S04.E17: Best Laid Plans

[yeswedo]

Hook tells Emma that her fate is at stake in Gold's plan while Regina leads the villains on a wild goose chase. Henry makes a breakthrough in his search to find the Author, but Mary Margaret and David need a moment to reconsider the best course of action. In a Fairy Tale Land flashback, Snow and Charming search for a way to ensure their child will grow-up to be a hero. When a traveling peddler directs them to visit a kindly old hermit, Snow and Charming are presented with a choice that could secure their child's goodness, but at a price that will haunt them for years to come on.

[SilverShadow]

If it doesn't turn out the author somehow overrode Snowing's free will I will be SO PISSED. And I have a feeling I will also be pissed because then all of Gold and Regina's worst decisions-nope, they didn't really do that. Author. Fuck that.

[InsertWordHere]

That was so stupid.

 

When not being annoyed by the stupidity, I did manage to amuse myself by imagining Aurora running around town pulling pranks on sleeping people. Now that's the type of Disney princess gone bad story I'd like to see.

[Mari]

How is being trapped in the book any more insane than anything else this show has come up with?  It doesn’t seem particularly crazier than, say, being in stasis for 28 years, or pixie dust true love, or baby Hitlers?

 

So, Regina’s bright idea of taking a picture of the door is what made them realize that’s where the Author is? 

 

“First and best friend.”  Um  . . Unless there’s a lot the show hasn’t told us yet--which is possible, granted--Emma, you spent three hours together.  What?  That’s one Lord of the Rings movie, not a serious friendship.  If it’s ⅓ of the time it takes a Hobbit to complete a quest, it’s not an epic friendship, yet.

 

Yes, Snow and David, you should absolutely trust random, mysterious people you meet in the woods when you don’t even know their names and have no other information about them whatsoever.  That’s definitely a choice you should be making.  Oh, wait . . .that totally bit you in the butt, didn’t it?  And now you can’t stand the thought of your own baby?  Lovely.  Teeny, tiny point, though:  If you did this wrong, evil thing?  How did you pass through the pure heart door?  Explain that, show.  Please. 

 

Free will exists--according to mysterious hermit guy--and Snow and David decided to take away Emma’s and eggbaby’s?  Yuck.  And if free will exists, how come Regina needs the author?  Hers didn’t kick in, or something? 

 

I’d like to point out that Maleficent torched a village, right?  Presumably, it had children in it.  They didn’t count?  Your baby didn’t deserve what happened, but, well . . .  Why do bad things only count as bad on this show if they happen to a villain?

 

Well, Rumple, you’re winning all kinds of Grandfather awards, and proving to the universe just how much you deserve that Happy Ending.  And creeping on your sleeping wife?  Really?

 

If all the darkness and evil potential was sucked out of Emma and pushed into eggbaby, how can they possibly turn Emma dark?  Since, you know, all the dark was sucked out of Emma and pushed into eggbaby, making her antiEmma?   Unless meeting Lily--because you know it’s the same one--redistributed the evil potential back to Emma?

 

Good side--at least we got a reasonable explanation for how Ursula and Cruella ended up in our world.

Still hating this Author plot.

[Bluerang1]

Welp I called the peddler being the author from the moment the spoilers were revealed. Didn't know he'd turn out to be evil though. He's the ultimate big bad now. How does Walt come into play? And why didn't he give the Grimm brothers a shoutout. But I'm loving this whole author/sorcerer thing. It's very LOST. I really should watch LOST haha.

 

Also screw Snow and Charming that's absolutely horrible. 

[Worsel]

My thoughts during the episode:

 

Emma and Henry must be deaf because they did not hear her parents loudly whispering their worries three feet away.

 

I still love Maleficent’s Storybrook clothing.  But I hate the horrendous red-orange lipstick.  And Snow still has bad hair in the EF. Once again I beg of the producers to stop this madness.

 

My favorite Cruella quip of the night: “If I’d known it would be this cold I’d have grabbed two more puppies and made mittens.”  Ha!

 

Snow and Charming’s baby-napping was villainous. Well at least now we know how Cruella and Ursula got to our world.  It really hurt to see Emma’s look of betrayal once they fessed up; I enjoyed that scene, Jennifer Morrison did a great bit of acting.  I liked when Hook comforted her also.

 

Yay!  A Sneezy scene!  I want to see more Dwarves.

