Race & Ethnicity On TV

[biakbiak]

22 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

didn't realize that there were two live versions in the works (and I think one of the articles I saw said that Auli’i is replac

One is a live tv performance a la Grease, Rent, Jesus Christ Superstar that have become popular in the last few seasons, that they just announced existed and the other is the live action movie they have been working on awhile.

Edited August 6, 2019 by biakbiak

[Trini]

At least the TV version will have a Black Ursula. I know Queen Latifah was a popular fancast for the movie role.

[Silver Raven]

On 7/14/2019 at 10:03 AM, Neurochick said:

What idiots decide to uproot their kids like that, and for what?  I used to have a co worker who would periodically get very lucrative job offers in other states, she would turn them all down because she didn’t want to uproot her son, who was in high school.

My father worked for several banks in Northern California in my childhood, which required him to transfer from town to town.  I went to kindergarten in one town, first grade in another town, second and half of third in another town, the rest of third in another town, fourth, fifth and half of sixth in another town, sixth, seventh, and half of eighth in another town, the rest of eighth and all of high school in yet again another town.

[Irlandesa]

I'm sure this will sadden few, if any, in this thread but Confederate is no longer moving forward at HBO.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/08/confederate-not-moving-forward-at-hbo.html

[Anduin]

5 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm sure this will sadden few, if any, in this thread but Confederate is no longer moving forward at HBO.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/08/confederate-not-moving-forward-at-hbo.html

I wonder if HBO shopped it around to other producers, to see if anyone was interested. If so, I can't imagine anyone wanted to touch it.

[ursula]

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm sure this will sadden few, if any, in this thread but Confederate is no longer moving forward at HBO.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/08/confederate-not-moving-forward-at-hbo.html

14 hours ago, Anduin said:

I wonder if HBO shopped it around to other producers, to see if anyone was interested. If so, I can't imagine anyone wanted to touch it.

Don't celebrate too soon. Now that D & D have signed on at Netflix, there's a chance that it'll happen there.

[jhlipton]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm sure this will sadden few, if any, in this thread but Confederate is no longer moving forward at HBO.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/08/confederate-not-moving-forward-at-hbo.html

No tears here!

[DearEvette]

The Amazon tv adaptation of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series has announced their main cast.  The cast is surprisingly multicultural given the source material.  I liked the first seven books of the series but couldn't finish because the wait between books became prohibitive and then Robert Jordan died before finishing it.  Brandon Sanderson (an excellent fantasy writer, btw) had to come in and finish the last two books.  The written series is a whopping 12 books in total.

Here's a pic of the actors who play the main five cast members. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by DearEvette

[jhlipton]

13 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

The Amazon tv adaptation of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series has announced their main cast.  The cast is surprisingly multicultural given the source material. 

Here's a pic of the actors who play the main five cast members. 

Zoe Robinson is of Nigerian descent, according to one site, but she looks fairly light to me.  No surprise that she's considerably lighter than Marcus Rutherford.  

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

The Amazon tv adaptation of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series has announced their main cast.  The cast is surprisingly multicultural given the source material.  I liked the first seven books of the series but couldn't finish because the wait between books became prohibitive and then Robert Jordan died before finishing it.  Brandon Sanderson (an excellent fantasy writer, btw) had to come in and finish the last two books.  The written series is a whopping 12 books in total.

Here's a pic of the actors who play the main five cast members. 

Madeleine Madden, on the left, is Australian Aboriginal. I'm just happy to see an Aussie in the mix. I just hope that acting-wise, she's more Chris Hemsworth than Sam Worthington.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Anduin

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The Amazon tv adaptation of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series has announced their main cast.  The cast is surprisingly multicultural given the source material.  I liked the first seven books of the series but couldn't finish because the wait between books became prohibitive and then Robert Jordan died before finishing it.  Brandon Sanderson (an excellent fantasy writer, btw) had to come in and finish the last two books.  The written series is a whopping 12 books in total.

