S02.E09: And Hell Itself My Only Foe

[Dobian]

I don't get how these people expect to get away with locking Caliban behind bars and putting him on display.  Even if he doesn't have enough strength to break out (though I'm guessing he does), all he has to do is say to the first visitors who come down there that he's being held prisoner and please bring the police.  But God help his captors once he's free.  At least Blindy will never know what hit her.

 

I expect after all this is done, Caliban will fly into a rage on his poetry books after two women now have mocked his pickup-by-poetry angle.

 

I don't think Ethan killed Sembene, they would have showed him tearing his throat out.  More likely that the wolfman understands that Sembene is not his prey and let him live.

 

It was great seeing Prometheus again, even if it was fake hallucination Prometheus.

 

Most of this episode was just setup for the finale, though I again fear for Mr. Lyle.  He just has "doom" written all over him.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Dobian

[raven]

 

What they have is rather fraternal with a side of teasing on her part, but there's a little frisson because they aren't actually related, and they know it.

This is something I really enjoy about the show, that we have this genuine closeness between friends.  It's why I hope that Vanessa isn't Malcom's biological daughter, I love the idea of them having that kind of relationship without a blood tie.  I think the show plays a little loose with the terminology, Evelyn calls Hecate and the other witches "daughter" but I don't think she means they're her biological daughters.

 

I'm not surprised Vanessa took off to storm the castle, she's protective of her family and won't let Malcolm suffer longer then necessary.  She can be afraid but she was angry here and confident.  Malcolm is the rushes in type, so his actions didn't surprise me either, though I did wonder how he figured out it was Evelyn.  Maybe he remembered the pin prick she gave him, we know he felt it afterwards.  I wonder if there's something on the cutting room floor about that.

 

 

I laughed hysterically when the group split up into Victor & Lyle, and Ethan & Sembene. Haha, Victor and Lyle are the MOST useless, though adorable. I was half afraid Victor would accidentally shoot Lyle.

Hee, I had the same thought, the two badasses together and then remembered that Sembene knew it was time for Ethan to wolf out.  Wouldn't want one of the kids getting hurt, so he took wolf watch duty :((  Speaking of which, I don't think Sembene could escape the staircase, I thought Hecate sealed them together knowing Ethan would wolf out.  If Sembene could have escaped to another room, I think he would have.

[absolutelyido]

Speaking of Sembene did you guys notice he didn't try to run away from Ethan?  He just sat there and let him attack him, as if he wanted to die?  He had an escape route (I think) he could have gotten away or at least tried to but IDK, it seemed like he wanted to die.  *shrug*

Sembene didn't have a way to escape. Doors came down at both the top and the bottom of the stairs so they were trapped in the stairwell. The only way Sembene could have escaped death was to shoot Ethan or allow Ethan to shoot himself, which he refused to do. (Sembene took the gun from Ethan after Ethan tried to shoot himself.)

 

I'm sad Ethan is back in the city, because his country wardrobe was everything. His reaction of "Oh, for fuck's sake" when told that Vanessa had gone off on her own was amazing. I rewound three times.

I think "Oh for fuck's sake" should have been the episode title.

[Ravenya003]

After he admitted that, I started taking note of our "heroes" sins.

 

Sir Malcolm raped his way through a good part of Africa.

Sembene was a slave trader.

Ethan committed genocide.

 

That just leaves Vanessa and Victor.  I remember Vanessa sleeping with Mina's fiance but that's pretty weak compared to the others.  And Victor worst act seems to be abandoning Caliban, which honestly seemed to be more out of fear than malice.  Heck even killing Brona wasn't really evil in my opinion.  So should Vanessa and Victor have something in their past as horrific as the other three?

 

 

Frankenstein's sins are that he's playing around with life and death and refusing to learn anything from it. Running away from Caliban? Okay fine. But then he goes ahead and creates ANOTHER creature, despite what happened the first time around. And then Caliban turns up and kills Proteus as a direct result of Victor's neglect. And then Caliban continues to run around murdering innocent people (RIP Van Helsing) because he demands a mate. Instead of seeking out law enforcement or putting an end to his creature (because Victor is all about evading responsibility) he goes ahead and murders a woman (yes, it was murder) to give to Caliban as a girlfriend, breaking several consent laws in the process by brainwashing Lily into believing she's someone she's not. 

