Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[Avaleigh]

Original Cyn, OMG those recaps are hysterical! I feel like sending you a case of something right now because I don't think I've ever laughed so much over a recap of anything. It's been a little over 20 years since I read the books myself. I was around ten or eleven I think when I plowed through the first three family sagas and so while I have vague recollections of the stories, it's insane how laughably terrible it is when I read the recaps. I totally ate those stories up when I was a kid too.

I hope Lifetime does the Casteel series. I'd rather see that than My Sweet Audrina.

She probably wouldn't do it but I could so see Sharon Stone as Jillian Tatterton.

[Insomnia]

I just now got to see both the remakes of Flowers in the Attic, as well as  Petals on the Wind and I'm excited.

 

I was disappointed in the first run of the movie as it changed so many things from the book and pretty much killed off any chance of the other books being made into movies. I noticed that they are going to be making If there Be Thorns, and Seeds of Yesterday to come out in 2015, as well as My Sweet Audrina. No word yet on Garden of Shadows, but I hope it happens as well. My favourite series of the bunch was the Heaven series (Even though it wasn't technically VC Andrews by that point), but honestly I don't think I read past the Dawn series because they got too samey for me.

 

Anyway, the movies!

 

I really liked them. And I'm glad they did a time jump ahead in Petals and didn't have Cathy marrying her doctor, it would have been just too much for the movie. I wish there had been more with Carrie at the school and I wish the dolls and the house could have been the replica of Foxworth Hall. The big old doll didn't fit for me and Carrie didn't really either. She was short, sure but she still looked too mature for what I had in my head.

 

The only thing I was really disappointed in was Foxworth Hall. The one in the Lifetime movie just didn't cut it for me. It wasn't nearly big or imposing enough. The house in the first movie had it right. Take that house, smoosh it into the Lifetime movie and it would be perfect.

 

There were some really minor changes - Chris finding out about Corey, not Cathy, and I'm really glad this Cathy didn't put wax into the Grandmother's hair. This Grandmother while horrible, did seem to have at least a little humanity. And while Chris wasn't as openly worshipful of his mother, I could see the glint of where his feels for Cathy might have started. Corrine was spot on and I really can't wait for Thorns for her to finally get what she should.

 

And though I'm not a fan of them, I wish Bart had has his moustache, for some reason.

 

So, anyone else excited but the next movies, or did I just make a silly topic no one else will talk in?

[psychoticstate]

I just now got to see both the remakes of Flowers in the Attic, as well as  Petals on the Wind and I'm excited.

 

I was disappointed in the first run of the movie as it changed so many things from the book and pretty much killed off any chance of the other books being made into movies. I noticed that they are going to be making If there Be Thorns, and Seeds of Yesterday to come out in 2015, as well as My Sweet Audrina. No word yet on Garden of Shadows, but I hope it happens as well. My favourite series of the bunch was the Heaven series (Even though it wasn't technically VC Andrews by that point), but honestly I don't think I read past the Dawn series because they got too samey for me.

 

Anyway, the movies!

 

I really liked them. And I'm glad they did a time jump ahead in Petals and didn't have Cathy marrying her doctor, it would have been just too much for the movie. I wish there had been more with Carrie at the school and I wish the dolls and the house could have been the replica of Foxworth Hall. The big old doll didn't fit for me and Carrie didn't really either. She was short, sure but she still looked too mature for what I had in my head.

 

The only thing I was really disappointed in was Foxworth Hall. The one in the Lifetime movie just didn't cut it for me. It wasn't nearly big or imposing enough. The house in the first movie had it right. Take that house, smoosh it into the Lifetime movie and it would be perfect.

 

There were some really minor changes - Chris finding out about Corey, not Cathy, and I'm really glad this Cathy didn't put wax into the Grandmother's hair. This Grandmother while horrible, did seem to have at least a little humanity. And while Chris wasn't as openly worshipful of his mother, I could see the glint of where his feels for Cathy might have started. Corrine was spot on and I really can't wait for Thorns for her to finally get what she should.

 

And though I'm not a fan of them, I wish Bart had has his moustache, for some reason.

 

So, anyone else excited but the next movies, or did I just make a silly topic no one else will talk in?

 

@Insomnia, I watched both movies and loved them both for different reasons - - mainly because VC Andrews is a guilty pleasure for me.

 

I think the casting for the major characters was excellent in FITA.  I think Kiernan Shipka was the perfect combination for Cathy - - she was feminine while still steely at times.  She played off Mason Dye as Chris very well.  I think this version of FITA gave viewers a better idea of how long the kids were locked up versus the 1987 movie.

