The DC Extended Universe: To Thanagar and Beyond!

[cambridgeguy]

19 hours ago, Dani said:

Whether they made the decision on Flash or not them not addressing it or Miller at all is a big problem for me. If Gunn and Safran haven’t been given enough control to make a statement it’s a big problem. If they have and are choosing not to it is a big problem. 

They already have a ready made statement too, complete with flowery language:

Many people worked on The Flash and canning it due to the actions of one person is unnecessarily punitive to everyone else who poured their time and energy into it.  The return of Michael Keaton's legendary Batman,  the groundbreaking Sasha Calle as Supergirl, the incredible Kiersey Clemons as Iris West, and many more are all reasons why we are excited to share this movie with the loyal fans.

Of course, the real reason is they spent $200 million and unless Miller kills a bunch of people they're going to release it.

[tennisgurl]

What a clusterfuck, I feel really bad for Henry Cavill. He really seemed to love being in The Witcher but he gave it up to be Superman, only to get canned right away because DC has no idea what its doing and James Gunn wanting to start over with his own cast. He must feel really jerked around, as I do as a fan. DC is just such a disaster, they keep making stupid decision after stupid decision in their attempts to "fix" their universe, which seems like it always makes things worse. Now without Henry or Patty, so probably not Gal either, they have alienated all of their fans, and I cant imagine this will bring in a ton of new fans who just want more James Gunn or want to see a new Superman, so what was the point? I guess James Gunn just wants to start his vision totally blank, but, as much as I love James Gunn, I am really not sure about him helming a Superman movie. James Gunn specializes in irreverent sarcastic wacky stories with lots of sex and swearing and dark comedy, which is great for something like Guardians or Peacemaker, but not for Superman. I always think of Superman as extremely sincere and heroic in a very aww shucks old fashioned kind of way, and while the writing wasn't very good, I think that Henry nailed that when the scripts allowed him to be anything besides stoic. Losing him seems like a real missed opportunity, and I am not sure if trading him for James Gunn was a great call.  

What really confuses me is that DC got a huge burst when Henry's Superman showed up for one scene in Black Adam, and then they just decide to ditch him about a minute later. These choices just make zero sense to me. At least Henry has a new job, he's certainly going to come out of this mess better than DC will. So are they just going to totally wipe the slate clean now and recast everyone? Are the actors going to be stuck promoting their movies knowing that their about to get fired? Again, this just feels like they are going to alienate fans without bringing in a whole lot of new ones, who either don't care or are burned out by DC. I have in no way been a fan of how the DCEU has gone and would love to see changes, but I don't think that torching it and starting over is the right call either.

Say what you will about the MCU machine, but no way would they allow their universe to get so publicly messy, especially this late in the game. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I guess James Gunn just wants to start his vision totally blank, but, as much as I love James Gunn, I am really not sure about him helming a Superman movie. James Gunn specializes in irreverent sarcastic wacky stories with lots of sex and swearing and dark comedy, which is great for something like Guardians or Peacemaker, but not for Superman. I always think of Superman as extremely sincere and heroic in a very aww shucks old fashioned kind of way, and while the writing wasn't very good, I think that Henry nailed that when the scripts allowed him to be anything besides stoic. Losing him seems like a real missed opportunity, and I am not sure if trading him for James Gunn was a great call.  

I was wanting to say the same thing but could figure out how to word it. James Gunn feels as much of a mismatch to Superman as Snyder did. 

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

They already have a ready made statement too, complete with flowery language:

Many people worked on The Flash and canning it due to the actions of one person is unnecessarily punitive to everyone else who poured their time and energy into it.  The return of Michael Keaton's legendary Batman,  the groundbreaking Sasha Calle as Supergirl, the incredible Kiersey Clemons as Iris West, and many more are all reasons why we are excited to share this movie with the loyal fans.

That wouldn’t work after they threw the Batgirl movie in the trash can. 

[Fukui San]

What I want to have happen now is for the MCU to pick up Cavill and Gadot and make a Squadron Supreme movie. 

Squadron Supreme is the thinly disguised Marvel Universe alternate universe analog of the Justice League, and the signature miniseries of the title had the plot: What if the Justice League took control of the world and tried their best to run it and totally f'ed it the hell up? 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

What I want to have happen now is for the MCU to pick up Cavill and Gadot and make a Squadron Supreme movie. 

Squadron Supreme is the thinly disguised Marvel Universe alternate universe analog of the Justice League, and the signature miniseries of the title had the plot: What if the Justice League took control of the world and tried their best to run it and totally f'ed it the hell up? 

Interesting,  kind of a middle ground between JL and The Seven (from The Boys)

I still want him as Captain Britain/Brian Braddock 

[BetterButter]

[starri]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Many people worked on The Flash and canning it due to the actions of one person is unnecessarily punitive to everyone else who poured their time and energy into it.  The return of Michael Keaton's legendary Batman,  the groundbreaking Sasha Calle as Supergirl, the incredible Kiersey Clemons as Iris West, and many more are all reasons why we are excited to share this movie with the loyal fans.

Many people worked on Batgirl, and they killed that even without a star who is a complete sociopath.

As far as we know, anyway.

[Bruinsfan]

Jeez, at this point do I need to worry about James Gunn breaking into my house to take away my Man of Steel and Wonder Woman blu-rays?