Here's a pic of the actors who play the main five cast members. 

And, sadly predictably, a lot of people online are in a rage over it. Because they simply can't handle actors of colour being cast in roles they pictured differently.

Never mind that Jordan includes plenty of references to the people of the Two Rivers (where all five of these characters come from) being fairly dark in complexion. Granted, Jordan probably pictured them as Mediterranean in colouring, but he was deliberately vague, about them and about a lot of other characters and cultures. Rand is the one who stands out - paler and taller, with red hair - because his mother wasn't from the Two Rivers.

I like these casting choices, based on their headshots. They all have the right faces for the roles they'll be playing.

Barney Harris, on the far right, who has been cast as Mat Cauthon, may be Jewish (one of the Google results for him is the website ukjewishfilm.org), which probably won't go down well with the same people who don't like "race switching".

Also, the series is actually fourteen books and a prequel novella. ;o)

Edited August 15, 2019 by Danny Franks

[DearEvette]

10 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Never mind that Jordan includes plenty of references to the people of the Two Rivers (where all five of these characters come from) being fairly dark in complexion. Granted, Jordan probably pictured them as Mediterranean in colouring, but he was deliberately vague, about them and about a lot of other characters and cultures. Rand is the one who stands out - paler and taller, with red hair - because his mother wasn't from the Two Rivers.

Right.  I think they did a good job with the cast at least physically.  Rand is the one whose appearance is such a contrast to the rest of the two Rivers people.

Before I read who was who, I guessed almost all correctly, I had switched the Nynaeve and Egwene actresses only because the actress who plays Egwene looks older in her headshot.  Also I think the guy they got to play Perrin really feels like that is what Perrin would look like.

Also, Rosamund Pike is playing Moraine and I think that is good casting too.  I wonder who will be Lan?  I really liked that character in the book.

And Finally, I read that Brandon Sanderson had been a consultant on the show and he has stated that they are cutting a LOT and said some fans will be furious but to take the adaptation on its own merits.  I mean, there is no way this is workable without a lot of cuts. 

I admit it is making me want to revisit the books now.

[Danny Franks]

20 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Right.  I think they did a good job with the cast at least physically.  Rand is the one whose appearance is such a contrast to the rest of the two Rivers people.

Before I read who was who, I guessed almost all correctly, I had switched the Nynaeve and Egwene actresses only because the actress who plays Egwene looks older in her headshot.  Also I think the guy they got to play Perrin really feels like that is what Perrin would look like.

Also, Rosamund Pike is playing Moraine and I think that is good casting too.  I wonder who will be Lan?  I really liked that character in the book.

And Finally, I read that Brandon Sanderson had been a consultant on the show and he has stated that they are cutting a LOT and said some fans will be furious but to take the adaptation on its own merits.  I mean, there is no way this is workable without a lot of cuts. 

I admit it is making me want to revisit the books now.

I think the actress playing Egwene just has that stubborn look to her, which is something the character absolutely must have.

As for who they'll cast for Lan, a few years ago I'd have loved Ken Watanabe, but he's too old now. I really can't think of a likely candidate who ticks all the boxes, but I think it will someone with a public profile closer to Rosamund Pike than to these unknown actors.

I'm bracing myself for savage cuts to the adaptation, and telling myself I'll be okay with them (as long as they do Aviendha justice, because she's my absolute favourite). But I really don't know if I will. Not because I'll be annoyed at not seeing certain things myself, but I think I'll just be frustrated that people who are watching the show but haven't read the books will be missing out.

[jhlipton]

On 8/14/2019 at 8:15 PM, Danny Franks said:

And, sadly predictably, a lot of people online are in a rage over it. Because they simply can't handle actors of colour being cast in roles they pictured differently.

