Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[thefog]

James has no reason to trust her, so I think it would be highly amusing if he found out just how untrustworthy she's been and blindsides her.  Or blindsides her this week and votes to keep Vanessa.

Other than Becky didn't put James on the block.  Many thought he was a gonner after taking out Clay. And her taking out another SS player, will help him at this point, not hurt him.

Edited August 9, 2015 by escape

[Skycatcher]

 

Peach ........... with the train thing, that's still pretty tasteless.

LOL  So when has BB ever been tasteful????  The show is like slop for TV, and "taste" hasn't ever been an issue.

 

Liz has to keep in mind that a dumped "bunny boiling" Austin in the jury house would not be a good thing for her game.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Skycatcher

[Wings]

Becky told the story, of getting hit by a train, with lightness and sees the humor in how it happened.  I think the train on the comic book is funny and I am sure she did, too.  

[Stinamaia]

"Vanessa is like the little boy who cried sheep."

-- Becky

Reading last night's feeds is hilarious.

First, I love "Stick to the plan" because it is such a reference to Survivor Keith who blew up the game with that phrase.

Second, Vanessa's pitch that she saved Becky when she was up on the block was great. I didn't see that one coming.

Becky being a stone cold liar? Didn't expect it.

There's a long way to go, and I'm still waiting for the pitch to Steve to not use the veto.

ETA: Is there a chance Vanessa threw the veto comp because she didn't want to be put in the position of choosing between Shellie and Steve, and is blaming it on med withdrawal to cover it up?

[ByaNose]

Vanessa was taking a big risk if she was throwing the comp. Two of her allies are up on the block but she really needs only one of them. I think deep down inside she doesn't think anyone (Becky) would put her up on the block. She knows she's a good player but I also think she believes is like Derrick and never will (would) get nominated.

Edited August 9, 2015 by ByaNose

[Stinamaia]

Vanessa was taking a big risk if she was throwing the comp. Two of her allies are up on the block but she really needs only one of them. I think deep down in side she doesn't think anyone (Becky) would,put her up on the block. She knows she's a good player but I also think she is like Derrick and never will (would) get nominated.

I dunno. It's hard for me to get inside Vanessa's brain at times. I know she is touted as a rational, logical player, but sometimes it seems to me more rationale instead of rational. I can see her logic, but I think she sometimes doesn't tally up the risk logically. Was her decision. To save Shellie more emotional than logical? Was it better to just build trust with both Clay and Shellie, and tell the HOH that she was leaving the decision up to Clay and Shellie? Was it logical to blindside Jason and erode trust, or was it better to let people know what she was doing and try to build consensus?

[Kris117]

HAHA, apparently Austin said he's going to "end it" with Liz unless he gets more of a commitment.  WHAT??  Did this actually happen?

While I do not know what would qualify as "commitment" on Liz's part for Austin, I'm quite sure I don't want to see it, whatever it is. If by "ending it" he means backing away from the romance, I'm all for that. If he means severing all alliance ties with Liz, that would be dumb game play on his part, so of course I want to see that.

[yankee1151]

Other than Becky didn't put James on the block.  Many thought he was a gonner after taking out Clay. And her taking out another SS player, will help him at this point, not hurt him.

He still might well be a goner when his side doesn't win HOH, but I think Becky will be a higher priority for now (which she did to herself).  But if Becky wins veto, he or Jackie is gone.  I wasn't implying that what Becky is doing this week isn't helping James' side, of course it is, which is why they're all up there like they're her new BFFs.  That's smart gameplay for them, but doesn't mean they plan to work with her long term.  James, in particular probably won't be pleased to know that while he was HOH and Becky was all of a sudden his newest alliance member,  she was playing double agent with the doomed couple.  J/J/M have no reason to trust Becky long term, that's all.  And they will protect each other over her.  But again, I was only saying I'd find it funny if he gets HOH and decides she's more of a threat than the Austwins or Steve and boots her for.  Not saying it's a likely possibility (for James), just that her rat ways, along with being a comp beast and the way she is handling this HOH could be motivation for anyone not named John to want her gone sooner than later.  I'm done with the dead horse but I was just pointing out that she went from "Becky WHO?" to flip flopping rat (for no reason, giving info to the people on the block) to power hungry HOH talking shit like it's her job all because people SHE WAS NEVER ALIGNED WITH went back on a fake 8 person deal (which still ultimately kept her safe).  Wallpaper to rat to unnecessary bluster to target.  Bad play, just like 6S going back on the Austin deal.  

