Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[Velocity23]

Jesus the official Arrow account on tumblr is really brutal if you are L/O fan

 

[dtissagirl]

Oh, wow, I really did not expect them to go negative on social media. I figured they'd just keep posting all F/O all the time and ignoring Laurel and L/O.

 

 

I had to keep telling people that it doesn't matter what the comics say because that isn't what is being portrayed on screen. There's only so much fan wanking a person can do before it's time to admit, "Yeah, this is a terrible character and the chemistry isn't there." People say that the term chemistry is arbitrary, but it isn't. Some people instantly label chemistry as romantic and sexual, but it's really the connection established between too actors/characters that makes whatever relationship they have believable. KC and SA don't have that--it really doesn't click for them and it's not something that can be taught either. 

 

This. The idea that on screen chemistry is subjective is ludicrous IMO. Hollywood has built a whole industry based on figuring out who has chemistry with whom and then putting them in projects together as many times as possible. And bad chemistry can do actual demage [audiences leave when they feel uncomfortable], so steering a show away from it is just good business. Arrow really [REALLY] lucked out when EBR was cast, because it's not just that she had great chemistry with Amell, it's that she also helped solve the really bad chemistry problem the show had before her.

Edited August 3, 2014 by dancingnancy

[pootlus]

Just came out of Manu's panel and it was interesting - he confirmed that the Island triangle with Slade/Shado/Oliver came a bit out of the blue for him and until that point he'd been treating her more like a daughter/younger sister.

Arrow execs, you really need to keep your actors in the loop or plan things out better.

He's an absolute lovely guy and it seems there's nothing he can't do.

[Velocity23]

Caity will be at the Comic Book and Science Fiction Convention in LA, on August 17

 

http://www.comicbookscifi.com

[TanyaKay]

Just came out of Manu's panel and it was interesting - he confirmed that the Island triangle with Slade/Shado/Oliver came a bit out of the blue for him and until that point he'd been treating her more like a daughter/younger sister.

Arrow execs, you really need to keep your actors in the loop or plan things out better.

He's an absolute lovely guy and it seems there's nothing he can't do.

 

Kudos to Manu then, that despite all that confusion, he managed to deliver such a convincing performance. I know the world love John Barrowman but as far as villains go, Slade Wilson was far more convincing and enjoyable than Malcolm Merlyn.

[Sakura12]

Malcolm's motivation was better than Slade's. What they did was Slade was really stupid and took away my enjoyment of his character. Love Manu though.

[pootlus]

He almost lost it in the panel when he talked about Andy Whitfield - just sort of choked up a bit and turned to hug this cute eight-year old girl he'd invited up on stage to share his panel. It's the closest I've come to actually crying in a panel - it's obvious that Andy's untimely death affected him deeply.

He's also clearly devoured pretty much every Deathstroke comic written, because he knew a lot about the comic character's motivations and psyche. He also made sure two guys who didn't get to ask questions because they ran out of time got to come down to him after the panel for a picture.

Basically, he's adorable.

Oh and there's apparently a PG version of Spartacus. It must be very short.

Edited August 3, 2014 by pootlus

[TanyaKay]

This. The idea that on screen chemistry is subjective is ludicrous IMO. Hollywood has built a whole industry based on figuring out who has chemistry with whom and then putting them in projects together as many times as possible. And bad chemistry can do actual demage [audiences leave when they feel uncomfortable], so steering a show away from it is just good business. Arrow really [REALLY] lucked out when EBR was cast, because it's not just that she had great chemistry with Amell, it's that she also helped solve the really bad chemistry problem the show had before her.

 

Casting EBR was a stroke of luck that EPs should be thanking for all the time and they do, Guggenheim has said it multiple times that EBR/Felicity solved a problem they were not even aware that they had. She has great chemistry with every actor she has interacted with. Be it Stephen Amell, David, Caity Lotz, Grant Gustin, Paul Blackthorne or Sussanna Thompson (they had like one and a half scene together and that was mind blowing), she manages to develop this connection with everyone. It is obviously stronger with Stephen and then with David because she has worked with them more and has multiple one to one scenes with them but this girl is amazing and CW lucked out tremendously with this casting.

I am really looking forward to season 3 and I want her to have some scenes with Willa Holland. After watching them during SDCC, I think they would be amazing on screen together.

[KenyaJ]

Wow. The tags on that Tumblr post are brutal. Meanwhile, speaking of casting EBR, look what happened two years ago today: 

 

 

Credit to the SmoakandArrow blog.

