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S01.E01: All About Jazz


yeswedo
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I found it pretty amazing.  There was a sense of honesty here that I wasn't expecting.  Spent half of the episode choked up.  I'm so curious about what sort of impact this series will have.  There seemed to be quite a bit of support on Twitter.  I wasn't going to look but I just got too curious.  I think the photo challenge helped because the supportive tweets helped drown out the bigoted ones.  

 

Watch with tissues, for both the laughing and crying.  

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Between this show and "My Giant Life," I'm fairly depressed.  I believe the saying, "God never gives us any more than we can handle," but these women have an extremely hard road to go. 

 

My heart just breaks for Jazz and her parents -- I cannot even imagine.  When I first heard about the show a couple months ago, I mentioned it to my significant other, saying that we never heard about this kinda thing when we were growing up in the '50s & '60s.  He reminded me that indeed, we DID -- and recalled the case of "Christine Jorgensen."  She was born "George Jorgensen" at birth.  I'd totally forgotten about her. 

 

In any event, I will watch both shows next week and decide if I can continue.  However, they may be too heartbreaking for me. 

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I like Jazz. I think her sister's a bit camera concious - the way she talks - and the mother wears FAR too much makeup - esp for the hot FL sun. But overall, the family is refreshing.

And I like that they seem to be going slow with the physical aspect. Letting Jazz AND the doctor dictate the steps.

But I do have doubts that a 2 yr old asked when the fairy was going to take away her penis & give her a vagina. Two year olds barely speak, much less use those words.

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(edited)

This seems as fake as any other reality show -- what grandmother who, years ago, sought professional help to understand what it means that her grandchild is a transgender person just now learns that "tranny" is a slur, among other things - but if you're going to set up an overly-perfect cast with awkward exposition, this is a more worthy subject than most. 

 

The sad fact is we don't live in a world where anything less than this preternaturally delightful subject - and her family - could catch on in the same way, so I'm hopeful this show takes off and opens some eyes.  I also hope it gets a bit more nuanced as it progresses, and there are promo scenes suggesting that will be the case.

 

Watching Jazz falling victim to body insecurity and envy the same as any cisgender girl made for some of the most poignant moments for me.

Edited by Bastet
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But I do have doubts that a 2 yr old asked when the fairy was going to take away her penis & give her a vagina. Two year olds barely speak, much less use those words.

It's really common to have those doubts because being transgender is really hard to really imagine if one is not trans, aka cisgender.  At around two (earlier or later depending on the child), potty training is usually beginning.  Their anatomy vocabulary begins to include the names of their genitals.  What they call their genitals depends entirely upon what the parents teach.  Some two year olds will call their genitals peepee or gigi while some will call their genitals penis or vagina (of course, in a toddler voice, so barely intelligible except to the parents).  It's also the age where children become super interested in everyone else's bodies, which is how some toddlers will also know the words for genitals different from their own.  Again, what they call this part of the anatomy depends entirely on what the parents teach.  So, if you've heard a toddler say peepee or weiner or any other genital pet name, then it's easy to see how they can discuss them using a different word.

 

Mind, I don't really know what words the Jenningses used to teach their children about their genitals.  It could just be that they prefer not to use pet names for genitals when speaking on national tv.

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(edited)

 

But I do have doubts that a 2 yr old asked when the fairy was going to take away her penis & give her a vagina. Two year olds barely speak, much less use those words.

 

Typically, yes, but some kids are very verbal early on. And Jazz seems to be very articulate for her age in general, so I would not be surprised in the least if she were using complicated words and full sentences at a young age. Around our house, we used the correct names for things, including body parts, from birth with our kid. Which is to say, I actually do not have doubts.

 

Thank goodness there are some families like this. The trans world is full of stories of parents who would rather die than let their child express their gender identity if it differed from what they had hoped. 

