Race & Ethnicity On TV

[ribboninthesky1]

 

I never watched Person of Interest, but this Sleepy Hollow stuff reminds me of Taraji P. Henson on that show.

 

 

Now, with Sleepy Hollow*, Nicole Beharie was the black, female lead of a genre show that managed to get 3 seasons (how often does that happen?), but yet she wanted out**. Something must have happened to make her feel that leaving was a better option than being the lead on a network show - a pretty good gig if you can get it. I mean it's not like she suddenly became a big movie star.(i.e.: Carrell, Heigl) Clearly she was undervalued by the producers and/or the network.

*(which I didn't watch, but followed news about it casually)

** I realize she could have been pushed out, too.

 

 

I've not kept up with the media since I saw that article on Nicole's departure Friday night, but when I first saw it on Twitter, there seemed to be quite a bit of "she wanted to leave" commentary.  Which, yes, was very reminiscent of Taraji's POI departure, with an implicit lack of acknowledgement of WHY someone would want to leave, especially a black woman who is supposed to be a lead.  Though, to me, neither Taraji or Nicole were THE leads - more like co-leads.  It's a fine distinction, but still important.  Guess time will tell if Nicole does a PR press tour.  

 

I suppose one difference is that I think POI was still popular when Taraji left, whereas Sleepy Hollow's ratings have been in steady decline, possibly on the cancellation bubble, even before Nicole's departure.        

[Ms Blue Jay]

Here's a Vulture article on the Sleepy Hollow stuff:  http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/sleepy-hollow-just-lost-any-faith-fans-had-left-in-it.html

 

According to The Cancel Bear, it is likely to be cancelled May 2016:  http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/03/29/fox-renewcancel-standings-week-27-bubble-watching-for-the-grinder-new-girl-and-others/

Edited April 11, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Wax Lion]

Thanks to the Vulture link. It explains how badly Beharie was treated which was ridiculous.

[JBC344]

Really unfortunate to hear about Nicole and how she may have been treated.  She really is a good actress, I hope she lands another great role.

 

On the flip side movie side Tessa Thompson has been cast as Chris Hemsworh's new love interest for the new Thor movie. 

[galax-arena]

So apparently Kira won't be returning for season 6 of Teen Wolf. Out of all the people Jeff Davis could have written off, he picked the one main regular WOC character. Good thing I haven't watched Teen Wolf since season 4 or I'd be really annoyed. 

 

 

Teen Wolf has been in the gutter for a while now, so a part of me is going, "Yes, #FreeArden!" But another part of me is going, "Jeff Davis would." 

Edited April 11, 2016 by galax-arena

[ribboninthesky1]

Wasn't it just last pilot season there seemed to be a flurry of shows with non-white leads and significantly non-white casts? Certainly feels like we've regressed, though it may not be as significant as I perceive it.  

Edited April 12, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[jhlipton]

Wasn't it just last pilot season there seemed to be a flurry of shows with non-white leads and significantly non-white casts? Certainly feels like we've regressed, though it may not be as significant as I perceive it.  

 

There have been a flurry of shows with black men, and with Women of Light Color.  That could skew your perception.

[C76]

Now, with Sleepy Hollow*, Nicole Beharie was the black, female lead of a genre show that managed to get 3 seasons (how often does that happen?), but yet she wanted out**. Something must have happened to make her feel that leaving was a better option than being the lead on a network show - a pretty good gig if you can get it. I mean it's not like she suddenly became a big movie star.(i.e.: Carrell, Heigl) Clearly she was undervalued by the producers and/or the network.

 

*(which I didn't watch, but followed news about it casually)

** I realize she could have been pushed out, too.

 

I think she was pushed. I don't know if blatant, repetitive bullying was involved, but I don't have a good impression of some of her coworkers. (No one in particular. But the fact that she wasn't invited to record DVD commentary left a bad taste in my mouth.) I sympathize with her. I've left a job because of a toxic work environment and I'd do it again if I had to.

 

I'm really upset about what's become of SH. Now that Nicole's gone, I can't shake the feeling that TPTB are going to do their damnedest to eliminate any trace of diversity that the show has left.

