Figure Skating

[Avaleigh]

I know it's a long shot but I'd love to see Loena make the podium. She's definitely become a favorite over the past two seasons. She's a full package skater who could easily be in the top three if she had just one ultra c element. 

[ChicksDigScars]

17 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I know it's a long shot but I'd love to see Loena make the podium. She's definitely become a favorite over the past two seasons. She's a full package skater who could easily be in the top three if she had just one ultra c element. 

If she does, I hope she has security around her! :)

[CeeBeeGee]

4 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Hurrah for the Belgian!  Hmmm...I guess my punishment for that is Ah ah ah ah ah...is running through my head now.  Need to watch some Europeans. Maybe the music will be better.

Let me know where you can find it--YouTube is hosting them live but there don't seem to be any recorded versions of the ladies' short program. Never mind, found it.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by CeeBeeGee

[ML89]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:28 PM, Avaleigh said:

I noticed that too. Yaroslav Paniot was a good example of this. He's not a skater that I would single out as being artistic, but at least he had fun out there. Some of the music choices from skaters are beyond boring. I think of ALL the music that people have to choose from and we get another program set to Hallelujah. What is it that makes so many skaters afraid to be a little more imaginative?

I loved Yaroslav's short to KC & the Bee Gees (the one thing I didn't like about H/B's disco short was that awful version of You Should Be Dancing from the stage show). Fun and you can tell he had actually seen Saturday Night Fever.

OTOH, I HATE his Elvis program. If I see one more Elvis to "Can't Help Falling In Love" I'm going to go Elvis on my TV! I would love someone to skate to Sun Sessions Elvis, the stuff before they turned him into a crooner. At this point, even "Now or Never" would be a change.

I also sick of Hallelujah and so much of Moulin Rouge. I appreciated back when Crane of Australia did the Bolero from MR and Zhou skated "Nature Boy" from it because if I hear Tango de Roxanne one more time... Why doesn't someone just skate to Roxanne itself?  I'd like to see someone skate "One Day I'll Fly Away" - the second MR CD release had a great remix of it that seemed very skateable.

That's why I loved H/B's Heart of Glass program, and I enjoyed Tomono's "La La Land" mainly because the end is the great opening song instead of "City of Stars."

 

On 1/11/2022 at 8:54 AM, Lady Whistleup said:

I actually wonder what convos between David Pelletier and his now-wife Katia Gordeeva are like re: the SLC scandal. I have a feeling B&S's skating would have been way more to Katia's tastes. 

Re: skaters' inputs, I don't think Frank Carroll allows much input from skaters either. I read somewhere that Michelle Kwan was given programs she didn't particularly like, which is why she broke with Lori Nichols. Gracie Gold also said she was given programs that she didn't respond to. 

I've never liked Carroll after what happened to Chris Bowman. Granted, it wasn't all his fault but the things that were documented - making Bowman eat a box of donuts and spin until he threw up? Yeah, okay.

 

 

 

 

[Tippi]

I recall there was some discussion back in the day about Gordeeva & Grinkov's win in 1994.  I haven't watched these in forever, but I think Mishkutenok & Dimitriev skated clean while G & G made a mistake. 

[CeeBeeGee]

49 minutes ago, ML89 said:

I've never liked Carroll after what happened to Chris Bowman. Granted, it wasn't all his fault but the things that were documented - making Bowman eat a box of donuts and spin until he threw up? Yeah, okay.

Jesus Christ. Seriously? That's horrible. Ever since he broke with Gracie in such a cruelly public way, I haven't liked him. 

[Avaleigh]

49 minutes ago, Tippi said:

I recall there was some discussion back in the day about Gordeeva & Grinkov's win in 1994.  I haven't watched these in forever, but I think Mishkutenok & Dimitriev skated clean while G & G made a mistake. 

I preferred Mishkutenok and Dmitriev. Neither was 100% clean but G&G's mistakes were totally glossed over plus M/D had the more difficult program. I mean, one of G&G's throws was a throw double axel. M/D also had side by side triple toes. Plus, M/D had the more imaginative choreography. Not that I didn't love G&G's Moonlight program. Both were beautiful and memorable programs but I thought M/D edged out G&G that night. 

1994 was a year where I thought the judges got it wrong in almost every discipline. Nancy should have won ladies, Torvill and Dean dance and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev pairs. 

