S03.E10: Stingers

[DrSpaceman]

Coupled with the birthday ambush, this Pastor is either too brilliant or Paige herself is quite clever. I sense it's a mixture of the two. It's wonder that Philip and Elizabeth, whose job requires vigilance and an ability to anticipate the unlikely, get so wrong footed by Paige and seem unprepared for her curveballs.

I made this same comment basically after the episode where Paige and Pastor Tim at dinner inform them she wants to be baptized. Elizabeth comments she felt "ambushed" and didn't seem to know what to say. She is a spy that literally deals, according to this show, on a regular basis with literal ambushes and life and death situations, touchy social situations, etc, yet she can't handle a confrontation with her daughter and a pastor over baptism at dinner in her home? Seems a bit far fetched.

[90PercentGravity]

I'm surprised that Pastor Tim is so brazen considering how Phillip menaced him last season.

[maraleia]

I'm still apparently one of the very few who is really bugged by this episode.

 

She's 15.  BARELY. 

 

It's also interesting if you read interviews with the actress, who IS the same age as Paige.  She's all, "Woo!  Super cool!  I hope I get guns and stuff!  I hope I get to go on secret missions and maybe even blow something up!  It's SO COOL!  Paige is a SPY!  Woo Hoo!"  You know, like a normal barely-15 year old. 

 

So mom and dad both just leave her alone.  They don't put a quick tap on the phone line, or do their spy thing and observe her without her knowing.  They just walk away and hope for the best!  It's not like nothing is at stake or anything.  Forget their own freedom, forget their kids ending up in foster care, let all that go, but fanatic Elizabeth doesn't even care about all the crucial missions they are involved in RIGHT NOW can be blown to bit by a hormonal teenage girl?

 

Yeah, because everyone can keep secrets, right?  No teenager is going to spill a secret!  NEVER HAPPEN!  They are well known vaults of secrecy about secrets.

 

Oh, and I think Taffet is definitely playing Stan.  There is no way that look last week between Aderholt and Gaad didn't mean they are suspicious of Stan.  Also, if they don't have Stan AND Martha under surveillance then there is no way in hell this show is even close to reality.  Stan would have been under constant surveillance ever since he begged for Nina.

 

I hate to say it, but this episode really bugged the shit out of me.  Also, I'm getting petulant that so far, the reviews I've read aren't backing me up.  **foot stomp**

 

They are losing me, they've walked a pretty good line between real and entertainment for me all along.  Until last night.

FYI Holly Taylor is 17 years old.

[RedHawk]

In the travel agency scene Philip looked like he was about two minutes from giving Pastor Tim a death chop to the gullet. Pastor wisely chose neutral ground where Philip could not react as he might have in private.

[RedHawk]

Oh and also, great movies references at the movie Theater. The Sting and Tootsie, both movies about deception, lies and secret identities.

Not disputing your point, but the Paul Newman movie poster we saw was for "The Verdict", not "The Sting", which came out in 1973. Unless I missed an older poster somewhere? Edited April 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[Boundary]

I made this same comment basically after the episode where Paige and Pastor Tim at dinner inform them she wants to be baptized. Elizabeth comments she felt "ambushed" and didn't seem to know what to say. She is a spy that literally deals, according to this show, on a regular basis with literal ambushes and life and death situations, touchy social situations, etc, yet she can't handle a confrontation with her daughter and a pastor over baptism at dinner in her home? Seems a bit far fetched.

 

I actually buy it. Yesterday my reaction as I watched was that Elizabeth looked shaken, unsure of herself. It makes sense that only her family can make her lose her poise. Philip handled it much better coz he had practice, Martha put him through that recently, lol.

[dr pepper]

.

On a separate note, I'm glad to see Stan starting to put together his previously subconscious suspicions about Martha. He's been mostly useless for so long -- I want to see him be a more formidable adversary for Philip & Elizabeth. It's no fun watching a fight between Muhammad Ali and some random dumb kid with one hand tied behind his back.

 

It's not that bad. Stan is more like one of the Spinks brothers.

[pasdetrois]

 

Oh, it was never the Russian people that scared me - it was the KGB. the Kremlin - the government.

When I was in school in the deep south, several teachers would rail about the communists. Kruschev had made his comment about ""Your children will live under communism." One of my teachers used to scare me, insisting that the communists were just around the corner. School kids were warned about being bombed and we had duck-and-cover drills.

 

Anyhoo...I found the big reveal and its aftermath to be unrealistic and anti-climatic (although the acting was fantastic). Paige's parents wander off to work and leave her alone for the day. My attention wanders.

 

Until Neighbor Stan arrives for dinner. The look between him and Paige woke me right up.

[whiporee]

On the Paige keeping the secret front: lots of kids hide abuse and incest. Most are very protective of family. They might not be able to keep a secret that they like Bobby, but a tragically high number would keep the secret about Uncle Frank touching her. I don't think it's unrealistic at all that paige would keep this secret -- kids often have trouble with the little ones, but the big and tragic ones they're pretty good about keeping to themselves. 

[Haleth]

I definitely think Taffett is suspicious about Stan and the season will end with him being arrested.  Between his close relationship with Nina (Taffett will find out) and meetings with Oleg it certainly looks bad for Stan.

 

I didn't like the reveal to Paige at all.  I wish the story wasn't going there unless she is the one to (perhaps inadvertantly?) tip off Stan or Pastor Tim.  (Ohh, or maybe super sleuth Henry does.)  If there isn't a hint that Philip and Elizabeth are in trouble by the end of the season I probably won't be back for next.  (I hadn't heard it was renewed.  Last I knew it was close to being cancelled so I was hoping for a resolution with E and/or P being arrested.)

 

That said, young Holly is doing a bang up job.  Amazing how much she and the actor playing Henry look like siblings.

 

On another note, Tootsie will never not be funny.