Edited April 12, 2016 by C76

[Sparger Springs]

Last night I watched Criminal minds. Rossi a white man had a child with a black woman. 30 years later daughter obvious biracial woman is married to an obvious biracial man. They have a son the complexion of Kevin Hart. It just bugged me. When they need a biracial or bi racial appearing kid they can't find one. Two people the color of Kevin Hart in a commercial have Zoe Kravitz color children. Why?

[ribboninthesky1]

If the child had been a daughter instead of a son, they probably would have cast a "visibly" mixed girl. 

 

There have been a flurry of shows with black men, and with Women of Light Color.  That could skew your perception.

 

I hadn't thought of it in this way, and perhaps that's the case. 

[jhlipton]

Last night I watched Criminal minds. Rossi a white man had a child with a black woman. 30 years later daughter obvious biracial woman is married to an obvious biracial man. They have a son the complexion of Kevin Hart. It just bugged me. When they need a biracial or bi racial appearing kid they can't find one. Two people the color of Kevin Hart in a commercial have Zoe Kravitz color children. Why?

 

Melanin is neither dominant nor recessive, as far as I can tell.  So the offspring of any two people can vary widely.  It's not likely that two people "the color of Kevin Hart" have one "Zoe Kravitiz colored" child, but the ods of two are more are astronomical, I think.

[Sparger Springs]

Melanin is neither dominant nor recessive, as far as I can tell.  So the offspring of any two people can vary widely.  It's not likely that two people "the color of Kevin Hart" have one "Zoe Kravitiz colored" child, but the ods of two are more are astronomical, I think.

Just no. Typically the complexion of a child is in the range of the parents. You can get one kid somewhat lighter or darker, true. Its really not that common. People always on the internet saying they look like Charlize Theron and their  biological sister on both sides is the complexion of  Fantasia.  

 Whenever someone says something like this, I think family secrets. 

 

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3775405056/tt5460408?ref_=ttmd_md_nxt thats a picture of the kid.  

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0828226/  picture of actress playing his daughter.

 

Couldn't find the name of the son in law. Picture Stephan Curry but lighter.

[DearEvette]

Ha!  Yeah that Criminal Minds thing kinda bugged me too.  I mean I thought for a second the husband was Italian.  And yes, Stephan Curry is a good example because he did look like him.  Really that child looked like he was actually the kid of Sheryl Lee Ralph instead or Amber Stevens (who normally plays Rossi's daughter) and the Stephan Curry look alike. 

 

Meanwhile on Grey's Anatomy I loved that the main couple in the midst of last night's tragic episode was an African American woman with an East Indian husband.  And the kids were cast very well.  The daughter looked like she was exactly that biracial mix.   And the mother was dark skinned with natural hair.  This is exactly the sort of diversity I love to see.  Not anywhere near the typical pairing you would see on tv.  Say what you will about Shonda she does the damn thing!

Edited April 15, 2016 by DearEvette

[Ohwell]

Meanwhile on Grey's Anatomy I loved that the main couple in the midst of last night's tragic episode was an African American woman with an East Indian husband.  And the kids were cast very well.  The daughter looked like she was exactly that biracial mix.   And the mother was dark skinned with natural hair.  This is exactly the sort of diversity I love to see.  Not anywhere near the typical pairing you would see on tv.  Say what you will about Shonda she does the damn thing!

I'm noticing that in commercials as well, with African American women and Asian men.  

[Sparger Springs]

Ha!  Yeah that Criminal Minds thing kinda bugged me too.  I mean I thought for a second the husband was Italian.  And yes, Stephan Curry is a good example because he did look like him.  Really that child looked like he was actually the kid of Sheryl Lee Ralph instead or Amber Stevens (who normally plays Rossi's daughter) and the Stephan Curry look alike. 

 

Meanwhile on Grey's Anatomy I loved that the main couple in the midst of last night's tragic episode was an African American woman with an East Indian husband.  And the kids were cast very well.  The daughter looked like she was exactly that biracial mix.   And the mother was dark skinned with natural hair.  This is exactly the sort of diversity I love to see.  Not anywhere near the typical pairing you would see on tv.  Say what you will about Shonda she does the damn thing!