 

Victor has sins a plenty, and he faces them by injecting himself with morphine. So personally I'd say he's on par with Malcolm, Sembene and Ethan, especially if you consider him indirectly responsible for all the carnage his "children" are leaving in their wake. 

[LittleIggy]

I do love Hecate's hair when she is at Witch Central.

[darkestboy]

That was an interesting episode. Surprised they glossed over Lyle's betrayal or that other guy after Ethan being killed so quickly but at least other things were dealt with.

I'm hoping that Ethan didn't kill Sembene at the end of the episode but I have a horrible feeling he might have done. Or possibly turned Sembene as well.

Loved Vanessa's scenes with Victor and the confrontation with her, Evelyn and Hecate as well during the final quarter of the episode. Hecate and Evelyn might just end up killing each other though.

The Lily and Dorian stuff seems like they're being set up as antagonists for the next season.

I still find Caliban annoying but even I felt sorry for him this week. Hoping that awful family are dealt with in the finale.

Both Malcolm and Victor got tortured/haunted by their families and failings. Oh dear, 8/10

[Maum]

Loved Vanessa's scenes with Victor and the confrontation with her, Evelyn and Hecate as well during the final quarter of the episode. Hecate and Evelyn might just end up killing each other though.

 

That exchange was hilarious. Hecate was being all smug about kissing Ethan. Vanessa and Evelyn were both glaring at her disdainfully.

I swear I was expecting Evelyn to turn to Vanessa and be all 'kids these days.... Sorry about that'

Edited July 2, 2015 by Maum

[anamika]

Does Sir Malcolm live in a gated community?

 

I am confused about timings. When Ethan, Vanessa and Victor get back to Sir Malcolm's it was day time. And it was still day when Victor was shootin up and having a conversation with Vanessa. So why did they not all get their guns and go immediately to rescue Malcolm. Why wait till the night or next day morning.  What's with the procastination. Is the castle somewhere far away?

[rubinia]

 

It was great seeing Prometheus again, even if it was fake hallucination Prometheus.

Just a nitpick, but I think the name is Proteus.

 

I have a MAJOR hair crush on Hecate.

[MsChipper]

Yup, his name was Proteus, taken from one of Shakespeare's books. :)

 

Also - I hope Wolf!Ethan doesn't kill Sembene and has some sense that he should use his wolfy powers to break down that stupid door and kill Hecate.

[maczero]

Frankenstein's sins are that he's playing around with life and death and refusing to learn anything from it. Running away from Caliban? Okay fine. But then he goes ahead and creates ANOTHER creature, despite what happened the first time around. And then Caliban turns up and kills Proteus as a direct result of Victor's neglect. And then Caliban continues to run around murdering innocent people (RIP Van Helsing) because he demands a mate. Instead of seeking out law enforcement or putting an end to his creature (because Victor is all about evading responsibility) he goes ahead and murders a woman (yes, it was murder) to give to Caliban as a girlfriend, breaking several consent laws in the process by brainwashing Lily into believing she's someone she's not. 

 

Victor has sins a plenty, and he faces them by injecting himself with morphine. So personally I'd say he's on par with Malcolm, Sembene and Ethan, especially if you consider him indirectly responsible for all the carnage his "children" are leaving in their wake. 

I guess I look at Victor's sins based more on arrogance than malice.  Trying to cheat death isn't something I'd say is evil.  As for not learning from past mistakes, well he did make an effort to "raise" Lily and Proteus so I wouldn't say he's just making monsters and unleashing them on the world.  

 

I am confused about timings. When Ethan, Vanessa and Victor get back to Sir Malcolm's it was day time. And it was still day when Victor was shootin up and having a conversation with Vanessa. So why did they not all get their guns and go immediately to rescue Malcolm. Why wait till the night or next day morning.  What's with the procastination. Is the castle somewhere far away?