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

I preferred Mishkutenok and Dmitriev. Neither was 100% clean but G&G's mistakes were totally glossed over plus M/D had the more difficult program. I mean, one of G&G's throws was a throw double axel. M/D also had side by side triple toes. Plus, M/D had the more imaginative choreography. Not that I didn't love G&G's Moonlight program. Both were beautiful and memorable programs but I thought M/D edged out G&G that night. 

1994 was a year where I thought the judges got it wrong in almost every discipline. Nancy should have won ladies, Torvill and Dean dance and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev pairs. 

G&G were like the judges' darlings that season. I remember we were told countless times that they had the fairy tale love story. Meanwhile, M&D were fighting nonstop in practice. Also, apparently Natalia was one of those skaters who could fall on every jump in warmup and practice and keep it together in competition.

The thing I like about Tamara Moskvina is she always makes programs that suit the particular pair. B&S's programs were very different from M&D.s.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

I preferred Mishkutenok and Dmitriev. Neither was 100% clean but G&G's mistakes were totally glossed over plus M/D had the more difficult program. I mean, one of G&G's throws was a throw double axel. M/D also had side by side triple toes. Plus, M/D had the more imaginative choreography. Not that I didn't love G&G's Moonlight program. Both were beautiful and memorable programs but I thought M/D edged out G&G that night. 

1994 was a year where I thought the judges got it wrong in almost every discipline. Nancy should have won ladies, Torvill and Dean dance and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev pairs. 

Amen, amen & amen!!!

[ML89]

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

1994 was a year where I thought the judges got it wrong in almost every discipline. Nancy should have won ladies, Torvill and Dean dance and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev pairs. 

Yes. I’d add Elvis over Urmanov too - I loved that Dragon program. 

[healthnut]

3 hours ago, Tippi said:

I recall there was some discussion back in the day about Gordeeva & Grinkov's win in 1994.  I haven't watched these in forever, but I think Mishkutenok & Dimitriev skated clean while G & G made a mistake. 

I felt that way at the time. But years later, I get it. G/G’s moonlight sonata was beautiful and M/D were good but I don’t feel like Rach #2 brought out their best like their 92 Olympic free program, Liebestraum. Both G/G Moinlight Sonata and M/D Liebestraum are two of my top 5 fave pairs programs ever. 

 

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

1994 was a year where I thought the judges got it wrong in almost every discipline. Nancy should have won ladies, Torvill and Dean dance and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev pairs. 

Nancy over Oksana yes. But I was a FAN of Oksana/Pasha Grishuk, Torvill/Dean bored me to tears…shocking, I know. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Speaking of Katia she is quite active on social media. She has both a Russian and English IG page and also a Twitter. For awhile the creepy Sergei widows made her a bit of a hermit. 

 

[annzeepark914]

I just finished rewatching the rhythm dance. It was so much nicer watching when I didn't have to worry at all about C/B. 

[HartofDixie]

17 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I preferred Mishkutenok and Dmitriev. Neither was 100% clean but G&G's mistakes were totally glossed over plus M/D had the more difficult program. I mean, one of G&G's throws was a throw double axel. M/D also had side by side triple toes. Plus, M/D had the more imaginative choreography. Not that I didn't love G&G's Moonlight program. Both were beautiful and memorable programs but I thought M/D edged out G&G that night. 

1994 was a year where I thought the judges got it wrong in almost every discipline. Nancy should have won ladies, Torvill and Dean dance and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev pairs. 

Loved both teams but felt M/D had the better free.

 

 

[Lady Whistleup]

Sergei looked sluggish and out of sorts at that Olympics. Looking back, you wonder if his heart was already giving him problems.

[annzeepark914]

Thanks for posting these videos, HartofDixie. Gee, Scott sure showed his mega preference  for his Stars on Ice pals. And yes, Sergei did look sluggish, especially compared with Artur. I noticed Katia kept looking at her husband with a very serious expression on her face. Both teams, though, skated beautifully with that old Russian style. Neither Artur's nor Sergei's leg kicked up when throwing their partners, something that has *always* bugged me re: Chinese pairs. Who the heck was the American judge? A 5.6/5.7 for M/D? 

 

[SweetSable]

Deniss Vasiljevs' performance in the Euro. Championships long program was wonderful.  So glad he got a medal (bronze)!