[Guest]

Wow. I'm no Lauriver fan but those tumblr tags are just unnecessary. Do we need to incite more shipper wars? Yikes.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Guest

[catrox14]

I think they are building up Laurel to become a villain.  IMO that's why they are showing those somewhat negative Tumblr posts

[scarynikki12]

Please be right, please be right!!!!

[BkWurm1]

"Trouble in Lauiver land."   "there is one women in his life"  "Sorry Laurel" 

 

Seriously, as much as I appreciate it, that's going kind of far.  Talk about sticking a knife in it and twisting. 

 

Did I mention these were under GIFs of Oliver saying

"I have loved you for half my life"  "But I'm done running after you" Cue Laurel's sad face.

Edited August 4, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

I think they are building up Laurel to become a villain.  IMO that's why they are showing those somewhat negative Tumblr posts

 

I think those tags are just the case of them knowing their majority audience but ha. I'd buy Laurel as a villain more than I buy her as some do-gooder.

 

Oh noes. I kinda want it to happen now. 

[statsgirl]

Wow. I'm no Lauriver fan but those tumblr tags are just unnecessary. Do we need to incite more shipper wars? Yikes.

i think the show is trying to cut down on shipper wars by saying unequivocally that Oliver and Laurel are done for the moment.

 

Stephen Amell said it and a lot of people thought it was just an actor and no need to believe him.  This is the voice of the EPs and WB confirming it.

[NumberCruncher]

i think the show is trying to cut down on shipper wars by saying unequivocally that Oliver and Laurel are done for the moment.

 

Stephen Amell said it and a lot of people thought it was just an actor and no need to believe him.  This is the voice of the EPs and WB confirming it.

Or it could just mean that whoever the staff person is who runs the Arrow Tumblr account has a 'ship bias. This actually isn't the first time that account has shown blatant preference for an Oliver/Felicity pairing, but I personally wouldn't go so far as to say it's the EPs and/or the higher-ups at WB driving it. I do think it crossed the line a bit--especially given that the blog isn't just meant for Olicity fans (and I say that as one). I think it's one thing to post pro-Olicity gifsets, but this was a rather in-your-face, anti-Lauriver entry. Given that emotions are running high within the fandom, it doesn't seem like a wise move.

[AnyoneButYou]

The shipper wars were already ramped up after SA and the producers' statements at SDCC anyway. I don't really think it's crossing a line if all they're doing is repeating what SA said. Those statements probably reached more people than the tags on the show's Tumblr page.

Edited August 4, 2014 by AnyoneButYou

[wonderwall]

Actually, I have a friend in PR and she dabbles with PR for entertainment and what she said was that usually, in order for a social media website to show preference to something like relationships on shows (not considered set in stone), the person who runs that site has to get approval from the higher ups. That Laurel gifset was nothing but a reiteration of what SA said which I dont' think is crossing a line. It just goes to show that what SA said wasn't false, nor was it done without the blessing of the higher ups. It just validates his statement even more. Shippers be damned. 

[lizbennet]

Hi, newbie here!

I used to dabble in Pr and I have to ask a question: do you think being hurtful to other fans is going to help the show? This is probably validated by TPTB, but.. this is a GREAT way to alienate fans and probably loose a chunk (how big or small is yet to be seen) of audience, IMHO. If the message is "We are done with Lauriver", it could have been delivered better and in an (almost) painless or more respectful way.

So far the show has been treading quite carefully around this subject, which obviously doesn't sit well with part of the fandom. It is not casual that SA has been chosen to talk about this more openly.

 

I am not an Olicity fan nor a Lauriver fan, but I expect that writers, Ep, executives and what not give me something interesting to watch, not hurt my feelings o generelly being offensive. Is this a way to end shippers war? Yes, terminating also a part of fans, in an unecessary rude way, considering this is an official account.

 

PS: apologies per any mistakes, English is not my mother tongue and my spellcheck works for a different language, 

[Velocity23]

Caity Lotz at Tampa Con (full video)

 

[Velocity23]

I talked to a friend in PR. And she thinks this was just their way to confirm Stephen Amells words. And remember at the beginning when his statements came out most people at first didn't believe it. They even said what does Stephen know he is just an actor, not an writer. She is convinced that this was also used to shut off the comic canon argument. Also that from an unbiased PR POV Olicity will bring in GA (General Audience,) it already has, and that is why they are going ahead with it,the numbers don't lie!
She also pointed out that this wasn't a work of an intern since they are already finished for the summer. So it's the REAL PR not mincing words or pics.