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, BetterButter said:

If that’s true, I guess that means Gal’s out too.  😢  Thanks James Gunn.  I have now officially lost whatever enthusiasm I may have had for your….whatever it is you are doing. 

[tv echo]

I'm not sure I believe what James Gunn says anymore - he's lost credibility...

James Gunn Bluntly Reacts to Messy Black Adam Situation
By Richard Nebens    December 16, 2022
https://thedirect.com/article/james-gunn-black-adam-situation 

Quote

DC Studios co-CEO James Gunn responded to a couple of fan comments on Instagram addressing the messy handling of Henry Cavill's return to and exit from the DCU.

A fan asked Gunn if it was true that Warner Bros. "strung Henry Cavill along to get him to bump numbers on Black Adam" and leave his role on Netflix's The Witcher only to boot him from the role.

Gunn explained that "everything with Black Adam" was before he took his position, indicating that Cavill was already part of that project before the transition of power.

Another fan said that it was "really fucked up" seeing Cavill have to leave his role on The Witcher to come back to play Superman, only to find out that he "won’t be playing Superman anymore." 

Gunn clarified that claim, noting that "Those things had nothing to do with each other." Many speculated that the timing of Cavill's exit from the Netflix series suspiciously lined up with his return as Superman.

Edited December 19, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Henry Cavill should be thankful he’s been fired as Superman – DC didn’t deserve him
Jacob Stolworthy   posted 2 days ago
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/henry-cavill-superman-dc-the-witcher-b2246679.html 

Quote

For years now, DC has been scrambling to carve out its own extensive film universe, akin to Marvel’s, with diminished returns. Not that Cavill has ever hinted that he thinks this; during interviews, even when his Superman future seemed uncertain, the actor remained enthusiastic about his involvement – even when others, like former 007 star Craig, wore their weariness on their sleeve. He was clearly relishing the opportunity to play the role in DC’s new era, which is being mapped out by James Gunn and Peter Safran – while unconfirmed, he seemed to quit The Witcher because of his Superman return – but instead of having his loyalty rewarded, the company he stuck with has turned its back on him. That it’s done so in favour of a new Superman film centred on a younger version of the character might fill him with a disappointing sense of déjà vu.

Cavill may think he’s been hung out to dry, but he’d be wrong. It would have been fun to see what Gunn and Safran did with his Superman and, sure, it must have been nice knowing work (and money) was on the horizon. But Cavill has essentially been handed a key, freeing him from the shackles of a decade filled with credits he could probably do without.
*  *  *
Now’s the time for him to say yes to the projects these future blockbusters would have kept him from – films and TV shows that will make the most of, rather than squander, his acting chops. An independent, potentially Oscar-bothering drama, perhaps, or a supporting role in a Christopher Nolan movie (the director would surely tap the debonair Brit up for that). It would also be terrific to see Cavill take on a modern-day character – maybe he could be one of the next round of hotel guests in season three of The White Lotus?

The world is Cavill’s oyster – if he plays his cards right, 10 years from now he’ll be grateful for that meeting with Gunn and, instead of being seen as just Superman, he’ll have cemented his legacy as the Superman that DC didn’t deserve.

Edited December 19, 2022 by tv echo

[xaxat]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:53 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Even though Gunn and Safran are the new guys in charge of DC movies/shows/animation they aren't in charge of Warner Bros so some decisions will still be out of their hands.

I read that Discovery/Warner (or whatever it is called) is using the disappearance of content like Westworld and the Batgirl movie etc. to provides them with a post-merger related tax dodge. That would seem to be a perfect reason to jettison Flash, their most problematic property.

Edited December 20, 2022 by xaxat

[Chyromaniac]

4 hours ago, xaxat said:

I read that Discovery/Warner (or whatever it is called) is using the disappearance of content like Westworld and the Batgirl movie etc. to provides them with a post-merger related tax dodge. That would seem to be a perfect reason to jettison Flash, their most problematic property.

To get the tax credit, WB had to shelve projects back in August- which is what happened to Batgirl and Scoob 2.  If they wanted to do the same thing to Flash, they would have had to do it back then.  But, that was back before everything that’s happened in the past few months.

In August, the people in charge still probably assumed that they could mostly just keep going with the DCEU as it was.  They were certain the “big” films they had ready to go would be huge hits, starting with Black Adam- and that they could continue with Shazam 2, Flash, and beyond.  But the response to BA was mixed, both from fans and critics- and they probably knew pretty quickly that the box office was going to be disappointing.  And less than a month later, the old guard was out, and Gunn/Safran were in.

Given what has happened, would they have pulled Flash back in August?  It’s hard to say - it certainly would have been a bigger write off.  But, I still suspect the studio execs would bet on their ability to sell Flash to the public- whether they’re right remains to be seen, but it seems even less likely now than it was four months ago.

Otherwise, Westworld essentially got canceled because they couldn’t reach a deal with the producers for a final season.  But that was also in November, well after the tax deadline.  They’ve pulled the show off streaming, but I don’t think that decision was about saving money.

[Bruinsfan]

I'd be interested in seeing what they thought the benefits would be for the "piss off every customer possible" strategy they currently seem to be following. Isn't Westworld one of the big draws to the HBO Max streaming service? You'd think having the existing episodes available through the end of their contract with the production company would help with subscriber numbers without costing them much extra.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bruinsfan

[BetterButter]

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

To get the tax credit, WB had to shelve projects back in August- which is what happened to Batgirl and Scoob 2.  If they wanted to do the same thing to Flash, they would have had to do it back then.  But, that was back before everything that’s happened in the past few months.

