The NBA

[AimingforYoko]

The Lakers have Anthony Davis, Rajon Rondo and Boogie Cousins. All they need is to swing a trade for Jrue Holiday and they got the band back together.

[DrSpaceman]

The whole thing with NBA free agency is fascinating for so many reasons.

I generally get sick of the intermixture of social commentary and sports, it seems we can't have any game anymore without some stupid controversy like over sneakers with an old flag on them, but here it is hard to ignore.  You can go in so many directions with this

First of all, love him or not (And I don't really) and whether you loved the way he did it or not, Lebron with his "decision" to go to South Beach all those years ago changed all of NBA free agency on a permanent basis.  His decision and how he went about it now seems to be the norm for how the NBA works.  Less power to the GMs and owners, more power to the players.  The great players more and more are deciding amongst themselves where to go and them demanding it from the teams.  Yes there were people demanding trades before this, he was not the first to do so.  But he was the first to publically decide he was choosing and teaming up with who he wants to play with, the defacto GM creating his own team. 

Second, the NBA players have shown they have far more power than in any other pro league.  Part of that is the fact there are only 5 players on a team and you basically need a trio of top players to make a contender, so its easier to create that than in other leagues.  But for whatever reason, the players control the destiny of the league in the NBA, not just from a playing but also a personal management standpoint, far more than any other pro league. 

The fact that it is predominantly African American players, though there are many European and foreign players now as well, that are wielding this power and controlling this much economic capital in this era is interesting as well and can be a topic unto itself

Then there is what has happened with the lets say marquee markets and secondary markets in the past few years.  I don't like to say large and small.  Toronto is a huge city, but its a secondary NBA market, not a marquee one.  The marquee markets are NY, LA, Miami, probably Boston given its NBA history, maybe some others.  Consider that up until Kawhi made this decision, in the last few years, the secondary markets seemed to have made a major step forward in acquiring top FA talent.  Paul George goes to OKC, they think its only for a year, but they take a gamble and what do you know, he stayed, new contract!!!  It seemed the gamble paid off.  Same with Toronto and Kawhi, they did the same.  Had on year, took a risk, they win a title, maybe he stays?  Now you can argue Toronto probably still would have done this deal knowing he would leave.  I would agree, most teams would take having a star player for one year and a title even knowing he leaves.  Still though, in one SWIFT move, Kawhi sweeps the rug out from under the idea of secondary market teams trying this strategy by not only leaving Toronto but also taking PG WITH HIM from OKC.  Pretty much ruined their plans too.  Two secondary markets now rebuilding because once again the secondary markets cannot keep top talent long term.  The message is to those teams, you can get a player for a year or two but not longer

Then there is the LA Lakers NY Knicks angle.  Within the LA/NY marquee markets in both cases, you have primary teams and secondary teams there as well.  The big names are lakers and Knicks, then you have the Nets and CLippers, the lesser known and less marquee teams.  I can't even say less accomplished with Knicks and Nets, the Nets I think have actually been the better team over the last 20 years,  Anyway the point being, traditionally, you go to LA to play for the Lakers.  you go to NY to play for the Knicks.  This year the Clippers and Nets though made off with the free agent halls, not the Lakers and Knicks.  For the Knicks its not a surprise, just general incompetence that has continued at every turn.  They didn't offer Durant a max contract?  They didn't meet with I forget if it was Kawhi or Kyrie because of scheduling?  Come on!!!  ANd the Lakers, yes, they got Unibrow, but after that, no one else really.  They have about a two year window now I think, 3 max, with Lebron aging, to win, beyond that, the future right now for Anthony Davis is the same as it was in NO.  Him and what else?  The fact those lesser teams in the bigger markets made such big splashes is interesting too. 

Then finally personally, as a Pacers fan, while they are one of those secondary markets and will never get the big name agents, I am continuously fascinated by how they make things work and remain as at least contenders, a solid team.  They lost Bogdonovich, which is disappointing, but they sign a big FA guard from Milwaukee in Brogdon, who is a big upgrade at that spot.  Lamb is a good second string guard as well.  They add a shooter they need in TJ warren as well.  This was a big FA season for the Pacers with lots of changes and even though they were largely ignored, as is usual, among the top FA options and kind of fly under the national NBA radar this time of year, I expect them to once again be in the 3rd-6th spot of contention for playoffs in the east.  Is it disappointing they never seem to have the ability to make the big moves needed to win in the NBA, with the above mentioned system they are left out of pretty much?  Sure, but I still admire how they don't just do the "Tank for draft picks" options and suck for years to be good and they typically manage to put together solid teams year in and out.  Its hard to do in this NBA climate in a market like Indiana.  Also reportedly the guy they did draft, who I had never heard of, Goga Bitadze, is supposedly a great player they didn't see being there at that spot, so they may have managed to pull off a steal at #18, though still questionable how he will work into the lineup that already has Turner and Sabonic, all seem like similar players. 

