The NBA

[Growsonwalls]

Patrick Ewing has tested positive for coronavirus.

[DoctorAtomic]

What the fuck are people doing that they're testing positive at this point?

[Sew Sumi]

27 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

What the fuck are people doing that they're testing positive at this point?

Especially a wealthy man in his mid-50s. It shouldn't have been hard for him to quarantine.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

What the fuck are people doing that they're testing positive at this point?

Well he is apparently in the hospital. So he might have been positive for awhile and his situation deteriorated. One of the scary things about the virus is how people go from "ok" to "ICU" in a hot minute.

[Danny Franks]

13 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I thought the documentary did show how instrumental Krause was to putting the team together, in the first two or three episodes. And that that was the point - that he felt he didn't get as much credit as he should have gotten for that.

And they definitely highlighted Jordan and Pippen's straight disrespect and dislike for Krause. That was very much highlighted. Jordan and Pippen went after Kukoc during the Olympic match purely because Krause was scouting Kukoc for the Bulls. 

SB Nation have a series on Youtube called Collapse. They look at different sporting franchises over a period of time, and chart how they went from contenders to terrible. They did one on the post-98 Bulls, and it highlighted something interesting:

Krause was good at scouting and identifying talent. As well as Kukoc, he drafted Jay Williams (who looking promising until a motorcycle accident ended his career after one season), Elton Brand, Eddy Curry, Ben Gordon and Ron Artest. All players who had good NBA careers... just not for the Bulls.

Looking at a lot of teams in the NBA that are a total mess, and have been for years, should be enough evidence of how important it is to have competent organisations off the court (watch the Knicks episode of Collapse).

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

What the fuck are people doing that they're testing positive at this point?

More people are testing positive now than there were two months ago.  Partly because testing is more widely available, but also because this virus is hella contagious.  Staying home for the most part and wearing a mask when venturing out for necessities is not a guarantee someone won't catch it.

[Growsonwalls]

Sam Smith casts doubt on the pizza story:

Sam Smith about The Last Dance

Quote

“The pizza thing — the poison — that was complete nonsense,” Smith said. “There were a couple of other things like that I won’t go into. They weren’t major, but the thing at the end [about Jordan returning to play in 1998-99] was a complete, blatant lie. I know what happened.”

And to no one's surprise apparently Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant are estranged from MJ:

Quote

“Horace was a stubborn guy in his own right. He was very close with Scottie. That was always Scottie’s closest friend,” Smith said. “And I think that’s what all this is about. He’s talking to Scottie. Scottie hasn’t said anything publicly. Hasn’t said a single thing about this and everything has been forced, if you will. I think he’s defending Scottie. I think they still talk almost every day. This is probably partially coming from Scottie as far as a reaction to the things Horace is saying.”

Jesus. This might eclipse the Jalen Rose/Chris Webber feud in terms of longevity.

[truthaboutluv]

The documentary never said Michael was deliberately poisoned. Sure, one can say it was framed in way to make it sound all salacious. But all that was said was that contrary to reports all those years ago that it was a flu, Michael really had food poisoning.

And if that guy who claims to have delivered the pizza is telling the truth, then we know that a pizza delivery happened and that Michael Jordan was indeed very sick the next day. 

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

And to no one's surprise apparently Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant are estranged from MJ:

Estranged...were they married, lol? And maybe I'm the weird one, or probably because my favorite sport is an individual sport but does it really matter if former professional teammates aren't best or even close friends years later? They were colleagues. 

Honestly, I feel like this is just everyone trying to all get in on a big story at the moment, with little else going on, besides hoping this pandemic ends and life goes back to normal.

The documentary was huge, probably again because there wasn't much else going on (though I'm sure it would have still gotten decent viewers without the pandemic) and it's all many are discussing in the sports world and so everyone has to throw in their two cents. 

YMMV, I don't know about anyone else but I never saw this as some definitive word on everything that went on with this team. The documentary was narrated by and clearly mostly Michael's story and perception of what went down all these years ago.

I'm sure many of the people involved could point to a million things and say "well that's not exactly how I remember it". But really, unless there were egregious mis-truths - does it matter?

Edited May 24, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[woodstock]

I enjoyed every minute of 'The Last Dance' as a trip down memory lane (I was in my 20s during the Bulls dynasty). It was great reliving that time period and being reminded of the impact MJ and the Bulls had on the NBA.

14 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

The documentary was huge, probably again because there wasn't much else going on (though I'm sure it would have still gotten decent viewers without the pandemic) and it's all many are discussing in the sports world and so everyone has to throw in their two cents. 

For me the reactions from MJ's former teammates, other NBA players, coaches, media personalities, etc. about 'The Last Dance' have been nearly as entertaining as the documentary itself.