 

Not disputing your point, but the Paul Newman movie poster we saw was for "The Verdict", not "The Sting", which came out in 1973. Unless I missed an older poster somewhere?

 

I forget what scene it was, but the music from The Sting was playing in the background.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Haleth

[RedHawk]

I forget what scene it was, but the music from The Sting was playing in the background.

Ok, I also thought that was possible. Good ear!

[DrSpaceman]

When the soviet pseudodefector was in the bathroom hiding the thing under the sink, the Sting theme song was playing outside in the lobby as the guards waited for her to finish

[RedHawk]

Speaking of, what did she use to stick the note under the sink, chewing gum?

I still don't like the entire Zanaida storyline, hate it actually. The actress and the character simply don't work for me. Zanaida sitting there eating her popcorn and chewing with her mouth open while also eating Skittles (or Kit Kat?) -- so we're supposed to think that's Willow's "imitation" of how a fresh, wide-eyed Soviet defector would react to American abundance and super-sized snacks?

Edited April 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[beeble]

The Sting theme song was turned into muzak everywhere for a while. And now I have an ear worm.  

[Mozelle]

Coupled with the birthday ambush, this Pastor is either too brilliant or Paige herself is quite clever. I sense it's a mixture of the two. It's wonder that Philip and Elizabeth, whose job requires vigilance and an ability to anticipate the unlikely, get so wrong footed by Paige and seem unprepared for her curveballs.

 

I think this may be what's rubbing me the wrong way about Pastor Tim. I find him to be entirely too familiar with Paige in the ways that he suggests she say this, that, and the other to her parents. When a parent (Philip, no less) expresses concern about the ways in which an adult behaves with his child, I would think the adult (being the adult) would try to heed the concerns? Instead, Pastor Tim just bulldozes ahead and backs up things like taking a 14 year old's saving or agreeing to what was essentially an ambush to talk about baptism.

 

It rings too much of trying to be seen as the "cool" adult, which I can see why Philip and Elizabeth are having such a time combating that. Pastor Tim has the luxury of not having to be the one responsible for Paige's day-to-day life (making sure she's clothed, fed, has a roof over her head, attends school, making sure grown ass men aren't hitting on her in department stores, etc.) so he gets to hear about life from a 14 year old and believe that he's got all the answers for her.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Mozelle

[RedHawk]

The look on Pastor Tim's face when he was talking to Philip about how P&E should come along on the Kenya mission was way too eager and aware that he was pushing a boundary. Philip's back was turned, and Tim looked almost gleeful -- he knew he was pushing Philip's buttons. Is he trying to get back at Philip for menacing him in his church office that time -- is that the bottom reason he's so involved in "turning" Paige for his church, to score that victory on Philip?

The guy is a creep. I've met leaders of these non-denominational churches (liberal ones as well as conservative) and it's always seemed to me that THEY were the center of the church rather than God and good works. Very ego-driven people. Paige fell into Tim's hands when she was looking to fill a hole in her life.

Also, the way he said, "I have a flock." UGH! So cultish sounding.

[sistermagpie]

I think they established the buddy situation between Stan and Henry this week because we may soon see Suspicious Stan using it to find out more -- by asking Henry -- about the Jennings' lives.

 

 

That might be harder than he thinks. Henry's like Philip, not like Paige. When Philip tried to get some info on church from him he was all "Why do you want to know?" When Henry talks to Stan it's Henry who pumps for information and snoops around for what he wants. Henry's a natural dissembler and secret-keeper.

 

Oh and also, great movies references at the movie Theater. The Sting and Tootsie, both movies about deception, lies and secret identities.

 

 

Holy shit. I was so thrilled to see them watching Tootsie it never even occurred to me to think about how the plot leads up to a whole climax of people finding out that this guy's been lying to him all along. The biggest moment is even Michael taking off his wig!!!!

 

Now I'm never going to think of that kitchen scene without imagining Philip announcing, "I'm Edward Kimberly, the reckless brother of my sister Anthea!"

 

Coupled with the birthday ambush, this Pastor is either too brilliant or Paige herself is quite clever. I sense it's a mixture of the two. It's wonder that Philip and Elizabeth, whose job requires vigilance and an ability to anticipate the unlikely, get so wrong footed by Paige and seem unprepared for her curveballs.

 

 

I don't think it really requires much cleverness. Elizabeth may describe Paige as setting them up, but it's not like she's created this big crafty manipulation. She simply brings along Pastor Tim, knowing that he's a) on her side (on the baptism issue the idea would have come from him no matter how Paige herself eventually arrived at it) and b) a guest in the house that will make it necessary for her parents to say yes or no (and given their behavior so far they'll say yes) instead of putting it off indefinitely. 

 

In this ep I think Pastor Tim did come about the missionary trip, but that he and Paige had also been talking about her just asking her parents about all these suspicions so since he knew she was working up to it he started his own part of the plan. Which was to introduce the argument that Paige was going to make (that she should be told the truth by the adults) and lay the groundwork for the next step in improving the family, which was of course a church bonding activity under his guidance. 

 

What's interesting is I think Paige always had more of a clue about the reality of this than Pastor Tim did, despite his breezy confidence (arrogance). Paige herself had only ever offered "affair" for what her parents were up to, and recently, with the revelations about Gregory, she'd come to the reasonable conclusion that maybe there was a radical past at work here. But I think that where Pastor Tim believed Paige that her parents weren't telling her something, I think he assumed that the secret would be more nebulous and sort of...ordinary. Like sad, from his pov, but something that could be fixed by bonding time in the church. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought this really would be about Philip's character flaws in some way.