 

[Lady Whistleup]

48 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Thanks for posting these videos, HartofDixie. Gee, Scott sure showed his mega preference  for his Stars on Ice pals. And yes, Sergei did look sluggish, especially compared with Artur. I noticed Katia kept looking at her husband with a very serious expression on her face. Both teams, though, skated beautifully with that old Russian style. Neither Artur's nor Sergei's leg kicked up when throwing their partners, something that has *always* bugged me re: Chinese pairs. Who the heck was the American judge? A 5.6/5.7 for M/D? 

 

Both Katia and Sergei actually looked sad and worried. In Katia's book she said that Sergei's back was in pain and so she kept losing weight to help his back,. She also said that Sergei was so upset about the mistakes he made that he didn't enjoy his Olympic experience. That makes me sad.

[Lady Whistleup]

One thing watching the G&G and M&D programs is how well they've held up over nearly 30 years. G&G had that very classical style, M&D a more powerful and dynamic style. What a great competition.

[HartofDixie]

Had to go back and rewatch this!

 

[annzeepark914]

Has any pair team skated like this since M/D? That final move where Artur pulled her back up into the death spiral--I can't think of any other pair team that has done stuff like this. One other thought--I'm so glad Scott is no longer commentating. His voice was so loud. Thanks HartofDixie for posting this. I remember watching this, & then just wanting to watch it over & over. In their SP, she had a wedgie & very casually fixed it in a death spiral. I remember that one of the commentators noted this & was impressed.

[Lady Whistleup]

The 1991 WC Liebestraum performance was even better:

And no, no one has ever attempted some of the unique moves M&D did. 

[annzeepark914]

4 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The 1991 WC Liebestraum performance was even better:

And no, no one has ever attempted some of the unique moves M&D did. 

Because they wouldn't get extra points for it. And I realize the lifts today are much more difficult than those done in '92.  But that Liebestram LP, to me, is The Best. Artur's incredible strength and Natalia's flexibility, the beautiful music & costumes...a couple minor flaws but, meh!  Speaking of the costumes--for women, they sure would solve a certain issue for female skaters, especially in some of those overhead lifts. Whoops...no flaws in this 1991 Europeans LP.  Sorry!!  Just watched again...so beautiful 💖

Edited January 15, 2022 by annzeepark914

[Chit Chat]

I haven't been paying much attention to ice skating for a while (I can't keep up with all of the competitions), but I was wondering if the ShibSibs (Alex & Maia) are still competing or not.  I see from their Instagram account that they're modeling the latest Olympic clothing line for the USA, but it doesn't look like they're competing.  I haven't read much about them since her illness a few years ago.  I enjoyed watching them, along with Meryl & Charlie.  

[specialj67]

11 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I haven't been paying much attention to ice skating for a while (I can't keep up with all of the competitions), but I was wondering if the ShibSibs (Alex & Maia) are still competing or not.  I see from their Instagram account that they're modeling the latest Olympic clothing line for the USA, but it doesn't look like they're competing.  I haven't read much about them since her illness a few years ago.  I enjoyed watching them, along with Meryl & Charlie.  

As far as I know, they aren’t competing anymore. I also enjoyed them a lot and would have loved to see them continue, but at least they finished on a competitive high note.

[annzeepark914]

29 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I haven't been paying much attention to ice skating for a while (I can't keep up with all of the competitions), but I was wondering if the ShibSibs (Alex & Maia) are still competing or not.  I see from their Instagram account that they're modeling the latest Olympic clothing line for the USA, but it doesn't look like they're competing.  I haven't read much about them since her illness a few years ago.  I enjoyed watching them, along with Meryl & Charlie.  

They retired from competitive skating and I miss their skating (& that of Davis & White). Two very different teams but both brought such talented & fascinating styles of ice dancing. And no sappy stares at each other while skating to center ice (thanks, V/M...will we ever see the end of this silliness?) 

[Lady Whistleup]

I actually didn't like Davis/White. I appreciated them, but I thought their skating skills were rough for ice dance. They didn't skate on their edges that much, but on the flats of their blades. 

[Avaleigh]

22 hours ago, SweetSable said:

Deniss Vasiljevs' performance in the Euro. Championships long program was wonderful.  So glad he got a medal (bronze)!

I was so happy about this! He had my favorite performance of the men. I only wish he'd won the silver over Daniel. Plus I loved seeing how happy Lambiel was. 

I was initially worried that there'd be another Russian sweep so I was glad to see a couple of other countries get some love.

