Ratings, Scheduling, and Watching for Cancellation/Renewal

[HalcyonDays]

Told ya all they knew....knew it was over. Show's over folks.

[CalamityBoPeep]

Told ya all they knew....knew it was over. Show's over folks.

 

I didn't want you to be right. But now I do want you to be right.

 

So, I guess they've done something for me, in that they've freed me from having to think about it. I sincerely hope Tom gets some good gigs on some other network, so I can see that lovely man on my screen again. But even if the show's not technically over... for me, I guess it is. I can't see watching it anymore, after the way they've handled things with Nicole. And what is Sleepy Hollow without the partnership between Tom and Nicole, anyway? It's just a monster-chasing tv show.

 

I'm just so very sad right now.

[Sparkling Beth]

The more I hear about the [probable] unfair treatment of Nicole, the sadder I get. White men always get preferential treatment when it comes to money, job perks and professional status. I hate that women are always getting the short end of the stick and that black women get even a shorter stick. I wish Nicole well. I hope she finds a better gig soon and thank her for her hard work, dedication and professionalism in regards to SH. The only thing that would make me feel a little bit better is if I knew that TM went to bat for her or tried to. Guess he didn't or we'll never know. Fox, CC, MRM and the rest can go to hell.

This is so true.  Think Larry Hagman on Dallas, who held out for more money and got it, versus Suzanne Somers on Three's Company, who was dumped from the show when she demanded more money.  Think Erik Estrada on Chips, who walked off the show and was brought back with a higher salary, versus Valerie Harper who was FIRED FROM HER OWN EPONYMOUS SHOW.  The producers killed off her character and changed the name of the show from Valerie to Valerie's Family, and then to The Hogan Family.  Honestly, it seems to me that male stars almost always win their contract disputes and female stars almost always lose theirs.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Sparkling Beth

[Enigma X]

Without Nicole Beharie there is no Sleepy Hollow. I hope to see Nicole and Tom (the co-leads) and most of the rest of the cast in bigger and better things, even if separately, in the future. 

[frenchtoast]

This is the Ratings and Scheduling Topic, not the let's bicker about Nicole Beharie topic. Quite a few posts were just removed for bickering and being off topic. Remember, it's not required that we all agree. If one says the Yankees SUCK, and you like the Yankees, a constant stream of arguing and bickering and saying, "I don't get why you say the Yankees SUCK" is getting too personal and nasty. And we'll have to go through and delete a whole bunch of posts. 

 

And keep it on topic.

[Morrigan2575]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/ratings-news-9th-april-2016.html?m=1

Sleepy Hollow scored a 0.7/2.91 million viewers.

[phoenics]

The show hemorrhages about 50% viewers between seasons. The show - if it comes back - won't make it. I won't wish that it fails, but clearly it won't be SH if it comes back. Poor Tom Mison, but I'm not going to watch a S4.

[HalcyonDays]

The show hemorrhages about 50% viewers between seasons. The show - if it comes back - won't make it. I won't wish that it fails, but clearly it won't be SH if it comes back. Poor Tom Mison, but I'm not going to watch a S4.

 

The Hollywood Reporter is saying today that the show is likely to be renewed. I just don't see how? Unless they cast another actress as Abbie!Reincarnated that everyone really really likes and maybe get some newer viewers, but otherwise, who will watch? It's just so strange that they think there is a chance...

[Bad Bitch In Red]

The Hollywood Reporter is saying today that the show is likely to be renewed. I just don't see how? Unless they cast another actress as Abbie!Reincarnated that everyone really really likes and maybe get some newer viewers, but otherwise, who will watch? It's just so strange that they think there is a chance...

 

I guess Fox literally doesn't have anything to replace it.  Must be Sleepy Hollow or dead air.

[CalamityBoPeep]

The Hollywood Reporter is saying today that the show is likely to be renewed. I just don't see how? Unless they cast another actress as Abbie!Reincarnated that everyone really really likes and maybe get some newer viewers, but otherwise, who will watch? It's just so strange that they think there is a chance...

