Tennis Thread

[sacrebleu]

Quote

And I’d say the men’s tournament has too little parity. For the past several years, only Nadal, Federer, or Djokovic have been winning the Slams. 

Yeah-- I recall reading one sports reporter who said, Theim winning a set at the French makes him the only male player under 30 to win a set in a Grand Slam final.

That's... not great for the future. As much as I love Rafa, I was really hoping for Tsitsipas or Zverev to finally do something at this slam. I'm hoping against hope Bautista Agut can knock out Pella and Novak. 

[Harry24]

I haven't seen the match yet, but I'm so annoyed with Konta.  If you're going to knock out my players (Petra, Sloan) you HAVE to win the title, Jo!!!!

[truthaboutluv]

9 minutes ago, Harry24 said:

I haven't seen the match yet, but I'm so annoyed with Konta.  If you're going to knock out my players (Petra, Sloan) you HAVE to win the title, Jo!!!!

Yeah I'm with you on that. I was particularly bummed about Petra because I would really like to see her win another Grand Slam.

Edited July 9, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Danny Franks]

So after I contrasted Halep and Konta, saying the former seems to suffer from mental fragility in matches, while the latter grows in confidence, they did the opposite today. Fair enough.

I wish Serena Williams had lost. I'm as thoroughly tired of her dominance as I am of the big three men (although Federer gets a pass because he's great to watch).

[ombelico]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I wish Serena Williams had lost. I'm as thoroughly tired of her dominance as I am of the big three men (although Federer gets a pass because he's great to watch).

While I agree that Serena's dominance can sometimes make things boring, I am fully rooting for her to keep winning Slams and thus obliterate Margaret Court's record of Slam wins. Court only has that many Slams in the first place because she's Australian and competed there at a time that hardly anyone traveled all the way Down Under for a Slam. Plus she's a raging homophobe. So I'm definitely Team Serena when it comes to taking down that record.

[TVbitch]

Was totally rooting for Alison Riske. She's been on my radar this grass court season. She's got game and I can deal with her "oi!" shrieking cuz it is not high pitched and piercing. But why "oi" if she is am American?

I think I also like her cuz her look kind of reminds me of Nelly Olson from Little House on the Prairie"! Bummer she lost to Serena, who I just will never warm to. 

[Gurkel]

The Nishikori-Federer match is competitive so far.

Can't say the same for the Djokovic match. Great for Novak, I guess, but not especially entertaining. 

[BlackberryJam]

So we're getting Nadal/Federer fighting to play against Djokovic in the final. That semi is going to be great. Novak...snore.

In other news, Serena on the cover of HB.

https://www.gofugyourself.com/serena-williams-is-golden-on-the-cover-of-harpers-bazaar-07-2019

She's stunning and her essay is insightful. 

[theatremouse]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Williams/Murray mixed doubles yesterday. (Couldn't see today's because I refuse to pay extra for what ESPN used to give me for free).

I really hope they play mixed at the next few majors together. I think doubles is good for Serena because a lot of her recent matches have involved a lot of sloppy errors at net. Getting more match play specifically at net should tighten that up. She can be great at net but she's clearly rusty. And if doubles if the only way we're going to continue to see Andy Murray play, I'm all for him playing as much doubles as possible. The two of them seem to be good for each other when they play doubles together. Both more high-spirited. It seems like mentally, playing together is good for both. So I hope to see more.

I know there's maybe a 2% chance of this happening but I hope Bautista-Agut somehow gets sloppy-Novak and pulls off the upset. It's...not going to happen...but I really want it to. I'm so sick of Novak's whiny-yet-simultaneously-smug schtick. I know it's horrible but a couple of years ago when he had that weird spiral losing streak, I'd hoped he was done.

[CountryGirl]

I guess I'm a hypocrite because while I would love for Bautista-Agut to not only take out Novak but win the whole thing, I'm rooting for Serena to tie Court. 

