S04.E13: Darkness On The Edge Of Town

[jhlipton]

Charming's presence was definitely missed for 95% of the episode :(. Snow was kinda awesome at the end with that threat.

 

You mean other than the fact that it makes No Damn Sense?

[KingOfHearts]

I'm over-analyzing here, but how does Snow plan on ripping Ursula and Cruella's hearts out? The show has established only magical people can do that.

[Curio]

I'm over-analyzing here, but how does Snow plan on ripping Ursula and Cruella's hearts out? The show has established only magical people can do that.

 

There are...you know...other non-magical ways to rip a heart out. Snow's threat is a bit more gruesome and scary when you think about how a non-magical person would have to do that. 

[FabulousTater]

I'm over-analyzing here, but how does Snow plan on ripping Ursula and Cruella's hearts out? 

With a spoon. Because it will hurt more.

[Mari]

With a spoon. Because it will hurt more.

Thank you.  It passed through my mind, but not slowly enough that I could catch the whole thing.  I'm so glad someone else's brain did that.  (Maybe it's the TaterCult brainwashing?)

[FabulousTater]

Thank you.  It passed through my mind, but not slowly enough that I could catch the whole thing.  I'm so glad someone else's brain did that.  (Maybe it's the TaterCult brainwashing?)

Heehee, could be...If so, The Tater Cult thanks you for your patronage and awards you 500 Tater Cult points for catching the reference.  ;-)

[OnceUponAJen]

There are...you know...other non-magical ways to rip a heart out. Snow's threat is a bit more gruesome and scary when you think about how a non-magical person would have to do that.

I want to know when exactly Snow became the head of the Storybrooke mafia. With Charming as her "muscle", no less.

[Camera One]

So, Cruella and Ursula can do magic now.  Cruella could use her "influence" on rabid wolves which could tear Snow and Charming to pieces.  And could Ursula turn all Octopus now?  If these two wanted to wreak some damage, they pretty much have free rein now that they're in town with zero conditions set by Mayor Regina and Sheriff Emma.  

 

I wonder... if Cruella tried to influence birds, and the birds were Snow's friends, whose influence on animals would win?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/572288329821003776

The voice at the drive thru at Mr. Cluck's was Jin from Lost!

Edited March 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[darkestboy]

Good return episode. It did seem like Regina and everyone were a little too quick to trust/allow Cruella and Ursula into Storybrook and even they did seem a little too quick to trust Rumple as well.

The flashbacks were pretty good with the ladies and Maleficent meeting up for the first time and having to work together after Rumple betrayed them too.

Nice that Snow and Charming are finally going to get something interesting to do given how underused they were in the first half of the season too.

Great scenes with Belle/Hook and Emma/Regina in this episode as well. Really liking the latter's budding friendship too.

Blue Fairy is back too and the Author stuff seems to be moving along alright too, 8/10
 

[YaddaYadda]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/572288329821003776

The voice at the drive thru at Mr. Cluck's was Jin from Lost!

I really loved Jin on Lost, I mean loved him, he was my favorite.  But this show needs to stop!  The Lost references are ANNOYING!  They're not even trying to make an effort to separate the two for one thing.  So is the Author the Man in Black and the Sorcerer is Jacob?  Because A&E don't have an original idea between them.

[Lieutenant]

I want to know when exactly Snow became the head of the Storybrooke mafia. With Charming as her "muscle", no less.

 

I don't know. I liked seeing her being that way, but I now want to see the scene with Charming and all the dwarfs backing her up.

I loved how they cut to Charming for a split second and he had this look on his face like: "She'll totally do it.  I've seen it before, and it won't be pretty."  And then I thought of the line from RH Prince of Thieves, "I'm gonna cut your heart out WITH A SPOON!"  Yeah, I'd like to see Snow do that.

[Mari]

I really loved Jin on Lost, I mean loved him, he was my favorite. But this show needs to stop! The Lost references are ANNOYING! They're not even trying to make an effort to separate the two for one thing. So is the Author the Man in Black and the Sorcerer is Jacob? Because A&E don't have an original idea between them.