 

They probably think we're all just children throwing hissy fits, but we'll be back out of curiosity, when they'll blow us away with the awesomeness of their next installment. The thing is... my anger isn't a tantrum. It's a cold, clear-eyed ending. And I suspect that's the case for a lot of viewers. 

 

Reality will have its way though. It always does. So, if they're so foolish as to expect this to pass and be forgotten, they'll just have to learn the hard way.

[Three]

They probably think we're all just children throwing hissy fits, but we'll be back out of curiosity, when they'll blow us away with the awesomeness of their next installment.

 

Yep, arrogance.

[DJG1122]

The Hollywood Reporter is saying today that the show is likely to be renewed. I just don't see how? Unless they cast another actress as Abbie!Reincarnated that everyone really really likes and maybe get some newer viewers, but otherwise, who will watch? It's just so strange that they think there is a chance...

FOX's only possible saving shot is to bring back Frank Irving...............

[phoenics]

I think they think we'll just come back and hang out with them and watch out of curiosity. Nope. The writing this season was actually not very good at all... weak villains, weak storyline, bad pacing and none of the batshit crazy stuff that we all loved about this show.

Basically the ONLY thing keeping me attached to the show was #Ichabbie. Literally - that's it.

Halfway through the season when it felt like it was a chore to watch the show because it simply WAS NOT satisfying, I stuck it out due to the hope that I'd get #Ichabbie.

But that will never ever happen, so whatever. I no longer have a reason to watch. I'm free of it and have no desire to go back. Good luck to those that do go back.

The way the show typically hemorrhages viewers between seasons, the show will probably premiere at a 0.3 or 0.4... which would be a death knell. I hope the only reason TM wants to come back is because he doesn't have anything lined up and wants a little time to get it together. And I really hope it WAS NB's choice - but if it wasn't her choice, I really hope we find out RIGHT BEFORE the S4 premiere so we can BLAST the show and kill off the rest of it with righteous fire.

FOX's only possible saving shot is to bring back Frank Irving...............

He'd never come back.

[vanarnd1]

Well the weird thing is according to EW, FOX gave them a statement saying they were discussing a fourth season

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/08/sleepy-hollow-death-network-statement

 

"The executive producers, studio, and network released this statement to EW:

    “The finale featuring the tragic death of Abbie Mills was a very dramatic ending and a bold move for the show, but Sleepy Hollow has always been known for its shocking finales. We feel we provided a wonderfully poignant conclusion for Abbie and showed some of the best moments between the Witnesses that we’ve seen on-screen. We thank Nicole Beharie for bringing Abbie and Sleepy Hollow to life. We are currently discussing season 4, and should the series be picked up for another season, we have some exciting scenarios and new avenues we want to explore.”

 

I never remember a situation where a network publicly said that were discussing a show's future, usually you only hear official renewal announcements.  I just find it so painfully ironic that the second they get of Abbie all of the sudden there is this burst of optimism regarding next season. It just makes no sense to me.

[HalcyonDays]

I hope the only reason TM wants to come back is because he doesn't have anything lined up and wants a little time to get it together.

 

I'm assuming with the new family, he just wants to bank some cash before the show goes under. They said they are negotiating with him now, so he's obviously game and hopefully pushing for more money. Surprises me though, because he very well knows the show was the chemistry between him and NB.

 

I am going to be very curious to see - if there is a season 4 - which writers stay and which ones leave. It will be very telling...

[jhlipton]

FOX's only possible saving shot is to bring back Frank Irving...............

 

That would just make me madder.  The current Hollywood thinking seems to be that black men are sexy (see D. B. Woodside as Amenadiel: in Lucifer and Morris Chestnut as Dr. Beaumont Rosewood, Jr in Rosewood) but black women are scary!

[phoenics]

That would just make me madder.  The current Hollywood thinking seems to be that black men are sexy (see D. B. Woodside as Amenadiel: in Lucifer and Morris Chestnut as Dr. Beaumont Rosewood, Jr in Rosewood) but black women are scary!

This has pretty much always been the case. The era of Shonda changed it barely, but it's going back to the status quo.

[benteen]

I think they think we'll just come back and hang out with them and watch out of curiosity. Nope. The writing this season was actually not very good at all... weak villains, weak storyline, bad pacing and none of the batshit crazy stuff that we all loved about this show.