 

Hey Snow and Charming: How about you apologize to Maleficent and try to find and retrieve her baby?  Why don’t you ask the fairies if they could help?  No?  You’ll just decide you’ll be “good” from now on and put it behind you…

 

Oh great, there are lots of authors.  Including Walt (Disney I assume).  And a rogue villainous author, who just happens to be the roadside Peddler.  Sigh.

[Curio]

So, let me get this straight...

 

• The show has built up Snow and Charming's big, bad secret for multiple episodes, but when they finally decide to tell Emma their secret, we jump straight to the aftermath. The entire conversation where the actual character drama would have occured - the difficult reveal where Snow and Charming had to come clean and tell their daughter the truth - all happened in Offscreenville.
• Oh, and apparently no one has free will because this author figure has gone rogue and is forcing people to do things they don't want to do.

 

Am I clear on those points? I just want to make sure I wasn't going crazy and the show is actually this terrible.

[snarkastic]

Good side--at least we got a reasonable explanation for how Ursula and Cruella ended up in our world.

 

Not really. How did they not age those 28 years? How did they not just raise Lilly for Maleficent? Why were they suddenly presented as bumbling idiots this flashback?

[Bluerang1]

Also how does August even know so much?

 

Emma looked just like her younger self in the scene at the dock with Killian. I didn't really think that the younger actress looked like Jennifer but know I definitely see it.

[KingOfHearts]

So much plot in this episode... 

 

Pros:

* Cruella's violent tendencies. Never change, Ms. DeVil.
* I'm glad the plot actually advanced and did some twisty maneuvers. Finally getting a little risky.

* I still can't help but feel sympathetic toward Maleficent. 

* Emma creating the page forgery with magic made me happy inside.

* Thank God that Snow and Charming's stupid secret business is over.

* Found Cruella and Ursula passing out hilarious. They're the best bumbling henchmen ever. The "trip" into the portal was so cheesy it was funny.

* The Author's identity is finally out of the way.

* I really liked Emma in this episode. I love how she totally went against the Author stuff and told them she wasn't going dark.

 

Cons:
* When August said the Author's job was to record, I was happy. I cannot take this crap that he dictated what happened later. That was just so stupid and made absolutely no sense.

* Alright, Apprentice, if evil isn't born but made, then how were you able to put darkness into a pre-born child and make Emma "good"? If you say each baby is born with free will, how is it that the Author can force them to do what he wants?

* The Author is the Peddler... totally didn't see that trope coming.

* Rumple you are CREEPY. Carrying Belle and talking to her after your cohort knocked her out. Disturbing as flip.

* So Snow decided to tell the truth because of Regina? Really?

* How the heck did Emma, Hook and Henry NOT hear Snow/Charming whispering in the loft?

* I'm disappointed we didn't get to see the conversation where the secret was revealed. We saw that Emma was upset, but we didn't get to see how she got to be or what hurt her the most. Sounds like they kept it vague so her "going dark" would be more available.

 

Rumple is so gonna die.

Edited March 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Jul 68]

I had to get off of Twitter. Too many people singing the writer's praises for the 'Walt' reference.

[YaddaYadda]

So, hmm...I don't really know where to start other than to say that these people are all idiots.

 

Am I getting it right that the Peddler guided Snowing and the Apprentice to do what it is that they did?  I mean his stuff reeked of manipulation right off the bat.  So did he actually take away everyone's free will?

 

My big thing is that we found out how Ursula and Cruella ended up in the LwM.  So bonus points that I would just like to take away.  I hated what they did to that baby.  It's like baby born out of evil bitch will also be evil.  Baby born out of heroic parents should be heroic and I just...blech!

 

ETA - This episode was so very so-so that I'm okay taking a two week break from this.  I really could give a fuck about Robin and Zelena who apparently knew each other prior to everything that happened last season.  Awesome!  Just very awesome!

Edited March 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Mari]

Not really. How did they not age those 28 years? How did they not just raise Lilly for Maleficent? Why were they suddenly presented as bumbling idiots this flashback?

Because reasons?  I'm sure they're good ones.

Well, crap.  You're right.  One of the few bright spots gone, now.

 

 

 

 

* So Snow decided to tell the truth because of Regina? Really?

 

Well, it's been pretty firmly established that Regina is more important to Snow than most other people--including her own child.  Of course, because of Regina.

 

I had to get off of Twitter. Too many people singing the writer's praises for the 'Walt' reference.