I didn't watch Lost, so I dont get the references during the episode. But, based on the on what I read here? It would be nice if they spent a fraction of the time working out the giant plot issues in the show they are actually in charge of that they spend coming up with winky little nods to a show they minioned on.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Mari

[Rumsy4]

So is the Author the Man in Black and the Sorcerer is Jacob? Because A&E don't have an original idea between them.

The Author/Sorceror really sounded like Jacob when they first introduced him. Now that they have been clarified as two separate people, A&E do seem to be going for the Jacob vs MiB archetypes. They must know that that twist wasn't uniformly we'll received in LOST! Introducing an all-powerful master manipulator 4 seasons into the Show is never a good idea!

[turbogirlnyc]

I loved how they cut to Charming for a split second and he had this look on his face like: "She'll totally do it. I've seen it before, and it won't be pretty." And then I thought of the line from RH Prince of Thieves, "I'm gonna cut your heart out WITH A SPOON!" Yeah, I'd like to see Snow do that.

Aww... Alan Rickman. Priceless!

I recall David's look and now that you mention it, lol, I totally see it!

[KingOfHearts]

I really loved Jin on Lost, I mean loved him, he was my favorite. But this show needs to stop! The Lost references are ANNOYING! They're not even trying to make an effort to separate the two for one thing. So is the Author the Man in Black and the Sorcerer is Jacob? Because A&E don't have an original idea between them.

I didn't have a problem with it. It was corny and tongue-in-cheek, which this show really needs more of if they can't write better stories. Now if they did the Author and Sorcerer as Jacob and MiB, that would be over the top. But fictional brands and cameos shared between TV shows aren't exactly unheard of. Sharing entire storylines is where I cry plagiarism.

Edited March 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mitch]

I never watched "Lost," but I don't have a problem it..the scene was funny so I was okay with it..(and you just know that Trashy Cruella and Ursula love their fast food!) "Once," does homages to all types of books and movies (Easter Eggs?) and my favorite was the statue of Pazuzu the Demon from the Exorcist standing behind Emma in Rump's Vault of Evil Things that even scare him.

[Dani-Ellie]

What I loved about the drive-thru scene was that I at first thought they were stuck in traffic. Which, Rumplestiltskin, Cruella DeVil, and Ursula being stuck in traffic was funny enough but somehow the drive-thru made it funnier.

[kili]

I never watched "Lost," but I don't have a problem it..the scene was funny so I was okay with it..(and you just know that Trashy Cruella and Ursula love their fast food!)

 

Exactly. They wanted a funny drive-thru scene (at first I thought they were stuck in traffic) and they want to avoid product placements that aren't paid for, so why not go with one from Lost? Most people won't notice, but it's a great easter egg for those that do.

 

That scene was fabulous, so I'm happy. I kind of wish the road trip lasted longer.

[YaddaYadda]

Don't get me wrong, the scene was awesome and hilarious, but I just hate every single Lost reference, every single Lost rip out and so on.  I get the feeling Once will end like Lost ended with a big WTF.

[iMonrey]

 

I enjoy the scenery chewing, but you are right that she doesn't really belong in the Enchanted Forest.  She feels like a very modern character thrown into a medieval setting, but without any acknowledgment that she's out of place.  I wasn't all that impressed with her introduction in the episode.  I mean, it isn't like Malefecent or Ursula are going to be all that threatened by barking dogs.

 

I'm sure if the writers were pressed on this issue in a Podcast they'd pull out the standard excuse that Cruella DeVil is from some kind of alternate world that resembles our own world in the 1950s. The same bullshit explanation they gave for Peter Pan and Wendy being from some kind of "alternate" 1890s London, or Frankenstein being from some kind of black and white world that looks like 1800s Bavaria.

 

The thing is, if she's from some kind of alternate world she should have totally won the day in Dalmations because she could have simply controlled the dogs instead of stealing them. And Cruella was no dog whisperer, she hated dogs. She only wanted the dalmation fur to make a nice coat.

 

 

I really loved Jin on Lost, I mean loved him, he was my favorite.  But this show needs to stop!  The Lost references are ANNOYING!  They're not even trying to make an effort to separate the two for one thing.  So is the Author the Man in Black and the Sorcerer is Jacob?  Because A&E don't have an original idea between them.

