S05.E15: Try

[Pete Martell]

I thought they may have been surprised if he was usually very mild-mannered. 

[kj4ever]

Even if I didn't know he was lying, it was really obvious he was lying. Whatever question Deanna asked before Spencer interrupted, you could tell Nicholas hadn't rehearsed that part and was trying to come up with an answer.

It seemed that way to me too.  I'm just hoping her judgement isn't off because of just losing her son.  She deserves to know the truth about what happened to him, even if it was because he was not listening.

[JackONeill]

*KicksThreadHard*  Alright, alright, let's move on from the Jessie back and forth.

 

It's becoming eerily similar to the Beth back and forth and I swear, if Jessie shows up with a guitar and starts singing, I don't have enough vodka in the house to cope with that.

 

We are all going to intrepret how Jessie is being presented on screen, alone and with respect to Rick, differently (through our own lens) but let's not rehash and argue back and forth over it. Everyone's been pretty decent: I just don't want this to devolve into a "shouting" match. Please and thanks.

Man --- THANK YOU!!!!!!

[Nashville]

It's becoming eerily similar to the Beth back and forth and I swear, if Jessie shows up with a guitar and starts singing, I don't have enough vodka in the house to cope with that.

 

Wins the Internet for today.

[JackONeill]

I thought they may have been surprised if he was usually very mild-mannered. 

 

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to change the subject.

[Pete Martell]

Sorry - it was near the bottom of 13 so I hadn't seen it.

[paigow]

LOL!!! Z Nation is like the Cleopatra 2525 / Jack of All Trades of the zombie genre!!! Hahaha oh man that show is pretty bad but I am actually looking forward to it's return this summer. Even Cleopatra 2525 had it's compelling moments, Z Nation might get there too! What a hoot!

After Rick burns down ASZ, the next community they find will be populated exclusively by Cleopatra & Sarge clones pimped out by Bruce Campbell

[kikismom]

 random scrap materials

At least they could have shown us the sculpture. I don't find it ridiculous; I could totally fall in love with someone who could do this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2633902/One-mans-junk-anothers-art-Stunning-sculptures-buffalo-horses-cowboy-riding-Triceratops-created-scrap-metal.html

[JackONeill]

Wasn't Kevin Costner having some Native American artist come up with gigantic sculptures (or some such) of bison out in one of the Dakotas? The artist got started, then Costner ran out of money (or something).

 

Oh, well.

 

That's my sculpture story (and I'm sticking to it).

 

(Maybe Costner could show up on TWD in a bit part: The Postman!!!!!  Hey, we have to get the mail, right?)

Edited March 24, 2015 by JackONeill

[RedheadZombie]

I am tired of the Lady Macbeth egging on a conflicted Macbeth scenes - before, it was Lori whispering in Rick's ear that Shane is dangerous and then Rick ends up killing Shane.  Now it's Carol telling Rick that Pete has to die and/or Jessie emotionally manipulating Rick, and then Rick gets into a big fight with Pete.  If Jessie survives to next season, then we'll probably see Jessie prodding Rick about killing someone else at some point.

 

I'm still not convinced that Jessie isn't the abuser who's terrified her kids into lying about which parent is the abusive one, and that's why Sam went to Carol for comfort.

 

This skates dangerously close to a woman always being to blame for a man's actions - kind of biblical.  Speaking specifically of this case:  Rick is the cop.  Did he bother to ask Carol why she felt Pete was abusive?  If he didn't, that's Rick's fault not Carol's, and certainly not Jessie's.  If Rick knows it's a gut feeling and trusts Carol's instinct, well again that's on Rick.  When did Rick become the helpless boob that women boss around?  Rick's my favorite character, but he's accountable for his own actions.

 

I have a hard time believing that the entire community is willing to protect Pete because he's a surgeon. Surely there must be or has been ONE person who will speak up Jessie unless they did speak up and were exiled.

 

As other people have pointed out, everyone knew about Ed and did nothing.  The women attempted to protect Carol when Ed got rough in public, and Shane happened along at a fortunate moment.  We're holding the ASZhats to a higher standard than CDB.

 

ETA:  I was cross-posting and missed the warning.  I haven't been involved in the back and forth, this is my first post on the subject.

