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Meredith Quill

By Meredith Quill
in The Magicians [V]

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ProudMary
ProudMary

The Best and Worst Television Moments of 2018 as chosen by io9 at Gizmodo.  I could not agree more with one of their choices, which was, to me, the best hour of episodic television on my screen this y

ProudMary
ProudMary

This S4 promo is fabulous.

kieyra
kieyra

This is a strange way of framing it, since BTVS was never really put in that situation. (Buffy didn't stay dead, of course.) Most people's objections (that I have seen) are not about whether one

Guest

Guest

On 1/22/2019 at 2:27 PM, WInterfalls said:

Good news ahead of the new season!!!

https://tvline.com/2019/01/22/the-magicians-renewed-season-5-syfy/

Whenever I hear SyFy has renewed a show before the season starts airing I remember that time Eureka was renewed for two seasons and then they cancelled them about a week before they started on the finale of what was supposed to be the first of those two seasons.

SyFy press announcements mean nothing.  Been burned too many times.

WInterfalls

WInterfalls

18 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I hope that when this show ends, they know ahead of time so that they can write it as a final season (as opposed to a bunch of cliffhangers). As sad as I was to see 12 Monkeys end, they were given the opportunity to wrap everything up in the final season. 

This is where I am. I'm just happy to know season 5 is happening. If season 5 is the last one at least let them tie it up nicely and keep the quality level high. I would rather 5 great seasons than have the show falter and peter out for 2 or 3 more seasons. 

  • Love 3
ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

(edited)

The episode descriptions this season are cracking me up!

S4.E1
Brian takes a friend out for ice cream; Sam is one week away from retirement.

S4.E2
Dean Fogg gets a new suit.

I'm putting these under the spoiler tag because they haven't aired yet, but they're about as spoilery as the descriptions for the first two episodes:
 

Spoiler

S4.E3
Kady gets a puppy; Quentin meets a snake.

S4.E4
Josh gives Margo a muffin; Julia drinks Schnapps.

S4.E5
There are some flashbacks while Alice and Quentin confront a dog.

S4.E6
Quentin and Julia play Pictionary while Margo drinks some weird milk.

S4.E7
Kady goes to the flea market. What's Zelda been up to? This one's about Fen, you guys.

S4.E8
Penny licks an egg. Alice is jealous of a flower.

S4.E9
Quentin eats a quesadilla. Kady and Zelda share a smoke.

S4.E10
Margo hits her step count.

S4.E11
The gang talks to a book. Tick threatens to drink some water.

S4.E12
Quentin yells at a plant. Margo stares at a fish.

S4.E13
Quentin and Josh get cake; Quentin reflects on his actions.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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qtpye

qtpye

2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

From The Hollywood Reporter:  'The Magicians' Creators Explain That Game-Changing Season 4 Finale Death

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/magicians-season-4-finale-death-explained-jason-ralph-exits-1202736?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

I really do not understand why would they do this.

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JTMacc99

JTMacc99

Deep breath...

I've slept on it.

I read that article.

The second I read the part about the executive producers calling Lev Grossman about the idea of killing off Quentin, and his reaction was "I think that's a really great idea", I became much more okay with it. I get what they mean when they talk about Quentin's arc, and how exploring true loss with the other characters should be kind of amazing. There are a lot of rich, emotionally deep characters here, and each of them has been touched by Quentin in some way.  

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
11 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Deep breath...

I've slept on it.

I read that article.

The second I read the part about the executive producers calling Lev Grossman about the idea of killing off Quentin, and his reaction was "I think that's a really great idea", I became much more okay with it. I get what they mean when they talk about Quentin's arc, and how exploring true loss with the other characters should be kind of amazing. There are a lot of rich, emotionally deep characters here, and each of them has been touched by Quentin in some way.  

I read this article

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/04/the-magicians-quentin-death-eliot-queliot-bury-your-gays-sera-gamble-interview

And I'm having a moment of "$#^@ this show, seriously" 

They filmed a scene where Quentin's death was reversed.  Put Jason under a gag order and didn't tell the cast until Monday. $#^@ them, seriously.