 

Yeah, they're more caught up in their own "cleverness" than writing a story that makes sense. I've said it before but I was so burned by Lost they're not doing themselves any favors by trying so hard to associate this show with that one.

 

 

It would be nice if they spent a fraction of the time working out the giant plot issues in the show they are actually in charge of that they spend coming up with winky little nods to a show they minioned on.

 

 

Well put.

[KingOfHearts]

I noticed Mother Superior's first and last name in her missing person form is Reul Ghorm. "Yen Sid" is the property owner of the Apprentice's house. Blue was reported missing by Sister Massing, I guess a fairy who didn't get hatted. 

[jhlipton]

The thing is, if she's from some kind of alternate world she should have totally won the day in Dalmations because she could have simply controlled the dogs instead of stealing them. And Cruella was no dog whisperer, she hated dogs. She only wanted the dalmation fur to make a nice coat.

 

That's what I was thinking too. The ability to control animals violates every second of 101 Dalmatians.

 

Yeah, they're more caught up in their own "cleverness" than writing a story that makes sense. I've said it before but I was so burned by Lost they're not doing themselves any favors by trying so hard to associate this show with that one.

Same here.

[Shanna Marie]

It just occurred to me: Rumple rolled into town like he's boss, but he does remember that someone else has the dagger and can instantly and easily control him, right? Though I guess he must be counting on Belle to react like, "Oh, pookie, I'm so sorry, I missed you so much." What he isn't counting on is that Hook is now Belle's library buddy. What happens to his latest evil scheme if someone with the dagger just orders him to leave town again? Then Cruella and Ursula are off the hook because they fulfilled their end of the bargain with him, and they'd probably be glad to be rid of him.

 

Just as it was so ridiculously easy for him to come back that it negated any of the tension from him being banished (and from Robin having to leave), dealing with him is so easy that unless he has something very, very clever planned, the good guys are going to look like raging idiots if they can't easily just dismiss him.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Just as it was so ridiculously easy for him to come back that it negated any of the tension from him being banished (and from Robin having to leave), dealing with him is so easy that unless he has something very, very clever planned, the good guys are going to look like raging idiots if they can't easily just dismiss him.

Wouldn't it be smarter for the queens to leave him outside of Storybrooke, then only let him in once they get what's promised? Then just communicate with phone/email? Or at least get the dagger first?

[The Cake is a Pie]

That's what I was thinking too. The ability to control animals violates every second of 101 Dalmatians.

The only workaround I can think of is that Cruella is not originally from the EF, but somehow traveled there and learned magic after the events of 101 Dalmatians.

Of course, I wouldn't put it past these writers to ignore the original story completely.

[orza]

They already said that this Cruella is not the same character as the one in 101 Dalmatians. Just like they have been saying for 4 seasons now that they use existing stories are a starting point and do mash-ups and twists to create their own version of the story. They also never claimed the "real world" of the show is identical to the real world we live in. Maybe the 101 Dalmatians movie doesn't exists in the OUAT universe or it is different from the movie we know.

[Arnella]

During the whole Frozen sojourn, I didn't feel the need to comment.  However, this episode got my blood boiling and it's still boiling 3 days later so I have to let it out.

 

"The heart with the greatest potential for darkness isn't Regina, it's Emma Swan."  I know that A&E love Regina and Emma is just a throw away plot point in Woegina's redemption story to them but WTF? 

 

At the end of last season, Regina (admitted mass murderess and patricidal maniac) burned Snow at the stake while laughing with delight.  Emma witnessed this horror and an hour later was apologizing to Regina for SAVING THE LIFE of one of Regina's victims because it slowed her roll with her toy boy.  Then proceeded to tell Marian to let go of that whole slated for execution just for speaking up for Emma's MOTHER because Regina is good now.  Even if Emma snapped and started firebombing Storybrooke, she could never come close to exceeding Regina's POTENTIAL for darkness.

 

Then just to hit that "our good guys are just as bad so our bad guys can be good" trope harder, Snow and Charming get to have a dark back story with Cru and Urs. So Snow isn't going to spend half a season crying about whatever bad thing she did with them like with Cora?  I guess they shouldn't have made it seem like that candle thing was the worst she ever did.