Edited March 24, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[Pete Martell]

It's a good reminder of how much the main group (if one can call it a group now) has changed. CDB was mostly led by men like Merle who were happy to turn a blind eye, and women who did the same because they needed the protection of the men or didn't want to rock the boat. Now the group is full of women who don't particularly need a man's protection, and men who are not as willing to tolerate abuse. Yet, I do wonder how they'd react to a situation like that if the person in question was vital to their group. 

[JackONeill]

Rick would walk right up to them and get right into their face. He'd get that Southern-cop voice going real low. "We don't do things like this." Then he'd point his finger down, as if controlling his temper. "Do you understand me?" Dramatic pause. "Do you?"

[Ocean Chick]

The problem is that the writers are telling, not showing, the abuse angle.  We know Carol picked up on it with Sam, but it would have been nice showing her having a talk with Sam about his behavior and finding out that way about the abuse.  Or a quick blink-and-you-miss-it glimpse of a bruise otherwise hidden by clothing.

 

Of course, we all accepted Michonne having a "feeling" that something was off about Woodbury, so why not go with Carol having good instincts as well?

[RedheadZombie]

Aaron and Daryl in this latest episode have started to maybe put some things together although they weren't offering up any ideas about what they were seeing.  Other than that it's close, whatever it is, with Daryl's comment about how it just happened.  Which by the way I like the way Daryl and Aaron seem to have developed a great working rapport out there in the woods.  And I think it's good that Daryl's not back in ASZ having to deal with what's happening in Rick's world right now.

 

I agree.  Daryl almost blindly supports Rick and he would have made the situation worse, not better.  It would have freaked him out when Michonne knocked out Rick.  Who knows how he would have responded.

 

Regardless, Carol still killed a child that was not a zombie. My point is that Carol is ruthless.

 

Ruthless is leaving behind a mentally ill child to take care of herself in a ZA.  Ruthless is leaving a murderous psychopath with the face of a sweet child - to be taken in by the next group of humans to come upon her.  What Carol did was the only humane and safe thing to do.  Tyreese agreed with her.

[Sofie Fatale]

Men like Pete like control. They get way worse when they are not feeling like they are in control. I'm sure he has the older kid scared to death. Pete is like a freakin' linebacker.

That's one reason I figured he wasn't around. He is probably thinking, "out of sight, out of mind".

[Ava]

Like a lot of other people posting, I was annoyed by the red balloon.  Where the hell did the helium come from?  Another thing that took me completely out of the episode is when it is revealed that it was Nicholas who stole Rick's gun from the blender.  What? How?  He was on gate duty when CDB came in; he was the one who told them they had to lay down their weapons.  He would have had no idea that Rick had hidden a gun, never mind where he'd hidden it.  Drives me nuts, these little inconsistencies.

[Hava]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about abuse here. Victims are sometimes outwardly happy acting people because they don't want people to know what they're hiding (just one reason, there are many more). I've found out about abuse years down the road and was shocked because the victim seemed "just like me."

Also, we've seen Jessie's arms and her face. That doesn't mean there are no bruises on her elsewhere. It also doesn't mean that there have never been bruises on her arms and face. It just means right now she could be in a cycle of abuse where there are none. We've only "known" her for a short period of time, right?

I was one of the people who inquired about visible marks on Jessie, but you are so right. I feel stupid for not even considering that she may be in a lull period of the cycle of abuse. Thank you for brining that up.

[ghoulina]

I have a hard time believing Carol is so invested in Sam's safety when she threatened to tie up to a tree and leave for Walkers. I don't doubt for a minute she meant what she said to him. She killed Lizzie.

 

Carol threatened Sam like that to save her hide, not because she actually WANTED to hurt him. She just wanted to scare him badly enough to drop the gun issue. I think Sam likes her because not only does her sense the soft, mothering instinct inside of her, but maybe he also wishes his mom were a tough ass like Carol, a woman who would handle business and not let that Porch Dick keep treating her like shit. 

 

As for Lizzie, there was no malice in Carol killing her. It broke her heart, but she did it because she knew Lizzie couldn't handle this world. Lizzie had just killed another child, her very own sister, and wanted to kill Judith as well. Carol knew she would never get better and it wasn't safe having her around. But she loved Lizzie. I don't think you can compare the threat she made to Sam to her having to put down Lizzie.

[I-Kare]

I was one of the people who inquired about visible marks on Jessie, but you are so right. I feel stupid for not even considering that she may be in a lull period of the cycle of abuse. Thank you for brining that up.