On another note, I was so resistant to getting Peacock because we didn't want to add yet another streaming service, but I have to admit that I feel like I've already got my money's worth from the skating coverage let alone all of the stuff my husband likes watching. It's nice to have the option to watch the events live with no commentary and then later watching the skaters I most want to see with the commentary. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Watching the Euros ladies FS. A lot of rough skates so far.

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Watching the Euros ladies FS. A lot of rough skates so far.

Really, really loved Ekaterina Kurakova here. That was the most unexpected skate of the day. She gave it her all. I would have put her in third.

Never count out Anna Shcherbakova. She's one of the strongest under pressure competitors I've ever seen. Beautiful program and that quad flip was flawless.

Trusova falls on her ass twice and still takes home a medal. I'm so over it.

Loena let an opportunity slip away. Very disappointing as she’s so talented. She didn't completely give up but she really let the first mistake get to her.

Kamila was a little off. Hopefully she's got the nerves out of her system and she'll have a better skate at the Olympics. It would suck if she won Olympic gold with a skate like that.

If the Europeans was the decider of who should skate in the team event, I think it should be Kamila for the short and Anna for the long. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Kamila won me over when she chuckled at the end of her skate. She knew it wasn't her best but she seemed to recover quickly. 

It seems as if all of Eteri's girls are going through growth spurts/puberty. It will be interesting to see if they keep their jumps.

[CeeBeeGee]

3 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Really, really loved Ekaterina Kurakova here. That was the most unexpected skate of the day. She gave it her all. I would have put her in third.

Never count out Anna Shcherbakova. She's one of the strongest under pressure competitors I've ever seen. Beautiful program and that quad flip was flawless.

Trusova falls on her ass twice and still takes home a medal. I'm so over it.

Kamila was a little off. Hopefully she's got the nerves out of her system and she'll have a better skate at the Olympics. It would suck if she won Olympic gold with a skate like that.

If the Europeans was the decider of who should skate in the team event, I think it should be Kamila for the short and Anna for the long. 

They need to penalize more for falls. I too am over Trusova's constant falls. I want to like her and I admire her for pushing the sport but she doesn't even try any kind of artistry--if your whole strategy is just jumpsjumpsjumps then you'd better be consistent.

Thrilled for Anna's clean skate. She looked gorgeous out there.

I literally gasped when Kamila fell.

Absolutely loved the Polish girl's skate! Get that 3A, girl, so you can medal over Sasha!

[Avaleigh]

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

They need to penalize more for falls. I too am over Trusova's constant falls. I want to like her and I admire her for pushing the sport but she doesn't even try any kind of artistry--if your whole strategy is just jumpsjumpsjumps then you'd better be consistent.

Thrilled for Anna's clean skate. She looked gorgeous out there.

I literally gasped when Kamila fell.

Absolutely loved the Polish girl's skate! Get that 3A, girl, so you can medal over Sasha!

It annoyed me a little when Johnny said that Trusova is all about perfection (paraphrasing) because she's *always* good for at least one fall per program, usually two and sometimes even three or four per competition if we count short and long. Meanwhile Kurakova has this amazing skate that is completely undervalued. The way Jonny and Tara fawn of Trusova is annoying. Johnny says she isn't as strong artistically when in reality she doesn't attempt to be artistic at all. And somehow her PCS don't really suffer for it. It must be really frustrating to people who value PCS.

There are several skaters who could be legitimately competitive if they had just one ultra c element. As good as Kurakova is I don't think she has the kind of double axel that can be turned into a triple. It's a bummer how many talented skaters are going to stay off the podium for the major competitions because they can't do quads.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

It annoyed me a little when Johnny said that Trusova is all about perfection (paraphrasing) because she's *always* good for at least one fall per program, usually two and sometimes even three or four per competition if we count short and long.

I thought exactly the same thing. "For a perfectionist, you're not very good at it!"

[healthnut]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

It's a bummer how many talented skaters are going to stay off the podium for the major competitions because they can't do quads.

There’s talk they’re going to allow quads in ladies short programs soon and that will be the kiss of death for everyone else as if it’s not hard enough already. I believe Korea has some girls doing some ultra C elements but if you saw Russian Nationals or the JGP you know there’s more Russian girls doing quads ready to take over when this batch is cooked. 