 

I think Paige, though, underneath had a correct level of anxiety and maybe hadn't been completely open with Pastor Tim about all her suspicions. In the confrontation I think she is actually a bit scared once she starts talking. And I have to say that while she wasn't blowing me away with her acting in the scene, her look to her parents is pretty amazing at the end, when Philip spells out that she now has the power to put them in jail for good. She looks so sad, no just at what they've just laid on her but what they'd done to themselves and the scary position they're in. It's the ultimate "treat her like an adult" scene--they're trusting her with their lives. I'm sure the director was very specific with her about what she was seeing when she looked at them. It's a reversal of the opening of the scene---there she's asking something of them, now they're asking something of her. In both cases, the request has an "If you love me..." implication.

 

I think Pastor Tim would be more shocked than Paige was at the enormity of this secret, and I wonder how good he'll be at counseling her through the aftermath. Of course Paige can't tell him the honest details so he's handicapped by that. But I think also his advice won't always seem so easy to follow now. Like there's some things he could say that can still be applicable and even helpful, but Paige is dealing with serious philosophical issues now that Pastor Tim has probably never faced. It's like at that dinner when he's going on about asking himself "I will not kill, I will not die" for anything while we know that he's the only person at the table who hasn't faced and made that choice.

 

It rings too much of trying to be seen as the "cool" adult, which I can see why Philip and Elizabeth are having such a time combating that. Pastor Tim has the luxury of not having to be the one responsible for Paige's day-to-day life (making sure she's clothed, fed, has a roof over her head, attends school, making sure grown ass men aren't hitting on her in department stores, etc.) so he gets to hear about life from a 14 year old and believe that he's got all the answers for her.

 

 

Pretty much, yeah. He's always stood by his decision to take all that money from her, and brushed off never even checking with her parents as that was something that was practically the fault of Philip or Paige herself. He thinks he's got the answers to Philip's problems as well. There's also something a little interesting to me about the way that he always focuses on Philip, too. In some ways I get it--Philip is the one who showed up furious and since then Pastor Tim's obviously in his mind imagined a family where Philip is the negative influence. That's why he asks Paige specifically if her dad gives her a hard time--of course Paige herself says usually it's her mom, but then Elizabeth goes to church so Pastor Tim probably assumes that she's accepted Tim as the good influence that he is--maybe in his mind he imagines that if he could get them all on the mission trip he'd finally break through Philip as well and they'd all be at church. Like Elizabeth is practically there but doesn't want to make Philip mad or something.

 

But even though there's no explicit evidence of this, I also feel like there's sexism at play. His own wife just sits next to him and as if posing for Christian family pictures and backs him up, like she's just his appendage. And there's something about the way he smiles at Elizabeth in the premiere when he puts Paige together with the boy who likes her, like the two of them are of course on the same page about things--and then he goes behind her back on the baptism thing as well.  Elizabeth is the one spending all this time at the church yet they don't have any scenes together.

 

Also, forgot to mention this, but given our discussion last week about Elizabeth telling Betty that her mother was "in Russia" note that when Paige asked what country Philip and Elizabeth were from she said...The Soviet Union. Which I think was right for multiple reasons given the context.

Edited April 3, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Boundary]

The guy is a creep. ... Paige fell into Tim's hands when she was looking to fill a hole in her life.

 

I agree that something doesn't quite add up about this pastor but I have a more nuanced reaction. Is he a creep? I don't think so but he's certainly pushing the boundaries. Arranging both the baptism ambush and the confrontation is this episode is certainly the wrong way to go about it. A more respectable approach is to directly communicate with the parents. Same with accepting Paige's money, he should've talked to her parents first. No wonder they don't trust him as an individual, let alone the battle about religion in general.

 

However, he's obviously trying to help and isn't trying to hide his closeness to Paige. So that reflects his "professional" endeavours in a way. He is sneaky, to be sure, but his goal was to get Paige baptised and to get her to address her family concerns. I liked that Paige discovered her own boundaries, that some family secrets should stay family secrets but that only happened after Paige received from her parents what she thought had been missing, i.e. honesty. Having filled that void, she doesn't need the pastor in that sense. Going forward, the question will be, is the pastor going to be willing to let go of Paige as her bond with her parents strengthens and his hold over her weakens?

[ToastnBacon]

At this point I'm thinking that Henry has 1) found every possible hiding hole in the Jennings' home, 2) discovered the cache of weapons and disguises and everything else hidden in the basement, 3) taught himself to speak Russian via cassette tapes by mail, and 4) been sending coded messages to Arkady at the Rezidentura via that so-called "football game" he's constantly playing.

I got a good laugh out of that! Edited April 3, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[ToastnBacon]

Could it be that the looming shot of Philip sharpening the knife was supposed to be Paige's intensified view of what she usually not notice? Stan is no longer simply a nice neighbor but a possible threat, someone from whom Paige must now conceal something huge. She may be projecting that he's in danger, or feeling that if she sounds a false note her father might suddenly turn violent .

Where is that Stan and Henry relationship going?

Could this be how Stan finds out about Phillip and Elizabeth?

I think Henry might know more about than P&E than we think.

Maybe he has knowledge of something very incriminating without putting the pieces together himself. I can see him innocently telling Stan about his Dad's secret room or something along those lines.

Edited April 3, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[sistermagpie]

Going forward, the question will be, is the pastor going to be willing to let go of Paige as her bond with her parents strengthens and his hold over her weakens?

 

 

I really wonder about that. This might not be where the show is going at all, but given what we've seen of him it seems like if he immediately started noticing a distance in Paige he'd absolutely chalk it up to Philip intimidating her and ordering her away or something. Maybe he'll just fade into the background or continue to be a presence who's no longer so threatening, or he'll be threatening without knowing he's being threatening. But the way they've set him up they really have suggested that he would want to continue being her advocate with her parents. I don't think Paige would want her parents to come to Kenya now, for instance. That phone call did seem like Paige was now talking to him in a way that would probably remind her of the way her parents were to her. That's a big change from her previous eagerness to share family stuff. (I also think Elizabeth might do a similar pulling-back with Gabriel.)

