S05.E22: Reunion Part 3

[motorcitymom65]

I don't know what any of the other cast members have to offer if Brandi is fired. Most of their storylines revolve around Brandi. 90% of blogs and forums are people talking about Brandi.    The percent is about Kim, her behavior and how she treats the other cast members.   Without them, there is so many times it will be entertaining to see Yolanda's frig.

            If Brandi is fired, it will probably be more due to her and Jeff Lewis's punking of Andy on WWHL.    They got him good.

There will be plenty to offer. We can only comment on what Bravo shows us, and most of it is on the cutting room floor. We talked about all kinds of other stuff before she came and we will talk about all kinds of other stuff after she is gone. 

[WireWrap]

Yes every single person has to deal with outside forces and no one ever really has to get through life in a vacuum now do they? I think the disagreement really lies in the fact that I don't truly believe that Kim has the support she needs in order to truly get well. I think she has positive people that would be able to but I also believe that she has really significant contributors to the opposite as well. My sympathy comes from the fact that yes even though people have to struggle with life all day long and for a lifetime. Given, no real shocker there, a persons quality of life can be affected by those around them. If Kim is trying to use her energy trying to beat her addiction then she has that much less available to deal with the negatives life throws our way and even less energy to deal with family that she doesn't trust but love. I do agree with Brandi about the fact that Kyle sabotages Kim's recovery. Yes Kyle affects Kim. Geez Louise. That's her sister for crying out loud. Nobody is saying Kyle is the wizard behind the curtain but for crying out loud her actions do affect Kim. Trust, love, support, lack of, judgment, criticism. That's what's meant when people put Kyle in a position of responsibility in this. It's not rocket science and if someone you love trust and count on continues to do things that counter what they say to you well that's a whole other challenge to overcome emotionally. I think Kyle hurts Kim by claiming one thing but allowing her resentments to do another. I'm not putting everything on Kyle but God almighty I have to at least give Kim that. I also believe that Kyle's been pulling that shit on Kim since they were young and what once was just material for sibling rivalry and "issues" that cause tense family functions has become a very serious detail in the challenges of battling Kim's addiction. Not shifting blaming just acknowledging what I believe are relevant details in all this.

Well in these newer generations of child actors there has been less carnage thank God so you're right but that's only because they had the cautionary tales of the "Child Actors of the 60's, 70's and especially 80's" to finally get a handle on things.

Wait, Kyle does thing to hurt Kim, how about Kim does things to hurt Kyle on purpose as well. Theirs is not a 1 way street, it goes back and forth between them and just because Kim is an addict does not mean her nasty, mean behaviors toward Kyle are made less than Kyle's behavior. Addiction is not a free pass to act like an ass towards family. Coddling and/or excusing Kim's nasty behavior is not helping her and never has, hence her several decades long addiction issues. They need to call her out on her behavior and stop covering it up.

 

We have absolutely no idea that Kim suffered any form of abuse as a child, none. It is just as possible that she became an addict because she was unsuccessful as a adult actor or she just like the pretty colors she saw when she was high.

[pbutler111]

Without them, there is so many times it will be entertaining to see Yolanda's frig.

 

Say what now???

[WireWrap]

I don't know what any of the other cast members have to offer if Brandi is fired. Most of their storylines revolve around Brandi. 90% of blogs and forums are people talking about Brandi.    The percent is about Kim, her behavior and how she treats the other cast members.   Without them, there is so many times it will be entertaining to see Yolanda's frig.

            If Brandi is fired, it will probably be more due to her and Jeff Lewis's punking of Andy on WWHL.    They got him good.

Production edits the footage around what they want to show and the cast/HWs blog about that. Brandi is easily replaceable, they already have LisaR who is unafraid to bring drama, has the house porn, the $$$ and on top of that, she has a family that will film with her.

 

 

Oh Kimmie.   Being on Dr. Phil's show is no substitute for treatment.  

 

But it is a good forum for trying to salvage the situation and spin your sobriety (except for this bitty slip) story.

ITA, this is nothing more than an attempt at damage control. I don't think most are going to fall for it though.

[Stinamaia]

Yes every single person has to deal with outside forces and no one ever really has to get through life in a vacuum now do they? I think the disagreement really lies in the fact that I don't truly believe that Kim has the support she needs in order to truly get well. I think she has positive people that would be able to but I also believe that she has really significant contributors to the opposite as well. My sympathy comes from the fact that yes even though people have to struggle with life all day long and for a lifetime. Given, no real shocker there, a persons quality of life can be affected by those around them. If Kim is trying to use her energy trying to beat her addiction then she has that much less available to deal with the negatives life throws our way and even less energy to deal with family that she doesn't trust but love. I do agree with Brandi about the fact that Kyle sabotages Kim's recovery. Yes Kyle affects Kim. Geez Louise. That's her sister for crying out loud. Nobody is saying Kyle is the wizard behind the curtain but for crying out loud her actions do affect Kim. Trust, love, support, lack of, judgment, criticism. That's what's meant when people put Kyle in a position of responsibility in this. It's not rocket science and if someone you love trust and count on continues to do things that counter what they say to you well that's a whole other challenge to overcome emotionally. I think Kyle hurts Kim by claiming one thing but allowing her resentments to do another. I'm not putting everything on Kyle but God almighty I have to at least give Kim that. I also believe that Kyle's been pulling that shit on Kim since they were young and what once was just material for sibling rivalry and "issues" that cause tense family functions has become a very serious detail in the challenges of battling Kim's addiction. Not shifting blaming just acknowledging what I believe are relevant details in all this.

Well in these newer generations of child actors there has been less carnage thank God so you're right but that's only because they had the cautionary tales of the "Child Actors of the 60's, 70's and especially 80's" to finally get a handle on things.

I don't know how Kyle acts toward Kim, but the part I bolded sounds a lot like enabling to me.  There can't be lack of criticism from loved ones.  There can't be support for continuing to use, and they can't let the addict run their story, i.e. trust.

 

Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying completely.  If so, apologies.

 

I read an interview of Demi Lavato recently where she credits her boyfriend, Wilmer Valderrama for being a catalyst for her sobriety.  She said that when she was using, he broke up with her saying I can't be around you when you are like this.  Evidently this happened more than once.  It made her realize she really was an addict and needed help.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Stinamaia

[Stinamaia]

On point. IA.