[pootlus]

Okay someone kindly uploaded a segment of John's panel where he talks about meeting George Lucas (using Natalie Cole as a human shield), followed by an extended sequence of John describing pranking/perving over Stephen Amell.

[wonderwall]

@Velocity23, also I'm pretty sure that if this was the work of an intern that person would be yanked and the post would've been deleted. :p PR is EXTREMELY important to shows so I doubt the network takes it lightly. 

[Velocity23]

All official Arrow acounts be it on twitter/facebok or tumblr have been pushing Felicity/Olicity pretty hard since the finale. Do you remember how they did the countdown and Felicity was saved for 1 day to go. And the tags were: we know what you love the most so we saved it for last. They even started #FelicityFriday tag on twitter, even WB joined in. I dont recall even a single post i seen on twitter/facebook about Laurel. 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

There is a better chance of fans returning if they are convinced the sister-swapping is done. An overwhelming number of fans were done with the show after S2 because of the bait-and-switch and the jacket hand-off. I think they are trying to bring back the viewers who had said they were basically done with Arrow until mid-season and they knew the direction of the show. Well, I think the GPS is giving clear and precise directions at the moment.

[dtissagirl]

Also, any kind of official PR happening on Tumblr is really focused on people that are on Tumblr [i.e., folks who are already in fandom]. It's not trying cast a wider net like Facebook and Twitter do. They did it the right way too, by keeping the specific people that they might alienate out of the tags: "laurel lance"  is the sixth tag in that post. Tumblr only indexes the first 5 tags, so people who are tracking "laurel lance" won't see it. It'll show up in search results [in case anyone is looking for the negative stuff -- because the CW is being sneaky, but not completely sneaky], but Tumblr people generally stick to the tag pages instead of searches [fandom etiquette = it works!]. I'm sure there's always a risk of pissing people off by doing any sort of negative PR, but they posted it, so they seem to have deemed that the risk was not that big.

Edited August 4, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Sakura12]

CL knows how to answer questions, make jokes and not anger most of the fanbase. It's not that difficult. Someone really needs to tell KC if she's not good at making jokes, don't make them. Saying she ships Olicity and Nysara show she knows how to keep her fans. 

 

I was wondering if someone was going to ask her about American Ninja Warrior, since they are always asking Stephen. I'd love to see her and Stephen attempt the course, not for the competition or anything just for fun)

 

And on another note, these are someone's custom made Arrow figures.

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by Sakura12

[doesntworkonwood]

It was a reblog, so it wont appear in any of the tags anyway. As far as I'm aware, the cw arrow page follows some fan arrow blogs, and reblogs from them. The tagging is probably to help them organise the blog.

 

The tumblr definitely has an Olicity/Felicity bias, every other post includes Olicity or Felicity. I'm pretty sure that those who follow the blog are very aware of this, so their followers probably don't include a lot of Lauriver/Laurel fans. Because of that, I really don't think that there was really a risk at all, the people who would have seen the tags first had would have most likely been Olicity shippers, and it would have been the screenshots that other fans would have seen.

 

That said, if you're bored, I would scroll through the tumblr. For the most part, the tags on all of the posts are quite funny, and it seems that the people running the blog do have an understanding of the fans opinions. 

[Password]

I really don't think the tumblr thing was necessary, but at the same time it's the show's own fault that some fans still think/dread that Laurel and Oliver may come up again. For me, sleeping with Sara put that relationship well and truly to bed (6 feet deep no less), but I'm sure some still feared the EPs would somehow try to get them together after the love they showed for the Lauriver relationship.

 

We don't trust them, so this is what they resort to. For shame.

[catrox14]

I don't really understand why that Tumblr is so controversial. The screencaps they show are what happened on screen. And IMO one doesn't even need captions, be they snarky or not, to see there is some bad blood between those two characters. 

[wonderwall]

I don't think the writers are to blame though. I think canon is to blame for us not believing that Laurel/Oliver are truly over. The show has stated time and time again that Laurel/Oliver are over, however, because of canon and sometimes the ambiguous things that the EPs say about their relationship, we don't really believe that L/O are truly over. There are still some fans who 100% believe or think they like to know that L/O will be endgame. Some people think it's "obvious" that they will end up together because of canon. While I do believe that anything can happen within 3-5 years, I don't think that revisiting L/O is a possibility because we will always remember the L/Os past. It will taint our view of them as individuals because if they do get together, it'll regress their characters immensely. 