The original plan was to go in the morning.  Vanessa said to herself "fuck that" and left on her own shortly before dark.  The rest of the boys couldn't bare to let Vanessa fend for herself so it was now dark when the rest of the crew goes after her.

Edited July 1, 2015 by maczero

[BuddhaBelly]

 

I am confused about timings. When Ethan, Vanessa and Victor get back to Sir Malcolm's it was day time. And it was still day when Victor was shootin up and having a conversation with Vanessa. So why did they not all get their guns and go immediately to rescue Malcolm. Why wait till the night or next day morning.  What's with the procastination. Is the castle somewhere far away?

 

It was most likely a few days later when they arrived since getting back to London from the moors is bound to take longer than a few hours. I imagine it was late afternoon when they arrived and they wanted to buy themselves as much daylight as possible, hence waiting for daybreak. Less chance of being caught in the monster's lair once the sun sets. 

[kieyra]

I dread it too. Billie Piper's big, prognathic mouth gives me nightmares. Why is it that Caliban is icy cold and does look like a reanimated corpse whereas Bronilly can pass for regular human? And why is she so eloquent now? Caliban educated himself whereas suddenly the ex-prostitute talks like a lady and uses big words.

 

I don't remember the details of S1, but I've been fanwanking that Mr. Clare's body was more decomposed before Vic got ahold of him. 

 

I suppose I further fanwanked that zombification is unpredictable.

 

Additionally, actresses with unusual features still get to be actresses. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by kieyra

[raven]

 

I guess I look at Victor's sins based more on arrogance than malice.  Trying to cheat death isn't something I'd say is evil.

I think Victor's religion is science.  In his mind, he's furthering knowledge so it's OK.  Science is his addiction as well.   He's been participating in the supernatural events but how that might conflict with his science hasn't been discussed that I recall.  It's interesting that he seems at ease with both worlds.

 

He's afraid of Caliban/Clare but I think he does feel morally responsble for him; he let things get away from him and tries to make it right but fails because he's not learning from his mistakes; maybe subconciously because he wants to raise up someone who would be "normal".  He keeps reacting rather than trying to figure out what went wrong.  He might go in that direction tho when he realizes what Brona/Lily has been up to.  It could be a supernatural problem rather than scientific, which would bring in the rest of the group.

Edited July 2, 2015 by raven

[absolutelyido]

I re-watched part of the episode again tonight, and when Sembene came into Ethan's room to tell him Vanessa had left, Ethan was reading a book that appeared to be the Bible** which I hadn't noticed before. Interesting that his reaction to Hecate's visit was to turn to the Bible. I think Ethan is much more religious than he lets on.

 

**When Vanessa slept in Ethan's room in one of the earlier S2 episodes, the next morning when Ethan awoke on the sofa, Vanessa had already left and she had fixed the bed and left a book that looked like the Bible against the pillow. I assumed it was Ethan's Bible that she had found in the room. It looked like he was reading that same book when Sembene came to his room.

[BuddhaBelly]

I think Ethan is faithful but like Vanessa said, full of doubt. His level of faith is one of the more interesting aspects of Ethan.

This has been bothering me. Hecate said that she was able to enter the house because she didn't believe in the trinkets of faith they used to ward the house, but she works for the Devil... which should mean she believes that God exists, so why didn't any Judeo-Christian symbols prevent her from entering?

Edited July 2, 2015 by BuddhaBelly

[Slovenly Muse]

I wonder if Vanessa's insistence on going to save Sir Malcolm at night is based (at least partially) on the fact that now that she has delved into the dark magic, she is feeling more in tune with it, feeling some of the same power the Nightcomers do, feeling that she HERSELF is strongest at night when those magics are her weapons. I don't know why, but something in the way she prepared herself for battle gave me that impression. 

 

 

Additionally, actresses with unusual features still get to be actresses.

