The Winds Of Winter: Book 6 Will Arrive...Someday

[benteen]

I recall his editor also saying it would take a very short time to edit the book.  I think she's been "editing" it as it's being written.

[Crossbow]

I hope so. I just read all the chapters he's released so far, and one of them has several errors.

[Avaleigh]

I haven't read all of the sample chapters yet.

Which one has the errors you speak of, Crossbow Somehow I'm not surprised.

[Crossbow]

Sansa's chapter, I think.

[Which Tyler]

The Spanish editor says 2016.

 

The independent themselves still think that a book release ahead of S6 is viable

[Avaleigh]

Haha, I had no idea that he'd once promised to have ASOIAF finished by 1998. Lol, what? 

 

Every time I see this thread get bumped I feel like it could mean a release date but also know that I'd probably already have read about one elsewhere so foolish me for hoping. 

[Which Tyler]

Muah ha ha haaàah

[Alayne Stone]

I think George's most recent take on it himself has been "before the releasing of GOT season 6." He mentioned trying to really hamper down for it. I imagine he's trying to beat out the show on some of the major revelations that need to be resolved in both book 6 and season 6, namely Jon Snow's fate.

 

So I'm hoping and praying for a late winter/early spring release. Late winter would be appropriate, given the title don't you think? :D

[Lady S.]

I think George's most recent take on it himself has been "before the releasing of GOT season 6." He mentioned trying to really hamper down for it. I imagine he's trying to beat out the show on some of the major revelations that need to be resolved in both book 6 and season 6, namely Jon Snow's fate.

 

By Jon Snow's fate, do you mean the details of resurrection? Because GRRM has never really tried to make people think Jon is gone for good. 

[Which Tyler]

The Spanish editor says 2016.

The independent themselves still think that a book release ahead of S6 is viable

Polish translator agrees: http://www.latinpost.com/articles/88165/20151020/wind-winter-release-update-george-r-martin-complete-writing-polish.htm

This one also says

"Winds of Winter" is rumored to be coming out early next year while "Games of Thrones" should be premiering around April.

Read more at http://www.newseveryday.com/articles/28808/20151020/winds-of-winter-update-george-r-r-martin-releases-another-book-but-not-the-one-fans-want.htm#wGxzUoTBJ1mZr289.99

http://www.newseveryday.com/articles/28808/20151020/winds-of-winter-update-george-r-r-martin-releases-another-book-but-not-the-one-fans-want.htm

Various others as well.

At this stage, I think we can deduce that he's submitted his copy (or is just about to), and it's going through editting, which with GRRM should take an hour or two.

Release for this one will be co-ordinated with the show, probably at a key time in the build up so that both can benefit from the hype of the other; I'd plump for 3-4 weeks before the first episode.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Which Tyler

[WearyTraveler]

Well, that would be great. Hopefully it happens.

 

He caught up with next season, but can he keep ahead of HBO?

[Triskan]

If we can get the book before S6, yeah, I think a month in advance would be the perfect timing... which would mean a late February (my birthday !), early March... that would be gold !

 

But I dont get my hopes up. I'm still betting on an August 2016 release. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Triskan

[ElizaD]

This is the most optimistic I've ever felt about TWOW. Spring 2016 looks like a real possibility. But since that would only be one year faster than ADWD, the show would still return to spoiling the books in 2017/season 7.

[nksarmi]

Actually, season 7 would probably still be book 6 story so major spoilage likely won't happen until season 8.  And at that point, it just might not matter. They will probably only hit the high notes from book 7 so reading GRRM's ending will probably still be worth it.

[Avaleigh]

I hadn't considered that book six could be two seasons worth of material.

[Alayne Stone]

By Jon Snow's fate, do you mean the details of resurrection? Because GRRM has never really tried to make people think Jon is gone for good. 

That is precisely what I meant.

 

Though I'm fairly certain that the details of his resurrection will still vary greatly between the show and the books.

