S01.E15: The Ninth Circle

[thewhiteowl]

 

Elizabeth heads to Turkey to mend political relations after the Turkish government releases a video that could be damaging to the CIA. Also, Jason is threatened with expulsion after punching a bully at school.

 

[sinkwriter]

I had a gut feeling about that guy (who's part of the coup), but I wanted to be wrong. This is becoming more and more like The X-Files: Trust no one!   ;)

 

I'm glad Elizabeth and her friend are on the mend, however slowly it will take to rebuild trust. (Elizabeth should buy her a new mattress, though. That might help start the healing process. Then again, if I were her friend, after everything I'd been put through I'd worry she'd give me a bugged mattress, bringing whole new meaning to "bed bugs." Heh.)

I'm a little annoyed about the way that school handled Jason's altercation with that other kid. Bullying should be taken into account. It's tough to be sorry for something when the other kid's been tormenting you. I get their "nonviolence" approach, I even appreciate it, but nothing is ever so black and white.

[mbutterfly]

I know some pretty devout Quakers and none of them would have taken the stance of this principal. She's on a power trip. 

[sinkwriter]

I wondered if perhaps she used the opportunity to take out on Jason any feelings she had against Elizabeth and her politics. That really sucks.

[kwnyc]

I wondered if perhaps she used the opportunity to take out on Jason any feelings she had against Elizabeth and her politics. That really sucks.

 

I do think that's something that all the kids are either having or going to have to deal with and learn how to react to it.

 

And, it bugged me that the bully actually shoved Jason 3 time (which was never acknowledged)...they made a point of showing all the kids taking photos of it...did no one catch that the other kid started it?

 

I do respect that Professor Dr. Arm Candy and the Madam listened to Jason when he said he was unhappy in the school...though the big Quaker school in the DC area (Sidwell...my brother in law used to teach there) is not known as the place where the super-rich deposit their kids...the kids are expected to give back and have a social conscience.

 

Also, in the A plot, the head of the CIA had some fucking nerve to orchestrate a coup in Iran right under the nose of the POTUS/guy who gave him a career. I expect a long stay in Gitmo for HIM.

[Netfoot]

Another good episode.

 

Happy Liz and Isabelle are mending their relationship.  It could have been damned awkward.

 

Gitmo?  The guy should have been lifted off the floor by the two bruisers who brought him in, and taken into the basement with a canvass bag over his head.  Gitmo is far too nice an option!

 

Trust Stevie to stir the shit, pushing for the "un-friending".  Then, what?  Young Jason was supposed to let the guy poke and prod and trash-talk his mom?  Non-violence my ass.  Since when should kids be raised to be doormats?   On the way out of the headmistress's office, Jason should have popped him another one in the snoot. 

[missbonnie]

Man this show is just written so nice and tight. The pacing is perfect and the actors are perfect for their roles. I am dying to see what happens next week. One question, did Daisy quit or what?

[bros402]

Man this show is just written so nice and tight. The pacing is perfect and the actors are perfect for their roles. I am dying to see what happens next week. One question, did Daisy quit or what?

 

She might've been temporarily reassigned to other duties.

 

Also, i'm pretty sure Secret Service policy dictates that the immediate family of whoever receives their protection must also have agents with them - as you can't exactly protect your asset without protecting people that could be used as leverage against them.

 

I'm guessing if we have any scenes of the son in public school/a non super-rich school, he will be followed by secret service, otherwise, that's just asking for a "OH NO MY KID HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND I'M THE SECRETARY OF STATE!" plot

[Beach Party]

The episode showed a nice contrast in how Elizabeth could calmly handle critical negotiations with foreign ministers, yet lost her cool in a school conference.  I found it distasteful the way Elizabeth reacted in the meeting with the head of the school.  Elizabeth referenced the State Department (granted, the principal did bait her first), which I felt was analogous to the name-dropping of "Bono" that Jason dislikes. 

[Kromm]

Here we go again. 7 minutes into the episode, and again we see the Chief of Staff making a decision on Global politics in lieu of the President and under his own authority giving a direct order to the Secretary of State, who outranks him and is the actual person who's supposed to be making that specific kind of decision, when the President isn't.