 

Don't feel stupid! No one's stupid here. We're all great fans just having some great discussions! 

[ghoulina]

It's a good reminder of how much the main group (if one can call it a group now) has changed. CDB was mostly led by men like Merle who were happy to turn a blind eye, and women who did the same because they needed the protection of the men or didn't want to rock the boat. Now the group is full of women who don't particularly need a man's protection, and men who are not as willing to tolerate abuse. Yet, I do wonder how they'd react to a situation like that if the person in question was vital to their group.

 

While I don't think it's ever excusable to turn a blind eye to abuse, I do think the situations are a bit different. The original CDB was living in a camp, in the woods. They were living rough, and it really hadn't been THAT long. And, for all we know, Ed never hit Carol during that time until the time Shane got him. Maybe they could tell he was an asshole, but living in tight quarters like that had prevented him showing his true self. Or maybe he had. Maybe they knew. But their situation was so much more desperate. Again, not saying it's okay - just different. 

 

In ASZ they have walls and food and a shitload of weaponry. Yes, Pete's a doctor, but they have a whole civilization going there. They couldn't figure something out? They weren't out in the world, fighting walkers daily for their lives. They had the luxury of being able to address this problem, and they never really did. 

[catrox14]

FTR, I think I need to clarify my position on Carol re Sam and Lizzie. I was in agreement with Carol's solution to kill Lizzie, as I mentioned in a prior post, I didn't have a problem with it. I also don't have a problem with Carol scaring the crap out of Sam and possibly following through with doing what she said she would if Sam is not who he seems to be for the sake of CDB. I still think it takes a bit of ruthlessness to kill a child even if it upsets you or you feel bad about it.  But maybe ruthless is too strong a word. It takes a certain, I dunno...hardness maybe is a better word to do that. Anyway, agree to disagree on that point. 

[kikismom]

  Another thing that took me completely out of the episode is when it is revealed that it was Nicholas who stole Rick's gun from the blender.  What? How?  He was on gate duty when CDB came in; he was the one who told them they had to lay down their weapons.  He would have had no idea that Rick had hidden a gun, never mind where he'd hidden it.  Drives me nuts, these little inconsistencies.

I would say that it was not revealed that Nicholas stole it; but that Nicholas knew where the gun was hidden.

There could be more than one person in on this; i.e. somebody on the outside watching (while Nicholas was at the gate) who then shared the info.

Or, a different scenario that if another person stole it, and was not friends sharing info with Nicholas, that they were the one who hid it there, and Nicholas saw that.

 

Or Nicholas did it and the show screwed up again.

Edited March 24, 2015 by kikismom

[RedheadZombie]

If it comes out that Morgan is responsible for that, I will officially walk away from this show and not look back. I don't think even post Duane turned scrawling, sarcastic booby-trap laying, Rick-stabbing Morgan would do that. Interesting that you compared Sasha to Morgan. Spot on, I'd say. If Sasha were on her own right now, I bet she would be holed up in an improvised fortress scrawling "Tyreese didn't turn" all over the walls.

 

The show would be treading dangerous territory by doing this.  Morgan is a fan favorite after two episodes, and about a minute in a third.  The actor is incredibly charismatic and has built good will since season one.  To make Morgan a villain, would be risking the fans rooting for the villain, rather than CDB.  That would be the true jumping of the shark.

 

I'm mostly okay with Michonne knocking Rick out.  The man was laying down some serious truth but the source was damaged, his integrity as battered as his face.  Rick needed a time-out and Michonne provided it before things got completely out of hand.  I hope he gets a moment to pull his shit together and take a breath before the next disaster smacks him in the face.  Go hug Judith, Rick.  Or maybe give Carl the 'birds and bees' talk. 

 

I'm completely fine with Michonne knocking out Rick.  First of all, it's part of her job as constable, so it at least appears (to the community) that she can be impartial.  I think that Michonne saw that Rick was dangerous, and if she knocked him out to prevent him from ruining it for the rest of him, I'm fine with that too.

 

Sasha's breakdown fascinates me because she's doing something I've advocated: she's culling Walkers before they reach the Alexandria perimeter.  They can't mass against the walls if Sasha keeps the numbers down.  I think she's doing great work, but not taking appropriate care.  I want her to realize she is loved and valuable and needs to keep herself safe.  I loved that Rosita and Michonne went looking for her, and worked through demons of their own while out there with Sasha.