The daughter in a previous episode said she married an Italian like her father. When I saw the kid, I thought they forgot or just decided to use an AA man as her husband. Then the husband came out looking like Stephan Curry and saying his dad was Italian. That kid must be related to someone on the staff of Criminal Minds.

[Raja]

Her character's name is Alex Parrish, why should she have an accent?  And what does "cultural markers" mean?

I was talking to a friend and it went beyond having to make her multi cultural like Kung Fu's Cain but compared to say Divya of Royal Pains being a culturally true but older, by American standards a virgin we are virtually introduced to Alex picking up a man in an airplane and having sex in the airport parking lot in a scene that would be considered porn if shown in India

[Neurochick]

I also added this to the Sleepy Hollow board, but it bears repeating here too:

 

http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2016/04/perpetually-surprised.html

 

I don't always agree with her, but I think her point is, can we really expect white show runners/producers, etc to showcase positive images of black women?  Maybe we need to learn to do for ourselves. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I also added this to the Sleepy Hollow board, but it bears repeating here too:

 

http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2016/04/perpetually-surprised.html

 

I don't always agree with her, but I think her point is, can we really expect white show runners/producers, etc to showcase positive images of black women?  Maybe we need to learn to do for ourselves. 

 

 

Well...there was Normal Lear. He's white, and I think he did a great job showcasing black women and men in positive images.  And as I mentioned in another thread, I loathe to admit it, what with what's happened to him in his personal life and what he's been revealed to be, The Cosby Show.

[topanga]

I also added this to the Sleepy Hollow board, but it bears repeating here too:

 

http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2016/04/perpetually-surprised.html

 

I don't always agree with her, but I think her point is, can we really expect white show runners/producers, etc to showcase positive images of black women?  Maybe we need to learn to do for ourselves. 

Historically, people of color haven't had much power on the executive side of Hollywood T.V. to influence the representation of men and women of color, let alone ensure that the images are positive. There have been some notable exceptions over the years, including Yvette Lee Bowser, Mara Brock Akil, Shonda Rhimes, Kenya Barris, Nahnatchka Khan, Mindy Kaling, Naren Shankar, and Maurissa Tancharoen, but this number pales in comparison to the sheer volume of television that's on the air these days. 

 

And while I agree that people of color can't rely on others to "tell our stories." Or more accurately, to tell universal stories that just happen include people of color (much like the real world). But these stories don't make it onto the air unless someone is greenlighting those projects. And who's greenlighting the projects? People with money and power, a group which overwhelmingly consists of white men.

 

So suck it, Matt Damon. (But Jason Bourne is still awesome).

[Neurochick]

 

 

Well...there was Normal Lear. He's white, and I think he did a great job showcasing black women and men in positive images.  And as I mentioned in another thread, I loathe to admit it, what with what's happened to him in his personal life and what he's been revealed to be, The Cosby Show.

 

That is true about Norman Lear, but he was only one person, and some could say that the images of black women weren't all that positive. 

[DearEvette]

I also added this to the Sleepy Hollow board, but it bears repeating here too:

 

http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2016/04/perpetually-surprised.html

 

I don't always agree with her, but I think her point is, can we really expect white show runners/producers, etc to showcase positive images of black women?  Maybe we need to learn to do for ourselves. 

 

Good God! That article.  Girl, I think you are being rather generous.  I read that article and my entire take-away is "I am laughing at you stupid dumb black wimmins because you tried."

 

The problem with the entire argument is that it relies on a "Why bother.  Don't even try.  it isn't going to change" attitude wrapped in some Hotep fake-woke consciousness.    It is so self-defeating that it leaves no room for aspiration.  And marginalized folks are nothing if not aspirational.

 

The thing is, the state of marginalized representation in popular media has been stagnant for so long is partly because of that attitude.  Every positive change that has come for marginalized folk has been because we all have decided that we are tired of whatever it was that was holding us back and agitated for that change, be it a riot or a march or a simple case of not moving from a seat or choosing not to buy a product.  Picking up your toys and going home in a flounce and saying "i old you so" does nothing to change your state.  The killing off of characters like Abbie & Lexa and the resultant outrage not just from fans by from critics as well may be the thing that moves the needle (or swings  the pendulum)  just a little bit closer to better representation the next time.

