Juliette Silverton: She's A Vet By Trade

[johntfs]

I don't know if I buy that hexenbiests protect Wesen from humans.  I can't remember when Adalind or her mother have had much of anything but self-interest.  Renard's mother protected her son, and helped a Grimm get his Grimm back. Anything is possible in this little drama, but I don't fancy seeing Nick and Juliette at odds and I don't want to see Juliette growing into her responsibilities of killing humans or Wesen.  That's what cops and Grimms are for. 

 

Perhaps hexenbiests (or most of them) aren't Wesen protectors, but Henrietta did stress the idea that Juliette was channeling a "primal force of Nature."  The idea that Juliette might need to "give something back" in terms of healing/protecting Nature is certainly possible. 

 

If nothing else, giving Juliette her own set of supernatural responsibilities creates a point of worry and tension for Nick.  Also, it gives us a reason why Juliette can't just be with Nick all the time to drop a hexenbiest smackdown on any Wesen he has to deal with.  Like,

 

Juliette: "God, I'm sorry Nick, I wish I could help, but Henrietta says there's some kind of dimensional weak spot in the North woods that'll open into a full blown portal to Hell unless we reinforce the wards.  Plus, I've got to remove a lung tumor from Chester, the Dawsons' golden retriever, later this afternoon, assuming things don't, like, literally go to Hell.  Be a dear and bring some Chinese home, 'kay?  Bye."

Edited March 1, 2015 by johntfs

[Prevailing Wind]

Where I work, she would've said, "Chester Dawson."  Our Animal Hospital has the tendency not to use the owners' names.  And a stunning number of pets are called "Bella."

 

I do like the scenario, though. 

[johntfs]

Figure Juliette was clarifying for Nick.  As a hexenbiest Juliette might become capable of healing actual humans.  She might expand her practice in that direction as well: Silverton Veterinary Clinic: "We'll heal you and your little dog too."

 

Also, it never occurred to me to attach the family name to the dog and it should have.  Bitsie refers to her dog as "Henry Tulloch."

[33kaitykaity]

I'm sorry if I missed the discussion of this question, but why can't they just undo the Juliette-as-hexenbiest the same way that Adalind lost her powers all those episodes ago?  Wasn't it as simple as Adalind drinking Nick's blood?  This bothers me.

[johntfs]

I'm sorry if I missed the discussion of this question, but why can't they just undo the Juliette-as-hexenbiest the same way that Adalind lost her powers all those episodes ago?  Wasn't it as simple as Adalind drinking Nick's blood?  This bothers me.

 

The show didn't get into it all that much, but Henrietta essentially said that Juliette was too powerful for that (or, really, anything) to work on her.  Think of a wasp, a spider and an elephant.  If a wasp stings a spider, its poison will kill the spider.  If the wasp stings an elephant, its poison will do the elephant little if any harm because the elephant is too big and powerful to be affected by a wasp.

[33kaitykaity]

The show didn't get into it all that much, but Henrietta essentially said that Juliette was too powerful for that (or, really, anything) to work on her.  Think of a wasp, a spider and an elephant.  If a wasp stings a spider, its poison will kill the spider.  If the wasp stings an elephant, its poison will do the elephant little if any harm because the elephant is too big and powerful to be affected by a wasp.

That's a reasonable, logical explanation that totally fits within the show's mythology.  You rock.  ;)  .  

[OtterMommy]

The show didn't get into it all that much, but Henrietta essentially said that Juliette was too powerful for that (or, really, anything) to work on her.

 

This is what makes me think that Juliette's condition is reversible (maybe not with Nick's blood, but with the blood of another Grimm) and she (Henrietta) has her reasons why she wants Juliette to remain a Hexenbiest.  When Renard referred Juliette to Henrietta, he never said that Henrietta would "fix" her, just that Henrietta was "someone to talk to."

 

But, I agree on this...it is beyond annoying that absolutely NO MENTION of the Blood of a Grimm has come up yet.  When the show returns on March 20th, that better be one of the first things Nick says to Juliette....

[amensisterfriend]

I have seen this brought up by several people over time.  However, this is a false dichotomy.  There are a whole bunch of other things that could happen if Nick is not with Juliette. He could stay single, thinking being a Grimm is too dangerous.  He could meet someone and end up in a committed relationship.  It could be a combo - hold off on dating for a while then meet someone.  His love life could not be focused on at all with just hints via comments in conversation.  And a whole bunch of options that I'm not even thinking of right now.  I really don't think this would turn into the These are the Days of Nick's Lives...  This show is not about romance.

 

THANK YOU! 

 

I actually find it a reflection of how poor the writing and acting are for Juliette that the highest praise most viewers can give to this character is "well, if she were dead, we'd be subjected to Nick dating a lot..." ;) 

 

No matter how supernaturally 'empowered' they're trying to make her now, Juliette is, for me, an example of a sadly ill-defined role made even flatter and duller than it has to be by an enormously talent-deficient actress. I feel like the writers never took even a few seconds to ask themselves who Juliette was supposed to be. She has pretty much ZERO salient personality traits. And the abysmal actress seems far better suited to play a vapid, dumb, vaguely snotty valley girl than the kind, intelligent vet the writers want her to be.  