 

Thank you! Interestingly, I've never seen a complaint in this forum that a male actor's natural features are ruining anyone's viewing experience. Why is it that when a woman on television has traits that don't look identical to every OTHER woman on television, people take this as an invitation to ridicule her?

[attica]

Trying to cheat death isn't something I'd say is evil.

 

In the environment in which Shelley first wrote Frankenstein, the problem wasn't portrayed as 'cheating death' so much as it was Usurping the Province of God. It goes like this: Once you've died and (presumably) passed into the afterlife, nobody gets to call a mulligan. You gotta be Jesus to do that, and even he stopped after Lazarus. (Not counting himself, that is. But he didn't hang around the living once resurrected for long, right?)  The  christian god is a jealous god; he does not delegate. We still see this notion in sects like Christian Science and Jehovah's Witnesses, where medicine is shunned for being inappropriately god-like.

 

Hey: twelve credits of religious studies in college had to be good for something! :)

Edited July 2, 2015 by attica

[DarkRaichu]

I think Sembene's power is the healing ability his blood provides.  He was planning to let Wolf!Ethan drink his blood that night any way to give him some control over his wolfiness.

 

I definitely do not want to see Sembene die :(

[Maum]

Me neither. He is one of the more human and interesting characters.

 

I would rather watch him do the washing up and bake cakes than sit through Dorian and Lily's future mischief. Or Hecate's 'plotting'. Or Sir Malcolm's moaning about his children.

[tennisgurl]

Sembene is the best, and I will be heartbroken if he dies. 

 

Don`t you dare break my heart, show. I just posted on how much I trust you now, don`t you dare make me regret that! 

[spaceghostess]

*sigh* I'm afraid Sembene is well and truly dead, although I hope against hope this isn't the case. I got so excited when he revealed the reason for his scars; thought it was the first glimpse we'd see of a backstory which would unfold in season 3. I don't care if it's a hero's death, I'll be very disappointed if we've seen the last of Sembene.*

 

I didn't get to watch this episode until several days after it aired, but was on the edge of my sofa cushions once I finally had the chance. Loved the opening scene, once I pushed the fact that Ethan didn't wake up immediately when that troll came in through the window far to the back of my mind. The tag-team killing of Roper was simultaneously funny/crazy, horrifying, and beautifully timed and choreographed. It  reminded me of the scene in Hitchcock's Torn Curtain when Paul Newman and Liv Ullmann have to kill a bad-guy spy. The PD scene was quicker and less realistic, but the setup--a guy, a gal, and a mean dude who needs killin'--was the same, as was the absence of music with only sounds of violence as the soundtrack.

 

Also? Was anyone else imagining just how awkward things have been in the cabin since the "You have no soul now, stupid!" "I know-- shut up about it, already, damn!" argument. Looong silences, punctuated only by "pass the salt"; "I'm going out."; "Whatever."

 

Very pleased that the sweet blind girl turned out to be nasty, nasty, nasty--yay for trope subversion!  That said, I'm more sympathetic to Caliban/Clare than most people, I think. He never asked to be pieced together from various human parts and given life; he certainly never asked for his creator to desert him. Considering he's had nothing in the way of social training or nurturing except what he got from that nice old guy who first took him in, I'm kind of impressed he hasn't murdered more people. Eh, I just find it hard to hold him to "human" standards when his foundations have been so shaky from the get-go. Also, he was ready to do himself in last season, before Victor stayed his hand. Sure, C/C is a super-petulant, fairly stalkerish Victorian male, but then, he's sensitive enough to recognize a kindred spirit (Vanessa) when he sees one, and he's very respectful of that friendship, as far as we know. I feel like he has potential and was, I'll admit, a little bit sad that Lavinia, like Lily, pooped on his emo poetry love. And, tbh, the way he's lit like an angel in the opening credits predisposed me favorably towards him from the very beginning, and I continue to be enthralled by that image, so . . .

 

And speaking of Creatures great and small, welcome back, Proteus! It still tickles me that the only other role in which I've seen this actor is as a local goofball on Father Brown. Looking forward to Victor's children freaking him right the hell out in the "Dad, You Suck" Hallucination Room.