I thought the same thing but they had a securities filing last week that they now expect to take more more write-offs than they said in October. 

19 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Otherwise, Westworld essentially got canceled because they couldn’t reach a deal with the producers for a final season.  But that was also in November, well after the tax deadline.  They’ve pulled the show off streaming, but I don’t think that decision was about saving money.

Westworld and other shows are being pulled to sell the streaming rights to other streaming services. 
 

Warner Bros. Discovery to Take Additional $800M-$1B in Write-offs, Says ‘Westworld,’ ‘The Nevers’ Being Licensed to Third-Party Streamers

[tv echo]

James Gunn Details The Difference Between His DCU Role & Zack Snyder’s
BY FELIPE OLIVEIRA     DEC 21, 2022
https://screenrant.com/james-gunn-dcu-role-comparison-zack-snyder/ 

Quote

Gunn detailed the different conditions of his DCU role compared to Snyder's past DC role in response to a fan on the social media site Mastodon. The fan noted their concern over the possibility of DC Studios overriding Gunn's decisions, as well as that of future DCU directors, something Snyder dealt with during his movies. "The position is different than it was with Zack, etc. Peter & I are the heads of DC Studios. The only studio interference would be from us!" Gunn replied.

‘Black Adam 2’ Not Moving Forward as Part of New DC’s “First Chapter”
BY AARON COUCH, BORYS KIT   DECEMBER 20, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-adam-2-not-moving-forward-dwayne-johnson-1235282822/

Quote

However, Adam disappointed at the box office with $391 million globally and earned poor reviews. That wouldn’t necessarily be a problem to launch a sequel if not for several factors. One, the movie was inordinately expensive. Greenlit at $190 million, the movie’s costs ballooned to the $260 million mark, according to sources, especially after a costly 20-day round of reshoots undertaken after a poor test screening. That does not include marketing costs.

More from prolific tweeter James Gunn...

Edited December 21, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

2022 in Review: 11 Dumb Things TV Did
By Team TVLine / December 19 2022
https://tvline.com/lists/worst-tv-decisions-2022-cancellations-scheduling/ 

Quote

6  MORE LIKE 'HBO AX,' AMIRITE?
...
What a strange few months it has been! And to think that at first, we thought the madness would be limited to the random-at-the-time scrapping of the HBO Max-bound, significantly completed Batgirl movie (and some Scooby-Doo! offering).

And hey, we totally get it. Warner Bros Discovery boss David Zaslav has some $3 billion (with a B!) in debt to reduce, by any means necessary. But that doesn’t change the fact that the harsh calls made across the entire WBD catalog — be they cancellations (Westworld), “un-renewals” (Minx), snuffed premieres (the animated Batman: Caped Crusader) or the removal of titles from the streaming service (Raised by Wolves, Gordita Chronicles) — add up to what feels like a death by a thousand cruel cuts.

Practical from a business sense? Sure. Inelegant and seemingly insensitive in execution? Yep.

Edited December 21, 2022 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

He's got to wipe the slate clean or it looks like favoritism. Oh I'm dumping Cavill, the Rock, Gal Gadot, etc but keeping characters I created/like (Suicide Squad). 

I also don't care how he labels it, his Young Superman is another origin story I wonder if he's thinking of copying MCU Spider-Man with a Triology Origin Story?

[Tenshinhan]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I also don't care how he labels it, his Young Superman is another origin story I wonder if he's thinking of copying MCU Spider-Man with a Triology Origin Story?

I don't see any reason why Gunn's Superman would have to be an origin story.  You can reboot the story without retelling the origin.

I think Superman is long overdue for a respectful film adaptation and I'm interested to see what Gunn will do with it.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

I don't see any reason why Gunn's Superman would have to be an origin story.  You can reboot the story without retelling the origin.

Pretty much any version of a character appearing for the first time in a solo movie qualifies, in my mind, as an origin story. Even if we don’t see the origin of their powers they still tend to have the same basic storytelling arc. 

I agree is possible for Gunn’s version to avoid that just because Superman’s backstory is so well known. It really doesn’t matter to me if it labeled an origin story or not. I just don’t have any desire to see another version of early Superman. It’s been done so many times already. 

[Bruinsfan]

I'd have preferred they kept Cavill in the role and let Superman age until he was the gray-haired elder statesman the original version of the character (later referred to as the Golden Age or Earth-2 Superman) eventually became.

[Tenshinhan]

Superman on film just hasn't been done properly yet, and I think that Gunn realizes this.  I think that his only choices were either a clean reboot, or a DC film universe with no Superman at all.  My guess is that anything in between would be a disservice to the property and the audience in Gunn's eyes.

[tv echo]

Fandango recently revealed the results of its 2023 Most Anticipated Movies Survey - note that Aquaman 2 is the only DC movie to make the top 10 list of 2023's Most Anticipated Blockbusters and the top 5 list of Most Anticipated Superhero Movies (The Flash did not make any of the lists in this survey)...