Edited March 19, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[johntfs]

I've liked the character of Juliette and Bitsie's portrayal of her for awhile, even if some of the writing for her seems subpar.  It feels like a lot of the time that if the writers can't write a woman as a motherly caregiver or a mentally ill hot mess, they have nothing to write for her.  The main reason I'm watching the show right now is Juliette's hexenbiest storyline.  That seems like a story that's most likely to kick things up a notch, and Grimm really needs to kick things up a notch.

Edited March 19, 2015 by johntfs

[Actionmage]

I just hope that she ends up at Henrietta's place, if she isn't staying home. I  think it could be cool if Juliette also reaches out to Pilar. That way we get to see how the various flavors of witch are in the City of Roses.  World-building, mmm, mmm, good!

[ShadowFacts]

I would definitely like to see her reconnect with Pilar, she's interesting.  She is a bit more detached from the Grimm/hexenbiest goings-on than Henrietta, who I don't trust at all. 

[jhlipton]

.. there'll be a series of abortive dates and short-term relationships where the hot girl of the week/month turns out to be evil or dies or is married to some scary-ass Wesen all in the service of "Oh gosh darn it, poor ol' Nick just can't catch a break in his love life." 

 

They do that and I am OUT!  Blech!

 

I'd rather have Katia Winters become Nick's "forever girl" than that!

[Mojeaux]

Disclaimer: Haven’t liked the character or the actress’s lack of talent from the beginning.

Having said that, the better way to handle her growth arc would have been to follow up on her being a vet and delving into Wesen and Grimm anatomy/DNA like she started to when she didn’t know about wesenality. Like scientific reasons Nick can do what he does (see things others can’t, as explained by his opthalmologist). Like ways to help Wesen special problems, working in concert with Rosalee as pharmacist. Why Adalind could do what she did. If she’s a vet, she’s a scientist (as shown by her microscope). If I were a scientist, I’d be curious how all this is accomplished scientifically.

She could have had a very strong presence and numerous shows could have been written around her and WOTW. Unless, of course, the writers are science-averse.

Edited because improper verb conjugation makes my OCD twitch.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Mojeaux

[Actionmage]

Unless, of course, the writers are science-averse.

 

You may have something there, Mojeaux.  We haven't seen the hearty, hardy lady coroner in ever, it seems. She loved the weird and off-beat. Even after the beating she took.

 

Also, I thought that the whole changing Juliette's job was to eventually add her a bit more naturally into stories. Yet there have been arguments about why Juliette couldn't/shouldn't be allowed near a wesen. I don't agree, but the show's actual writers aren't even really showing Juliette doing her vet thing as is.

 

Aren't there interns or paid folk who are there to actually research things and make the script tighter in that sense? ::checks IMDb:: Doesn't seem to be.

 

Anyhow, I like that Juliette has been Hexened. That would mean that Nick can relax some, knowing that Juliette- with some more training- isn't some cream puff to worry over and he can take on his Grimm duties like he did his cop duties. Juliette and Nick have a support system, something  I'm feeling that other Grimms don't cultivate. So even if Juliette needed help, she could theoretically call her buds or even Bud. *g*

 

As to their coupledom, and how off-book Nick seems to be to old school Grimms and wesen, I am curious as to the Wesen Council's take on those wacky Americans and their insane not keeping strict lines between Grimms, hexenbiests,  wesen and Royals.  I think Juliette would have zero effs to give the Council, but would worry as to the fallout on her friends.

[aradia22]

I don't watch this show. I only see a few minutes in passing as my parents are watching it. But Juliette is THE WORST. That is all.

[placate]

Should we feel something about Juliette blaming everyone else for her current condition or should we ask if this character is Adalind 2 with her trying to kill a visibly pregnant Adalind?

[ljp]

I do not get this whole Juliette plot line. I liked her fine when she was a supportive girlfriend/vet. There was plenty of drama to mine about how can be supportive and helpful but deal with the double whammy of nick not only being a cop and therefore in danger, but also on top of it a Grimm which is super dangerous job. And I used to really like when Juliette would team up with Rosalind due to her scientific background to try to figure out medicines and stuff to help fix things.

This whole hexenbeast the thing is awful. First off, Adeline was evil because the character Adaline is an scheming power hungry awful person who took after her awful mother. I never used to get the sense that here hexebeasts were intrinsically evil, just that the person Adeline was a scheming awful human being. Even if Juliette had to become a hexenbeasts why isn't this an AWESOME thing? Now she has all the powers and nick doesn't have to worry about her and she can help him? I mean it makes no sense that her being Wesson has to be bad. Nick's best friends are Wesson, he is supposed to be a different type of Grimm who helps people and tries to bring peace. I have zero understanding of this plot line and Juliette is just unbearable now. Windy, petulant, blaming everybody, assuming they will hate her because of *what* she is instead of taking her for *who* she is. And the show is reinforcing this horrible bad racist discriminatory idea by making her horrible and actually having everyone horrified by what she is. And making her unlikeable to boot. It's just baffling. I mean was I watching a different show in the beginning? With the heavy handed anti discrimination theme with the idea that Wesson are different but nick is the anti racist Grimm who judges each grim by who they are not what they are? Wtf show!

Edited April 12, 2015 by ljp

[Snarkette]

It isn't just anti-Hexen racism, Juliette is a TransHexenbiest now by choice as she declared in the Jail cell and CisGrimm is suggesting she might need to go through forced conversion therapy to renounce that side of her.