[mbutterfly]

I get the impossibilities and improbabilities, but I love this show. Having a power-hungry Quaker school headmistress shake up the coolest-headed Secretary of State ever was just fun. 

[shapeshifter]

Would Daisy be more forgiving/tolerant of being kept in the dark/lied to if she knew Madam Secretary, POTUS, and SoS were all thoroughly hood winked without a clue? I mean, Daisy was supposed to realize she was spinning half truths, right? Whereas the CIA director didn't even wink at anyone.

Regardless, does this mean Daisy/Patina Miller is leaving the show? Or is Daisy just going to join the other side?

[kwnyc]

I think the reporter wants Daisy to become his "confidential source," which actually IS something that would happen in Washington. And I betcha they'll put Jason in a Catholic school (in DC, they'd probably go to DeMatha)...or does Georgetown have a prep school?

[readster]

 

Also, in the A plot, the head of the CIA had some fucking nerve to orchestrate a coup in Iran right under the nose of the POTUS/guy who gave him a career. I expect a long stay in Gitmo for HIM.

 

  If I've learned about anything from shows like: 24, Alias, Bones, Scandal, Chuck, Homeland, ect. These guys keep in their minds: "This is what you really wanted and I'm going to make it happen." You see their point but at the same time: "Are you crazy?" is the thought that always comes up. To think he went to great lengths to kill the former SoS, help create this coup and then betrayed the State Department and the military and he still thinks: "The ends justify the means." You would think people would learn by now, they make things worse, not better. Gitmo for him? I'm thinking he won't make it out the front door.

[betsyboo]

I loved all of it.

 

Henry: "Quaker values blah blah."  Bess: "HA! world reknowned religious scholar right there!"

 

I esp loved the convo as they walked down the hall after Jason was expelled: "Hmm, I wonder if this is going to make it awkward for your sister to still go to school here.." "Oh, it's going to be TOTALLY awkward...."

 

I was also surprised the principal (who was giving me major Uncle Buck vibes, save for the missing mole) didn't watch the video and appropriately punish the other kid.

 

Debra Monk killed it, as usual.

 

Daisy can go fly a kite. Phoebe seemed to handle her abrupt promotion with no problems. I'm sure I'm naive about things that happen in my workplace, but I try to remind myself there's a reason that person is in charge, and probably knows more about the situation than i do. Daisy for sure should know that the Secretary has much more detail on a situation than she does, and acts accordingly.  (with the usual disclaimer here that of course some higher-ups are evil, CIA guy as example #1.)

[kwnyc]

forgot to mention...the thing that made me go: NO! DON'T DO IT! Was when Bess but a USB stick given to her by a foreign national/non-friendly INTO HER OWN COMPUTER. Geez! I know she trusted him and all that...but maybe someone on HIS end put in some kind of bug/tracker/virus that is now in the Department of State system. 

 

(Also, I watch Person of Interest and that's EXACTLY how Samaritan does its dirty work!)

[Julie23]

What made me hate the bono-father even more was that he had the nerve to high five his son (in from of the headmistress) for getting another kid expelled from school. Nice. Guess we know where the bully got it from. They must contribute a ton of money to the school which was why the headmistress didn't even give Jason a chance to explain. She didn't care. Period. Rich people told her they wanted him out, so he was out. That is how the world runs these days. On money. I think I'd take my daughter out that that school too and tell all my powerful friends not to send there kids there either.  

 

CIA dude is going to be "lost" somewhere never to again see the light of day.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Julie23

[Sandiscot]

 

Regardless, does this mean Daisy/Patina Miller is leaving the show?

 

I hope so, but probably not, unfortunately. 

[HurricaneVal]

Stevie does like to stir the shit, doesn't she?  She was not at all interested in her little brother's actual problems, she just gleefully encouraged bullied him into the solution that was sure to cause him the most problems and difficulties.  She had no dog in this fight, her only angle was that little bro was defending their mother--whom Stevie is irritated with--so she spitefully screws with her brother's life as a substitute for being powerless to screw with her mother's.  I do love the family dynamics on this show, Mom may be Secretary of State, and Dad may be a fighter pilot/war hero/super agent/renowned religious scholar, but the family dynamics are quite universal.