2023’s Most Anticipated Movies: ‘Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3’ Leads Fandango Survey
Anthony D'Alessandro   December 20, 2022 
https://deadline.com/2022/12/top-movies-2023-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3-fandango-1235203078/

Quote

2023’s Most Anticipated Blockbusters:

1. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
2. Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse (June 2)
3. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (Feb. 17)
4. John Wick: Chapter 4 (March 24)
5. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30)
6. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (Dec. 25)
7. Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One (July 14)
8. The Hunger Games: The Ballad of the Songbirds and Snakes (Nov. 17)
9. Creed III (March 3)
10. The Super Mario Bros. Movie (April 7)

*  *  *
Most Anticipated Superhero Movies

1. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
2. Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse
3. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
4. The Marvels (July 28)
5. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom

Edited December 23, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Warner Bros. to Return to Super Bowl After 17-Year Absence With ‘The Flash’ Promo (Exclusive)
Umberto Gonzalez | December 22, 2022
https://www.thewrap.com/warner-bros-super-bowl-the-flash-promo/ 

[Trini]

[Sorry I'm late to the conversation]

I get that the new people in charge would want to 'start fresh' with a new Superman (new version/new actor), but the way that it all been handled has been such a mess. It just sucks that Cavill gets cut because of all this BTS shenanigans when I thought he was good in the role.

 

On 12/15/2022 at 5:29 AM, Peace 47 said:

... Since my favorite DC character is actually Lois Lane, I personally actually just want to see Lois Lane and Clark Kent having some exciting Metropolis adventures together (and I do get that most people do not care so much for Lois), but if Gunn is going to focus on young Superman, I fear we are going to have to suffer through more Smallville story and/ or Lois being in the dark about Clark’s alter ego, and we’ve done iterations of all that so many times now between Smallville, Man of Steel, Superman Returns, etc.  It’s just so disappointing.  ☹️

Yes! Lois and Clark adventures in Metropolis; let's do that movie! But yes, if Lois doesn't know Clark is Superman it's going to feel like a regression. I did like that Lois had figured that out in Man of Steel.

 

On 12/15/2022 at 10:04 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I still want to see the next Shazam and Aquaman movies, but I’m seriously wondering what’s the point if it’s all going to be wiped out anyway.

I get you, but I don't need them to be part of 'a universe' to enjoy them by themselves. I'm not going to let WBD's dumpster fire rob me of that! I hope they don't completely wipe out Aquaman; that was one of the things that was working.

[tv echo]

Zachary Levi Grieves Henry Cavill & Dwayne Johnson's DC Exits
By Nathan Johnson    December 26, 2022
https://thedirect.com/article/henry-cavill-zachary-levi-dwayne-johnson-dc-exits 

Quote

Shazam! Fury of the Gods star Zachary Levi recently talked about the future of the DC Universe via Instagram.
*  *  *
"Everyone, just take a breath. I know we've seen some characters, some actors that are taking an exit. And I know that's difficult. That's difficult for even me, you know what I mean? I was hoping I got to work with a lot of these folks. But it's just not the way it's going to go down right now."
*  *  *
"Whoever is still out there all drummed up and pissed off, just trust that James is so... He understands comic books, he understands world-building. He understands how to do right by the canon, and also right by the characters, and also by the audience. And Peter is an incredible diplomat and business person. I've worked with him now for years."
*  *  *
"Just breathe, it's going to be okay. It's going to be better than okay, but we have to give them that, we have to give them some respect and trust in that. These are my two cents, you take them for whatever you want."

[tv echo]

Greg Berlanti Signs With CAA
BY LESLEY GOLDBERG, RICK PORTER   DECEMBER 21, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/caa-signs-greg-berlanti-1235286473/ 

Quote

The news comes as Berlanti has been in the midst of negotiations with Warner Bros. Discovery to extend his $400 million overall deal, which he signed in 2018. It’s unclear if he will do so, given that his current deal was made years before the WarnerMedia-Discovery merger. That deal included bonuses for the number of series Berlanti was able to get picked up. The prolific producer, who owns the record for the most scripted originals on the air or in the works, has seen that volume take a hit following The CW’s sale to Nexstar. Berlanti Productions is behind eight series on the network, but three of them — The Flash, Stargirl and Riverdale — are ending this season, and new owner Nexstar has signaled its intentions to pursue lower-cost scripted series as it attempts to make The CW profitable.
*  *  *
Also of growing concern is Berlanti’s future role with DC Studios, given the studio’s new leadership and executives’ interest in better unifying both its TV and film universes à la Marvel. Berlanti, who ushered in TV’s comic book craze with The CW’s Arrowverse, has also seen his DC slate shrink to the final season of The Flash, Superman & Lois and the upcoming Gotham Knights, all for the Nexstar-controlled platform (Stargirl aired its series finale Dec. 7). He’s also reworking a Green Lantern series with a new creative direction for HBO Max, the WBD-backed streamer that previously axed Berlanti’s Strange Adventures series.

[Bruinsfan]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

"And Peter is an incredible diplomat and business person. I've worked with him now for years."

An incredible diplomat would have handled this whole situation considerably better. I suspect the same would be true from a business point of view as well, but we'll have to wait and see what the box office proves regarding that.

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

"Just breathe, it's going to be okay. It's going to be better than okay, but we have to give them that, we have to give them some respect and trust in that. These are my two cents, you take them for whatever you want."

No, actually we don't. And since Warner Bros. isn't paying me millions of dollars for an upcoming movie with similar future paydays up in the air, I have no intention of doing so.