 

Some people have great memories of their childhood, others don't. Some people faced situations growing up that deeply affected them, others didn't let it affect them at all. There is that gray area in between, of course. There are kids that grow up with some questionable parents, but off to college they go and end up having a great life. Other kids have it made growing up, but they piss it all away. Who knows what happened to Kim, or didn't happen to Kim. Whatever the issue may be, hopefully she will one day face the demon that haunts her and she can live a healthy, clean life.

 

Recalling two scenes with Kim - chasing J.R. and going to Brandi's to watch television. I thought she seemed to be doing great. I can't recall anything prior to Poker Night where I thought Kim may have been high. Then again, I'd have to watch those episodes again.

You are right, imo.  There's no straight line between childhood trauma and adult dysfunction.  I took a test that quantifies childhood trauma, and came out at a 5 or 6 depending on how to interpret one of the questions.  Lo and behold, that score puts me in a category for being 30 times more at risk for suicide than the average joe.  I was shocked.  Even at the worst times in my life, I haven't contemplated suicide.  Maybe I've thought more about suicide than the average person; I don't know.   But now in the second half of my life, I can't imagine suicide unless there is a catastrophic incident causing famine, etc. or a terminal illness that involves unbearable pain.  I think of myself as a very fortunate, happy person.  My brother is the same.  We have these shared memories and sometimes I check with him -- did that really happen.  Reassures me I'm not imagining things.  

 

I just think we had something we were born with -- DNA, brain chemistry, whatever -- that didn't let us be profoundly affected.  There are studies showing that a significant percentage of children are not affected by bad parenting or good parenting either.   There is another category of children to whom parenting is very significant.  Reading this helped me understand that even people whose childhoods seem great to me have troubles relating to their childhoods.  This is just one of the ways I count myself fortunate.

 

Another way is that apparently I don't get the kick out of drugs that other people do.   I don't like the feeling of being drunk or high or out of it.  Lucky me.  I've never been able to turn to drugs to make me feel good. Others aren't so fortunate.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Stinamaia

[pbutler111]

Anyone who's had a family member who's an addict can tell you that trust, love, support, lack of judgment and criticism don't mean a thing in the face of the addiction. An addict doesn't care if you love them; they'll exploit your love and trust; they'll use your support to enable their habit; they'll take your lack of judgment and criticism as silent confirmation that their addiction isn't that big a deal.  If Kyle seems worn out by Kim and "non-supportive" of her, it's probably because she's been living with this shit for decades, and she's heard it all before and knows it's all bullshit. Then, to make matters worse, someone like Brandi Glanville decides to interfere  in something she knows nothing about, for her own selfish reasons, and her addict sister jumps on that floating hootenanny because it further enables her behavior and makes the "good" sister look like a monster in the process.  I don't fault Kyle for being angry and disgusted with her sister; I salute her for not having tied a pork chop to Kim's neck and locked her in a room with her killer dog long ago.

[Higgins]

There is a huge difference between giving love and support versus enabling. Kim wants to be enabled. She is so angry when telling Kyle to leave her alone, to tend to her own family, but then she demands that Kyle be there for her. Mixed messages.

 

I don't think Kim has ever said exactly what it is she wants from Kyle, that she supposedly gets from Kathy. I don't even think Kathy gives Kim anything different, it is just that Kim loves to play one sister against the other.

 

I would receive that very comment when dealing with my parent's cancer or other issues affecting myself or my family. To answer your question, there are plenty of people who just cannot handle devastating news or dealing with a loved one who is dying. They fall apart, they become depressed, they are in denial sometimes, there are many reactions I could list. Not everyone is woven from the same cloth. It is also not black and white. Some people could fall apart at devastating news, but find the will and the strength within to cope. Others could be strong at first, and then little by little find that they cannot handle a particular situation anymore. It is not a weakness, in my view. Just people being human.

 

 

With Kim, her overall issue was denial. I think the women looked upon Kim as the addict that she was, not the person Kim proclaimed to be: sober for three years. If Kim had been sober for three years, their approach may have been different for poker night. If there is one thing that I learned from the people in my life who are/were addicts, when you are around them, you know all their dirty secrets and you know when they aren't sober. On television, we don't see all of Kim's dirty secrets. There are likely more instances of Kim's addiction that we didn't get to see this season.

 

As far as not engaging, isn't that what LisaR did after Kim kicked her in the limo? Many people wouldn't take that lightly or ignore it.

I can tell you from personal experience that the comment You are strong, I could never do it or stay strong when dealing with a life threatening illness isn't helpful. It is an empty phrase. You don't know what you would do and if your child, or you or someone else you love is in this situation, the only way out is through and sometimes denial is a healthy way to get through it. You listen to your medical team and take one day at a time and some days you aren't so strong. So, If someday you think about saying this empty phrase to someone, don't. Just offer your support.

 

 

But there is an alternative and that is falling apart, depression, anxiety, avoidance- there are many people who do not have the strength to get through such hardships and I, for one, admire those who do. As a psychologist, I see this everyday. There are people who can summon the strength they need for themselves and for those who depend on them and there are others who run away or succumb without a fight. It happens and it happens a lot. I am happy that you are one of those who is strong and fights and I hope everything is well in your family now.

On topic- I actually spoke with someone who works on the show last night and he said that Brandi is gone, that it's the same old stuff over and over with her and they've lost interest. They are on the fence with Kim because they are afraid that she will be completely lost without the show (my guess is the truth is that they are wanting to film the aftermath of the not!relapse and arrest).

Most people do not run away. It is a rare sort who would run away from a family member battling cancer. So, the people who say they could never be so strong, most likely would. It just makes it more frightening to hear that.

[LeLalique]

Oh Kimmie.   Being on Dr. Phil's show is no substitute for treatment.  

 

But it is a good forum for trying to salvage the situation and spin your sobriety (except for this bitty slip) story.

Not to mention making a paycheck off the interview.

[Mya Stone]

This is a SUPER touchy subject. Everyone brings their own lives to the table. I, personally, appreciate the amount of humility and depth you all have shown when discussing Kim and addiction/abuse/enabling issues. I hope we can all remain adults and civilly discuss these very personal matters with the proper respect and understanding required. Both Lis and I have allowed you guys to get far more personal than other forums. Please respect each other. 

 

Again, I will repeat: everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It's what makes the world go round. That's what this board is full of - personal opinions.