 

 

Historically, people of color haven't had much power on the executive side of Hollywood T.V. to influence the representation of men and women of color, let alone ensure that the images are positive. There have been some notable exceptions over the years, including Yvette Lee Bowser, Mara Brock Akil, Shonda Rhimes, Kenya Barris, Nahnatchka Khan, Mindy Kaling, Naren Shankar, and Maurissa Tancharoen, but this number pales in comparison to the sheer volume of television that's on the air these days.

 

I love that with the exception of Kenya Barris, you mention pretty much all women.  The fact of the matter is, if you look at producers, writers and creators of color it is women who are doing the most for other women.  Black men in film especially tend to tell stories of black men.  Black women are still just relegated to girlfriend roles.  And people like Tyler Perry who do tell women's stories have pretty rigid ideals of what is "good" when it comes to a black woman's character. 

 

Women are really the ones who are telling the most nuanced stories about other women, esp. WOC.  I remember when Oprah announced OWN, I was really hoping with her clout that she'd move to that sort of programming that told more women's stories and was more inclusive than Lifetime was at the time.  I was disappointed when it looked like it's just be a basic channel with more reality programming.  Now Oprah seems to have finally woke herself because I am looking forward to Queen Sugar and GreenLeaf.  They both look like great tv with pedigreed behind and in front of the camera talent.  I mean Ava Duvernay is doing Queen Sugar and the cast of Green Leaf is a veritable who's who of black emmy winners.  If they do well I hope she continues with more programming of this type.

Edited April 21, 2016 by DearEvette

[topanga]

I love that with the exception of Kenya Barris, you mention pretty much all women.  The fact of the matter is, if you look at producers, writers and creators of color it is women who are doing the most for other women.  Black men in film especially tend to tell stories of black men.  Black women are still just relegated to girlfriend roles.  And people like Tyler Perry who do tell women's stories have pretty rigid ideals of what is "good" when it comes to a black woman's character. 

 

Women are really the ones who are telling the most nuanced stories about other women, esp. WOC.  I remember when Oprah announced OWN, I was really hoping with her clout that she'd move to that sort of programming that told more women's stories and was more inclusive than Lifetime was at the time.  I was disappointed when it looked like it's just be a basic channel with more reality programming.  Now Oprah seems to have finally woke herself because I am looking forward to Queen Sugar and GreenLeaf.  They both look like great tv with pedigreed behind and in front of the camera talent.  I mean Ava Duvernay is doing Queen Sugar and the cast of Green Leaf is a veritable who's who of black emmy winners.  If they do well I hope she continues with more programming of this type.

I hadn't heard of either of those OWN projects. Thanks for the info, DearEvette. Dear Evette. (Sorry, couldn't help it). 

 

And speaking of Tyler Perry, one must not forget his important message to black women. If you're smart and ambitious, you'll get AIDS. At the very least, slapped by a black man. 

[Neurochick]

I don't think the article was "let's pick up our toys and go home."  More of, "fuck them, let's do our own thing."  I mean why should I support a program and networks that don't support me?  Other groups have learned that you need to do for self instead of begging others to include you.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Neurochick

[jhlipton]

 Say what you will about Shonda she does the damn thing!

 

I was more than a bit disappointed with the casting of The Catch, but I'm not sure how mucch say she had in that (and it's a crap show, not likely to last...)

 

And speaking of Tyler Perry, one must not forget his important message to black women. If you're smart and ambitious, you'll get AIDS. At the very least, slapped by a black man. 

 

If you're tempted by ambition, church will fix that!

I hate Tyler Perry so very much.

 

 

I don't think the article was "let's pick up our toys and go home."  More of, "fuck them, let's do our own thing."  I mean why should I support a program and networks that don't support me?  Other groups have learned that you need to do for self instead of begging others to include you.

 

I think you have to do both.  In the FaceBook group The State of Black Science Fiction., they do both: push mainstream media like the new Black Panther comic, and promote each others original works.  They will be having a convention ​June 11-12, 2016 at Southwest Arts Center, 915 New Hope Rd SW, Atlanta GA 30331

[LydiaMoon1]

Now Oprah seems to have finally woke herself because I am looking forward to Queen Sugar and GreenLeaf.

