.

[Crossbow]

The "male Verger heir" plot also doesn't work but from what I know, that is a problem with the books, and the show was just being true to the source material on this.

 

Yeah, I decided to just go with it. It's not even among the top 10 things that don't make sense on this show.

[Tippi Blevins]

Fuller: "She was always going to be that angel in the bushes with the rifle making sure that no one further was killed by him."

 

Yeah... that is not remotely what I got out of the scene or her role in general. Hannibal even asks her if she'd watch over him. That's a protective thing. She doesn't correct him and say she's watching over everyone else he meets. 

 

What's up with the math stuff Hannibal was writing in that notebook?

[jeansheridan]

In the books Hannibal is into time and physics. He quotes Hawkens who had a breaking teacup theory. That time could reverse and restore the teacup. Hannibal in the book wants to find a place for Misha. The Misha he keeps alive in his memory. He thinks Clarice could be his teacup. On the show it appears to be Will. So all that teacup imagery did matter. Will shattered it again. At the beginning of this season we saw it gathered up with Will's face. For a few eps he was Hannibal' s. Now he has pulled away again.

Fuller failed with Chiyoh. Oh well. So much is right. And he hired a great actor for the second half of this season, IMO.

[mledawn]

I was like Oprah with my "likes" in this episode thread. So much good conversation, thanks everyone!

[murf1013]

I was like Oprah with my "likes" in this episode thread. So much good conversation, thanks everyone!

I completely agree so let me add my thanks as well.

[Captanne]

I think it's possible that by combining his knowledge of the book "Hannibal"* and his artsy-fartsy film-school obsession, Fuller forgot the fundamental tenet of good adaptation -- don't ever assume the audience is as familiar with the source material as you are. At the expense of a coherent, independent story, the viewer here has to have a good working knowledge of the book or they are lost. Chiyoh is just the most egregious example.

[Finis Terre]

I think it's possible that by combining his knowledge of the book "Hannibal"* and his artsy-fartsy film-school obsession, Fuller forgot the fundamental tenet of good adaptation -- don't ever assume the audience is as familiar with the source material as you are. At the expense of a coherent, independent story, the viewer here has to have a good working knowledge of the book or they are lost. Chiyoh is just the most egregious example.

 

 

I disagree. The knowledge of the first two seasons is perfectly enough to enjoy season 3.

[Captanne]

To understand Chiyoh? Really? And the legal intricacies of Margot's fertility? For Hannibal's interest in in time and physics and the relationship to Mischa? Yeah, we have to disagree on that.

[murf1013]

I only read/saw/was actually familiar with Silence of the Lambs. I've seen small bits and pieces of the movies Red Dragon, Hannibal and Hannibal Rising ... but not enough to have any working knowledge of the storylines or characters. I didn't know anything about the Verger's, or that Alana was Alan. And I only knew there was a character Will Graham, but nothing beyond that.

I have had no trouble following and loving all three seasons. I've enjoyed Bryan Fuller's vision of Hannibal and his story. So much so that when I tried to watch SotL a few weeks ago ... I had to turn it off. Anthony Hopkins now feels like an imposter Hannibal. Mads Mikkelsen is now Hannibal in my head.

I hope this show continues in some fashion ... but if it doesn't, I'm glad I had the opportunity to watch 3 seasons of this amazing show.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I do agree that Season 3 was enjoyable and could be understood by TV viewers who have seen S1 & 2. I don't think Chiyoh could really be understood as Fuller intended, but then I don't think she is from the books, she is his own creation and his own failure. Knowing "The Verger will" was also in the books doesn't really add anything to it making sense, as it fails and doesn't make much sense in the books either. The show did explain Margot couldn't inherit the estate and needed a  male "Verger baby" which is why she had to put up with Mason, who she had more than enough reasons to kill over and over, so I think it gave enough to allow for one to fanwank she killed him once she could no longer stand him and thought she had a shot at securing a heir - especially as it was made apparent to her that Mason would never ever allow her any happiness or a shot at a baby of her own. He would make sure she always suffered under his hands and was never free. I think her talk with Hannibal also helped in making her realizing that, Hannibal was pretty much telling her "he is fooling you, he will always fool you into thinking he will give you what you want but he will never really let you have it" and finding the pig baby proved him right.