 

If you feel taller, it's most likely because you're on a soap box and should probably step down from it. 

[film noire]

This is a SUPER touchy subject. Everyone brings their own lives to the table. I, personally, appreciate the amount of humility and depth you all have shown when discussing Kim and addiction/abuse/enabling issues. I hope we can all remain adults and civilly discuss these very personal matters with the proper respect and understanding required. Both Lis and I have allowed you guys to get far more personal than other forums. Please respect each other. 

 

Again, I will repeat: everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It's what makes the world go round. That's what this board is full of - personal opinions.

 

If you feel taller, it's most likely because you're on a soap box and should probably step down from it. 

This has turned into the most extraordinary thread, in no small part due to your generous modding hand,  Mya and Lisin, in allowing the conversation to turn into something larger than the usual housewife discussion -- people sharing stories, insights, jokes -- thanks for that, and for giving the thread (and us) the space to have this unexpected and wonderful conversation. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by film noire

[Giselle]

If you feel taller, it's most likely because you're on a soap box and should probably step down from it. 

 

I'll step down but I'm keeping my virtual bull horn in the form of CAPS LOCK, and BOLD so I can be heard. ;-)

 

You guys are doing a great job. Thanks for allowing us some leeway.  xoxo

[jaync]

At the rate her cheeks are expanding, it already appears they're eating the nose right off of her helium balloon face.

As a famous mactician once said, "like a nose between two ass cheeks".

 

 

[Giselle]

As a famous mactician once said, "like a nose between two ass cheeks".

 

Appropriate take on Brandy's appearance because she has been kissing Lisa's ass all season. You are what you eat.

[Sincerely Yours]

Wait, Kyle does thing to hurt Kim, how about Kim does things to hurt Kyle on purpose as well. Theirs is not a 1 way street, it goes back and forth between them and just because Kim is an addict does not mean her nasty, mean behaviors toward Kyle are made less than Kyle's behavior. Addiction is not a free pass to act like an ass towards family. Coddling and/or excusing Kim's nasty behavior is not helping her and never has, hence her several decades long addiction issues. They need to call her out on her behavior and stop covering it up.

 

We have absolutely no idea that Kim suffered any form of abuse as a child, none. It is just as possible that she became an addict because she was unsuccessful as a adult actor or she just like the pretty colors she saw when she was high.

I'm talking about in terms of it affecting Kim's battle with sobriety. They are bitches to one another on the sister tip. No denying that. That's their dynamic and I think it's been their dynamic before Kim started her battle which is why I think Kyle doesn't understand that it's no longer just a sister dysfunctional dynamic. That very complicated sister issue between them since forever has an impact on Kim's battle with sobriety as well, that's all. I don't think it's fair to gloss over that very relevant detail. I think it makes sense in the big scheme of things. I mean in terms of understanding in a more balanced perspective.

[Sincerely Yours]

I don't know how Kyle acts toward Kim, but the part I bolded sounds a lot like enabling to me.  There can't be lack of criticism from loved ones.  There can't be support for continuing to use, and they can't let the addict run their story, i.e. trust.

 

Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying completely.  If so, apologies.

 

I read an interview of Demi Lavato recently where she credits her boyfriend, Wilmer Valderrama for being a catalyst for her sobriety.  She said that when she was using, he broke up with her saying I can't be around you when you are like this.  Evidently this happened more than once.  It made her realize she really was an addict and needed help.

I guess where my message gets lost in translation is the way the criticism and judgment are handed out. I think if Kyle was a healthy source of holding Kim accountable, calling her out, acknowledging issues then yeah of course sugar coating shit isn't the way to go but that's I don't believe that's the route Kyle took.  I'm of the belief that Kyle's swept things under the rug, absolutely but has also lashed out as well. Look, obviously being an enabler is pretty frowned upon and considered a huge disservice. Well Kyle's been doing it for years so I'm expressing my judgment of the damage she contributed when she was enabling. I mean it's pretty clear Kyle's been an enabler but that's not a big deal now because she's trying not to be anymore? Apparently enablers are not viewed much better than the addict because it does more harm than good to the addict and yet Kyle's all of a sudden absolved for all the time she's been contributing to the problem as enabler because.......why? I'm just pointing out that the idea that Kyle has nothing what so ever to do with Kim, her struggles, her battle, her challenges, her recovery, her failures after all these years of being a huge enabler leaves me scratching my head.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

I'm talking about in terms of it affecting Kim's battle with sobriety. They are bitches to one another on the sister tip. No denying that. That's their dynamic and I think it's been their dynamic before Kim started her battle which is why I think Kyle doesn't understand that it's no longer just a sister dysfunctional dynamic. That very complicated sister issue between them since forever has an impact on Kim's battle with sobriety as well, that's all. I don't think it's fair to gloss over that very relevant detail. I think it makes sense in the big scheme of things. I mean in terms of understanding in a more balanced perspective.

I have had issues with my own sister that started in our childhood but to place any blame on her now at this stage of my life is nothing more than an excuse IMO. Why must people look to blame anyone other than the addict for their choice to start then continue abusing alcohol/drugs? There is just as much probability that Kim started using drugs/alcohol to get high because she wanted to be a part of the "in crowd", the "cool kids", because she was no longer in demand as an actor and not because something terrible happened to her.

[WireWrap]

I guess where my message gets lost in translation is the way the criticism and judgment are handed out. I think if Kyle was a healthy source of holding Kim accountable, calling her out, acknowledging issues then yeah of course sugar coating shit isn't the way to go but that's I don't believe that's the route Kyle took.  I'm of the belief that Kyle's swept things under the rug, absolutely but has also lashed out as well. Look, obviously being an enabler is pretty frowned upon and considered a huge disservice. Well Kyle's been doing it for years so I'm expressing my judgment of the damage she contributed when she was enabling. I mean it's pretty clear Kyle's been an enabler but that's not a big deal now because she's trying not to be anymore? Apparently enablers are not viewed much better than the addict because it does more harm than good to the addict and yet Kyle's all of a sudden absolved for all the time she's been contributing to the problem as enabler because.......why? I'm just pointing out that the idea the Kyle has nothing what so ever to do with Kim, her struggles, her battle, her challenges, her recovery, her failures after all these years of being a huge enabler leaves me scratching my head.