People were impressed with the predictable Walt reference and completely ignoring the bizarre, weird, mish-mash of the episode?  This fandom . . . maybe we get what we deserve.

[Worsel]

* Alright, Apprentice, if evil isn't born but made, then how were you able to put darkness into a pre-born child and make Emma "good"? If you say each baby is born with free will, how is it that the Author can force them to do what he wants?

 

I assume that while everyone believes magic will actually make someone good or evil, in fact that is a lie.  Because you just cannot reconcile that with the "free will" that continues to be promoted by the show as truth.

[brisbydog]

Did Rumple indicate that he is aging normally now and is running out of time? Weird comment to Belle when he was creeping on her

[KingOfHearts]

 

People were impressed with the predictable Walt reference and completely ignoring the bizarre, weird, mish-mash of the episode?  This fandom . . . maybe we get what we deserve.

This episode put way too much "payoff" and plot movement into 42 minutes, if you ask me. I wish it would have focused more on the Charming family fall-out and how Emma felt about it instead of Snow and Charming rehashing their guilt every other scene. Then they stuffed in the Author and Lily stuff, and it was all more about getting the reveals out of the way than what was critical to the actual episode's story. This episode should have been about the revelation and how the characters were dealing with it instead of Author PLOT PLOT PLOT.

 

 

Did Rumple indicate that he is aging normally now and is running out of time? Weird comment to Belle when he was creeping on her

He had his hand on his chest, so I'm wondering if he has some sort of heart problem or magic corruption or something. His talk about his debt may be about his dark heart getting too dark. IDK.

 

 

I'm happier about this author storyline now but still so confused. I feel like the author wasnt writing bad endings for the villains as much as he was perhaps distorting the truth or maybe inserting himself into the story -- being the peddler influencing Snowing for example.

When the Apprentice came up to the Author and said how morally corrupt it was to banish that baby, all I could think of was A&E being the Author and this board being the Apprentice.

 

A&E: "It makes for an interesting story!"

Us: "But it's wrong!"

Edited March 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

I'm happier about this author storyline now but still so confused. I feel like the author wasnt writing bad endings for the villains as much as he was perhaps distorting the truth or maybe inserting himself into the story -- being the peddler influencing Snowing for example. But I'm hoping this is similar to Regina's speech at the town line when Pan's curse was coming. Your past may be set as evil regardless of how the author told the story, but your future is yours to make.

But again, I don't really get it. For a campy family show, things are getting confusing. I feel like it's a situation where the writers are too close to it. They've thought it all out, it makes sense yo them, but the rest of us seem to be missing half of the storytelling. Maybe Storybrooke isn't the only place where a clear author is necessary.

I loved seeing August again like this. Can't we keep him? Please? And I loved Killian on the docks telling Emma that her friend was awake. He was trying to be so sweet and understanding while also obviously getting a bit of a dig in.

And of course, Captain Swan was all that and a bag of chips,

Got some knitting done during the flashback. That's about all it was good for. Oh, and it was good at explaining how Ursula and Cruella got here. Although why didn't they raise Mal's baby? I thought they were buddies. Why happened there?

[scenicbyway]

So now we know how Cruella and Ursula got to the land without magic...why didn't they just raise Lily????!!!

 

I'm side eyeing that scene hard with Hook and Emma hugging, Henry just sitting there and Charming and Snow having a full convo about being found out by Emma.  There's know way the rest of them couldn't have heard them!

 

Is the entire town now immune to the sleeping curse?  Thanks a lot Mal.

 

I do like how the story played out in the EF, Snow and Charms did regret their decision.  The Peddler is just a Meddler/Writer.  So I guess the Apprentice is the Sorcerer?

 

Watching the preview for the next episode just makes me mad.  Is the writing team out of ideas?

[InsertWordHere]

 

Also screw Snow and Charming that's absolutely horrible. 

Who? I didn't see those characters in this episode ;) Yes, my denial is strong. Must have been their evil twins, or triplet in Charming's case.

 

So, let me get this straight...

 

• The show has built up Snow and Charming's big, bad secret for multiple episodes, but when they finally decide to tell Emma their secret, we jump straight to the aftermath. The entire conversation where the actual character drama would have occured - the difficult reveal where Snow and Charming had to come clean and tell their daughter the truth - all happened in Offscreenville.