 

I'm fine with Sasha culling the herd, but I'm not fine with the wasting of bullets.  Ammunition is finite.  Once it's gone, there will be no more.  We've known since season three that humans are far more dangerous than the walkers.  You can kill walkers with knives, but you need a gun against humans with guns.  Even if you've killed every walker in the entire country, you will still have predatory humans to deal with.  I think it's shortsighted, and I wish someone would stop her.

 

Could Rick be playing the long con, a plot that he and Carol have cooked up between them?  His unusual behavior in this episode, the selective editing around his conversations with Carol, his carefully deliberate hostility to Pete ("keep walking"), his insistent pursuit of Jessie and declaration that he's only going out on a limb for her alone, could all be interpreted as a carefully staged setup to the climax - a hammily histrionic performance that seems calculated to provoke the community's backlash.  Maybe he and Carol want him to be dramatically exiled, so he can get outside the walls and, as a notorious outcast from Alexandria, have the street cred to ingratiate himself with the Wolves, or whoever's lurking, and find out their plans.

 

It would be nice, but I think the writers tend to be much more straightforward than that.  Every time we think they're getting clever - the tea that the governor makes everybody drink is drugged - we find out that we're more clever than the writers.  I think Rick is just demonstrating PTSD, and he's on the brink of losing all control.  When he stroked his gun while watching Pete with Jessie, there was no one to see this behavior.  There's a reason that combat veterans are diagnosed with PTSD once they come home.  It's glaringly obvious once the combat is gone.  Rick would probably hide this behavior better if he was going on runs and killing walkers on a daily basis.  Since he's not, all of his panic/aggression/paranoia is glaringly obvious on the streets of Mayberry.

[ghoulina]

I would say that it was not revealed that Nicholas stole it; but that Nicholas knew where the gun was hidden.

There could be more than one person in on this; i.e. somebody on the outside watching (while Nicholas was at the gate) who then shared the info.
Or, a different scenario that if another person stole it, and was not friends sharing info with Nicholas, that they were the one who hid it there, and Nicholas saw that.

Or Nicholas did it and the show screwed up again.

 

Yea, if it's not a continuity error (which is quite possible), the whole situation tends to make me think Nicholas is working with someone on the outside. Not only the matter of HOW he got the gun, but why it's still out there. Why wouldn't he turn it into Deanna and ASZ?

[RedheadZombie]

Yea, if it's not a continuity error (which is quite possible), the whole situation tends to make me think Nicholas is working with someone on the outside. Not only the matter of HOW he got the gun, but why it's still out there. Why wouldn't he turn it into Deanna and ASZ?

 

If Nicholas is working with someone on the outside, it would make one wonder if he has been deliberately sabotaging the runs he goes on.

[Watcher0363]

*KicksThreadHard*  Alright, alright, let's move on from the Jessie back and forth.

 

It's becoming eerily similar to the Beth back and forth and I swear, if Jessie shows up with a guitar and starts singing, I don't have enough vodka in the house to cope with that.

 

We are all going to intrepret how Jessie is being presented on screen, alone and with respect to Rick, differently (through our own lens) but let's not rehash and argue back and forth over it. Everyone's been pretty decent: I just don't want this to devolve into a "shouting" match. Please and thanks.

There seems to be a pretty big elephant in the room that no one is discussing. that being how the TV series is a companion piece to written material that has been out there for a while. Many discussions that have been taking place in the episode threads are truly pointless from, the comic book point of view. The comic book thread is not cutting it as an episode discussion point. Is it possible to have a thread for each episode where people in the know can discuss the show and episode in more realistic terms. No need for spoiler tags, just talking about what happen that episode. We can discuss whether the actors pulled it off well compared to the comics or the general structure of the episode.

 

In those episode threads we can avoid speculation on what the ASZ is, or is not, who and what Jessie is to Rick, whether Rick is OOC . Because 90% of the people watching TWD already know. And as for the characters not in the comics, well there is a party for everyone. Because the writers can use their imagination and go anywhere with them. And we can go along with the ride happily or not. Either way we know where the greater journey is going and will not have to wade through so many post about things which are forgone conclusions.

