S05.E10: Mother's Mercy

[MrWhyt]

She isn't the former queen. Her title hasn't been removed. At best she's former queen regent and even that isn't clear yet based on what we've seen on the show.

 

 A queen's title isn't removed because she's a widow or because she's done a walk of a shame.

Her title might not have been removed but any semblance of power she had is done. Tommen is The King and his wife Margery is The Queen, Cersei is no longer in the line of power. If Tommen is old enough to marry then he's old enough to rule in his own name, with his Hand as his second.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Heh, Cersei is definitely the dowager queen as Marg so kindly pointed out earlier this season.

[Avaleigh]

Her title might not have been removed but any semblance of power she had is done. Tommen is The King and his wife Margery is The Queen, Cersei is no longer in the line of power. If Tommen is old enough to marry then he's old enough to rule in his own name, with his Hand as his second.

Possibly, but we certainly don't know that for sure. The last shot of Cersei in this episode suggested to me that she isn't totally down and out yet. 

 

There are people who have more power than she does but I don't think it's totally accurate to say that the Queen Mother is without power or influence especially when I think of figures of the past like Margaret Beaufort. 

[Cruella]

Why would Jaime turn around? If Myrcella isn't dead, than perhaps he'd try to get antidote, it makes sense, but otherwise, no. He has a royal hostage now, Tristane. If Jaime goes back, Doran, no matter how loyal towards Iron Throne, would take his son back and not let him go to royal family which wants revenge for Myrcella.

 

Of course, as nonsensical as this show can be, they'll completely ignore this and have Tristane be given seat at the Small Council and everything.

[NoWillToResist]

 I thought the scene had to be that long in order to work properly. If it had been short, it would have been far too easy for a viewer to just think, "Ha ha, Cersei! You got what was coming to you!" rather than being forced to confront the true ugliness and misogyny of what was going on..

 

Was it misogynistic though? Didn't the previous holy dude from the small council have the same treatment (stripped and marched through the city while people yelled and threw stuff at him)? Much as I am not on board with the puritanical nature of the Sparrows, they don't seem to discriminate based on gender or class.

 

Why would Jaime turn around? /snip/ He has a royal hostage now, Tristane. If Jaime goes back, Doran, no matter how loyal towards Iron Throne, would take his son back and not let him go to royal family which wants revenge for Myrcella.

 

I'm not crediting Jaime with being a great thinker and I could excuse him not thinking clearly due to grief, but I would have to laugh if he takes Tristane to KL so that they can punish him for someone else killing Myrcella. Because...um...isn't that the kind of fucked up, unfair thinking that got Myrcella killed? This 'eye for an eye' bullshit has to end with someone. Doran was willing to be the bigger man and showed immense faith by entrusting his son and heir to Jaime, whose "niece" was almost murdered by Ellaria. Hopefully Jaime emulates Doran, rather than Ellaria, and not punish an innocent for the crimes of another.

Edited June 20, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Captain Stable]

[..] since the Lannister Army is with Kevan at Casterleigh Rock and he doesn't seem the least bit interested in what is happening to Cersei and KL).  

Uncle Kevan is back at Kings Landing. He was there to "greet" her when she finished her walk.

That said, his son is a member of the Sparrows. A fairly prominent member of the Sparrows. If he helped her take revenge on them then he'll be harming his own. 

I could see him helping (from the sides) to remove The High Sparrow, in the hopes that Lancel would be promoted to High Sparrow, but he's only do that for the personal gain.

[Nonlinear]

Kit has chopped off his hair. So, he is not coming back next season? But then again Sam says to Olly that Jon Snow always comes back.

[Hecate7]

Why would Jaime turn around? If Myrcella isn't dead, than perhaps he'd try to get antidote, it makes sense, but otherwise, no. He has a royal hostage now, Tristane. If Jaime goes back, Doran, no matter how loyal towards Iron Throne, would take his son back and not let him go to royal family which wants revenge for Myrcella.

 

Of course, as nonsensical as this show can be, they'll completely ignore this and have Tristane be given seat at the Small Council and everything.