PS.  And now I watch the episode again and understand why the cast doing blurbs after the episode about not knowing what was happening next was so banally upbeat and out of place with what had just happened in the episode.  They had no idea.  I'm doubly annoyed now.

Edited by ParadoxLost
SnoGirl

SnoGirl

On 4/18/2019 at 7:16 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I read this article

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/04/the-magicians-quentin-death-eliot-queliot-bury-your-gays-sera-gamble-interview

And I'm having a moment of "$#^@ this show, seriously" 

They filmed a scene where Quentin's death was reversed.  Put Jason under a gag order and didn't tell the cast until Monday. $#^@ them, seriously.

PS.  And now I watch the episode again and understand why the cast doing blurbs after the episode about not knowing what was happening next was so banally upbeat and out of place with what had just happened in the episode.  They had no idea.  I'm doubly annoyed now.

This. This times 100000000. It makes me furious that they lies to the cast like this. I am so annoyed. I feel baited and I am disappointed. I thought Magicians was better than a big death to “mix things up.” I love Quentin.

That said, I wish we could have been flies on the wall when the cast all found out. I want to know if they wished they had made different acting choices with their characters, advocates for something different knowing it was the end of the show as we had known it with Quentin.

paramitch

paramitch

(edited)

@toolazy, me too. I've been absolutely heartbroken, livid, etc. So you're not alone.

Meanwhile: there's been some complimentary press about the Magicians S4 "daring" finale but I am not sharing it because f#ck that noise. I can't remember the last time I felt this angry and betrayed over a television show finale. I hated it. I am not going to share happy thoughts about it.

However, this brilliant person Anna Menta at DECIDER absolutely got my betrayal and outrage and sadness, and set it forth beautifully (she has even stopped watching the show, which is where I'm at right now):

‘The Magicians’ Finale Broke My Heart, and I’m Not Sure I Can Go Back
https://decider.com/2019/04/18/the-magicians-season-4-finale-reaction/

ETA: Adding this as another superb and worthwhile take on the show's decision:

Tragedy Isn't Beautiful
https://medium.com/@emmacmillan/tragedy-isnt-beautiful-a-reaction-to-4x13-of-the-magicians-98c9cd34ed0d

And hey! The SYFY bloggers hated it too! (yay!)

The Magicians: The Season 4 Finale Changes the Show Forever
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-magicians-discussion-the-season-4-finale-changes-the-show-forever

Quote

I can’t believe I’m about to say this but f*ck it: The Magicians queerbaited us, y’all. They queerbaited us all season and then killed off a major queer character. I’m struggling to accept that this is the same show we’ve come to love over the course of four seasons. You’re absolutely right about Queliot. Why lean in so hard to that relationship, why have Eliot’s almost-confession to Q be his “moment” in the Happy Place, why have Q so obsessed with saving Eliot this entire season if there was nothing there? If you knew Qualice was endgame and Q was going to die and Queliot was never even going to be gifted a reunion before it all went down? It’s almost offensive how quickly the show just wrote this pairing off, not to mention the pacing and writing in this finale felt sloppy and, dare I say, lazy? If you’re going for shock and awe, at least plot the story well.

Meanwhile, back to the thread:

On 4/18/2019 at 5:58 AM, JTMacc99 said:

The second I read the part about the executive producers calling Lev Grossman about the idea of killing off Quentin, and his reaction was "I think that's a really great idea", I became much more okay with it. I get what they mean when they talk about Quentin's arc, and how exploring true loss with the other characters should be kind of amazing. There are a lot of rich, emotionally deep characters here, and each of them has been touched by Quentin in some way.  