[Actionmage]

The scary idea I just realized the storyline might be: an answer to 'What are Hexenbiests?'   This may be trying to explain what  exactly Hexens are and how they work. Only it isn't translating to screen at all. At. All.

 

We've seen one way to un-make a hexenbiest. We've seen one way to re-acquire your hexenbiest/hexenbiest powers. We've seen a vague potion way to something something become a "force of nature" uber-hexenbiest/StarChild/One Girl In All The World/::eyeroll::  

 

 We've been told that there are differences between Hexen- and Zauerbiests, yet nothing concrete has actually been stated as the or a difference. 

 

We have  experienced two excruciatingly stretched out stories about becoming a hexenbiest, one we are still experiencing.

 

I think we are supposed to think of everything to-date as meshing/world-building. I do not think that.

 

As a result of the shoddy writing and lack of actual world-building (re: the Royals/anything Ye Olde Worlde), a character that many found inoffensive, if not a favorite, has now become a character they dread to see. The audience that already disliked her are hating the sound of her name or the sight of her face. Those who've always liked her are not finding the character they enjoyed in much of the back end of this season and are unhappy.

 

Like some others, I am almost to where Patrick Duffy emerging from the guest room and asking for Pam would be welcome. This isn't how fans should feel about their shows and characters, is it? It's not just us here, right?

[spaulding]

There is absolutely  nothing about Juliette that appears like she's numb.

 

And becoming numb does not answer the question of why she's not herself and saying things she supposedly doesn't mean. You know what this means? I'm guessing that everything that's happened during Juliette's B*tch arc will mean nothing. Everything she says and does will mean nothing, because she was not herself. So, I'm glad they're spending so much time on it.

 

Juliette isn't numb, and her actions are inexcusable.  She's playing passive-aggressive games with Nick, Renard, and the restaurant dude.  She blames everybody for what happened to her.  She tries to murder Adalind.

 

I don't know how Juliette can have a redemptive arc when she really is the worst.  People have to be rooting for somebody to have a redemptive arc, but Juliette's recent characterization has put off people.

 

By numb, maybe it's really about Tulloch's acting.  When she's acting, I'm not sure if she's comatose or I am.

 

 

You know what else?

 

I see MORE relationship drama, where Juliette gets cured and feels so, so bad for acting like an adolescent, and the next season is spent with her apologizing to Nick and saying she's not worthy, and Nick having to reassure her that she "wasn't herself."

 

This crap has way too long of a shelf life.

 

There has always been relationship drama between Juliette and Nick.  There was never anything calm or stable about their relationship.  Rosalee and Monroe & Nick and Hank have the most stable relationship on the show. 

 

Regardless of what happens to Juliette, she'll still be insufferable. 

 

If Juliette returns to normal, i.e., a good character, there will still be drama as she and Nick try to get to know each other again.  Just like in S2/3.

 

I shudder to think of Juliette becoming an evil character on this show.  Ugh.  Nothing but drama and angst.  I guess it would be somewhat comparable to the good-bad relationship between the cartoon versions of Batman and Catwoman or Batman and Talia (except Batman didn't act like a little bitch).  Ugh, the love of your life is evil.  

Juliette was made a vet solely because Bitsie liked animals. She was going to be a baker. It had nothing to do with making her more integral to the plot. As I've said, I think Monroe and Rosalee would both be horrified if they were thought of as "animals" who would fall more under Juliette's skills as opposed to a wesen or even regular, doctor. They are not animals.

 

I'm glad that the show clarified that there are indeed wesen doctors.  Wesen doctors, wesen churches, wesen support groups, etc.

[johntfs]

Juliette isn't numb, and her actions are inexcusable.  She's playing passive-aggressive games with Nick, Renard, and the restaurant dude.  She blames everybody for what happened to her.  She tries to murder Adalind.

 

I don't know how Juliette can have a redemptive arc when she really is the worst.  People have to be rooting for somebody to have a redemptive arc, but Juliette's recent characterization has put off people.

 

The conversation in the Spice Shop between Renard, Rosalee and Monroe had as its context the idea that the "numbing" was part of the spell that Elizabeth used to enchant Juliette so that turned into Adalind to get Nick back his powers.

 

Given her recent behavior it seems likely that "numbing" is an effect that reduces Juliette's conscience and inhibitions, very much like she has been drugged.  It's sort of like if somebody decided to dose you with PCP and other chemicals so you went to a home and murdered the family living in your drug-induced madness.  Presumably your behavior would not be "inexcusable" because you would have a very good excuse: Someone drugged you against your will.

Edited April 20, 2015 by johntfs

[Actionmage]

Juliette has been spelled/potioned by Adalind via cat scratch ( Majique!), counter-spelled/potioned by Catherine via Renard, who in turn has a transformative spell on him. The original spell was two-fold, though: coma-induction and specific memory loss. As an extra bit of giggles for Catherine, Adalind's mom, Renard's purification goop had a bit of sexual obsession.  Eventually, Juliette and Nick's love for each other was able to work past the memory thing and the obsession thing. ( If there is yet another spell/potion at that point, it would not surprise me.) 

 

Surprisingly nothing happened, really, to Juliette until Adalind returned and the Baby Diana stuff happened. The spell Adalind used hasn't been explained well, so we don't know what, if any, effect is supposed to have happened to her. We know about Nick.  Then, the wesenrein came along, and Juliette accepted another round of  'Sure, give me a swig of whatever from the witch's bong.'