 

My heart broke at the end. That final scene, with Ethan's desperation and Sembene's resignation was so beautifully acted. Also loved the scene between Ethan and Inspector Rusk, with the Ethan Lawrence Talbot Easter egg. The io9 recap observed the awesomness of Ethan's slow turnaround reaction ("It's Monday, and he's still turning around."), and I must agree. 

 

Mr. Lyle and his Derringer = perfection. And I think he'll get to use it just as it was intended: in close quarters.

 

Bronily and Dorian: Considering her objective, I understand why her speech to Dorian was so similar to last week's to C/C. The interesting part is contrasting Dorian's thrilled reaction with C/C's somewhat freaked out one. Is Dorian a fallen angel--Lucifer, or his bloodthirsty counterpart? I keep going back to the Amonet/ Amon-Ra thing from last season. There must be something more than Lily tying Dorian into the rest of the story threads, right? Don't know, but I imagine their foreplay will mostly feature Bronily nipping off bits and pieces of Dorian, him regenerating them, sex, rinse, repeat.

 

And finally, my darling Vanessa: I forgive you for running off by yourself--you are, after all, a Victorian Gothic heroine. And had you not, we'd have been deprived of those most excellent, The Exorcist-y shots of you making the sign of the cross at the gate of Witch Castle, followed by your boys arranged in a similar nifty tableau. Looking forward to seeing you and Ethan tear down those witches. And please, please burn that doll room, mkthanks?

 

Did anyone else notice that there's a doll mummy in the doll room?! Heeeeee!! Loved that.

 

 

*Also, who the hell else could Sir Malcolm possibly find to run that crazy house and deal with all the assorted shenanigans that go down there on the regular?  It would be hilarious to see Ethan, Malcolm, and Vanessa try to keep up with the housework on their own.

[Darlyn]

Yes they are and I doubt it will stop anytime soon. Just last night, 3 shows, killed the only characters of color

(well, Falling Skies killed the only Black woman on the show -- and she was just a teenager -- boo)

.  Guess they thought we would ignore it as the BET Awards were on.  

 

I watch "Salem",

and they killed off "Tituba"...it was like a replay of Hitchcock's "The Birds". I expected that, though, and I don't miss her.

"Penny Dreadful" is too clever to go that route. I'm hoping that's the case. I never saw the scene where Sembene is yelling "KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!" at somebody. I'm hoping that's a clue he's not dead. 

[rozen]

I watch "Salem",

and they killed off "Tituba"...it was like a replay of Hitchcock's "The Birds". I expected that, though, and I don't miss her.

"Penny Dreadful" is too clever to go that route. I'm hoping that's the case. I never saw the scene where Sembene is yelling "KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!" at somebody. I'm hoping that's a clue he's not dead. 

Unfort, that was from last episode where Kali momentarily possesses (allows the master to possess?) Sir Malcom and Sembene chucks him into the dusty ballroom.

[Ravenya003]

I re-watched part of the episode again tonight, and when Sembene came into Ethan's room to tell him Vanessa had left, Ethan was reading a book that appeared to be the Bible** which I hadn't noticed before. Interesting that his reaction to Hecate's visit was to turn to the Bible. I think Ethan is much more religious than he lets on.

 

I recall a brief moment a few episodes back in which I'm sure he was kneeling by his bed to pray before Vanessa burst in.

 

This has been bothering me. Hecate said that she was able to enter the house because she didn't believe in the trinkets of faith they used to ward the house, but she works for the Devil... which should mean she believes that God exists, so why didn't any Judeo-Christian symbols prevent her from entering?

 

Perhaps she meant that the people already in the house didn't believe in them enough for them to work...? I dunno, it was an odd line. They should have just had her coming through the mirror and pointing out that nobody bothered to ward that entrance. 

 

The io9 recap observed the awesomness of Ethan's slow turnaround reaction ("It's Monday, and he's still turning around."), and I must agree. 

 

EVERYONE should be reading Genevieve Valentine's recaps. She's hilarious. 