Basically the ONLY thing keeping me attached to the show was #Ichabbie. Literally - that's it.

Halfway through the season when it felt like it was a chore to watch the show because it simply WAS NOT satisfying, I stuck it out due to the hope that I'd get #Ichabbie.

But that will never ever happen, so whatever. I no longer have a reason to watch. I'm free of it and have no desire to go back. Good luck to those that do go back.

The way the show typically hemorrhages viewers between seasons, the show will probably premiere at a 0.3 or 0.4... which would be a death knell. I hope the only reason TM wants to come back is because he doesn't have anything lined up and wants a little time to get it together. And I really hope it WAS NB's choice - but if it wasn't her choice, I really hope we find out RIGHT BEFORE the S4 premiere so we can BLAST the show and kill off the rest of it with righteous fire.

He'd never come back.

 

0.3 to 0.4 sounds about right.  That is like the ratings for a low-rated basic cable TV show.  Even in today's era, a show doesn't stay on the air with a number like that.  If they get renewed, it will be a testament to just how dire things are with Fox's TV lineup. 

[Fable]

This has to have been one of the most unbelievable finales I have ever seen.  Something behind the scenes must have been horribly wrong, otherwise I can't even imagine the show runners' decision to do this.  Surely someone in charge had to have known that Abbie's and Ichabod's partnership was the draw for this show.  I have no interest whatsoever in Season 4.  I was never a shipper but I am devastated by the loss of the lovely Abbie and incredible bond she and Crane had.   

[theatremouse]

"The executive producers, studio, and network released this statement to EW:

    “The finale featuring the tragic death of Abbie Mills was a very dramatic ending and a bold move for the show, but Sleepy Hollow has always been known for its shocking finales. We feel we provided a wonderfully poignant conclusion for Abbie and showed some of the best moments between the Witnesses that we’ve seen on-screen. We thank Nicole Beharie for bringing Abbie and Sleepy Hollow to life. We are currently discussing season 4, and should the series be picked up for another season, we have some exciting scenarios and new avenues we want to explore.”

 

I never remember a situation where a network publicly said that were discussing a show's future, usually you only hear official renewal announcements.  I just find it so painfully ironic that the second they get of Abbie all of the sudden there is this burst of optimism regarding next season. It just makes no sense to me.

Emphasis mine. I don't think whoever wrote that official statement knows what those words mean.

[arjumand]

Well the weird thing is according to EW, FOX gave them a statement saying they were discussing a fourth season

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/08/sleepy-hollow-death-network-statement

 

"The executive producers, studio, and network released this statement to EW:

    “The finale featuring the tragic death of Abbie Mills was a very dramatic ending and a bold move for the show, but Sleepy Hollow has always been known for its shocking finales. We feel we provided a wonderfully poignant conclusion for Abbie and showed some of the best moments between the Witnesses that we’ve seen on-screen. We thank Nicole Beharie for bringing Abbie and Sleepy Hollow to life. We are currently discussing season 4, and should the series be picked up for another season, we have some exciting scenarios and new avenues we want to explore.”

 

I never remember a situation where a network publicly said that were discussing a show's future, usually you only hear official renewal announcements.  I just find it so painfully ironic that the second they get of Abbie all of the sudden there is this burst of optimism regarding next season. It just makes no sense to me.

 

It looks to me that they weren't expecting the outburst of outrage and pure fury Abbie's 'death' got (hey, I live by soap opera rules - no body means not dead . . . shit, that means Katrina isn't dead either! What have i done?).

 

I know it's difficult to accept that writers and show-runners in 2016 can be so utterly tone-deaf to the implications of things they write, but we've seen it in other shows. I winced when I read Orlando Jones' tweet about fucking shit up if something happens to Iris West - in the Flash fandom we've been complaining about the treatment of Iris West almost from the beginning of the show. Even so, and without her being the co-lead in any way, at least she hasn't been killed off in a way that implies she was only ever the water-carrier for the real star.