IMO, just mine, Kyle is a typical family member of an addict, torn between wanting to help/rescue their loved one from addiction and repulsed by the addicts choice to continue using and anger at the damage the addict does to everyone around them. Also, there were Kim's children that needed to be factored into the Kim/Kyle relationship that prevented Kyle from taking a stronger stance with Kim. We are now seeing Kyle begin to back away, they may be baby steps but it is happening.  Some here post that traditional rehab does not work well for some addicts, like Kim, what makes anyone think that traditional methods for family members dealing with those addicts work any better? Kyle is human and for every step forward, there are 2 steps back.

[Sincerely Yours]

I have had issues with my own sister that started in our childhood but to place any blame on her now at this stage of my life is nothing more than an excuse IMO. Why must people look to blame anyone other than the addict for their choice to start then continue abusing alcohol/drugs? There is just as much probability that Kim started using drugs/alcohol to get high because she wanted to be a part of the "in crowd", the "cool kids", because she was no longer in demand as an actor and not because something terrible happened to her.

Well I guess when it's constantly looked at as "who's to blame" and not an overview of all the contributors, contributions and toxic details that went into the tragic outcome of an addicts life then yeah I guess a look at the attempted understanding may seem overblown. To me the how doesn't matter. Those who want to contribute positivity and support I hope continue to do so and those that feel that her circumstances, her decisions and her lacking contributions to her own sobriety are too much to tolerate should  exit stage left. At this point in her struggle it's crucial that those who have nothing healthy to offer steer away from the storm and those that can dedicate healthy support do just that. Here's hoping for that course of action. Stretch, I know.

[thewhiteowl]

Sure Kyle has enabled and that's bad but if Kim were not an addict she would not have been enabling. Chicken or egg?

[WireWrap]

Well I guess when it's constantly looked at as "who's to blame" and not an overview of all the contributors, contributions and toxic details that went into the tragic outcome of an addicts life then yeah I guess a look at the attempted understanding may seem overblown. To me the how doesn't matter. Those who want to contribute positivity and support I hope continue to do so and those that feel that her circumstances, her decisions and her lacking contributions to her own sobriety are too much to tolerate should  exit stage left. At this point in her struggle it's crucial that those who have nothing healthy to offer steer away from the storm and those that can dedicate healthy support do just that. Here's hoping for that course of action. Stretch, I know.

It's simple, Kim is to blame! Not her mother, her father, her sisters, her ex's, her kids, her nieces/nephews, her dog, her landlord, her first grade teacher, her first whatever, not even the first person to give her alcohol or drugs, just Kim. It is also no one else's responsibility or duty to get Kim sober/clean, it is Kim's and Kim's decision to do it or not. Their sister dynamic has been affected by Kim's choice to get drunk/high, not because of typical sibling rivalry or petty sibling spats. Kim's addictions have poisoned every aspect of the lives of everyone that loves or cares about her.

[Sincerely Yours]

IMO, just mine, Kyle is a typical family member of an addict, torn between wanting to help/rescue their loved one from addiction and repulsed by the addicts choice to continue using and anger at the damage the addict does to everyone around them. Also, there were Kim's children that needed to be factored into the Kim/Kyle relationship that prevented Kyle from taking a stronger stance with Kim. We are now seeing Kyle begin to back away, they may be baby steps but it is happening.  Some here post that traditional rehab does not work well for some addicts, like Kim, what makes anyone think that traditional methods for family members dealing with those addicts work any better? Kyle is human and for every step forward, there are 2 steps back.

I think I've mentioned this before but I'm the sister and daughter of alcoholic/drug addicts. I would never justify any of my ugly behavior towards either of them by blaming the angst of living or dealing with an addict. I may have explained it but I would have never expected to be absolved.  As I matured and understood the reality of it all lead me to a very peaceful outlook on our family. I didn't let the addiction wash out what I knew to be good about them. I separated the disease from the person and even sober my sister was a piece of work same as my mother but it would have been easy to magnify those negative traits by incorporating their addictions but I didn't. My mother and sister were pains in the asses, bitches at time and nasty at times. So was I. We had family feuds and the such but I also applied what I loved about them. I also kept focus of what I loved about them and kept it in perspective. The addiction didn't make the bad parts of them worse or the good parts of them better. I didn't let the addiction tarnish the real them. The addiction stood separate and attempts were made to handle the addictions through tough love, rehab, cutting ties, etc. etc. but at the end of the day In my mind I kept the addiction from tainting the real people who were my family. I owed them that and I owed myself that because win lose or draw I refused to let addiction take my family away in that way. If it was going to devour them physically I would be damned if it took away how they were in my heart.

 

The physical details were a struggle and my mother kicked the drug part but still drank which still make a big difference and my sister also kicked it only to slip and now lives with a bottle of wine every few days but hey. It's better than the crackhead, living in hallways, doing any and everything to get a fix addict she used to be. She has a home, lives a comfortable life and gets along just fine. Still a bitch when she wants to be but I didn't let the addiction take me to a place where I couldn't find my way back to now in the sense of sisterly love and devotion. It was hard but what else is there. Angst, regret? It is what it is and I see in the Richard sisters the same devotion I felt with my family and if they don't figure out how to hold on to the bond while keeping the ugly of addiction from seeping into the core of their hearts then they are always going to be living with emotional unrest and never peace. There is a way they just can't see it.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Sincerely Yours]

Sure Kyle has enabled and that's bad but if Kim were not an addict she would not have been enabling. Chicken or egg?

Doesn't matter. The reality is both the chicken and egg exist. In connection with each other.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

I think I've mentioned this before but I'm the sister and daughter of alcoholic/drug addicts. I would never justify any ugly behavior towards either of them by blaming the angst of living or dealing with an addict. As I matured and understood the reality of it all lead me to a very peaceful outlook on our family. I didn't let the addiction wash out what I knew to be good about them. I separated the disease from the person and even sober my sister was a piece of work same as my mother but it would have been easy to magnify those negative traits by incorporating their addictions but I didn't. My mother and sister were pains in the asses, bitches at time and nasty at times. So was I. We had family feuds and the such but I also applied what I loved about them. I also kept focus of what I loved about them and kept it in perspective. The addiction didn't make the bad parts of them worse or the good parts of them better. I didn't let the addiction tarnish the real them. The addiction stood separate and attempts were made to handle the addictions through tough love, rehab, cutting ties, etc. etc. but at the end of the day I kept the addiction from tainting the real people who were my family. I owed them that and I owed myself that because win lose or draw I refused to let addiction take my family away in that way.