[Maum]

Indeed. Thanks to this thread I binge read them all yesterday.

[spaceghostess]

Yup. I read hers for PD and Sleepy Hollow and they rule the school.

 

Eagerly awaiting tonight's finale (wish it could be 2 hours)!

Edited July 6, 2015 by spaceghostess

[Darlyn]

Unfort, that was from last episode where Kali momentarily possesses (allows the master to possess?) Sir Malcom and Sembene chucks him into the dusty ballroom.

 

Shoot! Well, I'm still hoping he's not dead. The finale leads us to believe he is indeed, but I won't let him go till Season 3 removes all doubt.

[paramitch]

I love this season so much. It's even richer than last season, and since what makes the show for me are all the beautiful and surprising connections between the characters, I loved this episode. Ethan and Vanessa. Vanessa and Victor. Ethan and Sembene! (SOB) 

 

And I'll say again:  Any scene with Sembene and Ethan is pure gold.

I agree. Watching their friendship grow so richly and quietly has been one of my favorite things about this season. I especially loved the moment when Sembene put his hand on Ethan's shoulder, and Ethan covered his hand with his own. It's something I always love about this show -- the characters are often very physically affectionate with each other in this lovely way that I tend to associate with Europeans.

 

It's good to see Ethan and Vanessa are pretty much ok after their tiff. I loved the way he held his hand out as they were being threatened and she quickly grabbed it. I also love that Vanessa never stands behind Ethan. She's either in front or right next to him as an equal.

That's one of my favorite things about how Vanessa is characterized. She's always brave and often seems to utterly disregard physical danger completely. It's such a unique POV and a welcome flip on the usual tropes.

 

My favorite part was Lyle saying the shema before entering the Witches' Castle. He lived his life in hiding but wanted to die as the person he truly is.

Words can't express how much I adore Ethan/Vanessa. I'm indifferent to them as an actual romantic pairing, but their friendship is marvelous and the writers have done an excellent job building that trust and acceptance between them. First, they're sharing cigarettes then putting up a literal united front then saying each other's first names during an argument. I also appreciated the Scoobies' non-reaction to their argument - they might not be kind people, but they never judge one another.

Oy for Dorian's knees and Bronlily's back. I guess nothing says "i can't die or feel pain" more than having sex on a marble floor. OUCH.

It can't be said enough: not Sembene!!!

 

I agreed with this entire post, and totally agree about Ethan and Vanessa. But then, I pretty much like all of Ethan's scenes. He almost always seems to bring out the best in the other characters, and I love how honest he is, with himself and others. It's a stark contrast to Victor, who lies to himself on a pretty nonstop basis I think (both about his addiction and about his culpability for John Clare and Lily).

 

I love the looks on Ethan's face when he gets philosophical, though. We see a side of Ethan with him that we don't see with the gang.

I like the cop scenes for the same reason as Ethan's scene with Hecate at the cafe. He's not just pretending to enjoy the moment, he actually is enjoying it -- the gamesmanship of it above all.

 

To me he was sacrificing himself for the cause. He says as much to Ethan when he stops him from killing himself.

The scene between Sembene and Ethan in the locked stairwell absolutely killed me, with Ethan so willing to die rather than hurt his friend, and Sembene's quiet insistence that Ethan's life was worth more (there was no right answer to that question but I do wish Sembene could have simply knocked Ethan out or something!). And it was the best acting I've ever seen from Hartnett. He's been a revelation in this role for me.

 

I also don't get when exactly everyone became aware of the fact that Evelyn/Madame Kali is the Grand High Witch that's been causing all the problems this season. 

I love the Roald Dahl reference! (hee) I thought that was odd as well, but I actually liked it -- there was no big revelation or dawning, "Ooooh, right it's Kali..." instead, we simply saw everyone basically coming to terms with it as if they had always known it. Which in a way, I think they had.