 

So now, everyone is scrambling, and pointing fingers, and begging the audience not to leave. I don't know if it'll affect the renewal or not - all I know is that I gave up on season two after Katrina ate the show (I've only recently watched the last two episodes), watched season three until Pandora's sing-song whisper-talking got on my last nerve, and I won't be back for a Season 4 without Abbie Mills.

[benteen]

It's amazing the showrunners can be as tone deaf as they are.  They should know that the Crane/Abbie relationship is the key piece of the show, the only reason people were still watching.  To me it shows a complete disregard for the audience.  You can disregard your audience if you're pulling in massive ratings but doing that when your show is struggling for survival season to season?  Just mind-boggling.

Edited April 10, 2016 by benteen

[Sasha]

It's amazing the showrunners can be as tone deaf as they are. They should know that the Crane/Abbie relationship is the key piece of the show, the only reason people were still watching. To me it shows a complete disregard for the audience. You can disregard your audience if you pulling in massive ratings but doing that when your show is struggling for survival season to season? Just mind-boggling.

But remember how they kept telling us they heard the complaints? They new they fucked up and were so sorry. Please stick with us we will fix everything? Then we get this cluster fuck of a season three. The minute I saw the makeup and boobs of Betsy Ross I was just gobsmacked! Another god damn Katrina. It was a bait and switch from the start. I won't watch a S4 and really have no desire to stick with any Fox show. They can't be trusted.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Sasha

[DeLurker]

It's amazing the showrunners can be as tone deaf as they are.  They should know that the Crane/Abbie relationship is the key piece of the show, the only reason people were still watching.  To me it shows a complete disregard for the audience.  You can disregard your audience if you're pulling in massive ratings but doing that when your show is struggling for survival season to season?  Just mind-boggling.

I really have to question what they are seeing?  Because NB and TM were gold together - and I don't care if they kept it platonic or turned into a relationship.  But they need - well, I need - both of the witnesses. 

[jhlipton]

Emphasis mine. I don't think whoever wrote that official statement knows what those words mean.

 

That's innnnconnnceivable!

[DeLurker]

I think this is the first time I ever vehemently wanted a show to be cancelled.  Most of the time if I don't like it?  Whatever, I can chose not to watch.

 

I don't wish ill for TM  - in fact, I would like to see him show up on a more worthy show.

[HalcyonDays]

I don't wish ill for TM  - in fact, I would like to see him show up on a more worthy show.

 

Neither do I. Not at all. I wish both of them the best, but he's going to be dragged into this somehow. In fact, I'm already seeing blame (not here) being aimed at him.

 

I know he probably wants the income, re: new family, but you have to hope that this doesn't somehow backfire on him if S4 is a go...

 

And I still just have no clue who FOX thinks the audience will be...

[C76]

They probably think we're all just children throwing hissy fits, but we'll be back out of curiosity, when they'll blow us away with the awesomeness of their next installment. The thing is... my anger isn't a tantrum. It's a cold, clear-eyed ending. And I suspect that's the case for a lot of viewers. 

 

Reality will have its way though. It always does. So, if they're so foolish as to expect this to pass and be forgotten, they'll just have to learn the hard way.

 

It's more than viewers. ;) I'm very pleased to say that I have yet to read a positive review in the media. Hopefully someone at FOX will get a clue.

 

I think this is the first time I ever vehemently wanted a show to be cancelled.  Most of the time if I don't like it?  Whatever, I can chose not to watch.

 

I don't wish ill for TM  - in fact, I would like to see him show up on a more worthy show.

 

Nothing about this has changed my love for TM. To tell the truth, I keep fantasizing about NB and TM being reunited on a new, better production that has nothing to do with the newly-founded hell that SH has become.

 

***

 

As far as I'm concerned, the only way to save SH is to revamp the team behind it. I have a theory about different people who may be at fault regarding what happened--NB wanting to leave, Abbie getting killed off--but only the ones who work on the series know the actual truth. At this point, it doesn't matter to me who it is: a network executive, a writer, or writers. I can only imagine the show coming back in a healthy way after a changing of the guard...Or a severe reprimand.

 

And of course, rehiring Nicole Beharie--if she's available.