Yep. Such a bad decision. And then Snow-- sorry, that's not Snow, it's her evil twin Rain, Rain's only defense is "I am your mother?" Ugh.

Edited March 30, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[Dani-Ellie]

We don't know how much Rogue Author manipulated before the Apprentice trapped him in the book. It may have only been that one incident (go big or go home?). We also don't know how long he had the job before he began manipulating the book. With all the talk of free will, it's not like the show is avoiding the possibility of it. In fact, it is stating that it exists and the Author position is a recording position. My point is: there is nothing to indicate right now that everything every villain on this show has ever done is because of Rogue Author. Since Regina cast the Dark Curse after the Author got booked (heh), that is most definitely still on her.

 

Snow and Charming's mistake is still quite obviously a very big mistake, but I thought it was quite clear even before Snow's freakout when the egg started hatching that they thought there was a baby dragon in that egg, not a baby person. Their intent was to return the egg to Maleficent and they felt guilt for what they'd done. Again, it's not at all right, but it's not the evilest evil that ever eviled, either.

 

I was intrigued by Rumple's pause after he kissed Belle's hand (though, seriously, Rumple, ick and boundaries). If this was in fact a widespread sleeping curse, does the fact that she didn't wake when he kissed her mean they're no longer True Loves?

 

I totally know Emma was going to be more upset by the lie than the actual secret. (And I thought it was a neat bit of paralleling with Snow's vision of the "I'm your mother." "I don't care." exchange. In the vision, the tearing out of the heart was literal. When it actually came to pass, it was figurative.) Hook being jealous of August and all the Captain Swan beats made me aww like nobody's business.

[Actionmage]

I know that others will have better lists on how this episode just shat upon three seasons of already shoddy continuity. TIIC don't get to point to the twee "Peddler"/"Author" and giggle at their cleverness. August doesn't out-of-the-blue go and fill-in the whole backstory of the Author as a job/title, not just one person. Why?  It's shoddy. It's not even funny craptastic, it's insulting.

 

Snow and David by this point know how to handle a deal with a magician. She would not just "yeah, yeah, whatever-- my soul, David's soul, whatever! Protect baybeeeeee!"  Neither would actually place another child , regardless of it's mother, into  being a receptacle of  evil/"evil"/Evil.  I can believe many many misguided or just plain wrong decisions that Snowing would make and then later regret to their souls. I just can't believe that Snowing would do what the show said.  Also, neither would lightly make a deal over darkening another child's soul especially if they had no idea what was going to happen after the darkening of said child. Then again, I think I'm done.

 

Hook was wonderful as Emma's support. Henry was good in the Sorcerer's Mansion. Regina tried as long as she could to keep Gold and the ladies from the page/Author.

 

I guess the show had to pile on Snowing and had to have Snow be the one to step on the baby rattle. Shut up, show.

 

Kristen was lovely with her hair down and loose.

 

Way to get the important stuff in, like the red mascara and the "Walt" namedrop. We know what's important on this show.

 

they thought there was a baby dragon in that egg, not a baby person.

 

I still think that's not even a factor, despite how it was played on-screen. Snow, who talks to all the woodland creatures, wouldn't take  turning another creature or human's child into an evil being, imo.  Everyone's mileage will vary, I'm sure.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Actionmage

[AmeliaBedelia]

I have mixed feelings about this one. I was definitely engaged while watching, but part of that was due to some serious head scratching moments.

 

The first ten minutes were probably my favorite part, and that had to do with Hook/Emma adorableness. They sure hugged for a long time while Snow/Charming demonstrated the worst whispering technique ever. I also loved Hook's "wooden man-child" comment.

 

Things I contemplated while watching:

Why does Snow insist on saying "we" to Charming when she's the one who saw the dark vision of Emma, and she's the one who suggested taking Maleficent's egg. Charming needs to grow a backbone and tell her no every once in awhile (although apparently the author was manipulating things so no one is responsible for their actions I guess).

 

Snow's repeated "What about Regina's happy ending?" had my eye twitching.

 

So, there is free will. Good to know.

 

Gold talking over Belle's sleeping form (again) was creepy. I'm not even sure when Maleficent lifted the curse. Everyone was suddenly awake (unless I missed something while I was stuffing hot scone in my mouth in the kitchen).

 

The writers suck for skipping the emotional meat of Snow/Charming revealing their evil deed to Emma. I was waiting for that all episode, and definitely felt cheated.