[tv echo]

Lessons James Gunn's DC Studios Can Learn From the Arrowverse
By RUSS BURLINGAME - December 27, 2022
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/lessons-james-gunns-dc-studios-can-learn-from-the-arrowverse/

Quote

Reinvention Is Not Toxic
...
The root of many of Zack Snyder's problems with critics and fans, was the fact that Man of Steel didn't feel like all the previous Superman movies. But it also set his movies apart in a way that will make them endure.

The Arrowverse did this too. Green Arrow in Arrow was often nothing like the Green Arrow of the comics. He ended up with Felicity Smoak instead of Dinah Lance because the actors had better chemistry. The Flash had a complicated family dynamic that also contributed to a season 1 obstacle to his relationship with Iris. The Reverse-Flash turned out to secretly be Barry's hero. And Legends is full of characters who are either radical reinventions of existing characters, or entirely new things.

And virtually all of these choices paid off creatively. There's no need to clone the comics 1:1. In fact, often when you just fill your movie with a bunch of seemingly random fan service, it doesn't really pay off and feels like none of it mattered. Just ask all the familiar Marvel names that popped up as generic Extremis soldiers in Iron Man 3.

Reinvention Is Not Toxic
Casting is Key
Comics Are Weird.
Diversity is a Good Thing
Don't Ignore the Multiverse
Honor What Came Before
Allow Distinct Creative Voices

Edited December 30, 2022 by tv echo

[GHScorpiosRule]

 

Quote

The root of many of Zack Snyder's problems with critics and fans, was the fact that

Man of Steel didn't feel like all the previous Superman movies. But it also set his movies apart in a way that will make them endure.

Oh PLEASE. Endure my ass.

Quote

The Arrowverse did this too. Green Arrow in

Arrow was often nothing like the Green Arrow of the comics. He ended up with Felicity Smoak instead of Dinah Lance because the actors had better chemistry.

While this is true (and I loved Ollie and Felicity), Arrow was nothing like his comic counterpart because Berlanti and Guggenheim wanted to do BATMAN, but DC wouldn't let them. So many of his villains were from Bats' rogues gallery. And the show was always called Batman-Lite.

Edited December 30, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Captain Carrot]

I feel bad for Cavill since he enjoyed playing Superman and he never got a truly great movie to show how good he was in the role.

However, I don't think Gunn was wrong to replace him. This is due to a reason that hasn't been discussed much. Henry Cavill is 39 years old, and he can play Superman today. But what about ten years from now?

It makes sense to start over with a younger actor that can be Superman for the next 10 - 15 years.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

However, I don't think Gunn was wrong to replace him. This is due to a reason that hasn't been discussed much. Henry Cavill is 39 years old, and he can play Superman today. But what about ten years from now?

It makes sense to start over with a younger actor that can be Superman for the next 10 - 15 years.

I mostly agree but it also doesn’t really matter if they cast on actor who can handle the role 10 - 15 years from now if the audience is burnt out from the drama. Or if the audience doesn’t want to bother getting attached to another iteration of a character knowing we may never see the end of the story. 

Which is probably what bother me the most in all of this. What’s the point in being invested, watching these movies in theaters and sticking around for end credit scenes if it’s all going to be irrelevant? I’m not against them recasting any of the characters but also don’t think I have it in me to care anymore. Maybe I’ll check back in if this new 5 year plan actually happens. Until then I probably just watch on streaming when I find the time. 

[Trini]

On 12/30/2022 at 7:29 PM, Captain Carrot said:

However, I don't think Gunn was wrong to replace him. This is due to a reason that hasn't been discussed much. Henry Cavill is 39 years old, and he can play Superman today. But what about ten years from now?

Eh - if they want a younger Superman, then they want a younger Superman; but I honestly don't think age is a main factor for Cavill getting replaced. I don't see why Cavill couldn't play Superman a decade from now. Sure, he'd be an older Superman, but I don't see how that's a problem.

I mean, they had Affleck in his mid-forties playing Batman; they brought back Keaton 30 years later for Batman as well; and I know TV is different than films, but they also had Routh play another version of Superman 15 years later, as well as JW Shipp playing the Flash again. And for a couple of non-DC examples, they convinced Jackman to play Wolverine and Sir Stewart to play Prof. X for the umpteenth time. (Y'all notice how these are all males, right? That's another discussion....)

I'm just saying, if they wanted to keep Cavill, they could have, and I don't think being in his forties ages him out of the role. I think TPTB just want to 'start fresh' and it's easier to do that with someone new. (I just wonder what kind of 'name' -or no-name - they're going to get with how bad WB/DC treats it's talent.)

Edited January 1, 2023 by Trini

[tv echo]

Batgirl Star Leaks New Unseen Photos from Cancelled Movie
By Richard Nebens     January 1, 2023
https://thedirect.com/article/batgirl-leak-cancelled-movie-costume

Quote

On her Instagram account, Batgirl star Leslie Grace shared the best look yet at her final costume from the canceled DCU movie.

Grace posted an image of herself taking a lunch break while dressed in her final full suit from Batgirl, boasting the character's classic purple and gold color scheme. With a full purple helmet and a gold bat symbol on her chest, the costume features a full cape and intricate armor-like body along with two gold gauntlets reminiscent of DC's original Caped Crusader, Batman.