Edited by bref
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It might also be relevant to note that one of the older kids was probably dealing with losing teeth so tooth fairy talk was likely happening a lot around the dinner table.  I think a toddler hearing about this cool fairy who takes away unwanted pieces of the body and leaves behind desired things would naturally wonder if there was a fairy that did it for other stuff.  So this combined with being at an age where she's learning vocab for genitals is why it strikes me as very realistic.

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Never mind top and bottom surgery, can we talk about the grandmother's facelift? Eeeeeee!

Seriously, I enjoy this family. I'm glad the doctor pointed out that all girls develop on their own schedule. (I'm a "normal" female and didn't get to an A cup until 14 yo, and B cup in college.) I do empathize in the boobs department.

I'm worried about how she says boys aren't attracted to her. I hope she realizes this show is doing a good service, again if TLC doesn't fuck it up.

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This reminded me of my family when I was a teen, with umpteen family jokes repeated at the dinner table, teasing, sibling rivalry and tons of support.  Since this is The Learning Channel, I learned that there are still normal families that function well, despite any challenges that may be thrown at them.  Jazz is a delight, and I wish I could let her know that there are plenty of girls, such as me, who didn't have one single date all through high school and hit their stride dating-wise in college. 

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It might also be relevant to note that one of the older kids was probably dealing with losing teeth so tooth fairy talk was likely happening a lot around the dinner table.  I think a toddler hearing about this cool fairy who takes away unwanted pieces of the body and leaves behind desired things would naturally wonder if there was a fairy that did it for other stuff.  So this combined with being at an age where she's learning vocab for genitals is why it strikes me as very realistic.

 

In a previous special on OWN (you can find it on YouTube), the family mentioned that Jazz's fairy idea came from a dream. I could definitely see a kid's mind doing that with the idea of the tooth fairy in their subconscious.

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Hey guys, here's the GLADD media reference re: trans language and this IS the policy here at PTV.

GLAAD Media Reference Guide - AP & New York Times Style
In recent years, the nation's leading media style books have published guidelines for language and terminology use when reporting on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender lives, issues and stories.
The Associated Press and The New York Times both restrict usage of the term "homosexual" - a word whose clinical history and pejorative connotations are routinely exploited by anti-gay extremists to suggest that lesbians and gay men are somehow diseased or psychologically and emotionally disordered. Editors at the AP and New York Times also have instituted rules against the use of inaccurate terminology such as "sexual preference" and "gay lifestyle."
Following are the LGBT-related editorial guidelines from The Associated Press and The New York Times as they appear in their respective style guides.
gay Used to describe men and women attracted to the same sex, though lesbian is the more common term for women. Preferred over homosexual except in clinical contexts or references to sexual activity. Include sexual orientation only when it is pertinent to a story, and avoid references to "sexual preference" or to a gay or alternative "lifestyle."
lesbian See gay.
husband, wife Regardless of sexual orientation, husband or wife is acceptable in all references to individuals in any legally recognized marriage.
transgender Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth. If that preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly. See transsexual.
transsexual A person who changes gender by undergoing surgical procedures. See transgender.
bisexual. Do not use the slang shorthand bi.
homosexuality. See bisexual; gay; lesbian; sexual orientation.
gay (adj.) is preferred to homosexual in most references. Generally confine homosexual in specific references to sexual activity or clinical orientation. Gay may refer to homosexual men or more generally to homosexual men and women. In specific references to women, lesbian is preferred. When the distinction is useful, write gay men and lesbians. Do not use gay as a singular noun. As a noun, the plural gays is acceptable, but avoid the singular gay. Also see sexual orientation.
gay rights. Advocates for gay issues are concerned that the term may invite resentment by implying "special rights" that are denied other citizens; the advocates prefer phrases like equal rights or civil rights for gay people. But the shorter phrase is in wide use and often indispensable for confined headlines. When it occurs, define the issues precisely.
homosexuality. See bisexual; gay; lesbian; sexual orientation.
lesbian (adj. and n.). Lowercase except in the names of organizations. Lesbian women is redundant. See sexual orientation.
L.G.B.T. Except in quotations and organization names, seek alternatives to this cumbersome abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender. (Take care, however, not to inadvertently exclude relevant information; for example, if antidiscrimination legislation specifically applies to bisexual and transgender people, avoid suggesting that it only affects gay people.) If the abbreviation is necessary as a first reference, deftly explain it at some point. Note that some groups use G.L.B.T. instead. Do not use other, less familiar variations that include additional categories.
same-sex marriage, gay marriage. Both terms are acceptable, though the former is sometimes preferred to make clear that the expression covers both gay men and lesbians. Normally use wife or husband for people who are legally married. (Spouse is also accurate for either partner in any legal marriage, but do not use it simply to avoid husband and wife for same-sex couples.)
sex changes. See transgender.
sexual orientation. Never sexual preference, which carries the disputed implication that sexuality is a matter of choice. Cite a person's sexual orientation only when it is pertinent and its pertinence is clear to the reader. Also see bisexual; gay; lesbian; straight.
sexual preference. Use sexual orientation instead.
straight, meaning heterosexual, is classed as slang by some dictionaries and standard by others. Avoid any use that conveys an in-group flavor. But use the term freely (adj. only) in phrases drawing a contrast with gay: The film attracted gay and straight audiences alike.
transgender (adj.) is an overall term for people whose current identity differs from their sex at birth, whether or not they have changed their biological characteristics. Cite a person's transgender status only when it is pertinent and its pertinence is clear to the reader. Unless a former name is newsworthy or pertinent, use the name and pronouns (he, his, she, her, hers) preferred by the transgender person. If no preference is known, use the pronouns consistent with the way the subject lives publicly.
Transgender is generally preferable to the older transsexual. Do not use the offensive slang tranny.
Transvestite is outdated and often viewed as offensive. Use cross-dresser instead to describe someone of either sex who sometimes dresses in clothing associated with the opposite sex. Note that cross-dressing does not necessarily indicate that someone is gay or transgender.