[DoctorAtomic]

I have to laugh at this point when Jordan says, 'It became personal to me.' Dude. They out of your favorite ice cream, it's personal to you. 

After nine hours of this, it getting exhausting. 

I think it's more amazing the Bulls won so much with having to deal with his bullshit all the time. 

It's just mind boggling and NBA Finals game is in the 70s. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Sew Sumi]

Patrick Ewing has been released from the hospital. 

[Growsonwalls]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I have to laugh at this point when Jordan says, 'It became personal to me.' Dude. They out of your favorite ice cream, it's personal to you. 

After nine hours of this, it getting exhausting. 

I think it's more amazing the Bulls won so much with having to deal with his bullshit all the time. 

It's just mind boggling and NBA Finals game is in the 70s. 

The other drinking game to play is every time Jordan laughs and then puts down another player, take a drink. Although he has the most bitter laugh. There’s the type of person who can pull off the good natured smug laugh but he isn’t one of them.

eta: here is David Robinson doing good things. 
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/05/22/the-admiral-donates-100-pizzas-to-frontline-workers-in-san-antonio/

Edited May 26, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[DoctorAtomic]

I like to drink, and I'm not even taking those odds. 

[Growsonwalls]

So I watched 30 for 30's "Winning Time" on ESPN+ tonight. Absolutely loved reliving the Pacers/Knicks rivalry. Great fun. As you might expect this documentary is slanted towards Reggie's POV but while he clearly relishes his memory as the "villain" he also comes across as good-natured and fun. No real malice. Just a guy who played hard and talked trash.

The documentary was honestly a balm after watching The Last Dance. Everyone interviewed is a good sport. There's no one who is holding an eternal grudge. Spike Lee laughs his way through his interviews.

[mojoween]

Whatever format the NBA comes up with, I hope it’s one that helps the Pelicans overcome four games and get into the playoffs.

[xaxat]

When did Chris Mullin become an astronaught?

[emma675]

Holy cow, I thought that was Joe Biden at first glance!

[DoctorAtomic]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking. 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/michael-jordan-dream-team-isiah-thomas-audio/asgq66i6eu6i15k4pzez093nx

 

[DrSpaceman73]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

So I watched 30 for 30's "Winning Time" on ESPN+ tonight. Absolutely loved reliving the Pacers/Knicks rivalry. Great fun. As you might expect this documentary is slanted towards Reggie's POV but while he clearly relishes his memory as the "villain" he also comes across as good-natured and fun. No real malice. Just a guy who played hard and talked trash.

The documentary was honestly a balm after watching The Last Dance. Everyone interviewed is a good sport. There's no one who is holding an eternal grudge. Spike Lee laughs his way through his interviews.

I love that documentary

Reggie put the Pacers on the NBA map with game 5 of the 1994 series.  Up until then the Pacers are an afterthought on the NBA map.  They had some mediocre years but no one cared about them.  There was no rival for them.  They were in the worst spot as a sports team.  No one hated or loved them or even cared about them outside the Indianapolis area.  Even the local fans were lukewarm to them.  They never had a superstar individual before then. 

That game changed everything for the team.  Even though they lost the series, they have been a consistent winning and contending team since then.  And yes they had won a few series before then that year, but I don't think anyone, again even local fans at the time, took them seriously as contenders. 

It took the perfect storm of things to happen to create that game.  Jordan retiring.  Pacers finally had a good team.  It was on the national stage in New York.  Spike Lee did his part.  Everything fell together in just the right way to create that moment, out of nowhere really, I don't think anyone expected it. 

 

And onto the current state of the NBA, it seems likely they are going to create a finish to the season starting in Late July.  Though it could take 3 months to complete if they play all remaining games and then a full playoffs, which puts the end of the season right up to the start of the next one in mid/late October.

I expect they will do something like the NHL version and do basically an early round of extra playoffs from 8 or so teams to determine the sixteen to advance to the traditional playoff schedule.  NHL took 24 teams, 16 play in the first round and 8 get a bye.  Then 8 winners and then the 8 bye teams will then make up a typical 16 team playoff format.  A similar arrangement can work in the NBA

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not sure they need to play all the regular season games anyway. They already had a 50 game season that worked fine. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Overtime in Jazz II and neither team can crack 90! It kills me. And then 54!

Edited May 26, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

On 5/17/2020 at 9:10 PM, AimingforYoko said:

Rodman disappearing after Game 3 in '98 to rassle with Hulk Hogan.

I have no memory of this either. I wasn't watching tv regularly at the time just because I was in college with a lot of roommates. I'm surprised he didn't say anything like he did when he wanted the 48 hours off. 

In fact, I think I was in line at a bar when I saw Jordan strip Malone, so I didn't even watch that game at all. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Growsonwalls]

So I've been watching a few of the NBA legends draft videos. One thing that's striking is how YOUNG they are in mannerisms despite looking like these very big, tall, fit, adult athletes. They look mature but they're really little kids. It's endearing.