 

I am feeling pretty confident we'll get book 6 before season 6, but there's no way we'll get A Dream of Spring before the end of the TV show series. But that doesn't even bother me too much because aside from maybe who is involved in the final battle against The Others, and who may occupy the major seats of Westeros (The Iron Throne, if it continues to exist after the fact, and the Seven Kingdoms themselves) ... I don't think the show's end and the books end will be too similar. And we can already speculate as to what that final battle will look like. It'll involved The Others and their thralls, it'll involve Dragons, and it'll likely involve the various Fire and Ice elements of the series, i.e. Daenerys, Jon and Bran. And Tyrion. Somehow.  I haven't the foggiest idea who will survive it all in the end though.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Alayne Stone

[Holmbo]

If we get confirmation of the sixth book release it'll feel unreal to me. I've been waiting for this book the whole time I've been part of this fandom. It's like waiting for book six is a permanent thing.

I'm not sure what sort of anticipation to have of it though. Like how many resolutions or questions asked will we get. Or will it just be new possibilities and set ups introduced?

[nksarmi]

Well unless GRRM has decided to go for eight books (please no - just no) - I would say it will be a steamroll of moving characters around and death.  He has said as much when he was quoted about moving people back together and it being easier to kill off characters that way.  I hope he is done introducing new characters for me not to care about and world building.  I don't mind mythology building but his world is big enough shrink it down now.  I think book six will cover these points at least:

 

I imagine Dany will have to become a warrior queen at the height of her power over the course of book six - nothing short of that will be interesting at all for her return to Westerous.

 

Something must come of the Aegon/Dorne plot, but I have no idea what.

 

I kind of hope all the right Ironborn die and Yara becomes queen - beyond that, I don't care.  But I guess something will come of that stupid horn.  I hope the dragons burn Victorian alive.

 

Cersei will go mad and KL will go into chaos.

 

Sansa plot will hopefully come to something and maybe she will end up in the North for some reason (I kind of hate her book story).

 

Someone (Davos maybe?) will find Rickon and the North will unite around him.

 

Jon will be resurrected and all secrets will be revealed and he will begin to prepare for the ultimate battle against the Others.

 

The books will likely bookend starting with Stannis battle at Winterfell and losing and ending with Jon/Rickon defeating and killing the Boltons.

 

Sparrows will spread havoc and Jamie won't be able to help Cersei calm it down.

 

The Tyrells will either take over KL or leave it and later be the first (or second depending on Dorne) to join Dany's cause.

 

Sam will learn stuff at Oldtown.

[Holmbo]

I don't think it's so much that he decided as he's just unable to tie up his stories. I might be pessimistic though. I'll definitely buy the book when (if?) it comes out and read it with great attention. Maybe we could do a first-read book club where we comment on each chapter. Everyone reads at the same speed right? ;)

Edited October 22, 2015 by Holmbo

[John Potts]

Just so long as it isn't an 800 page stall with characters stuck endlessly spinning their wheels (err... kicking their hooves?) without actually achieving anything (see Arya, Sansa, Danny and Brienne's plotlines in the last couple of books) I'll probably still read it (though I'll borrow it from the library, not buy it).

[mac123x]

I'm still anticipating (not in a good way) 3-4 chapters detailing Marywn's travelogue on his way to Slaver's Bay. To keep it from being repetitive of Quentin's and Tyrion's journeys, he'll be stuck in Lys instead of Volantis.

[GreyBunny]

I think eventually:

 

1) Cersei will attempt to burn down King's Landing with wildifire (Chekov's hidden wildfire pots have to make an appearance).  Perhaps Jaime will try to stop her.

2) Casterly Rock is going to be sealed and flooded like Castamere.  By whom - maybe Tyrion.

3) That wall is coming down.

 

But none of that in the next book because Dany needs to find herself.  Or something.