[Gurkel]

28 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I guess I'm a hypocrite because while I would love for Bautista-Agut to not only take out Novak but win the whole thing, I'm rooting for Serena to tie Court. 

Upsets are always fun. Unless the player you're rooting for gets upset, that is. 

I'm rooting for Serena, also. But if she wants to make it to the Finals and hopes to beat Halep or Svitolina, she's going to have to clean up those forehand errors.  Especially against Halep, who never makes a lot of unforced errors. 

[sacrebleu]

Quote

She's stunning and her essay is insightful. 

I'm rooting for Serena to surpass Court, and she deserves to go down in history as a great champion, but that essay bugged me.

I appreciate that she took responsibility for her role in diminishing what should have been an amazing moment for Osaka, but IMO, she completely mischaracterized the rest of her behavior. Her coach admitted he was signaling her, the violation she received was legit, and for her to frame it as the patriarchy keeping a strong woman silent is completely inaccurate. She deserved the first violation and the second-- the chair umpire did not deserve to be painted as the villain.  She had all the power in that situation- she can shout and insult him and he would lose his job and end his career if he responded. 

And I maintain that she wouldn't have been upset in the first place if Osaka hadn't been outplaying her BEFORE the controversy started. 

For her to frame the situation as a woman being silenced when trying to speak out is bullshit in my book (I'm still a little pissed about it, obviously).

[topanga]

Watching Wimbledon when I can at work. Who's the glammed-up woman doing commentary?

And what a first semi-final. It started out looking competitive, but Halep's game went to another level while Svitolina melted.

ETA: I hate it when analysts talk about getting "free points" from a good serve. A good serve isn't free. It requires hard work, strategy,, and execution. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by topanga

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

I'm rooting for Serena to surpass Court, and she deserves to go down in history as a great champion, but that essay bugged me.

I appreciate that she took responsibility for her role in diminishing what should have been an amazing moment for Osaka, but IMO, she completely mischaracterized the rest of her behavior. Her coach admitted he was signaling her, the violation she received was legit, and for her to frame it as the patriarchy keeping a strong woman silent is completely inaccurate. She deserved the first violation and the second-- the chair umpire did not deserve to be painted as the villain.  She had all the power in that situation- she can shout and insult him and he would lose his job and end his career if he responded. 

I agree. She's sidestepping the fact that it was her behavior (along with her coach's) that started the whole debacle in the first place.

Serena's always been one of those players where I have a huge amount of respect for her talent and accomplishments, but her personality isn't my cup of tea. I don't root against her, but I wouldn't call myself a fan either, if that makes any sense. With that said, I do hope she breaks Court's record. I don't consider Court to be the best of all time when the majority of her wins came at a tournament most players avoided for decades.

Edited July 11, 2019 by BitterApple

[truthaboutluv]

42 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

I'm rooting for Serena to surpass Court, and she deserves to go down in history as a great champion, but that essay bugged me.

I appreciate that she took responsibility for her role in diminishing what should have been an amazing moment for Osaka, but IMO, she completely mischaracterized the rest of her behavior. Her coach admitted he was signaling her, the violation she received was legit, and for her to frame it as the patriarchy keeping a strong woman silent is completely inaccurate. She deserved the first violation and the second-- the chair umpire did not deserve to be painted as the villain.  She had all the power in that situation- she can shout and insult him and he would lose his job and end his career if he responded. 

And I maintain that she wouldn't have been upset in the first place if Osaka hadn't been outplaying her BEFORE the controversy started. 

For her to frame the situation as a woman being silenced when trying to speak out is bullshit in my book (I'm still a little pissed about it, obviously).

Co-sign everything and that's been my struggle with Serena for a long time. Here's the thing, there is a legitimate discussion to be had regarding the disparity of how women are treated in sports versus men. We know this. We see it in the pay gap, the coverage the men get versus the women, etc.