[Lyndy]

FTR, I think I need to clarify my position on Carol re Sam and Lizzie. I was in agreement with Carol's solution to kill Lizzie, as I mentioned in a prior post, I didn't have a problem with it. I also don't have a problem with Carol scaring the crap out of Sam and possibly following through with doing what she said she would if Sam is not who he seems to be for the sake of CDB. I still think it takes a bit of ruthlessness to kill a child even if it upsets you or you feel bad about it.  But maybe ruthless is too strong a word. It takes a certain, I dunno...hardness maybe is a better word to do that. Anyway, agree to disagree on that point. 

I don't think ruthless is a strong word. She definitely is even if her actions are warranted. Carol is honestly about my favourite character right now. Her actions in this episode and pretty much the whole season are fascinating though. Her insistence that Pete has to die. I mean. He has to be stopped from hurting his wife and kid for sure but maybe murdering him doesn't need to be the first thing they try. She seems to jump to the "just kill him" conclusion so easily lately. Remember Daryl is the only reason Noah wasn't killed in Atlanta. He had to remind her of her own humanity. I'm really interested to see where her story goes. 

[ghoulina]

In those episode threads we can avoid speculation on what the ASZ is, or is not, who and what Jessie is to Rick, whether Rick is OOC . Because 90% of the people watching TWD already know.

 

I really don't think 90% of people watching this show have read the comics. Maybe I am particularly sheltered, but I know quite a few people who TWD and none of them have read the comics. 

 

Also, the showrunners have been known to depart from the comic storyline, quite a bit in some instances. While I haven't read them, and I don't know diddly squat about future events, I do know some stuff from earlier and the story and there have been some MAJOR differences between the show and the comics. So I don't think you can really say that people who have read the comics know what's going to happen on the show and all other conversations are pointless. 

[chlban]

If Nicholas is working with someone on the outside, it would make one wonder if he has been deliberately sabotaging the runs he goes on.

You guys are giving Nicholas a lot more credit than I do. I don't think he's smart enough to be working with anyone on the outside. Plus I can't figure what his reasoning would be. Although we don't know his story, I suppose he could be related to some of the exiles.

 

I think he likely stumbled onto the gun or else he saw someone else (Eden?) retrieve it and then snagged it from wherever she put it because he was at the gate when they arrived so how did he see where Rick put it? 

[stretch]

If Nicholas is working with someone on the outside, it would make one wonder if he has been deliberately sabotaging the runs he goes on.

 

And why he's so eager to continue doing them, even though he sucks at it.

[Ocean Chick]

And, for all we know, Ed never hit Carol during that time until the time Shane got him.

 

 

Except that we know he did - Jaquie mentioned Carol having "new bruises again" when the women were arguing with Ed at the quarry.  They'd all noticed the bruising, but did nothing about it.  Shane was also willing to look the other way, until he had anger issues he needed to work out, and Ed made a mighty fine punching bag.

 

Her insistence that Pete has to die. I mean. He has to be stopped from hurting his wife and kid for sure but maybe murdering him doesn't need to be the first thing they try. She seems to jump to the "just kill him" conclusion so easily lately.

 

 

Again, I think that statement was more in the vein of "Pete won't stop abusing his wife, and there's no way you can stop him, short of death.  He will make you kill him in the end, so be prepared".

[Nutjob]

 

Again, I think that statement was more in the vein of "Pete won't stop abusing his wife, and there's no way you can stop him, short of death.  He will make you kill him in the end, so be prepared".

That's how I took it, as well.

 

Nicholas sabotaging the runs makes sense to me, because I can't figure out why else he would want to keep doing them considering he's a big old coward. When Eugene is more collected than you are in the face of a bunch of walkers, you have courage issues.

[ghoulina]

Except that we know he did - Jaquie mentioned Carol having "new bruises again" when the women were arguing with Ed at the quarry.  They'd all noticed the bruising, but did nothing about it.  Shane was also willing to look the other way, until he had anger issues he needed to work out, and Ed made a mighty fine punching bag.

 

Ahhh, okay. I stand corrected. I had forgotten about that line. And I do agree that Shane attacking Ed had little to do with his treatment of his wife. But I still believe the cushy citizens of ASZ looking the other way for possibly over a year is a bit different from the scared, desperate members of the original CDB. Not excusable, just different. 

[Watcher0363]

I really don't think 90% of people watching this show have read the comics. Maybe I am particularly sheltered, but I know quite a few people who TWD and none of them have read the comics. 