[Brn2bwild]

I think eventually:

 

1) Cersei will attempt to burn down King's Landing with wildifire (Chekov's hidden wildfire pots have to make an appearance).  Perhaps Jaime will try to stop her.

2) Casterly Rock is going to be sealed and flooded like Castamere.  By whom - maybe Tyrion.

3) That wall is coming down.

 

But none of that in the next book because Dany needs to find herself.  Or something.

 

I could see the corpses in Castamere becoming wights once winter comes... sealing them into that underground mine probably preserved them well.

[Lady S.]

GRRM confirmed book 6 won't be out before s6 of the show.

But I won't make excuses. There are no excuses. No one else is to blame. Not my editors and publishers, not HBO, not David & Dan. It's on me. I tried, and I am still trying. I worked on the book a couple of days ago, revising a Theon chapter and adding some new material, and I will writing on it again tomorrow. But no, I can't tell you when it will be done, or when it will be published. Best guess, based on our previous conversations, is that Bantam (and presumably my British publisher as well) can have the hardcover out within three months of delivery, if their schedules permit. But when delivery will be, I can't say. I am not going to set another deadline for myself to trip over. The deadlines just stress me out.

I am going back to my stance from last March, before all this. It will be done when it's done. And it will be as good as I can possibly make it.

 

Having said all that, I know what the next question will be, because hundreds of you have already asked it of me. Will the show 'spoil' the novels?

 

Maybe. Yes and no. Look, I never thought the series could possibly catch up with the books, but it has. The show moved faster than I anticipated and I moved more slowly. There were other factors too, but that was the main one. Given where we are, inevitably, there will be certain plot twists and reveals in season six of GAME OF THRONES that have not yet happened in the books. For years my readers have been ahead of the viewers. This year, for some things, the reverse will be true. How you want to handle that... hey, that's up to you. Look, I read Andy Weir's novel THE MARTIAN before I saw the movie. But I saw the BBC production of JONATHAN STRANGE AND MR NORRELL before I finally got around to reading Susanna Clarke's novel. In both cases, I loved the book and I loved the adaptation. It does not need to be one or the other. You might prefer one over the other, but you can still enjoy the hell out of both.

 

Of course, there's an aspect to our situation that did not apply to either the Weir or Clarke cases. Those novels were finished before they were optioned, adapted, and filmed. The case of GAME OF THRONES and A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE is perhaps unique. I can't think of any other instance where the movie or TV show came out as the source material was still being written. So when you ask me, "will the show spoil the books," all I can do is say, "yes and no," and mumble once again about the butterfly effect. Those pretty little butterflies have grown into mighty dragons. Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so.

Personally, I can't find it in me to be mad at the guy, he seems to feel really bad about it. And I wasn't really expecting him to finish in time anyway.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Lady S.

[Haleth]

Ugh.  Disappointing, but not surprising.

[ElizaD]

A couple of years ago I was a pessimist on TWOP predicting 2016/2017, but the set spoilers and fan chatter had actually gotten me to hope that GRRM was working hard and TWOW would be like ADWD but released before rather than after a season of GOT. Now that TWOW will end up taking at least five years, never getting to read the true ending of the story feels sadly likely.

[sunflower]

I never really believed we get Winds before season 6, but hearing the backstory is depressing.  I think I'd rather be ignorant of what GRRM is really thinking.  Before his post, I thought we might get Winds by end of 2016 earliest.  Maybe still?  It is sort of disturbing to know he finished the first 3 books of five 15 years ago in a shorter time span than the last 2 books, which, generally, aren't as beloved.   I was a show watcher first, but read all the books between seasons 3 and 4, was that a mistake?  Because I now consider myself a disappointed book reader.  Sigh.  

Edited January 2, 2016 by sunflower

[glowbug]

I didn't think he would get it out in time but I'm also disappointed. I was thinking last night how much I'm looking forward to the new season but also how sad I was that wouldn't get to read the book first. I'm glad GRRM confirmed it rather than let us have hope and wonder.