And I'm not just talking about tennis but frankly all sports that both men and women compete in. And as a black woman, trust and believe I know and understand the racial bullshit Serena has dealt with. For example, the manly and tranny comments people have made when it comes to her body and shape. So I do not dismiss the real issues that Serena has likely faced.

The problem though is that many times that these discussions have come about, due to a situation like the U.S. Open last year, the larger message and issue gets muddled because of her own bad behavior that's not acknowledged or owned up to. And so an honest and mature discussion cannot be had because emotions start running wild and some are screaming feminism, racism and others get defensive and say not everything is a race thing and so the whole conversation gets lost. 

Like I always go back to U.S. Open semifinal against Clijsters. I don't think Serena ever truly accepted her fault in that and the way she was wrong. You don't tell a lines person that you'll "shove a fucking ball down their fucking throat", while walking up them gesturing angrily, even tagging on a "cause you don't know me". And then want to claim bias and how she was being stereotyped as an "angry black woman". 

Like I said, I am not dismissing the sexism and racism that exists in the sport but I also believe Serena many times through the years has shown poor sportsmanship, been a sore loser and had a stank attitude and has never copped to it.

Edited July 11, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Ohwell]

Serena's eyebrows look like they could crawl off her face at any time.  It's too bad because her natural ones looked fine.

Also, it's no surprise to me that the apology to Osaka somehow made it all about Serena.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Ohwell

[BitterApple]

Congrats to Serena, congrats to Simona. If both ladies bring their A-game and Simona keeps her head together, this should be one heck of a final.

On a side note, does anyone else wish Wimbledon would do away with the practice of requiring both players to walk off the court together? The winner can't even take a few moments to savor their victory because their opponent is standing impatiently, in a hurry to exit. 

[Gurkel]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Watching Wimbledon when I can at work. Who's the glammed-up woman doing commentary?

I missed her name and don't recognize her. But she said she's played against Serena in the past.

13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Congrats to Serena, congrats to Simona. If both ladies bring their A-game and Simona keeps her head together, this should be one heck of a final.

On a side note, does anyone else wish Wimbledon would do away with the practice of requiring both players to walk off the court together? The winner can't even take a few moments to savor their victory because their opponent is standing impatiently, in a hurry to exit. 

Yes. It should be a good final. Both women are intense. 

I know that Wimbledon does change things. The players used to have to curtsy in front of the chair umpire after the match, but they did away with that. 

But yeah, the winner must want to stay on the court longer to sign balls, wave at fans, etc. And the loser just wants to go to the locker room to take a shower, cry, scream, meditate--anything to out of the spotlight for a few minutes before that dreaded press conference. 

[BlackberryJam]

I am frustrated that Serena's behavior has to be saintly for her point to be made. And isn't that part of her point? She gets angry. She says inappropriate things. And she gets criticized more and punished more harshly than a male player. 

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I am frustrated that Serena's behavior has to be saintly for her point to be made. And isn't that part of her point? She gets angry. She says inappropriate things. And she gets criticized more and punished more harshly than a male player. 

I don't think that's a fair characterization of what's being said. No, she doesn't have to be a saint, but when a situation arises in part to her bad behavior and no accountability is taken for that, it is being dishonest and unfair to simply say, "oh it's because I'm a woman and I'm treated unfairly". 

Because serious question. Is there really definitive proof of Serena's always being punished more harshly than male players? The Clijsters match for example, she racked up two violations throughout the match, all fair calls by the way, the rule says a third violation is a point penalty. She was down match point. So when she got the third violation warning, which was a point penalty, she lost the match. Was that really unfair?

Again considering she threatened to shove a ball down a line person's throat. Let's talk about how abusive this was to this woman. Who by the way, was a tiny little woman who looked to be in her 50's. You don't speak to people that way. I don't care how "passionate" and "upset" one is. And again, I don't remember ever hearing an, "I was wrong. I should not have said that. I thought the call was wrong, I stand by the fact that I think it was wrong but I should not have said that". No, it's "sexism, racism, unfairness". 