 

While I liked the actress playing Carrie in POTW and I thought she nailed her performance I didn't care for the one playing Cathy quite so much.  Maybe it was the script and not the actress' fault but I just didn't get the anger, rage and overall one-minded determination that book Cathy had in getting even with her mother.   I also didn't like the addition of the character of Sarah - - she didn't exist in the book and for good reason.  Chris was never able to get over Cathy.  I don't like that movie Chris was going to hurt someone and intentionally.  I also didn't care for the fact that the movie just moved on after Sarah walked in on Chris and Cathy making out.  No repurcussions it seemed, of any kind.

 

I think the main issue with POTW is that it was done in a 2 hour time frame.  The book itself covered at least a dozen years.  I understand why they elected to start it 10 years after FITA ended but it made the timeline wonky and suspect.  Cathy would not have just been entering the dancing world at 25.  We also had no idea based on the movie that she and Julian were married for 5+ years at the time he died.  Movie Jory was basically a blink-and-you'll-miss-him.  From the movie you would have no idea that Cathy truly did fall in love with Bart.

 

That said, I am looking forward to ITBT and SOY.  I hope they will give GOS a chance as I thought the book was good and completely turned around the entire Dollanganger saga for me.

 

And I am giddy with the thought of MSA - - that book is absolutely batshit crazy and I can't wait to see how Lifetime will handle it.

[Nighteyes]

I saw FITA and then read the first 2 books in the series, and I noticed something that totally escaped me when I read them as a teenager - every single man in the series is a rapist!

 

-Chris rapes Cathy in the attic. And, of course, he is a controlling, obsessive dick throughout the series who won't let Cathy move on.

-Paul, when recounting the story to Cathy of his frigid wife who killed their son, states at different times in PITW that he essentially raped his wife because she refused to have sex with him. If I recall correctly, he raped her the first time they had sex, I think because she kept refusing him (?? - someone correct me if I am wrong), as well as at other times during their marriage, whenever he came home from cheating on her. Paul!! The series' gentle, father-like role, who was the protector!!

Julian raped Cathy, and was also a pedophile. That surprised the crap out of me - it was just casually mentioned by Cathy, Julian's mother, and someone lee that Julian like "young girls", and then there was the whole thing where he sexed up Carrie (which, even though she was likely legal at the time, given that she had quite young features and was short short, she probably resembled a young pre-pubescent girl ). I was astounded when no one was disturbed by this - they treated it as though he just cheated on Cathy all the time with younger girls (compared to Cathy?? who was in her mid-20s herself) , but when you read between the lines, these girls were likely underage. And yet, no one was disturbed by this, other than that he was cheating.

-Bart raped Cathy on their first date.

 

I guess the only one who didn't rape anyone was Alex (Carrie's fiancee).  What the hell, VC Andrews?  

 

 

In a way, it's good that they changed the attic sex scene and cut Paul out of the movie completely. I have no idea, how, in this day and age, they could have spun a father figure being seduced by his teenage charge, whilst she tries to fight off feelings for her brother who raped her earlier. 

 

Also, in re-reading the series, I see why people call it the Twilight of our generation. It is so badly written - it's as though she sat down with a thesaurus when writing the series! However, despite the incest, Cathy was at least a strong character, who went about trying to write her own destiny. *She* wouldn't have sat at a window, staring outside for months on end because a boy left her. 

[psychoticstate]

@Nighteyes, if I remember correctly in the POTW book, Carrie would have been around 10 or 11, I think, when Julian and Cathy married and no more than 16 or 17 when Julian died.  She didn't tell Cathy about Julian's advances until Alex began talking to Carrie about getting married.

 

Funny (in a non- ha ha kind of way) that when reading these books initially as a teen I never picked up on how every major man in Cathy's life (save her father) either raped her or someone else.   Cathy's choices in men were clearly highly questionable - - and just about every character in the books was in desperate need of counseling.

 

ETA:  An interesting point with Julian is that he was interested in Cathy when she was 15 or 16.  He was her first date and she was 16 so clearly, he had a thing for young girls.

