S04.E15: Double Date

[athelyna]

I figured Juliette went to Sean over a hotel or Monroe/Rosalee because he's the person with the most knowledge about hexenbeists that is available to her, so if she continues to send objects flying he'll be able to handle it and be able to tell her what is normal hexenbeist behavior versus what is because of her super special origin.  If she does have further episodes of unexpected telekinesis and she's staying in a normal hotel people could get hurt.  Monroe and Rosalee don't have that much hexenbeist specific knowledge.  It could have been better explained in the episode either through writing or acting, but the way this show seems to go we'll get some sort of explanation 3 or 4 episodes from now.  I couldn't hate it too much, because I loved the way Sasha Roiz played Sean's frustration with Juliette just showing up and his annoyance at everyone misunderstanding what type of wesen he is.

[luckyroll3]

Nothing better than multiple instances of shirtless Renard.  More of that please!

[shapeshifter]

So how again do they make baby earthworms?

IIRC, you can cut off a piece of one, and it grows into a new one.

[33kaitykaity]

Joining the collective irritation that a veterinarian -- a professional -- wouldn't swipe her credit card at one of the fabulous hotels in Portland they've shown on this show.  Come on.  

 

My reaction to the WOTW was meh as well.  I was like we've so been there, done that.  I didn't even watch it until my mom pestered me into it, oh, yes, it's different, really, it's different.  Like a lot of people here, it didn't take me long to realize they were the same person.  Kind of unusual, okay, fine.  Still meh.  

 

Renard is still in pain whenever he takes his shirt off.  Agreed, though, least we got to see him with his shirt off.  

 

The only thing I can think is they're saving the best for last, planning to bring the meta way back into the fore for the last episodes of the year.  Makes sense, but it better be good.  

 

Kind of off topic, sorry, but I noticed that one of the people who worked on one of my favorite all-time shows, Gilmore Girls, Helen Pai, is an associate producer on Grimm.  GG used an anagram of her name for the name of Lane's band, Hep Alien.  Cool.  

[Blue Plastic]

I didn't care for the way they left it with Linus.  They seemed to be hinting that his inability to woge back and forth would be permanent.  Although I am not a doctor, I am under the impression that hormone shots don't work like that.  I think they wear off and have to be re-administered regularly to keep being effective - though I could be wrong.  Maybe they're trying to say that it works differently for Wesen.  It's giving way too much thought to a fictional show, but I can't help thinking that there's some unsuspecting guard or fellow prisoner who is going to be there and get killed when the testosterone wears off.  I guess if they play their cards right they could turn into Stacy and get a guard to let them out, maybe without killing anyone, but neither one of them seemed too sane.

 

Juliette can go jump off a cliff now please.  Very disappointed in the direction this once-promising Hexen story has taken, but I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that this is the best this writing crew can do, they who have given us the never-ending and pointless "royals" plot.  And speaking of that, when Adalind showed up unbidden out of nowhere in the middle of the episode, I could practically hear the needle scratching across the vinyl record.

 

Did like that Monroe got to actually participate in an investigation, just like old times, and Wu's addition to the Scoobies continues to be delightful.  These things give me something to cling to, LOL.  Well that and the eye candy cough*Renard*cough.

[Prevailing Wind]

If it were permanent, transgender people wouldn't have to keep taking their hormone pills.

Edited March 29, 2015 by stacey

[Yeldarbe]

Overall I found this episode extra cheesy. This show isn't always liken that is it? I'm seriously asking.

I totally saw this guy&girl in the same body on Buffy the Vampire Slayer once...

I don't know.

It just bugged. I feel like the whole Renard-covered-in-blood thing was just an excuse to get some shirtless time in. Not complaining!

[possibilities]

Earthworms are hermaphroditic, but they are not self-fertile. So, you need two of them to copulate, and that's how you get baby worms. They hatch out of little cocoons.