 

I would have turned it off forever right there EXCEPT that Rumpel is being everything I love about him and nothing I hate.  Brilliant, evil, and a master manipulator even without magic (not to mention HOT). No whining about Belle and being good and especially no Belle in his scenes.  Robert rocks every scene he is in even in an old robe eating Ramen but that scene on the road from despair to BAMF was killer!

[KAOS Agent]

 

They also never claimed the "real world" of the show is identical to the real world we live in.

 

The very opening of the Pilot started with these exact words on the screen: 

 

"Once upon a time

There was an enchanted forest filled with all the classic characters we know.

Or think we know.

One day they found themselves trapped in a place where all their happy endings were stolen.

Our World.

This is how it happened..."

 

So yes, they have explicitly stated from the very first seconds of the show that the world of Storybrooke is our world. That's the whole point of it.

[YaddaYadda]

"The heart with the greatest potential for darkness isn't Regina, it's Emma Swan."

 

Regina's heart is already charcoal black, so whatever its potential was, she already reached it and then some.  

 

Chernabog also went after Maleficent which means her heart had the greatest potential for darkness, not that she had the darkest heart.  We'll see how all of this plays out.  

 

But Rumple needs to be knocked in the teeth.  I wish someone would strip him of his seer powers.  Let's see how good he is at manipulating everyone and everything.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Chernabog also went after Maleficent which means her heart had the greatest potential for darkness, not that she had the darkest heart.  We'll see how all of this plays out.

That's why I'm thinking Maleficent used to be a powerful light magic wielder like Emma. If she's the Black Fairy, then that would fit.

[YaddaYadda]

That's why I'm thinking Maleficent used to be a powerful light magic wielder like Emma. If she's the Black Fairy, then that would fit.

 

No one can fuck you over like the Blue Fairy can.

[Serena]

That's why I'm thinking Maleficent used to be a powerful light magic wielder like Emma.

And wouldn't that be an incredible and surprising twist, not at all taked from the Angelina movie? Imagine that, a secretly good Maleficient!

[turbogirlnyc]

And wouldn't that be an incredible and surprising twist, not at all taked from the Angelina movie? Imagine that, a secretly good Maleficient!

Yep, taken straight from the movie. What did we expect? Originality? The very least they could do is give Mal a decent headpiece. One that doesn't take me right out of the story.

Was it just me or did imp Rumple's voice sound too "normal" in the fairybacks?

[YaddaYadda]

Hey, maybe Blue decided she didn't want Maleficent as a fairy because she was probably going to be more powerful than her, so she decided to cast her down and lied to everyone about how bad she had turned out.

 

Or maybe she boinked some dude and Blue was like fairies don't have sex and banished her.  I mean she didn't approve of Nova falling in love with Grumpy.

[Mitch]

And wouldn't that be an incredible and surprising twist, not at all taked from the Angelina movie? Imagine that, a secretly good Maleficient!

Hey she did love her pet Unicorn and would sacrifice herself to save it, and then she tried to keep the Curse out of Regina's hands, so I can see her redemption not being that hard...however,  Mal...who put both Aurora and her mom to sleep..means she was not secretly good.

 

I like Mal as someone who had an axe to grind with the Auroras (and really, I find all the princes and pricness of the EF to be annoying so...) and is just a grumpy guss wanting to hang out at her castle with her pet unicorn and not answer her crystal ball when that bitchy Regina calls.

[The Cake is a Pie]

Mal really needs some locks on her castle doors, though. Apparently anyone can wander in.

[Mitch]

Security or lack of it seems to be a recurring theme in the EF and Storybrooke.

 

LOL..I remember right after the curse broke, and Regina still didn't have her magic back, after the Charmings broke up the usual Storybrooke Mob (which is always useless) Regina just waltzes out her front door and drives on over to Gold's shop to get her goofy spell book back.  You would think that they would have a guard in place 24/7 to make sure she was in place at all times. That was the first time I realized how really stupid and useless Charming is..(Snow got sucked into the Vortex at that time.) It was also the first time that I really thought the Storybrookers get what they deserve ..(to make them not look as stupid the writers could have had a secret escape tunnel in her basement...as there is no way Regina would not have an escape in case she needs it.)