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, healthnut said:

There’s talk they’re going to allow quads in ladies short programs soon and that will be the kiss of death for everyone else as if it’s not hard enough already. I believe Korea has some girls doing some ultra C elements but if you saw Russian Nationals or the JGP you know there’s more Russian girls doing quads ready to take over when this batch is cooked. 

This is a tough call. On the one hand I understand why they aren't currently allowing quads. I don't want the sport to turn into something that is a jumping contest and nothing more.

At the same time many of the girls who can do the ultra c elements have strong artistic skills. Most of them aren't purely jump focused like Trusova.

Wrt injuries--injuries have always been a part of this sport. Whether skaters are doing doubles, triples or quads injuries will happen and will continue to happen. That's pretty much the way it is with any sport.

People had similar concerns about triple jumps once upon a time. There were concerns for the sport when Midori and Tonya were doing triple axels and school figures were dropped for seniors after worlds in 1990. People complained when Michelle started doing seven triple jumps and seven triples in a long eventually became the norm. There was a time when women only had to do a double jump in the short program. Eventually things change to reflect the progress in the sport.

I also kind of feel like if men are allowed to do quads in the short then women should be allowed to do them too if they are capable.

[peachmangosteen]

What are ultra c elements?

[healthnut]

29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

What are ultra c elements?

Triple axel and quads, it's a recent term.

[specialj67]

The debate over messier programs with quads vs. less messy programs without them in womens skating now feels similar to the same debate in mens like 20 years ago. It took time for the quad talent pool to develop. for a few seasons in the early ‘00s it was kinda just Yagudin, then Plushenko, and maybe a couple of others on a level of their own, and everyone else a level or two below them, in terms of jump content. But by the late ‘00s and early 2010s the rest of the elite field caught up.

[KittenPokerCheater]

If I ran the ISU, I'd make these changes to the point system for the Singles Events.

1.  Falls need to be more penalized, so that people don't do jumps they can't land  because it would cost them so many points.  Rotations don't count if you can't land them.

2. Triple Axels should have a higher base value than quads (since the triple seems "harder" for whatever reason.

3. Make the steps/laybacks/spins have more a lot more points so that more people will do them.

4. No bonus points for backloading programs.

5. No favorites. Judge everyone fairly or the judges will be fired.  

6. Also, I want a pony.

[carrier76]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

If I ran the ISU, I'd make these changes to the point system for the Singles Events.

1.  Falls need to be more penalized, so that people don't do jumps they can't land  because it would cost them so many points.  Rotations don't count if you can't land them.

2. Triple Axels should have a higher base value than quads (since the triple seems "harder" for whatever reason.

3. Make the steps/laybacks/spins have more a lot more points so that more people will do them.

4. No bonus points for backloading programs.

5. No favorites. Judge everyone fairly or the judges will be fired.  

6. Also, I want a pony.

I think they added the second half bonus after the era of Plushenko, who spent the entire first half jumping and waving his hands around, or, as Dick Button said, “bamboozling us with his hands.”

[Souris]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:54 AM, Lady Whistleup said:

I actually wonder what convos between David Pelletier and his now-wife Katia Gordeeva are like re: the SLC scandal. 

Wait, what? 😮 Wow, I had no idea they were a couple! 

So glad Chock and Bates won. I get that their FD isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I applaud them for doing interesting routines that aren’t the overwrought passion sneer face “romance” programs that are so prevalent. I couldn’t stand Virtue/Moir for that reason, and the same goes for Hubbell/Donohue.

[Lady Whistleup]

The first OGM program to include a quad was actually 1998, which was more than 24 years ago. 

Ilia Kulik:

Ilia actually has an instagram now:

https://www.instagram.com/iliaa.kulik/

He's still a cutie.

[Lady Whistleup]

Just now, Souris said:

Wait, what? 😮 Wow, I had no idea they were a couple! 

So glad Chock and Bates won. I get that their FD isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I applaud them for doing interesting routines that aren’t the overwrought passion sneer face “romance” programs that are so prevalent. I couldn’t stand Virtue/Moir for that reason, and the same goes for Hubbell/Donohue.

Yes they married during the pandemic. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH5zhWxAQrM/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRxLzFBNcSZ/

 

[annzeepark914]

7 minutes ago, Souris said:

😮So glad Chock and Bates won. I get that their FD isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I applaud them for doing interesting routines that aren’t the overwrought passion sneer face “romance” programs that are so prevalent. I couldn’t stand Virtue/Moir for that reason, and the same goes for Hubbell/Donohue.