 

The "math stuff" doesn't make sense if one doesn't know the books (except one might think, "oh yet another hobby for Hannibal and something he excels in") but then I think it was meant to be a rather minor detail that was more like a nod to book fans than something important for the show, I think.

 

The teacup imagery , has been used consistently within the show and I think show viewers can make their own interpretations of it on what it means for Hannibal and Will, without knowing the book material. Would they connect it to Mischa and how Hannibal is looking for a place for Mischa? No. But then we don't know if show Hannibal is doing exactly that. I think for the show, the teacup is more about Will and Hannibal's relationship, and in a way what passes for a "human" connection, happiness and peace for Hannibal (which is also why Will changed him, I guess. Hannibal was all fine all alone before meeting Will, not feeling he lacked in anything, and now he seems to "need" Will to be his friend, to be in his life). The teacup was restored for Hannibal when he thought it was possible for him and Will and Abigail to run away together, it was shattered again with Will's betrayal (funny enough, Will DID want to run away with Hannibal, and one has to wonder, if Hannibal didn't go all murder-house, whether Will was coming to Hannibal's house to do exactly that when he took a cab to his house that day instead of disappearing completely, running away from FBI..). I think Hannibal was hoping now that they went through the Mason ordeal and worked their issues (with their attempted murders of each other!), Will would indeed forgive Hannibal and agree to run away again. That is why Hannibal wanted to talk about the teacup and Will pretty much told him it is shattered and never going to restore itself again, which was him saying "nope, never going to forgive you, we are done" as far as I am concerned.

 

 

So, as someone who hasn't read any of the books, though has some "internet" knowledge of them from discussions etc, I don't have a problem with following and making interpretations of its imageries and storylines. I think book knowledge at times adds a special flavor to the show, but it is not necessary and isn't needed to enjoy it on its own.

 

 

ETA: When this series was first announced I had a difficulty picturing anyone else other than Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal. Mads certainly had a tough job ahead of him and he delivered brilliantly. His Hannibal and Hugh Dancy's Will Graham are the ultimate version of each character for me and the image I have of them. But, I also still like Anthony Hopkins' Hannibal, I just picture his Hannibal as a much older version of our Hannibal, I think...

Edited July 22, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[Finis Terre]

To understand Chiyoh? Really? And the legal intricacies of Margot's fertility? For Hannibal's interest in in time and physics and the relationship to Mischa? Yeah, we have to disagree on that.

 

Really. Rewatching the older seasons helps enormously. 

[GreyBunny]

To understand Chiyoh? Really? And the legal intricacies of Margot's fertility? For Hannibal's interest in in time and physics and the relationship to Mischa? Yeah, we have to disagree on that.

Really.  I read Red Dragon but none of the others and have only spot-checked a few of the characters and situations in the rest of the books (just enough to know that I don't like Thomas Harris's writing and I'm not going to bother reading any more of them).  I had no trouble understanding season 3 without the help of the books or previous films. 

The only time they came in handy was when Fuller referenced something from them and I could go, "Hey, that's from the movie!"  Such as Will's fantasy of using the ravenstag to tighten the ropes around Hannibal (a reference to the film Hannibal Rising) and Hannibal bridal-carrying an unconscious Will (like Hannibal carrying Clarice in the film Hannibal).  But beyond that, I didn't need the books to enjoy and understand the TV series.  Hannibal is very educated and has an emotional connection to physics and space and time because of Mishca, I understood that just fine from Fuller's show. Chiyoh's purpose was made clear as well as the legal complications regarding the Vergers' fertility.