 

I also remembered how much I liked that when Elizabeth started going on about the cause and making the world better and fighting for people who couldn't fight for themselves, Paige told her to stop. This is what Paige has been spouting all season, the thing that Elizabeth saw as the thing that drew them together and could get her on board, the thing that Paige subtly criticized Philip for abandoning. But in this scene, for the first time, that kind of talk just sounded sour. And yet it's not like Elizabeth wasn't completely sincere.

[soapfaninnc]

 

 

I also remembered how much I liked that when Elizabeth started going on about the cause and making the world better and fighting for people who couldn't fight for themselves, Paige told her to stop. This is what Paige has been spouting all season, the thing that Elizabeth saw as the thing that drew them together and could get her on board, the thing that Paige subtly criticized Philip for abandoning. But in this scene, for the first time, that kind of talk just sounded sour. And yet it's not like Elizabeth wasn't completely sincere.

 

I think if Pastor Groovy Hair looked less like David Koresh I'd not have such weird potential cult vibes off of him.  Televangilists - to me - are the used car salesmen of Christianity and he's certainly giving me that vibe. 

 

And I liked that too- especially the shade Paige threw Gregory's way. I hated that character and thought his sole purpose was to blow sunshine up Elizabeth's ass - like everyone doesn't do that already - every male that is. I'm not sure who is more of a Venus - her or Nina.  And I did like that for all her - I can't wait to tell her - Elizabeth was like - uh..... 

[SlackerInc]

Outside them telling Paige about being spies, this was a pretty dull episode, doesn't seem like much else happened.

 

 

Wow, different strokes.  I was on the edge of my seat for the entire episode.

 

For anyone else who might have felt similarly, this week's podcast from the Americans showrunners is especially interesting. They talk about this as being the most important episode of the show's run so far, and have a really fascinating discussion with the episode's editor. Apparently they had five hours of footage for him to edit, just from the one scene where Paige learns the truth--apparently this is an extraordinarily large amount for a scene of that length, with only three actors. They also rehearsed that scene a week ahead of time, something they've never done before. And his discussion of how he edited the final scene (with Stan there and Paige kind of freaking out) is really interesting too: apparently he put in one music cue, then another on top of it, and a backwards music cue on top of that. The use of a slight amount of slow motion as well was something they don't ordinarily do, but it had a powerful effect.

Edited April 3, 2015 by SlackerInc

[Crazy8]

What an episode! Can't fault the acting at all and the writing continues to be great!

I really can't shake the feeling that Pastor Tim isn't all that he seems. Paige's "It's happened" during that post-revelation phone call kinda made me consider the possibility that that young lady is being groomed by both sides. If she is being trained as a double agent by the CIA who already knew about the Jennings somehow then, damn, things are about to get interesting. I can't help but feel that Henry is somehow going to be important soon too. He's clearly inherited his parent's ability to keep a secret with his 'fap box'.

[ToastnBacon]

What an episode! Can't fault the acting at all and the writing continues to be great!

I really can't shake the feeling that Pastor Tim isn't all that he seems. Paige's "It's happened" during that post-revelation phone call kinda made me consider the possibility that that young lady is being groomed by both sides. If she is being trained as a double agent by the CIA who already knew about the Jennings somehow then, damn, things are about to get interesting. I can't help but feel that Henry is somehow going to be important soon too. He's clearly inherited his parent's ability to keep a secret with his 'fap box'.

Interesting theory because the writers of the show have told us before that the FBI and the CIA don't share much information about their ops. Even in this episode they showed how the KGB is so compartmentalized that Arkady wasn't surprised that a KGB agent had threatened Willow.

However, Pastor Tim being a CIA agent? Maybe, but I'm going with the theory that he is just a horny pervert who is after Paige for sex.

I too expect that Henry will be the focal point of much drama very soon. His story line has been building slowly, and I fully expect it to explode soon.

[RedHawk]

His own wife just sits next to him and as if posing for Christian family pictures and backs him up, like she's just his appendage.

That seems so off to me, and yet true to some fundamentalist churches. However, this is a progressive pastor/congregation, so why is his wife so in the background. Also, no children? "Because I have a flock"? They're the right age for kids and yet have decided not to have them, apparently. To me (even the child-free person that I am) that's odd. "Go forth and multiply" and all that. I don't think I've ever met a minister and wife who didn't have children, especially back in the late '70s and early '80s when "child-free by choice" wasn't a common thing. But well, it works better for the story so may mean nothing.

 

I can see [Henry] innocently telling Stan about his Dad's secret room or something along those lines.

Before Stan would have just shrugged and chuckled to himself that Henry must've found Philip's porn stash. Now he might just listen more carefully.

Edited April 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[UrbanShocker]

Great episode - as many have posted the acting was fantastic, especially from Holly.  I think Paige is too smart to tell what she knows to Pastor Tim, even if she probably feels like she should.  It's going to be interesting in the coming weeks to see how much of the operation Paige is let on to know - I'm guessing not much unless Paige again forces P&E's hand.

 

To the poster on page 1 who mentioned never playing Strat-O-Matic was only two people, on the contrary, my brother and I played all the Strat-O-Matic games (Football, Baseball, Hockey, Basketball) against each other, so you can definitely play with two people.  I spent many days as a kid in the '80s playing Strat-O-Matic and the Mattel version of electronic football - as mentioned in the recap, Henry's version was the Tandy knockoff. 

 

Last week the date on the old lady's pill bottle said 12/28/82, which probably means we're in the first week of 1983, more or less.

[lucindabelle]

Oooh! I know! Pastor Tim is secretly gay. Wife is a beard.

Thanks for that clarification! It was Mom (the one who had to ban the game due to the violence it engendered) who said it couldn't be played with 2. I bow to your knowledge.