 

That is exactly why Jaime should turn around immediately. If Myrcella IS dead, it's much more urgent to return Trystane to his home country before a war can break out over the "hostage situation," than it is to get home to KL to bury Myrcella.

 

If Myrcella is dead there is no marriage pending with Trystane, which means there is no reason to bring him to KL to suffer Cersei's vengeful treatment at this time. It will merely create conflict and misery. Moreover, although Trystane was ready to marry Myrcella, and I do believe he loved her and they would have been happy, I get the impression just from watching Dornish behavior, that Trystane would have no qualms about killing Tommen to clear the way to the throne for himself and for Myrcella.

 

If Myrcella is alive, well, someone should know about the assassination attempt, but it will keep.

[Mz Anthrope]

When is Jorah going to come clean about his new 'condition' - gray-scale?  And when is it expected in the disease's progression that he's going to begin going batshit crazy?  I can just see him out there with hair boy searching for Danarys and the insanity begins.

 

And has Gilly been over swaddling Baby Sam??  The kid's not grown WHATSOEVER since they arrived at the wall.

 

Does the focus on these stories this season mean that we're going to getting back into the neglected storylines like Bran and Company?  Just a Hodor to all my Hodors, btw.

 

And I dig that GRRM really is into sex, but is the Sand Skanks story going to go anywhere?  I mean... with purpose?

 

Can we please see the Mountain back with Arya in some form?  I think I really enjoyed her character the most when those two were together.

 

And I am going to stop here because I feel like I am beginning to sound like the announcer at the end of the Batman tv show episodes...

[Lady S.]

Kit has chopped off his hair. So, he is not coming back next season? But then again Sam says to Olly that Jon Snow always comes back.

Huh? He got a haircut back in January or so, which is possibly when that EW interview took place, it would have made news again if he'd really lost his Jon Snow locks.

 

For comparison, here's what he looked like when he first the role, before the show made him grow his hair out.

 

Was it misogynistic though? Didn't the previous holy dude from the small council have the same treatment (stripped and marched through the city while people yelled and threw stuff at him)? Much as I am not on board with the puritanical nature of the Sparrows, they don't seem to discriminate based on gender or class.

The previous Pope-type and the former Queen Regent, but not "Brother" Lancel, the fornicator and kingslayer who got his knighthood through his sins. That feels like rank-based discrimination to me. And the people in the crowd were certainly misogynistic, with so many calling her all kinds of gendered slurs, the whore saying she'd only had half as many cocks as the queen (which I doubt, since Cersei's only had 3), the guy shouting about the royal tits, and the flasher telling her to suck him off, I don't remember any of that kind of sexualized vitriol happening with the High Septon. And there's just something generally ugly about trying to humble someone through sexual humiliation. Not that I feel too sorry for Cersei, since she would have gladly seen the same done to Marg or any other female rival, but this was punishment for the least of her crimes and it's scary to think this could have happened if seducing Lancel really was her only crime.

[WearyTraveler]

Can we please see the Mountain back with Arya in some form?  I think I really enjoyed her character the most when those two were together.

 

Arya wasn't with The Mountain (Gregor Clegane), she was with The Hound (Sandor Clegane), who is The Mountain's younger brother.

[hypnotoad]

 

When the White Walkers come to call, I hope they take out Thorne and that little bastard Olly!

 

Yeah this whole thing with the Nights Watch bitching about the wildings killing their brothers. Hey guys you killed a lot of wildings too! I just don't believe that none of them seem to understand or believe the danger coming for them. Like okay Jon didn't tell anyone, but you can't tell me none of the other Nights Watch dudes that were at Hardhome didn't talk! I have a hard time buying this absolute refusal to see what is coming and what needs to happen to help.

 

 

Ellaria is now on my hate list, not that I was attached to Myrcella but to kill an innocent girl to avenge a man who died in a fair fight.

 

Right? Oberyn volunteered to fight with the Mountain. He wasn't tricked into it. And he lost the fight because he didn't end it when he had the chance. I don't really see what Myrcella has to do with it. Plus, they had her there for ages - why not poison her then?!?