If nothing else, NBA free agency is not boring, even if it does piss me off still that a basically incompetent Lakers front office can still end up with Lebron and Anthony Davis, contending for at least a few years 

[Maximum Taco]

More stuff leaking about the Leonard free agent meetings. 

Apparently Kawhi's camp asked Toronto to trade for Paul George and Bradley Beal, but the Raptors brass didn't believe it was a serious request as Kawhi continued to escalate his demands, and it was apparent Kawhi was always focused on a return to LA. No short term deals were discussed (and really only a short term deal would've made sense for both the Raptors and Kawhi.)

The ask around George was reigning MIP Pascal Siakam, FMVP "runner up" Fred Van Vleet, 4 unprotected first rounders, and (for salary matching reasons) almost certainly one of Kyle Lowry, Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol. Talks never got beyond preliminary because the Raptors didn't have a firm commitment from Kawhi that he would sign if George was acquired and also because the Raptors felt that these were not serious talks and OKC was only using them as leverage to bleed the Clippers dry, which they did. It might be crazy but it feels like Kawhi was using the Raptors to try and bait the Clippers into making an offer for George that OKC couldn't refuse. 

Also apparently Kawhi was meeting with George on the same day he was meeting with the Lakers FO. And 2 hours before he actually announced that he was going to the Clippers, he asked the Lakers to delay the AD trade until Saturday/Sunday. Again, it might seem crazy, but it really feels like Kawhi was trying to sabotage the Lakers, and only announced his decision once it was clear the Lakers were going through with the AD trade on schedule. 

The Drama. Gotta love NBA free agency. I'm pretty happy Masai didn't even consider that deal though, doesn't make any sense to move on George and gut the franchise if Kawhi wasn't willing to make a firm commitment. Not sure if I'm reading too much into Kawhi's actions, but he might just be a 4D Chess playing evil genius. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[Fukui San]

26 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

If nothing else, NBA free agency is not boring, even if it does piss me off still that a basically incompetent Lakers front office can still end up with Lebron and Anthony Davis, contending for at least a few years  

I'm resigned to it at this point. Say the absolute worst case scenario happens. Lebron gets a serious injury which diminishes him for the rest of his career. Davis, seeing that he'll have to carry this franchise with no help, opts out and the franchise becomes a barren wasteland. I would then expect some superstar would suddenly fight his way out his current situation to save the franchise undeservedly.  2021 Giannis declaring that he always loved the Lakers or something like that.

[DrSpaceman]

At some point the owners/GMs are going to revolt against the player control, just say no, sorry, I don't care if you want to go somewhere else, we aren't trading you.  Want to sit out a year?  OK, feel free.  See you in court for your salary. 

Maybe that is what Toronto was starting to do with the supposed George trade because it does seem they were being played vs. the Clippers and if Kawhi wouldn't commit and kept demanding more, I can see them just saying no and dropping out. 

If I am OKC though, I would have just said sorry, you aren't being traded PG.  Everyone keeps talking about the draft picks they gave for him, but those picks may not mean anything.  If they are mid to lower round picks, which they should be if the Clippers end up any good, you aren't acquiring much with those picks.  Unlikely to find a player of PG caliber. 

In the NFL that would be a GREAT trade.  In the NBA, its a crapshoot, you could end up with four picks from 25th to 30th that won't do anything for your team

[LexieLily]

42 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't expect Westbrook to be playing any longer for OKC.   I think it is obvious that OKC is rebuilding.   I don't think Westbrook fits in with those plans.   There were rumors that he could be traded to Miami.

If the only reason Jimmy Butler went to Miami as opposed to going to Houston or staying in Philly was so he could be the man and not the second/third option, he and Westbrook on the same team should be fantastic together, in a we-can't-wait-to-see-this-implode sort of way.

[Danny Franks]

44 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't expect Westbrook to be playing any longer for OKC.   I think it is obvious that OKC is rebuilding.   I don't think Westbrook fits in with those plans.   There were rumors that he could be traded to Miami.

Maybe they do want to move on from Westbrook, but that will be easier said than done. Miami with Westbrook and Butler would be a catastrophe waiting to happen, and few other teams can afford Westbrook's contract, even if the OKC gave some draft picks as part of the deal.