 

Wouldn't it be smarter for the queens to leave him outside of Storybrooke, then only let him in once they get what's promised? Then just communicate with phone/email? Or at least get the dagger first?

Once again, you are thinking deeper then the characters....well, really the writers.  At least they could have excised the Rumple agreement clause..."You swear that you will not betray us again and we will work together to get ALL of our happy endings."  Rump is a shit who would find some out but at least they tried.

 

By the way, I can watch a loop of Ursula kicking Rumps ass outside the town line over and over and over....

[Shanna Marie]

You know, I think these writers' subconsciouses are also aware of how silly the Find the Author plot is because they undermined the premise of it multiple times in a single episode, and I don't think they're at all aware they did it.

 

We have Regina, who supposedly totally deserves a Happy Ending because it's been a year or so since she tried to murder anyone, and so she's getting an entirely unfair outcome because one thing in her otherwise perfect life didn't go her way. She's never expressed regret or remorse for her past actions, and has done nothing really to atone for them. Now she's spent the past six weeks moping over the horrible thing that happened to her (losing her boyfriend of two weeks) and trying to find an Author to demand a happy ending for herself because she believes that the only reason she's not getting everything she ever wanted is that she was a villain and therefore is being prevented by some powerful being from getting a happy ending.

 

In the same episode, they show us another former villain, Hook, who feels really bad about the things he's done, including the things where he had absolutely no control and was as much a victim as anyone, and who is taking responsibility for his actions and his current situation because he knew he should have been stronger and should have been a better person. He's not even really blaming the person who victimized him for his current situation even though he went through the trauma of having his heart ripped out, being forced to do things he hated, and nearly being murdered. He's yet to complain that his life hasn't come out the way he wanted it. And we see that he's spent the past six weeks frantically trying to find a way to help the people he was forced to hurt.

 

Also in the same episode, they show us Belle, a hero who has never really wronged anyone directly and who is in a similar situation to Regina in having forced the man she loved to leave the town. Her situation is even worse, since he was her husband and she learned that he loved power more than he loved her and she caught him in the process of murdering someone when she thought he'd really reformed. She feels responsible for not seeing the warning signs earlier and doing something to stop him and has spent the past six weeks trying to help the people her husband wronged.

 

So it's like they're telling us that this Author plot is a good idea to get Regina the happy ending she deserves, all while showing us that she's selfish and focused only on what she wants, in contrast to others who are spending their time trying to help others and while showing that there are both former villains and heroes who are worse off than she is, who've had worse things happen to them and who have been hurt worse than she has who aren't feeling the need to petition for an easy outcome for their problems. Seriously, Regina, if you want a happy ending, stop mooning over the book, get out of your cushy office, and help other people. You'd be amazed the difference that would make.

[Shanna Marie]

I want someone to walk into Regina's office and be like, "This is how you spend your day?"

Yeah, where's the power failure or other town crisis for Mayor Mills to deal with, and would she actually deal with it, or is re-reading that book more important to her?

 

I don't see how she can spend that much time with the book and come away with the feeling that she's been horribly wronged by not having a boyfriend rather than feeling bad about what she did, whether or not it was caused by the author. After all, Hook is feeling bad about what he did while Rumple was holding his heart and literally commanding his every movement. That's why it's so weird that all these parallels keep showing up, even as they keep writing this silly plot. It's like their own brains are rebelling.

[FabulousTater]

I don't see how she can spend that much time with the book and come away with the feeling that she's been horribly wronged by not having a boyfriend rather than feeling bad about what she did, whether or not it was caused by the author. After all, Hook is feeling bad about what he did while Rumple was holding his heart and literally commanding his every movement. That's why it's so weird that all these parallels keep showing up, even as they keep writing this silly plot. It's like their own brains are rebelling.

 

It's The Regina Permaboner Grand Paradox -- The writers' permaboner that bends reality, the entire fabric of the show's universe, around Regina causes paradoxes to form everywhere else.

Edited March 6, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Zuleikha]

I don't see how she can spend that much time with the book and come away with the feeling that she's been horribly wronged by not having a boyfriend rather than feeling bad about what she did, whether or not it was caused by the author.