Edited August 5, 2014 by psychoticstate

[tribeca]

will this movie be on Demand?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Lifetime Greenlights Fourth "Flowers in the Attic" TV Movie

 

Not a huge surprise, but Lifetime officially said they are making Seeds of Yesterday! It will air sometime in 2015 (no big surprise since If There Be Thorns is scheduled for 2015 too). Some cast/crew details:

 

Although the book series also features the prequel story “Garden of Shadows,” Lifetime states that this will be the conclusion to the Dollanganger tale. In the movie, the family continues to coexist — albeit miserably — as their troubled relationships, dark secrets and tragedy come to a head.  Jason Lewis (“Sex and the City”) and Rachael Carpani (“McLeod’s Daughters”) will reprise their “If There Be Thorns” roles as the intensely intimate brother and sister Christopher and Cathy Dollanganger.

 

James Maslow (“Big Time Rush”) will also star as Bart Dollanganger.

Darren Stein (“Jawbreaker”) will pen the script for the pic and Shawn Ku (“Beautiful Boy”) will direct.

I totally approve of Jason Lewis playing older Christopher in theory but I feel like he's just a little bit too old to play him in If There Be Thorns and a little too young to play him in Seeds of Yesterday. Jason is 41 right now and looks it (not that I'm saying that's a bad thing). Chris is 39 in If There Be Thorns and either 54 or 56 when Seeds of Yesterday begins, depending on which timelime you follow in the books. Cathy always made such a big deal about how young and vibrant Chris looked so honestly I expected him to look like he's 30-35 in If There Be Thorns. I know that is some major nitpicking though.

 

I'm not sold on Rachael Carpani as Cathy but at least they finally managed to cast someone with blonde hair AND blue eyes. She is 34 and Cathy is supposed to be 37 in If There Be Thorns, which works for me, but she is 52 or 54 in Seeds of Yesterday, I really hope they don't do bad ageing makeup on her and Jason for the last movie.

 

Are they hoping that casting a Nickelodeon actor will bring in a younger audience for the last movie? Honestly I can't imagine watching the fourth movie in a series just for one actor, but that's just me. I hope he's a good actor because Bart is a huge role. No word yet on who will play Jory, my favorite character in Seeds of Yesterday.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Nighteyes, if I remember correctly in the POTW book, Carrie would have been around 10 or 11, I think, when Julian and Cathy married and no more than 16 or 17 when Julian died.  She didn't tell Cathy about Julian's advances until Alex began talking to Carrie about getting married.

 

An interesting point with Julian is that he was interested in Cathy when she was 15 or 16.  He was her first date and she was 16 so clearly, he had a thing for young girls.

Carrie was almost 12 when Cathy and Julian got married (they got married on Valentine's Day and Carrie's birthday is in May). When Cathy and Julian are in Spain (in May), she mentions that they have been married for five years and three months. Julian dies very shortly after when Carrie is 16. Carrie visited Cathy and Julian in New York the summer that she was 15 which is when I assume Julian molested Carrie, so yes, she was the same age that Cathy was when she met Julian (at the Nutcracker). He was 19 when he met Cathy which is still a significant age difference at that time in your life, but he was 26 was Carrie was 15. So, yeah. GROSS.

[bluvelvet]

Any  word on when the movies are coming out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Nope, when I checked last week, the only new information was that Lifetime is reairing Flowers in the Attic and Petals on the Wind on January 17th, so maybe they will have an ad with the air date for If There Be Thorns.

 

The only new info I found was some Seeds of Yesterday casting:

Jory - Anthony Konechny

Cindy - Sammi Hanratty

Melodie - Leah Gibson

Toni - Nikohl Boosheri

Lance - Andrew Herr

[Chrissytd]

Any  word on when the movies are coming out.

If There Be Thorns will air on April 5th, and Seeds of Yesterday on April 12th.

http://www.aenetworks.com/article/lifetime-premieres-original-movies-if-there-be-thorns-and-seeds-yesterday

[Scarlett45]

If There Be Thorns will air on April 5th, and Seeds of Yesterday on April 12th.

http://www.aenetworks.com/article/lifetime-premieres-original-movies-if-there-be-thorns-and-seeds-yesterday

Strange, I haven't seen any ads for it.

[Howyougetthegirl91]

Finally saw a promo for it today while watching The Perfect Assistant. Super pumped for it. I find it odd how they are playing the movies so close though. Maybe they can make it a series after? I think they are making Christina Ricci's movie a series now?

[bluvelvet]

Just saw the promo on Lifetime,  even though I thought Petals could have been a lot better I am still looking forward to this. However how many years have passed since the end of the last movie. I think in the book Jory was 14 and Bart 8?, however at the end of PITW they looked about 5 and 8, so technically Cathy and Chris shouldn't be that much older.