 

Also, the showrunners have been known to depart from the comic storyline, quite a bit in some instances. While I haven't read them, and I don't know diddly squat about future events, I do know some stuff from earlier and the story and there have been some MAJOR differences between the show and the comics. So I don't think you can really say that people who have read the comics know what's going to happen on the show and all other conversations are pointless. 

I should said those watching and posting here. Many names in the episode thread are popping up in areas with plenty of what is considered spoiler information. Or admitting to pre knowledge from various sources.

[RedheadZombie]

There seems to be a pretty big elephant in the room that no one is discussing. that being how the TV series is a companion piece to written material that has been out there for a while. Many discussions that have been taking place in the episode threads are truly pointless from, the comic book point of view. The comic book thread is not cutting it as an episode discussion point. Is it possible to have a thread for each episode where people in the know can discuss the show and episode in more realistic terms. No need for spoiler tags, just talking about what happen that episode. We can discuss whether the actors pulled it off well compared to the comics or the general structure of the episode.

 

In those episode threads we can avoid speculation on what the ASZ is, or is not, who and what Jessie is to Rick, whether Rick is OOC . Because 90% of the people watching TWD already know. And as for the characters not in the comics, well there is a party for everyone. Because the writers can use their imagination and go anywhere with them. And we can go along with the ride happily or not. Either way we know where the greater journey is going and will not have to wade through so many post about things which are forgone conclusions.

 

It can get complicated, but they do it in the Game of Thrones threads.  Each episode has three different threads:  unsullied, book talk, and no book talk.

I should said those watching and posting here. Many names in the episode thread are popping up in areas with plenty of what is considered spoiler information. Or admitting to pre knowledge from various sources.

 

I don't read the comics, but I occasionally look a character up on the comic wiki.  I have noticed people unintentionally (or otherwise) spoiling certain things.  The Termites were being called the Hunters almost immediately, and I think that came from the comics.  This type of thing seems to be treated very seriously in the GoT threads.  I think I've seen warnings for those who've posted outside of the unsullied thread, to not post inside of that thread.  It keeps it pretty pure, but can be difficult if you want to read everyone's posts.

[morgankobi]

I should said those watching and posting here. Many names in the episode thread are popping up in areas with plenty of what is considered spoiler information. Or admitting to pre knowledge from various sources.

I think the number of people who read without posting is actually pretty high, so knowing how many people isn't possible.

[Yolapukka]

I haven't read the comics, I've read some synopses and character information on the walking dead wikia, because I like to see how the tv show differs from it. I've limited what i've read because I don't need the spoilers and canon varies wildly at times between the two formats anyway. Where they coincide, it's not that interesting to me and I'm deeply disinterested in comic discussion intruding into episode threads. Unless comic+ episode is  a separate thread, I don't want it. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by yuggapukka

[catrox14]

I have never read the comics and have no plan to do so yet I have watched every episode of TWD from the minute it aired. I think doing it the way it's done on GoT might work. I also don't particularly think that just "because comics' means that will be how the TV show handles something. This is a debate for any comic adaption : see ARROW.  With TWD they've already deviated from the comics in significant ways as I understand it from reading some sypnoses on the interwebz so I don't think what is canon in comics = canon in TV show.

Edited March 24, 2015 by catrox14

[kj4ever]

Like a lot of other people posting, I was annoyed by the red balloon.  Where the hell did the helium come from?  Another thing that took me completely out of the episode is when it is revealed that it was Nicholas who stole Rick's gun from the blender.  What? How?  He was on gate duty when CDB came in; he was the one who told them they had to lay down their weapons.  He would have had no idea that Rick had hidden a gun, never mind where he'd hidden it.  Drives me nuts, these little inconsistencies.

 

I figured Aiden got it and Nicholas, as his BFF, was in the know.

While I don't think it's ever excusable to turn a blind eye to abuse, I do think the situations are a bit different. The original CDB was living in a camp, in the woods. They were living rough, and it really hadn't been THAT long. And, for all we know, Ed never hit Carol during that time until the time Shane got him. Maybe they could tell he was an asshole, but living in tight quarters like that had prevented him showing his true self. Or maybe he had. Maybe they knew. But their situation was so much more desperate. Again, not saying it's okay - just different. 

 

In ASZ they have walls and food and a shitload of weaponry. Yes, Pete's a doctor, but they have a whole civilization going there. They couldn't figure something out? They weren't out in the world, fighting walkers daily for their lives. They had the luxury of being able to address this problem, and they never really did. 