The Knicks could, but Westbrook is the antithesis of the model they appear to have settled into - Once it became clear that Durant wasn't on the table, the Knicks have declared they're ready to roll with their young guys and the role players they've signed. Westbrook would not help the development of those young guys at all. Of course, it would be very Knicks-y to find themselves unable to resist a big name, no matter the fit or the cost.

[Jx223]

IMO, it's unfortunate to see how OKC is falling as a franchise. They are one of my favorite teams and have had so much talent over the years but have come close, but fallen short of winning two championships. If they do trade Russell Westbrook,

I hope he's traded somewhere where the team is still competitive and will make the playoffs. I've heard some interesting rumors/reports about teams that could trade for him, to include the Pistsons, T-Wolves and even the Rockets. (Though, that it reported to be more of a long shot)

Somewhere like the Pistons could be interesting. If he were paired with Blake Griffin I think (if they stayed healthy) they get the Pistons back to the playoffs and maybe a better seed than they had this year (which was 8th.) Maybe with a bit of push they could at least make the 2nd round, which is more than OKC has done since KD left. I think I even saw a trade scenario where they would be able to keep Andre Drummond as well. If so, a trio of Russ, Blake and Andre could at least be competitive in the East. 

I've also seen some other suggestions/potential trade destinations mentioned as well. Russell is one of my favorite players so I hope he ends up in a place where he can at least compete.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Jx223

[catlover79]

JR Smith at the MLB All-Star festivities in Cleveland:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/cut4/j-r-smith-shirtless-for-celebrity-softball-game.html

[Kip Hackman]

On 7/8/2019 at 10:01 AM, Jx223 said:

IMO, it's unfortunate to see how OKC is falling as a franchise.

No sympathy here. OKC tried to pilfer the Hornets from New Orleans, and when that failed, stole the Sonics from Seattle.  And then somehow ended up with Durant, Westbrook, & Harden in their laps. As fanbases go, they've had a pretty easy ride.

It's about time that town learned what it's really like to have a small-market NBA team.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Kip Hackman

[LexieLily]

14 hours ago, Kip Hackman said:

No sympathy here. OKC tried to pilfer the Hornets from New Orleans, and when that failed, stole the Sonics from Seattle.  And then somehow ended up with Durant, Westbrook, & Harden in their laps. As fanbases go, they've had a pretty easy ride.

It's about time that town learned what it's really like to have a small-market NBA team.

All of which have won MVPs and they only have the worst one left on their team.

[Fukui San]

I really hope 7’7” Tacko Fall has a future in this league. He’d be an entertaining sideshow. He seems to me more functional as a basketball player than Manute Bol ever was, but obviously with work to do. I guess it’s a testament to how much the game has changed that he was undrafted. I think he’s worth having on the bench as a 10 minute/game change of pace guy. 

[Jx223]

According to Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter OKC has agreed to trade Russell Westbrook to the Houston Rockets for Chris Paul and picks. I wish Russ the best with his new team and his reunion with James Harden.

From what I understand they have stayed friends since James left OKC. I am interested in seeing how they and the Rockets fare together now that they are reunited as teammates. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jx223

[mojoween]

The Rockets?!?  Where did THAT come from?

[Jx223]

5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

The Rockets?!?  Where did THAT come from?

The Rockets was actually one of the first teams that were mentioned as being interested in Russ, when it was reported he was open to be traded. Them and teams like the Heat. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jx223

[AimingforYoko]

So how's this going to work (in Houston)? And why did Presti make this deal?

[xaxat]

Two ball dominant triple double machines on the same team.

This should be interesting.

[nittany cougar]

I am a Houston native and I love the Westbroom trade.    I really want Harden and Westbrook to have another shot at the playoffs together. 

I would have liked to see Westbrook make it happen in OKC, but the writing was on the wall once Paul George left.  It sucks for OKC fans to see their team being dismantled.  

Edited July 13, 2019 by nittanycougar

[Danny Franks]

So I can only assume we're going to be seeing Harden and Westbrook stealing the ball off one another to score, while the other three guys on the floor just stand around looking bemused.

Clearly, Houston had to get rid of Chris Paul, after he and Harden fell out, and with CP3's declining effectiveness. With the contract he had, their only choice was to take on a similarly bad contract.

The West has become a whole lot more competitive, this offseason - The Clippers building a real contender, the Lakers potentially better if they can fill the gaps around their stars, Utah bringing in Mike Conley,  the Warriors falling back as they retool, and now the Rockets probably getting worse because Westbrook isn't the compliment to Harden that Paul was.