[Avaleigh]

My expectations couldn't be any lower so I'm bound to like them both, right? ;-)

 

It's too bad that they didn't just make this into a series but I do at least like that they're airing them together so closely. 

 

I wonder if the dance aspect will be amped up in Seeds or not. I remember thinking that all of the characters in Seeds were basically unlikable. Jory was a saint, Melody was a weak flake, Cindy was whiny and annoying, Bart was a self righteous douchebag, and Joel (?) the religious fanatic uncle or whoever who came back from the dead. He sucked too. Cathy was the only one I was interested in and she was basically gutted after Chris's death. I almost hope that Chris doesn't die quite as soon. 

 

Can someone with a better memory than me tell me if Bart has it out with Chris in front of the entire family or just Cathy? I also can't remember if Jory learns about the incest in Thorns or Seeds. Does Cindy ever find out? One last question: Was Bart attracted to Cindy or was he just a misogynist/misanthropist in general? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Can someone with a better memory than me tell me if Bart has it out with Chris in front of the entire family or just Cathy? I also can't remember if Jory learns about the incest in Thorns or Seeds. Does Cindy ever find out? One last question: Was Bart attracted to Cindy or was he just a misogynist/misanthropist in general?

Jory and Bart both learn about the Cathy/Chris incest in Thorns. Bart steals Cathy's manuscript (both he and Jory as well as John Amos read it). Jory initially finds out when his grandmother comes to visit and starts asking questions about Paul and Chris (Cathy never told her that Paul died so she has been lying about how Paul can't travel and why Chris is always the one who travels with her).

I don't specifically recall when Cindy finds out (either between the two books or near the beginning of Seeds) but neither she nor Jory cares because they love Chris as a father. When Jory initially finds out, he is grossed out but he realizes that Chris is a good man who loves them all so he gets over it pretty quickly (unlike Bart who is in therapy for years and blames a lot of his issues on Chris, insisting that he could have loved Chris if he had just stayed his uncle).

Bart hated Cindy from the very beginning, partly because John Amos was telling him about how evil blondes were and how they use their seductive wiles to manipulate men to do whatever they want just as Cathy and Chris brought her home.

Bart has it out with Chris in front of the whole family a few times in Seeds IIRC. He also refers to Cathy and Chris as brother and sister in front of other people several times in Seeds.

Edited March 17, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Snow Apple]

Bart was such a d-bag in Seeds of Yesterday that his last minute enlightenment after Chris died never redeemed him in my eyes, although I was glad it gave peace to Cathy.

 

From the subtext of the book, I thought Bart was fighting an attraction/lust to Cindy which made him act worse towards her than simple rivalry like with Jory.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yeah, Bart was such an adult brat in Seeds that his realization at the end was way too little too late for me. He spent the entire book lashing out against the only people who loved him (going after Melodie was way too far for me after all the love and support Jory gave him his entire life) so he was not redeemable for me.

I think Cindy represented a lot of Bart's jealousies and insecurities. She was pretty while Bart felt ugly and clumsy as a kid. She also got lots of positive attention from Cathy (as opposed to when she pitied him or yelled at him). Even more importantly, Cathy loved Cindy openly and without reservation or any of the guilt she had about Bart Sr.

I think Bart also resented both of his siblings for being able to look past Cathy and Chris's relationship so easily. Neither of them had any of Bart's hangups or OCD or required therapy and I think that bothered him too.

Cindy was like Bart's version of Corinne (as in Malcolm's mother). She represented all the things he hated about his mother but secretly wanted and convinced himself he would never have - a young, pretty, carefree girl to love him unconditionally. The sad thing is that Cindy did like him at first until he started scaring her, cutting her hair, and being a dick.

[portfino]

I don't know if he can act, but James Maslow looks magnificent in the promos.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo for If There Be Thorns/Seeds of Yesterday (the beginning of the promo says "the final chapters" and the tag at the end only shows the date for ITBT but based on how much we see of adult Bart, a lot of the footage is from SoY):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SrnD7jgvpA

 

Ha, the title of this video is pretty self explanatory:

 

Apparently they aren't going to try to age the actors who play Cathy and Chris in the final movie so we get that movie magic where the parents barely look older than their adult children. According to the books, when Seeds of Yesterday begins, Cathy and Chris are in their 50s (there was a discrepancy in the dates in this book so they are 52 and 54 but they should be 54 and 56), Jory is 29, Bart is 25, and Cindy is 16.

 

how many years have passed since the end of the last movie. I think in the book Jory was 14 and Bart 8?, however at the end of PITW they looked about 5 and 8, so technically Cathy and Chris shouldn't be that much older.