 

On the other hand:

 

 

Ellaria, okay that wasn't cool but the Lannisters have fucked over so many innocents and never gave a shit, karma is a bitch and sometimes it's unfair

 

It's hard not to agree with that!!

Edited June 22, 2015 by hypnotoad

[izabella]

Why would Jaime turn around? If Myrcella isn't dead, than perhaps he'd try to get antidote, it makes sense, but otherwise, no. He has a royal hostage now, Tristane. If Jaime goes back, Doran, no matter how loyal towards Iron Throne, would take his son back and not let him go to royal family which wants revenge for Myrcella.

 

Of course, as nonsensical as this show can be, they'll completely ignore this and have Tristane be given seat at the Small Council and everything.

 

I don't know that Jamie would be the one making any decisions about what the ship does.  If anyone would, it would be Tristane since it is a Dornish ship with Dornish sailors.  Jamie and Bronn arrived in Dorne via someone else's boat - that guy that one of the Sand Snakes buried in the sand with his head sticking out, and then killed.

 

Am I wrong and that's not a Dornish ship they are on?

[proserpina65]

but not "Brother" Lancel, the fornicator and kingslayer who got his knighthood through his sins.

 

Lancel apparently freely confessed to his sins and presumably did penance.  Cersei had to be arrested and imprisoned before she confessed to anything, and then only to sleeping with Lancel; her punishment was for the only sin to which she's admitted, and even then, her admission was hardly freely done.  (Not saying I agree with Lancel not being punished harshly, but this is the thinking behind the situation, I believe.)

[Avaleigh]

Lancel apparently freely confessed to his sins and presumably did penance.  Cersei had to be arrested and imprisoned before she confessed to anything, and then only to sleeping with Lancel; her punishment was for the only sin to which she's admitted, and even then, her admission was hardly freely done.  (Not saying I agree with Lancel not being punished harshly, but this is the thinking behind the situation, I believe.)

If Lancel was punished then we should have seen the punishment because from my perspective it seems like he confessed and then was petted and taken in and encouraged to harass anyone who isn't apart of this new movement. 

 

I think it's completely cracked and shows how full of shit the High Sparrow is when he's going around talking about equality and how everybody is going to be treated the same way meanwhile Lancel can go around confessing to muder, regicide, fornication, and treason and he gets a slap on the wrist. It's total bullshit IMO. 

[DigitalCount]

But he admitted it freely and became a convert. Not just a normal one, but a head star carving one. I should think that's like work release, or something along those lines. Cersei needed it tortured out of her. I think that true penance is probably seen as accelerating the purification process. Yes, parading Cersei around naked is disgusting, but their situations were different. The High Septon 1.0 got paraded around in much the same manner, getting whipped when he tried to cover himself. He was also unrepentant.

[proserpina65]

If Lancel was punished then we should have seen the punishment because from my perspective it seems like he confessed and then was petted and taken in and encouraged to harass anyone who isn't apart of this new movement.

 

I didn't say he'd been punished. I said it was likely he'd confessed his sins and done penance - not the same thing as punishment.  And if his confession was freely given, it would not, in all likelihood, have received anywhere near the same kind of treatment as a confession which had to be tortured out of someone.  We're talking about two different situations.

If Lancel was punished then we should have seen the punishment because from my perspective it seems like he confessed and then was petted and taken in and encouraged to harass anyone who isn't apart of this new movement. 

 

I think it's completely cracked and shows how full of shit the High Sparrow is when he's going around talking about equality and how everybody is going to be treated the same way meanwhile Lancel can go around confessing to muder, regicide, fornication, and treason and he gets a slap on the wrist. It's total bullshit IMO. 

Religion tends to be full of all kinds of bullshit.

[WearyTraveler]

Timing and owning the message is everything.

 

I think the Lancel situation is the same as when a campaign manager for a politician running for office asks him/her if they have any skeletons in their closet and dependig on the situation the manager sometimes recommends that they own up to it before running so they can control the message.

[Constantinople]

Huh? He got a haircut back in January or so, which is possibly when that EW interview took place, it would have made news again if he'd really lost his Jon Snow locks.

 

For comparison, here's what he looked like when he first the role, before the show made him grow his hair out.