The women confronted her right before Shane went thermo nuclear on Ed.

 

And why he's so eager to continue doing them, even though he sucks at it.

You know someone like Nicholas is just a weasel.  He probably hadn't ever felt important in his entire life.  Cowards are rarely overachievers, and he is a coward.  He probably liked the fact that he was now "important", and he had Aiden to back up getting out of dodge when the going got dangerous.  I'm sure the people that bring back supplies are the heroes, and it's the only way Nicholas will ever remotely be one of those.

[paigow]

Nicholas sabotaging the runs makes sense to me, because I can't figure out why else he would want to keep doing them considering he's a big old coward.

Valid theory..but risky if Francine goes with him. She would frag his ass tout de suite.

[kj4ever]

Valid theory..but risky if Francine goes with him. She would frag his ass tout de suite.

You know Francine didn't seem to get the memo about we just run and hide when there's trouble.  That scene made me actually believe that they haven't seen much of the walkers, and now that there are more people/noise they are experiencing them in groups for the first time.  I mean shit Sophia was chased by two Walkers and they couldn't save her.  Two!

 

I'm betting Nicholas didn't see much action or sweet ass biscuit Aiden either.  That might have been part of the reason why he was willing to go.

 

These people need to catch up quick.

[Watcher0363]

It can get complicated, but they do it in the Game of Thrones threads.  Each episode has three different threads:  unsullied, book talk, and no book talk.

 

I don't read the comics, but I occasionally look a character up on the comic wiki.  I have noticed people unintentionally (or otherwise) spoiling certain things.  The Termites were being called the Hunters almost immediately, and I think that came from the comics.  This type of thing seems to be treated very seriously in the GoT threads.  I think I've seen warnings for those who've posted outside of the unsullied thread, to not post inside of that thread.  It keeps it pretty pure, but can be difficult if you want to read everyone's posts.

I have not read the comics either. But I read a wiki synopsis with character bio's. With series made from well established material I think what they did in the GoT threads is a good idea. But I also realize that it is more work for the mods.

[SevenStars]

Quoting kikismom again

because Im guilty of exactly that. My excuse is that we are watching a tv show, not reality. In reality, people do all that horrible stuff you mentioned. In reality many of us on this forum have gone through abuse or seen it up close and the range of experiences is immense. That is reality. The Walking Dead is not reality, it is a tv show and even the very best, most brilliant tv shows have to communicate to so many people the show HAS to use "tropes", has to communicate even subtle things broadly (that's a dichotomy). TWD is not the most brilliant tv show ever (my vote is for Breaking Bad), it's often times crude, blunt, stupid. In that regard, the abuse story got even more fucked up when there wasn't any OBVIOUS signs of abuse. I dont hate the Jessie character, hell I dont (yet) hate the Pete character because I'm STILL not convinced things were so fucking horrible for Jessie.

 

I think this storyline has got a lot of us triggered, some are responding like Carol, seeing more than has been actually shown. Others of us are responding to EXACTLY what we've been shown. Man I feel like Im defending abusers or something when I say this but Jessie does not act like any other tv character who is representing an abused human being. For me it is just that simple. Yes the writing is weak but so is the direction, so is the makeup and damnit so is the actor. SHE is making the choice to portray a character who outwardly looks and acts like everything is fine (which does happen IRL), in this milieu, she's making the wrong choice. She could have done things, even constrained by poor wrting to show the AUDIENCE things were severely fucked up between her and Pete. To me she just looked BORED with Pete and so over his drunk ass.

 

 

Also, I think some who have read the comic are more willing to take this Jess/Pete story at face value because they already know the story and where it is going. So they don't need additional scenes/lines in order to believe that Jess DV victim and not someone who is play Rick or have her son playing Carol, or whatever. The comic made up for the blanks in the story on-screen, so they are more willing to give Jessie the benefit of the doubt because of that. 

 

But those of us who have not read the comic, therefore, don't know the story, can't take the story at face value because there are things that are questionable, because of the way the writers are presenting the story on-screen. So we have to question Jess/Pete story. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by SevenStars

[maystone]

I figured Aiden got it and Nicholas, as his BFF, was in the know.