Plenty of male players have racked up fines, warning, Fognini got a whole two Grand Slam ban and may be facing some more trouble after this latest incident at Wimbledon. It is simply untrue to make it seem like Serena's punishments have been harsher and more unfair than anyone else's. My point is there is no accountability on her part. Yes, sexism and racism exists but you don't get to be a brat at times, take no accountability for and then when shit hits the fan, any criticism towards her is dismissed with sexism and racism. YMMV

Edited July 11, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[truthaboutluv]

On the topic of the current tennis happening, I'm happy for Simona making her first Wimbledon final but I think Serena will finally get 24. Not that I don't think Simona can beat Serena but her habit of too many loose errors might hurt her against Serena. Should be an interesting match.

Edited July 11, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[BlackberryJam]

I didn't use the word "fair." I said she got more criticism, which she does. Criticism gets piled on the woman, as evidenced here. And punished more harshly than men, which no, I haven't done a full statistical analysis because behavior which is not punished isn't searchable or catalogued and stored.  That just seems to be another hoop she has to jump through to make her point, providing statistical proof which is impossible to obtain. 

I loath Margaret Court for all the previously mentioned reasons and definitely want Serena to pass her. I'm fine with Halep and wouldn't have a problem with her winning though.

[Spunkygal]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

Watching Wimbledon when I can at work. Who's the glammed-up woman doing commentary?

And what a first semi-final. It started out looking competitive, but Halep's game went to another level while Svitolina melted.

ETA: I hate it when analysts talk about getting "free points" from a good serve. A good serve isn't free. It requires hard work, strategy,, and execution. 

Are you referring to Bethanie Mattek-Sands, the young lady in the one shoulder outfit?

[theatremouse]

21 hours ago, Gurkel said:

I'm rooting for Serena, also. But if she wants to make it to the Finals and hopes to beat Halep or Svitolina, she's going to have to clean up those forehand errors.  Especially against Halep, who never makes a lot of unforced errors. 

I don't disagree she needs to clean up the unforced errors. However, with certain players Serena just...has their number. Sharapova is one. Halep's another. Halep is certainly in better form than the last time they played. But if Serena served like she served Tuesday, and returns like she returned today (or frankly, even one or the other), Halep doesn't have a chance. One of Halep's main strengths is not making a ton of errors, so Serena absolutely needs to keep hers down. But if she can manage a good ratio of winners to unforced, Serena is very likely to take it. It wouldn't be any sort of giant upset shock if Halep wins, by no means, but I'm still not really expecting her to.

I realized around the time Serena tied Steffi that I'm extremely emotionally invested in her breaking Court's record. I want Court off the screen when they show the top anybodies (and I think they only bring up her "not in the Open Era" records because Serena is so close to it). Court is a hateful, horrible person and it bothers me to hear her lauded. (It also bothers me the arena is named after her in Aus) She was a good tennis player, but she's a bad human. To me, while Serena absolutely had some horrific meltdowns, I don't think Serena is a bad person. I do draw a line between a bad person (who maybe sometimes does good things) and a generally good person who has done some bad things. I think Serena is the latter. In general, people seem to like her. She's known as someone who is kind to younger players. She obviously has a temper and I'm not excusing that, but it seems like most of the time she's not a jerk. She doesn't generally smack talk people. If goaded to she usually avoids the question. When she has a bad day, she's reallllllllllllly bad. But I think I'd take someone who once every 2-3 years loses her shit to an 11 over someone who is basically always a level 5-6 asshole (Hello Kyrgios and Benoit Paire). Is Serena the best human ever? No. Is she the best female tennis player? Almost certainly. I think she's a better person, a better role model, and a better tennis player than Margaret Court. And nobody else is even close at this point. I think of active players Venus is next behind Serena, but I doubt Venus will even play another 15 slams let alone win them. So it's Serena or waiting probably 20 years at least for someone else to come even close. Which means I want Serena to win this. And the US Open.