I appreciate Grossman being willing to take one for the PR team here (and yes, I feel betrayed), but why should I assume the show will treat grief for Quentin with any richness or consistency when it could not treat his presence across the final 3 episodes that way when he was still alive? Much less honoring or acknowledging his actual relationships? Everyone but Alice was shortchanged. The person just 3 episodes before he had realized was toxic and not someone he could forgive, much less romance? 

I don't mind that he forgave her. I do mind that he suddenly took a retcon pill and proceeded to return to their "True Love" storyline of years before when mere days before that, he had eloquently expressed (and to her face) how and why he was done with them on that level. And she accepted.

Anyway. I wish I had your POV here, and envy that. Because I'm not remotely close. I'm furious at everyone involved who thought dissolving the show's glue and removing one of its best actors was a good idea (much less tossing an openly cruel ship they incessantly, mercilessly teased in S4 into a last-minute dumpster fire of "no worries, folks, he still likes girls!").

On 4/18/2019 at 5:16 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I read this article

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/04/the-magicians-quentin-death-eliot-queliot-bury-your-gays-sera-gamble-interview

And I'm having a moment of "$#^@ this show, seriously" 

They filmed a scene where Quentin's death was reversed.  Put Jason under a gag order and didn't tell the cast until Monday. $#^@ them, seriously.

PS.  And now I watch the episode again and understand why the cast doing blurbs after the episode about not knowing what was happening next was so banally upbeat and out of place with what had just happened in the episode.  They had no idea.  I'm doubly annoyed now.

Oh, I am definitely where you are. The producers f*cked over everyone here. The cast, the viewers, the books, everyone. I'm so upset over this finale, not least because it wasn't earned. It's cheap. 

The producers can speechify til the cows come home that blahdy blahdy blah "life isn't safe," "people die," but THEY had the choice. THEY chose what they did. They chose to write, push and promote (heavily) a storyline with a potential bisexual romance for Q and Eliot and then pulled the football Lucy-style. "Just kidding."

And now I have quit my favorite show. I may change my mind and probably will, but I'll hate myself too. I'm angry enough and feel morally righteous enough that going back will be a betrayal. 

Edited by paramitch
typing emotionally = typos and missing words, added to new articles versus new threads. Thanks!
  • Love 2
MissL

MissL

Yeah id like to say I'm done but I love Margo and Eliot so it's hard. How are they all even really going to tie together anymore? I find I don't care about the library or hedges so...all Fillory all the time? Don't know if I want that either. 

I have noticed that almost all of the actors have felt the need to jump in on social media and tell the audience they hear them and they are sorry but the writers/showrunners haven't said jack since that initial run of "aren't we the coolest most creative for killing the initial main character/white guy" posts (and Sera posted something about a dog). Otherwise crickets. I really do wonder if they expected the really really negative reaction or thought it would be mostly immediate grief followed by "can't wait to see where the story goes!" I mean I'm really curious. Is it all any press/buzz is good press zippidy dooo dah?

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JTMacc99

JTMacc99

5 minutes ago, MissL said:

Otherwise crickets. I really do wonder if they expected the really really negative reaction or thought it would be mostly immediate grief followed by "can't wait to see where the story goes!" I mean I'm really curious. Is it all any press/buzz is good press zippidy dooo dah?

Here is what they said about what they are doing now:

Quote

You mentioned that Quentin’s story is over, but have you discussed Jason returning to the show in any capacity, whether in flashbacks or otherwise?

Gamble: It's not that Quentin's story is done on The Magicians. It is that Jason Ralph is no longer a series regular on the show, and Quentin Coldwater is dead on the show, and the story moving forward is about the aftermath of that. Certainly on The Magicians, people can be very sad and can also be singing power anthems from the '80s, and having sex that will turn them into a werewolf, and making deals with fairies with no eyebrows, and be traveling inter-dimensionally, so it's not a bummer. But the emotions will run incredibly deep. Jason has left the show, and Quentin is dead, and a lot of season five is about what happens next, just as when somebody dies in our lives, the next season of our life is about what happens. I would underscore what John was just saying, which is for those of us who have experienced death…my story with my dad didn't end when he died. If anything, there have been about 500 chapters since then. I have always felt like TV and movies are a place where you can explore the most difficult and contradictory and painful of human emotions, and you can do it in a way that you can metabolize and that can even have fun and entertainment within it.