 

While it is true that sometimes a worm which has had its tail cut off will re-grow the tail, they do not grow a head from the severed tail end, so cutting worms up is not a way to increase the population. Also, it's mean.

 

I have kept worms for 25 years, according to the instructions in a book called "Worms Eat My Garbage" by Mary Appelhof. The book is a fun read, with humorous illustrations. You can buy the book (and see a video of a worm heartbeat!) at www.wormwoman.com .

 

How long has Sean been bleeding? I was surprised he went to a doctor, and not to Rosalee or his powerful hexenfriend whose name I don't remember. And if he really thought it might be a normal physical problem, I was surprised he waited so long to go and get it checked. At least he got off the phone, though.

 

I have to say, I'm getting bored with the show. it used to be one of my favorites! But it's really faded a lot.

[Syme]

You just missed some classic Adalind logic. 

 

Objection! Using "Adalind" & "logic" in the same sentence is an oxymoron...

[theatremouse]

How long has Sean been bleeding? I was surprised he went to a doctor, and not to Rosalee or his powerful hexenfriend whose name I don't remember. And if he really thought it might be a normal physical problem, I was surprised he waited so long to go and get it checked. At least he got off the phone, though.

I don't know if I'm just making this up, but something about the way it played gave me the impression the waking up bloody thing had just been happening a couple days or possibly only happened twice before he went to the doctor, but that we can't necessarily trust what he described/the way he framed it to the doctor. And when he was talking about it to Rosalee afterward, I wasn't 100% sure how much time passed between the first occurrence and going there. So it's possible there was good reason it might've sounded more ongoing in one scene vs the other.

The other thing I immediately wondered as soon as I saw him in a doctor's office was: is that just a regular human medical doctor? Or is he one of the is-a-regular-MD-but-also-Wesen-and-treats-Wesen-too doctors we now know exist? Although even if this doctor were the latter, I'm pretty sure Renard would not/did not tell about his mother's role in things.

Edited March 30, 2015 by theatremouse

[OtterMommy]

I don't know if I'm just making this up, but something about the way it played gave me the impression the waking up bloody thing had just been happening a couple days or possibly only happened twice before he went to the doctor, but that we can't necessarily trust what he described/the way he framed it to the doctor. And when he was talking about it to Rosalee afterward, I wasn't 100% sure how much time passed between the first occurrence and going there. So it's possible there was good reason it might've sounded more ongoing in one scene vs the other.

The other thing I immediately wondered as soon as I saw him in a doctor's office was: is that just a regular human medical doctor? Or is he one of the is-a-regular-MD-but-also-Wesen-and-treats-Wesen-too doctors we now know exist? Although even if this doctor were the latter, I'm pretty sure Renard would not/did not tell about his mother's role in things.

 

 

Well, it only happened once on the show before--a few episodes ago--and then wasn't mentioned again.  Of course, that was before the break so it seems like it happened for the first time months ago, but it may only have been a few days in Grimm time.

 

As for the doctor, Renard would be going to see his surgeon, so it would most likely be a run-of-the-mill human doctor.

[PepperMonkey]

Mr.Monkey and I were all set to watch Grimm sans commercials and I had it loaded up and ready to go, but five minutes in, I fell asleep. I woke up after it was over and asked Mr. M if I should rewatch it and he said meh, it wasn't that great, so I have to be brutally honest and say I didn't watch it and after reading everyone's illuminating comments, I have no interest in it.

 

Especially if Adalind makes even a brief appearance. Also it sounds like Juliette is a hexenbiest/ goth or emo teenager with all her whining and complaining. Why avoid Nick? She wanted him to talk about it and he wants to talk with her. Also, for someone who spent as much time in college as she did, she's pretty stupid. She couldn't go to an ATM and get CASH and then check in at a nice but cheap-ish motel? Nick couldn't have tracked her by the cash, ffs.