 

We always had about 8 boys playing or more. It was scary. Mom and i would huddle in the den. Scared. It's funny now but though my oldest brother is in his 50s, that game is NOT coming out on our dining room table any time soon! I still remember seeing those dice flying across the room and one day the whole board...

[DrSpaceman]

I think Pastor Tim has simply served a role this season in being the one to prompt Paige to stop hiding her suspicions about her parents and to confront them about it, nothing more or less.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about liking or disliking him. At times he probably crossed the boundary between pastor/mentor and may have overstepped his authority, but I don't really think he is going to be possessively fighting over Paige if she turns away from him for some reason. He has a good sized church and other kids he works with, I am sure he sees kids come and go from the church for various reasons all the time. College, moving, change churches, lose interest, personal reasons with other kids, etc. On the show it makes it seem like Paige is about the only one he has any interest in in the youth ministry, but I doubt that is true, that is just our perspective of things because it centers around Paige. I just think he simply served a purpose in the story to help push Paige to advance her knowledge of her parents spy involvement.

I don't think there is as much to be read into Pastor Tim as most of us think and I don't think he is as important a character overall as some are making him out to be. Wouldn't even be surprised if he basically has as role this season and then not much next season. I view it as his purpose has kind of played out and his role may not be much more in the show

[sistermagpie]

That seems so off to me, and yet true to some fundamentalist churches. However, this is a progressive pastor/congregation, so why is his wife so in the background. Also, no children? "Because I have a flock"? They're the right age for kids and yet have decided not to have them, apparently.

 

 

Yeah, or else the wife couldn't have them. Though there you'd wonder why they haven't adopted just because the guy's obviously very into kids and it is almost expected that the pastor and his wife would have them. I had in the past assumed that maybe he had younger kids and we just didn't see them.

 

I don't think there is as much to be read into Pastor Tim as most of us think and I don't think he is as important a character overall as some are making him out to be. Wouldn't even be surprised if he basically has as role this season and then not much next season. I view it as his purpose has kind of played out and his role may not be much more in the show

 

 

 

To me it seems like his role in the future all has to do with how they want to play out the Paige stuff. She might find less solace in the church (and even be a little leery of the political stuff) for a while and pull back. That wouldn't mean that Pastor Tim would have to seek her out--but they actually do seem particularly close so it would be weird if he didn't check up on that at all. I know he seems to be more focused on Paige because we only ever see him with her, but he was the person he brought for her birthday dinner and she did call him personally to report on the talk with her parents--they've planned two things about her parents together. That's a little more than just him being a guy who supports her in youth group. 

 

So even if the plan is to basically phase him out, I think that would be shown. Like in this ep her phone call actually read as the possible beginning to that. Because Pastor Tim no doubt expected her to give him a detailed rundown of everything that happened and instead she basically told him it was over and withheld details. She stepped back, but said she'd see him on Sunday. So they might just leave us with the idea that Paige is continuing to go to church but is no longer going to be bringing Pastor Tim into her personal life on that level, or there might even be a scene where we see Paige having a different emotional reaction to the church because of how things have changed. 

 

It's never really been about Pastor Tim, at all (even if Pastor Tim always seems to make everything about Pastor Tim!). It's about Paige and her parents.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Henry killed me with his Eddie Murphy Mr. Robinson impersonation (used to love those sketches).

 

 

I'm surprised that Pastor Tim is so brazen considering how Phillip menaced him last season.

Me too, loved his asking PT "do you have kids", and PT's stuttering, sputtering response, and Phillip's calm "it's not the same."

Edited April 3, 2015 by BigBlueMastiff

[gwhh]

My uncle family all belong to this offshoot church of evangelicalism (yes that means, evangelicalism was not enough for them) and much like pastor groovy hair.  They would and do inset themselves into any situation for any reason and they always think they are right.  Pastor groovy hair would fit right in at my uncle church.  Especially, if one of the members of that church "need help" they would go in firing with both guns and no common sense!  So the pastor doing what he doing, seems to him perfectly normal and "good", because he doing in the name of God. 

 

Much like Phillip and Elizabeth beleive is doing what they are doing for the good of worldwide communist, USSE, etc!   No wonder they hate each other     

[paramitch]

I don't think anyone else has brought this up, but I laughed out loud at the moment in the episode when Paige asked Philip, "Are you trying to turn me into a travel agent?"

 

Keri Russell's outfits are absolutely perfect on this show. So many of them, usually when Elizabeth is being herself, tend to involve these silky, beautiful sighworthy blouses that just drape gorgeously on her, and in these tapestry colors (that blue blouse!). She also looked gorgeous in her hotel persona.

 

Meanwhile: "Tootsie" is one of my all-time favorite movies. It's incredibly smart, moving, funny, and has so much to say about love, gender, sex, acting... just a tour de force. What is interesting about the 'Tootsie" parallel, is that even though Michael has to lie, he wants (for truly loving reasons) to present Julie with the best, prettiest version of the lie possible. It's also interesting that it's about someone who lies about who they appear to be, but in doing so, discovers who they actually are. ("I was a better man with you, as a woman, than I ever was with a woman, as a man.")

 

In other words, what if the entire show ends with Philip and Elizabeth as actual Americans who slowly gained new belief in the U.S. only only while pretending to be Americans? It would be an interesting twist.

 

It's totally like Elizabeth to be full steam ahead and then choke when the moment's just too real. Also Philip's responses were a lot more...not truthful, but answers to what Paige was asking. Elizabeth wanted to get into her defense of the USSR and the Cause. Philip was there with the simple facts: we were born in another country. We work for our country getting secrets they can't get otherwise (iow, we're spies).

I was so surprised. I really thought they were going to keep it general all the way to the end, in order to actively perpetuate (perhaps) the myth that they were working for American or friendly interests (at least, at first).