 

The woman has had what amounts to at least four experimental drug trials happen to her and only one was anything close to voluntary. Juliette's hair has changed color. She's at  a bit of a loss. She enjoys how her new power feels. She feels she is losing parts of her self. ( She's stated that.)   I get that her anger/regret /fear/excitement/confusion is coming out every which way and is unsettling to everyone, including Juliette. I can also see where not wanting anymore magic crap happening to her is a higher priority over 'make me my old self now!' 

 

If the plan is to keep Juliette hexen, then she is in actuality grieving. Anger and acting out are just one step to getting  peace. She may be moving on to acceptance and bargaining.

 

At the beginning of the show, they actually did have a nice relationship. I complimented the show on how our hero wasn't dark and angsty. How he had a stable home life and normal girlfriend with no drama.

 

Yep. This^.

[johntfs]

It is possible for humans (and hexenbiests) to feel more than one emotion at a time.  It is possible for those emotions to conflict.  Juliette can enjoy the power that comes from being a hexenbiest while still being angry about being transformed into one.  She can also be working through her pain, loss and anger while still being under the influence of a mystical effect.

 

Also, I kind of give Juliette a pass on trying to kill Adalind.  That's really more of a rational act of self-defense.  Lest we forget, the "biestfight" was triggered by Adalind coming to Juliette's home, breaking in and then attempt to kidnap Juliette, likely with an eye toward holding her hostage and/or torturing her for infomation.

[ShadowFacts]

It would be realistic if Juliette showed conflict and confusion, and writing and acting could accomplish that.  But they're not.  She isn't mixing in her own personal responsibility and free will with the bad outcome.  She only wants to blame and lash out.  It's toddler-ish, and really not the Juliette we've come to know.  Granted, this is a tipping point and she's under the influence of a spell, but I need to see some of the old Juliette to make this interesting to me.

[Prevailing Wind]

Y'know, I've been reading here how Tulloch pretty much has job security, considering her off-screen romance with Giuntoli.  But doesn't all that togetherness actually stress the relationship?  Wouldn't they be better off if she goes &, say, gets a job on Portlandia?

[BigBlueMastiff]

 

No matter how supernaturally 'empowered' they're trying to make her now, Juliette is, for me, an example of a sadly ill-defined role made even flatter and duller than it has to be by an enormously talent-deficient actress. I feel like the writers never took even a few seconds to ask themselves who Juliette was supposed to be. She has pretty much ZERO salient personality traits. And the abysmal actress seems far better suited to play a vapid, dumb, vaguely snotty valley girl than the kind, intelligent vet the writers want her to be.

Can't get past her wonky eye, it throws me off every time she's on screen.

[johntfs]

Y'know, I've been reading here how Tulloch pretty much has job security, considering her off-screen romance with Giuntoli.  But doesn't all that togetherness actually stress the relationship?  Wouldn't they be better off if she goes &, say, gets a job on Portlandia?

 

Perhaps one reason that Nick and Juliette are separate on the show is to give David and Bitsie time to be together offscreen.

[anamika]

 She isn't mixing in her own personal responsibility and free will with the bad outcome.  She only wants to blame and lash out.  It's toddler-ish, and really not the Juliette we've come to know. 

 

Beg to disagree, really. This is the Juliette we have come to know and hence the reason why many of us dislike the character. When has Juiette owned up to any personal responsibility for anything? Blaming others is the status quo for her and the minute she agreed to the whole 'making Nick a Grimm again' ritual, I knew  that if there were side effects,  she was going to blame everyone else which is why I disliked that they went for it.

 

She loses her memory: blames Nick. Adalind tricks Nick into sleeping with her (In effect raping him) and she blames Nick. There's side effects from the hat-ritual and she blames Nick.  She demands that Nick’s friend Monroe go behind Nick’s back and let her into his trailer. She believes a person she met twice (Adalind) and who the police arrest, over Nick! She’s one of the most irrational, plot driven and badly written characters I have seen on TV.

 

I mean look at her actions after Nick gets degrimmed. She blames who he is for what happened to him then goes behind his back and tells his friends not to work on a solution. She still does not want him to be a Grimm even though he is depressed, suffers from excruciating headaches and she overhears Bud saying that wesen want to kill him. None of this moves her, but someone burning a cross on Monroe/Rosalee’s front yard immediately changes her mind. Like, who does she actually love here? Nick or Monroe/Rosalee? The writing for this character is incredibly silly.

 

She never ruminates over the fact that she has had a choice ever since the end of season 2. Nick gave her the choice. She chose to stay with him. She chose to actively participate in his life, even demanding that she accompany him on his cases. She chose to take part in the ritual that re-grimmed Nick. She’s an adult and yet refuses to act like one, immediately blaming Nick the minute anything untoward happens.

 

No other character behaves this way. I mean Monroe, Rosalee and Hank have also suffered for being Nick’s mates. We don’t see them whining about that all the time. How the hell is Nick living with this person? He would have serious psychological problems if he continues to live with someone who blames him when anything goes wrong.

 

As I mentioned earlier, this is what comes from pandering to the actors. Bitsie Tulloch wants Juliette to be bad-ass and have fight scenes so hey! Let’s make her a hexenbeist! That’s bad-ass! Apparently, in their books, a female character cannot be bad-ass unless she’s fighting and shooting guns and what not. And while we are on that topic, does Juliette have to say ‘Bitch’ every time she runs into Adalind?  Does that empower her in any way? Adalind always comes across as the calmer and less hysterical of the two. Juliette’s angry tantrums makes her seem immature and childish, not bad-ass, and it astounds me that the writers and the actress (Who has taken to twitter to proclaim how bad-ass Juliette is) are unable to see this.