I'm glad they recast Bran.

The kid in the hat is too heavy and far too old to play him.

[CeeBeeGee]

She isn't the former queen. Her title hasn't been removed. At best she's former queen regent and even that isn't clear yet based on what we've seen on the show.

 

 A queen's title isn't removed because she's a widow or because she's done a walk of a shame.

 

She is the Dowager Queen (not *the* Queen)--Margaery is the Queen (i.e., Queen Consort). Of course neither of these would outrank a Queen Regnant but until Dany comes along, these are the two Queens.

[NoWillToResist]

And the people in the crowd were certainly misogynistic, with so many calling her all kinds of gendered slurs, the whore saying she'd only had half as many cocks as the queen (which I doubt, since Cersei's only had 3), the guy shouting about the royal tits, and the flasher telling her to suck him off, I don't remember any of that kind of sexualized vitriol happening with the High Septon. And there's just something generally ugly about trying to humble someone through sexual humiliation.

 

I can't and won't debate the last statement because I agree with it, but I thought the initial complaint was the nature of the punishment (naked walk through KL) doled out by the Sparrows, which was the same for the Septon and Cersei, to my recollection. How the CROWD reacts to the accused is on the crowd, not the Sparrows. Maybe no one really gave a shit about harassing the Septon because no one much cared about him or his crime. Cersei is a total cow to the people of KL; she clearly looks down her nose at them and doesn't give three fucks about a single one of them, so I put their vitriol down to her as a person, not a woman. But just have a look at the general public these days: the higher someone is, the happier many are when they fall. I think the crowd was ugly because it was CERSEI, not because the accused was a woman because, truthfully, if Marg were shuttled through the streets, I don't think the people of KL would react the same, even though she's a woman.

 

If Lancel was punished then we should have seen the punishment

 

But then the audience would have known that the High Sparrow had all this dirt on Cersei and we'd have been waiting for him to take her down...

[Avaleigh]

I can't and won't debate the last statement because I agree with it, but I thought the initial complaint was the nature of the punishment (naked walk through KL) doled out by the Sparrows, which was the same for the Septon and Cersei, to my recollection. How the CROWD reacts to the accused is on the crowd, not the Sparrows. Maybe no one really gave a shit about harassing the Septon because no one much cared about him or his crime. Cersei is a total cow to the people of KL; she clearly looks down her nose at them and doesn't give three fucks about a single one of them, so I put their vitriol down to her as a person, not a woman. But just have a look at the general public these days: the higher someone is, the happier many are when they fall. I think the crowd was ugly because it was CERSEI, not because the accused was a woman because, truthfully, if Marg were shuttled through the streets, I don't think the people of KL would react the same, even though she's a woman.

 

 

But then the audience would have known that the High Sparrow had all this dirt on Cersei and we'd have been waiting for him to take her down...

I'd have settled for a reference to the punishment. At no point does the High Sparrow make it sound as though Lancel had to go through an ordeal the way that Cersei did or even what the previous High Septon went through.

 

To me it was obvious that the other shoe was going to drop with Lancel and the HS taking Cersei down. They set it up early in the season when Cersei and Lancel have their scene together and we see that while she doesn't seem to care that much about their past affair she is concerned enough about the matter with Robert to act like she has no idea what Lancel is talking about and to me the indication was that this shit would end up coming up later to bite her in the ass. 

 

 

Timing and owning the message is everything.

 

I think the Lancel situation is the same as when a campaign manager for a politician running for office asks him/her if they have any skeletons in their closet and dependig on the situation the manager sometimes recommends that they own up to it before running so they can control the message.

I get this to a point but how can the High Sparrow say that he's all about "equality" (he's the one who keeps bringing up how people are treated equally when they're judged by the gods) so Lancel gets rewarded with a high position in their organization simply because he confessed to participating in lying, murder, treason, and everything else? What's worse is the way that Lancel gets to go around acting as if he's all morally superior because the High Sparrow has given him a clean slate so that he can feel all pious and moral and everything. I honestly find it sickening. There are few things in this world that make me twitch more than religious hypocrisy. 