 

I like that the Iranian counterpart was willing to listen to reason, and admit he was wrong when he learned the truth, rather than continuing to act like the lie was real in order to get one over on the US.  Shows that often these political machinations are far more nuanced than the rest of us normal humans can see.

 

Interesting call back that Major Arm Candy neglected to mention the whole drunken marine incident.  Also interesting that the son took that to heart as family duty, and followed in his dad's footsteps.  Also good display of non-verbal family dynamics.

 

I'm interested to see where this goes.

[Guest]

I'm officially lost.  Between all the breaks this season and probably a lack of focus, I have no idea what's going on this season.

[shapeshifter]

forgot to mention...the thing that made me go: NO! DON'T DO IT! Was when Bess but a USB stick given to her by a foreign national/non-friendly INTO HER OWN COMPUTER. Geez! I know she trusted him and all that...but maybe someone on HIS end put in some kind of bug/tracker/virus that is now in the Department of State system.

I momentarily had the same reaction, but then I figured I too would be unable to wait another moment to see what was on it, given all the spy vs. spy intrigue.

Stevie does like to stir the shit, doesn't she? She was not at all interested in her little brother's actual problems, she just gleefully encouraged bullied him into the solution that was sure to cause him the most problems and difficulties. She had no dog in this fight, her only angle was that little bro was defending their mother--whom Stevie is irritated with--so she spitefully screws with her brother's life as a substitute for being powerless to screw with her mother's.

While she was way too bossy, I thought unfriending was a good piece of advice. Or did she tell him to get physical too? Edited March 9, 2015 by shapeshifter

[HurricaneVal]

I think Stevie was really invested making little bro take drastic action, even though obviously "unfollowing" was a far more sensible solution than "unfriending," because she is all about the drama.  Even when little sister (I cannot remember the kid's names, other than Stevie) said that would have bad consequences at school and was cautioning against it, that got Stevie even more excited about little bro taking that big move and making a statement.  I don't believe she told him to get physical, but she was definitely egging him on to being more aggressive with this other boy.  If she'd been in the school hallway when the fight broke out, she'd probably have egged him on even more "You gonna take that?  You gonna let him say that?  What are 'ya gonna do about it?"

Edited March 10, 2015 by HurricaneVal

[Athena5217]

Matt's conversation with Daisy about Liz bugged me. I suspect it was just sloppy writing, but it could have been Matt trying to manipulate Daisy. By leaving out the key fact that Liz asked him to give the Chief of Staff false info because she learned that Matt was spying on her for the Chief, Matt made Daisy think Liz is up to something rather than reacting to being spyed on.

Daisy sounded like a Pollyanna. I'm sure that State Dept spokespeople often don't know about cover ops missions because 1) they are COVERT and 2) the spokespeople aren't put in the awkward position of having to lie if they aren't told. I doubt Daisy's clearance level is as high as many others in State so she shouldn't expect to be told these things.

[Kromm]

I loved all of it.

 

Henry: "Quaker values blah blah."  Bess: "HA! world reknowned religious scholar right there!"

 

I esp loved the convo as they walked down the hall after Jason was expelled: "Hmm, I wonder if this is going to make it awkward for your sister to still go to school here.." "Oh, it's going to be TOTALLY awkward...."

 

I was also surprised the principal (who was giving me major Uncle Buck vibes, save for the missing mole) didn't watch the video and appropriately punish the other kid.

 

Debra Monk killed it, as usual.

 

Daisy can go fly a kite. Phoebe seemed to handle her abrupt promotion with no problems. I'm sure I'm naive about things that happen in my workplace, but I try to remind myself there's a reason that person is in charge, and probably knows more about the situation than i do. Daisy for sure should know that the Secretary has much more detail on a situation than she does, and acts accordingly.  (with the usual disclaimer here that of course some higher-ups are evil, CIA guy as example #1.)

The problem with the whole plotline for me is that whathisname, the speechwriter, gave a very incomplete picture to Daisy.  He may not have known everything going on,  but he DID know that the reason he was asked to do what he was had to do with the Chief of Staff spying on McCord FIRST.  But we heard the little shit explain things to Daisy as if McCord started the whole process, and we heard him hear Daisy's reaction of distrust in McCord based on that.  I wish I still had the episode around to duplicate the exact lines of these two, but it's like speechwriter dude who's name I never remember either has a very selective memory, has an agenda, or is just a weak plot device to cause drama at the expense of the scene (and what he said) even making proper sense.