You’re in the early stages of writing season five. What does that look like without Quentin?

McNamara: It's interesting because not every character had the depth of relationship with Quentin that Julia, Eliot and Alice had. So it's interesting to really be realistic about it. There’s a bit of a clue to that in one of the final scenes of the finale where Margo and Eliot are in Fillory and she has this line about, "I'm gonna find my man for some hot grief-banging," and then realizes she's being horribly insensitive to Eliot. I don't think Margo in season one would have had that moment of self-awareness. That's how much she's changed. And I also think Eliot is not going to lash out at her, where previously he might have. They've both matured a lot. It's common knowledge that I have a strange idea of fun, but it's going to be strangely fun to track everybody missing Quentin in different ways for different reasons.

 Honestly, I think that they are just off being creative people doing their thing. If anything, this line is the biggest clue about what they think about all of the emotions they stirred up: "I have always felt like TV and movies are a place where you can explore the most difficult and contradictory and painful of human emotions, and you can do it in a way that you can metabolize and that can even have fun and entertainment within it."

Did they do something that is causing their audience to explore difficult and contradictory and painful emotions? Yep. Are they letting the audience do so without getting involved with "I'm sorry you feel that way" mumbo jumbo? Yep. 

Are they worried about any repercussions, like people quitting the show? Maybe a little at this point, but SyFy tends to kill shows after five years anyway, so probably not too much. 

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Guest

Guest

On 4/18/2019 at 4:56 AM, Azi said:

Because shocking the audience is all en vogue right now, no matter if it's earned or not (and they all always mention Game of Thrones and... it just doesn't work like that). I'm honestly really really pissed.

Not rehashing all the more serious issues with the finale, but seriously at some point shows that want to be like Game of Thrones need to pay attention to how they do it.

GoT doesn't permanently kill major characters out of the blue in finales. They die in the penultimates or during the season.  If they die in finales, they lingered until they got there or avoid their fate.

That would have helped the show with any number of issues like:

One more chance to do post episode interviews when the producers realize it went over way worse than they expected. And an opportunity to be cagier until they've read the room.

They aren't relying on a short glimpse into next season; it can have an episode to breathe and maybe not come across so uninspired.

It gives them a chance for Eliot to process it on screen rather than asking an audience that has lost faith in them to trust them on it not being swept aside.

Promo monkey freakout level wouldn't have reached defcon 1 and impaired judgement to the point that they played tone deaf "what happen's next season" clips from the remaining cast filmed when they were being lied to.

Maybe there would be something less negative to grab onto and discuss.

13 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Did they do something that is causing their audience to explore difficult and contradictory and painful emotions? Yep. Are they letting the audience do so without getting involved with "I'm sorry you feel that way" mumbo jumbo? Yep. 

Are they worried about any repercussions, like people quitting the show? Maybe a little at this point, but SyFy tends to kill shows after five years anyway, so probably not too much. 

Well, Gamble has been tweeting and its not going over well.

I do tend to agree that they aren't really that worried about any repercussions to the longevity of the show.  

They sounded like they were getting bored and grasping for inspiration.  I don't know why they thought Quentin was in the way of that, but they clearly did. So they may just see an early end to a show that they are having "fun" writing a better option than a show that is not inspiring to them and lasts longer.  And I can't say that they would be wrong about that.   When writing teams are uninterested, TV shows suck.

But at the same time, I'm not sure whether what they like is what I'll like because I can't see why killing Quentin was necessary to them.  So I'll give it a shot  in S5 (probably) but I'm not doing OUAT again, where I watch in escalating frustration until the bitter end.