 

And unfortunately this is a trend that I see continuing into season 5. I stopped watching this show (except for bits and pieces) somewhere in the middle of this season. The Juliette and Adalind nonsense took away from my enjoyment of it and the patheticly low ratings indicate that a lot of others have also stopped watching. I think we will get one more season and that’s about it. And it will be more dumb-ass Juliette instead of them spending some time on Grimms, the keys, the hidden treasure, the resistance (Did that plot of Renard meeting with them go anywhere?) , the royals etc. I am assuming that they have not dealt with any of this. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by anamika

[ShadowFacts]

 

Beg to disagree, really. This is the Juliette we have come to know and hence the reason why many of us dislike the character. When has Juiette owned up to any personal responsibility for anything? Blaming others is the status quo for her and the minute she agreed to the whole 'making Nick a Grimm again' ritual, I knew  that if there were side effects,  she was going to blame everyone else which is why I disliked that they went for it.

 

I don't think she had personal responsibility for all the crap that befell her due to Nick being a Grimm involved with creatures who can poison her and cast spells, hence nothing for her to own up for.  In the early seasons she was helpful, supportive, friendly to Monroe and Rosalee, not a nag about Nick running off on cases, able to defend herself (and Monroe one time) when necessary.  She wasn't all the time a whiny shrew.  I think her reactions to Adalind were natural ones.  I think she was selfless in undergoing the regrimming process.  Now she is behaving uber-badly, but this is not par for the course for the character.  I understand that people who previously couldn't stand Juliette really must have their hair on fire now, because I liked the character fine up until the hexening, and I want her off my screen.  But I do not think this is the character who was initially presented.

[aradia22]

Again, I don't really watch the show. I didn't like Juliette much from the start but that was more because I thought everyone on the show, with the exception of the actor playing Monroe, was a rather bad/mediocre actor. That said, I don't remember her being as annoying as she is now. It's to the point where it seems like with this season and last season that someone on the writing staff is going through a divorce. I cannot otherwise explain why the female characters are so awful.

[BkWurm1]

I've really not had a problem with Juliette or the actress.  I got sick of her amnesia arc but once that was over, I've been fine. Initially the hexenbeist storyline was shocking and interesting and her fear and worries seemed in character and justifiable but it's like a switch has been flipped and while M&R are making excuses and saying it's not Juliette, why is only Juliette evil because she's a hexenbeist?  Adelaide is an awful human being but her actions made sense within her world the Captain's mother seems sane and even loving.  Henrietta doesn't seem like a psycho.  Why is Juliette suddenly ready to randomly hurt people?

 

I can understand not wanting to give up her power and I can understand her thinking she and Nick are hopeless but she LIKES hurting and killing things now and that doesn't mesh with the character or what we've seen with other Hexenbeists.  I've been assuming that eventually they would fix this problem and eventually even maybe something would happen where it would turn out that the baby turns out to be genetically Nick and Juliette's but now with what's going on I sincerely have to wonder if they are getting ready to kill off the character.  It feels like the writers are out to make the viewers hate her and view her actions as unforgivable and thus be ok when they kill her off. 

 

I'm totally spoiler free so it's all spec and I do know that she's dating the lead but while that gives them the producer's ear, if they want to take their show in a new direction, dating the lead isn't going to save her job.  Until this most recent episode I've assumed it could be managed but now I'm not so sure there is a way to come back from this or what the preview's hinted at.

 

Even if they suppress her Hexenbeist abilities, doesn't that mean that deep down she's still this evil, ticking time bomb?  How is that a solution? 

[Fable]

The thing about this whole arc is the completely messed up writing.  One minute, Juliette is all bitchy, angry and bitter, blaming everyone for ruining her life and the next, she is all bitchy, arrogant, power hungry and loving her new found self, so good Lord, which is it?  I don't find Bitsie a strong enough actor to pull off this kind of conflict. 

[spaulding]

At the beginning of the show, they actually did have a nice relationship. I complimented the show on how our hero wasn't dark and angsty. How he had a stable home life and normal girlfriend with no drama.

 

In S1, NIck & Juliette and Hank & Adalind had a double date.  Nick was angry and freaking out, and Juliette kept saying that Adalind's a nice person or something.  I knew that the drama was starting.  The S1 ending with Nick and Juliette at the trailer was full of eyerolling drama.

 

That reminds me, I miss that cute cat. 

 

This is the Juliette we have come to know and hence the reason why many of us dislike the character.

 

I agree with your post.  I'll include how Juliette sees her friends and Nick.  At no point has Nick killed any innocent wesen.  He has always shown himself to be a different kind of Grimm and has reached out to the wesen community.  I have no idea why she "fears" that Nick will kill her because she's now a hexenbiest. 

 

Same with her dream about Rosalee.  In the dream, Juliette was getting headaches and kept telling Rosalee about them.  Rosalee was acting like a shrew and didn't care about Juliette's feelings.  It was obviously a dream because Rosalee has never been a shrew. 