 

The peddler dude is a serviceable actor. Emma was dumb for letting him out.

 

Not really looking forward to the next episode as Robin Hood does nothing for me.

 

 

 

[Rhetorica]

Another good episode! Poor Maleficent! She's always been my favorite villain, now she's tragic. Snow was out of control then. Perhaps pregnancy hormones. I liked the mention of Walt Disney's name as one of the story tellers. That was a nice tribute. So Rumple has heart problems? I guess all the darkness in there caught up with him. And, of course, Lily is Emma's one true friend. Why are they bringing back the Wicked Witch? She was horrid!

[YaddaYadda]

Emma was dumb for letting him out.

 

If Emma had not been distraught, she would have waited before releasing him.  But she is now questioning everything about herself.  I'm not sure what kind of answers the Author can give her though since he did not write about her and since he was locked up before the Dark Curse was cast and way before Emma was born if we judge by the mobile scene (Snow must've been like what?  Six months pregnant and she was barely showing when they stole Maleficent's egg), then someone else had already taken over the Peddler.  The story continues after what went down with Mal.  Regina casts the curse, David puts baby Emma in the wardrobe where she comes to the LwM.

 

Which means there's another Author.  They have the wrong one.

Edited March 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[ABitOFluff]

This episode was mostly a confusing mess, but I didn't totally hate it.. At least we got some questions answered. So, maybe I'm wrong but I thought that the Author/Peddler didn't so much manipulate the stories as meddle in them. Call me crazy, but it's made me a little more interested in this plot now that's we're no longer looking for the Author.

 

I really felt for Mal, and I might be the only one, but I'm looking forward to them finding Lily. I also hope we get to see Ursula and Cruella's first days in our world.

 

And, yuck, Rumple. What is it with him and his constantly unconscious wife? But his little speech did give me hope that he might actually die.

 

And, seriously, can we get the real Snowing back? I miss them.

[Lieutenant]

Free will exists--according to mysterious hermit guy--and Snow and David decided to take away Emma’s and eggbaby’s?  Yuck.  And if free will exists, how come Regina needs the author?  Hers didn’t kick in, or something?

 

Which blended seamlessly with the Apprentice then marching up to Peddler later in the flashback demanding "why did you make me cast that spell?!"  What the actual heck, writers?! *face palm*

 

This episode was a mess.  I found myself zoning out for a lot of it.  Why exactly was August sick?  And David and Snow's endless monologues on morality totally turned into white noise...not that I was interested in their convoluted mental gymnastics to make themselves feel better about what they did.  I often find myself wanting David to take charge, tell Snow she's being an emotional head case, and decided to do the exact opposite of whatever her first impulse is. But no, we always have to go along with whatever she's sure is going to happen.  Then he gets to listen to the "shame on us" lecture from her later on.  Reminded me a lot of the "we failed her, David" talk after Emma's magic fritzed out.  

 

Captain Swan was lovely.  Both Emma reassuring Hook (who is so sweetly worried about the darkness creeping up on her unawares), to his finding her later on the docks.  They are developing so beautifully.  Thank God for their moments in episodes like this...

Edited March 30, 2015 by Lieutenant

[Worsel]

 

Which means there's another Author.  They have the wrong one.

There are a whole bunch of authors.  They are sitting in the OUAT writer's room creating more contradictory and confusing plots and stories to keep us watching and criticizing, and ultimately trying to keep from banging our heads against the wall when we cannot reconcile one plot line with another.

 

(ETA: And yet, I still do enjoy this show and will try to remember the mantra, "It's just a TV show."

Edited March 30, 2015 by Worsel

[OnceUponAJen]

I can't believe Emma still let the Author out even knowing he had gone rogue. She didn't even really pause to think about it. Loved the Captain Swan. Killian being Emma's shoulder to lean on....she really needs that and I love those two! Kind of cute they directly addressed the August - Emma Hook triangle speculation.

The Big Secret is finally out...glad that's over! I wonder when Maleficent will find out that Emma knows Lily. I can't believe Snow and Charming didn't know that was an actual baby...or at least had the potential to be one. Lily didn't seem to me to be the epitome of darkness. She seemed like a regular teenager with teenage issues.

[TigerLynx]

So far all the quest for a happy ending via the author of the book has resulted in more villains showing up to cause problems.

 

When does Emma get to do more than be lied to by everyone?