 

I also don't care if Alexis Denisoff has left the show, because he seemed kind of embarrassed to be involved with it in the first place, as I am beyond exhausted with the royals story. Except for shirtless Renard. Mr. Monkey doesn't get the appeal. I'm only sorry they have now brought on ANOTHER royal, this time the old man.

Of course, I can always hope Adalind somehow convinces him HE is the father of her 3rd baby in 7 months and they will disappear to live on his yacht and never be heard from again.

Edited March 30, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[Clanstarling]

I figured Juliette went to Sean over a hotel or Monroe/Rosalee because he's the person with the most knowledge about hexenbeists that is available to her, so if she continues to send objects flying he'll be able to handle it and be able to tell her what is normal hexenbeist behavior versus what is because of her super special origin.  If she does have further episodes of unexpected telekinesis and she's staying in a normal hotel people could get hurt.  

Well, there is the hexenbeist who diagnosed her - and who has more knowledge than Sean.

 

I really didn't like Juliette this week, and maybe she was trying to convey the snappishness of a hexenbeist, but I don't know. I've never liked this character, she just gets on my nerves. Then again, it's not the actress's fault that they ask her to deliver a line demanding Nick kiss her while she's in full hexenbeist mode (last week). I mean, even if Nick wasn't shocked - where was he supposed to kiss her - there weren't any lips, just teeth and some dangly bits of flesh. Ewww.

 

I think they intend to portray her as having some steel (ie backbone) in her - like Rosalie. But Rosalie nails it, and Juliette doesn't. Even with the hexenbeist she just comes off as being pissed off and whiny.

 

And count me in on being annoyed she didn't go to a motel or hotel. Vet or not, she lives pretty well and can afford a night or two. I've known people like that in real life - who could afford to stay elsewhere, but imposed themselves on reluctant hosts who aren't even close friends but are reluctant to kick them to the curb. It's irritating.

 

As for shirtless scenes (the exemptions listed above) - you don't really know what's under those shirts...I've seen one or two actors go from schlumpy nerdy to surprisingly buff once the buttons were undone.

Edited March 31, 2015 by clanstarling

[johntfs]

Well, there is the hexenbeist who diagnosed her - and who has more knowledge than Sean.

 

I really didn't like Juliette this week, and maybe she was trying to convey the snappishness of a hexenbeist, but I don't know. I've never liked this character, she just gets on my nerves. Then again, it's not the actress's fault that they ask her to deliver a line demanding Nick kiss her while she's in full hexenbeist mode (last week). I mean, even if Nick wasn't shocked - where was he supposed to kiss her - there weren't any lips, just teeth and some dangly bits of flesh. Ewww.

 

I think they intend to portray her as having some steel (ie backbone) in her - like Rosalie. But Rosalie nails it, and Juliette doesn't. Even with the hexenbeist she just comes off as being pissed off and whiny.

 

And count me in on being annoyed she didn't go to a motel or hotel. Vet or not, she lives pretty well and can afford a night or two. I've known people like that in real life - who could afford to stay elsewhere, but imposed themselves on reluctant hosts who aren't even close friends but are reluctant to kick them to the curb. It's irritating.

 

As for shirtless scenes (the exemptions listed above) - you don't really know what's under those shirts...I've seen one or two actors go from schlumpy nerdy to surprisingly buff once the buttons were undone.

 

Go ask your doctor/therapist if you can crash with him for a few days.  Figure you'll get a "No" and a lecture about boundaries.

 

Nick is obviously out because she just left him to get distance.  Hank is out because he's so close to Nick.  Monroe and Rosalee are out because they're still a little too close and telling them "Hey, guys, I'm a hexenbiest" is pretty much like say "Hey, guys, I have leprosy-AIDS."  Meanwhile Wu is likely to treat her like a science specimen that can talk.

 

Sean makes sense because they are acquainted but not so emotionally close.  She can count on him to be supportive but also somewhat objective and to be able to offer some insight on what being a hexenbiest means.  A hotel won't really work for that unless the Gideons have begun to put Hexenbiest Bibles in every room.