Initially, I disliked their FD. But I *love* the way Chock uses her hands so dramatically...reminds me of Michelle, back when Lori Nichols was her choreographer. And that lift, when Chock is standing so majestically on Bates' thigh? 💙

[specialj67]

2 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Initially, I disliked their FD. But I *love* the way Chock uses her hands so dramatically...reminds me of Michelle, back when Lori Nichols was her choreographer. And that lift, when Chock is standing so majestically on Bates' thigh? 💙

I have no idea if their FD twizzle sequence is the best in a technical sense, but it’s certainly one of my faves this season for wow factor. I hope they do well next month; I applaud them for not playing it safe, programmatically, in an Olympic season.

[healthnut]

6 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

1.  Falls need to be more penalized, so that people don't do jumps they can't land  because it would cost them so many points.  Rotations don't count if you can't land them.

2. Triple Axels should have a higher base value than quads (since the triple seems "harder" for whatever reason.

3. Make the steps/laybacks/spins have more a lot more points so that more people will do them.

4. No bonus points for backloading programs.

5. No favorites. Judge everyone fairly or the judges will be fired.  

6. Also, I want a pony.

I think falls are penalized pretty fairly, you lose half the value plus a 1 pt fall deduction, if its underrotated, it loses 20% base value and if its downgraded, they lose a lot of value. Take the triple axel. I think if you can fully rotate it, include it, if you fall, it ends up worth 3 pts (8pts base value - 4 points for fall - 1 pt for fall deduction). Contrasted with a clean double axel, it averages 4.30 points (3.30 BV + 1 GOE), the absolutely best a 2A could get would be 4.95 (very hard to get +5 on a 2A), so in most cases someone loses 1-1.5 points for falling on fully rotated 3A. Now if its underrotated, it the base value is 6.40 so the loss of 3.2 plus a 1 pt deduction is 2.20, they are better off the doing the 2A. If it's a full downgrade, the net is 0.65. 

Let's take a quad salchow, BV 9.70, fully rotated with a fall, net is 3.85, less than a clean 3S and of course, less if its under. So falling on quads doesn't really help someone. Its landing them that racks up so many points. I understand the frustration with Trusova, who almost always falls on one or two racking up so many points, but that's because she inevitably lands 2, 3, or 4 clean quads to make up for it. If you take away base value completely because someone falls, remember that would also happen if someone fell on a triple in that same scenario so it would probably balance out. 

Current ladies could definitely make IJS work better for them by trying more difficult combinations or doing them in the second half vs the first half. I, too, would like to see spins worth more points and I'm SO SICK of Beilmann spins, can we give out level 4 for centered spins with more revolutions instead of just achieving hypermobile positions?

I think revaluing 3A is a good idea, I think it's sad 30 years after Midori and Tonya we are just now getting to a place where there is more than one or two ladies attempting them. The gold standard in the men's event used to be the 3A/3T combo and that's such a rarity now. I'd love to see it make a comeback.

[Lady Whistleup]

19 minutes ago, healthnut said:

I think revaluing 3A is a good idea, I think it's sad 30 years after Midori and Tonya we are just now getting to a place where there is more than one or two ladies attempting them. The gold standard in the men's event used to be the 3A/3T combo and that's such a rarity now. I'd love to see it make a comeback.

I think the issue is that most skaters nowadays are stronger toe jumpers than edge jumpers. There are exceptions like Yuzuru Hanyu and Kamila Valieva who have beautiful edge jumps, but a lot of the top skaters are toe jumpers. Nathan Chen is a great example -- extraordinary jumper, but he is a much stronger lutz/flip/toe-loop jumper than axel/salchow/loop jumper. Sasha Trusova and Anna Schcerbakova are also much stronger toe jumpers.

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

4. No bonus points for backloading programs.
 

They add bonus points for the second half because it's fricking hard! The skaters are exhausted at that point. I admired Zag for doing something that difficult--that said, I'm glad they corrected it so they couldn't game the system any more. But they should get some bonus for jumps in the second half.

 

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

 

 

That hideous giraffe jacket--*shudder.* 

[Jillibean]

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Ilia Kulik:

https://www.instagram.com/iliaa.kulik/

He's still a cutie.

And let's not forget his finest moment, his role as Sergei in Center Stage.