*  *  *
Other images of Grace's Barbara Gordon looks for the film include her in a Gotham City Police Department uniform, as her badge is prominently displayed on her left shoulder, complete with a GCPD beanie for the cold Gotham nights:

Another had Grace wearing a full black beanie on top of a black Batgirl cowl, which presumably comes from one of her earlier costumes used in the movie:

Fans got another decent look at that leather jacket looks, as Grace is seen lounging around and throwing up a "peace" sign, looking a little more comfortable with the costume unzipped:

Finally, Grace is seen embracing the main villain of Batgirl, Firefly, who was played by Brendan Fraser. It's unclear whether this shot shows Fraser or his stunt double posing with Grace:

Edited January 2, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

James Gunn quickly debunked two items in Variety's Jan. 4th article (link posted below). The Variety article also reports that some WB execs are still open to continuing with Ezra Miller after The Flash comes out...

Secret Meetings, Tequila and Black Adam vs. Superman: How Dwayne Johnson’s Bid for DC Power Flamed Out
By Tatiana Siegel    Jan. 4, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/dwayne-johnson-dc-exit-black-adam-superman-failed-plan-1235478867/ 

Quote

As 2023 kicks off, DC bosses Gunn and Safran continue to sift through the rubble and will soon reveal their three-year interconnected vision for the cinematic universe, which won’t include Cavill’s Superman or Wonder Woman at all. But things could have gone in an alternative direction: Behind the scenes, a different group made a play for control of DC. Not long after the Warner Bros. Discovery merger closed in April, Dwayne Johnson directly pitched CEO David Zaslav on a multiyear plan for Black Adam and a Cavill-led Superman in which the two properties would interweave, setting up a Superman-versus-Black Adam showdown, sources say. “Black Adam” producers Hiram Garcia, who is Johnson’s former brother-in-law, and Beau Flynn also were part of the brain trust looking to take DC down a new path. Other sources confirmed the meeting but downplayed any discussion of Black Adam’s future. 

Although the move took place amid a power vacuum created as former DC head Walter Hamada and Warner Bros. film chief Toby Emmerich prepared to exit, it ruffled feathers internally, sources add. “Dwayne went around everyone, which didn’t sit well,” says one. 

Eventually, new Warner Bros. film co-heads Michael De Luca and Pam Abdy approved a Cavill cameo in “Black Adam,” despite the fact that Emmerich had made the call in 2018 to find another actor to don the red cape.

But “Black Adam,” which bowed Oct. 21, fizzled with a $391 million worldwide haul against a $195 budget plus $40 million in reshoots, scuttling any plans for more outings for the lightning bolt-wielding antihero and officially ending the Cavill Superman era. Cavill parted ways with his manager, Johnson’s ex-wife Dany Garcia, this year, but a source says it was unrelated to the DC drama and she remains a strategic adviser to the actor. Meanwhile, the Johnson-Warners relationship already was wearing thin after Johnson pushed for a producing credit on the animated film “DC League of Super-Pets,” which opened in July, but did little to promote it. The actor also insisted on a tequila bar at the New York premiere of “Black Adam” featuring his Teremana brand, despite the film being rated PG-13.
*  *  *
As for what else Gunn and Safran have planned for DC’s future, sources describe it as a broad but not blanket reset. At this point, nothing is ruled out. Given that Miller has stayed out of trouble since beginning mental health treatment in the summer, some executives are amenable to continuing with the actor as the world-saving speedster after “The Flash” bows on June 16. “Aquaman,” “Shazam!,” “Blue Beetle” and Gunn’s “Peacemaker” series for HBO Max all could have a place at the table. Gunn and Safran, who were recommended by De Luca, have the full backing of the WBD top ranks.

Edited January 6, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Greg Berlanti Bets on His Legacy With New Warner Bros. TV Megadeal
BY LESLEY GOLDBERG    JANUARY 9, 2023
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/inside-greg-berlanti-warner-bros-megadeal-1235293695/ 

Quote

 

Greg Berlanti believes in the traditional studio model so much so that it’s the focal point of his new overall deal with Warner Bros. Television.

The prolific producer, who holds the record for the most scripted originals on the air or in the works at the same time, signed a new, four-year overall deal with his longtime home at WBTV that will see him rewarded in step with the studio. The new agreement — which begins in 2024 after his current pact expires — will see Berlanti and the studio be compensated for the success of the shows he delivers rather than his record output.
*  *  *
Under the pact steered by Berlanti’s new CAA team led by Joe Cohen, Berlanti Productions will serve more as a studio within Warners and be compensated in tandem with the studio based on the success of the content he delivers — harkening back to the pre-streaming days when secondary revenue sources and residuals were key components of dealmaking. Sources say Warners simplified the deal to remove separate accounting for individual programs and opted instead to focus on the potential legacy value of the next wave of content Berlanti delivers.

... Sources also note that while Berlanti helped launch the wave of comic book TV series with DC hits including Arrow and Superman & Lois, DC Comics fare will not be the focal point of his new deal with Warners. (Reps for Berlanti, Warners and DC all declined comment.)

By betting on the studio system, Berlanti is placing an emphasis on the legacy value of his output as much as its initial success. Under Channing Dungey and her top lieutenant, Brett Paul, Warners continues to serve as a content supplier for corporate siblings HBO and HBO Max while also selling to outside buyers (like Apple and Netflix). Once the streaming window on a show expires, Warners retains the rights to the program and can sell it domestically and internationally — thus paving the way for Berlanti to cash in on his next wave of hits. Think of Friends and The Big Bang Theory as prime examples. Once the current streaming deal with HBO Max expires for both shows, Warners will profit again by selling those shows in perpetuity.