At the very end of Petals on the Wind, Jory is 6, Bart is 2, and Cathy has been married to Paul for almost three years. A few months later (after Jory's birthday), Paul dies so Cathy and Chris move to California. At the beginning of If There Be Thorns, Jory is 14, Bart is 9 (almost 10), Cindy is 2, Cathy is 37, and Madame M is 73.

[methodwriter85]

They did a really impressive job of getting someone who looks like she could be related to Heather Graham.

[psychoticstate]

ITBT was always my least favorite book in the Dollanganger saga - - mainly because Cathy wasn't the narrator but also because I always felt Bart was a jacked up little shit. 

 

The previews for both look good although I do agree that the "aged" Cathy is ridiculous.  She barely looks older than Bart.

 

Apologies if this has been posted but does anyone know if Lifetime is going to do a miniseries on Garden of Shadows?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITBT and SoY were my least favorite of the series because Bart is a holy terror (to be honest, I thought he was already a mess before grandma moved in next door). The one sort of interesting thing about ITBT is that we finally see Cathy from someone else's perspective. In the first two books she is always going on and on about Chris adores her and is the one pursuing her so I kind of like that we get some less rose colored views about her and Chris.

But at the same time, I agree that the lack of her voice combined with Bart's craziness makes ITBT one of my least favorite of the series. I dislike SoY because we get more of crazy Bart being an even bigger dick (see what happens when you give a crazy person lots of money?) but also because not much happens. You can sum up the last book in probably two or three sentences but the book itself drags on for way too long. It was the first VC Andrews book where I felt like the author was deliberately trying to make the book longer.

[psychoticstate]

I think my main problem with SOY is that it had a perfect, perfect little ending for everyone but Cathy and Chris.  Jory ends up with his nurse (and I hated that Jory ends up crippled and that Melodie cheated on him with freaking Bart of all people).  Of course Melodie had twins - - a boy and a girl.  Bart ended up "reformed."  Cindy ended up as some uber-talented actress. 

 

I liked that we got the conclusion for Cathy and Chris but jeebus, couldn't these two ever have a calm moment?  Bart is an absolute dick to them and everyone else - - after being a nightmare child - - and then Chris dies.  Ugh, just ugh.

 

By comparison I think Garden of Shadows was very well done.

[Snow Apple]

Like a poster above, the only thing I liked in ITBT was the outsider point of view. It was interesting because *we* know what's going on and why Chris, Cathy, and the Lady Next Door are acting and speaking that way, but the boys (especially Jory) had no clue.

[Queena]

Like others, I don't care for ITBT OR SOY. My wish list is for My Sweet Audrina, and the Heaven series, at least up until the last book, to appear on TV, soon. Especially Heaven,it's the best book out of every book ever written by the real Ms. Andrews.

Having said all of that, I will surely tune in next weekend, and any other weekend that bring V. C. Andrews books to life.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If they do the Heaven series, I would be totally fine with them leaving out the fourth book where Annie is at the mansion. The only useful thing that came from that entire book was confirming that Tony was the creepiest creep who ever creeped and that he was a lying liar who lied about how Leigh was totally into being raped. I also found the prequel useless because all it did was tell us what we already knew (Jillian was a bitch, Tony was gross, Leigh ran away when she got pregnant). Not surprising that Neiderman wrote those last two books. It makes me sad to dislike those books because I really liked the Heaven series when it began. The first two books were really good. I am kind of neutral on the third one though, partly because I started turning against Logan.

 

I would LOVE if they did My Sweet Audrina too. That was the creepiest thing VC Andrews wrote. What I like is that her three best books (Flowers in the Attic, Heaven, and My Sweet Audrina) are very different but they have a similar feel, if that makes sense. People always think of her as the incest author but if you only read those three books, there is only incest in FitA. The incest only really became a regular thing once the ghost writer took over (okay, fine she repeated the uncle/niece incest in the Dark Angel).

[Snow Apple]

Oh, the Heaven series. I had no idea Ms. Andrews passed away because this was before the internet. I just knew there was something.....odd.....about the 3rd book. It just wasn't "her." When I found out, it all made sense. 

 

Although I liked the first two books, I reread the 2nd one a few years ago and was bemused at all the exclaiming(!!!!!) and "flaring" Heaven did. Never noticed when reading it as a kid.

 

Also, I thought I read Lifetime is making My Sweet Audrina. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by Snow Apple

[TattleTeeny]

Bart is a holy terror (to be honest, I thought he was already a mess before grandma moved in next door).