 

I'm pleased that Fuller decided not to focus on Margot's breeches chafing against her thighs when she walked because Thomas made it seem that was the most important thing about her in the books.  He mentioned it every. damn. time.  Ugh. 

Fuller did right by me.

Edited July 22, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Captanne]

I love this franchise and the characters.  I have since Manhunter came out in the 80s.  I like Mikkelson's Hannibal, Dancy's Graham, and this version of Jack.  (I've lost those names suddenly.)  I don't particularly like "Alana" or Margot but I loved, loved, loved both Masons.

 

What I don't like is the suffering (imo) the show has by overindulging in art school farting.  It distracts me and, based on the flaws we've noted, it wastes time that could have been better spent developing characters and relationships -- that is just my opinion.  The worst example of an artistic mistake recently, imo, was the end of the last episode's jump to the slaughter house and then a week long pause (for some, unexpectedly longer) before the time-reversal to see just what the fuck had happened in this episode.

 

Intentionally leaving an audience for 10 days going, "What the Fuck?" is not necessarily a positive thing.  A cliff hanger is one thing -- you lead the audience to the edge of the cliff.  This plot did not do that -- it lead you to one point and then, with no rationale, jump-cut to something utterly non-sequitur.  Roll credits.

 

No.  That was awful technique, imo.  Again, just my opinion.

 

I love the art school stuff -- it's pretty -- but not at the expense of the fundamentals.

 

I like this show -- some of it very, very much.  But the drawbacks are too great for me to ever recommend it.

 

At least it's not as bad as "Dig" which, for a good long time to come, I hope, will stand as my barometer of The Absolute Worst.  

Edited July 22, 2015 by Captanne

[Tippi Blevins]

I just realized Will's pretty boat is still in Italy, since he came home via the Mason Verger Express.

[jeansheridan]

Plotwise I think the beginning of this episode explained the events of what happened in the earlier episode. I like a cliffhanger AND we knew Will was alive so that issue was resolved.

The backflip off the train felt much more random except that Hannibal also backflips out a window in the same episode. Parallel experiences.

I wouldn't recommend this show to a lot of people. It is very odd. Bloody, romantic, arty, surreal. It's not an easy show. But I like it better than Mad Men. It might be more like Breaking Bad except Breaking Bad was a bit more straightforward with its cinematography.

[MisterGlass]

It's hard to describe even if you do want to recommend it because saying it's about Hannibal Lecter does not begin to cover it. 

[GreyBunny]

It's hard to describe even if you do want to recommend it because saying it's about Hannibal Lecter does not begin to cover it. 

"A deeply intense but warped platonic romance between two men told as a nightmarish fever-dream."  That's all I got.

[lulee]

"A deeply intense but warped platonic romance between two men told as a nightmarish fever-dream.".

"Also includes cooking segments"

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I just realized Will's pretty boat is still in Italy, since he came home via the Mason Verger Express.

Hee! I was also wondering about the boat... I say that is a great excuse for Will to go back to Italy, this time for a real, much earned and needed vacation.

 

The backflip off the train felt much more random except that Hannibal also backflips out a window in the same episode. Parallel experiences.

Ahh, nice catch on that parallel...

 

I recommend this show all the time... I usually start with "do you remember Silence of the Lambs?" (as a lead in to the warning that this is of course containes violence and gore) and then continue with how the show is high quality TV, and is artistic and different. That the acting is great (for those who know the movie, this is when I talk about Anthony Hopkins vs Mads Mikkelsen) and that it has some great dialogues and Will/Hannibal relationship is just very interesting. That is has quite the cult following and is beloved by critics even if not doing that great in ratings due to not being your usual TV show. And I do mention that it may feel slow at the start, but tends to speed up later on as it sets the stage...