[Maximum Taco]

17 hours ago, mojoween said:

The Rockets?!?  Where did THAT come from?

Kawhi broke the league's psyche. 

Now everyone in the West who thought they had a chance last year and was like "We'll just run it back!" is going insane. 

Ok Denver, you're next up for a move that no one sees coming.

16 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

So how's this going to work (in Houston)? And why did Presti make this deal?

Why wouldn't Presti make this deal?

He ditched one of the biggest albatross contracts in the league for a smaller one, and pocketed 2 1st rounders and 2 pick swaps. 

And now he's probably going to move CP3 to the Heat, since they struck out on Westbrook. 

Sam Presti has taken PG's trade request and somehow orchestrated a full rebuild in a single off season. He's got 15 1st rounders in the next 7 years, and a bunch of pick swaps too. I know he won't because it's usually reserved for a GM who creates a competitive team but he should probably win Exec of the Year based on this off season. MasterClass in rebuilding. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[Kip Hackman]

1 hour ago, Maximum Taco said:

MasterClass in rebuilding. 

We'll see.

How many of those 1st rounders is he gonna have to throw in to get someone to take on CP3's horrible contract?

[AimingforYoko]

5 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

And now he's probably going to move CP3 to the Heat, since they struck out on Westbrook. 

If he talks Pat Riley into taking on that contract, he deserves a Nobel Prize.

[catlover79]

The Shirtless, ahem, JR Smith Era in Cleveland has officially come to an end:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-waive-j-r-smith-clearing-the-way-for-veteran-to-become-unrestricted-free-agent-per-report/amp/

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, catlover79 said:

The Shirtless, ahem, JR Smith Era in Cleveland has officially come to an end:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-waive-j-r-smith-clearing-the-way-for-veteran-to-become-unrestricted-free-agent-per-report/amp/

Not surprising.  We did get one last look at JR when he came to bat in the celebrity softball game during All Star Week, shirtless of course.

[catlover79]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Not surprising.  We did get one last look at JR when he came to bat in the celebrity softball game during All Star Week, shirtless of course.

Yes. I especially like the picture of him with Jim Thome's son, Landon. It's also sad since he was one of the last remaining players from the 2016 championship team. Who's left? Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson and Delly? I think that's it. Thanks for the memories, JR.

[catlover79]

Here's a nice essay about JR's career as a Cav:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/cavs/2019/07/jr-smiths-legacy-with-cleveland-cavaliers-iscomplicated-chris-fedor.html%3foutputType=amp

[xaxat]

I really hope someone (Zach Lowe?) writes a history of this year's free agency. Two weeks that were totally crazy, player driven and transformed the landscape of the league more than any offseason I can remember. (In any sport.)

[isalicat]

Check out Ray Ratto's essay on the last two weeks of NBA free agency chaos/ecstasy on Deadspin.com for a great read (short and very funny).

[catlover79]

I made this meme when JR had a regrettable moment when his temper got the best of him...

[Sew Sumi]

9 hours ago, isalicat said:

Check out Ray Ratto's essay on the last two weeks of NBA free agency chaos/ecstasy on Deadspin.com for a great read (short and very funny).

I was wondering what happened to Ray. 

[Kip Hackman]

Unsurprising. Not much of a market for CP3 and his awful contract.

[Danny Franks]

I can see a benefit to having CP3 in OKC for a year, mentoring their young guys. Gilgeous-Alexander, Diallo and Ferguson could learn a lot from him.

They can't compete this year anyway, so they might as well eat a year of that contract while they retool.

[xaxat]

Hard to believe that Steve Balmer used to run one of the world's largest companies.

[mojoween]

Nuh-uh.  That was Matt Foley as I live and breathe.

[mojoween]

Oh.  My god.  Those infernal Taco Tuesday videos are going to be the death of me.  Does he KNOW how annoying they are?  Or does he go to bed on a mattress of money and not care what the plebes think?

[doodlebug]

50 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Oh.  My god.  Those infernal Taco Tuesday videos are going to be the death of me.  Does he KNOW how annoying they are?  Or does he go to bed on a mattress of money and not care what the plebes think?

Why do you watch them?  They seem fairly innocuous to me and easy to avoid if I didn't want to see them.

[mojoween]

Unfortunately, I don’t have a choice because they are plastered all over shows I watch on ESPN.  They give me no advance warning!

I feel that if you like him, they are harmless.  If you don’t, they are they work of satan.

[Jx223]

I saw posts fro reporters like Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter and other reporters that said that the Christmas lineup will consist of games like:

Clippers Vs. Lakers, New Orleans at Denver, Boston at Toronto, Milwaukee at Philly, and Rockets vs the Warriors in San Francisco.