 

He was--I recall him being a bit wacky early in that book, always creeping around and muttering.

 

My wish list is for My Sweet Audrina

 

Oh good god, me too. 

 

Although I liked the first two books, I reread the 2nd one a few years ago and was bemused at all the exclaiming(!!!!!) and "flaring" Heaven did. Never noticed when reading it as a kid.

 

There are so many things like that in all of VC's books! Some chick is always beating someone's chest with "ineffectual small fists" and then there's the ubiquitous, " 'YOU!' she spat," usually by whomever is the bitchy, bitter antagonist. Oh, and everyone saunters about in a "filmy negligee," haha!

Also...

http://www.thewrap.com/lifetime-greenlights-adaptation-of-flowers-in-the-attic-authors-my-sweet-audrina/

Edited March 30, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[Queena]

If they do the Heaven series, I would be totally fine with them leaving out the fourth book where Annie is at the mansion. The only useful thing that came from that entire book was confirming that Tony was the creepiest creep who ever creeped and that he was a lying liar who lied about how Leigh was totally into being raped. I also found the prequel useless because all it did was tell us what we already knew (Jillian was a bitch, Tony was gross, Leigh ran away when she got pregnant). Not surprising that Neiderman wrote those last two books. It makes me sad to dislike those books because I really liked the Heaven series when it began. The first two books were really good. I am kind of neutral on the third one though, partly because I started turning against Logan.

I would LOVE if they did My Sweet Audrina too. That was the creepiest thing VC Andrews wrote. What I like is that her three best books (Flowers in the Attic, Heaven, and My Sweet Audrina) are very different but they have a similar feel, if that makes sense. People always think of her as the incest author but if you only read those three books, there is only incest in FitA. The incest only really became a regular thing once the ghost writer took over (okay, fine she repeated the uncle/niece incest in the Dark Angel).

Dumbass Annie, oh how I hated that book. HATED IT! I tried to reread it as ab adult, horrible! Heaven and it's sequel were everything.

What about Garden of Shadows? I would love to see the lady who played the Grandmother as the Grandmother agin. She was one of the best things about the remake. Garden of Shadows was very good compared to every book after POTW. I dread watching that little shit Bart, but I'm V.C. bitch, and have been so every since I saw my Mom reading FITA. I wilk endure that little shit Bart, but I will need outside help, and commentary.

[callmebetty]

Loved Heaven and the second book. I would love to see those if done right.

[bluvelvet]

For some reason I thought "If There Be Thorns" would be airing tonight, did the last ones also air on a Sunday?

[Chrissytd]

Variety review

http://variety.com/2015/tv/reviews/tv-review-lifetimes-if-there-be-thorns-seeds-of-yesterday-1201463747/

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For some reason I thought "If There Be Thorns" would be airing tonight, did the last ones also air on a Sunday?

FitA aired on a Saturday night and PotW aired on a Monday (Memorial Day).

[Primetimer]

CALM DOWN, WE SAID 'MAYBE.'

Read the story

[KaveDweller]

This was really pretty bad.  Maybe it's cause this was my least favorite book in the series, but it just seemed pretty poorly done.

 

When Corrine was going on about how she wanted forgiveness, I was surprised Cathy didn't throw back something about how she killed Cory. That's even worse than the locking them in an attic.

[bluvelvet]

I have to say that I enjoyed that, probably the only person that did. I think they did a better job here than Petals, probably has to do with them having more time. I haven't read the book in years but I feel as if this adaptation got all the major plot points across.

The kid who played Bart was appropriately creepy. I have to say that that I don't think Jory's fornication was a big enough secret to stop Jory for telling his parents about Bart's odd behavior. Also I wish we had seen Chris tell Jory about the attic etc. I can't remember if Bart knew that part since in the movie Corrine (the actress is still not good btw, but less terrible) is essentially filling his head with lies.

Didn't see the point of Cathy constantly popping valium only to chuck them at the end with no mention of the issue.

Also continuity issue, at the end of Petals they were going by the name Dollaganger and here they are Sheffields?

Looking forward to the next installation.

Edited April 6, 2015 by bluvelvet

[Maharincess]

He was--I recall him being a bit wacky early in that book, always creeping around and muttering.

Oh good god, me too.

There are so many things like that in all of VC's books! Some chick is always beating someone's chest with "ineffectual small fists" and then there's the ubiquitous, " 'YOU!' she spat," usually by whomever is the bitchy, bitter antagonist. Oh, and everyone saunters about in a "filmy negligee," haha!