 

Greg Berlanti Signs New Mega Overall Deal With Warner Bros. Television Group
By Nellie Andreeva    January 9, 2023
https://deadline.com/2023/01/greg-berlanti-new-overall-deal-warner-bros-television-1235211523/ 

Quote

Warner Bros. is keeping their most prolific TV producer of the last decade in the fold. Greg Berlanti has closed a massive new four-year exclusive overall deal for his Berlanti Productions to remain at the studio for its television operations into the year 2027.

No financial terms are being disclosed but sources indicate that the pact is structured differently than Berlanti’s most recent blockbuster overall deal with Warner Bros. TV Group whose value had been estimated to be more than $300 million and as much as $400 million over six years. That agreement involved the studio buying out Berlanti’s backend on his shows, while the new deal is more of a joint venture with a big potential upside for Berlanti, sources said.

In success, based on the number of series the new deal yields and their profitability, it could be the biggest TV deal ever for Warner Bros. It marks the first re-up for a top TV creative talent since the Discovery merger, with the company’s new leadership sending a signal that, even with the cost-cutting measures, including a slew of write-offs, that have made headlines over the past nine months, they are willing to step up in order to keep the biggest names on their talent roster.
*  *  *
Under the terms of the deal, Berlanti Productions, in which Berlanti is partnered with long-time collaborator Sarah Schechter, will continue to develop new television programming to be produced by divisions of the Warner Bros. TV Group for all platforms, including WBD’s HBO Max, external streaming services, cable, and the broadcast networks.

Edited January 11, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

 

‘The Penguin’ Series to Tie Into ‘The Batman’ Sequel, Matt Reeves Says [Exclusive]
BY MARCO VITO ODDO     PUBLISHED 5 DAYS AGO
https://collider.com/penguin-series-the-batman-2-tie-in/ 

Quote

While the idea of a Penguin series is exciting, Reeves also points out how The Batman spinoff will be tightly connected to the theatrical releases. Reeves explains that “There's actually a whole little fabric of things we're wanting to do, the way we're doing with [the] Penguin and how that comes back into how that will lead into the sequel, and what that sequel is going to be.” It sounds like the miniseries will set the foundations for The Batman sequel, which means that fans who want to fully understand Reeves’ BatVerse movies will have to watch all the spinoffs too. That’s not bad news. The Batman was so great that we definitely wouldn't mind watching more stories in that version of Gotham City.

Edited January 16, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Dave Bautista says he's talked to James Gunn about playing Bane and it's not happening: 'He's starting from scratch'
Jason Guerrasio Jan 30, 2023
https://www.insider.com/dave-bautista-never-going-to-play-bane-2023-1 

Quote

"I have had conversations with James about that but I think the direction he's leaning in, completely rebooting that whole universe, he's starting from scratch and starting younger and fresher and I think you need to do that," the actor told Insider over the weekend while doing press for his upcoming movie, "Knock at the Cabin."

"I think for the DC Universe to be revived, you need to start from scratch, and I think you need to start with younger actors," Bautista, 54, continued. "You need to start to plan for the next 15 years, and I just don't think you can do that with me. And I understand that. And, also, I have to say that I appreciate that because I don't want to play a character that I can't bring justice to it. I don't think at this point in my career that I can bring justice to Bane anymore. I just don't know if I could handle the physical part, and I don't think I would have the longevity to plan ahead for films. So, I just don't know if I'd be that guy."

Edited January 30, 2023 by tv echo

[BetterButter]

DC Slate Unveiled: New Batman, Supergirl Movies, a Green Lantern TV Show, and More from James Gunn, Peter Safran

Quote

The DC Studios bosses shared ten projects, talked the exit of Henry Cavill and the potential future of Ezra Miller as The Flash as they introduced a slate of big heroes and lesser known characters. "The stakes are massive for us and for Warner Bros. Discovery," says Safran.

 

[dmeets]

From the THR article:

Quote

“We didn’t fire Henry. Henry was never cast,” said Gunn. “For me, it’s about who do I want to cast as Superman and who do the filmmakers we have want to cast. And for me, for this story, it isn’t Henry.”

He added: “I like Henry, I think he’s a great guy. I think he’s getting dicked around by a lot of people, including the former regime at this company. But this Superman is not Henry, for a number of reasons.”

Uh, James, it's not just the old bosses who dicked him around.

I'm kind of getting the impression everyone's too afraid to fire Ezra until they've been cleared by a therapist, out of fear it'll push them over the edge.

 

 

[Guest]

From THR:

Quote

“One of our strategies is to take our diamond characters — which is Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman — and we use them to prop up other characters that people don’t know,” explained Gunn.

Added Safran, “To build those lesser known properties into the diamond properties of tomorrow.”

This worries me coming from a studio who has struggled to make any decent movies with the “diamond characters”. They have a problem with rushing the setup in an effort to compete with Marvel and this feels like more of the same thing. 

I haven’t had a chance to look closely at the lineup but at first glance it looks some have the potential to be really good and some like to be a pass. 