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Talking about transgender people and their genitals and saying that how they identify is "wrong" according to their genitalia is offensive and reductive. Please keep your comments to actual show content. If your post is missing it's probably under mod review for language issues. Please refer to the GLADD media guide above for language questions and feel free to PM any of the mods if you have an issue. 

Thanks.

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Basically we're asking you to educate yourself re: some of these issues. Here's a good link for helping people understand why some of the questions they ask are offensive. If you have questions google them and then post when you think you have a handle on how not to be offensive.

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From my Wikipedia reading I think the term androphilic is ok to use as an adjective for someone who is attracted to men.

To be fair, Jazz is pretty young. She seems interested in males being interested in her. I don't remember if she said she's interested in a specific male.

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I wonder about the long term physical effects of suppressing her puberty and starting her on hormones so young. Have there been any studies done on this? Is this going to effect her physically 20 or 30 years down the road? I truly hope this question isn't offensive. That's just what was going through my mind when the Dr. said she's showing no signs of male puberty.

I just hope she won't have issues down the road.

She's a beautiful girl. She's lucky to have the supportive family she has, I love that the grandparents did research on transgender people so they wouldn't do the wrong thing.

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I consider Jazz to be a "real" girl. In her mind, heart and soul, she's a girl and I respect and honor that. I'm saying that teenage boys and many men won't want to date a woman who still has a male appendage.

 

I believe Jazz already knows this because (and correct me if I am wrong) didn't she say something to the effect of "...guess I'll just be a virgin"?

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Talking about the possibility of bottom surgery someday she said, "I don't want to die a virgin!", then cracked herself up saying, "why do I say these things". Really showcased her good nature.

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(edited)

Talking about the possibility of bottom surgery someday she said, "I don't want to die a virgin!", then cracked herself up saying, "why do I say these things". Really showcased her good nature.

That scene was totally endearing. Hope she - and TLC - continue to let us see more of that sweet girl.