 

If a campaign manager hears about his politician's past murder of another politician there's no way that any self respecting campaign manager is going to want to work with this person. Lancel comes across as the High Sparrow's right hand man and that seems totally wrong to me if the HS is supposed to be ushering in this new moral era. 

Edited June 26, 2015 by Avaleigh

[annsterg]

Mysogeny aside, I kinda felt a tiny bit MORE sympathy for the High Septon in his own walk of shame, because he IS a man...with external genitalia that could be damaged/caused extreme pain if someone in the crowd had good aim with a rock or something harder/sharper than a lump of manure. And he was not allowed to protect his junk because...shame.

 

While Cersei was bleeding from some of the missiles that landed and her feet were also bloody, and she was obviously exposed and humiliated, she wasn't quite as vulnerable to serious pain and injury as the High Septon was.

 

Yeah, only a TINY bit more sympathy but ...more.

 

Edited June 26, 2015 by annsterg

[proserpina65]

At no point does the High Sparrow make it sound as though Lancel had to go through an ordeal the way that Cersei did or even what the previous High Septon went through.

 

In all likelihood Lancel freely confessed to his sins and therefore WASN'T given punishment like this, just penance, which would've taken a different form for someone who wasn't forced (through torture or coercion) to admit them.  Most religions treat those who come willingly to confess their sins very differently; it's part and parcel of the forgiveness that many religions preach.  Hypocritcal?  Maybe, but religions are full of hypocrisy.

What's worse is the way that Lancel gets to go around acting as if he's all morally superior because the High Sparrow has given him a clean slate so that he can feel all pious and moral and everything.

 

That's how confession and forgiveness generally work.  Although the acting as if morally superior is specific to individuals.

Edited June 26, 2015 by proserpina65

[Avaleigh]

The point to me is that the High Septon made a big deal about how the public should know about Cersei's sins but the public doesn't apparently have the right to know that Lancel is a reformed murderer among other things. It'scrazy to me that a ssupposedly fair and just person would reward a man for confessing to the murder of the king.

[SeanC]

In all likelihood Lancel freely confessed to his sins and therefore WASN'T given punishment like this, just penance, which would've taken a different form for someone who wasn't forced (through torture or coercion) to admit them.  Most religions treat those who come willingly to confess their sins very differently; it's part and parcel of the forgiveness that many religions preach.  Hypocritcal?  Maybe, but religions are full of hypocrisy.

I don't think it's hypocritical to treat people who freely confess and seek redemption as different from people who are arrested and basically compelled the confess (and are quite blatantly not sincere).

[annsterg]

The High Sparrow is NOT the High Septon now, right? The High Septon is still in whatever cell Cersei put him in...unless the High Sparrow was named High Septon after that?

[NoWillToResist]

I'd have settled for a reference to the punishment. At no point does the High Sparrow make it sound as though Lancel had to go through an ordeal the way that Cersei did or even what the previous High Septon went through.

 

I doubt Lancel received punishment since he voluntarily confessed all and repented; in many religions that's enough to grant forgiveness without humiliating punishment. I think the previous High Septon was caught 'red-handed' so to speak, so perhaps they skipped the whole "jail/discomfort/starvation" process since a confession wasn't really necessary in his case? Just straight to the walk of shame for him!  ;)  Compare those two cases with Cersei's alleged crimes, her behaviour when accused and while jailed and it's night and day. Of the three, she was the least contrite or interested in repenting for her 'sins'. Hell, she threatened to murder her jailer!

 

And while Lancel confessed all to the High Sparrow, Cersei has only admitted to sex with Lancel; nothing else (not conspiracy to murder the king, incest with her twin resulting in illegitimate offspring assuming the crown [twice!] etc.). I think it's pretty much a lock that the High Sparrow believes Lancel's confession and yet, under oath, Cersei swore that only the incest with Lancel was true. I presume the HS was sing-songing "LIAR!" in his head during her confession. :D

Edited June 27, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Avaleigh]

I doubt Lancel received punishment since he voluntarily confessed all and repented; in many religions that's enough to grant forgiveness without humiliating punishment. I think the previous High Septon was caught 'red-handed' so to speak, so perhaps they skipped the whole "jail/discomfort/starvation" process since a confession wasn't really necessary in his case? Just straight to the walk of shame for him!  ;)  Compare those two cases with Cersei's alleged crimes, her behaviour when accused and while jailed and it's night and day. Of the three, she was the least contrite or interested in repenting for her 'sins'. Hell, she threatened to murder her jailer!