 

 

I think that if Aiden had seen Rick stashing a gun before coming into ASZ, he would have blabbed it to someone and/or made a big show of how he caught the new guys trying to stash private weapons. I'm still not convinced that it's Rick's gun, but then I didn't get a good look at it when Nick dug it up. But if it were Rick's gun, why take it from the blender, transfer it to yet another container and then bury it somewhere else? I mean, why not just take the blender and rebury it? Why not just keep the damn gun on you? He's part of the (laughable) security team; no one's going to pat him down for extra weapons. (Rick, on the other hand, had every reason to believe that they'd be searched when they first entered, so it makes sense that he'd try to hide it before entering.) This is why I think it's not Rick's gun. I really like the idea that Nick is a mole (besides being a rat, that is) working with another group. That makes more of the pieces fall into place for me.

Edited March 24, 2015 by maystone

[Morrigan2575]

Remember Daryl is the only reason Noah wasn't killed in Atlanta. He had to remind her of her own humanity. I'm really interested to see where her story goes

I don't think that's true. In Atlanta Carol clearly stated she was going to shoot Noah in the leg and the gun did appear to be aimed low. I don't remember if it was ever addressed again in that episode but I know they talked about humanity and figuring out who she is now.

Later in the episode, it's actually Carol who saves Noah, she's the one calling Daryl back when Noah was trapped under the bookcase. I never knew if Daryl was testing Carol or really willing to let Noah die but, I would say Carol was the reason Noah was alive not Daryl.

As for Carol/Pete and Carol/Sam, I don't think Carol is encouraging Rick to kill Pete simply because she's blood thirsty or so cold she just jumps to death as the only option. I think Carol is just really pragmatic now, she's figured out all the different possible options and knows in the end there's only 2 options, let Pete continue to beat on Jessie or kill Pete. You see a lot of this reflected in the Rick/Deanna scene.

With Carol/Sam, I think Carol has once again been forced to care about another child. She doesn't want to, after all the deaths, especially children she's totally closed off to new people. However, she clearly cares about Sam, probably because she sees herself/Sophia in Jessie/Sam's place. She was very affected by Sam's actions last week, enough to search him out and investigate what's going on with Sam's family. In this weeks episode we found out Carol is still talking to Sam and during the fight she offers comfort and protection to Sam.

[mandolin]

We did have a separate thread for one episode early on for comic talk. I liked it, but there wasn't much action then. There are more posters now so that might be different. I'd enjoy it.

As a comic reader, I refrain from posting very often in the spec threads unless it's something I can't guess on, like Daryl or Sasha. I see people post in no spoiler threads and spoilers threads. I couldn't do that! I refrain rather than risk showing my comic hand.

FWIW, I'm hard core TV spoiler free.

[Yolapukka]

 

This is why I think it's not Rick's gun.

 

The idea that Nicholas could be working with outsiders is an interesting one, but I believe that is Rick's gun. It has a large crudely carved J on it, which was on the gun Rick stowed.  I believe it was originally Joe the claimer's gun. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work that Nicholas was able to find the gun, but as has been theorized by others, someone else might have been the one to take it and told him about it. Or maybe he'd been watching the group arrive from a  vantage point before he opened the gate and spotted Rick hiding something. Honestly, I like the surprise that he has it, but I think it's been set up in a way that takes us out of it on further consideration.

Edited March 24, 2015 by yuggapukka

[kj4ever]

The idea that Nicholas could be a working with outsiders is an interesting one, but I believe that is Rick's gun. It has a large crudely carved J on it, which was on the gun Rick stowed.  I believe it was originally it was Joe the claimer's gun.

Yep I went back and rewatched when he hid it and it's the same J.

[maystone]

OK, thanks for the clarification about Rick's gun, guys. Now I'm on the "but, wait, how did he know it was there?" boat.

[I-Kare]

Also, I think some who have read the comic are more willing to take this Jess/Pete story at face value because they already know the story and where it is going. So they don't need additional scenes/lines in order to believe that Jess DV victim and not someone who is play Rick or have her son playing Carol, or whatever. The comic made up for the blanks in the story on-screen, so they are more willing to give Jessie the benefit of the doubt because of that. 

 

But those of us who have not read the comic, therefore, don't know the story, can't take the story at face value because there are things that are questionable, because of the way the writers are presenting the story on-screen. So we have to question Jess/Pete story. 

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never read the comics and I'm one of the most vocal defenders of the storyline and wanting to just let things play out before judging. I never questioned Jessie because I've never felt she gave me a reason to in her brief time on the show. That's all. =)