Edited by RealityCowgirl
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(edited)

Something about the mother I just dont like.The chat with Jazzs grandparents was very staged also,"you dont say the word tranny" was the response to Grandads remark.So are you telling me he only just discovered that after 14 years,and with TLCs camera crew there?

 

Me and my partner sat with our mouths open at grandma,even with the facelift she looked a hundred,yes even with that mountain of jet black hair...

Edited by kandinski
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To slightly change the subject: I love Jazz and think she's amazingly mature and grounded, not to mention beautiful. But oh, how sad that identifying as a girl includes such overwhelming body self-consciousness and loathing. I'm not talking about male genitalia, but her concerns that her boobs are too small, her figure is not an hourglass and (absurd!) her stomach is too fat. Jazzie girl, welcome to womanhood!

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(edited)

To slightly change the subject: I love Jazz and think she's amazingly mature and grounded, not to mention beautiful. But oh, how sad that identifying as a girl includes such overwhelming body self-consciousness and loathing. I'm not talking about male genitalia, but her concerns that her boobs are too small, her figure is not an hourglass and (absurd!) her stomach is too fat. Jazzie girl, welcome to womanhood!

Comparing her boobs size to that of her friends to the point of knowing that she's the second smallest is so typical of a girl her age. That scene cracked me up and I said the same thing. She's definitely female in every way.

She's an adorable girl, just cute as quickly button and so well spoken. I have no doubts that she will find the right guy when it's time. She has so much to offer, she'll be just fine.

I agree with krandinski. Something about Jazz's mom that I really didn't like. I can't quite put my finger on what it is but something about her rubbed me the wrong way.

I love that she lets Jazz be who she is, not many parents would do that and I applaud her for that. Maybe she just seems a little too pleased with herself or something, I don't know. I just didn't like her very much.

Edited by Maharincess
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I could be completely wrong about this, but I thought the grandmother was trying to make a sarcastic joke when she asked if they could use the word "tranny."  

 

It was nice to see how much support Jazz has from her entire family.

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I saw Jazz's mother as a protective mama bear who is dedicated to protecting her child from bullying and misunderstanding. She seemed a tad high strung maybe but I can actually understand why she would be. She has a lot to figure out, too. In any case, her kids all seem pretty cool, so it would seem she has some good parenting skills.

 

 

And believe me, many "cis females" find Caitlyn Jenner saying "I'm a woman now" to be just as offensive as she would find anyone else saying, "You're not an actual woman."

 

I don't want to get into a whole thing, but I really don't understand this. How Caitlyn identifies herself ("I'm a woman") doesn't really seem to be anyone else's business--I certainly don't see how it affects anyone who is a stranger to her--whereas someone saying "You are not a woman" is a direct insult to her own sense of self. It's cruel and needless.

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Finally watched after reading all parts of this forum (I love doing that, no I don't read the last page of a book first). Anyway, love Jazz and her family, they seem to have handled a unique situation with grace. Kudos to her family. Kudos also to Jazz's group of friends, so glad she has them, and just think how open minded and empathetic they may grow up to be. I did appreciate how her mom said they spoke with the parents of her friends telling them about Jazz. I do hope she gave the parents time to research, ask questions and ponder if they want their child being friends with Jazz. I am a teacher, and the ones I teach are very young and tend not to get hung up on things we adults do. My PreKers would have welcomed four year old Jazz unconditionally. Excited to see more!

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There is something off about the mother and I'm not sure what. Maybe she just likes to hear herself talk.

 

However I'd like to bring up that I found it refreshing that that the mother said we are not talking to Jazz about surgery at this time because it seems uncomfortable for her and that is sometime down the road, we have enough to deal with now. On the other hand, on that show, Growing up Trans, one of the mothers kept bringing up bottom surgury to the 8 year old transgender girl! She kept saying "yes it's going to hurt, your penis is inside out, your penis is a birth defect"! Unbelievable! Then the girl is afraid of shots and the mother kept saying to her "you are going to have to get shots to stay a woman!" It was so unneccesary at age 8! The mind of an 8 year old does not understand not want to discuss in detail bottom surgery! 