Steph Curry looking all of 14 years old and playing video games:

Karl Malone very overwhelmed, crying the whole time:

Charles Barkley struggling with weight problems even DURING draft season and being chatty and fun like he is now:

Reggie Miller being a little nervous. Back then he was still more known for being Cheryl Miller's brother:

David Robinson signing autographs like a pro already:

Scottie Pippen rocking a southern drawl. Back then his name was "Scott Pippen"?

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[DoctorAtomic]

I had no idea Pippen had the back problems in the last game either. I'm way more impressed than the flu game or whatever. 

[Ohwell]

Steph did look 14 in that draft video, lol.

[DoctorAtomic]

I was impressed at the end Pippen did have nice words to say about Krause. 

[Growsonwalls]

I was reading on reddit that part of the reason Pippen might be upset about the migraine story is that earlier in the game he got a hard foul and was knocked to the ground and was out for a few. Looking back, it was a tell-tale concussion but they didn't know that. So the migraine wasn't just something where he could pop a few Advil and get back in it -- he probably actually needed to be pulled from the game full stop.

[DoctorAtomic]

As having had only three concussions, I can say he either couldn't see to some degree or his depth perception was so out of whack he would have been able to stand up, let alone get down the court. 

Clearly, he doesn't lack conviction given him playing with the bad back. 

[Carey]

7 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not sure they need to play all the regular season games anyway. They already had a 50 game season that worked fine. 

Agreed.  There's no reason to play all the regular season games, though maybe if you had a play-in format where the worst team played the second worst team in a one-and-done scenario, with the winner playing the third worst...all the way to the 9th seed, I might buy that.  The logistics are too much to figure out (which is okay since better & smarter people would be making the final decisions instead) but I'd imagine the NBA would want to do it right without copying from the NHL given that their sport is a bigger deal (but not for everyone)

 

As mentioned, they ought to treat 2020-2021 like it's a lockout year with resolution and maybe resume in the New Year.  Otherwise, they'll never get caught up to its normal schedule.  Personally, I'm just glad that it looks like the plans are ones where it's a matter of when and no if the NBA will return

[Growsonwalls]

Watched another bit of 90s NBA nostalgia from the 30 for 30 series: This Magic Moment. About the heady early years of the Orlando Magic that exploded with Shaq and Penny. Great, fun documentary. It's amazing to see that Shaq is still basically the big goofball he was when he first entered the NBA and Penny is still sort of sullen and serious. People don't change, Also brought back memories of some 90s personalities like the hapless coach Brian Hill and players like Dennis Scott, Horace Grant and Nick Anderson. Ah, good times.

I do wonder what would have happened had Shaq stayed and Penny not blown apart his knee.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[DoctorAtomic]

I think you need enough regular season games to warm everyone up and give teams a fair shake in getting playoff positions. That's not that much though, and I think everyone will be amped to get out there. 

I don't think Shaq would have stayed. The Lakers are too sweet a call.

[Growsonwalls]

31 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think you need enough regular season games to warm everyone up and give teams a fair shake in getting playoff positions. That's not that much though, and I think everyone will be amped to get out there. 

I don't think Shaq would have stayed. The Lakers are too sweet a call.

Yeah, and Shaq and Kobe were such a great but problematic duo that it supplied years of NBA drama. In fact I bet there will be a book coming out about the Shaq Kobe Lakers drama. 

[xaxat]

One reason why the league is looking at playing regular season games is that  many teams are contracted to provide seventy games of content to their respective regional sports networks. Anything less than that might mean rebates. Most teams are at about 65 games and they have to subtract out national broadcasts on top of that.

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

One reason why the league is looking at playing regular season games is that  many teams are contracted to provide seventy games of content to their respective regional sports networks. Anything less than that might mean rebates. Most teams are at about 65 games and they have to subtract out national broadcasts on top of that.

Didn't realize that, good to know

I imagine they will play a 10 or so game "regular season" in that case and then go to the playoffs. 

And it would help the players get back in shape too. 

[Growsonwalls]

After watching This Magic Moment: poor Nick Anderson 😞 

ETA: also poor Penny. That knee injury looked so painful.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[cleo]

NBA projecting August to start seems silly to me. They might as well just wait for the new season to start. If they're that desperate for revenue, just scrap this season and start the 2020 season a month earlier, in September.

[Growsonwalls]

Watching "Best of Enemies" -- the Lakers vs. Celtics documentary.

Maybe I'm naive but I was shocked at the racism of the Boston fans during the 1960's. Boston wasn't Birmingham, Alabama. It's a good thing Bill Russell seemed to have a strong sense of self. 