 

Vanessa, Shelli, and Clay really fucked up by not booting Austin.  Steve would probably be going to jury this week if they had.  Or Liz.  I predict right now that Julia makes F3, and has a very good chance of winning this.  Not a bad scenario, actually.  I'd hate to see Meg and JMac sitting there just because others are of the mind that they can get rid of them later.  There is more than one Victoria in the house this season.  

 

As for Liz - I agree with those who have said she's in a really bad spot with Austin.  What choice does she have but to continue to lead him on when the alternative seems to be throwing her game in the shitter?  I still think Austin is worse than Caleb.  I don't recall Caleb lying on top of Amber and rubbing her all day long.  Austin was doing this far before Liz gave in and (minimally) reciprocated.  And I think Liz was "negotiating" about his beard so at least she won't have to smell it anymore.  I honestly don't know wtf I would do in her position, but the whole thing really grosses me out.  Austin needs to go.  

[Stinamaia]

One of the reasons Caleb didn't paw Amber was that Amber was not at all receptive to being pawed.

I'm not upset that Liz is using Austin. In some sort of warped way, I'm fascinated that she can allow him access to her body when she says that she is not at all attracted to him.

I'm laughing at the idea of Austin sacrificing his beard length for Liz and then finding out that she has no interest in him. I hope she lives far away. And does Austin have some weird bun thing with his beard? I try not to look at him.

[yankee1151]

One of the reasons Caleb didn't paw Amber was that Amber was not at all receptive to being pawed.

I'm not upset that Liz is using Austin. In some sort of warped way, I'm fascinated that she can allow him access to her body when she says that she is not at all attracted to him.

I'm laughing at the idea of Austin sacrificing his beard length for Liz and then finding out that she has no interest in him. I hope she lives far away. And does Austin have some weird bun thing with his beard? I try not to look at him.

I don't think Austin washes his hair or beard at all (I'm dry heaving right now thinking about it).  I've seen many references to him not washing his hair or face while showering.  Also not washing his hands after using the bathroom.  I think Liz deserves to win this whole thing just for taking the bullet and allowing him to follow her around and touch her ALL.THE.TIME.  I'm sure it's not a strategy she thought she'd be faced with going into the house.  It's cringe inducing but girl is playing to win.  

[thefog]

But I don't want Vanessa on the block

 

On the plus side I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Vanessa is leaving.

 

Austin needs to go.  

Vanessa will be a goner Thurs.  Becky is not going to change her game plan and alienate the house - the way Vanessa screwed-up with Jason.   SS will be then down to 4 and will no longer have the power.  Trust me, so-called promises and allegiances will scramble and shift.

Edited August 9, 2015 by escape

[peachmangosteen]

My point about V and S making alliances when in power is that Becky didn't bother to do ANYTHING the first few weeks.  Like, at ALL.

 

I just feel like this is categorically untrue though. In the first few weeks, Becky built relationships with Jackie, John, Shelli, and Clay. She won an HOH. She played rat for Shelli/Clay, which was enough to keep her safe while Sixth Sense ran the first part of the game. And she actually had the dynamics pretty solidly read early on. She was the only one who figured out that Steve and Liz were the hinky votes during Jeff's eviction. Becky was playing a pretty good UTR/rat game. And once she realized that wasn't gonna work anymore, she was able to change it up very quickly and win a very crucial HOH.

 

There is more than one Victoria in the house this season.

The way I see it there are no Victorias. And no Codys, for that matter. Were James, Meg, and Jackie playing very low-key (or maybe in the case of Meg, no-key lol) games at first? Sure. Did they realize that wasn't gonna work anymore and step it up at the first overt sign that they were fucked? They sure did. Same with John. Ditto Becky. Although, Steve, yea, he might be a bit Victoria/Cody like.

Edited August 9, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Stinamaia]

I don't think Steve is like Victoria. Sure, Vanessa planned on using him as a goat (as well as Austin) but Steve was aware of how he was being used and aware of what was going on in the game and even influencing parts of it. Victoria had zero awareness, IMO.