The cast is dark enough to tick the "diversity" boxes, and to make the Stupid Puppies [*} sad (which is a good thing) without scaring off the audience with a Black man (gasp!) or, "worse", a Black woman (the HORROR!!!). 

I watched a bit last night while getting dinner (so without sound) and what I saw didn't grab me so I doubt I'll make time for this.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

The cast is dark enough to tick the "diversity" boxes, and to make the Stupid Puppies [*} sad (which is a good thing) without scaring off the audience with a Black man (gasp!) or, "worse", a Black woman (the HORROR!!!). 

I watched a bit last night while getting dinner (so without sound) and what I saw didn't grab me so I doubt I'll make time for this.

There will be black characters who feature later in the series (which hasn't been made yet, so I'm not sure what you watched a bit of). Some in quite major roles. There will also be Asian characters, and possibly Middle Eastern ones too. The Wheel of Time is a lot more diverse than a lot of epic fantasy.

[ursula]

14 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

16 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I watched a bit last night while getting dinner (so without sound) 

which hasn't been made yet, so I'm not sure what you watched a bit of)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[selkie]

On 8/14/2019 at 10:45 PM, DearEvette said:

And Finally, I read that Brandon Sanderson had been a consultant on the show and he has stated that they are cutting a LOT and said some fans will be furious but to take the adaptation on its own merits.  I mean, there is no way this is workable without a lot of cuts. 

I admit it is making me want to revisit the books now.

Honestly, I know I'm not the only person who felt like Robert Jordan lost anything resembling control over his cast of literal thousands somewhere around book 7 or 8 and will regard it as a Good Thing if they cut and consolidate a lot from those middle books before Sanderson sadly ( for those unfamiliar with the books, he was the one who was contracted to finish the series after original author Robert Jorden passed away) had to wrestle a whole bunch of overly rambling plotlines back into place to get the end of the series to work. 

[jhlipton]

On 8/16/2019 at 11:18 AM, Danny Franks said:

There will be black characters who feature later in the series (which hasn't been made yet, so I'm not sure what you watched a bit of). Some in quite major roles. There will also be Asian characters, and possibly Middle Eastern ones too. The Wheel of Time is a lot more diverse than a lot of epic fantasy.

Thanks for the info -- that's put it back on my radar.

As to what I watched, it looked like tWoT -- one scene was a woman preparing to leave a castle with a guy who looked like Marcus Rutherford, with both on horseback.  
*** But I realize now that what I saw was on network TV, and tWOT will be on Amazon, sometime in 2020.  Now I wonder what the heck I saw!!!!

[selkie]

53 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Thanks for the info -- that's put it back on my radar.

As to what I watched, it looked like tWoT -- one scene was a woman preparing to leave a castle with a guy who looked like Marcus Rutherford, with both on horseback.  
*** But I realize now that what I saw was on network TV, and tWOT will be on Amazon, sometime in 2020.  Now I wonder what the heck I saw!!!!

Amazon is not the first media group to make an attempt at a WoT adaptation. A previous holder of the tv/movie rights actually made a (by all accounts really horrible) pilot for the show in order to trigger a clause that would extend the time frame of the original rights and it apparently aired briefly on overnight cable tv 

https://www.wired.com/2015/02/wheel-of-time-tv-pilot/

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-real-story-about-that-wheel-of-time-pilot-that-aire-1684773094

[Silver Raven]

Priyanka Chopra and Robert Rodriguez teaming up to make superhero movie We Can Be Heroes.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/priyanka-chopra-star-netflixs-we-can-be-heroes-1233577

[jhlipton]

18 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Priyanka Chopra and Robert Rodriguez teaming up to make superhero movie We Can Be Heroes.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/priyanka-chopra-star-netflixs-we-can-be-heroes-1233577

I wouldn't be surprised if Chopra is dropped due to her comments about Kashmir -- she tweeted in favor of the Indian Army, at a time when tensions are high.  Not a good caqll for a UN Goodwill Ambassador.