[LeeLeePanda]

Nothing about this has changed my love for TM. To tell the truth, I keep fantasizing about NB and TM being reunited on a new, better production that has nothing to do with the newly-founded hell that SH has become.

I recently read Kindred by Octavia Butler, and I really would love to see Nicole as Dana and Tom as Kevin if its ever adapted into a movie. It will never happen, but a girl can dream.

[jhlipton]

I recently read Kindred by Octavia Butler, and I really would love to see Nicole as Dana and Tom as Kevin if its ever adapted into a movie. It will never happen, but a girl can dream.

 

It has a better chance than Fledgling!  But Kevin is really a small role -- the men and boys playing Rufus have a much bigger part., It could be an good movie, although I'm not sure Beharie would be interested.

Edited April 11, 2016 by jhlipton

[Indi]

I don't wish ill for TM  - in fact, I would like to see him show up on a more worthy show.

 

The thing about renegotiating his contract for the possible S4, I was like, "Are you sure you don't think you deserve better than this show right now?" I mean, as horrible as SH turned out, he hasn't been touched by this disaster and people regard him fondly. I'm sure fans will follow him happily to his next show.

[HalcyonDays]

The thing about renegotiating his contract for the possible S4, I was like, "Are you sure you don't think you deserve better than this show right now?" I mean, as horrible as SH turned out, he hasn't been touched by this disaster and people regard him fondly. I'm sure fans will follow him happily to his next show.

 

TM had the same problems that most of us mudflaps have - we have to earn a living. He has a family to consider, or the bare minimum, bills to pay, etc etc. Sometimes people stick around or decide to suffer through an untenable situation to basically make some cash and live. Trust me, I should know. Others have the luxury or the balls to say fuck it, quit and hope for better. I suspect NB is the latter, and maybe right now, TM is the former. He may well think he deserves something much better - a lot of us do (and with his talent, he truly does). But if the opportunities are not there, some of us stay in stagnant jobs. Fact of life. He may be an actor, but he's not like a Brad Pitt or a Harrison Ford or a Bradley Cooper or whoever, who can command $15 million a picture. So I suspect he's banking the cash now, for the lean times (if they occur) later.

[Three]

Sorry, wrong thread. I'll move it over to the discussion with the other casting directors.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Three

[BestestAuntEver]

Damn, another reason to miss this board and you wonderful posters. Octavia Butler fans.

[bobbysgurl]

TM had the same problems that most of us mudflaps have - we have to earn a living. He has a family to consider, or the bare minimum, bills to pay, etc etc. Sometimes people stick around or decide to suffer through an untenable situation to basically make some cash and live. Trust me, I should know. Others have the luxury or the balls to say fuck it, quit and hope for better. I suspect NB is the latter, and maybe right now, TM is the former. He may well think he deserves something much better - a lot of us do (and with his talent, he truly does). But if the opportunities are not there, some of us stay in stagnant jobs. Fact of life. He may be an actor, but he's not like a Brad Pitt or a Harrison Ford or a Bradley Cooper or whoever, who can command $15 million a picture. So I suspect he's banking the cash now, for the lean times (if they occur) later.

I don't know what a mudflat is, but I can tell you this: I left an office job to work in a fast food joint because some shady shit was going on that wasn't right. Sometimes, you have to do what you have to do. With that said, I don't expect Tom to leave his job because what was done to NB had nothing to do with him. He will survive whether he chooses to stay or go, but with NB it will probably be different.

By the same token, if the vehicle that may get produced for TM as a S4 for SH fails, I won't blame NB because she chose to leave that pile of shit.

[HalcyonDays]

A mudflap is jokey term my coworkers have used for years use to describe the minions of a workplace. A mudflap is the piece of rubber that hangs behind the wheels of a car, and basically collects the dirt and muck that flings off the wheels. The wheels are management and the mudflaps are the minions who work (suffer) under them.

 

That's why I said in another thread, that some people decide to put up with the crap, others decide to leave. One's financial and personal circumstances and one's relative comfort with risk influence the decision. I've done both. Stuck with a job I hated for years, and left another because it was killing me. Everyone's circumstances are different which is why NB and TM's decisions are neither wrong but right for them.