 

I don't give a shit how the writers want to explain away how Juliette views her friends and Nick.  It's magic, or Juliette's not being herself.  She comes off as petty and whiny, and the writers want to play it as "poor Juliette."  Poor Juliette, she's a victim of her relationship with Nick the Grimm or something like that. 

 

As I mentioned earlier, this is what comes from pandering to the actors. Bitsie Tulloch wants Juliette to be bad-ass and have fight scenes so hey! Let’s make her a hexenbeist! That’s bad-ass! Apparently, in their books, a female character cannot be bad-ass unless she’s fighting and shooting guns and what not.

 

If Tulloch was pressing for her character to be some badass, I would be pissed because it would make her character the center of this show.  Nick's the Grimm and therefore, is supposed to be the badass.  Now, everything centers around Juliette and Tulloch's ego.  It centers around Juliette and people's reactions to her. 

 

I stopped watching this show (except for bits and pieces) somewhere in the middle of this season. The Juliette and Adalind nonsense took away from my enjoyment of it and the patheticly low ratings indicate that a lot of others have also stopped watching. I think we will get one more season and that’s about it.

 

I was shocked that this show got a full season renewal.  I was guessing that it would be 13 episodes for S5 and S6.  Then, canceled.

[spaulding]

anamika that was a well-written post and reminded me of the ridiculousness when Juliette went running around telling everyone Nick cheated on her without giving ANY explanation to go with it, and Nick had to grovel and scrap and beg for her forgiveness. Like, if a Nick clone showed up in her bedroom wanting sexytimes, she totally wouldn't have done it. This character...she's just a joke at this point.

 

The writers blew it with this potential love-hate relationship between Nick & Juliette.  Juliette is not a badass character who could potentially be Nick's greatest enemy (e.g., Batman/Talia, Batman/Catwoman, Green Lantern/Star Sapphire).  Instead, she's just unlikeable and unwatchable.  She really is the worst.

 

I haven't watched the most recent episode, but I started reading the Iron Hans thread.

 

She burned the Grimmibago!  There's no redemption for this character.  She needs to DIAF.  If she can blame Nick for sleeping with Adalind/Juliette, Nick can blame Juliette for burning the Grimmibago even if she's under some spell, or isn't herself, or is trying to control the raging hexenbiest inside.  Or whatever. 

 

No forgiveness for what happened to the Grimmibago, a major character for this show. There's no coming back for this character. There's no redemption for an unlikeable character that many people aren't rooting for.

 

No Poor Juliette.  No misunderstood victim.  No.  

Edited April 26, 2015 by spaulding

[Blue Plastic]

I wouldn't put it past them to NOT ONLY say that none of Juliette's evil actions this season have been her fault because new or made Hexies have no control over themselves BUT ALSO after she gets "fixed"/suppressed she will probably lose all memory of what happened while she was deranged.  It will be Juliette with Amnesia 2.0, just you wait for it.  I will be extremely surprised if it doesn't happen this way.

 

It's perfect for the writers.  They get to shake everything up this season and then hit the Staples EASY button to put everything back the way it was within a couple of episodes next season, no bothersome lasting changes to the writing or storyline required.  Juliette squeezes a few tears out of her walleyes, Rosalee explains that it's DOUBLE not Juliette's fault because she couldn't help it and she can't remember what happened anyway, Nick shoots one last wistful glance at the burned-out trailer, and poof!  On to the next story line that will never be resolved!

[anamika]

I don't think she had personal responsibility for all the crap that befell her due to Nick being a Grimm involved with creatures who can poison her and cast spells, hence nothing for her to own up for. 

 

I meant, take personal responsibility for her own choices. She chose to live with and actively participate in Nick’s life. She chose to participate in the plot to kidnap Adalind’s baby. She chose to participate in the re-Grimming ritual. If crap befell her, it’s because of her choices, right or wrong. She needs to stop pointing her fingers at Nick and co. every time things go wrong and own up to the fact that no one put a gun to her head and forced her to do these things. She’s an adult. Take responsibility for the choices one makes. Not behave like an idiot the instant things go south.

[spaulding]

I know in her interview Bitsie said that she can't see Nick/Juliette having a healthy relationship, because you need conflict in a show. This probably explains why the show has taken wrong turn after wrong turn after wrong turn.

 

There were plenty of conflicts without bringing in How the Grimm Turns. Nick and his battle between cop and Grimm for one.

 

I have to side-eye Tulloch.  Sounds like she wanted a bigger role on Grimm.  She was tolerable when she appeared for five minutes and then, left Nick and Monroe to do some Grimm work.  Now, the unhealthy relationship that she wanted is ruining the show and is sucking all the energy and focus from it.  The conflict of the show should have centered around Nick and his Grimmness, not some conflict between him and his idiot girlfriend.

 

Ugh.  All this Juliette shit because Tulloch wants to be a special snowflake.  Each time she's on screen  with the other actors, the show grinds to a halt.  It's amazing to watch scenes with Nick, Monroe, Hank, and Rosalee and the chemistry and natural flow between the actors.  

 

They could have created havoc in the wesen world. Hell, they brought in the wesen council. How about if they did something against them?

 

Bring the Wesen Council and have some badass wesen take out Juliette.  If the writers are going to add superfluous stuff like the Wesen Council, use it.  Make sure her death scene is memorable and permanent.

 

Where are those Reapers?

[Fable]

Wow....reading through this thread is almost like Sleepy Hollow revisited! 