 

The physical details were a struggle and my mother kicked the drug part but still drank which still make a big difference and my sister also kicked it only to slip and now lives with a bottleofa wine every few days but hey. It's better than the crackhead, living in buildings, doing any and everything to get a fix addict she used to be. She has a home, lives a comfortable life and gets along just fine. Still a bitch when she wants to be but I didn't let the addiction take me to a place where I couldn't find my way back to now in the sense of sisterly love and devotion. It was hard but what else is there. Angst, regret? It is what it is and I see in the Richard sisters the same devotion I felt with my family and if they don't figure out how to hold on to the bond while keeping the ugly of addiction from seeping into the core then they are always going to be living with emotional unrest and never peace. There is a way they just can't see it.

Where and when has Kyle ever said that Kim was pure evil, that there was nothing loveable about her? When has Kyle turned her back completely on Kim? Even Kim disputes that claim, the only one that ever said that Kyle was not there for Kim was Brandi and I am not inclined to believe that liar! I have never heard either sister say they hate the other. Going by what we see between the sister kids, their relationships, I would say that no matter what, Kyle has been there for Kim when it mattered most.

[kassa]

I am sorry but Kyle wrote a book and she did not claim to have a chaotic childhood.

 

 

In the first season of the show (I think) Kyle awkwardly laughed as she explained how she was driving herself to work at a studio in Hollywood at 14 (?) without a license.   She didn't have to label that as neglectful parenting for me to see it as  neglectful parenting (at a minimum).   Both Kim and Kyle have spoken about being far away from home (including in Europe) without their parents.  Maybe their on-site tutor or whoever was serving as their guardian, but again... who does that?  If both kids are working, and both parents can't be there, maybe one needs to not take a job, don't you think?

 

Again, we're not talking about 15 year olds -- we're talking about young kids.  

[LIMOM]

With all due respect,Kyle seems to gloat and enjoy her status as the healthy sister, IMO.

During season one, she was incredibly vicious with her co-stars and sister.

When I look at Kim, I see a broken, fragile woman.

Kyle to me is an angry, passive aggressive individual.

Now she does have reasons to be angry at her sister however she is not a benevolent individual, IMO.

[Sincerely Yours]

It's simple, Kim is to blame! Not her mother, her father, her sisters, her ex's, her kids, her nieces/nephews, her dog, her landlord, her first grade teacher, her first whatever, not even the first person to give her alcohol or drugs, just Kim. It is also no one else's responsibility or duty to get Kim sober/clean, it is Kim's and Kim's decision to do it or not. Their sister dynamic has been affected by Kim's choice to get drunk/high, not because of typical sibling rivalry or petty sibling spats. Kim's addictions have poisoned every aspect of the lives of everyone that loves or cares about her.

That's one theory. Definitely a possibility.

Where and when has Kyle ever said that Kim was pure evil, that there was nothing loveable about her? When has Kyle turned her back completely on Kim? Even Kim disputes that claim, the only one that ever said that Kyle was not there for Kim was Brandi and I am not inclined to believe that liar! I have never heard either sister say they hate the other. Going by what we see between the sister kids, their relationships, I would say that no matter what, Kyle has been there for Kim when it mattered most.

Nowhere in the post that you quoted connects to how you responded so I'm confused as to where quoting my post came into play. Just curious.

With all due respect,Kyle seems to gloat and enjoy her status as the healthy sister, IMO.

During season one, she was incredibly vicious with her co-stars and sister.

When I look at Kim, I see a broken, fragile woman.

Kyle to me is an angry, passive aggressive individual.

Now she does have reasons to be angry at her sister however she is not a benevolent individual, IMO.

Here, Here!!! Love your one sentenced observations by the way.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Stinamaia]

I guess where my message gets lost in translation is the way the criticism and judgment are handed out. I think if Kyle was a healthy source of holding Kim accountable, calling her out, acknowledging issues then yeah of course sugar coating shit isn't the way to go but that's I don't believe that's the route Kyle took.  I'm of the belief that Kyle's swept things under the rug, absolutely but has also lashed out as well. Look, obviously being an enabler is pretty frowned upon and considered a huge disservice. Well Kyle's been doing it for years so I'm expressing my judgment of the damage she contributed when she was enabling. I mean it's pretty clear Kyle's been an enabler but that's not a big deal now because she's trying not to be anymore? Apparently enablers are not viewed much better than the addict because it does more harm than good to the addict and yet Kyle's all of a sudden absolved for all the time she's been contributing to the problem as enabler because.......why? I'm just pointing out that the idea that Kyle has nothing what so ever to do with Kim, her struggles, her battle, her challenges, her recovery, her failures after all these years of being a huge enabler leaves me scratching my head.

I agree with you and have said earlier that Kyle needs some help.  She can't control Kim's behavior; only her own behavior.   I also agree that Kyle probably has been an enabler and I don't think her enabling is only to help Kim, but also for her own and her family's images.  I don't see how Kyle can deal with it in a healthy manner unless she learns new techniques for dealing with the problem.  I know the "I'm the good one and you're the bad one" dynamic can be pretty toxic.  But as I say, I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship.  I only know that it's not good right now.

 

Well I guess when it's constantly looked at as "who's to blame" and not an overview of all the contributors, contributions and toxic details that went into the tragic outcome of an addicts life then yeah I guess a look at the attempted understanding may seem overblown. To me the how doesn't matter. Those who want to contribute positivity and support I hope continue to do so and those that feel that her circumstances, her decisions and her lacking contributions to her own sobriety are too much to tolerate should  exit stage left. At this point in her struggle it's crucial that those who have nothing healthy to offer steer away from the storm and those that can dedicate healthy support do just that. Here's hoping for that course of action. Stretch, I know.

Maybe nobody is to blame.  That's my take on it.   Kim is unfortunate enough to have used alcohol and apparently prescription pills and became addicted to them.  I don't think  it was her choice to become addicted to them.  I've used both, and I'm not addicted to either, but I don't think that was my conscious decision.  They don't do anything for me.  Sometimes things just start out as a good time and end up as a very bad thing.  I've dealt with a bunch of really good people who were addicts at the time I met them and watched them work through their issues.  I'm always amazed at the person who emerges and find I like them and certainly admire their battle. I wonder if I could do the same.