I know he feels bad but I still think (and I know I'm in the minority in this) that authors do owe it to their readers to finish a series they start and in a reasonable timeframe. That's not to say things can't come up but in Martin's case, unless there's something he hasn't revealed, it appears writing the book has simply become a chore and other things (including writing other books) are more interesting and he doesn't have the discipline to make himself finish it.

I hope he is able to finish the series but I'm becoming increasingly less hopeful. I just hope that if he doesn't finish that he has some way of revealing to his readers what the planned storyline was since he's said he doesnt want another author completing his work.

Edited January 2, 2016 by glowbug

[John Potts]

I thought he might finish Book 6 before Season 6, but I was never holding my breath. Maybe it'll come out about the same time as the S6 DVDs (again, not holding my breath). OTOH, kudos to GRRM for coming out & saying, "Yeah, it's on me - don't blame anyone else!" 

[Cheshrkat]

 

Personally, I can't find it in me to be mad at the guy, he seems to feel really bad about it. And I wasn't really expecting him to finish in time anyway.

 

I'm certainly not mad at him either - but more and more, as much as I may be disappointed with some of the adaptation choices that D&D are making, I am grateful that at least I will get some sort of ending to the story because I have no faith that GRRM will be able to deliver one, and I hate unfinished stories.  I still think the bare bones of the ending will be the same as contemplated by the books, and that's good enough for me.

[benteen]

I'm not surprised and won't be surprised if we hear the same exact thing before the start of Season 7.  Nothing can get him to move faster and it seems increasingly clear to me that he's lost the direction to finishing the story a long time ago but won't admit it.  I think also too he doesn't have the drive or interest in writing these books anymore and would like to concentrate on all the new benefits his celebrity author status has brought him.  Understandable but disappointing.

Edited January 2, 2016 by benteen

[Brn2bwild]

I think it's tough to tie up all the loose ends as a story advances to its conclusion, and ASOIAF has a hell of a lot of loose ends.  At the same time, as a writer, I know that if you don't write consistently, you lose momentum and flow so quickly.  I get why Martin would need to maintain his inspiration by doing other projects, but at some point he should just buckle down and write, even in hotel rooms, even if it's not his "usual" way of doing things.  Sometimes doing it a different way can be surprisingly energizing.

 

That said, I'm just glad he gave us an update on what's happening with Book 6, and will eagerly read it even if it comes out in 2017.  I was getting tired of those articles that claimed the book was coming out "soon," but based it on rehashed speculation from previous articles.

[Lady S.]

I'm certainly not mad at him either - but more and more, as much as I may be disappointed with some of the adaptation choices that D&D are making, I am grateful that at least I will get some sort of ending to the story because I have no faith that GRRM will be able to deliver one, and I hate unfinished stories.  I still think the bare bones of the ending will be the same as contemplated by the books, and that's good enough for me.

IA, I think GRRM will finish the books at some point, but I doubt I'll still care by that point. I'm into this series now but not for the rest of my life.

I just hope he doesn't sit out the rest of the show trying to finish Winds. There's not really much point now, and by going back to writing an ep for s7 and s8 he could at least be involved in the ending fans will know first.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Lady S.

[WearyTraveler]

Disappointing but not unexpected.   I'm not mad at him either, at least he's taking responsibility and letting us know in advance.  I understand that writing is not a mechanized process and that as any creative activity, it's different for every creator.  He needs to feel inspired to write and he clearly doesn't anymore, at least when it comes to this series.  But I also think he lacks discipline and perhaps should try some different approaches to see if something else works.  He doesn`t want anyone else writing it or co-writing it, but he doesn't seem to be able to do it on his own anymore, perhaps a bit of flexibility is called for in this situation.

 

I'm glad we're getting an ending with the TV show because I also hate unfinished stories, but I think he will eventually get the books out too and when he does, I'll buy them because I always prefer the books.  There's more detail, and the world is bigger and there are more characters that are not featured on the show that I'd get to know about. I'm thinking, for example, that the Dorne storyline s bound to be a hundred times better in the books than it will ever be on the show.