[Blue Plastic]

Yuck!  Will they really expect Nick to take Juliette back after all this?  Just ew!  Because if they do, it feels like they're expecting the audience to "take her back" in a way also.  And I can't speak for all of us, but I for one don't want her back.  I don't think I can see the character the same way ever again.  They have made her too hateful too quickly, too severely.  She went from realizing she was a new Hexenbiest to hating everybody and everything within just a few episodes.

 

Maybe if they had included a few scenes showing that the old Juliette is still in there somewhere, struggling to get out, I could buy it?  Maybe?  Even then it would be just a cop-out because no other Hexenbiest character has been portrayed as being a human with an uncontrollable nasty magical spirit forcing her to do things she doesn't want to.

 

I spend every episode just being angry because I'm pretty sure they're going to shove a tearful, remorseful Juliette back into Nick's arms at some point and it feels like a personal affront to ME!  All I want to see is a scene where Nick lops her head off at this point, frankly, because she seems irredeemable.

[chrisvee]

I wonder if Juliette is acting this way to force Nick to kill her because it does seem that she can't cone back from this. Although they may be turning her into Angel.

[Snarkette]

I think the problem is that the writers simply said: The WotW thing is getting old. Nick is generally accepted now as both a police officer and a Grimm in the Wesen community. The threats from local vigilante groups has been mitigated, how do we make things personal for him again?

 

Oh right: Juliette. Ex-girlfriend can have the greatest power to hurt and threaten because of her insider knowledge. She was dragged into his world unwillingly, exists under constant threat from his lifestyle, is always the outsider having no innate abilities. (Although both Wu and Hank do just fine in this world.)

 

So they say, let's turn her into a threat through no fault of his own and have Nick work through divided loyalties both to his long-time love interest and, oh is Coffee pregnant? We can complicate it even further. Let's make Coffee the mother of his child to further motivate the estrangement of Juliette.

 

Problem is that Juliette has both been poorly written to date and has a subpar actress. We don't care about her long time ill use by Nick & Co so her journey (or in this case, inexplicable turn-on-a-dime) falls flat. 

 

It's really easy to see why the writers went this direction as well as the hamfisted reality of how they and Tulloch brought it to the screen.

 

Die, Juliette, die.

[spaulding]

It seems Bitsie has overestimated her acting chops, and the people who run the show are too enamored of her to see what's in front of their eyes.

 

I have no idea why the writers or the showrunnerse are in love with Tulloch.  She's far from being a character people love to hate.  Watching her is like being in a coma.  However, I will say that I am enamored with Rosalee.  She could potentially have an interesting story arc if this show wasn't being dragged down by Tulloch's dead eyes and her idiotic, rampaging character. 

 

Yes, as I said, this is Sleepy Hollow revisited, and except for Nick having an awesome female sidekick, is almost the same plot. If only they'd end it the same way. But in that situation the showrunner kept trying to snowflake the redhead left and right while the fans all screamed about it, and was totally fine with watching the ratings tank because of it.

 

I thought that the writers and showrunners listened to the Grimm fandom.  That's why that terrible voice-over was deleted at the beginning of S2 and why there's always Shirtless Renard. 

 

I guess they don't care now if they continue to force Juliette down our throats. 

 

Yuck!  Will they really expect Nick to take Juliette back after all this?  Just ew!  Because if they do, it feels like they're expecting the audience to "take her back" in a way also.

 

Juliette is a horrible character, but she is also impacting the characterization of Nick, the badass Grimm.  I don't see Nick as tortured over Juliette; he's just whiny and emo because of what happened to her.  If he takes her back after all the shit she pulled, I will throw my TV out the window.  Nick will officially be some beta male. 

 

I didn't watch the Jack episode yet, but I saw the scene where Nick in on the phone--again--to try to get a hold of Juliette.  He tells Hank that "she's done with him."  Are you freakin' kidding me?  She burns the Grimmebago, and she's done with him.  Ugh.

 

How can Nick instill fear in the bad wesens when he left his stones on the floor?  How can any wesen get scared and yell "Grimm!" when they look at him in the eyes? 

 

Move on, Nick.  If your Aunt Marie had the stones to leave her fiance to raise you, you can chop off Juliette's head while the Grimm fandom cheers you on.

 

I think the problem is that the writers simply said: The WotW thing is getting old. Nick is generally accepted now as both a police officer and a Grimm in the Wesen community. The threats from local vigilante groups has been mitigated, how do we make things personal for him again?

 

I love the WOTW procedural.  The writers were able to add a fresh touch with Teresa, or they could have fleshed out the potential storylines that they continually drop. 

 

Rather than work on the unfinished stuff, they open up a story line that gets worse and worse with each episode. I'll bet they were patting themselves on the back with how they were going to make Juliette this villain and how cool it would be. Bitsie was probably doing cartwheels. Like, finally she gets some action as well.

 

I haven't watched Sleepy Hollow, but the same thing happened with How I Met Your Mother.  By the end, it was a horrible show with horrible people.  The fans of the show didn't want the Mother to finally appear and then, die.  The showrunners did it because it was their vision and because they didn't care if the people who watched the show hated it. 

 

There was an uproar over the finale, but the showrunners still dug in their heels and defended the ending and blamed the fans of the show for not understanding their vision.  CBS made the showrunners put together an alternate, happier, and better ending because it would have lost money in DVD/blu ray sales.  Plus, the showrunners lost their spin-off.