[Magog]

The most likable & classiest player on those Warriors finally got his much deserved contract extension today. 4 yrs - $100 Million that will kick in after the 2019-2020 season. 

As for the Christmas Day Games, I'm very happy that the NBA finally woke up for a change & didn't have the Knicks play a Christmas Day Game. I didn't realized that out of 71 NBA seasons of having Christmas Day Games, the Knicks were played on Christmas 53 times (most out of all the teams). Hopefully, the NBA will keep the useless Knicks off the Christmas schedule for the foreseeable future. 

Clippers - Lakers -- I'm sure that ESPN will not only make sure that the Lakers are the home team in this game. But, they also win that game. Besides, I'm only rooting for LeBron & that is it. The rest of the Lakers (including Anthony Davis) can get lost & stay lost. Hopefully, the Clippers will put up a fight in this game & make it fun to watch. 

Bucks - 76ers -- Just like last yr, I'm rooting for the Greek Freak.

Rockets - those Warriors -- James Harden & those crummy Rockets will find a way to lose to those Warriors like they always do & adding Russell Westbrook to the Rockets will not change that. 

Celtics - Raptors -- Since Kyrie Irving is in Brooklyn now, there is no reason what so ever to even tolerate rooting for the Celtics. Plus, its about time the Raptors got a Christmas game at home. They deserved it & hopefully they won't fall off the map like some people are hoping for.

Pelicans - Nuggets -- This may actually be a fun game to watch. 

BTW, did anyone check out that Carmelo Anthony interview on ESPN yesterday? He was making excuses on why NBA teams have basically want nothing to do with him & how he still thinks that he can still be helpful to a championship contending team (Lakers). 

5 minutes ago, Magog said:

Edited August 3, 2019 by Magog

[Ohwell]

Draymond!

[AimingforYoko]

17 minutes ago, Magog said:

The most likable & classiest player on those Warriors finally got his much deserved contract extension today. 4 yrs - $100 Million that will kick in after the 2019-2020 season. 

I see what you did there.

Surprised he took the discount, but happiness has a price, too.

[Ohwell]

Now reportedly it's 5 years, $118 million.  

[xaxat]

Happy to see that most people think that Kobe being named third team all decade is a joke.

[topanga]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

Happy to see that most people think that Kobe being named third team all decade is a joke.

I don’t like Kobe as a person, but as a player, no way is he third team. 

[Fukui San]

Oooooh!!! I thought the controversy was that Kobe was listed at all since he played in less than half of the possible games in this decade, greatly diminished after his Achilles injury, and mediocre the last two seasons while the Lakers were terrible most of the decade.  My mistake! That was truly my thought process before now.

Third team was appropriate for Kobe, if a bit of a lifetime achievement award. I probably would have put Klay Thompson in his place, but if you want to sneak Kobe into the third team, fine.

[xaxat]

8 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Oooooh!!! I thought the controversy was that Kobe was listed at all since he played in less than half of the possible games in this decade, greatly diminished after his Achilles injury, and mediocre the last two seasons while the Lakers were terrible most of the decade.  My mistake! That was truly my thought process before now.

That's the way I intended it. I should have elaborated. 

[topanga]

On 8/8/2019 at 1:26 AM, Fukui San said:

Oooooh!!! I thought the controversy was that Kobe was listed at all since he played in less than half of the possible games in this decade, greatly diminished after his Achilles injury, and mediocre the last two seasons while the Lakers were terrible most of the decade.  My mistake! That was truly my thought process before now.

Third team was appropriate for Kobe, if a bit of a lifetime achievement award. I probably would have put Klay Thompson in his place, but if you want to sneak Kobe into the third team, fine.

I guess I didn’t realize how diminished his accomplishments have been since 2010. My mind automatically went to “All Time.”

But, the 2010s were also when he broke the Lakers’ records for points and steals, so there’s that. 

[Jx223]

The full schedule for NBA games this upcoming season is officially out:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27374044/nba-releases-schedule-kawhi-toronto-dec-11

[Magog]

DeMarcus Cousins (Lakers) tore his ACL again today & he might be done for the upcoming season. 

[AimingforYoko]

57 minutes ago, Magog said:

DeMarcus Cousins (Lakers) tore his ACL again today & he might be done for the upcoming season. 

He might be done period, poor guy.

I'll tell you the mindset of a Vikings fan, though. When I saw "Cousins suffers serious knee injury" come across the wire, I thought, "Of course."