[topanga]

50 minutes ago, Spunkygal said:

Are you referring to Bethanie Mattek-Sands, the young lady in the one shoulder outfit?

Yes! Thanks

49 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I realized around the time Serena tied Steffi that I'm extremely emotionally invested in her breaking Court's record. I want Court off the screen when they show the top anybodies (and I think they only bring up her "not in the Open Era" records because Serena is so close to it). Court is a hateful, horrible person and it bothers me to hear her lauded. (It also bothers me the arena is named after her in Aus) She was a good tennis player, but she's a bad human. To me, while Serena absolutely had some horrific meltdowns, I don't think Serena is a bad person. I do draw a line between a bad person (who maybe sometimes does good things) and a generally good person who has done some bad things. I think Serena is the latter.

Thanks for this post.

In no do way do I excuse Serena's bad behavior on the court, but I do think she's judged more harshly in terms of public and media outrage than male players who have similar meltdowns. I lost respect for John McEnroe when he off all people criticized Serena for yellimg at umps who make controversial calls that don't go her way. This is who John McEnroe was throughout his entire career, and he's been iconicized for it. Novak often has meltdowns and yells at umpires, but I rarely hear about it after the day it occurs. 

[Crs97]

And I need Court to be alive when Serena takes the record so she can read all the stories about it, especially ones that point out how much harder it is to get the record now, and know her obit will no longer use “best” or “most” in their description of her tennis career.

No, I’m not petty.  Why do you ask?

[sacrebleu]

Quote

No, I’m not petty.  Why do you ask?

Heh. come sit by me. I felt the same way about Roger/Rafa surpassing Sampras. I never liked him, and was thrilled when his record fell.

I was sorry Steffi couldn't knock Court down a peg, and will be happy when Serena does it.

[Gurkel]

10 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

I was sorry Steffi couldn't knock Court down a peg

I'm trying to think of anything bad that was said about her during her career. I've got nothing. 

Except that she probably wouldn't have won as many Grand Slams as she did if Monica Seles hadn't gotten stabbed. Which wasn't Steffi's fault, of course. 

[BlackberryJam]

32 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

Heh. come sit by me. I felt the same way about Roger/Rafa surpassing Sampras. I never liked him, and was thrilled when his record fell.

I was sorry Steffi couldn't knock Court down a peg, and will be happy when Serena does it.

Preach.

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I felt the same way about Roger/Rafa surpassing Sampras. I never liked him, and was thrilled when his record fell.

Roger, Rafa and Djokovic have all now surpassed him. And yes, I was never a Sampras fan either so I did think it was funny how quickly it took for Roger to dismantle his record after he retired. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Danny Franks]

Serena can beat Court's record, but I hope she doesn't do it on Saturday. I'm all in on Halep winning.

Ultimately, taking these records is an empty gesture, when the professionalism of the game in the modern era means player fitness and the handling of injuries is worlds apart from what it used to be.

[TVbitch]

So far the quarters and semis have been kind of a snooze. I do hope we at least get a good Roger/Rafa match tomorrow. And I do hope the finals will be competitive. 

On Serena, for me, she is just not my most likeable person. She is one hell of a tennis player and champion. She has legitimate complaints about female players. AND she has gotten very ugly on the court (as have others). None of that is mutually exclusive, and it's not even my main beef with her.

What bugs me the most is the more subtle stuff she does. I've seen multiple times where if she's being challenged in a set, her ankle starts bothering her and she stumbles around a bit, but then if she starts dominating again, that goes right away. She changes her racquet in the middle of the OTHER player's critical service game. She gets into drama with the chair, which affects the other player's momentum. Often when she loses a point, she gives this expression like "Can you believe that?! How absurd that I should possibly lose that point!" Which to me, is insulting to the other player. I know, I know, lots of other players do similar stuff, but I don't like them either! 