Come to think of it, he also knew that the CoS had been spying on the last SoS too.  He may not have all of the pieces but he's got enough to draw some conclusions that are very much the opposite of where the conversation with Daisy went.

[sinkwriter]

 

[speechwriter dude] is just a weak plot device to cause drama at the expense of the scene (and what he said) even making proper sense

 

That's how I'm seeing those scenes between him and Daisy. I felt it was forced in order to create the Daisy drama. I can understand her wanting to be principled, I imagine that's tough to do in a political arena, but what he told her seemed like a lame attempt to give her some sort of "credible" reason for not wanting to do her job when in reality he should have said something more like, "Sometimes things aren't what they seem, believe me, I've been in a difficult situation myself and it turned out to be something completely different. Just hang in there."

[Beach Party]

Elizabeth heads to Turkey to mend political relations after the Turkish government...

I wonder if it was a coincidence that a commercial which aired mid-episode was for the Subway Turkey Italiano. 

[Xantar]

The plotline with the CIA director undermining the President's talks with Iran and assassinating the previous Secretary of State is preposterous, of course. But it makes for really good TV, and I'm liking this much better than the minor international incident of the week storylines of episodes past. And although Daisy is being self-righteous, at least she's not stupidly trying to get married to someone while having sex with her co-worker on the side. And Stevie is going to college again instead of stupidly trying to prove that she can make it on her own.

 

If she'd been in the school hallway when the fight broke out, she'd probably have egged him on even more "You gonna take that?  You gonna let him say that?  What are 'ya gonna do about it?"

 

 

I really didn't see it that way. And while unfriending makes a definite statement, it's not THAT horrible or drastic a thing to do on Facebook. The other kid was constantly criticizing Jason's mother. Why should he continue to pretend that they are friends online? It's not like Stevie told Jason to start posting scandalous detail about Bono-Dad.

[sinkwriter]

As well as what was discussed above, I think what bugged me about Daisy and Matt's conversation is how they were talking about such deeply secretive stuff, in full voice, in the middle of a packed restaurant. Hello? Where is their discretion? They could have ordered in a pizza and talked privately in a scene, they could have hung out at one or the other's apartment, but no, the show has to have them talking about government coverup stuff in the middle of a crowd where anyone (especially reporters) could overhear. They're not stupid people so why are they being written that way? Unless this is something that's going to bite them both in the butt somewhere down the line. But I don't like the characters being written like they're fine with blabbing government secret stuff anywhere. They're compromising themselves, their boss, the President, and so much more when they do that. It's amazing they haven't been fired. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by sinkwriter

[CooperTV]

That was very uncomfortable episode to watch, I must say, Elizabeth trying to salvage the relations with Turkey and practically blabbering incoherently at times? That was beyond awkward. And then Javani (?) who was on her side from the beginning read Elizabeth a riot act? It was terrible scene in the sense of how sudden and jarring it was. I was hoping he'd come around, though, and, fortunately, he did. The same thing happened with Liz and her CIA friend, it was awkward and tense and it was obvious how embarrassed and guilty Elizabeth was feeling. And than there was that scene in the principal's office, and it was even more awkward and real than anything they had shown previously in the episode. The Epic Pile of Realistic Awkwardness. It was awesome.

 

I liked how Jason was a typical teenager that wanted for his parents to pay attentions to him through misbehaving and that he had a cunning plan to be expelled from his Snobby Rich Kids school. You go, Jason!

 

Well, I was suspecting the CIA director pretty much from the start, so that was a letdown for me.

 

Daisy being stupid about "need to know" was a bizarre development, and the speech-writer guy (or maybe, Speech-writer Guy, since it's a theme in my post) just misled her for no reason whatsoever. What?.. Like, Daisy, I almost liked you in the beginning with the cheese! Don't go!

[sinkwriter]

I think one of my favorite lines in this episode was Elizabeth's -- when Elizabeth asked how long her friend would hold this over her head, and I forget what her friend said in response, something immeasurable, but after that Elizabeth said, "So... like a year?" (And her friend was all, "Yep.") LOL.