 

And while Lancel confessed all to the High Sparrow, Cersei has only admitted to sex with Lancel; nothing else (not conspiracy to murder the king, incest with her twin resulting in illegitimate offspring assuming the crown [twice!] etc.). I think it's pretty much a lock that the High Sparrow believes Lancel's confession and yet, under oath, Cersei swore that only the incest with Lancel was true. I presume the HS was sing-songing "LIAR!" in his head during her confession. :D

This what is totally nuts to me. I agree with you, I doubt he received punishment. This guy has a laundry list of sins that offend the Faith and he doesn't have to suffer any consequences because he freaking confessed. What's wrong with somebody murdering Tommen and then telling the truth about it? Do they get to have a new job with the sparrows? What sort of precedent does this set? A person participates in horrible crimes and get rewarded for confessing to them.

 

Margaery's crimes vs. Lancel's crimes are like night in day in terms of who's worse but Margaery is getting treated worse than Lancel did simply because Lancel confessed. It's totally screwed up and wrong in my opinion. Loras too--I don't see any righteous justice in Loras being condemned for his sex life meanwhile Lancel can confess to bedding the Queen and is then allowed to go around harassing people, assaulting them, destroying other people's merchandise, etc.

 

I can understand how Lancel's confession can earn him a break. His life can be spared and maybe after some prison time he can be assigned to working in some sept. But to immediately take him into the fold and make him an important member in this new movement seems wrong, hypocritical, and counter productive to the aims they claim to have.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Avaleigh

[WearyTraveler]

Well, I don't think it was immediate.  We haven't seen Lancel for a few seasons (didn't he leave KL after The Blackwater?), since season 2, I think.  It's been a while.  For all we know he could have been doing some penance for his sins all this time and just now earned the right to be one of the enforcers of the High Sparrow.

[DigitalCount]

Also, he got a shape carved into his head. Let's not forget that. Not just, like, a triangle, but a seven-pointed star inscribed in a circle. There's a reason they put a length of leather in his mouth. Heck, maybe the starred guys are the ones who are the most devoted and most forgiven because they had the most to confess.

 

In addition to this, he's not setting a precedent, because the precedent has already been set with another group of bird-themed guys. (My buddy made a joke about this when we were looking over the season; he was like "so basically the theme is 'birds are bad'? Harpies, sparrows, crows, we should just roast them all?) If confession could have been enough to send Ned to the wall, it's not strange that confession could be enough never to get to wear shoes again and to have the worst tattoo ever in that world.

[Hecate7]

I don't think it's hypocritical to treat people who freely confess and seek redemption as different from people who are arrested and basically compelled the confess (and are quite blatantly not sincere).

 

1. Lancel confessed---the High Sparrow talks about it. He did so voluntarily and without coercion, and probably expected some sort of punishment. Most likely he did a private penance of fasting and flagellation or some other sort of self-imposed penance.

 

2. Lancel does not rule the kingdom. He is not actually in authority over anyone, and left behind all of his worldly goods and his birthright when he confessed, so he gets to keep his crimes between himself and his confessors. Besides, the Faith Militant hadn't been armed or empowered to imprison people at that time. Things were a great deal more informal then.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This guy has a laundry list of sins that offend the Faith and he doesn't have to suffer any consequences because he freaking confessed.

Ha, so he's Catholic? I kid (mostly). But I agree that (1) we don't know how/when/if Lancel was punished after he confessed but (2) his punishment was was likely less intense because he confessed voluntarily and sincerely, as opposed to Cersei sitting in jail for who knows how long before copping to a few things on the long list of charges leveled against her. She still has to go to trial though, correct? I will be interested to hear what her additional punishment will be if she is found guilty. I mean, what can they come up with that's more humiliating than walking through the city naked while peole insult you and throw shit at you?