 

If only people knew when what they had to offer was healthy, that would be great.  Maybe the answer is to have some input from a professional before you approach a person with substance abuse issues.   I don't think that's any panacea either.  

 

Since you have dealt with this personally, I'd like to tell you a heartwarming story from the mother of a heroin addict that I heard her tell on NPR.  Her daughter was doing all the expected things in her home -- violence, stealing, chaos -- and the mother was advised about tough love and turning her back on her daughter, but the mother couldn't do that because she couldn't bear to lose contact with her daughter.  So, she made an agreement to meet her daughter once a week at a restaurant for lunch with the agreement that they would not discuss her addiction  and there would be no advice about how to live life.  The daughter surprised her mother over the years by keeping the appointments.  Sometimes the daughter looked very bad, but at least the mother knew her daughter had one good meal that week and knew she was alive.  After several years the daughter did get her feet under her and got treatment and is working on her sobriety.  

 

Hope this wasn't too long.

[LIMOM]

That's one theory. Definitely a possibility.

Nowhere in the post that you quoted connects to how you responded so I'm confused as to where quoting my post came into play. Just curious.

Here, Here!!! Love your one sentenced observations by the way.

I apologize but as you most likely guessed English is not my first language.

Thank you for the compliment☺️

[Sincerely Yours]

I agree with you and have said earlier that Kyle needs some help.  She can't control Kim's behavior; only her own behavior.   I also agree that Kyle probably has been an enabler and I don't think her enabling is only to help Kim, but also for her own and her family's images.  I don't see how Kyle can deal with it in a healthy manner unless she learns new techniques for dealing with the problem.  I know the "I'm the good one and you're the bad one" dynamic can be pretty toxic.  But as I say, I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship.  I only know that it's not good right now.

 

Maybe nobody is to blame.  That's my take on it.   Kim is unfortunate enough to have used alcohol and apparently prescription pills and became addicted to them.  I don't think  it was her choice to become addicted to them.  I've used both, and I'm not addicted to either, but I don't think that was my conscious decision.  They don't do anything for me.  Sometimes things just start out as a good time and end up as a very bad thing.  I've dealt with a bunch of really good people who were addicts at the time I met them and watched them work through their issues.  I'm always amazed at the person who emerges and find I like them and certainly admire their battle. I wonder if I could do the same.

 

If only people knew when what they had to offer was healthy, that would be great.  Maybe the answer is to have some input from a professional before you approach a person with substance abuse issues.   I don't think that's any panacea either.  

 

Since you have dealt with this personally, I'd like to tell you a heartwarming story from the mother of a heroin addict that I heard her tell on NPR.  Her daughter was doing all the expected things in her home -- violence, stealing, chaos -- and the mother was advised about tough love and turning her back on her daughter, but the mother couldn't do that because she couldn't bear to lose contact with her daughter.  So, she made an agreement to meet her daughter once a week at a restaurant for lunch with the agreement that they would not discuss her addiction  and there would be no advice about how to live life.  The daughter surprised her mother over the years by keeping the appointments.  Sometimes the daughter looked very bad, but at least the mother knew her daughter had one good meal that week and knew she was alive.  After several years the daughter did get her feet under her and got treatment and is working on her sobriety.  

 

Hope this wasn't too long.

Beautiful!!! My mother refused to let my sister spend the night. Even when she knew she was living in building hallways. Once in a blue moon she'd let her in to visit and sleep for a few hours but then she was woken, given some money and she already knew she had to move on. We also took in her baby since she was living in hallways with my niece from the day she was born to the day my mother took my niece in 4 weeks later when she found out. Stepping in when necessary doesn't hav to be about being held hostage to day in day out part of the addiction. I've seen it, I've done it so when I see Kyle frog crying all over the place like she's such a hostage and not seeing how much damage she is doing just grates on me.  So much effort on receiving pity and not enough on just putting some sort of healthy plan of action in place. And I say this because Kyle makes it obvious that if affects her life. Well then Kyle take control of your damn life. Same way Kim is expected to move mountains and single handedly beat her disease I don't see why Kyle can't throw on her wonder woman underoos as well and stop her own suffering. Seems to be the going advice for the Richard sisters. So Kyle have at it.  Ugggghhh.

[tulip555]

It's simple, Kim is to blame! Not her mother, her father, her sisters, her ex's, her kids, her nieces/nephews, her dog, her landlord, her first grade teacher, her first whatever, not even the first person to give her alcohol or drugs, just Kim. It is also no one else's responsibility or duty to get Kim sober/clean, it is Kim's and Kim's decision to do it or not. Their sister dynamic has been affected by Kim's choice to get drunk/high, not because of typical sibling rivalry or petty sibling spats. Kim's addictions have poisoned every aspect of the lives of everyone that loves or cares about her.

Absolutely on the money, WW

[becauseIsaidso]

I am filled with joy at the prospect of a brandi-less next season of BH!!!  Now if only kimmie would recognize and accept that achieving true (real, real life) sobriety is NOT best accomplished on a 'reality' show, she could actually be on the way to the first 10th of a step (hate to use that word because I am not talking about the AA 12 Step program) toward doing what is actually best for her private self rather than display the 'ongoing, heartfelt, desperate struggle' of the public kimmie. I am beginning to form an opinion that somehow kimmie has become unable to see anything in any terms other than how it plays out on TV....I still think she is a nasty, narcissistic, piece of work with a horribly overblown sense of entitlement....but she should at least be able to view her own life in terms of 'real' reality - as opposed to the TV version of reality.

 

Earlier on someone mentioned having a hard time believing LVP could have forgotten the slights/sins kyle committed against her/LVP, and I totally agree. I am thinking that LVP's 'forgive but don't forget' attitude with kyle is simply not as intense as that which she has for brandi....both of which, imo, are amply justified. It's only that kim's extreme behavior seemed to have pushed most of the other inter-cast problems/conflicts to the back burner.  Hopefully they will take center stage - along with Eileen and Lisar - in a new, brandiless, kimless season.

[Giselle]

I apologize but as you most likely guessed English is not my first language.

Thank you for the compliment☺️

 

Don't apologize! Your knowledge of English as a second language is probably far, far better than our knowledge and use of your language. I wish I spoke a second language.