JTMacc99

JTMacc99

This one is pretty thorough, and I think worth a read. There is also a link to a really thoughtful write up of Escape from the Happy Place:

The Magicians’ season 4 finale was frustrating and maybe irresponsible. I kinda loved it.
The Syfy series caps off its season perfectly — it just wasn’t the season most of us fans thought we were watching.

And another take on it:

We Learned To Love The Magicians’ Quentin Coldwater Right Before Losing Him

ProudMary

ProudMary

SyFy has posted a video compiling some of the most memorable Eliot/Margo moments.  I'm linking it here but I like to think of it as a campaign video. 🙂  Only 19 members have voted for Eliot and Margo in the 2019 Primetimers poll here. If you haven't already, take a few seconds and vote for our favorite friendship!

THE MAGICIANS | Best Friends Forever! Eliot And Margo | SYFY

VOTE HERE! BFFs Forever: Favourite Friendship
 

mammaM

mammaM

3 hours ago, ProudMary said:

SyFy has posted a video compiling some of the most memorable Eliot/Margo moments.  I'm linking it here but I like to think of it as a campaign video. 🙂  Only 19 members have voted for Eliot and Margo in the 2019 Primetimers poll here. If you haven't already, take a few seconds and vote for our favorite friendship!

THE MAGICIANS | Best Friends Forever! Eliot And Margo | SYFY

VOTE HERE! BFFs Forever: Favourite Friendship
 

Such a great video! And I already voted for Margo and Eliot. I'm on the "no way I'm watching next season after what they did to Q" boat, but if I did watch it would be for these two. One of the biggest problems with this season (which I did like except for the horrific ending) was no Margo and Eliot.

  • Love 3
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Am I just still super sensitive about this still, or are the fans who are still pissed about Quentin's death being made fun of here? "How dare you still be missing your white guy, your a sexist racist, your just like this pig guy for giving a crap, rejoice in our wokeness! Our woke pro suicide gay burying selves!" 

Its probably just me still being salty, right? Either way, it was pretty ham handed 😉 

  • Love 5
kieyra

kieyra

(edited)
8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Am I just still super sensitive about this still, or are the fans who are still pissed about Quentin's death being made fun of here? "How dare you still be missing your white guy, your a sexist racist, your just like this pig guy for giving a crap, rejoice in our wokeness! Our woke pro suicide gay burying selves!" 

Its probably just me still being salty, right? Either way, it was pretty ham handed 😉 

I didn’t even watch it past “oh it’s Julia and some pig guy, pass”.

I only still check this thread in case they reveal Quentin’s coming back.

I know they aren’t going to. Can’t help hoping.

Meanwhile, I’ve stuck by my guns—no more Netflix rewatches. No recommendations. It wasn’t just “oh, they killed off my favorite character/ship”, it’s that they did it in a harmful and hurtful way, with an audience they must know is vulnerable. 

Edited by kieyra
  • Love 7
mammaM

mammaM

10 hours ago, kieyra said:

I didn’t even watch it past “oh it’s Julia and some pig guy, pass”.

I only still check this thread in case they reveal Quentin’s coming back.

I know they aren’t going to. Can’t help hoping.

Meanwhile, I’ve stuck by my guns—no more Netflix rewatches. No recommendations. It wasn’t just “oh, they killed off my favorite character/ship”, it’s that they did it in a harmful and hurtful way, with an audience they must know is vulnerable. 

You and me both, smh.

  • Love 7
mustbekarma

mustbekarma

On 7/25/2019 at 9:21 AM, mammaM said:

You and me both, smh.

I concur.  For me, it's the concept of diminishing returns. If you kill off my favorite character, then you're going to kill of my next favorite character, yada yada yada. My interest in your show is directly proportional to your interest in keeping characters alive. Usually it takes more than one character dying to get me to swear off a show. (I'm looking at you, Stupidnatural and The Nagging Negan, ER The Walking Dead.)

Now it just takes one favorite character to kill my interest in a show.