 

On this subject I did like how Jazz said she was not sure about it now, that she was used to her body the way it is and that it is a major decision. 

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Jazz's grandmother comes from a different era/time.  Interesting to learn that transvestite has finally fallen out of use, replaced by cross-dresser.  When I was younger, "tranny" was an abbreviation for transvestite, trans gender wasn't in use, so maybe that word came to her grandmother's mind in discussion only to be shot down by the mother.

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Something about the mother I just dont like.The chat with Jazzs grandparents was very staged also,"you dont say the word tranny" was the response to Grandads remark.So are you telling me he only just discovered that after 14 years,and with TLCs camera crew there?

 

Funny, I thought the grandparents were adorable.  The one thing in that scene I could not get over was the enormous portions of food on each of their plates.  What a waste! 

 

I liked the show overall.  Jazz is very sweet and charismatic.  

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I work with a dad who's child began transitioning around the age of 7 or so a few years ago. I admit, I was confused at first, because the child was so young. Then it occurred to me that I would never question a child who realizes they are gay at that age, and I shouldn't question this either. The benefits of beginning the transition so young far outweigh any "concerns" I might have. Because they really aren't concerns. They were judgments and ignorance on my part. The guy I work with is extremely intelligent, and I have no doubt a ton of thought has, is, and will be given to making sure his child lives a happy, healthy life. 

 

Jazz is adorable, and I really like the rest of her family, too, especially her brothers. Mom doesn't bother me except for all the bronzer. It is a reality show on TLC so a fair amount will come across as overly scripted, but I think there's enough truth here to be extremely valuable. 

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Between this show and "My Giant Life," I'm fairly depressed.  I believe the saying, "God never gives us any more than we can handle," but these women have an extremely hard road to go. 

 

My heart just breaks for Jazz and her parents -- I cannot even imagine.  When I first heard about the show a couple months ago, I mentioned it to my significant other, saying that we never heard about this kinda thing when we were growing up in the '50s & '60s.  He reminded me that indeed, we DID -- and recalled the case of "Christine Jorgensen."  She was born "George Jorgensen" at birth.  I'd totally forgotten about her. 

 

In any event, I will watch both shows next week and decide if I can continue.  However, they may be too heartbreaking for me. 

I remember reading about tennis player Renee Richards ,probably in the 70s, when I was little too.

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I will say that dislike Jazz's mom for seeking out the spotlight. I don't really like the idea of child stardom, but especially in this case given the prevalence of violence against transgender people, this show seems like a bad idea.

This confuses me. When I heard this show was coming on, I was already aware of Jazz and her family because they live in the same county I do and had been on the news way before, except they hid the child's actual name and identity. Now the child is in the spotlight (parents' names and locations changed again). The episodes took place in a different county than where the family actually lives (I know that reality shows are staged but the restaurant scene was probably 10-15 miles from where the family lived and I suspect the comments made by the passers-by were a set up also - not to say it hasn't happened but why stage it? Why not just explain it?) IMHO the mom is setting a very crafted approach in how she "markets" her child which is no different than Kris Jenner and the Kardashian clan. She wants a perfect edited world for her child.  

 

And having raised two teenage girls - they didn't spend all their time talking about their hair, their clothes, their boobs, etc. They were busy with school, sports, friends, church, part time work, volunteering, etc. Their friends were the same way. Perhaps if more emphasis was placed on things other than physical appearance, it might be an easier road for Jazz. Again JMHO. 

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I feel that we have given wide latitude to education on this subject and we have now strayed too far from the episode at hand. Please keep your comments to the episode itself not your questions about the doctors and their decisions. It's not the trans community's job to educate you. You've been given resources here, please use them.