 

That said, I'm sure the main plot points have been planned for a while and will be the same in both.  So, the show will at least provide that closure and I'm ok with that.

[nodorothyparker]

I'm not surprised and I'm well past the point of feeling any real disappointment.  I've long since adjusted my expectations that any ending we get for the series as a whole will likely come from the show unless George decides to face the hard truth that he may need someone to step in and help him like in a Brandon Sanderson situation.  I love the books and the show too for all its faults, but if he doesn't put out a final book for another 10 years (which is certainly not outside the realm of possibility), long after the show is done and faded from popular consciousness, he can't really be surprised if much of the readership has moved on and doesn't rush right out to snap it up.

 

I've followed other authors who took interminably long breaks between works and while I did eventually enjoy many of their later efforts, I won't lie that much of the magic was gone and I never felt that sense of urgency about them again.

[Triskan]

I like the idea of a release of the first dozen viable chapters he has written (some kind of "book 6 - part 1 of 3"), but I understand he should first finish the complete book to know if those chapters truly need no revision. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Triskan

[Pete Martell]

I can understand why people are disappointed. Personally, I found the show to be so shockingly poor and downright amateurish last season that I'm probably just going to skip the last two seasons and read the books when they come out...in 3016.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Pete Martell

[Avaleigh]

Yeah, I'm definitely not surprised. I'm fine with the show resolving things. I actually believe that we'll get Winds eventually. It's ADoS that I'm fairly convinced is never going to see the light of day. 

 

I'm not surprised and won't be surprised if we hear the same exact thing before the start of Season 7.  Nothing can get him to move faster and it seems increasingly clear to me that he's lost the direction to finishing the story a long time ago but won't admit it.  I think also too he doesn't have the drive or interest in writing these books anymore and would like to concentrate on all the new benefits his celebrity author status has brought him.  Understandable but disappointing.

I feel like this is key. 

 

I think it's tough to tie up all the loose ends as a story advances to its conclusion, and ASOIAF has a hell of a lot of loose ends. At the same time, as a writer, I know that if you don't write consistently, you lose momentum and flow so quickly.  I get why Martin would need to maintain his inspiration by doing other projects, but at some point he should just buckle down and write, even in hotel rooms, even if it's not his "usual" way of doing things.  Sometimes doing it a different way can be surprisingly energizing.

 

That said, I'm just glad he gave us an update on what's happening with Book 6, and will eagerly read it even if it comes out in 2017.  I was getting tired of those articles that claimed the book was coming out "soon," but based it on rehashed speculation from previous articles.

I appreciate getting the update too although the cynic in me thinks that he probably did that more for his own benefit than anybody else's since he's probably tired of people asking if the book will be released before the next season. I like though that at least he's owning up to the fact that it isn't anybody else's fault. 

 

There's also a clear lack of discipline at this point in addition to the inability to say no. Fair enough that he knows what works for him when it comes to writing but at some point he has to realize that some part of his approach isn't working or should be altered if he wants to be able to finish another book before the series is over. 

 

It's still amazing to me that he's shocked that the show managed to catch up with him after seeing how they blew through the first two books at ten episodes a piece.

 

It's funny to me that we're at the part where the showrunners want to stretch things out because I feel like they're mostly doing it with the wrong parts of the books. It's mainly events from the first three that could/should have been included if they wanted enough material for 9 seasons. 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Avaleigh

[vibeology]

I can't say I'm surprised but I am disappointed. I was really hoping we'd see the book soon based on some of the rumours online about chapters being sent to the publisher and stuff. Still, not even a little surprised. Like many of you, I do think George is done with this story and getting the last act out is a chore for him. He had this idea 25 or so years ago now and he's known roughly how the story will end for a very long time. I can see why its not that exciting to write it when its old news to him. He's been playing around in this world for a very long time and I get that he wants to do new things but that really sucks for the people who've invested time and money into his series. I also am one of those people who think you have some responsibility to your fans to finish what you start. If he doesn't, I won't freak out, but I want an ending, even if it seems less and less likely one is coming. I'll probably watch the show to see how things end, but after last season, I'm not in love it with anymore either.