Edited March 30, 2015 by TigerLynx

[YaddaYadda]

Lily didn't seem to me to be the epitome of darkness. She seemed like a regular teenager with teenage issues.

 

She's in a LwM.  The reason she was sent there was so that she couldn't do any damage.  We don't know what she will be like if she goes to the Enchanted Forest.

[Mathius]

Which blended seamlessly with the Apprentice then marching up to Peddler later in the flashback demanding "why did you make me cast that spell?!"  What the actual heck, writers?! *face palm*

Actually, I think the Apprentice was unaware that his free will had been compromised when he said that line to Snowing. He only realized after the whole ordeal was done.

I actually like the whole Author reveal that there are many whose job it is to record the greatest stories into immortal status, and just ONE interfered by using the pen of fate to actually force certain events he's recording to happen to his liking. Hopefully, we'll soon get the reveal that he had no interest in Regina whatsoever and didn't alter her life at all as it unfolded. Already we know that killing her father and onward were definitely all on her, since the Peddler was imprisoned during that time.

[foreverevolving]

I'm not sure why everyone is unhappy regarding the author revelation and how there is no free will, when August quite obviously pointed out and the apprentice did too, that the author job is to record events, they are not allowed to intervene or change them as they record them. It was obvious that this author did (I wonder if this was a jab at Fanfiction authors? anyone know the ep's stand regarding fanfiction?) and so he was punished.

Which means that at the end of the day it is not the author who decides the character happy ending but the character itself. which I think is the moral story this arc is about: at the end of the day, no matter what outside forces are taking affect and wracking havoc on our life, the power is in us to take control and craft and build our life. we can either sit idle and allow the paddler to dictate our life, or we can trust our gut and make our own choice and by so live with the consequences.

They showed it with Snow tonight. she had a choice: give the egg back or take it. she took it, and therefore now has to live with the consequences of her actions.

It's quite clever and remind us that these characters are not as black and white as the cartoon movies portray them and thus as we like them to be. on OUAT they are real flash and blood human beings who make mistakes.

at the end of the day: no one is of pure heart, but you can either choose to give in to the darkness- as rumple does, or you can fight it- as MM and David did.

 

But that's just my take on it all. while the writing and execution isn't always perfect it's still an interesting storyline. Now they just need to find the author/s that came after the one that got locked.

 

Also Captain Swan continues to be the strongest part of the entire show this season.

and I haven't realized how much i missed august until this past two episodes. and how much I liked him and Emma.. i am totaly on board a Hook/Emma/August threesome, sadly this is ABC at 8pm so i may have to resort to fanfiction... they need a ship name... "Captain Swan Wood?" mmm could use a bit of work, but not too bad for first try. Also I am totally blaming Arrow's "Smoaking Billionaires" threesome ship for making me see threesomes with every ship i like (except Doug and Carol on ER, cause that couple is scared and can never be changed!) 

 

 

I do wonder how Walt Disney fits into this, by mentioning his name (besides the obvious nod) they pretty much allude to him being originally from FT land and have, through portal, came to our world.

Edited March 30, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Mari]

Hopefully, we'll soon get the reveal that he had no interest in Regina whatsoever and didn't alter her life at all as it unfolded. Already we know that killing her father and onward were definitely all on her, since the Peddler was imprisoned during that time.

But do we trust that, because TS, TW?

 

They adore Regina.  Are they going to be able to resist blaming the Author?  Because I'm not convinced they understand their own timeline well enough to realize they put the meddlesome Author in the book before several very evil Regina deeds.

[ParadoxLost]

Snow and Charming discussing their secret in whispers right next to Hook, Emma, and Henry rivals Snow not noticing that Emma nearly froze to death for writing, directing, and editorial stupidity.  Are we supposed to believe, again that no one involved in production noticed this?

 

Henry left Emma under a sleeping spell and vulnerable to the villains to protect the book?  I really am not liking this kid.

 

Not surprised, but not getting to see how exactly Snowing explained what they did to Emma was a let down.  When writers do that, I always take it as an acknowledgement that they know they aren't good enough to write the scene or that they know the characterization is weak and the plot contrived.

 

Snow's heart isn't black because of Cora's death.  This is the definition of getting what you want in the worse possible way.  I expect interviews tomorrow where they pretend this was planned all along and say neener neener neener while thumbing their nose at viewers.

 

This all explains why Snow can forgive Regina.  Her world view is now based on her own actions and guilt because that is exactly the point of Snow and Charming's discussion over the mobile.  Neener neener neener.