Also...

http://www.thewrap.com/lifetime-greenlights-adaptation-of-flowers-in-the-attic-authors-my-sweet-audrina/

And everybody has cerulean blue eyes. And even in the modern day books all of the girls have such old fashioned names.

[TattleTeeny]

Hahahahhahahahaaaa! YES!  And the protagonists are always completely irresistible to everyone!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Also continuity issue, at the end of Petals they were vouch by the name Dollaganger and here they are Sheffields?

I haven't watched the If There Be Thorns movie yet, but in the books the parents (Corrine and Chris Sr.) chose the name Dollanganger when they ran away and started over in Pennsylvania so that the grandparents (Olivia and Malcom) wouldn't find them. Cathy and Chris Jr. initially kept the Dollanganger last name because they didn't want to be Foxworths. When Paul legally adopted them, I'm pretty sure that all three of the kids legally changed their last name to Sheffield (I remember Paul saying something to it about Cathy in the PotW). Cathy would have become a Sheffield anyway when she married Paul at the end of PotW, which wasn't in the PotW movie since they killed Paul off in the first scene. After Paul died, Cathy and Chris moved to Marin and told people that Chris was Paul's younger brother who Cathy married after Paul died so they were known as Cathy and Chris Sheffield. Of course, that detail about Chris being Paul's brother really wouldn't matter to people who they met in California since they wouldn't care how Cathy allegedly met her third husband Chris. I think that story was mostly for the kids' benefit. The name issue was important for Chris since Sheffield was his legal name when he got his degrees (Corrine mentions in FitA that the reason Chris Sr. went into sales was that his degrees had the name Foxworth on them so he couldn't use them after they ran away).

 

Sidenote: Cathy chose the name Catherine Doll (which is what Christopher used to call her) as her professional stage name but when she went to New York, Madame Zolta told her that it was a stupid name so Cathy changed it slightly to Catherine Dahl.

[Maharincess]

Tattle Teeny, my daughter and I always say we're going to punch somebody in their curulean blue eyes with our tiny fists.

[bluvelvet]

In the books I assume Madam Zolta knew about Cathy and Chris, did she try to blackmail them as she did in the movie?

[TattleTeeny]

That was Madame Marisha, Julian's mom. But yeah--even with the changes from book to movie, wouldn't she have known Chris already as Cathy's brother? I mean, the PotW movie seemed to blow by a whole lot in a short time and didn't illustrate the details much, so maybe not?

Edited April 6, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yes, there were two different ballet madames in the books. Madame Marisha was Julian's mother and owned the ballet school that Cathy attended as a teenager in South Carolina. Madame Zolta ran the ballet company in New York, which Cathy joined after high school. In the POTW movie, however, they had the ridiculous plot where Cathy decided to become a ballet dancer as an adult so Madame Marisha was completely cut from the plot. To me it makes a lot more sense that Madame Marisha would blackmail Cathy since Jory is her grandson.

 

Madame Marisha knew that Cathy and Chris were brother and sister in the book because her ballet school was in the same very small town in South Carolina where Paul lived. Cathy started taking classes at Madame M's studio very shortly after she arrived in town so everyone knew that she and Chris (and Carrie) were siblings and that Paul had adopted them. It wasn't until Cathy and Chris moved to California that they started lying about being husband and wife rather than brother and sister.

 

Madame Marisha was very focused on ballet so I don't think she would have paid much attention to Chris being the brother of one of her many students if not for Julian. In the books, when Cathy started at Madame M's ballet school Julian had already joined Madame Zolta's company in New York. He didn't get along with Madame M or his father but he started coming home more often because of Cathy. They dated on and off, partly because he lived in New York and partly because she wouldn't have sex with him. Keep in mind she was only 15 when they met and this went on until she graduated from high school and moved to New York to join Madame Zolta's company with him. In the mean time, she fell in love with Paul, who insisted on breaking up with her when she went to New York because he wanted to let her be free to date guys her own age.

 

Julian always suspected that Cathy was in love with Paul and Chris. During one of their arguments he told Cathy, "I'm not blind, I'm not stupid and I've seen the way you look at that doctor—and so help me God if I haven't seen you look at your own brother in the same way! So don't go getting up on your high horse of morals, Catherine Dahl, for I've never seen a brother and sister so fascinated with each other before."