[Vicky]

I'm feeling terrible for Vanessa today. It's sad to see the whole house turning against her - some more vociferously than others - and her "friends" aren't giving her any hint or heads up that she needs to be concerned. I know in this context it's different than real life, so I shouldn't expect they would. It's just difficult to watch.

I wish she would have relaxed a bit more so she could have some true connections with the other Houseguests. Most of her interactions have been retelling of comps or game strategy. I wonder if hiding this big secret about her real life is keeping her from being more real, which comes through and people can sense it which makes them more inclined to distrust her. Even when she was leading the house they didn't trust her...she just had power so they went along with it. She and Jackie could have bonded during their 24 hours together, but that never happened. Missed opportunity.

I still think she was misunderstood for the most part - her intentions got lost in all the plans and the drama. I don't remember how she got in so thick and heavy with Shelli and Clay. I wonder if that was her big mistake...they don't seem like people who think like her. And definitely it was their influence which caused her to switch from Austin. She put her loyalty to Shelli and Clay above everything, to her own detriment. She should have stuck with her gut when she saw Austin had voted the wrong way without mentioning it to his alliance. It occurs to me, she's mentioned that she's been cheated on three times in relationships and it really wrecked her. That probably explains her excessive questioning and checking in, and it also makes me feel even worse for her when she finds out she' s been 'cheated on' in this game as well.

Oh man - let's hope she doesn't take this game as seriously as I do!!!!! :)

it's definitely a game and she's more used to high pressure competitions than I am, so I'm sure she'll get out of the house, see her mistakes and move on to a happy and healthy life!!!!

I, on the other hand, will never apply to be on Big Brother. :)

Kudos to Steve for having had the courage to see this through even though he was uncomfortable. And smart of him to recognize it's not for him.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest!

By the way - I love all the analysis 'y'all' have been writing...pretty spot on I'd say. I've gotten too caught up in how everyone FEELS. Crazy.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Vicky

[Slider]

 

It seems like Vanessa's pitch this week is "stick to the plan"

 

Which is the absolute worst thing for her to say since she didn't stick to the plan on nominating Austin.  She needs some self awareness right now.

[peachmangosteen]

I don't think Steve is like Victoria. Sure, Vanessa planned on using him as a goat (as well as Austin) but Steve was aware of how he was being used and aware of what was going on in the game and even influencing parts of it.

 

I remain very unconvinced. I certainly don't think Steve is influencing anything. But Steve is really more of a Cody because he can win comps and because he's so enamored with Vanessa.

 

Speaking of, I kinda hate Steve and I'm worried he's gonna get super deep in the game. At this point it's clear he's throwing every HOH and that he's probably gonna be able to beast through a lot of them when he actually decides to try. I can't take him winning, but someone I hate pretty much always wins, so I should be used to it by now!

[njbarmaid]

I don't know if I can watch the feeds this week. I can see a Lord of the Flies mentality building along with the inevitable HOHitis Becky is getting.

wish we could ff to thurs and the second eviction where someone in ss wins so the adc does not get comfy.

[Cutty]

I wouldn't count Vanessa out just yet. If she came at James with the right argument he could be swayed to keep her over Shelli. There's still a long time before Thursday. 

[Stinamaia]

.

I wish she would have relaxed a bit more so she could have some true connections with the .

I still think she was misunderstood for the most part - her intentions got lost in all the plans and the drama. I don't remember how she got in so thick and heavy with Shelli and Clay. I wonder if that was her big mistake...they don't seem like people who think like her. And definitely it was their influence which caused her to switch from Austin. She put her loyalty to Shelli and Clay above everything, to her own detriment.

I'm pretty sure it was Vanessa who switched the target to Jason because of her alliance with Austin. I don't recall Clay and Shellie who influenced her there, it was more Liz and Steve and her own desire to keep Austin as a shield and a goat. She convinced Clay and Shellie to switch the target, and it was Vanessa's call to blindside Jason and the rest of the house. I'm willing to be told I'm wrong by the more avid feeders since I was on vacation at the time.

I agree that Vanessa spent too much time gaming and not building friendships. In a way, she was like Audrey in that respect.