 

I can only speak restaurant menu in Spanish, Vietnamese, Italian, and French!...you know...taco, enchilada, café su da, bun thit, linguini, limoncello, crepe suzette, pot au feu. ;-)

[mbutterfly]

Kim tells all to Dr. Phil!

http://www.eonline.com/news/648484/kim-richards-breaks-silence-on-arrest-the-whole-night-is-my-fault?cmpid=sn-111021-facebook-na-eonline

This has got to be some kind of a speed record from drunk tank to the Dr. Phil Show. 

[pbutler111]

This has got to be some kind of a speed record from drunk tank to the Dr. Phil Show.

 

He probably keeps a satellite production office there.

[mbutterfly]

It's simple, Kim is to blame! Not her mother, her father, her sisters, her ex's, her kids, her nieces/nephews, her dog, her landlord, her first grade teacher, her first whatever, not even the first person to give her alcohol or drugs, just Kim. It is also no one else's responsibility or duty to get Kim sober/clean, it is Kim's and Kim's decision to do it or not. Their sister dynamic has been affected by Kim's choice to get drunk/high, not because of typical sibling rivalry or petty sibling spats. Kim's addictions have poisoned every aspect of the lives of everyone that loves or cares about her.

I have known several people who were younger siblings of alcoholics. I've never known of a case where that younger sibling ever significantly contributed to the alcohol addiction. 

[Giselle]

He probably keeps a satellite production office there.

 

Gotta jump while the toddy is hot!

[zoeysmom]

In the first season of the show (I think) Kyle awkwardly laughed as she explained how she was driving herself to work at a studio in Hollywood at 14 (?) without a license.   She didn't have to label that as neglectful parenting for me to see it as  neglectful parenting (at a minimum).   Both Kim and Kyle have spoken about being far away from home (including in Europe) without their parents.  Maybe their on-site tutor or whoever was serving as their guardian, but again... who does that?  If both kids are working, and both parents can't be there, maybe one needs to not take a job, don't you think?

 

Again, we're not talking about 15 year olds -- we're talking about young kids.  

 I guess this is directed at me-I do recall Kyle saying she drove herself to the studio with grandma in the car.  Yes this is hideously inappropriate and I am guessing it is something Kyle didn't repeat as a parent.  I don't know if it is enough to render her parents unfit.  I also think there are times Kyle and Kim are too cute by far.  It is not as if one of them could roll onto the studio lot in the family truckster and report to work-they have to have a parent with them on set. 

 

I have no idea where this information about being far away without their parents including Europe came from.  I heard Kyle say the first time she went to Europe was London and it was for a role.  Never heard she went solo or it happened a lot. This type of thing happens with performing children's choruses, traveling Broadway shows and there are designated adults as it is logistically difficult to have 30 children and 30 parents.  My next door neighbor takes in a foreign exchange student every year -I guess I never thought about that as being a chaotic lifestyle.  Other people send their kids to boarding school. I took a look at Kim's IMDB and don't really see anything that filmed overseas. 

[pbutler111]

Earlier on someone mentioned having a hard time believing LVP could have forgotten the slights/sins kyle committed against her/LVP, and I totally agree. I am thinking that LVP's 'forgive but don't forget' attitude with kyle is simply not as intense as that which she has for brandi....both of which, imo, are amply justified.

 

I think Lisa and Ken both felt far more hurt and baffled and betrayed by Brandi's behavior toward them than Lisa felt about anything Kyle may have said or done. Some things are more easily forgiven than others, especially as I imagine Lisa probably received a far more sincere and mature apology from Kyle than Brandi could ever manage.

[Sincerely Yours]

I have known several people who were younger siblings of alcoholics. I've never known of a case where that younger sibling ever significantly contributed to the alcohol addiction. 

Even when they are a negative constant during the cycle of the addiction? Interesting Kim's life is so intrusive to Kyle's and yet Kyle's so far away from anything involving Kim's struggle and battle with addiction that Kyle isn't really a factor in Kim's battle? Kyle's involved in Kim's addiction only as a victim and someone that has been burdened by it but isn't involved in any way that affects Kim's struggles with it good or bad. That's some serious maneuvering on Kyle's part I tell ya.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[slitz]

It's simple, Kim is to blame! Not her mother, her father, her sisters, her ex's, her kids, her nieces/nephews, her dog, her landlord, her first grade teacher, her first whatever, not even the first person to give her alcohol or drugs, just Kim. It is also no one else's responsibility or duty to get Kim sober/clean, it is Kim's and Kim's decision to do it or not. Their sister dynamic has been affected by Kim's choice to get drunk/high, not because of typical sibling rivalry or petty sibling spats. Kim's addictions have poisoned every aspect of the lives of everyone that loves or cares about her.

 

If I could "like" this a million times I would.  This is a thing of beauty and you said what I was about to much better than I would have.

 

As my boyfriend would say, nobody is holding a gun to Kim's head and making her drink or take pills.  She is choosing to do this.  She is choosing this life.  SHE IS.  Not Kyle, not Kathy, not even Big Kathy.  Heck, in one of the articles I've read today about her sit down with Dr. (HA!) Phil, Kim even admits that she knew what she was doing last Thursday night.  She knew that she was choosing alcohol and any other substance she may have taken over being sober.  SHE CHOSE THIS.

[Giselle]

  Heck, in one of the articles I've read today about her sit down with Dr. (HA!) Phil, Kim even admits that she knew what she was doing last Thursday night.  She knew that she was choosing alcohol and any other substance she may have taken over being sober.  SHE CHOSE THIS.

 

But does she believe that in her heart of hearts or is she just saying what people want to hear so she can get this behind her as quickly as possible, and maybe save her job? Seeing the way she twists things after the fact to suit her view of reality doesn't give her any credibility at this point.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Giselle

[Stinamaia]

I think both of these women have a tendency to see themselves as victims.  It wasn't until I fully shed the idea that I was a victim in anyway whatsoever that I was able to have control over my emotions.   The simple phrase, "How did I contribute to this situation?" is enough to snap me back to looking at my own responsibility.  I think both women tend to assign blame, and I think when you are being blamed, it's really hard not to be defensive.   They are in a personal cycle that may just  keep cycling around.  I hope not.