[Carrie Ann]

My gut feeling is to disagree that NB is in some sort of sweeter financial position than TM, and therefore feels free to leave because she doesn't "have to work." She hasn't had super high-profile gigs outside of this, and what she did have came before SH. But more importantly, it's because I would almost guarantee you that Tom's paycheck is higher than hers. I base that on the reality of Hollywood, where men still get paid higher rates than their female counterparts almost 100% of the time. David Duchovny made double what Gillian Anderson made for The X Files, and when they wanted to do the revival, Fox tried to pull that shit on her again. Even though she has had, IMO, the better post-TXF career. Even though she was the one who stayed through the end of the series run. The only reason she found out and ended up getting paid what she deserved is because David told her himself what he was getting paid to make sure she got the same.

 

My point is that I think neither NB or TM were very high-profile prior to SH, so they were coming in on fairly equal footing, and my assumption would be that Tom's salary is higher than Nicole's. I don't think she walked away because she is in any more of a comfortable financial position than he is. In fact, I'd say it's more likely to be the opposite. JMO, and of course no way to know, but I feel that way given how slighted she seems to have felt, and things like how emotional she was about this:

 

I recently went to Comic-Con in London, I was invited without the white male counterpart of my cast. And it was packed. They knew it was just gonna be me. So that shook me. I went back to the green room and I was like… I’ve always been told, and I believed, that this doesn’t work without him.

 

Seems to me that TPTB found one member of that team indispensable and one...not as much. Imagine if it had been Tom expressing his frustration and desire to leave during S2 through S3. Imagine what they would have done to keep him. Consider whether you believe they went to those same lengths for Nicole, because I highly, highly doubt they did.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[phoenics]

That quote from Comic Con in London from Nicole still shakes me.  It's similar to Taraji's experience when they did a screening of Empire to a Parisian audience and she (operating on the same belief that Nicole had) thought they wouldn't embrace her, but they LOVED her.

 

I think the world is fine.  For the most part.  It's Hollywood trying to hold onto an old, outdated, and frankly money-leaking model of a homogenous world that ruins it for everyone.

 

I'm so sad that Sleepy Hollow's treatment of Nicole has now given her cause to go back to her earlier thinking.  Sadly it's forced all of us to abandon the hope we felt when Nicole originally did this interview.  Hollywood will never stop upholding a white supremacist status quo as long as it has breath.  It's going to take a complete revamping and cleaning of house to change this.  Even when the US gets to a place where whites are the minority compared to the numbers of people of color, Hollywood will still be selling whiteness as the norm and the center of everything.

 

I will forever be grateful to Merlin for not giving into hateful racism of some of its fans.  They even slapped some of them in the face on their way to telling the story they had from the beginning that was originally created for a non-black Guinevere.  Because they cast a black actress, they DID NOT deviate from their original plan.  They stuck to it.  I was so glad.

 

ETA:  Nicole Beharie was unearthly in her beauty in that Essence clip - I mean just stunningly gorgeous.  I need her makeup approach and skincare approach.  She's flawless.  SH never did her beauty justice.  

 

Also I felt some kind of way about Laverne Cox interrupting nearly every woman who was there.  Perhaps I shouldn't, but it was so glaring I had to comment on it.  I guess some habits born from privilege don't die just because you're trans-gender.

Edited April 12, 2016 by phoenics

[HalcyonDays]

My gut feeling is to disagree that NB is in some sort of sweeter financial position than TM, and therefore feels free to leave because she doesn't "have to work."

 

My gut is the opposite. From what I know, the first two years of SH filming in North Carolina, TM rented a flat, while NB rented an entire house. Before SH, TM was renting a flat in London with a roommate. I think NB's been in a few more films as a more central role, therefore more bigger income.

 

Also, knowing she wanted to leave before S3, tells me money wasn't an issue.

 

My point is that I think neither NB or TM were very high-profile prior to SH, so they were coming in on fairly equal footing, and my assumption would be that Tom's salary is higher than Nicole's.

 

Considering FOX's history, this is quite possible. However, I suspect FOX may have signed both to similar contracts, especially since NB was signed first and TM was lesser known. Save some budget, because they can.