To me, where she went wrong was deciding it was best for her game to keep Austin and to blindside on the replacement nom. She then doubled down, by going all out to keep Shellie when she probably could have achieved the same thing by just leaving it up to Clay and Shellie. Vanessa had lied and manipulated just as much as anyone, and she hasn't been subtle. I think luck plays a big role in the game, and lately the cards haven't fallen Vannesa's way, and she hasn't adjusted very well.

I don't know if I can watch the feeds this week. I can see a Lord of the Flies mentality building along with the inevitable HOHitis Becky is getting.

wish we could ff to thurs and the second eviction where someone in ss wins so the adc does not get comfy.

 

This happens with many evictions. Vanessa certainly orchestrated some of it with her evictions. One of the reasons I have more respect for James was that he did not get HOHitis during his second HOH. But it seems that they all get it. Vanessa too.

 

I wouldn't count Vanessa out just yet. If she came at James with the right argument he could be swayed to keep her over Shelli. There's still a long time before Thursday.

So true, Van might escape the block and she might escape eviction. She still has strings to pull..

[Cutty]

Reading the updates, they were talking about Vanessa cheating during the HOH comp.
 
Via Jokers:
 

Jackie brings up that Vanessa tried to stick her whole hand down into the jug to try and get the ball during the HOH comp

She claimed she could contort her hand which makes Meg and James start laughing.

James says he saw Vanessa trying to cheat twice and BB finally had to intervene.

James “What was she going to fill her whole bowl up with Crisco and no one was gonna notice?” They all crack up

James “I told Vanessa if she puts too much Crisco in there it’s going to stop the ball from coming to the top” They’re all laughing.
 

[Stinamaia]

Reading the updates, they were talking about Vanessa cheating during the HOH comp.

Via Jokers:

I read that too. Those shenagnigans didn't help her especially when BB made them public and benched her. Wonder if we will see that on the show. Edited August 9, 2015 by Stinamaia

[lasandi]

Angelmi who is recapping the feeds wrote this "loved reading about Vanessa going up to HOH and Becky lying to her face that John was going up Monday even with Vanessa threatening a bad week if she is on the block and turning the jury against her. Becky is pretty tough for someone who was hit by a train."

I say, Becky is pretty tough because she was hit by a train and survived. I imagine once something like that happens to you what's a little threat about a bad week and turning people against you. Sticks and stones baby, sticks and stones.

[kellog010]

I think Vanessa was too loyal to her alliance to the detriment of her game. Austin first screwed Vanessa when he threw the veto competition to John and forced Vanessa to come up with a "reason" to nominate Jeff in first HOH. He did it for purely selfish reasons (Liz liked Jeff) and that was the first strike against her. Her alliance hasn't really done as much for her in return. Austin throw's HOH comps, Shelli and Clay never really gave her that same level of trust she gave them and Steve tried to blend into the background. To the outsiders it looks like Vanessa is an erratic flip-flopper floater, but she's been loyal to her allies. She went too far trying to save Shelli last week and that's going to bite her. I feel bad for Vanessa that her friends are going to let her be blindsided. 

 

A lot can happen in the big brother house, it's a long road to Thursday but if Becky or John make F2 I would sorely be disappointed in this season.

[Cutty]

Vanessa wouldn't be in this spot had she just gone through with the Austin backdoor. She was so concerned with numbers and so paranoid about the other side of the house when in reality they weren't scheming at all. She gave the campers too much credit. They were fine sleeping their way to F8. It's crazy but that one move (saving Austin) tanked the games of the three players who were arguably in the best position prior to it (Vanessa and Clelli).

Edited August 9, 2015 by Cutty

[TimWil]

It really is a long time until Thursday but I think Vanessa's number is up in more ways than one.

Edited August 9, 2015 by TimWil

[Vicky]

I think Vanessa was too loyal to her alliance to the detriment of her game. Austin first screwed Vanessa when he threw the veto competition to John and forced Vanessa to come up with a "reason" to nominate Jeff in first HOH. He did it for purely selfish reasons (Liz liked Jeff) and that was the first strike against her. Her alliance hasn't really done as much for her in return. Austin throw's HOH comps, Shelli and Clay never really gave her that same level of trust she gave them and Steve tried to blend into the background. To the outsiders it looks like Vanessa is an erratic flip-flopper floater, but she's been loyal to her allies. She went too far trying to save Shelli last week and that's going to bite her. I feel bad for Vanessa that her friends are going to let her be blindsided. 