 

My impression was always that it's not that she felt wronged by the specifics of losing Robin but rather that she felt that Marian's return was a sign that no matter what she did, fate would work against her because of her originally being a villain. However, she continued to make better, helpful choices, including sending Robin across the town line with Marian and Roland. So while she may have the occasional pity party, she's hardly letting it dictate the course of her life. 

 

However, I agree that the whole villain/hero dichotomy doesn't work well with the show's events. It's been part of the show's mythology from day one (Regina, Snow, and Henry have all directly talked about the villain/hero happy ending connection), and I feel like I can actually make it fit most of the major characters, but then there are secondary characters like Marian where there's no way to make it work. 

 

The scroll thing was pure idiot plot. There's just no way that both Emma and Regina would hand over the scroll to Cruella/Ursula and fail to get it back. There's also no way, IMHO, that both of them would fail to make the connection that Robin can now re-enter Storybrooke after Marian's settled (and how much freaking help is Robin going to be with Marian anyway? He wasn't part of the original curse and doesn't appear to have gotten any kind of Curse 2.0 download. He's more likely to get the three of them arrested due to his compulsive thieving!). Surely, there had to be a better way to get Cruella/Ursula inside. 

 

Also, I do not buy that Rumple, with his pawnshop owner curse download, could have whatever computer skills would be required to fake an Oxford professor's email. I also don't buy that there's no one else in Storybrooke who could have translated that scroll for Belle. It's too much.

[Camera One]

harvardprofessorskilledatancientrunes@hotmail.com?

Edited March 15, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

harvardprofessorskilledatancientrunes@hotmail.com?

I wouldn't be surprised if Belle clicked on a pop-up ad that said "Oxford Professor Translation Services, Specializing in Ancient Tongues and Incantations! Click here!"

Edited March 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

I wouldn't be surprised if Belle clicked on a pop-up ad that said "Oxford Professor Translation Services, Specializing in Ancient Tongues and Incantations! Click here!"

 

It said "I translated these ancient ruins and you won't believe what happened!"

[YaddaYadda]

I'm surprised they even have the internet in Storybrooke.  It's supposed to be a town out of time, stuck in 1983.  How did that whole thing happen?  Did Regina magic them dial-up?

[Serena]

My impression was always that it's not that she felt wronged by the specifics of losing Robin but rather that she felt that Marian's return was a sign that no matter what she did, fate would work against her because of her originally being a villain. However, she continued to make better, helpful choices, including sending Robin across the town line with Marian and Roland. So while she may have the occasional pity party, she's hardly letting it dictate the course of her life. 

The problem is that, if she were really a hero and thus deserving of a happy ending, her feeling of joy and relief that one of her innocent victims was alive would be greater than her pity party about losing a one-week boyfriend. She would look at it as an opportunity to be a little less of a villain, because one of her bad acts was undone. The way it comes across, the only reason she wants to be a hero is because she thinks that will get her a reward, not because she's realized how really fucking horrible she acted and is guilty for it and would like to make amends. Case in point, we've yet to see her apologize when it didn't suit another purpose.

[YaddaYadda]

The way it comes across, the only reason she wants to be a hero is because she thinks that will get her a reward, not because she's realized how really fucking horrible she acted and is guilty for it and would like to make amends.

 

She doesn't remember her, so you know, whatever...nameless faceless victim = who cares!

[Zuleikha]

The way it comes across, the only reason she wants to be a hero is because she thinks that will get her a reward, not because she's realized how really fucking horrible she acted and is guilty for it and would like to make amends.

 

I don't think that's true, but thd response really belongs in the Regina thread. Maybe now that I'm only one episode behind, I'll finally go in there. :)

 

I'm surprised they even have the internet in Storybrooke.  It's supposed to be a town out of time, stuck in 1983.  How did that whole thing happen?  Did Regina magic them dial-up?

 

The show missed a good opportunity with Snow's Curse 2.0 to update Storybrooke technology. Snow's cursed Storybrooke should have been a little bit different from Regina's because it was created in a different year by a different person.

[KingOfHearts]

We've been speculating on this board that the curse routinely updated Storybrooke over the years, granted a bit delayed. That doesn't explain Curse 2, unless 1983 Storybrooke was very early-70s.