 

Also other things to consider. TM is a British citizen. Have you seen the exchange rate recently? Both are being paid in American dollars. Right now, $10K US is only $7K in British pounds. Already his take home pay is less once he converts. Plus, as an British citizen working on a Visa, whom does he pay taxes to? If he files, is he paying taxes to the US government, or the British government? I think he has to declare income to the British government. Already, the marginal tax rates are higher in England. If he files income and has to pay taxes in British pounds to the UK government, he already is paying more money out once the exchange rate kicks in. His income will be less, but he is still in one of the - if not the highest - tax brackets. I am sure there are workarounds (just ask Bono) and a tax expert can correct me, but he's out more already.

 

Let's just say NB can file in her home state of Florida. Quick tax calculators show that if she made $500,000, she would pay ~$170,000 in tax. TM would only have earned £350,000 ($500K USD converted) and would have to pay £143,000 in taxes ($204 USD). Already a significant difference. (Yes, I realize there are deductions - this is quick and dirty calculations and no factoring in other tax credits.) These are just assumptions and speculations - I am sure there are workarounds.

 

Also, the real estate market in certain cities. London, NY, Los Angeles, Vancouver and Toronto are notorious right now for ridiculous rent and property prices. So not only does his pay not go as far, but living in London is prohibitive. In fact, there was an article recently abut how ridiculous London prices are, and how multimillionaries are buying small houses and building down into the ground several stories to increase living space. TM's income is not going to go near as far as NB's.

_________________________________________________________

 

I have a feeling FOX is weighing the response to the episode, looking at negotiations and trying to figure out if they can still make a profit if the show gets renewed. I think we will know in a week or two before the May 16th upfronts.

 

SpoilerTV updated their Cancellation predictions from a 5.13 (closer to 5.00, less likely to be) to a 5.33. You think, SpoilerTV?

 

TVLine and TvBytheNumbers are unchanged.

 

Cancellation Bear tweeted today that FOX has "a lot of real estate to fill".

[bobbysgurl]

^^^

There is NO freaking way FOX paid NB more money than TM. If you don't believe me watch Patricia Arquette's acceptance speech at the Oscars. This just doesn't happen here in the States.

As far as renting a house as opposed to an apartment goes, that is strictly preference here in the States. I can see TM renting or leasing an apartment since he is from the UK. NB probably grew up in a single-family home IN THE SOUTH, so she preferred a house.

Why is all this necessary? As a WOC, I know the state of these United States when it comes to hiring practices. Hiring practices and salaries are entirely in the hands of the corporation. The law de damned.

This isn't about NB vs TM. This is about the piece of shit called SH and the assholes who had enough power to do what they did to NB.

[Carrie Ann]

I...really don't care to consider their tax implications or how they choose to spend their money or where they choose to live. And I certainly don't blame Tom for staying on with the show, at all. I think most people would do that. My point was: saying that Tom is continuing to work on the show because he needs money, where Nicole was willing to leave the show because she doesn't, really doesn't seem based in fact, to me.

 

When I say that I think she made less than Tom, it's because of facts like these. If she were to have made more than him, she would have had to be a star, not just a bit more experienced than him. That's the business. Would people dare to say things to her that indicated that Tom was the critical part of the show, not her, if she were respected so highly that they would pay her more than him? I doubt it. Would she really feel so slighted if she were being paid at a level that indicated the studio's respect for her? I doubt it.

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, that's fine. I just don't feel comfortable seeing Nicole treated as though she just jumped ship because she's privileged, when she's a part of a demographic--black women--that is compensated at the lowest rate compared to every other in this country, and when she's been treated like dirt by TPTB. Yes, Nicole obviously had to make a choice between her regular SH paycheck and her happiness, and she chose the latter, but that doesn't mean it was an easy choice or that any of us know the first thing about her financial situation. She may be in a tight financial place for awhile and maybe that was worth it to her to preserve her own mental health.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[HalcyonDays]

Everyone has reasons for what they do, decisions they make. Fact is, none of us know 100% and we will never know unless it comes straight from the actors and there is financial proof. It's all speculation, just like speculating on why FOX thinks they can renew the show and be profitable in season 4.