I completely agree.  100%

 

 

I'm pretty sure it was Vanessa who switched the target to Jason because of her alliance with Austin. I don't recall Clay and Shellie who influenced her there, it was more Liz and Steve and her own desire to keep Austin as a shield and a goat. She convinced Clay and Shellie to switch the target, and it was Vanessa's call to blindside Jason and the rest of the house.

My recollection is that Shelli was upset that people didn't get more excited about Clay winning veto and that made her want to turn against the other side.  At the very moment Shelli and Vanessa were talking about it, Austin walked in the room.  He was still in the dark about being the backdoor target.  He mentioned that the target they were going for (can't remember who it was) would be a number for their side.  That, plus how they acted when Clay won, made it clear to Shelli that the other side should be targeted instead of their 'supposed' target (cause Austin was still in the room).  At the time, the 'other' side was Jason, Meg, and Jackie.  Since Vanessa had told Jackie she wouldn't backdoor her, and Meg wasn't thought to be a threat, that left Jason.  It wasn't that Vanessa wanted Jason to go particularly.  I thought it was because Austin and Shelli started worrying about numbers, and Vanessa was forced to choose. 

I'm going to look up that conversation and see if I remember correctly. 

[Cutty]

JMac tells Becky if he wins HOH he would put up the twins and backdoor Austin. Much as I dislike Austin, he's useless. I'd rather just take out Liz.

Becky about Vanessa: Fuck her word. I vomit in my mouth every time she says anything about her word, trust, or loyalty.

 

Alrighty then.

[AndreaK1041]

The house this year seems really anti anyone who could be seen as a schemer. Jeff, Audrey, and Clay all were playing extremely hard early on. Vanessa soon followed. James is a gamer, but isn't scheming. Becky needs to think about that and maybe slow her roll.

Steve and Becky were chatting warmly during BBAD. He even told them (Meg, Jackie, Becky) about Jace calling him Geek Squad McGee (he thought it was Mickey) I think with Vanessa gone, Steve will 100% go against the Austwins.

[xtwheeler]

What is grossing me out is the level of access Liz I'd giving Austin to her body to keep him loyal. Have any men faked it an put up with unwanted touching by a woman as a "strategy?" The only time I can think of anything like it was Mike Boogie and Erika. And he was getting his rocks off just fine, he wasn't just merely putting up with her pawing him.

Who has the brain bleach?

[AndreaK1041]

Cody did it with Christine sort of. I mean, he was not sexually interested in her, but he also seemed to just like people petting him.

Eta: speaking of brain bleach, also gross Matty allowed extremely annoying Nat to give him nightly on-feed BJs despite not liking her. Although I guess he was getting something out of it. Gross. GROSS.

Edited August 9, 2015 by AndreaK1041

[TexasChic]

With all the talk about Liz allowing Austin to touch her so much, I think we should keep in mind that he is the one doing all the touching, so that's on him, not her for not doing enough to stop it. She is in a precarious position being stuck with him 24/7 and not wanting to wreck her game. I'm sure she would be much more direct if they were outside the house. If anything, I see it as him taking advantage of the position she's in when she's clearly not reciprocating. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

[TheRealT]

What is grossing me out is the level of access Liz I'd giving Austin to her body to keep him loyal. Have any men faked it an put up with unwanted touching by a woman as a "strategy?" The only time I can think of anything like it was Mike Boogie and Erika. And he was getting his rocks off just fine, he wasn't just merely putting up with her pawing him.

Who has the brain bleach?

I wouldn't necessarily assume that Liz isn't "getting her rocks off" through her physical contact with Austin. There's this idea that  men can enjoy physical/sexual contact with anyone, regardless of their feelings for that person, while women can only enjoy physical/sexual contact with someone they really care  about, but that's not necessarily true. the house is a weird environment where they're bored all the time and the game overshadows all of their interactions. Austin is good for Liz's game thus far and it's probably nice to have someone paying attention to her, giving her massages, etc. She said she likes tall, muscular guys, so he is at least sort of her physical type from the  neck down. I can totally see how engaging in a little light petting could be ok/fun for her and certainly preferable to dealing with "breaking up" with him, both in terms of the game and her experience with him for the rest of the time she's there.