 

There at the end, when the Author said he made Snowing kidnap the baby and Sorcerer send it to another realm because it was more interesting that way, that's when I decided A&E were doing a cameo ala Hitchcock and were locked in the damn book for violating their duty.

[KingOfHearts]

Wasn't there dialog hinting he could still write inside the book? He was able to write new illustrations. Did the apprentice take the pen away?

Edited March 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

If it doesn't turn out the author somehow overrode Snowing's free will I will be SO PISSED. And I have a feeling I will also be pissed because then all of Gold and Regina's worst decisions-nope, they didn't really do that. Author. Fuck that.

 

Fuck that, indeed. I absolutely expect them to say that the Author wrote all of Regina's bad deeds up until he was booked. After all, what point is there to him going rogue except that he wrote things that weren't supposed to happen?

 

I hate this Author plot So. Freaking. Much.

 

So, let me get this straight...

 

• The show has built up Snow and Charming's big, bad secret for multiple episodes, but when they finally decide to tell Emma their secret, we jump straight to the aftermath. The entire conversation where the actual character drama would have occured - the difficult reveal where Snow and Charming had to come clean and tell their daughter the truth - all happened in Offscreenville.
• Oh, and apparently no one has free will because this author figure has gone rogue and is forcing people to do things they don't want to do.

 

Am I clear on those points? I just want to make sure I wasn't going crazy and the show is actually this terrible.

 

Yes, it is actually that terrible. Everybody was acting like an idiot. People were whispering deep, dark secrets three feet from other people. 

 

I lost a lot of brain cells watching that ep.

[YaddaYadda]

The only thing the Peddler might have controlled regarding Regina was whether or not she went to meet Robin in the tavern and that guy was such a manipulative twerp that the only reason that page appeared to her was so that she would press on this quest for the author and release him.

 

If there's a whole bunch of authors, then we don't know how many helped write Henry's book.  There's two for sure, but was there one before the Peddler as well?  As far as we know right now, the only free will that was messed with was Snowing's and the Apprentice's.  I find it laughable though that someone who can open portals just like that isn't powerful enough to retain their free will.

 

Oh well!

[Mathius]

Wasn't there dialog hinting he could still write inside the book? He was able to write new illustrations. Did the apprentice take the pen away?

Yes, the pen was on the ground after the Peddler was sucked in. I actually suspect the illustration came from the Sorcerer and not the Author.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Mathius

[Actionmage]

Did the apprentice take the pen away?

 

Yes; when the Sorcerer banished the Author, the quill fell onto the book the Author was writing in.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Actionmage

[ParadoxLost]

Wasn't there dialog hinting he could still write inside the book? He was able to write new illustrations. Did the apprentice take the pen away?

 

I don't think so (on Author writing in the book). There at the end he made a comment about not being able to move enough to drink whatever it was Snowing gave him.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Mari]

Do you suppose you had to meet the meddlesome peddler/Author before he could mess with your free will, or could he do it from a distance? 

[Shanna Marie]

And Snow still has bad hair in the EF.

I actually kind of liked the updo, maybe not so much the style itself but the fact that she had it pulled back instead of the usual rat's nest while tromping around in the woods. I have long, curly hair, and there's no way I'd do any kind of adventuring with my hair loose, the way they usually show her.

 

With all the talk of free will, it's not like the show is avoiding the possibility of it. In fact, it is stating that it exists and the Author position is a recording position. My point is: there is nothing to indicate right now that everything every villain on this show has ever done is because of Rogue Author. Since Regina cast the Dark Curse after the Author got booked (heh), that is most definitely still on her.

But then there was all the "if we destroy the page where the Author is trapped, Regina can't have a happy ending" nonsense. They keep contradicting themselves. It's like a team of writers is working on this plot, but they only know the vague, general outline, then go write their own versions, and then they make the episodes out of random pages from each writer, thrown together without any editing or without anyone reading the final script. So there's free will, but Regina can't get a happy ending without the Author (and how do they know this? She had ONE THING not go her way after she stopped murdering people), and Emma's like any other person who could be either good or evil, but Snow can't deal with that so the only logical thing to do is a massive, dangerous spell. And August knows all this stuff, but it's the first we've heard of it.