 

Well, maybe half-woke.  I admit all I've only seen one write-up for OWN'S Greenleaf so I may have gotten the wrong impression, but I'm disappointed to see that the main protagonist is a very light-skinned woman, while a darker-skinned actress seems to have been tapped to play the "angry black woman" role.  I have no interest in helping black people or anyone else perpetuate this light=good, dark=evil nonsense.

[jhlipton]

Well, maybe half-woke.

Maybe a quarter-woke...  Here's at least some of the cast of Queen Sugar:

 

Well, maybe half-woke.

Maybe a quarter-woke...  Here's at least some of the cast of Queen Sugar:

 

[Neurochick]

Colorism is interesting and tragic.  No one is saying that a light skinned actress can't play a love interest, but so many times on TV shows, they'll have a darker skinned woman playing the "angry black woman," where dark skinned men don't play those same characters.  I once asked a friend why did he think that happens so often, he said, "because dark skinned women ARE angry."  

 

But, I said, that's like saying "black people don't swim."  That's not true, but if you keep saying it, soon even black people will believe it.  

 

Images are important on TV because if they're shown over and over again people will begin to believe them.  I mentioned on the board for the show "Alone" that whenever there is some type of outdoors type show, they pick a black person that's the least outdoors-y.  I think that's done on purpose.  It keeps the stereotype going, "black people don't camp/swim/ski/hike."  And if you keep pushing that, some black people will believe that they can't do those things and not bother to try them.  

[DearEvette]

Rutina Wesley, a very dark skinned woman is the lead of Queen Sugar.  Because I power stalk her (i mean I even watched a few episodes of Hannibal for her which ... just ugh...) , that is how I even found out about Queen Sugar in the first place.  Also Tina Lifford, another dark skinned black woman plays her mother, is top billed with her.

 

So i would go with more like Half Woke.  And since Ava Duvernay is the director... I'll give O a little more props.

[ribboninthesky1]

But, I said, that's like saying "black people don't swim."  That's not true, but if you keep saying it, soon even black people will believe it.  

 

Images are important on TV because if they're shown over and over again people will begin to believe them.  I mentioned on the board for the show "Alone" that whenever there is some type of outdoors type show, they pick a black person that's the least outdoors-y.  I think that's done on purpose.  It keeps the stereotype going, "black people don't camp/swim/ski/hike."  And if you keep pushing that, some black people will believe that they can't do those things and not bother to try them.  

 

This reminds me of an episode from Oprah's talk show. There was a black park ranger (Yellowstone? Yosemite?) who talked about how he rarely saw black people visiting the park.  What I found ironic was a voiceover scene showing...black people walking in the park.  I certainly can't dispute what he says if that's his experience.  But the framing of it bothered me due to the implication, to me at least, that it was some kind of collective flaw (blacks can't appreciate nature or some such foolishness), rather than lack of exposure, accessibility, or opportunity.  Most of the US National Parks are in western states where there's not a significant black population anyway.    

 

I also think that the narrative carried by entertainment/media (and thus widely accepted) for the last 40 or years is that of inner city blacks.  That subset has never, and still doesn't, make up the largest population of blacks in the United States.  I suspect that's why myths such as "blacks don't swim" (I recall this coming up during a season of The Amazing Race) or "blacks don't hike" were popularized.  My Georgia-born, country self never heard these myths until the late 90s or so, when I went to college in Atlanta.    

[Neurochick]

I also think that the narrative carried by entertainment/media (and thus widely accepted) for the last 40 or years is that of inner city blacks.  That subset has never, and still doesn't, make up the largest population of blacks in the United States.  I suspect that's why myths such as "blacks don't swim" (I recall this coming up during a season of The Amazing Race) or "blacks don't hike" were popularized.  My Georgia-born, country self never heard these myths until the late 90s or so, when I went to college in Atlanta.