 

Is what Juliette doing selfish and kind of irritating?  Sure it is, but it also feels real.  Forget separating from Nick, Juliette has just learned that she's been separated from being part of the human species.  That's a pretty fucking huge life change. 

[OtterMommy]

Meanwhile Wu is likely to treat her like a science specimen that can talk.

 

Bwa ha ha!  This is true...but it would be fun to watch!

[Clanstarling]

Go ask your doctor/therapist if you can crash with him for a few days.  Figure you'll get a "No" and a lecture about boundaries.

 

Nick is obviously out because she just left him to get distance.  Hank is out because he's so close to Nick.  Monroe and Rosalee are out because they're still a little too close and telling them "Hey, guys, I'm a hexenbiest" is pretty much like say "Hey, guys, I have leprosy-AIDS."  Meanwhile Wu is likely to treat her like a science specimen that can talk.

 

Sean makes sense because they are acquainted but not so emotionally close.  She can count on him to be supportive but also somewhat objective and to be able to offer some insight on what being a hexenbiest means.  A hotel won't really work for that unless the Gideons have begun to put Hexenbiest Bibles in every room.

 

Is what Juliette doing selfish and kind of irritating?  Sure it is, but it also feels real.  Forget separating from Nick, Juliette has just learned that she's been separated from being part of the human species.  That's a pretty fucking huge life change. 

Good points. Of course, a hotel stay, with a visit to Sean would be less annoying. I'm not saying she didn't have a huge change - and believe it or not, I would like to sympathize, I even thought this would be an interesting situation. But the acting, writing or direction (or combination thereof) is just not doing it for me - YMMV. 

[OtterMommy]

Go ask your doctor/therapist if you can crash with him for a few days.  Figure you'll get a "No" and a lecture about boundaries.

 

Nick is obviously out because she just left him to get distance.  Hank is out because he's so close to Nick.  Monroe and Rosalee are out because they're still a little too close and telling them "Hey, guys, I'm a hexenbiest" is pretty much like say "Hey, guys, I have leprosy-AIDS."  Meanwhile Wu is likely to treat her like a science specimen that can talk.

 

Sean makes sense because they are acquainted but not so emotionally close.  She can count on him to be supportive but also somewhat objective and to be able to offer some insight on what being a hexenbiest means.  A hotel won't really work for that unless the Gideons have begun to put Hexenbiest Bibles in every room.

 

 

Sean is a zauberbiest, not a hexenbiest.  There's a difference (although no one seems to know what it is).

 

My impression was that Sean and Juliette really only knew each other as passing acquaintances through Nick (aside from the crazy obsession for each other back in season 2).  ANd, frankly, he didn't look too happy to have her there.  I wonder if he would still have let her stay if he didn't have his bleeding issue and needed her to open the book.

[FormerMod-a1]

My impression was that Sean and Juliette really only knew each other as passing acquaintances through Nick

 

 

Exactly.  I think it's weird to go to your significant other's boss and ask to spend the night, or stay even longer, no matter what the circumstances are.  Heck, going to your own boss' house to do that would be weird.

[OtterMommy]

Exactly.  I think it's weird to go to your significant other's boss and ask to spend the night, or stay even longer, no matter what the circumstances are.  Heck, going to your own boss' house to do that would be weird.

 

Even weirder..Sean has been very clear that his only interest in Juliette was that she and Nick stay together so that Nick will stay in Portland.  So, why on earth, would he allow her to stay with him knowing that there was a good chance it would him Nick's enemy?

 

Unless, of course, he decided a super-powerful (but inexperienced) hexenbiest is more valuable than a Grimm.

[Eliza422]

Adalind, I have a solution for you - get an abortion. I don't know why in any pregnancy story this doesn't come up, at least as an option.

[johntfs]

Even weirder..Sean has been very clear that his only interest in Juliette was that she and Nick stay together so that Nick will stay in Portland.  So, why on earth, would he allow her to stay with him knowing that there was a good chance it would him Nick's enemy?