 

So I blame canon for the insecurity. *shrugs*

[BkWurm1]

The first time through (and the second, and the third) I read the tags, particularly the "Sorry Laurel" as kind of smugly smirking at the fan and that is never a good idea. I've been the one derided so i wouldn't wish that on anyone, BUT "sorry Laurel" really isn't all that inflamitory if it was meant with sincerity. Read that way then yeah, it does just seem like some confirmation of the shows direction. Not fun news for the die hard shipper, but it's better than being strung along.

Going back to Smallville (and I can't help going), TPTB kept their comments ambiguous for a solid 6 or 7 years and even after their words indicated the direction of the show's romantic intentions, content within the show seemed at odds with what TPTB were saying right down to the end, messing with what I knew and what I saw. I hope there is no stringing along of the Laurel/Oliver fan. Not fun.

[doesntworkonwood]

I agree that it was totally unnecessary. I'd understand them reblogging the post, but the tags were really harsh. I personally think that as they have already shown an Olicity bias, there was no need to mention that with regards to other ships.

 

I think the reason the tags are controversial is because they brought in a variable that (IMO) has nothing to do with Laurel/Oliver. The fact that 'there is one women in [Oliver's] life' (i.e. Felicity) has nothing to do with the fact that in that scene Oliver and Laurel are having a blow out, so there was no point bringing it up. I'd understand if the tags were just 'Struggles in Lauliver-Land' and 'Sorry Laurel', then it would just be snarky comments about what's happening in the gifs. I think that the fact that they needed to add the extra line shows a lot about how they now perceive the relationship. And I think that perception is that it's over.

 

@wonderwall I agree that the show has shown that there is not going to go there again. You don't spend an entire season pretty much ignoring the relationship between two characters and further splitting them up (Sara), just to get them back together again. (IMO) The only argument for their relationship is that it is 'canon' in the comics, and TPTB have shown that they wont always stick to the comics already. 

[catrox14]

My issue with going back to Smallville is that those were different showrunners and writers AFAIK. I like to think that the Arrow PTB learned what NOT to do.  And so far, it seems they have, IMO.

Edited August 4, 2014 by catrox14

[BkWurm1]

My issue with going back to Smallville is that those were different showrunners and writers AFAIK. I like to think that the Arrow PTB learned what NOT to do.  And so far, it seems they have, IMO.

Ah but they are still show runners dancing around comic book cannon and that I'm here at all is a testament to either my lunacy or my fortitude and willingness TO give them a chance to prove they are not going to follow the Smallville model. I know a lot of past Smallville viewers that would love Arrow but they won't risk the predetermined end formula show again. I've brought up the IMO lovely dynamic between Oliver and Felicity and I was surprised that most knew about it, they just couldn't risk the disappointment again.

I'm close to the point where I want to shout it's safe to come in, but part of me is still afraid it's too good to be true - cause it usually is.

[calliope1975]

BUT "sorry Laurel" really isn't all that inflammatory if it was meant with sincerity. Read that way then yeah, it does just seem like some confirmation of the shows direction. Not fun news for the die hard shipper, but it's better than being strung along.

 

You're right. I hadn't read it that way because I am mostly snarky myself. However, if this was the intent, then that shows Oliver/Laurel shippers that that door has been closed. I know just last year I was bitching about wanting the show to stop teasing Olicity if it wasn't going to go anywhere. Because at least then I would know and focus on other aspects of the show I enjoyed. I hope some of the Lauriver ? (oh man, I don't even know their ship name) are glad they aren't getting teased for something that won't have a payout. 

Edited August 4, 2014 by calliope1975

[Lisin]

A place to discuss production, staff, writers, how PR is handled.

[SonofaBiscuit]

The official Arrow tumblr page is kind of funny if you scroll through everything and look at the hidden tags.  There's a salmon ladder one tagged with "I can't even handle this" and "it's like his abs have abs."  They clearly love Team Arrow, and Olicity in particular.  Must like Sara too...they have her tagged as "Black Canary" rather than just Canary. 

[wingster55]

it's that she also helped solve the really bad chemistry problem the show had before her.

 

What problem? That's insinuating that in addition to the supposed lack of chemistry between Katie and Stephen there was bad cast between every actor and that Emily came on after the hard times of..two eps and waved a wand that fixed a chemistry problem. 

 

I think she has chemistry with some but not with others. 