 

I watched episode 6 with 2 of my friends, one was watching the show for the first time. We pretty much recapped the entire show to her, then made her watch the pilot too, to show her the change in Will over time, and then my friend also made her watch Shiizakana (the episode with Randall)... Our friend's opinion of the show was that even though Hugh Dancy is sure pretty to look at, even he couldn't make her watch this show which she found scary and unnerving (I think the Randall episode is the one that broke her).  I ended up having to accompany her to the parking lot that night. So... yeah, obviously this show is not everyone's cup of tea, but I will continue to recommend the show.

[Crossbow]

It's hard to describe even if you do want to recommend it because saying it's about Hannibal Lecter does not begin to cover it. 

 

And the seasons are all completely different. Season 1 is a dark comedy with a police procedural format. Season 2 has less comedy, less procedure, more psychodrama. Season 3 is like, "Genre? What Genre? Let's DO ALL THE THINGS!"

 

I have a vegetarian friend who is mesmerized by the cooking segments. She hasn't eaten meat in 30 years but she loves it.

[unworried well]

This is from the book:

You may see a cup of tea fall off of a table and break into pieces on the floor. But you will never see the cup gather itself back together and jump back on the table… The increase of disorder, or entropy, is what distinguishes the past from the future.

 

 

This is from Ko No Mono (the episode where Hannibal tells Will about Mischa):

Occasionally, I drop a teacup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I'm not satisfied when it doesn't gather itself up again. Someday perhaps, a cup will come together.

 

 

ETA: I am the last person to talk about right and wrong ways to watch TV. We all watch in different ways, for different reasons, etc. Having said that there are some cases where watching a little less casually, or rewatching is really rewarding.

Edited July 23, 2015 by unworried well

[Crossbow]

This is from the book:

 

 

This is from Ko No Mono (the episode that Hannibal tells Will about Mischa):

 

 

ETA: I am the last person to talk about right and wrong ways to watch TV. We all watch in different ways, for different reasons, etc. Having said that there are some cases where watching a little less casualy, or rewatching is really rewarding.

 

It's a more direct book reference from that. This quote is from near the end:

 

Occasionally, on purpose, Dr. Lecter drops a teacup to shatter on the floor. He is satisfied when it does not gather itself together. For many months now, he has not seen Mischa in his dreams.

Someday perhaps a cup will come together. Or somewhere Starling may hear a crossbow string and come to some unwilled awakening, if indeed she even sleeps.

 

[Captanne]

Anyone who shares living space with a housecat* understands entropy.

 

*Mr C and I have six.  Just by breathing, we are responsible for a very significant addition to the entropy of the universe.

[unworried well]

And another quote, this time from Secondo:

 

 

No longer interested in preserving the peace you found here?

You cannot preserve entropy. It gradually descends into disorder.

 

(ETA:Because my phone hates me...)

Edited July 23, 2015 by unworried well

[Anela]

Last Sunday, dad was reading a magazine in Barnes and Noble, and asked me if I'd ever watched Hannibal. I reminded him that it's one of my favourite shows, and I'd tried to get them to watch it, more than once. Apparently, my recommendation means nothing, but a list of the best shows on television will win him over...

[Black Knight]

I had forgotten about Hannibal's promise to kill Alana. Well, that makes me happy that this show is over this season since that means Alana has a good chance of surviving, seeing as how Hannibal doesn't escape until near the end of Silence of the Lambs.

 