 

Unless, of course, he decided a super-powerful (but inexperienced) hexenbiest is more valuable than a Grimm.

 

Sean was clearly unhappy with her staying there, however, he likely saw it as the lesser of evils.  For one thing, he could use her blood to open the book.  For another, he keeps a super-powerful but inexperienced hexenbiest under his watch so she doesn't accidentally wreck downtown Portland like she wrecked that one guy's car.

 

Also, while it hasn't been spelled out, that last point could be part of Juliette's thinking as well.  She might not want to risk staying in hotel and having some kind of hexenbiest episode that kills everyone on her floor.  Such thinking could also offer a different explanation for why she slept in her car.

[OtterMommy]

Adalind, I have a solution for you - get an abortion. I don't know why in any pregnancy story this doesn't come up, at least as an option.

Especially in this case.  I mean, when she was pregnant with Diana, I got the impression that it was very much "planned."  This time, however, she doesn't want to be pregnant and she really doesn't want to be pregnant with Nick's child.

[CoderLady]

My impression was that Sean and Juliette really only knew each other as passing acquaintances through Nick (aside from the crazy obsession for each other back in season 2).  ANd, frankly, he didn't look too happy to have her there.  I wonder if he would still have let her stay if he didn't have his bleeding issue and needed her to open the book.

 

But that relationship has changed a lot since Nick became a Grimm. Since then they've battled zombies together, saved Nick from that awful little Muse creature, saved Monroe from the creeps in masks (forgot their name), got his mother involved in reGrimming Nick and other fun adventures. They're co-conspirators now and as johntfs mentions above, there are practical and tactical reasons for Renard to keep an eye on Juliette.

[Crim]

I thought Juliette's attitude with Renard was a sign of her inner Hexenbiest coming out.

I thought this too. Between this and the preview for next week, Juliette's personality is definitely affected. I'm pretty much indifferent to this.

Adalind, I have a solution for you - get an abortion. I don't know why in any pregnancy story this doesn't come up, at least as an option.

Exactly my thought last episode. The fact that Adalind says "I don't want this child" for very real reasons, but never mentions abortion is starting to make me a tad uncomfortable. The fact that this awful storyline will happen because of CC's RL pregnancy doesn't mean the writers have to treat it like an in-show necessity. I would want the show to at least mention it, even if as impossible for a Hexenbiest ("If only I could get an abortion like a human!" or something.) instead of pretending abortions don't exist / shouldn't be considered under any circumstances.

 

One thing I didn't like about the WotW was that the flow of the off-screen inter-worm dialogue was too quick considering the transformation needed between the lines. A small detail, but also it could have been easily avoided.

[theatremouse]

Adalind, I have a solution for you - get an abortion. I don't know why in any pregnancy story this doesn't come up, at least as an option.

Well if the show had its head on straight it'd realize she has to be at least six months pregnant now given how they effed themselves over by explicitly having a Christmas episode. How she could go that long and not realize she were pregnant and be thinking she could sleep with someone now to find an alternate father would jive with that is beyond me. Still if they chose for half a second to remember their botched timeine, her being too far along is one good excuse for not considering it. Edited April 1, 2015 by theatremouse

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Well, that was pretty bad.

 

 

Juliette says she must go to someone who understands what she's dealing with. No, not her sympathetic friends Rosalee and Monroe, or even whatsername the hexenbiest whisperer. No she's got to go stay with the guy she had a semi-affair with, because that makes so much more sense and doesn't promise to make her tension with Nick worse. Gah. I hate it when shows have characters resort to contrivances rather than common sense, just to crank up the emotions.

 

 

Rosalee is one hell of a chemist if she can whip up a complex molecule like testerone in her spice shop. And it's not like that's permanent. What happens when the dose they gave the guy wears off and he can become she again? It wouldn't be easy for her to explain how she got into prison, but once there she manifestly wouldn't belong in a men's prison, and is guaranteed to be taken out again. Furthermore, since our guys specified that she has no record, the authorities would have to turn her loose, eventually, no matter how many unanswered questions her presence posed. 