 

When Paul and Carrie went to visit Cathy in New York, he and Cathy got back together and decided to get married but they kept their engagement a secret. The night before the ballet company left for Europe, Paul's sister came to see Cathy and told her that Paul's wife (who he said had died) was still alive and in a mental institution. Cathy felt betrayed so she literally married Julian the next day. Julian was very insecure and jealous. He told Cathy that she belonged to him and that he didn't want Chris coming to visit them. When Chris finished medical school, Julian didn't want Cathy to go to his graduation. He beat her, raped her, and hid her passport so that she couldn't go. Cathy drugged Julian, found her passport, and flew back for Chris's graduation. Julian was furious so he called his mother to complain and then he replaced Cathy with her former roommate who she hated in an upcoming performance. Then Julian got into a car accident. He survived but his back was broken and the doctors said he would never dance again. He didn't want to live as a cripple who couldn't dance so he committed suicide.

 

I know that was a lot (and it illustrates why it was such a huge problem that they completely removed Paul from the PotW movie) but Julian felt he was in competition with Paul and Chris from the very beginning. He wasn't super close with Madame Marisha but she was still his mother and he told her about some of the problems he was having with Cathy. She definitely knew about Paul (which she mentioned to Cathy) but I am sure that she suspected something was going on with Chris from pretty early on.

 

In the books, after they move to California Cathy and Chris still go back to the East Coast once a year so that Jory can visit with his grandmother and Chris can see their mother at the mental institution. From the time they move to California, Cathy lies to Madame Marisha every year. She never tells her that Paul died (which makes no sense since everyone in town knows all the gossip when it's convenient but somehow Madame M wouldn't have heard that Paul died?) and every year when Cathy, Chris, and the kids go back to visit, Cathy makes up an excuse about why Paul couldn't come (mostly his heart problems).

 

Madame Marisha definitely had her suspicions about Cathy and Chris (in ITBT, she tells Cathy that she always suspected that Cathy would "succumb to [her] brother's adoration") but they weren't totally confirmed until she started interrogating Jory. In the book, she tries to blackmail Cathy into letting her take Jory. She claims it's to protect Jory because Bart is a psycho and Jory will suffer when Cathy and Chris's secret comes out (kids at school will tease him and then child protective servies will take him away), but it's mostly that she was obsessed with Julian becoming a star and now she wants to do the same with Jory (she grossly admits that all she and her husband wanted was to live through Julian and that Jory is now her only reason to live). Cathy refuses to let Madame Marisha take Jory so Madame M threatens to expose Cathy and Chris's relationship publicly, which is a huge miscalculation. Cathy tells her that she will never let someone force her to give up her children (as Corrine did to her). Madame M says she will do it, even if it hurts Jory, but then all the crazy shit with Cathy disappearing happens. I guess after all that, Madame M decided not to make things worse by spilling the beans.

Edited April 6, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Snow Apple]

I hated how Corrine still acted kind of evil(ish) in the movie, like threatening Chris. And what's with her sexy get up? In the book, she was a regretful old woman and looked it. She also died saving Cathy at the end. The movie took away that one act of finally saving one of her children.

[TattleTeeny]

There were times while I was watching that I thought Bart might actually be the sanest one in the family!

[Snow Apple]

What's with the snake? In the book, Bart wanted a pony but Corrine got a him a st. bernard puppy instead. 

 

When they made FITA, they made a point of saying they want to make it faithful to the books hinting the first movie (from the 1980's) wasn't up to snuff. So much for that promise.

 

Of course there's still no way I'm missing Seeds of Yesterday next week.

[Howyougetthegirl91]

I liked the film. Didn't understand why Jory would not just tell his parents. I like Jason Lewis , so I liked him as Chris. I thought Cathy was okay. I thought maybe they changed it to a snake to seem "darker" in some way.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Howyougetthegirl91

[KaveDweller]

That was Madame Marisha, Julian's mom. But yeah--even with the changes from book to movie, wouldn't she have known Chris already as Cathy's brother? I mean, the PotW movie seemed to blow by a whole lot in a short time and didn't illustrate the details much, so maybe not?

 

I remember some weird that where whenever Madame Marisha visited, they pretended that Cathy's husband was away and that Chris was visiting while that happened.  And Madame questioned it and her questions confused Bart.  Did that happen? I can't believe I would make up something that screwed up, but I could be mixing it up with one of her other books.

 

They changed actors in this movie right? Why are they willing to age up Heather Graham, but not anyone else?

[TattleTeeny]

Because Cathy and Chris (especially Cathy, as she reminds us 7,950 times in the books) are the most beautiful people who ever beautifulled in the history of the world!