[TexasChic]

That's a good point too.

[Vixenstud]

 

My recollection is that Shelli was upset that people didn't get more excited about Clay winning veto and that made her want to turn against the other side.  At the very moment Shelli and Vanessa were talking about it, Austin walked in the room.  He was still in the dark about being the backdoor target.  He mentioned that the target they were going for (can't remember who it was) would be a number for their side.  That, plus how they acted when Clay won, made it clear to Shelli that the other side should be targeted instead of their 'supposed' target (cause Austin was still in the room).  At the time, the 'other' side was Jason, Meg, and Jackie.  Since Vanessa had told Jackie she wouldn't backdoor her, and Meg wasn't thought to be a threat, that left Jason.  It wasn't that Vanessa wanted Jason to go particularly.  I thought it was because Austin and Shelli started worrying about numbers, and Vanessa was forced to choose.

 

(Scratches head)….I can’t remember Steve being in the room, I know Chelli were…. IIRC it was Liz who was worrying about the numbers.  She also brought up Jason’s name as a possible replacement and the idea took off from there.

 

 

Becky about Vanessa: Fuck her word. I vomit in my mouth every time she says anything about her word, trust, or loyalty.

 

Still don't trust her, but this?  Could make me like her again!  I just hope her BD speech leaves Vanessa zit faced and slack-jawed as she takes a seat....then she'll know how Jason felt when she blindsided him.

 

 

[lilabennet]

With all the talk about Liz allowing Austin to touch her so much, I think we should keep in mind that he is the one doing all the touching, so that's on him, not her for not doing enough to stop it. She is in a precarious position being stuck with him 24/7 and not wanting to wreck her game. I'm sure she would be much more direct if they were outside the house. If anything, I see it as him taking advantage of the position she's in when she's clearly not reciprocating. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

Yup.  Austin is definitely the asshole in this situation as far as I am concerned.  He is very much like someone who could never afford to buy a Monet that suddenly sees one on sale at a flea market for a dollar.  He must know on some level that in his real life he would never have a chance with Liz and he is taking advantage of her being trapped in a house with him while he can.  Asshole.

[TimWil]

I just don't see any way out of this for Vanessa now. She's like the predatory vamp in a 1930s Noel Coward play-once she realizes the jig is up all she can do is back away very carefully, accepting her fate. I'm just disappointed that she'll get very little interview time with Julie because it's a double eviction night.

Edited August 9, 2015 by TimWil

[Stinamaia]

The blindside of Jason was a bad idea. Putting him up had some rationale, but to make it such a slap to everyone who was on the outside only served to wake them up -- which for me was a big plus.

[pennben]

 

She's like the predatory vamp in a 1930s Noel Coward play-once she realizes the jig is up all she can do is back away very carefully, accepting her fate.

 

What a fantastic description!  I haven't watched much this week and likely won't until Thursday.  As someone said upthread somewhere, it feels like its going to be a bit of a "Lord of the Flies" type week.  I don't like when it gets all vindictive/personal which is where I think we are headed.

 

Among other things, one thing I really respected about James HOH was it was very business-like, nothing personal.  He even made a point of telling Shelli/Clay that several times. 

[Callaphera]

Angelmi who is recapping the feeds wrote this "loved reading about Vanessa going up to HOH and Becky lying to her face that John was going up Monday even with Vanessa threatening a bad week if she is on the block and turning the jury against her. Becky is pretty tough for someone who was hit by a train."

I say, Becky is pretty tough because she was hit by a train and survived. I imagine once something like that happens to you what's a little threat about a bad week and turning people against you. Sticks and stones baby, sticks and stones.

 

Not only that, but the conversation where she successfully lied to Vanessa's face and sounded really good and persuasive? She was on her third glass of wine and pretty tipsy. I still think Becky is pretty dull, but Drunk Becky is pretty good and damn. She lied to Vanessa, who bought it, while drunk-ish. That's talent. She should get wine more often.