 

 

It's not that the narrative is about the "inner city" it's that the narrative is incorrect.  I live in what is or what was the "inner city."  I live near an indoor pool facility that has been there since the 1930's.  (in fact many TV shows like Person of Interest and Gotham film their shows there because of the sky light) There are junior and senior swim teams, all black people.  When I was a teenager (in the 1970's) I remember so many young black guys taking the test to be lifeguards in city pools and beaches; they wanted those jobs because they paid well and they could meet girls; and if you become junior lifeguard, you have to know how to swim.  If I go to the pool tomorrow, I'll see a group of them practicing for the exam.  

[C76]

Here's a piece on Sleepy Hollow and other shows:

 

http://thoughtcatalog.com/tasha-williams/2016/04/how-sci-fi-and-fantasy-television-shows-fail-black-female-characters/

 

I haven't finished reading it yet, but I know it's relevant to this thread. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by C76

[topanga]

Here's a piece on Sleepy Hollow and other shows:

 

http://thoughtcatalog.com/tasha-williams/2016/04/how-sci-fi-and-fantasy-television-shows-fail-black-female-characters/

 

I haven't finished reading it yet, but I know it's relevant to this thread.  

It's probably a great article, but after experiencing all 5 Stages of Sleepy Hollow Grief, I've finally reached acceptance. I can't read or watch another thing about the show, lest I'm thrown back into anger or depression. But I'll still follow Nicole Beharie's career (and Tom Mison's). 

[ribboninthesky1]

A few years back, when Person of Interest was just starting up, then Scandal hit the scene, followed by the Sleepy Hollow announcement, I was excited by black women being cast as leads/co-leads in standard TV drama and sci-fi/fantasy.  Around 2013-2014, I pivoted and decided to take a "wait-and-see" approach with any new show/casting news.  And by "wait and see," I mean watching several episodes, if not a season, to see how the character and actress are regarded on the show.  

 

I wish there was more indie TV stuff out there, but I try to keep my eyes and ears open.  I'm not in the industry, so once I started to understand what it takes to produce a TV show, I became a lot more understanding of why black and other non-white creatives struggle outside of the mainstream.  Having access to resources and connections to get your productions on the air is no small feat.  Bless those who keep at it, especially black women - I can't imagine the headwinds they face.   

Edited April 25, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[Ohwell]

One of my favorite shows is Z-Nation because Kelitta Smith is in the lead.

[topanga]

On 4/25/2016 at 7:04 PM, Ohwell said:

One of my favorite shows is Z-Nation because Kelitta Smith is in the lead.

Wanda! Wanda!!!! (Bernie Mac voice). I'll have to check that one out. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Wanda! Wanda!!!! (Bernie Mac voice). I'll have to check that one out. 

She plays a kick-ass character, Roberta Warren, who served in the National Guard.  Unlike The Walking Dead, Z-Nation has some serious moments but it's basically a fun zombie show.

[jhlipton]

On 4/25/2016 at 4:04 PM, Ohwell said:

One of my favorite shows is Z-Nation because Kelitta Smith is in the lead.

I love Z Nation, and Kelitta/Roberta is a huge part of that.  Two of the very few black women in SF&F are both on zombie shows!

[xaxat]

I don't believe in ghosts, but I might have to check this out.

Meet the ‘Ghost Brothers,’ TV’s first black paranormal investigators

Quote

When we talk about diversity, we don’t usually talk about ghost-hunting TV shows. That said, these programs are overwhelmingly white, not just in terms of the paranormal investigators themselves, but also the specific dead people they seek to contact: the lighthouse keeper who may have never left his post, say, or the grandmother who passed away in this very rocking chair. . . 

“I’ve always just been a huge fan of the genre, so I used to watch all the ghost adventure shows, paranormal investigation shows, horror movies. And I was watching TV one day and I was just like, ‘I don’t see a representation of me or anyone like me on any of these shows,” Dalen said. “Why is that, when everyone has the same questions about the afterlife? It crosses color lines. Everybody dies!”

Reminds me of this,

[Neurochick]

An interesting point about black women in fandom.

[Ohwell]

Whew!  Too much anger going on in that article and too many embedded links.  Sometimes we all need to just settle down and have a drink. 

[Rlb8031]

Word! It's TV, it's not that deep...

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

An interesting point about black women in fandom.