I do appreciate the very civil discourse in this thread! :) 

[truthaboutluv]

So who's going to be bold and make the prediction for who will come out on top in the "epic" Rafa and Federer semifinal, lol? I'm only going to say that I actually don't think it'll be as competitive as everyone's expecting.

[dcalley]

Fognini was fined $3,000. Whoop de doo. 🙄

On 7/10/2019 at 2:38 PM, theatremouse said:

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Williams/Murray mixed doubles yesterday. (Couldn't see today's because I refuse to pay extra for what ESPN used to give me for free). 

A potentially helpful tip for the future: I'm pretty sure the live Spanish feed (ESPN3) did cut to their match eventually. It's certainly not something you can count on, but it's always worth a shot.

[TVbitch]

52 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

So who's going to be bold and make the prediction for who will come out on top in the "epic" Rafa and Federer semifinal, lol? I'm only going to say that I actually don't think it'll be as competitive as everyone's expecting.

I think Rafa has the edge over Fed on all surfaces at this point, and has for a while. 

[theatremouse]

I'd normally say I think Fed still has the edge on grass over Rafa in general, but based on how both have played the past week, it's hard to not think it leans Rafa's way. Although really with the two of them, unless they're on clay it's pretty much never an upset either way? I'd personally rather see Roger win, but that's not based on anything empirical. I just like him better in general.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

 I'm only going to say that I actually don't think it'll be as competitive as everyone's expecting.

I don't think it will either. I predict Rafa winning. 

[Harry24]

I think Rafa will win too.   I think he's playing unbelievably well, there doesn't seem to be any physical issue this year, plus the slow, high-bouncing court helps him, particularly as it seems to be neutralizing serves.

[BlackberryJam]

I see Federer in four.

[Sew Sumi]

#teamRafa

[BlackberryJam]

9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

#teamRafa

I'm team Rafa, I just think Roger is going to knuckle down.

[Gurkel]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

I'm team Rafa, I just think Roger is going to knuckle down.

Team Roger. I'm rooting for the over 35-ers to win it all. 

[Spunkygal]

Roger will win because I’m not there. I specifically got tix to the men’s final last year because I knew that he would be there.  But no, he had the nerve to lose in the quarters and I was stuck with Djoker and Anderson. As I think I’ve said before, Centre Court just didn’t have the atmosphere and buzz without Fed or Rafa. But if Roger doesn’t win today, I am #teamanyonebutdjoker. RBA is giving Djoker a good match. So many great volleys to enjoy!

[BlackberryJam]

12 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

Team Roger. I'm rooting for the over 35-ers to win it all. 

Truthfully, anyone but Novak.

[Mrs. P.]

36 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Truthfully, anyone but Novak.

Amen.

[truthaboutluv]

Well Roberto tried and put up a decent fight and had some really impressive moments in the first two sets. But once he let those two break points slip away in the third set, to get the break right back, you knew it was all over.

And so Djokovic is in the Finals and no one cares. Well that's not true, I'm sure his supporters do. It's just that Novak's draw has been so lackluster, obviously through no fault of his but damn it's just so "whatever" about his being in the Finals. 

[BlackberryJam]

Roger takes the first in a tie break. ...I knew he would knuckle down, it’s just a matter of keeping it up.

[truthaboutluv]

Right now Federer is serving significantly better than Rafa which is making all the difference. He's winning a lot of cheap points on his serve and is allowing him to set up the points very well.

Until that last game, Rafa's barely been able to make a dent in Federer's serve while he's having to work a lot harder to hold onto his. Can't see him pulling off a win if that continues.

Lucky for me the past years have made me pretty relaxed about Rafa's chances at Wimbledon. I hope for the best but expect the worst. And frankly this was a win for me once he didn't lose to Kyrgios as some were predicting. 

eta: Okay sure, right after I write this he manages to break Federer, lol

Edited July 12, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[BlackberryJam]

And broke twice to take the second set. It’s all a matter of who is stringing points together at the right time. They are both paying well.

[mojoween]

Can this just be the final?