 

 

But the biggest WTF moment of the evening is when two trained and experiened police officers go get their untrained and inexperienced civilian friend to act as monster bait. Then they don't think to give him a method to call them if he does get into trouble. 

 

This one just wasn't thought through in the writing stage. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[Fable]

Good points. Of course, a hotel stay, with a visit to Sean would be less annoying. I'm not saying she didn't have a huge change - and believe it or not, I would like to sympathize, I even thought this would be an interesting situation. But the acting, writing or direction (or combination thereof) is just not doing it for me - YMMV. 

 

I agree.   I like Juliette, but I prefer her in a supporting role, as Nick's domestic partner and friend to the gang.   Whenever the show tries to make her the focus, it doesn't work for me, at all.   I'm not sure the actress can pull it off, and the writing definitely does her no favors.

[OtterMommy]

But the biggest WTF moment of the evening is when two trained and experiened police officers go get their untrained and inexperienced civilian friend to act as monster bait. Then they don't think to give him a method to call them if he does get into trouble. 

 

 

You know what bugged me the most about this?  Nick and Hank get it into their heads that Monroe should go undercover.  They do ask permission....of Rosalee.  Never once did they ask Monroe if he wanted to do this and, from watching his expressions, it didn't seem like he wanted to.  One more sign that Monroe has just become a means to an end for Nick.

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Oh, and there's also the bizarre stroke of luck that, out of a whole bar full of people, the first person wormy tries to hit on is the bait guy trying to catch her. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[blueray]

 

But the biggest WTF moment of the evening is when two trained and experiened police officers go get their untrained and inexperienced civilian friend to act as monster bait. Then they don't think to give him a method to call them if he does get into trouble. 

I think that Hank should have went. First of all, he has no wife /girlfriend to be cheating on and would know what is going on. Monroe and Nick should have been watching guard and Hank would have a way to contact them.

[merylinkid]

But at the time, I don't think they really knew that the change between sexes was so obvious.    If they thought it was a typical Wesen Woge, then Hank would not have been able to see it happen.   Plus, I think the woman had a type.   And it was more hairy than Hank, if you get my drift.

[laddibugg]

I guess I'm the only person who felt bad for Linus/Stacy? S/He didn't mean to kill the guy--s/he was protecting himself/herself. It was so sad seeing him call for Stacy and know she wasn't coming back anytime soon. 

[jhlipton]

Adalind, I have a solution for you - get an abortion. I don't know why in any pregnancy story this doesn't come up, at least as an option.

 

Just as no male character on TV can get a vasectomy, no woman on TV can get an abortion (and a character who mentions one is always Eeeeeeeeeeevil).  Thank you, Puritan founders.

[OtterMommy]

Just as no male character on TV can get a vasectomy, no woman on TV can get an abortion (and a character who mentions one is always Eeeeeeeeeeevil).  Thank you, Puritan founders.

 

Agree...of course, it is possible that she can't have an abortion at this point.  I mean, who can tell how far along she is?  She found out what we think would be a couple of weeks ago in Grimm Time and now she looks like she's about to drop the kid out of her uterus on the street.

 

Of course, this could be an opportunity for the writers to explain a bit more what a hexenbiest is.  From what I can tell, the hexenbiest is 2 parts--the person and the inner witch, the latter of which can be removed.  Perhaps the writers could explain because of that, hexenbiests can't have abortions because they'd be freeing fetal witches into the universe.

 

It sounds crazy, but it is far less crazy from what they already have going on.

[jhlipton]

Perhaps the writers could explain because of that, hexenbiests can't have abortions because they'd be freeing fetal witches into the universe.

 

There could be an explanation but we'll never hear it because abortions don't exist on TV (TPTB don't want the anti-choice folks coming after them).