I get what the author is trying to say, but I don't think things are quite as insidious as she suggests. Plus there's a bit of name-calling and victim-blaming that I don't think helps her cause.

[galax-arena]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Word! It's TV, it's not that deep...

I haven't read the article, but pop culture and the media don't exist in a vacuum. It's easy to dismiss something as ~just television, but what we see on screen does influence the way we perceive the world. Even if you don't think it does, because you're too smart to be taken in, it still influences you unless you live under a rock with no media outlet. And it's even been shown that the more television you watch as a child, the more your self-esteem goes down... unless you're a white boy. Are we going to say that this is because white boys just have a strength of character that the rest of us don't? 

[Ohwell]

Then have more influence over what your child watches on television.  Nobody is making the children watch this crap.  Have them read more.  Accept some personal responsibility and stop placing blame on others, especially people who you know don't really care about you in the first place.  

[galax-arena]

Quote

Have them read more.

Yes, because this problem doesn't exist in literature... 

Television was just one example. And arguing over responsibility is besides the point (and can be a bit implicitly classist in ignoring the fact many parents who rely on television as a babysitter often have fewer resources; my family was poor when I was little, and my parents were a bit too busy toiling away as non-English-speaking immigrants to police my brother and my television viewing habits). I was simply pointing out how disingenuous it is to act like television exists in a vacuum with no real world implications. You think it's a coincidence how black people are often dehumanized on television with how we dehumanize black people outside of television? 

Does Hollywood have the right to make whatever sort of television show they want? Sure. They can whitewash everyone except straight white men right out existence on the big screen if that's their heart's desire. But the rest of us can criticize them for it. And it also comes across as disingenuous for Hollywood to try to disavow any sort of responsibility for pop culture influencing society by castigating parents when the rest of the time they're up their own ass about how meaningful their artpop is. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by galax-arena

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Then have more influence over what your child watches on television.  Nobody is making the children watch this crap.  Have them read more.  Accept some personal responsibility and stop placing blame on others, especially people who you know don't really care about you in the first place.  

I think that's very simplistic.  What about a single parent who has to work more than one job to make ends meet?  You can't be up on your child 24/7.  Things were different when I was growing up, there were only 3 major networks and TV wasn't 24/7.

Hollywood has the right to make whatever racist shit it wants; they can erase black women whatever; but people have the right to criticize them and say they won't watch their bullshit, people have the right to say what was said in that article, yes it was long, but some of those things stated were things that I have noticed for a few years, i.e. less brown skinned black women seen as love interests on TV shows.  Two shows that I noticed, push non black women onto the black male characters, Rosewood, where it looks like the OTP is between he and a woman who isn't black, and Empire, though I have a feeling Laura won't be long for the show.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Neurochick

[CoderLady]

8 hours ago, Neurochick said:

An interesting point about black women in fandom.

I felt that. So glad to read an article where the author just decided "Fuck it" and said what she thought. Even though I didn't agree with everything she said, I agree with the tone and her frustration with the crap quality of what little is offered black women and how we've just had to roll with it, because it just isn't getting any better anytime soon.

[Sparger Springs]

I just saw the trailer for Unreal. The fake bachelor show on Lifetime. The bachelor is black this season. I hope I'm wrong but somehow black women will be made out to be racist psychos and the bachelor will wind up with a white or Asian woman.

[Neurochick]

39 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

I just saw the trailer for Unreal. The fake bachelor show on Lifetime. The bachelor is black this season. I hope I'm wrong but somehow black women will be made out to be racist psychos and the bachelor will wind up with a white or Asian woman.

The way television is today, that would not surprise me. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Neurochick

[xaxat]

I like UnReal because it's not just a parody of the dating genre. It's smart commentary on the gender and race issues that accompany those shows.

In the first season, there were two African American and a Hispanic candidate. Each of them was very self aware of how their race would play into the decisions of the bachelor and the producers of the show. The only "stereotype" was the black woman who chose to emphasize those aspects in a cynical, but rational, effort to get more airtime (knowing that she wouldn't win). 

If the second season is as smart as the first, there may be stereotypes, but they will be three dimensional and not caricatures.