 

These showrunners and writers have to have the stones to maintain their audience.  Dan Harmon, the creator of Community, ripped apart the potential Jeff/Britta pairing because it wasn't working, and the show survived.  Many shows have survived the loss of a character.  This show will survive Juliette's violent death by the Reapers or the Wesen Council.

Edited May 2, 2015 by spaulding

[ShadowFacts]

 

How can Nick instill fear in the bad wesens when he left his stones on the floor?  How can any wesen get scared and yell "Grimm!" when they look at him in the eyes?

I don't think the two hookers this week seemed freaked out about his Grimmness at all.  I can't remember, but did the boy scout people from "Iron Hans" get a look in his eyes and get scared?  Are the writers trying to show that Juliette has somewhat affected his badass self?

[evilmindatwork]

Wow....reading through this thread is almost like Sleepy Hollow revisited! 

For real. Only a few months ago I complimented the Grimm writer's handling of Juliette compared to Sleepy Hollow's handling of Katrina. Ugh! I've actually not been watching over the last couple of weeks because of the hexenbiest storyline. I find it super annoying and I am actually one of the people who liked Juliette. I don't see how she can be redeemed at this point. Each direction the writers can possibly take with this character seems like a plot I don't really want to watch. 

[blueray]

I don't think the two hookers this week seemed freaked out about his Grimmness at all.  I can't remember, but did the boy scout people from "Iron Hans" get a look in his eyes and get scared?  Are the writers trying to show that Juliette has somewhat affected his badass self?

Well the one hooker was dead. But the other one Nick told her and she wasn't woged that the time. However, she was to busy being upset about her roommate. Also random but I thought at first when Wu said "let her go" he was talking to the roommate. And I was like that's a horrible thing to say to someone who lost a friend, just let her go. Then I of course realized he was talking to Nick lol.

 

As for the Iron Han people they didn't seem to care one way or the other.

[jhlipton]

A couple of major differences between Juliette and Katrina:

1) There's no racial component: all of the characters on SH that were given diminished time were black, all the ones with increased time were white.
 
2) It wasn't just fans who hated Katrina -- everyone, from professional reviewers to bloggers to.. everyone hated her.
 
3) Both the show-runner and Katia Winters said some pretty stupid things about the fans.

[evilmindatwork]

 

 

I just don't see the same thing happening here. I see the showrunners and David G. just thinking Bitsie is awesome no matter how the fans react. The worst thing showrunners can do is say the fans just don't get it. As if we're all idiots and he's a creative genius, so we should just see things his way. These are the ones I want to see fail. 

 

I see them expanding her role. I am predicting a redemption arc for sure, since they are also taking out billboards about how she's not herself, poor thing. They're hoping this whole evil arc will slip our minds, as they've hoped with all of the other things they let drop to the pavement, and we'll say, "Oh, Juliette! I've missed you! I love you so much! Come here and give me a hug, you sweet girl!" 

 

And in a great effort of tell don't show, that this show does so well, we'll be told by every character how we should forgive her because "She wasn't herself." They will use the magic out clause, and it will be just as disastrous as Evil!Juliette!

 I feel like the Grimm fan base is pretty evenly divided between those who like Juliette and those who are seriously annoyed by her though? So, it's a slightly different situation? I really enjoyed Nick and Juliette before this plot arc.

Edited May 3, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[OtterMommy]

 I feel like the Grimm fan base is pretty evenly divided between those who like Juliette and those who are seriously annoyed by her though? So, it's a slightly different situation? I really enjoyed Nick and Juliette before this plot arc.

 

I don't think they are quite divided anymore.  I think, before the hexembiest situation, it was pretty evenly divided between those who liked Juliette and those who didn't (or were just bored with her).  Now, I think the tide has turned so that the majority of people just don't like her--I'm basing this on what I see on their FB posts (the easiest place to see a lot of opinions at once--and it probably has more people participating in the discussion than anywhere else).  I would say maybe 10% or so of the comments about Juliette now are positive, while it used to be running at least about 50%.

[icewolf]

I feel like the Grimm fan base is pretty evenly divided between those who like Juliette and those who are seriously annoyed by her though? So, it's a slightly different situation? I really enjoyed Nick and Juliette before this plot arc.

(Posted this in the ratings topic)

It is the awful dragged out Juliette Hexenbiest storyline that is harming the ratings. The last time the show had over 5 million viewers was the awesome Wesenrein two parter, and it has been steadily falling the more they focused on HexenJuliette.

Juliette haters HATE that she is being given so much screentime. Juliette fans hate that the writers are turning her so unlikeable and having her do so many terrible things. The people that are watching for the case of the week plots are probably annoyed at all the soap opera. All this is a recipe for disaster.

It is way too late to fix it now since they are done filming for the season. I just hope the writers realized how badly they have screwed up the second half of this season and make changes to the show. They must be thanking the stars for the early renewal.

[evilmindatwork]

Juliette haters HATE that she is being given so much screentime. Juliette fans hate that the writers are turning her so unlikeable and having her do so many terrible things. The people that are watching for the case of the week plots are probably annoyed at all the soap opera. All this is a recipe for disaster.

 

I feel like you've summarized the situation very well. I have been loyal to Grimm even though I hate all the Royal stuff. I veer between liking and being neutral to Juliette but I haven't watched the last 3 episodes yet because I think the soapiness will really annoy me.