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(edited)

radishcake,

I appreciate your wisdom. May we move these discussions that come up to small talk? I see that topic on all shows, but rarely venture there so I am really not up on it. I have read up on all links posted and appreciate quick the guidelines on what to do and not do when discussing transgender people. Thank youI

Edited by jacksgirl
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You know what jacksgirl that's a great idea. We can declutter the episode thread and move some of these questions to new thread. Small Talk is not really the right spot but I'll do an "education" topic. :) Thanks and guys look for that new thread if you are missing something here.

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I wonder about the long term physical effects of suppressing her puberty and starting her on hormones so young. Have there been any studies done on this? Is this going to effect her physically 20 or 30 years down the road? I truly hope this question isn't offensive. That's just what was going through my mind when the Dr. said she's showing no signs of male puberty.

I just hope she won't have issues down the road.

She's a beautiful girl. She's lucky to have the supportive family she has, I love that the grandparents did research on transgender people so they wouldn't do the wrong thing.

Jazz is extremely pretty, and if she hasn't had any hormone treatments yet looks like she does, then I think that 'yes' she was suppose to be born a girl and something went wrong .

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Jazz is extremely pretty, and if she hasn't had any hormone treatments yet looks like she does, then I think that 'yes' she was suppose to be born a girl and something went wrong .

I thought she was already taking hormones.  She was talking about increasing them to make her breasts bigger, but her doctor said that would stunt her growth, so she said she would wait.

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(edited)

I've watched just the one episode so far since I've seen this in the media so much.  I don't know that I would have approved a tv show if I was her parents.  It's okay if an adult transgender person decided to have a show, I mean an ordinary person and not a sensationalized reality tv celebrity like Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner.  But she's just 14, and I'd be worried with all the hate crimes out there.  Maybe TLC gives them some free security, but still.

 

The show itself follows the exact same formula as so many other TLC reality shows,  from the Duggars to Little People Big World.  The conversations have that scripted feel, especially the ones with the grandparents.  But such is the way of "reality" tv I guess.

Edited by Dobian
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I've watched just the one episode so far since I've seen this in the media so much.  I don't know that I would have approved a tv show if I was her parents.  It's okay if an adult transgender person decided to have a show, I mean an ordinary person and not a sensationalized reality tv celebrity like Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner.  But she's just 14, and I'd be worried with all the hate crimes out there.  Maybe TLC gives them some free security, but still.

 

The show itself follows the exact same formula as so many other TLC reality shows,  from the Duggars to Little People Big World.  The conversations have that scripted feel, especially the ones with the grandparents.  But such is the way of "reality" tv I guess.

Maybe her parents approved because surgery & hormone treatments must cost thousands & thousands of dollars

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Maybe her parents approved because surgery & hormone treatments must cost thousands & thousands of dollars

 

 

Yeah I'm sure it's in the tens of thousands of dollars and into the six figures if they elect surgery.

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Assuming no severe complications, surgeries will not cost anywhere into the six figures.  Not that they aren't expensive, often prohibitively so.  But we're looking at five figures, not six.  

 

The Jennings' and Jazz specifically have been in the public eye off and on since Jazz was six, so I assume they have already learned how to navigate the additional harassment this brings.  

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I wonder about the long term physical effects of suppressing her puberty and starting her on hormones so young. Have there been any studies done on this? Is this going to effect her physically 20 or 30 years down the road? I truly hope this question isn't offensive. That's just what was going through my mind when the Dr. said she's showing no signs of male puberty.

I just hope she won't have issues down the road.

She's a beautiful girl. She's lucky to have the supportive family she has, I love that the grandparents did research on transgender people so they wouldn't do the wrong thing.

 

I think Jazz said that if the hormones are stopped, she will go into male puberty. I imagine taking estrogen will put her at risk for typical female hormone-related health issues. Nothing beyond that, I hope.

 

Jazz is adorable, and I like the family. They seem pretty comfortable with the media, so I hope this show works out for them and doesn't descend into reality show horror. 

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