 

At this point I'm thinking that Henry has 1) found every possible hiding hole in the Jennings' home, 2) discovered the cache of weapons and disguises and everything else hidden in the basement, 3) taught himself to speak Russian via cassette tapes by mail, and 4) been sending coded messages to Arkady at the Rezidentura via that so-called "football game" he's constantly playing.

I loved this so much. The thing about Henry this episode was that, to me, he was another symptom of how much Philip and Elizabeth miss. He is seeking connection and support, and turns to easily accessible parental figure Stan. I thought it was a pretty deliberate parallel -- just as Paige is turning to Pastor Tim, so too is Henry turning to another parental figure, Stan.

 

I did appreciate that she added solnushka ("little sun") to it. That was a nice, unexpected touch.

Learning little tidbits like this one -- that Elizabeth's endearment to Paige was more than just "I love you" are what make this forum for me. Thank you for sharing that!

 

I must be the only person who didn't like the Paige reveal. First of all, when she started demanding they tell her their deep dark secret "if they really loved" her, and then topped it off that Pastor McCreepy was involved in her decision to demand "the truth", I wish P or E would have told her that what goes on in the family is none of that douche pastor's business. In fact, I would have turned the tables on her and told her that they were very hurt and felt betrayed that she'd been talking about private family matters with outsiders.

To me, this would probably have been the smarter move--and one I suspect they'll wish they had as opposed to total honesty-- extremely soon. I just cannot see the reveal going well and I even wonder how Paige can possibly survive knowing.

 

Gaad totally knows about Stan's affair with Nina.  So not telling Taffet was not merely an odd choice, he has someone in the office who knows it is a lie...and it's the guy whose office was bugged, so you'd think Gaad would have mentioned the living hell out of it to Taffet.  Seeing as the super obvious stare of doubt that Gaad and Aderholt exchanged last week seems to support that Stan is no longer trusted. 

I wondered about this exact thing as well! Although Stan's decades-long pause before responding that no, thank you, there was no other woman, was probably a pretty blatant cue anyway.

 

Why the brevity? Like, we're spies, kid. Now go to bed. Big news like this should be accompanied with a Story. An abbreviated and much-censored Story, told with misty eyes and hot chocolate, a sentimental tale to warm a young girl's heart. Time enough later for her to learn the Whole Truth. Fed to her slowly and carefully, bite by bite.

I agree with this. They needed to keep it more general at first, play on Paige's sympathies, and talk at first about how they're simply working on making the world a better place. Although I still think they should have created more benign covers for whenever they needed to have this exact convo -- Elizabeth's been going to AA, Philip's been moonlighting as an emergency tech, just, something.

 

It's that part that makes him creepy to me.  Talking to Paige's parents as if he's her representative and knows her so much better, understands her so much better than her own parents.  It's insulting and it's arrogance cloaked in supposed righteousness. It's really quite-off-putting, I think. 

It is, to me as well. He has consistently forced his way into their lives and manipulated Paige into doing so as well, in ways that make me very uncomfortable (even though I do believe he isn't molesting her or anything). But it's just inappropriate. And perhaps the best example of patience Philip has ever shown was when Pastor Tim is smarmily telling him how to be a better father to Paige (!) and Philip just breathed, smiled gently, and asked him if he'd ever been a father, then quietly changed the subject. As Philip is often a seething mass of rage beneath the surface, I've never been more proud of him than in that moment because I would have thrown something at the guy!

 

The Sting theme song was turned into muzak everywhere for a while. And now I have an ear worm.  

The Sting theme that was playing was one of the ragtime pieces by Scott Joplin adapted for the film soundtrack by Marvin Hamlisch. Meanwhile, the tie of the "Sting" music cue to Zinaida's subterfuge and that of Philip and Elizabeth as a whole, and rolled up into the episode title of "Stingers" is just incredibly clever.

 

Holy shit. I was so thrilled to see them watching Tootsie it never even occurred to me to think about how the plot leads up to a whole climax of people finding out that this guy's been lying to him all along. The biggest moment is even Michael taking off his wig!!!!

 

Now I'm never going to think of that kitchen scene without imagining Philip announcing, "I'm Edward Kimberly, the reckless brother of my sister Anthea!"

Fantastic! I laughed out loud at this and it was glorious. For some reason, I picture Philip doing the scene while peeling off Dorothy's fake eyelashes too, just like Hoffman does. Because, awesomeness.

 

"That is one nutty hospital." (God, now I really need to go watch "Tootsie" again...)

[scrb]

Stan or someone else in the neighborhood should have noticed P & E's comings and goings at odd hours of the night.

 

If a 14-year old girl can be suspicious of the schedules they keep, why aren't any of the other adults?

[gwhh]

It was MUCH harder to tap a phone back in analog phone days.  Having an open real time tap on a phone line.  Took a LOT of effort!  Even when it was totally legal.  A friend of my dad.  Worked for the phone company back than.  He was one of the select few who the police and feds allowed to install legal phone taps for that regional phone company.  So the KGB having a tap and real time tap on there phone would not only be very hard, but if anyone from the phone company saw it he would know it was illegal right away.  And that would draw a LOT of police heat to the Jennings door and that would be really bad!     

 

 

The reality is that a KGB agent would be watching Paige, listening in on that phone call, and ready to put a bullet in her head should she start to spill.

[sistermagpie]

Stan or someone else in the neighborhood should have noticed P & E's comings and goings at odd hours of the night.

If a 14-year old girl can be suspicious of the schedules they keep, why aren't any of the other adults?

 

 

They know Stan's there and have mentioned this so they do make a point of being sneaky about their comings and goings. Paige is actually in the house so knows more of the time when they're there or not. She sees them get a phone call and then say they have to go. Stan's not seeing that--also he probably works long hours himself.