[nodorothyparker]

I also am one of those people who think you have some responsibility to your fans to finish what you start.

 

If it wasn't an ongoing series with several rather large unresolved cliffhangers, I think it would be a very different conversation.  By dragging it out with no end it sight, it's much like it would have been if J.K. Rowling had never advanced her saga beyond Dumbledore falling from that tower.  Sure, the entire series had spent half a dozen books setting up toward an inevitable showdown between good and evil, Harry and Voldemort, but she decided instead to pursue a bunch of other projects and just never got around to telling you how it all turned out.  People who had invested their cash and their time in the series would have been furious and rightfully so.  I'm not even all that invested in who ends up on the Iron Throne or if there even is one after all the dust settles and I get why people are frustrated.

 

That's why it makes no sense to me at this point for George to insist that he's not going to let anyone else help him or finish the story if he can't for whatever reason.  HBO is already going to very publicly end the story before he can.  It's happening.  He set that in motion when he signed the original contracts for the TV show.  Sure, he can decide to change course and go an entirely different direction if he wants.  But if it doesn't happen for another 10 years or more or never, HBO's ending is what a lot of people are going to remember.

Edited January 4, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Hanahope]

Gotta admit, finding this out. along with his apparent complete lack of motivation to write this and instead do a bunch of other things, is going to make me a whole lot less interested in buying the book.  Maybe I will eventually, when the price comes down, or maybe i'll just borrow it from my library.  I certainly don't have the motivation to spend money on a story that may never end.  I'll watch the show and be satisfied enough with that.  You can be sure, I'll probably never buy another George Martin book, at least not until this series is completed.

[benteen]

I think if the book has become a chore for him to write, then he should bring in another writer to help him out.  I hate to say this but I don't believe he's interested in writing this series anymore.  He might be convincing himself otherwise.

[Constantinople]

The Jets lost yesterday and failed to make the playoffs. That should free up some time.

[WearyTraveler]

The Jets lost yesterday and failed to make the playoffs. That should free up some time.

 

...but it might also impact motivation :(

[Eyes High]

I suppose it's a good thing that we're finding out about this detailed plan to ensure pre-Season 6 publication of TWOW now, as opposed to before the fact, so that the disappointment of realizing that the previously-secret plan had failed is less crushing.

[GreyBunny]

I didn't expect to see a new book before 2017, but I have to admit I was hoping I'd be pleasantly surprised.  Not this time.  

 

I think he's bored with all of the characters except the Targaryens. I'd bet money he'd rather ditch the main series books altogether and just keep writing novellas about the historical Targs.

 

“I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.” - GRRM

 

Thank all the gods JK Rowling is an architect - she had an outline mapped out for each of her novels to help keep her writing schedule disciplined.  GRRM needs to stop gardening and get on with resolving plots, if he's going to get on with it at all

[Holmbo]

I love architect writers. I wish that was a genre one could search for when looking for series to read.

[ElizaD]

As far as the J,K. Rowling analogy, for me the equivalent would be if, after Book 3 or 4, she started introducing new Houses into Hogwarts or started telling major chunks of the story from the perspective of the French school (Beauxbatons?) or the other one introduced in Book 4.  And then also started writing chapters about Dudley's muggle school and how the war in the wizarding world was impacting the non-magic world.  And then devoted equal time or greater time to these new schools and how they impacted the Harry/Voldemort plot instead of focusing on Harry, Ron and Hermione.