But this looks amazingly diverse.  Very cool.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Chopra is dropped due to her comments about Kashmir -- she tweeted in favor of the Indian Army, at a time when tensions are high.  Not a good caqll for a UN Goodwill Ambassador.

But this looks amazingly diverse.  Very cool.

I doubt she will drop out it’s got very little attention in the US. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Chopra is dropped due to her comments about Kashmir -- she tweeted in favor of the Indian Army, at a time when tensions are high.  Not a good caqll for a UN Goodwill Ambassador.

But this looks amazingly diverse.  Very cool.

11 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I doubt she will drop out it’s got very little attention in the US. 

Pakistan and India, as long as they don't use their nukes, or President Trump doesn't tweet for one side neither  the general American public or press corps would care.

[DearEvette]

Netflix is committed to kid superhero shows sounds like.  They are also releasing Raising Dion. A Story about a woman raising her superhero son.  Stars Michael B Jordan, Alisha Wainwright and Jason Ritter. 

Here is a short made in 2015 to promote the comic book ofthe same name (not the  Netflix cast, obvs).

Edited August 23, 2019 by DearEvette

[jhlipton]

In other news, Monica Owusu-Breen is "planning" a "reboot" of (more of a sequel to) Buffy the Vampire Slayer (it will more likely be called [Some name] the Vampire Slayer).  The usual suspects are upset because the new Slayer will be African-American -- apparently, they've already forgotten the First Slayer!

[biakbiak]

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

In other news, Monica Owusu-Breen is "planning" a "reboot" of (more of a sequel to) Buffy the Vampire Slayer (it will more likely be called [Some name] the Vampire Slayer).  The usual suspects are upset because the new Slayer will be African-American -- apparently, they've already forgotten the First Slayer!

Of all the failed reboot/remakes of Buffy that have been attempted over the years this is by far the most promising.

[paulvdb]

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The usual suspects are upset because the new Slayer will be African-American -- apparently, they've already forgotten the First Slayer!

And the first slayer wasn't the only non-white slayer we've seen. Remember Kendra? And in flashbacks we also saw Spike kill a Chinese slayer and a black slayer. And I don't remember all the potentials, but they were probably not all white.

[jenrising]

1 hour ago, paulvdb said:

And the first slayer wasn't the only non-white slayer we've seen. Remember Kendra? And in flashbacks we also saw Spike kill a Chinese slayer and a black slayer. And I don't remember all the potentials, but they were probably not all white.

Right, there were at least three prominently featured black slayers during the run of the series. The first slayer, Robin Wood's mother who Spike killed, and Kendra. One of the original group of potentials was black as well, Rhona (something like that). 

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, jenrising said:

Right, there were at least three prominently featured black slayers during the run of the series. The first slayer, Robin Wood's mother who Spike killed, and Kendra. One of the original group of potentials was black as well, Rhona (something like that). 

The Potential you're thinking of is Rona.  Good memory!!!

Edited August 23, 2019 by jhlipton

[jenrising]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The Potential you're thinking of is Rona.  Good memory!!!

This is why I can never remember where I left my keys - my brain is full of useless info like the names of potential slayers. 

[Danny Franks]

If they do a Buffy reboot with an African-American slayer, then I demand that her nemesis be Dr. Acula.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Danny Franks

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, jenrising said:

This is why I can never remember where I left my keys - my brain is full of useless info like the names of potential slayers. 

I like to say that I am a fountain of useless information.

[In2You]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:10 PM, biakbiak said:

One is a live tv performance a la Grease, Rent, Jesus Christ Superstar that have become popular in the last few seasons, that they just announced existed and the other is the live action movie they have been working on awhile.

Actually they've been trying to do the tv musical version of The Little Mermaid for a few years. It kept getting pushed back.

[DearEvette]

I have been really enjoying Four Weddings and A Funeral on Hulu.  Even though it shares the conceit (events around weddings and a funeral) as the same-name movie, it has more in common, imo,  with another Brit rom-Com: Love, Actually. 