But that just goes to show how completely self-obsessed Will is. Every time I look at him, I think, "Beverly Katz died for you, you fucktard." He had the chance to kill Hannibal in S2 and he declined, not out of any moral objection to killing (that I could at least have respected), but simply because Hannibal bored him at that time. Yeah, okay, whatever, Will. So happy that it's all about whether he interests you or not - I remember you gave Beverly shit for not believing you because you had thought she was your friend, but then she died trying to clear you and this is how you honor her sacrifice. And then of course he gave Hannibal the heads-up that enabled him to escape to Italy - another lovely way to honor Beverly's sacrifice. Beverly should've just left his ass in jail. (It's not clear that he even remembers she ever existed.) And in this episode we see it again with another woman: Alana works to save Will even though she knows that by letting Hannibal go alive, it very well could mean her own death, but she still does it because she knows it's the right thing to do. And of course Will responds by telling Hannibal to go away, he doesn't want to see him anymore, he won't try to find him, blah blah. But a free Hannibal is a Hannibal who murders people. A free Hannibal will murder the woman who saved Will in this episode. So I'm happy this show is over before we get to the point where every time I look at Will, I think, "Beverly Katz and Alana both died for you, you fucktard." (My eyes rolled clean out of my head when Will was talking to Alana in this episode. Really, Will, you're making moral judgments? You're the one who decides to let killers go because they bore you, or because they're your friend. STFU. Absolutely none of this would have happened if you hadn't passed on the opportunity to kill Hannibal in S2. The list of people who are dead because of that is already a long one, and it's going to become a much, much longer one.)

 

And wow, I had the complete opposite impression of Chiyoh in this season than Fuller says (the book she appears in is the one book in the series I haven't read). Nice job conveying that onscreen, Fuller. I'm fine with all the rest, but Chiyoh was ridiculously underwritten. Although I did love when she shoved Will off the train, since I loathe him and have ever since he forgot about Beverly.

[paramitch]

Far too belatedly posting here -- but I loved the PTV tribute with the Many Faces of Mads! One of the best things ever. And so appropriate for this episode, which truly spotlighted all of the different sides of Hannibal (and what Mads brings to him). From the urbane dinner guest, to the caged beast, to the unexpected rescuer, I was delighted at all the emotions we saw from him here. And I admit to an embarrassingly shallow affection for Hannibal's gorgeousness whenever his hair falls in his face. He goes from "coldly handsome" in those moments to "white-hot holy crapness" for me. Damn.

 

I think my favorite moment of all was the one in which Alana faced Hannibal in profile as he was still tied/caged (a visually stunning shot) -- he looked so contained yet so feral, and she matched him with her cold fierceness.  Then the heartbreaking request to save Will and the final question she couldn't help but ask:  "Could I ever have understood you?" And his honest answer: "No."

 

Mason's death scene was appropriately gothic and horrific (and every bit deserved), but I was weirdly sad that Alana actively participated in his murder. I think of all of those who have survived Hannibal, she's the one who has been most harmed and changed. She entered his orbit as a vulnerable and brilliant student and then co-worker, then became his lover (and was duped to an unbelievable degree). Now she's a murderer too.

 

As far as Chiyo, I figured like others that the character is supposed to be mid-thirties or so, which works for me. I don't think the actress is very good, but she was adequate for me here, especially as the action has progressed and all she had to do was to watch Hannibal through a rifle scope. (I'm not quite sure I get her motivation for shooting Will, however -- would she have shot him if he hadn't pulled the knife in readiness? Is her goal only to prevent any death on any side?)

 

Captanne: He was spending too much time in the editing room making sure Will saw Hannibal's face in his Cream of Wheat or whatever.

 

 

Loved this so much, and it made me chuckle out loud.

 

Black Knight, I never thought Will has ever forgotten Beverly, or any of Hannibal's victims. I think he feels acutely and painfully for every single one of Hannibal's victims (and all the victims he encounters in their grim work) and that his actions at the end of Season 2 were a result of his falling down the rabbit hole so far he couldn't see his way out, and in a kind of nightmare way he was just trying to minimize the fallout as he realized how far ahead of all of them Hannibal was. I still think his call to Hannibal was an attempt to get Hannibal to simply flee (versus staying and almost certainly killing Jack and however many others). But no matter what (and I do believe Will loves Hannibal on some level), I don't think Will would ever forget Beverly. But I also think he's so haunted and screwed up at this point that he's horrified no matter where he looks -- inward, outward, etc.