  • Love 2
Guest

Guest

On 7/24/2019 at 1:34 PM, tennisgurl said:

Am I just still super sensitive about this still, or are the fans who are still pissed about Quentin's death being made fun of here? "How dare you still be missing your white guy, your a sexist racist, your just like this pig guy for giving a crap, rejoice in our wokeness! Our woke pro suicide gay burying selves!" 

Its probably just me still being salty, right? Either way, it was pretty ham handed 😉 

You aren't being salty.  I'd go as far as to say that they are trying to shut the audience up by making it uncomfortable to gripe about Quentin's death.  

I don't like being manipulated.  I don't like these show runners.  This pushed me more on the not going to watch side of the fence.

beeemkcl

beeemkcl

This is an excellent series, but even Buffy the Vampire Slayer could 'go on' without Buffy Anne Summers.

Quentin Coldwater was largely important because of his apparently unique (the true meaning of "one and only") connection to Fillory. Of secondary importance is that he connected Eliot Waugh and Margo Hanson and Alice Quinn and Julia Wicker.

He wasn't the most powerful and he wasn't the best Magician.

He arguably is eviler than both Julia Wicker and Alice Quinn.

Quentin could eventually return and there is still clearly a lot of story to tell. We don't yet know what is Original Penny's path. Alice will now be in her version of Heaven and have arguably the most power and influence she's ever had. Margo and Eliot (who has 2 Books) have renewed purpose.

Julia is now Team Leader given her special connection to both Penny 23 and Kady.

Although the Quentin/Eliot could have been interesting to further explore, it's clear that Quentin was still in love with Alice and Quentin cared about Julia most of all. And like Julia, Eliot has further pain (as does the entire Group).

coppersin

coppersin

I'm amused that the trailer mentioned Endgame, since Magicians and Avengers teamed up with GOT to be my triple-gut-punch of entertainment disappointment this year. Seriously. At this point I'm worried that Disney of things will kill off adorable baby NotYoda just to be edgy.

Interesting that the trailer didn't show much of what the actual non-grief storylines will be this year. There's a lot to cover.

  • Love 3
kieyra

kieyra

(edited)
On 11/15/2019 at 11:31 AM, beeemkcl said:

This is an excellent series, but even Buffy the Vampire Slayer could 'go on' without Buffy Anne Summers.

This is a strange way of framing it, since BTVS was never really put in that situation. (Buffy didn't stay dead, of course.)

Most people's objections (that I have seen) are not about whether one can OMGWTF kill off a main character and get away with it, nor are they about Quentin's relative value or evilness compared to other characters. It was the setup and context ... the pointless death, the way it smacked of suicide, and the casual cruelty of not even letting Quentin and Eliot speak one last time.

There are right ways to do this kind of thing ... and then there are ways that make people swear off your show and stop telling other people how great it is. 

Edited by kieyra
  • Useful 1
  • Love 7
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

On 11/17/2019 at 4:52 AM, coppersin said:

Seriously. At this point I'm worried that Disney of things will kill off adorable baby NotYoda just to be edgy.

DO NOT PUT THAT EVIL OUT INTO THE UNIVERSE!!! 

Its so sad, there was a time when I would have been ecstatic to see this trailer and get a premier date for one of my favorite shows, but now...it just makes me sad knowing that a show I once loved has fallen victim, like so many TV/movies lately, to "angst angst angst omg we is so dark and edgy we can give you a haircut" syndrome. Not even having Elliot back at last makes me interested in seeing this. 

  • Love 3
mammaM

mammaM

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

DO NOT PUT THAT EVIL OUT INTO THE UNIVERSE!!! 

Its so sad, there was a time when I would have been ecstatic to see this trailer and get a premier date for one of my favorite shows, but now...it just makes me sad knowing that a show I once loved has fallen victim, like so many TV/movies lately, to "angst angst angst omg we is so dark and edgy we can give you a haircut" syndrome. Not even having Elliot back at last makes me interested in seeing this. 

You took the words right out of my mouth (I hope you washed your hands😂). 

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