[slitz]

Even when they are a negative constant during the cycle of the addiction? Interesting Kim's life is so intrusive to Kyle's and yet Kyle's so far away from anything involving Kim's struggle and battle with addiction that Kyle isn't really a factor in Kim's battle? Kyle's involved in Kim's addiction only as a victim and someone that has been burdened by it but isn't involved in any way that affects Kim's struggles with it good or bad. That's some serious maneuvering on Kyle's part I tell ya.

I have to admit, I'm struggling with your posts.  I am trying very hard to keep an open mind but it seems like what you're saying is that, no matter what Kim has done, Kyle is to blame for all of Kim's addictions and/or poor decisions.  I don't know, maybe I'm probably reading them wrong but as I mentioned above, the only person to blame for Kim's problems is Kim.

 

I think I've mentioned here before that my youngest brother and I do not have the greatest relationship.  We did not grow up together (different mothers), saw each other only every few years for most of our lives and with a 7 year age difference did not have a lot in common.  Then I moved to Florida to be closer to my father and family here.  When I first moved here, I lived with them for a little bit.  This did not go very well.  My brother has a lot of issues from his own childhood and suffers from PTSD.  Unfortunately, he used that as an excuse to get drunk and high all the time.  Money went missing from everyone's wallets, credit cards were stolen, no one could have alcohol in the house, etc.  And somehow, in his mind, I was to blame for all of this.  Somehow he felt that our parents (my father and step-mother, who is his mother) chose me over him.  One day, his mother came home to find that he had tried to hang himself - he was unsuccessful thank goodness.  After she was able to get him down and was holding him, he kept saying that it was my fault, that they (our parents) kept choosing me over him.

 

Now I will be the first person to admit that I am not perfect.  I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and have probably not always been the best sister to my youngest brother that I could have been.  But that does not mean that I am to blame, or share in the blame, for his drinking and taking drugs, stealing from the family, etc.  So perhaps it's because of my own personal experiences that I have a hard time with the blame that it seems people want to place on Kyle.  Kim made these choices.  My brother made his choices.  THEY made their choices.  Not Kyle, not me, not anyone else.  So if anyone is to blame, it's themselves.

But does she believe that in her heart of hearts or is she just saying what people want to hear so she can get this behind her as quickly as possible, and maybe save her job? Seeing the way she twists things after the fact to suit her view of reality doesn't give her any credibility at this point.

Oh I completely believe that she's saying this because she's afraid she's about to lose her job.  And she should be afraid.

[elainebenis]

In the first season of the show (I think) Kyle awkwardly laughed as she explained how she was driving herself to work at a studio in Hollywood at 14 (?) without a license.   She didn't have to label that as neglectful parenting for me to see it as  neglectful parenting (at a minimum).   Both Kim and Kyle have spoken about being far away from home (including in Europe) without their parents.  Maybe their on-site tutor or whoever was serving as their guardian, but again... who does that?  If both kids are working, and both parents can't be there, maybe one needs to not take a job, don't you think?

 

Again, we're not talking about 15 year olds -- we're talking about young kids.  

 

My parents allowed me to drive at age 14/15 around my hometown of BFE back in the 1970's. Not joyriding, but running errands, getting groceries, dropping younger sibs off, etc. as my mother was sick during this period. I knew plenty of other kids who drove underage as well. Times were different then. Cops looked the other way if you were behaving yourself and driving responsibly. Get caught behind the football stadium with a beer? They'd make you pour it out and send you on your way, assuming you weren't shitfaced or causing problems. Today? An automatic MIP and court dates and fines and counseling and classes and expulsion from school. For better or worse, the moral policing and helicopter parenting were much less prevalent back then.

Edited April 21, 2015 by elainebenis

[MatildaMoody]

Well I guess when it's constantly looked at as "who's to blame" and not an overview of all the contributors, contributions and toxic details that went into the tragic outcome of an addicts life then yeah I guess a look at the attempted understanding may seem overblown. To me the how doesn't matter. Those who want to contribute positivity and support I hope continue to do so and those that feel that her circumstances, her decisions and her lacking contributions to her own sobriety are too much to tolerate should  exit stage left. At this point in her struggle it's crucial that those who have nothing healthy to offer steer away from the storm and those that can dedicate healthy support do just that. Here's hoping for that course of action. Stretch, I know.

 

My confusion comes from what would constitute positive support to an addict who does not actually want to change? Wouldn't walking away until they asked for help be the best way to help them?

 

If this were a case of someone who truly felt they needed help and wanted to get clean, I could see that positive support would be to be willing to attend meetings with them, offer a shoulder when they just need someone to listen, and cheer them on when they meet their sobriety milestones.

 

But, when it comes to case like this one when the addicted person really doesn't want to stop abusing what can you offer in the way of positive support that isn't enabling them?

[LotusFlower]

If Kim were to return to the show, think of all the people to whom she would have to make amends. (That's of course if the same cast returns). LisaR, Eileen, LVP, and of course Kyle. No thank you. That is not a show I want to watch. Especially since they would probably be contractually obligated (perhaps save Kyle) to accept her apology and go along and get along.

[renatae]

Ok, TMZ on the tv gave the rundown. Kim was drunk at the Polo Lounge at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Security told her to leave. Security insisted she leave. She then went to the bathroom and refused to leave. Security calls the cops. Cops end up dragging her out of the bathroom. She is taken 'downtown' and booked. Given citations to appear and released.

So basically if Kyle had just let her leave when Security asked then none of this would have happened. Kyle locking the door to the bathroom and not letting Kim out is the reason the cops were called. She was not drunk. She had started a cleanse and didn't realize that the lemons would react with her pills that are the same kinda as a doctor prescribed for her 8 years ago when she was having allergy problems.

So Kyle's fault, no relapse, nothing to see here folks, just move along.

Well, what did you expect? If Kyle had not been constantly accusing Kim, or had at least been honest about the fact that she's a pothead, this never would have happened. Kim's grief over Kyle's inability to admit the truth about pot drove her to this. Tsk. ;/

[Trooper York]

I have not been reading this for a couple of days and I am honestly confused about where the discussion has gone.

 

If I were LisaR or Eileen and Kim is in the cast next year I would start every conversation with "Are you high? Because I don't want you around me or my children. And your big ferocious dog too!"

[LotusFlower]

If I were LisaR or Eileen and Kim is in the cast next year I would start every conversation with "Are you high? Because I don't want you around me or my children. And your big ferocious dog too!"

Ok, I amend my last post, because this is a show I would watch!