Here’s the lineup:

Quote

Creature Commandos: A seven-episode animated series, written by Gunn, that is already in production. Originally a team of classic monsters assembled to fight Nazis, this is a modern take on the concept. The voice actors have yet to be cast, but the executives are looking to find people who can voice the animated characters and also portray the live-action versions when the antiheroes show up in movies and series.

Waller: In a spinoff of Gunn’s own HBO Max hit series Peacemaker, Viola Davis will return as the ruthless and morally ambiguous head of a government task force. It is being written by Christal Henry (Watchmen) and Jeremy Carver, the creator of the Doom Patrol TV series.

Superman: Legacy: The movie featuring the Man of Steel that Gunn is writing and may direct, although no commitments on that end have been made. While the two previous titles are meant to be “aperitifs,” in Safran’s words, Superman is the true kick-off for the duo’s DCU plans. “It’s not an origin story,” Safran said. “It focuses on Superman balancing his Kryptonian heritage with his human upbringing. He is the embodiment of truth, justice and the American way. He is kindness in a world that thinks that kindness is old-fashioned.” A release date of July 11, 2025, has been penciled in.

Lanterns: Greg Berlanti’s long-in-the-works Green Lanterns TV series has been scrapped (and Gunn and Safran have parted ways with the longtime DC series steward). In its place will be a new take on the space cops with power rings. “Our vision for this is very much in the vein of True Detective,” Safran described. “It’s terrestrial-based.” It will feature prominent Lantern heroes Hal Jordan and John Stewart and is one of the most important shows they have in development. “This plays a really big role in leading into the main story we are telling across film and TV.”

The Authority: A movie based on a team of superheroes with rather extreme methods of protecting the planet that first originated in the late 1990s under an influential imprint known as Wildstorm, run by artist and now head of DC publishing Jim Lee. “One of the things of the DCU is that it’s not just a story of heroes and villains,” said Gunn. “Not every film and TV show is going to be about good guy versus bad guy, giant things from the sky come and good guy wins. There are white hats, black hats and gray hats.” Added Safran: “They are kinda like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men. They know that you want them on the wall. Or at least they believe that.”

Paradise Lost: The duo describe this HBO Max series as a Game of Thrones-style drama set on the all-female island that is Wonder Woman’s birthplace, Themyscira, filled with political intrigue and scheming between power players. It takes place before the events of the Wonder Woman films.

The Brave and the Bold: “This is the introduction of the DCU Batman,” said Gunn, “of Bruce Wayne, and also introduces our favorite Robin, Damian Wayne, who is a little son of a bitch.” The movie will take inspiration from the now-classic Batman run written by Grant Morrison that introduced Batman to a son he never knew existed: a murderous tween raised by assassins. “It’s a very strange father-and-son story.”

And, importantly, it will feature a Batman not played by Robert Pattinson. However, there is also …

The Batman sequel: Pattinson will continue to portray the Dark Knight in at least one more crime saga movie directed by Matt Reeves. That movie, the executives revealed, will be released Oct. 3, 2025, and is being titled The Batman Part II.

 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Paradise Lost: The duo describe this HBO Max series as a Game of Thrones-style drama set on the all-female island that is Wonder Woman’s birthplace, Themyscira, filled with political intrigue and scheming between power players. It takes place before the events of the Wonder Woman films.

This is the only thing that intrigues me. 

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

I'm kind of getting the impression everyone's too afraid to fire Ezra until they've been cleared by a therapist, out of fear it'll push them over the edge.

After what they did to those girls, I’m past caring.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Guest]

I don’t love how many of the descriptions are comparisons to other complete unrelated popular shows. I really like the idea of a Green Lantern series but “in the vein of True Detective” and “terrestrial-based”? Why?

Thrilled that we are getting a Themyscira series but “Game of Thrones style” is unnecessary. 

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

This is the only thing that intrigues me. 

3 hours ago, dmeets said:

I love that Viola Davis is getting a series (that I probably won’t watch) but I agree. I am trying really hard to temper my enthusiasm since they could screw this up so easily. It needs that right showrunner and writer. I am apprehensive that they won’t really commit to an all-female cast. 🤞 Robin Wright and Connie Nielsen are already on board. There is so much potential. I’m not doing a very good job of tempering my enthusiasm. 

[Spartan Girl]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

Thrilled that we are getting a Themyscira series but “Game of Thrones style” is unnecessary. 

I love that Viola Davis is getting a series (that I probably won’t watch) but I agree. I am trying really hard to temper my enthusiasm since they could screw this up so easily. It needs that right showrunner and writer. I apprehensive that they won’t really commit to an all-female cast. 🤞 Robin Wright and Connie Nielsen are already on board. There is so much potential. I’m not doing a very good job of tempering my enthusiasm. 

I hear “Game of Thrones” style and my first instinct is fear. Please do not repeat Dumb and Dumber’s mistakes…

[Starfish35]

Yeah I can’t say any of this really interests me. Themyscira prequel series might be be interesting, but Game of Thrones style? Hard pass.  Batman and Robin….but with Damian? Really? And Damian is their favorite Robin?  Ok then.  🙄  And…

8 minutes ago, Dani said:

I really like the idea of a Green Lantern series but “in the vein of True Detective” and “terrestrial-based”? Why?

Exactly!  As for Waller, Peacemaker and Suicide Squad aren’t my thing, and I doubt this will be either.   No, I don’t see anything here that interests me.