Also that whole incident between Magic and Paul Westhead reminds me that stadium-sized egos and stars demanding to be traded because they're unhappy with the coach are nothing new in the NBA.

[Growsonwalls]

More The Last Dance stuff: Cedric Maxwell and Robert Parish talk shit about MJ:

Parish compares the 84 Celtics to the 96/97 Bulls. Said MJ was a different kind of leader than Larry Bird -- a "bully" and he's not MJ's biggest fan. 

Is there a single person in the NBA who really likes MJ as a person? Doesn't seem there is.

[DoctorAtomic]

Rodman? 

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Rodman? 

Rodman has said he and MJ don't really talk. Rodman respects MJ and MJ did seem to have a soft spot for Rodman but they don't seem close. 

When I watched the Best of Enemies I thought that it was weird that these figures described as super aloof (Bill Russell, Kareem) nowadays pop up all over social media and seem pretty active and buddy-buddy.

As for the NBA resuming the season I wonder how KD or Steph Curry feel about that. Not that it matters but I had a feeling both had sort of decided that this was their year to sit out and rest their nasty injuries and now they might both have to come back.

[Danny Franks]

14 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Watching "Best of Enemies" -- the Lakers vs. Celtics documentary.

Maybe I'm naive but I was shocked at the racism of the Boston fans during the 1960's. Boston wasn't Birmingham, Alabama. It's a good thing Bill Russell seemed to have a strong sense of self. 

New England racism is interesting. It seems to come from an opposite place to southern racism, in that there were relatively few African-Americans up in the north east, so that sense of 'other' was far stronger.

This crossed over into other sports too. George Preston Marshall, owner of the Boston Braves (who moved to Washington and took an even worse name) refused to have black players, and the Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate.

[Fukui San]

9 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

More The Last Dance stuff: Cedric Maxwell and Robert Parish talk shit about MJ:

Parish compares the 84 Celtics to the 96/97 Bulls. Said MJ was a different kind of leader than Larry Bird -- a "bully" and he's not MJ's biggest fan. 

Is there a single person in the NBA who really likes MJ as a person? Doesn't seem there is.

I think Charles Oakley is the one who still seems like a buddy.

[Danny Franks]

31 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

I think Charles Oakley is the one who still seems like a buddy.

Surprisingly, considering how bad the blood was between the Bulls and Knicks in the mid-90s. I guess Jordan finds it easier to forgive considering he was on the winning side.

[Ohwell]

18 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Watching "Best of Enemies" -- the Lakers vs. Celtics documentary.

Maybe I'm naive but I was shocked at the racism of the Boston fans during the 1960's. Boston wasn't Birmingham, Alabama. It's a good thing Bill Russell seemed to have a strong sense of self. 

I visited Boston back in '69 and experienced racism first hand.  I'll never forget that.

Years later I had to go back for business and I was still cautious.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ohwell

[DoctorAtomic]

Yeah, but Rodman was the only one in the documentary who didn't really say or imply Jordan was an asshole. You can like someone and not really talk. 

9 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I visited Boston back in '69 and experienced racism first hand.  I'll never forget that.

New England/New York fans are horrible. Throw in Philadelphia too. 

[Growsonwalls]

Still watching Best of Enemies. Kareem's skyhook is so fucking cool. I wish some other center could do that. 

[Growsonwalls]

Finishing up Best of Enemies. I thought it was hilarious that years later it's Kurt Rambis still snorting with anger at Kevin McHale. You never know who's going to take this shit way too personal.

[Growsonwalls]

Going through these "30 for 30's." Watching "The Announcement" now about Magic Johnson's HIV diagnosis. I'm not one of those people who believes "everything happens for a reason" but I honestly think, looking back, that if HIV needed a public face, Magic was MEANT to be that public face. To this day he's open and friendly and willing to talk about being HIV+.

Hard to stomach how close-minded people were about the disease back then but he WAS the perfect person to go public with his disease. He didn't do everything right (his ill-advised appearance on Arsenio Hall, ugh) but the fact that he lives a happy, vital life also was the message people needed (and still need). 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[Ohwell]

HOF player Wes Unseld, who played for the then Washington Bullets, has died at age 74.  The only NBA game I went to was in the 70s when I saw the Bullets play the Knicks.  What a game.

R.I.P., Wes 

https://wtop.com/washington-wizards/2020/06/wes-unseld-of-bullets-and-wizards-fame-dies-at-74/

[Growsonwalls]

A slew of former and current NBA stars speaking out about the George Floyd death and protests. Not just the usual suspects like Steve Kerr or Steph and Lebron but from many of the stars who usually don't speak about anything political. Shaq, Dennis Rodman, Metta World Peace, too many to mention.

There was even a rare personal statement from MJ:

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Growsonwalls