The two main characters are black and SE Asian.  But they are 'main' only in the sense that you get that the story needs a couple to pull more focus.  But in fact this features a strong ensemble with quite a few other characters who have their own side stories and romances.  Really good Desi rep.  Some super strong seemingly 'minor' characters who steal scenes.  Also there is an interesting up-and-ocming 'Huh, didn't see that coming' LGBTQ romance that crosses race, class and age lines (a May-December romance).

The pilot is a little self-aware, and, imo, is the weakest ep of the series so far, but as the season moves on the show just gets better and better and it is also quite funny.

[jhlipton]

On 8/26/2019 at 9:59 AM, DearEvette said:

I have been really enjoying Four Weddings and A Funeral on Hulu.  Even though it shares the conceit (events around weddings and a funeral) as the same-name movie, it has more in common, imo,  with another Brit rom-Com: Love, Actually. 

The two main characters are black and SE Asian.  ...  Really good Desi rep.   Also there is an interesting up-and-ocming 'Huh, didn't see that coming' LGBTQ romance that crosses race, class and age lines (a May-December romance).

The two main characters you refer to are "Halle Berry Black" and SE Asian.  (Oddly enough, both the Black men -- one main, one recurring -- are "Denzel Washington Black".  Funny how that works, isn't it?)  I like the show enough to keep going, but I have to call out colorism where I see it.

Moreover, I associate "Desi" with Indian, and Kash has been pretty emphatic that he's Pakistani, not Indian.  (It looks like there may be a "Bollywood" scene coming up, which, yuck.  That would not fit any of the characters!

I only finished Episode 3, so I'll try to stay unspoiled for any romance twists.

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

associate "Desi" with Indian, and Kash has been pretty emphatic that he's Pakistani, not Indian.  (It looks like there may be a "Bollywood" scene coming up, which, yuck.  That would not fit any of the characters!

Desi includes people from Pakistan and Bangladesh.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Desi includes people from Pakistan and Bangladesh.

That's why I was careful to add "I associate it"!  

[DearEvette]

Colorism is a very real issue in Hollywood and in casting.  And should be called out often as an issue as it both tries to be inclusive and yet also participates in erasure.

That said, I would never attempt to assign a degree of blackness of any individual person based on their skin tone.  Race is more complex than your complexion.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I would never attempt to assign a degree of blackness of any individual person based on their skin tone.  Race is more complex than your complexion.

True (although "blackness" kind of is defined by skin tone).  Complicated by the fact that race is a social structure, and doesn't exist in any scientific way.  That said, Nathalie Emmanuel is not "black" by any definition I would use: she's half English and half Caribbean (Dominican and Saint Lucian).  She is more Latina (many of whom have African roots) than black.

[jenrising]

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

True (although "blackness" kind of is defined by skin tone).  Complicated by the fact that race is a social structure, and doesn't exist in any scientific way.  That said, Nathalie Emmanuel is not "black" by any definition I would use: she's half English and half Caribbean (Dominican and Saint Lucian).  She is more Latina (many of whom have African roots) than black.

Just so you know, you don't get to define someone else's race. Nathalie has talked repeatedly about her white and black heritage. Caribbean is not a race and being Latina (I have never heard her refer to herself as this) does not preclude being black. She's talked about how her natural hair is connected her her black heritage. 

Also, in reference to someone wanting her to play Disney Princess Tiana, she said "“Nah, that part has to go to an even more melanated sister” so she's Black AF.

[SimoneS]

21 hours ago, jhlipton said:

True (although "blackness" kind of is defined by skin tone).  Complicated by the fact that race is a social structure, and doesn't exist in any scientific way.  That said, Nathalie Emmanuel is not "black" by any definition I would use: she's half English and half Caribbean (Dominican and Saint Lucian).  She is more Latina (many of whom have African roots) than black.