 

As a Victor/Vanessa fan, this season has been an absolute dream for me. The shopping trip, the promise that she'd take him out drinking if he gets dumped. Yes. Then came this episode's settee scene and I just about died. They are so beautiful together. I know it's platonic, but I love that, too. I just love watching them be so sweet together. What they have is rather fraternal with a side of teasing on her part, but there's a little frisson because they aren't actually related, and they know it. I think he plays it that he has a kernel of a crush on her but knows it's not going to happen and is totally cool with just being her little bro and friend, and she plays it like she knows and thinks it's cute but it's also not happening. 

 

I'm sad Ethan is back in the city, because his country wardrobe was everything. His reaction of "Oh, for fuck's sake" when told that Vanessa had gone off on her own was amazing. I rewound three times. 

 

I wonder how many takes Reeve Carney had to do to get the "I've held balls, as you know," line out with a straight face. 

I agree; I think Victor is a little in love with Vanessa, and that adds a wry, sad sweetness to their interactions for me, as of course she is very much aware of it, and very kind about it. 

 

I loved Ethan and Vanessa off camping in the Cut-Wife's cottage, and frankly in my mind I would watch a whole season of "Penny Dreadful" of the two of them living in that cottage, wearing fabulous sweaters and scarves, and solving local neighborhood crimes.

 

Very pleased that the sweet blind girl turned out to be nasty, nasty, nasty--yay for trope subversion!  That said, I'm more sympathetic to Caliban/Clare than most people, I think. He never asked to be pieced together from various human parts and given life; he certainly never asked for his creator to desert him. Considering he's had nothing in the way of social training or nurturing except what he got from that nice old guy who first took him in, I'm kind of impressed he hasn't murdered more people. Eh, I just find it hard to hold him to "human" standards when his foundations have been so shaky from the get-go. Also, he was ready to do himself in last season, before Victor stayed his hand. Sure, C/C is a super-petulant, fairly stalkerish Victorian male, but then, he's sensitive enough to recognize a kindred spirit (Vanessa) when he sees one, and he's very respectful of that friendship, as far as we know. I feel like he has potential and was, I'll admit, a little bit sad that Lavinia, like Lily, pooped on his emo poetry love. And, tbh, the way he's lit like an angel in the opening credits predisposed me favorably towards him from the very beginning, and I continue to be enthralled by that image, so . . .

 

That is one of my favorite moments from the opening credits, and you couldn't have described it more perfectly -- it's very affecting to me, that shot of Caliban/John Clare in the light. It's why I think he will end up firmly on the side of good. It's also the most interesting journey on the show to me -- he started out as a raging, childish monster, and over the past two seasons we've seen him discover his own humanity. To me he's a tragic figure. I'm very sorry he killed Van Helsing (and I was so enraged at the time -- DAVID WARNER, dammit!) -- but then again, I suspect that he himself is sorry for many of the things he's done at this point. I love him.

[dr pepper]

Ok, gamers, what's the rule?

 

DON'T!

SPLIT!

THE!

PARTY!

[millennium]

I would trade Bore-ian Gray for Sembene in a heartbeat.

The portrait reveal was a huge letdown, worse when it moved.

And Lily's long-winded, high-falutin' speeches ... so-Lily-quies, even ... just stop. 

I have to agree that Our Heroes made ridiculous, reckless blunders in this one.  Was Vanessa so oblivious that she didn't consider all her friends would follow once her absence was discovered?   Her single-mindedness put them all at risk and cost Sembene his life.

[Bruinsfan]

On 6/30/2015 at 1:08 PM, Fredward said:

The dinosaur died when the mammoths started hunting? Mammoth claws? Was that a thing back then? They thought mammoths were hunters? Or were sabrecats or something just called mammoths for a while? Cuz if it's kosher with the timeframe I still found it kinda funny. Hecate was trying to be all intimidating and stuff and she's comparing herself to a grazer.

As with her Not-New Englander accent and ruminations about the wrong states that tipped off Ethan, Hecate tries but is undone by her lack of attention to detail. My immediate thought was "Pumpkin, the mammoths came long after the dinosaurs were dust and "ruled" for a comparative eyeblink before we snuffed them out."