[SeanC]

I will be interested to hear what her additional punishment will be if she is found guilty. I mean, what can they come up with that's more humiliating than walking through the city naked while peole insult you and throw shit at you?

The primary charges are treason and murder -- it's hard to imagine the punishment for that is anything other than death.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think it should be said that in a sense the Sparrows are just another House, albeit not related by blood. They are maneuvering for power and prestige like all the other players, albeit possibly with no designs on the Iron Throne itself. 

 

So when Lancel converts and confesses, does the High Sparrow send ravens all about informing the people about what Lancel claims to have done? Hold a trial against Lancel for murder and treason?

 

No. 

 

He saves that little nugget for when it might do him the most good.

 

I think  it's fairly clear he had Lancel's confession in his back pocket from before Cersei allowed the Faith Militant to arm themselves. Before storming Littlefinger's brothel. Etc. Etc.

 

I think with the benefit of hindsight, each of the major "gets" was targeted for a specific purpose. 

 

Getting the former High Septon allows the High Sparrow to rise to become the new High Septon. (Note: Littlefinger personally is not targeted, despite being a high-profile pimp and there being ample evidence against him. Only one or more of his establishments.).

 

Going after Loras sets up Marg. Going after Marg tests the waters for what Tommen may or may not be willing to do, and also sets a precedent for going after a Queen.

 

Going after Cersei potentially lays the groundwork to undermine the entire hierarchy of Kings Landing. If the Faith can prove that Cersei is guilty of incest, murder and treason, they prove Tommen has no claim to the throne and position themselves as strong potential kingmakers.

 

In this context, publicly humiliating Cersei is part of the High Sparrow's plan to mobilize the masses and to threaten the power structure.

 

I'd guess just about every House has sins that could lead to this sort of treatment. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[SeanC]

I think  it's fairly clear he had Lancel's confession in his back pocket from before Cersei allowed the Faith Militant to arm themselves. Before storming Littlefinger's brothel. Etc. Etc.

I actually think that's not the case, because at the moment it looks like Lancel was the "handsome young man" Littlefinger told Olenna about -- maybe next season we'll learn otherwise, but Littlefinger mentions it right before the scene where the High Sparrow arrests Cersei, and there's no further mention of it in the remaining three episodes.  Moreover, the High Sparrow never did anything to manipulate Cersei into giving him an army, etc.; that was all her idea.

 

The actual dialogue the High Sparrow has in the arrest scene does sound more like he knew before, but in the context of the whole plot I don't think that squares.

 

I don't think Olenna somehow talking Lancel into confessing offscreen makes all that much sense either, but that appears to be what they're suggesting.

[WearyTraveler]

I thought what they were suggesting was that LF gave Olenna the same thing he gave Cersei, a pretty talkative Olyvar.  Only this time he said (or would say) different things.

 

Lancel might have confessed he slept with Cersei and that he served the king poisoned wine at her request, but did he know about Jamie? It seems to me that the "boy" LF offered Olenna is someone other than Lancel, who seems to be as strong a zealot and believer as the High Sparrow himself (the boy branded himself on the forhead, FFS!).

 

I think Olyvar, at LF's request, either gave them Cersei and Jamie's incestuous affair, or recanted his testimony on the Tyrells by saying the Queen made him do it, or both.

[SeanC]

But there's been no indication that anything has changed concerning Margaery and Loras' statuses.

[WearyTraveler]

Just as there has been no indication that things remain the same.... ;-)

[Fretful]

Regarding Jaime and the ship, didn't Cersei ask Oberyn to give Mycella a ship as a gift?  I seem to remember him agreeing to it in season 4.

 

I also think (spitballing here) that Doran is in on the plot to kill the Lannisters.  How easy would it be to make them feel like Ellaria is a rogue agent, when actually that was the plan all along?

[SeanC]

I also think (spitballing here) that Doran is in on the plot to kill the Lannisters.  How easy would it be to make them feel like Ellaria is a rogue agent, when actually that was the plan all along?

Considering that Cersei is the one running King's Landing, as far as anybody in Dorne appears to know, I'd say not easy at all.

[bunnyblue]

Regarding Jaime and the ship, didn't Cersei ask Oberyn to give Mycella a ship as a gift?  I seem to remember him agreeing to it in season 4.

 

While that would be some nice continuity, I thought Oberyn was going to take the ship with him when he sailed back to Dorne. I don't think Ellaria felt like doing Cersei any favors after Oberyn's death, so I doubt the ship Jaime is on is the one that Cersei wanted to send Myrcella.

 

I've been re-watching S1 in a sad attempt to endure this awful hiatus. I noticed that First Builder Yarwyck of the NW witnessed Jon & Sam take their vows in front of the weirwood north of the Wall. He seemed to like Jon back then and treated him kindly. But in this episode he was one of the traitorous bastards who stabbed Jon. I think Yarwyck was the one who reluctantly sided with Thorne about not sealing the tunnel in S4. To think I liked him before! Hmph!! I hope Ghost rips out his throat next season, right after Olly and Thorne. 

 

Something else I was reminded of on my re-watch is just what an awful person Cersei is. She never showed remorse for her part in Bran's "fall". I loath that insufferable smug look she wore every time she taunted Ned; she knew he was right, but not once did she consider going into exile with her brats and her brother/lover and sparing the kingdom years of war. She loves the power her incestuous bastard spawn have given her. So, yeah, her crocodile tears this episode did not and will never illicit any sympathy from me. She cried for herself and only herself during her walk. I'm sure with FrankenMountain doing her dirty work next season, she will continue to be a sorry excuse for a human being. I do look forward to her finding out her precious daughter is dead and I can only hope she loses Tommen and Jaime too before the series ends. She deserves to live a long life utterly alone and shoveling shit down in Flea Bottom.

[Donny Ketchum]

The real question is: if Sansa were chained up in the brothel, and Arya had one chance to either save her sister or kill Trant, which would she do? I can quite easily see her saving Sansa. But being very pissed off about it.

Wait.  Have Sansa and Arya ever shared scenes this entire series?  Ever?

[Avaleigh]

Wait.  Have Sansa and Arya ever shared scenes this entire series?  Ever?

In the first season they share several scenes. One of the notable ones is when Ned has the lightbulb moment about the incest after Sansa saying that she wants to give Joffrey children with beautiful golden hair and Arya gets the seven hells line.

[Donny Ketchum]

In the first season they share several scenes. One of the notable ones is when Ned has the lightbulb moment about the incest after Sansa saying that she wants to give Joffrey children with beautiful golden hair and Arya gets the seven hells line.

Ooh.  Could I see or hear or read the exchange, please? :)

[Avaleigh]

This isn't the full scene but it gives you the gist. :)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekMAfTCnMtg

[Donny Ketchum]

This isn't the full scene but it gives you the gist. :)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekMAfTCnMtg

Wow.  Sansa was that blind to him?  What opened her eyes?  And I see that Arya hated him from the get-go.

[FemmyV]

Wow.  Sansa was that blind to him?  What opened her eyes?  And I see that Arya hated him from the get-go.

 

I think her eyes were opened that day at the Trident, but she chose to continue on the path that would make her Queen. Joffrey ordering Payne to cut Ned's head off was the point where Sansa was finally ready to stop kidding herself and consider that maybe someone "brave, gentle, and strong" might be better husband material, after all.

[Hecate7]

The real question is: if Sansa were chained up in the brothel, and Arya had one chance to either save her sister or kill Trant, which would she do? I can quite easily see her saving Sansa. But being very pissed off about it.

 

There is absolutely no contest. She'd kill Trant. She'd be unable not to. Sansa would just have to figure it out on her own--if she couldn't figure it out it's unlikely Arya would be able to help anyway.

[SeanC]

There is absolutely no contest. She'd kill Trant. She'd be unable not to. Sansa would just have to figure it out on her own--if she couldn't figure it out it's unlikely Arya would be able to help anyway.

You're right that there's no contest, but it would be because she would choose to save her sister.

There isn't a single example where Arya has prioritized revenge over helping people she cares about. With Trant she prioritized revenge over killing some random guy for reasons she had no emotional investment in at all.