 

I'm so glad the showrunners didn't destroy a terrific friendship between two women. It's rare to see a good and believable one that isn't completely focused on the men in their lives, or who they're dating. 

[Kromm]

As well as what was discussed above, I think what bugged me about Daisy and Matt's conversation is how they were talking about such deeply secretive stuff, in full voice, in the middle of a packed restaurant. Hello? Where is their discretion? They could have ordered in a pizza and talked privately in a scene, they could have hung out at one or the other's apartment, but no, the show has to have them talking about government coverup stuff in the middle of a crowd where anyone (especially reporters) could overhear. They're not stupid people so why are they being written that way? Unless this is something that's going to bite them both in the butt somewhere down the line. But I don't like the characters being written like they're fine with blabbing government secret stuff anywhere. They're compromising themselves, their boss, the President, and so much more when they do that. It's amazing they haven't been fired. 

But it goes beyond character stupidity into scriptwriting stupidity, because we can at least concede that people in the real Department of State might be idiots who stupidly talk about secret stuff in public.  Although the extra dumb part is that Daisy's JOB is working with the press, so she'd theoretically be even more aware of the possibility of being overheard (especially in a bar that really looks like a DC-insider place).

 

But then again, as I said before, we have to conclude that Matt (that's his name?  Really? Ah who cares...) is either a manipulator/schemer or has had a lobotomy to have mysteriously led Daisy to the conclusions she's come to and not mention the other information we KNOW he had about why he was asked to do what he did.

If it's the lobotomy option (not literally) then it's a screenwriter's fetid steaming pile of crap sloppiness, where they write people with different states of knowledge at different times for no good reason.  

[needschocolate]

Jason tells Arm Candy about the comments the bully made and Arm Candy says "He watches cable news?" like that would be unheard of.  Well, it would be unheard of among the adolescent kids I know, but it seems like Arm Candy's 3 kids watch nothing but the news, so why should he be so surprised?  

 

But then again, as I said before, we have to conclude that Matt (that's his name?  Really? Ah who cares...) is either a manipulator/schemer or has had a lobotomy to have mysteriously led Daisy to the conclusions she's come to and not mention the other information we KNOW he had about why he was asked to do what he did.

 

There is a third possibility - the writers have made the season-long "Who killed George?" story line so convoluted that they forgot the other information.  

 

I wasn't too fond of this show in the beginning, but it is growing on me.  But I hope they end the season-long story soon, I am tired of trying to pay attention to it - too many details (I have to be very detail oriented and focused at work, I don't want to be that that way when I watch tv).  

[backformore]

I'm confused. Who does "Arm Candy" refer to?

I can't be the only one who is confused by posters giving characters nicknames in posts about an episode.

[secnarf]

Arm Candy is Henry. The nickname is also in the title of his character thread and I believe it comes from the whole "sexiest spouse" thing in one of the early episodes.

[kwnyc]

His full title is Lt. Col. Professor Arm Candy, USMC (Ret), CSW, LPN, EA.

[CheshireCat]

I'm currently doing a re-watch and last night I wondered: would a security details really let the Secretary of State head into an office without checking who is in there first? When they're at the school, Henry and Jason sit outside, the door to the headmistress's office is closed, the security details is several feet away. Then the door opens and everyone walks in and the security details moves closer. They have no idea who is in there because they're way too far away to peek inside.

Also, no one went inside and the door is closed. Now, maybe they have security at the entrance of the school, but I'm sure the headmistress has scissors in her office. It seems rather irresponsible to let Bess go in there alone and then wait outside with the door closed no less and parents on the inside whose kid was punched by Bess' kid.

And the lack of punishment for the bully still makes me mad and frustrates me. I love this show to pieces but each time I watch it, it feels like they're condoning bullying. Jason shouldn't have punched the kid, violence is never the answer but bullying isn't either and ever since I watched it the first time, I've felt that the school is in the wrong and yet, in order to create a nemesis for Bess they're ignoring the issue. And the headmistress even says the school doesn't condone any form of violence. Bullying is a form of violence. And then they don't even allow Bess/the McCords to get some payback in later episodes. But that's just my personal pet-peeve. ;-)

Edited January 27, 2017 by CheshireCat