[bobbysgurl]

NBC Nightly News is about to do a segment as I type on why women make $.79 of every $1.00 men make.

[phoenics]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that NB was paid less than TM.  I'm sure that also factored in her decision to leave.  She has quite a few quotes and things that she's liked/shared on instagram/twitter that speak to learning how to not accept less than you deserve, etc..  if you read through those, it becomes obvious why she'd leave.

 

Also - the women making less than men thing is real.  And it may not have started out as being anything to do with TM - they tend to pay men more.  And women tend to NOT negotiate harder upfront.  And especially in Hollywood, women are branded with labels if they stick up for themselves.  NB leaving was probably the biggest statement she could actually make without being called a bitch.

 

I run a team with women and men.  And even though I personally am very conscious of salary and want to make sure I don't offer women less than men for the same role, it still happened.  Because many of the women simply took my first offer (NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!) and the men haggled.  I think I'm the only woman on my team who pushed for more and in the end still ended up taking a pay cut at the time.

[AmandaPanda]

Back on topic, please.

[bobbysgurl]

How can anyone watch this video and not see IT.  This vid is of TM and NB, not Ichabbie.

 

 

I browsed YouTube for every interview done by the cast of SH after the pilot aired.  Both Tom and Nicole looked very happy.  Before S2, the entire cast did an interview, where TM and KW were in the center of the group and NB was at the end.  I believe things had changed then. 

 

 

I found an interview of Tom and Nichole before S3 started, and she never really "smiled" and I don't think she looked at Tom once.  It is the interview where Nicole tells the interviewer that Ichabbie were living together.

 

 

It was obvious that something was wrong.  Now, we have the S3 finale to prove it.

 

I think NB was not happy since the beginning of S2 when she realized what changes were going to be made.  I do believe the TPTB knew she wanted out that far back.  If they strung us along, its a strong possibility that they strung NB along also.  Maybe they were so brutal with Abbie's demise because NB couldn't be sold a load of horse shit.  They made it clear with the finale that she was not welcome back at SH.

 

[Three]

Something's definitely NQR in that last video. It looks uncomfortable when she is discussing how attractive Lance Gross is too. Sad.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Three

[blixie]

I LOVE that Drunk in Love video, they are frickin' ADORBS, damn you to hell Fox for treating Nikki like an afterthought rather than the lynchpin to your damn show.

 

 

Would people dare to say things to her that indicated that Tom was the critical part of the show, not her, if she were respected so highly that they would pay her more than him? I doubt it. Would she really feel so slighted if she were being paid at a level that indicated the studio's respect for her? I doubt it.

 

Right, though I did find it interesting in the Afterbuzz take down of the finale that one girl mentioned she works in TV production it's SUPER unusual for an actor/actress to be released from the kind of long term standard contracts that are signed by series leads/regulars, that in fact when their released early they have to pay huge contractual penalties for leaving, so by no stick was Nikki not taking a financial hit by choosing to leave. I think also the media reports indicated that it's unclear if she's even been released from her contract, so they could be letting her go, because as they've shown over the last two seasons they are HAPPY to be rid of the black woman lead, who was clearly standing in the way of the shows potentially greater success. 

 

And I thought I was done with my rage spiral. 

[DeLurker]

Right, though I did find it interesting in the Afterbuzz take down of the finale that one girl mentioned she works in TV production it's SUPER unusual for an actor/actress to be released from the kind of long term standard contracts that are signed by series leads/regulars, that in fact when their released early they have to pay huge contractual penalties for leaving, so by no stick was Nikki not taking a financial hit by choosing to leave. I think also the media reports indicated that it's unclear if she's even been released from her contract, so they could be letting her go, because as they've shown over the last two seasons they are HAPPY to be rid of the black woman lead, who was clearly standing in the way of the shows potentially greater success. 

 

And I thought I was done with my rage spiral. 

I'm inclined to think they wanted to be free of NB because she was cluttering up their damn show and making their love interests for Crane look stiff.  And wooden.  And and and...  Bastages.

[catrox14]

Mison must always be in character when he wears Ichabod's togs. His accent is different in other interviews.