 

The whole thing reeks of retcon. There's no way that Season One Snow and David did this. Would Maleficent have tried to talk Regina out of casting the curse against Snow if Snow had done this to her? Oh, and wasn't the Sleeping Curse something difficult, not just wave your wand around? Or was it not the real Sleeping Curse? But if it was the real Sleeping Curse, then why were the people who had been under it immune?

 

If I didn't actually care about a few of the characters and if I weren't kind of curious, in a watch the trainwreck way, of how they were going to write the rest of this mess, I think this would have been my quitting point.

[KingOfHearts]

If the Author hasn't had power since he got trapped, doesn't that make Operation Mongoose pointless? Doesn't that mean Regina could have just given herself a happy ending this whole time? If Regina became evil because of an Author, what made her stay a villain despite her "attempts" to make her life better?

Who cares what happened in the past? I thought this whole Author plot was about manipulating fate in the present day. It just makes no darn sense.

Edited March 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Arnella]

I don't understand why people think Cruella and Ursula should have raised Lilith.  They don't seem to care about Maleficent that much and show no maternal or even kindly feelings at all.  They had to find a way to survive without magic and didn't even want to help each other let alone change diapers of a squalling infant. 

[Writing Wrongs]

The last two episodes are the first time I haven't watched the show live. That shows how much I care about the current storylines.

 

So Snow knew what teenage Emma looked like all along?

 

This whole Emma could go dark reminds too much of Wyatt's storyline on Charmed.

[Dani-Ellie]

But then there was all the "if we destroy the page where the Author is trapped, Regina can't have a happy ending" nonsense. They keep contradicting themselves.

 

It was mentioned a couple of times that the Author is a way for Regina to get her happy ending, not the only way. I know Charming brought it up but I want to say someone else did, too. What Snow thinks is not gospel, especially if there are other characters challenging her views.

[foreverevolving]

The whole thing reeks of retcon. 

 

Perhaps this is a side affect of Emma and Hook traveling back in time?

The famous ripple affect (or is it grandfather affect?), change one thing and you risk changing everything, even erasing yourself.

 

It was mentioned a couple of times that the Author is a way for Regina to get her happy ending, not the only way. I know Charming brought it up but I want to say someone else did, too. What Snow thinks is not gospel, especially if there are other characters challenging her views.

 

 

Precisely! the author is simply a way, not the only way. and just because a character says something doesn't make it so, we have been shown this entire arc that the characters are pretty much in the dark in regards this all works, they assume the author matters because all they know about is that their life stories are in the book so they made the assumption that the author is the one who dictates the story, except August pretty much debunked that tonight by telling the charmings that the author is not allowed to intervene, therefore whichever way their ending goes is up to them.

Edited March 30, 2015 by foreverevolving

[YaddaYadda]

Something to chew on or get mad at

 

Though it seems unlikely that the daughters of heroes and villains would happen to meet in the real world, executive producer Edward Kitsis promises there’s a good explanation that will be explored further in coming episodes. “Episode 16 does show their connection, which is [Lily’s] carrying around Emma’s darkness and Emma is carrying around her lightness,” he says. “Even in that moment when the parents take her away, they’ve connected them forever.”

 

This whole Emma could go dark reminds too much of Wyatt's storyline on Charmed.

 

No kidding.  Or it's more like 2 years from now, Emma will have a kid who will be exactly like Wyatt.

[Mathius]

I do wonder how Walt Disney fits into this, by mentioning his name (besides the obvious nod) they pretty much allude to him being originally from FT land and have, through portal, came to our world.

No, I'm pretty sure the Author job spans all realms, including TLWM where Walt is from (and Shakespeare, who was alluded to directly before Walt was named). The job is essentially to discover great stories and record them down in some mystical parchment that affects all realms and ensures that the stories spread. This is how fairy tales came to TLWM even though they were real events in other realms.

[KR Vermont]

There are a whole bunch of authors.  They are sitting in the OUAT writer's room creating more contradictory and confusing plots and stories to keep us watching and criticizing, and ultimately trying to keep from banging our heads against the wall when we cannot reconcile one plot line with another.

 

(ETA: And yet, I still do enjoy this show and will try to remember the mantra, "It's just a TV show."

I honestly can't keep track of all the tangents this show goes off on--many seem nonsensical and unresolved, and the cycling in and out of characters new and old and from different times and realms.

This show that I once adored (once upon a time, long ago, heh) is bringing about too much confusion and wtf-itude to be enjoyable entertainment.