[kminfinity]

I am another who is very displeased with The Great Paige Reveal.  For lot of reasons already discussed, but especially because I agree that the KGB surely had to have a plan for this moment, and P&E did not follow it.  Because if there WASN’T a plan, these folks are big fools, and while I question a lot of the decisions (fact and fiction) made by spy vs spy strategy, I’m pretty confident that keeping the lid on secrecy is Job One.  So either….  P&E should have hustled Paige out and had Gabriel ‘assess and intervene’ even to the point of restraining Paige, or there should have been a cover story ready until THEY were ready to initiate the reveal in the hopes of recruiting Paige.  Even a short scene of Elizabeth insisting to Phillip that they need to notify Gabriel (with Paige listening right there, to see the priority) and Phillip rejecting the SOP would have made the whole reveal 1000 times better, imo, showing Paige immediately the shades between Phillip and Elizabeth.

 

A lot of people are criticizing Stan for lying to Taffet about another woman, because it’s so easy to check…except, as far as Gaad and the FBI knows (officially) he was playing her as an asset.  He was just doing his duty, same as P&E.  The romance/sex was him acting undercover, not ‘real.’  At least, that’s what I assume he’d say if challenged.

 

LOL at all of the spec about 'Henry, the superspy.  Especially Redhawk’s post.  :D   In support of Henry being more than meets the eye, his Mr. Robinson skit, revealing a definite subversive bent. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by kminfinity

[RedHawk]

LOL at all of the spec about 'Henry, the superspy.  Especially Redhawk’s post.  :D

 

 

 

Thanks! I hope everyone also noted Shura added a #5 to my list, which was the perfect capper:

 

5) in the season finale, [Henry] will reveal himself to Philip and Elizabeth as their new handler.

 

Edited April 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[lucindabelle]

 

A lot of people are criticizing Stan for lying to Taffet about another woman, because it’s so easy to check…except, as far as Gaad and the FBI knows (officially) he was playing her as an asset.  He was just doing his duty, same as P&E.  The romance/sex was him acting undercover, not ‘real.’  At least, that’s what I assume he’d say if challenged.

 

That makes so much sense, he should have just said that. Because the truth is, the infidelity killed his marriage and even if his wife didn't know exactly who or what, it did, and it won't be hard to discover that. All they have to do is talk to her. He admitted it to her, after all.

[TimWil]

Something tells me that in the Season 4 premiere Stan will present Henry with a confiscated bootleg copy of War Games and everyone will sit down to watch it. Awkward.

[RedHawk]

She sees them get a phone call and then say they have to go.

 

 

Speaking of, that was what finally determined Paige to demand answers. Philip took one of those calls and so smoothly went through the "Oh geez, one of our employees once again has messed up and failed to do an important yet routine office chore. Which must be done immediately. So I as the agency owner must go do it now. And it will take quite a while so I'll miss dinner and family TV time. Sorry this happened yet another evening. [grabs car keys] Goodnight, family!"

 

The thing is, Matthew Rhys played it so perfectly. He went through the usual routine that happens when Philip gets a call and has to disappear suddenly, but this time he did it too smoothly, with no sign of surprise or annoyance or hesitation. He had Philip "act" it poorly and too routinely. Take phone call, explain and make excuse, grab keys, "'Bye family!" Paige has seen it SO many times and we know she's been suspicious about it for a while. She just was sick of the obvious lie and deceit, and her parents expecting her to either believe it or swallow the lie. When she finally demanded answers from P&E, she could have prefaced her speech with "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

Edited April 4, 2015 by RedHawk

[SeanC]

Stan really needs to stop holding secret meetings with a KGB embassy staffer at a time when his office is conducting a hunt for a KGB mole.  Somebody could get the wrong idea.

[RedheadZombie]

I think they established the buddy situation between Stan and Henry this week because we may soon see Suspicious Stan using it to find out more -- by asking Henry -- about the Jennings' lives.

 

This would be interesting.  Even more so - Mathew talking to Stan and telling him certain things Paige may have confided in him.   Super spies Philip and Elizabeth, brought down by their American kids.

 

I don't think Pastor Tim is likely molesting Paige or any of his "flock" (that word bugs me, I'm not even sure why...wait, yes I am, it's a hair's breadth away from referring to people as sheep) ....I just think he's rather smugly self-righteous and has convinced himself he's essential and involved in the lives of all of his parishioners.  That he has some special status within their families.  

 

Well, "The Lord is my Shepherd ......".  The metaphor is pretty common in Christianity.  And I would add that most pastors do have special status with their parishioners.   The pastor provides counseling and guidance, visits you when you're in the hospital, and nurtures your spirituality.  He's there for your weddings, baptisms, graduations, and funerals.  Paige has invited him to act in this manner with her.  Elizabeth is attending meetings and pretending interest.  He's been invited to their home for dinner.  It's not like he came knocking on their door and proselytizing. 

 

Talking to Paige's parents as if he's her representative and knows her so much better, understands her so much better than her own parents.  It's insulting and it's arrogance cloaked in supposed righteousness. It's really quite-off-putting, I think. I've long led the charge in "Wait, what do they even think will happen when they tell Paige this?"  because it's sort of natural to assume she might freak out and turn them in.  I think Phillip and Elizabeth just went to work waited to see if their lives as they knew them were over, because it was essentially out of their hands at that point.

 

Well Paige is sort of making him her representative.  As far as we know, Paige told him for months that she wants to be baptized, but can't bring it up to her militant atheistic parents.  Followed by the pastor offering to talk to Philip and Elizabeth.  I think the pastor handled the last confrontation properly.  Coached her on how to talk to her parents, tell her parents how she feels, stress to them how strongly she feels on the subject, and give them the opportunity to tell her the truth.  I don't care for the actor, and I'm not crazy how they're portraying the character, but I don't really have a problem with him (other than taking Paige's money).  As someone upthread pointed out, Paige is repeatedly going to Pastor Tim and confiding in him.  He sees a girl who's deeply troubled, who feels her parents are living a lie, and quite possibly knows that Paige and Henry are home alone - a lot.  And have been for years. 