 

That was why I found the final scene between Will and Hannibal so affecting. It was so crazily normal -- Will sleeping and vulnerable, awakening to Hannibal sitting calmly by his bedside. But when Will looks at Hannibal and finally severs the connection between them, what got me was that Hannibal showed more emotion than Will did. Will is just done. And I can't blame the guy for that -- the litany of what Will suffered over the past two and a half years at Hannibal's hands is horrific. That's what kills me with Mads's performance -- he's so calm, so beatific almost. He's alien not only because he kills but because nothing seems to touch him -- Will is a shredded, bedraggled mess of a human being here, and he's been through many of the same things and is calm and controlled, all is once again right with his world. Until Will tells him goodbye.

 

The final arrest utterly surprised me, with Hannibal calmly surrendering right there in front of Will and Jack. Oddly enough, the look Hannibal gave Will when he said, "So you'll always know where to find me" scared and saddened me more than anything else Hannibal has ever said to him.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I don't remember Will saying he didn't kill Hannibal out of boredom in S2. What I remember is he tried to murder Hannibal by proxy while in jail, failed (because Gideon snitched on him in an attempt to save Will's soul, in a way, as at the end of the day Will is not really a murderer, and has been trying to not murder anyone if he can help it. Each murder he commits only brings him closer to darkness) and then once he was out Jack and Will started their "catch Hannibal" game which required Will to befriend Hannibal, waiting for him to slip up somewhat, which is when he resumed therapy with Hannibal, telling him he wasn't there to shoot him, not when he finally found him interesting. Which was really him trying to appeal to Hannibal's ego to make the whole "bonding" game easier, to earn his trust more easily. What Jack and Will didn't calculate very well was how being that close and than bonded to Hannibal would effect Will in the end. I believe if FBI hadn't decided to turn on Jack and Will, and the two were allowed to go with their plan as before, Will would do as he promised Jack. But FBI turned on them all, ruining their catch Hannibal plan, and Will found himself warning Hannibal to make him run, I believe in part to prevent the bloodshed, but also because at that moment running away with Hannibal was too alluring to resist (Will is rather honest about the part of him that wants to run away with Hannibal despite everything and I can understand it. What is important is that, it is only a "part" of Will, and it is not the part that really rules and guides his actions. It is just the part that makes him confused and at times doubtful about what he might do. And a part of himself that he keeps fighting). The whole debacle resulted in Will once again losing someone he loved, as well as his friends and him almost dying.

 

Come this season, he apparently was searching Hannibal to kill him again, but failed because Hannibal has his "guardian angel" to protect him. And Will almost got lobotomized and then his face cut off for his troubles. So I think at this point he simply has given up, he has done all he could to bring Hannibal in or kill him, and it has kept backfiring on him, killing and hurting he loves in the process as well as him. He is not bored, but he is worn out and doesn't think he can ever win in this game. This game is really more Hannibal's thing, Hannibal's liking. Playing it only ends up serving Hannibal's purposes. So Will does the one thing he has left that he can do, he cuts himself loose, he tries to take himself out of the game. And of course Hannibal doesn't/won't/can't allow it. Hannibal needs Will to seek him out, to be interested in him, to obsess about him the way he obsesses about Will. All of that matters more to Hannibal than anything else, including his freedom and, I dare say life. Hannibal will take a pause on murdering people and let himself be caged, if only for the chance to be able to lure Will back into his orbit. So, really, Will in some ways "won" by giving up and taking himself out of Hannibal's game, it did stop Hannibal. The problem is can he sustain this...

 

And I am pretty sure Will has not forgotten about Beverly or anyone else. He even said the he feels responsible for all of Hannibal's murders, including ones Hannibal committed even before meeting Will. that doesn't sound like someone who has forgotten about any of Hannibal's victims.

 

I have rewatched a whole bunch of episodes over the weekend, and I noticed, in the episode in S2 when Mason tries to kill Hannibal and Will -and ends up feeding his face to Will's dogs-, Will wakes up in Mason's ranch all alone and then walks back home. So I guess his house is actually walking distance to Mason's ranch and Hannibal did indeed carry him all the way there...

Edited July 27, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric