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CuriousParker

S01.E13: Old Ego Is A Too Much Thing

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Emma returns to the family just as Mary goes into labor; Hodiak's deal for Walt goes south; the conclusion to Hodiak and Shafe's murder investigation has unforeseen consequences; Karn takes care of an old problem.

 

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Binge watched the whole season over the weekend -- and I thought it was pretty good overall.  And I'd like to see more.

 

I really enjoy having Duchovny back on TV as a cop -- Hodiak is an interesting character, and became even more interesting once he started drinking again.  It's funny to catch the occasional minor flash of Hank Moody or Fox Mulder pop up once in a while.  The good mix of case of the week with the over-arching Manson plot was decently done.

 

Watching Charlie continue to become even more crazed and unhinged towards the end of the first season knowing what he becomes in his downward spiral is interesting -- I'm curious to see how much more creative license they take in Season 2 with Manson's story.  The big reveal being that Charlie (when he was a pimp) was the 3rd person when Ken Kurn and his partner, Hal, tried to cover up that Hal killed one of Charlie's girls. And that's the leverage he's been holding over Ken and Hal all this time.  And the even bigger reveal that Hal never killed the prostitute, that she woke up as they were moving the body from the motel to the car trunk and that Ken beat her to death with a shovel and they all buried her under rocks covering a berm.  So when Hal calls up Ken and tells him "it happened again", you know what went down.

 

I hope they don't kill off Charmaine -- I've liked how her character has grown as she has tried to prove herself in the male-dominated police force, despite the treatment she has been getting.  And I like how Hodiak respects her and informally mentors her while everyone else in the dept. treats her like crap (Cutler being the worst offender of the bunch).

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I also completed watching the series this weekend.  I sort of like how the loose ends were left, but won't like them if we do not get another season.

 

The creepy guy who approached Charmaine seems to be in too many places.  He is Manson's buddy, then he got in with the burlesque club owner, and then with the higher level drug dealer.  

 

I generally have not been a Duchovny fan at all, but like him in this part.  So what did the alleged "witness" see and report to IA that would get them both in trouble?  I like the relationship between Hodiak and Shafe.

 

And who shot who between Ken and Hal?  

 

The whole baby stealing by Sadie was creepy.  I looked up Mary Brunner, who is real, and she did have Manson's child, so why take license and say that child died and Sadie had to steal a replacement?  I get that it was to get Sadie back in Manson's good graces, but according to what I read, the child did not die.

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I  binge watched this weekend and enjoyed it, although I have to say it led to some psychedelic dreams. Anyway, I like where it left things, and I'm all in for another season. I

 

'm hoping if Charmaine has been kidnapped by the cult she ends up a willing participant as an undercover agent. If she becomes seduced by Charlie, who gives her the attention and respect she can't get from the police  force, I'm going to hurl.

 

I'm hoping the self-righteous reporter gets his some day. Meanwhile, Hodiak's son has a serious martyr complex.

 

By my count, we're at 2 ex-Justified actors and counting. Is NBC having fun pairing this show starring Duchovny with Hannibal, starring Gillian Anderson?

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Count me in for the Binge party.  I really enjoyed the series and look forward to another season.

 

I've become a serious fan of the 12-13 episode seasons of new shows.  So much easier to keep track of people and stories with shorter runs. 

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The whole baby stealing by Sadie was creepy.  I looked up Mary Brunner, who is real, and she did have Manson's child, so why take license and say that child died and Sadie had to steal a replacement?  I get that it was to get Sadie back in Manson's good graces, but according to what I read, the child did not die.

 

With the baby wrapped in the hospital baby blanket, that was just creepy how they all just kind of went along with the stolen baby and didn't say anything.

 

I'm hoping the self-righteous reporter gets his some day.

 

Was it the cleaning woman that outed Joe Moran as Latino pretending to be Irish to the reporter ?  I'm still unclear why she did that, because he seemed to be the only person in the precinct that was nice to her.

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Binged the remaining episodes and I'm in for another 2-3 seasons to get the entire Manson drama and also see where Hodiak, Shafe, and Charmaine's stories go.

 

During the binge everytime DD did the "Previously on Aquarius' I was always expecting him to say 'Previously on Hodiak'. Don't know why. Maybe because it sounds cooler, LOL.

 

Wonder if we'll see someone at the precinct take on the missing baby case.

 

Cutler is an ass but he's an entertaining ass that has layers that are sometimes admirable (he does feel something for Opal; still has Hodiak's back; sometimes makes a very observant remark) and honestly, the man is ripped. Between him and Hodiak it's nice to see men of a certain age keeping in shape.

 

 

I generally have not been a Duchovny fan at all, but like him in this part.

 

I was all in on DD in The X-Files but I wasn't sure if I'd like him in this but I thought he was on fire. He's almost like a 60's era Raylan Givens even though he's considered 'The Man' but he does this lawman badass cop who plays by his own rules, beds (questionable) women on a regular basis, and is quick with the quips and one liners. Even Emma's mom is like a Winona in that he's hung up on her even as she's not quite right for him (IMO). I know it'll never happen but 60s era Gillian Anderson guesting on this to crackle with Hodiak would make my day.

 

You know who really was an unexpected and delightful scene stealer? Shafe's druggie snitch. Love him.

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The whole baby stealing by Sadie was creepy.  I looked up Mary Brunner, who is real, and she did have Manson's child, so why take license and say that child died and Sadie had to steal a replacement?  I get that it was to get Sadie back in Manson's good graces, but according to what I read, the child did not die.

 

That threw me off big time, and out of all the liberties taken with the story, I admit I absolutely hated this one. Valentine Michael (aka Pooh Bear), the son born to Mary Brunner and Charles Manson, was not stillborn. Mary did deliver the baby with the family, and while I don't know offhand if there were problems with the delivery (Manson performing an emergency C-section was rather frightening, and I hope it wasn't true), he was born a healthy baby.

 

Having him die was bad enough, but then having Susan Atkins steal a baby too take his place was just not right. I certainly don't mean to defend any members of the Manson family, let alone that murderous bitch Susan Atkins, but there are plenty of fucked up things the Family did, they don't have to invent new ones. Especially ones as frightening and depressing as snatching a baby.

 

I know that sounds weird, especially since Atkins personally murdered a very pregnant Sharon Tate, but I can't shake the dirty feeling that came over me from watching that.

 

Maybe it is because the real Valentine Manson (now 47, and living under a different name) is out there, and I can only imagine what he would think of that plot development. Though I imagine he isn't watching. Still, what would he make of the fact that they pretty much shit all over his life story, all to further some lame plotline about Sadie being jealous of special (and fictional) snowflake Emma?

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Having him die was bad enough, but then having Susan Atkins steal a baby too take his place was just not right. I certainly don't mean to defend any members of the Manson family, let alone that murderous bitch Susan Atkins, but there are plenty of fucked up things the Family did, they don't have to invent new ones. Especially ones as frightening and depressing as snatching a baby.

 

I know that sounds weird, especially since Atkins personally murdered a very pregnant Sharon Tate, but I can't shake the dirty feeling that came over me from watching that.

 

Maybe it is because the real Valentine Manson (now 47, and living under a different name) is out there, and I can only imagine what he would think of that plot development. Though I imagine he isn't watching. Still, what would he make of the fact that they pretty much shit all over his life story, all to further some lame plotline about Sadie being jealous of special (and fictional) snowflake Emma?

 

So, the Sadie character it supposed to be Susan Atkins?  Is the Cherry character based on a real life person? 

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So, the Sadie character it supposed to be Susan Atkins?  Is the Cherry character based on a real life person?

 

 

I don't know why the show is being coy about it. Perhaps they think it is something that doesn't need explanation, which is true for a lot of viewers. But for those who are not as versed, Susan Atkins went by the name Sadie. Sadie Mae Glutz to be exact.

 

Cherry is fictional, and not based wholly on any one Manson woman. If she has a real life counterpart, it would most likely be Ruth Ann Moorhouse.

 

Like Cherry, Ruth Ann was one of the younger Manson women, who was recruited in 1967 at age 16 (or 14, depending on what her date of birth actually is). She too was one of Manson's favorites, mainly because she was probably the best looking of the bunch, which made her a favorite of friends of the Family: bikers, hippies, drug dealers and other hangers-on. Most importantly she would become a favorite of Dennis Wilson, and his friends Gregg Jakobson and Terry Melcher.

 

Like Cherry, Ruth Ann also had a father who confronted Manson about his daughter. Her father even accosted Manson with a gun, and threatened to kill him. And much like what was shown on an earlier episode, Charlie defused the situation by remaining calm and even telling the father to shoot him if that is what he really wanted to do.

 

And like on the show, the father would also fall under Charlie's influence, hanging around if not becoming a full fledged member of the Family.

 

But that is where the similarities end. Ruth Ann's father was not a powerful lawyer, but rather a minister. One of no consequence, but one who certainly had strayed from the flock. And the Reverend Dean Moorehouse was not a closeted homosexual in love with Charlie, but rather a run of the mill creep who favored young girls his daughter's age.

Edited by reggiejax

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Always down for a Xander Berkley appearance!  I loved how they did the dramatic reveal with not actually seeing the Commissioner's face at first.  Reveal in the Xander Berkley!  Also liked seeing Tim Griffin show up briefly at the end as the IA guy.

 

Ouch, in the end, Hodiak covered up Ken's crimes for nothing.  Walt ends up turning himself in, as expected.  That was probably just one of the many reasons Hodiak was messing around against the killers, and was willing to allow them to die.  But who is this "witness", the IA guy claims they had?  Was someone else in the house?  Where they watching through the window?  Either way, I doubt they are sending Hodiak to prison anytime soon, but I'm guessing this will be part of a season two, assuming the show gets one.

 

So, the big cover-up was that Hal likes to get rough with women, and they thought he killed her.  But, when moving the body, she ended up being still alive.  But in order to not be exposed, Ken gave her the killing blow (or blows, really?  How many times did he hit her with the shovel?  Either he sucks at it, or he has some violent issues.)  This time though, Charles takes the body before they can hide it, so now Ken is going to set-up to Hal, to make it look like he killed himself.  Only heard a gunshot during the struggle, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet on the guy whose not just a regular, but has the special "and" billing status, over the one in the guest cast.

 

Molly gives birth, only for the baby to be stillborn.  So, Sadie just simply steals a baby from a hospital, and that gets Charles back into her good graces.  Even Molly seems to be warming up to him.  Only Emma looks concerned, but part of that could be because she's feeling the heat now.  Might not be Charles' favorite now!

 

Not a fan of Charmain potentially getting captured.  Really hope they aren't going down a typical "damsel" route, and having to have Shafe save her.  Hopefully, she's just going back undercover, which will be cool as long as she doesn't end up becoming an actual Manson fangirl.  But I'm personally rooting for her to at least stab Roy in the junk.

 

Interesting idea for NBC to have this available for binging.  I wonder how the numbers are and if the can tell if this was a success or not.  But I wouldn't be against networks doing this more with certain shows.

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Boy, that was a hard slog.   What a long, drawn-out mess.   Too many storylines involving too many period taboos.   I'm most grateful this was the last episode because I can't stomach even another 5 minutes of Renly Baratheon's smarmy Charles Manson parody. 

 

Duchovny started out strong, then his portrayal seemed to drift as much as my attention.   I didn't get Michaela McManus's character at all.   She seemed schizophrenic or perhaps bipolar, one minute on Hodiak's team, the next on Ken's, one day willing to die for Emma, the next indifferent or, at best, not in too much of a rush to save her.

 

Won't be bingeing the second season of Aquarius, if there is one. 

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I'm done, and I really liked it. I'm in for season 2.

 

Good finale, but agree the IA investigation is puzzling. I assume the witness to Hodiak's act will be muzzled after some angst.

 

Walt is dumb. He could have taken his dishonorable discharge and become a leader of the anti-war movement. I can't figure a way he's not headed for the brig.

 

Charmaine in the hands of Sleazy Rider and Charlie scares me. We've seen what they do to woman they get angry with -- as in Charlie's Mother. Hopefully she shot Sleazy in the balls and got away.

 

Some people bring an apple to the teacher to gain favor, Sadie brings a stolen child. Same thing, only 50 million times creepier.

 

There were two shots, so hopefully both Hall and Ken are dead. That is all.

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Charmaine better be OK, she was my favorite character at the end. The girl wants to be a detective, give her the gold shield already.

I'm sorry, but when Kenny and Hal were in the car fighting over the gun and it went off.... I yelled "OMG, they've killed Kenny! You bastard!" :) I think Kenny will survive, as he has unfinished business with Charlie.

When Charlie held the baby up and said "This is the age....." I was waiting for the 5th Dimension to break out into song.

I'm waiting for Patricia Krenwinkel to be noted, since Sadie and Katie have been mentioned. Where the hell is Tex Watson? Next season?

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Tex doesn't show up in the Manson orbit until later, he meets him through Beach Boy Dennis Wilson. 

 

They could easily get 2-3 seasons out of this. There's a lot of fascinating (and creep) stuff.

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I also have been wondering when the show would make note that Patricia Krenwinkel is Katie. That is how she was known to the Family. She met Manson in 1967 but the show has only really had Sadie talk about her past. I guess next season if the show makes it.

Edited by ShadowHunter

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So was the wife of the drug dealer the actual catalyst to his death?  I don't understand why the delivery guy would take a fall instead of ratting her out too. 

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That threw me off big time, and out of all the liberties taken with the story.... Valentine Michael (aka Pooh Bear), the son born to Mary Brunner and Charles Manson, was not stillborn. Mary did deliver the baby with the family, and while I don't know offhand if there were problems with the delivery (Manson performing an emergency C-section was rather frightening, and I hope it wasn't true), he was born a healthy baby....

Maybe it is because the real Valentine Manson (now 47, and living under a different name)...

I am guessing there are legal reasons to tweek the story since the real son is still living--because if it was out of respect or even consideration for him, they wouldn't have included his birth at all, IMO.

The worse part for me was that Mary would have died of sepsis having been cut open with a dirty pen knife, and yet she lives to see another season.

So Ken is just as brutal of a killer as any of the Manson Family. Good point to make--that not all depraved murderers are famous.

And then if killing is a long continuum, where on it is Hodiak's breaking the neck of the young man in the house?

You know who really was an unexpected and delightful scene stealer? Shafe's druggie snitch. Love him.

Yes. Where did we last see him? Edited by shapeshifter

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Nonononono! Where is Charmain? Every female character on television I've ever taken into my heart either ends up raped, dead, or both. For awhile I thought I just had unfortunate taste, but it's happened so goddamn often by this point that I'm putting the blame fully on Hollywood.

 

Yeah, definitely didn't see Sadie stealing the baby coming (mostly because nothing I've read has indicated that was even remotely the case) but I guess that was one way to get her back into Manson's good graces. The fact that Mary survived that birth is astounding.

 

So who died, Ken or Hal? Dun dun dun.

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I just finished the series under the wire for the on-demand availability. Not exactly a binge, but I'm glad I don't have to wait another 8 weeks to find out how it ends. To be honest, I'm kinda sad it didn't really end. Thought it was gonna be a self-contained 13-episode miniseries, but the cliffhangers threw me off. That they farted around so long getting this on the air makes me think TPTB at the network weren't too fond of it. My crystal ball says the chances of this getting picked up for a second season are low.

 

Having him die was bad enough, but then having Susan Atkins steal a baby too take his place was just not right. I certainly don't mean to defend any members of the Manson family, let alone that murderous bitch Susan Atkins, but there are plenty of fucked up things the Family did, they don't have to invent new ones. Especially ones as frightening and depressing as snatching a baby.

 

I completely agree with that. I had the same feeling when they had him shoving LSD down his mother's throat after giving her a beating and then turning a bunch of bikers loose on her for a gang rape. That made me shudder. It probably was not out of character for what he was capable of.... but he never did that and it just doesn't seem right to show that he did.

 

I wasn't happy that Hodiak was willing, towards the end, to sell his soul to the devil in order to buy a get-out-of-jail-free card for his son. Not that a lot of people wouldn't have done the same thing, but it just seemed out of character for Hodiak.

 

So Hal appears at Kenny Ken's door covered in blood and says, "it happened again". But when we see the flashbacks that fill in that whole 1959 backstory, the hooker wrapped in plastic isn't even dead. Ken finishes her off with the shovel, but before that she doesn't seem to be covered in blood and none of the 3 perpetrators have even a hint of blood on their suits (Manson wearing a tie LOL). So, Hal, WHAT happened again, exactly? He tells Ken, "I must've hit an artery or something". OK then. Except the 1st girl in 1959 didn't seem to be suffering from any blood loss whatsoever. Minor plot hole, maybe. Hal is a scumbag just like Ken and Manson. We get it.

 

And finally, Charmain. I don't get the love-fest for this character. Plucky young woman trying to make it in a hard-nosed man's world, aka the 1967 LAPD. Fine, I get that. The character has struck me all season as very one dimensional. She went through some traumatic events this season, true enough, but at the end I couldn't care less about her.

 

It was a decent season. I'd love to see DD reprising this role - albeit as a somewhat modernized version - in something like Law & Order: Maybe a throwback Law & Order: LAPD '68. Never been a big DD fan but he was outstanding in Aquarius.

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Where is Charmain?

Who was the witness?

Who was shot in the car?

ARRRGGGGGGG

So say we all. Heh.

I'm guessing the three cliff hangers leave room for 1) Charmain to be killed off--possibly because Claire Holt is too busy with The Originals etc., and 2) the addition of another character in the form of someone who saw Hodiak break the neck of the brother of the serial killer, and 3) possibly to kill off Ken/Brian F. O'Byrne if he's too busy--although I don't see how he could be physically overpowered and shot by a drugged Hal, and, anyway, Spencer Garrett, who plays Hal, is even busier according to IMDb than Brian O'Byrne.

Assuming O'Byrne does return as Ken, I would expect Hodiak to be beside himself with rage and/or frustration at the idea of not pursuing the cold case of the dead hooker now that his son is in jail anyway.

If Charmain does survive, I expect her to be at least stabbed because of Shafe's Chekhovian warning about not being such a hot dog will prevent getting stabbed like he did.

One more thing: When Charlie made love to Sadie because Sadie had brought a stolen baby to the "family," the look on Emma's face seemed to convey more doubts about Charlie's infallibility and moral judgement. I wonder if it will be enough for her to leave the Manson Family.

Editing to add: Or, maybe Emma's obession with Charlie and her competition with Sadie will be what drives her to participate in the Tate murders.

Edited by shapeshifter
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I am guessing there are legal reasons to tweek the story since the real son is still living--because if it was out of respect or even consideration for him, they wouldn't have included his birth at all, IMO.

 

I can't imagine what legal reason would lead them to suggest that a real person actually died at birth and was replaced with a stolen baby from the hospital. That just seems like it was done purely for dramatic purposes to show us, yet again, how messed up these people really are.  And yeah, Emma, it's good you turned your back on your family for these people.  I mean, your dad is obviously seriously messed up, but your mom seems to care about you.  That's something.     

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  And yeah, Emma, it's good you turned your back on your family for these people.  I mean, your dad is obviously seriously messed up, but your mom seems to care about you.  That's something.

It is not unusual for teens to blame a cheating parent for the other parent's behavior, and, although I don't expect Emma will attribute her father's going to Manson for "comfort" to her mother's infidelity with Hodiak, Emma might blame her mother for her own perceived flaws of character (e.g., materialism), especially with Charlie goading her on to cut ties with her mother to prove her loyalty to "the family." They haven't made it clear yet what Emma thinks of her father's relationship with Manson, which actually rings true for that time period when homosexuality wouldn't have likely been a topic of conversation in Emma's sphere, but I would guess she figures Charlie is irresistible to everyone, including her father.

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