You are not the arbitrator of someone else's ethnic identity only your own. Nathalie has self-identified her ethnicity. And British and American societies wouldn't agree with your statement that she isn't Black given her phenotypic characteristics. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by SimoneS

[jhlipton]

On 8/29/2019 at 5:48 AM, jenrising said:

Just so you know, you don't get to define someone else's race.

On 8/29/2019 at 9:14 AM, SimoneS said:

You are not the arbitrator of someone else's ethnic identity only your own.

Quite true.  I disagree with other parts of your posts, but I'm not the one to argue them (I need to "stay in my lane"!).  So, let's leave it at that.

[SimoneS]

I wiIl add something else. This belief that people's ethnicity should match a stereotype of certain phenotypic characteristics is too pervasive in and outside of Hollywood and really should be confronted and called out when it occurs.  I have been criticizing Taylor Sheridan for the doing this on the Yellowstone thread, casting an actress who is not Native American as Native American in the movie, Wind River and now in Yellowstone because she "looks" Native American to him, especially when there are more talented and just as beautiful Native American actresses who could be cast in those roles.

Edited August 31, 2019 by SimoneS

[Lugal]

48 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

This belief that people's ethnicity should match a stereotype of certain phenotypic characteristics is too pervasive in and outside of Hollywood and really should be confronted and called out when it occurs.

I would agree, I think of an Indian friend of mine with sandy blonde hair and blue eyes.  But he has a census number so he's an official member of the Creek Nation.

I also knew two women (who ironically had the same birthday) that looked like they could be sisters.  They had the look, long black hair, dark eyes, so on.  One is Indian (Cherokee and Creek) and Irish while the other one is the more typical American mix (English, German, etc.)

49 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have been criticizing Taylor Sheridan for the doing this on the Yellowstone thread, casting an actress who is not Native American as Native American in the movie, Wind River and now in Yellowstone because she "looks" Native American to him

I haven't watched Yellowstone, but I assume you're talking about Kelsey Chow.  I haven't seen her in much, but I saw she was cast as an Egyptian on the never-made Hieroglyph.  It feels like Hollywood has that category of the vast In Between White and Black: Non-Black Person-of-Color.  For example, all the different ethnicities Erick Avari has played.

[Anduin]

13 minutes ago, Lugal said:

 For example, all the different ethnicities Erick Avari has played.

I just checked his IMBD. Hey, turns out he's Indian! I'm more used to seeing him as Arabic.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I haven't watched Yellowstone, but I assume you're talking about Kelsey Chow. 

Now that she's "graduated" to playing Native Americans, she's dropped her Chinese last name and is going by her culturally ambiguous middle name, Asbille.

[Ohwell]

Maybe she's got dirt on Taylor Sheridan?  Because for the life of me, I don't understand why she's been cast as Native American in two of his projects.  

[Danny Franks]

The Wheel of Time gets more diverse, with the casting of Korean-American actor, Daniel Henney as Lan. That's four of the seven main characters (at the beginning of the series) cast as non-white actors.

Henney certainly looks the part to me. He just needs to cultivate some stubble and either grow his hair or get a good wig.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Danny Franks

[DearEvette]

11 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

The Wheel of Time gets more diverse, with the casting of Korean-American actor, Daniel Henney as Lan. That's four of the seven main characters (at the beginning of the series) cast as non-white actors.

Henney certainly looks the part to me. He just needs to cultivate some stubble and either grow his hair or get a good wig.

Yeah, I saw that.  I think this is great.  Also I suspect he is going to get some serious stubble/wiggage!

[Silver Raven]

Dakota Fanning to play a white Ethiopian Muslim in Sweetness in the Belly.

https://shadowandact.com/dakota-fanning-is-a-white-ethiopian-muslim-refugee-in-the-upcoming-romance-drama-film-sweetness-in-the-belly?