 

He's obviously having a very positive affect in Paige's life, and is filling a hole left vacant by her parents.  I'm going to need to see more before I dismiss him as a cult leading child molester.  At this point, he might be the person who provides Paige the support she needs when her parents ultimately get killed or arrested.  It's not like this guy is calling child services - which is the easiest way to appease your conscience and pass the problem on. I know it's a TV show and we've been trained to suspect everyone's motives, but you'd think no one's every heard of Big Brother/Big Sister, mentors, etc.  There are adults helping kids they're not related to, and most of them are doing it without molesting them.

 

However, he's obviously trying to help and isn't trying to hide his closeness to Paige. So that reflects his "professional" endeavours in a way. He is sneaky, to be sure, but his goal was to get Paige baptised and to get her to address her family concerns. I liked that Paige discovered her own boundaries, that some family secrets should stay family secrets but that only happened after Paige received from her parents what she thought had been missing, i.e. honesty. Having filled that void, she doesn't need the pastor in that sense. Going forward, the question will be, is the pastor going to be willing to let go of Paige as her bond with her parents strengthens and his hold over her weakens?

 

I have no idea what's going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if Paige starts withdrawing from church and Pastor Tim.  Whether it's because she will find it too difficult not to confide in the pastor, feeling she's unworthy because of her parents, or simply loses some of her newfound faith.  She may also find it difficult to pretend that all is well, if Pastor Tim knows her well enough.

[beeble]

Fantastic! I laughed out loud at this and it was glorious. For some reason, I picture Philip doing the scene while peeling off Dorothy's fake eyelashes too, just like Hoffman does. Because, awesomeness.

 

This. Is. Awesome.

 

Yes, paramitch,  this is definitely one nutty hospital.

 

(What wouldn't I give to have Bill Murray come in and play some government official…)

[RedHawk]

As far as we know, Paige told him for months that she wants to be baptized, but can't bring it up to her militant atheistic parents.

 

 

Does she see them as militantly atheistic, or just as casual non-believers? Somewhere in the middle?

 

I doubt they've gone full Communist "God does not exist" on her. They probably just ignored church like many adults with children do, and Paige never questioned why until she met a Christian girl who introduced her to church and faith and Pastor Tim. (I'm confused. Did Paige start going to Tim's church because of the girl on the bus, or how? Didn't she at first try to call that girl and talk about what her parents had just revealed? I need to rewatch... Why don't we ever see that girl at the church?)

 

Maybe when she was young she might have asked and been told, "Well, we're just not believers and we have other things we like to do on Sunday mornings." Nothing that was too negative, most likely. Maybe the most they ever did was talk about how bad the televangelists were: not trustworthy, leading gullible people on, taking their money to buy fancy cars and homes, etc. as there were a lot of them in that era.

[Umbelina]

Just wanted to mention (in response to a few comments here and there) I DO think Liz and Phil had contingency plans and other stories the could have told either kid, and they would have done that with Paige, except the KGB is pressuring them to reveal themselves to her and recruit her.    So, they did.

 

Witness protection would have be perfect, "Dad testified against some bad people, was so brave, but now..."

 

Still not happy with this storyline, and yes, I can see many great/cool ideas for new stories that will spring from it, but I'm not sure that will help me much.  If they all come from BS, it will be hard to take them seriously.  I shall try!

[SunnyBeBe]

I hope Paige is not as afraid of Communist and The Soviet Union as I was when I was younger.  In the 1970's I was subjected to a very disturbing film that was played in a church about the horrors of communism.  It was totally inappropriate for children.  I can not believe the adults didn't realize this. It took me years to recover from the trauma and I had to do a lot of reading about communism and The Soviet Union to educate myself.  Talk about propaganda.

 

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/kooky_paranoiac_christian_anti-commie_masterpiece_if_footmen_tire

[BetyBee]

Holly Taylor has beautiful hair.  That said, that braided style she wore for much of the show did not look very 80s to me.  She would likely be sporting styled bangs, but I suppose they just can't do that to the poor girl!  When I saw the previews for this episode, I thought she was going to tell her parents she was going to be a child bride or something. 

 

I did enjoy the episode.  The actress did a great job and made me really feel how horrifying such news would actually be.  I don't know if she feared for her own life or Stan's when Phillip was sharpening the knives.  I do think that Phillip's comment that she has been so much more observant since getting baptized...was ridiculous!

[RedHawk]

I love that this show always has a small moment or two of inside-joke, black humor type fun just to relieve the tension. They usually go by in a flash so you either get it and enjoy it then perhaps forget it as the tension resumes, or you miss it altogether. 

 

When Paige goes to the travel agency Philip gives her a stack of paperwork and urges her to help finish them so they can all get home to dinner sooner. She says with a smile, "Are you trying to turn me into a travel agent?" Elizabeth laughs a convincing-enough fake laugh and then does this little trailing sigh: "Hahaha, ehhhhh..."

 

I rewound it four times. Without black humor -- and the occasional joint -- these two would have lost their minds years ago.

[RedHawk]

I do think that Phillip's comment that she has been so much more observant since getting baptized...was ridiculous!

 

 

Philip was making a joke/pun. Observant as in "observing the scriptures". (Dictionary definition: 1) quick to notice things 2) adhering strictly to the rules of a particular religion.) Stan got it and sort of winced like "bad pun dude". I credited Philip was thinking fast because there was so much tension and weirdness in the air. He was trying to distract Stan and give Paige a moment to pull herself together. What a time to have your FBI neighbor-buddy show up to dinner!

 

Edited to add: Now that I re-watched, it's not clear that Philip realized he made a pun, and Stan's reaction is not that he "got" it. Guess my mind is going...

Edited April 4, 2015 by RedHawk