 

If Rowling had wanted to include the impact on the Muggle world, it could have been a little like Arya in the Riverlands/Tyrion and Quentyn in Essos, but focusing on the trio was the best choice for the story; the world still feels well-developed and interesting enough that I can speculate about stuff like Beauxbatons and the Muggle reaction even after getting the official ending.

 

Over the decade+ of waiting for AFFC/ADWD/TWOW, I've ended up appreciating the professionalism of writers like Rowling and Robert Jordan of The Wheel of Time a lot more. Now that ASOIAF has made me more of a pessimist I can't believe the wait for Rowling's fifth ever felt long, and though Jordan got lost in details he kept on publishing and advancing the key plots (however slowly) until he got back on track with his last book and then, after finding out he was dying, tried to make sure that fans would get as much of his ending as possible.

 

I think he's bored with all of the characters except the Targaryens. I'd bet money he'd rather ditch the main series books altogether and just keep writing novellas about the historical Targs.

 

I get that feeling too, which is a shame since I find the Targaryens one of the least interesting major houses (only the historical Tullys sound more boring, but at least they don't annoy me). In the worldbook, the others have that nice mix of low-magic grittiness and over-the-top heroics/legends, but the Targs are more standard fantasy than anything else in ASOIAF - super special, super pale magical incestuous aristocrats with dragons. While I like cliches more than many ASOIAF fans (I want happy endings rather than a wasteland ruled by the Others), stories about Targs often give me the feeling that GRRM has forgotten the stuff about deconstructing tropes and is actually serious about the Targs' speshulness, and having cool awesomeness as the birthright of a specific bloodline is one trope I do dislike. I'd much rather watch a Robert's Rebellion prequel than the Dance of the Dragons.

[Maximum Taco]

Season five made me wonder how much in detail GRRM actually has his ending planned out and in that case how much he has shared with the show runners. The way they included Dorne or the north plot made it seem like they felt it important to have it in there but they had no idea why.

I suppose GRRM does have the general ending about what's going to happen with the wall and who's gonna end up on throne, what will happen to the main five characters. But I doubt he has decided how everything he has introduced is supposed to pay off. Like what every iron born or northern lord is going to be up to. He introduces so much new players and concepts all the time. Figuring out how to include all his different ideas into the end game is probably what's taking so long.

 

I actually think he has the ending very planned out, and that's the big problem.

 

I could be wrong, but the way Martin writes it seems like he plots out the HUGE events (Ned's Death, Red Wedding, Battle of Meereen etc) and decides how he wants the characters positioned, and then he tries to write them there with almost no planning whatsoever.

 

When things aren't fitting and the characters aren't getting to where they need to be to fill out these scenarios, he doesn't adjust the event he has planned, instead he goes backward and rewrites the character arc trying to ram it into continuity.

 

This is why Dance of Dragons took so long with the fabled "Meereenese Knot". He needed everyone to arrive in Meereen at a specific time in order to kick off the battle how he wanted and it just wasn't working, but instead of just changing the Battle, he instead decided to fiddle with the previous chapters written to ram the characters where they needed to be for his Battle to take place.

 

This is also the problem with following so many characters, we know where literally hundreds of characters are if we choose to look into it. They can't just appear somewhere else as needed, we need to know how and why they got there or else the story won't make sense.

 

To draw back into the Harry Potter comparison: JK Rowling doesn't need any justification of why or how minor characters are where they are, the only ones we really know the locations of most of the time are Harry, Ron and Hermione. If she needs Dumbledore, or Neville Longbottom, or Sirius Black in the scene she can just have them arrive in the scene, and have them explain what they were doing retroactively. Also they are magicians who can teleport, so that also clears up any issues of time in getting to different locations.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[benteen]

I read a comment from GRRM once where he said that if he knows where the story is going, he becomes bored with it (I'm paraphrasing but that's the gist of it).  To me, that is a recipe for chaos.  I understand not wanting things to become predictable but sometimes the story that you're writing just leads to an inevitable outcome or conclusion.

Edited January 6, 2016 by benteen