[wonderwall]

I think that was only talking about the chemistry concerning the romantic aspect of the show, not the show in general. IMO I agree that the show lucked out with EBR considering she's most probably going to be the female romantic lead (god I hope she's not just the romantic lead). Whatever Laurel and Oliver had couldn't be fixed and part of that is because of the zero chemistry between KC and SA (imo). Since this is the CW, romance is a must. Actually scratch that. I feel like a romance subplot is a must for these kind of shows because it grounds it, it keeps it relatable, it helps build characters up and tear them down if need be, it even makes characters more likable when they interact with their paramours.

 

Since romance is important and the two supposed leads don't have chemistry, the writers would've been in a bit of a bind if EBR didn't breathe life into Felicity Smoak. I feel like that's what was trying to say :) Hope that clarifies things!

Edited August 4, 2014 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, @wonderwall got it right [thank you!] -- I meant the huge chemistry problem between KC and SA, who were cast as the supposedly endgame romantic pairing, and weren't working from the pilot. EBR gave SA a screen partner that filled the void KC didn't fill wrt romantic beats/UST/etc. Everyone else had good to great chemistry, including KC with Blackthorne and Donnell.

[pootlus]

They also lucked out with David Ramsey (although how much is luck and how much good casting?). Diggle was one of the main things that got me through the dodgey early episodes of S1. David's warmth combined with spot-on delivery are awesome. I'd be intrigued to find out what went on in the casting process, which you don't tend to hear about unless it's for the leading man/lady.

[JayKay]

Wouldn't it probably just be some interns running the tumblr account?

[SmallScreenDiva]

Sorry, a little late to the tag discussion. The CW Arrow Tumblr page will change a tag if it gets any flak. There was one instance back in April where they reblogged a photoset of Oliver and Felicity in the second lair and they tagged it with "We have mastered the art of the OIicity tease" and a lot of fans reacted to that some in jest, some in anger about being strung along, etc. And the page changed the tag to "The Olicity tease is strong in this one." Not sure how that's any better but by the time the finale aired so fans had moved on. I found it interesting that they responded to it with a change.

 

You can see the original tags here.

And these are the photoset with the changed tags is on this page.

[wingster55]

Ok, I got it. Though I still don't agree that she solved any problem with chemistry..mainly because I don't feel there's an abundance between her and SA vs SA and KC.

IMO FYI. 

[dtissagirl]

The lastest video interview with Kreisberg from the SDCC press room confirms the producers saw the "insane chemistry" [his words, not mine] between EBR and Amell and then they ran with it. He goes on and on about it, even. Ultimately, the EPs saw the chemistry before anyone did, and since they keep mentioning it in interviews, I take it as fact rather than my being subjective.

http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-season-3-ep-andrew-kreisberg-on-oliver-and-felicity-and-their-date

[There are some spoilers in the video, but if you saw the S3 promo, it's all about stuff that's in there.]

Edited August 5, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wingster55]

I don't view chemistry as fact, even if most people see it.

If it was, then there wouldn't be famous love triangles a la Jack-Kate-Sawyer. Both sides saw chemistry within their ship. 

[Lokiberry]

 

I don't view chemistry as fact, even if most people see it.

If it was, then there wouldn't be famous love triangles a la Jack-Kate-Sawyer. Both sides saw chemistry within their ship.

Well, wasn't Kate supposed to have chemistry with both of those doofuses? I ask because I hated everybody involved in that mess.

 

Chemistry is in the eye of the beholder, no pairing is ever going to please everyone, but consensus tends to build up around one couple. That's not unsual, it happens all the time.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, sure, fans will see chemistry wherever they like, that's not my point. There hasn't even been a triangle that involves Laurel, Oliver and Felicity on the show so far -- the rivalry is in fandom, which is par for the course. But Felicity's role was improved from one episode to series regular because Oliver needed a pretty lady character to be cute/flirty/USTy with on screen, and Laurel wasn't cutting it. They tried it with Helena and McKenna too, but Felicity was the one the EPs figured out worked the best. The fact that the majority of the fandom agrees with them is just bonus.

[HighHopes]

If it was, then there wouldn't be famous love triangles a la Jack-Kate-Sawyer. Both sides saw chemistry within their ship.

 

I personally saw the chemistry between both of those ships, and it was more of who I liked together rather than who I thought had chemistry. In the case of Arrow, it was seeing all of the Oliver/Felicity (and some Oliver/Felicity/Diggle) gif sets on tumblr last summer that made me watch the show. So their chemistry brought be into a show that I originally rolled my eyes at when I first saw the promos of it during the first season. 

 

When you have chemistry between two characters that can make people start shipping them without even watching the show you don't not explore it. 

Edited August 5, 2014 by HighHopes