[TimWil]

Yes, Jason mentioned in his interview with Jeff Thursday that inside the house it looked like Shelli pulled the strings but after his blindside it looked more like it was Vanessa who was pulling them.

Edited August 9, 2015 by TimWil

[Stinamaia]

With all the talk about Liz allowing Austin to touch her so much, I think we should keep in mind that he is the one doing all the touching, so that's on him, not her for not doing enough to stop it. She is in a precarious position being stuck with him 24/7 and not wanting to wreck her game. I'm sure she would be much more direct if they were outside the house. If anything, I see it as him taking advantage of the position she's in when she's clearly not reciprocating. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

Liz does reciprocate to a degree. In the hammoc, she told him what attracted her to him was his personality, his muscles, and his amazing smile. Or maybe beautiful smile. Something about his smile. That kind of complimenting would lead me to believe she was interested in him had I not seen other comments. She also promised him a kiss if he won which Austin interpreted as the promise of a passionate kiss. She knows she's leading him on. I get it, but Austin is not being entirely irrational the way Caleb was with Amber.

[SiobhanJW]

I think Becky has a bad case of HoHitis. Getting Vanessa out is a good move. Everyone knows that. But enough with the personal attacks at her. It's not attractive.

As a poster said earlier, with James he made it all this is business. It's a game move. Period. Not so much with Becky.

Edited August 9, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[Donny Ketchum]

I think Becky has a bad case of HoHitis. Getting Vanessa out is a good move. Everyone knows that. But enough with the personal attacks at her. It's not attractive.

As a poster said earlier, with James he made it all this is business. It's a game move. Period. Not so much with Becky.

Meh.  Vanessa's screwed over enough people that it's not undeserved, IMO.

[AndreaK1041]

While Becky is making it more personal than James, it's not like she is being completely rude about it. We'll see what happens after the ceremony, but I think right now wanting Vanessa to leave her alone is ok. We have seen how Vanessa is when she is pushing for something. I'd try to avoid that at all costs, too. It's not like she's telling people to be rude or not to talk to her. A little shit talk among your alliance about your target is just fine in my book, especially when that person is manically protecting her alliance of which you are not a member.

Edited August 9, 2015 by AndreaK1041

[Donny Ketchum]

Meg just told Jackie that John hates Vanessa as much as they do.  So much so that he is a little mad he isn't the one getting Vanessa out this week.

 

Jackie said that she feels the same way.

 

Wow.  Everybody wants Vanessa's blood on their hands, and I love it!:)

[Vicky]

I realize this is all water under the bridge and it doesn't matter.  It doesn't even matter what is true - it only matters what the other houseguests perceive.
But - I said I wanted to go back to review how Austin got off the block.  Where did the first inkling come from. 
It looks to me like it was a perfect storm of information:  Austin and Clay talking about the numbers on both sides and the Jason/Meg/James group not appearing to go along with the plan to pull Clay off the block.  From 7/25 5:06 pm or so through to this conversation around 5:39, Vanessa and Shelli are on board with getting Austin out, they're getting ready to let Liz in on it and are discussing how that will work out.  There's some discussion about a rumored 6 person alliance (James, Jason, Meg, Jackie, Becky, and John) who were hoping that Clay could stay on the block against Austin instead of Becky. Then he could accidentally get voted out.  Shelli gets fearful.  She says she's going to war if this is true.  Austin walks in and discusses the numbers side of things.  This is also when Austin lies about the Audrey vote.  After he leaves, they're still on board to get Austin out - especially since Austin lied about the Audrey vote (which Vanessa knows about from Julia). 
But, Shelli wants to investigate this possible 6 person alliance first.
This conversation is at 5:39:

Vanessa - I want to talk after we have this conversation with Liz.  I want you me and Clay to have a really big discussion to decide what we're going to do.  'Cause at the end of the day it comes down to do we trust James and...yes, it is a 3 headed monster with Austin and the two twins, but is it more scary than James, Meg, and James, or a 4 headed monster in the other four. 
Shelli - Right?  How dumb were we...this is the thing we were freaking out that you remained in power, this was in the stars.  If Jackie was still in power, we could have been so freaking dumb this week.  We could have just make a freaking...
Vanessa - there's no...I mean, do you believe though that Meg and James and Jason were going to be really loyal to us, or no?  Is it just a one week thing where they're happy they weren't the target?
Shelli - I think...I think that they blow with the wind.  You know how much Meg freaks out about making any big moves in this game, like...
Vanessa - Another hard part is I gave my word
Shelli - You gave your word what?
Vanessa - My word that...
Shelli - To who?
Vanessa - Becky...and Clay.  And everyone in the 8 person alliance.
Shelli - But, you know what?  Shit changes - so fast in this game.  I'm starting to freak out.
Vanessa - But I will say that I have levels of loyalty.  And I always did say that I was most loyal to you two, like us three, so...so if it comes down to that, that's my moral justification for myself.
Shelli - Moral compass, yeah.
Vanessa - I can't believe you would even ask me if I knew something I wasn't telling you [reference to earlier in the conversation when Shelli asked Vanessa if she knew about this 6 person alliance].  Are you kidding me?  I don't know what else I can do to show you my fucking loyalty girl, you better be smiling right now is all I've got to say.
Shelli - well, you know, you know...
Vanessa - yeah, literally, like are you fucking kidding me?  I am the most loyal soldier you will ever fucking get in this game period.
Shelli - And you're right, you know, they're not going to be stupid enough to tell you, people know that you and i are close.  They're not going to be stupid enough to tell you they're gunning against Clay.

 

 

That conversation describes Vanessa's game.
She is a loyal soldier.

Given that, Shelli is the leader of the Shelli, Clay, Vanessa trio.  She may not overtly understand it, but subconsciously she knows.

So - as I said, water under the bridge because that's not how the houseguests see it. 

 

 

You can hide a lot of things under a pretty smile and a friendly disposition.

[RedheadZombie]

Liz does reciprocate to a degree. In the hammoc, she told him what attracted her to him was his personality, his muscles, and his amazing smile. Or maybe beautiful smile. Something about his smile. That kind of complimenting would lead me to believe she was interested in him had I not seen other comments. She also promised him a kiss if he won which Austin interpreted as the promise of a passionate kiss. She knows she's leading him on. I get it, but Austin is not being entirely irrational the way Caleb was with Amber.

 

While I find it distasteful, I don't really have a problem with Liz using Austin as part of her gameplay.   What I do have a problem with, is her THs and twin-twin conversations almost mocking Austin and pointing out how unattractive she finds him.  To me - and this is strictly my opinion - she's heading down a trail blazed by Mike Boogie.  To this day, I despise Boogie for how he humiliated Erika, and I would feel like a hypocrite for giving Liz a free pass. 

 

I agree about Amber, and I'm a little tired of the comparison.  Liz is by no means isolated.  In fact, I would say she has better connections than Austin.  When Vanessa leaves, so does Austin's greatest defender.  He should follow right behind her.  Once the twins are put up against Austin, I imagine Liz will turn on him in a flash.  That's part of the game.  I just don't enjoy the humiliation - no matter how weird and smelly you are.

[Kris117]

I can understand why people are keeping Vanessa in the dark about going up after Steve pulls himself off the block. The way she bombards people with demanding emotional rhetoric borders on bullying to me. At the very least, it's exhausting. I don't think that sparing themselves a day or two of that is going to make the remaining days of the week after the Veto ceremony any worse.

If poker were a game that required more conversation than "Call" or "Raise," etc., Vanessa would never have done so well.

[peachmangosteen]

Becky about Vanessa: Fuck her word. I vomit in my mouth every time she says anything about her word, trust, or loyalty.

 

LMAO! Becky has been killing it this week!

 

I'm really kinda confused by all this talk of Becky' HOHitis and Lord of the Flies situation. I haven't seen that at all. What has Becky said/done that's been a personal attack on Vanessa? I've seen her get fired about about the bullshit Vanessa's pulled, but that was purely game related. I just don't see Becky doing anything worse than Vanessa (and Shelli) did when she was HOH. And I mean Vanessa was calling Becky a bitch this week, too, so meh.

[Cutty]

Meh.  Vanessa's screwed over enough people that it's not undeserved, IMO.

 

This. She's slung her fair share of personal shit. She lost me when she claimed Audrey manipulated her because she was a lesbian. Not only was it a bold faced lie, but there was just no reason to go there. 

Edited August 9, 2015 by Cutty