Worst of Friends: Your Least Favorite Moments

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, RainbowBrite said:

I cringe through Fat!Monica episodes. I love Friends but there are a lot of '90s/'00s issues that are just not ok any more (i.e. the fat jokes, the gay panic, the lack of characters of colour, etc.).

Agreed. That the show gets credit for having one of the first lesbian couples, yet is filled with homophobia, is a special feat.

But offensiveness aside, I really never understood why Fat!Monica was so different, IMO, even her voice. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by VagueDisclaimer

[Bort]

With the exception of The One That Could Have Been (which is two whole episodes that didn't actually happen anyway), Fat Monica was always a teenager. She lost the weight when she was, what 19? I chalk it up to her just still being a kid, basically. 

[Crs97]

I thought Courtney Cox once said it was important to her that fat Monica always be happy.  I didn't notice her changed voice, but she might have done it because she thinks it makes her younger (and she is not the best actress).  I liked that she always seemed to have fun, and Ross shut down Chandler quickly when he called her fat.

[mojoween]

In TOW Monica Sings Courtney’s hair is SO unflattering it kinda angers me a little bit.

[LeslieYep]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:49 PM, Crs97 said:

I thought Courtney Cox once said it was important to her that fat Monica always be happy.  I didn't notice her changed voice, but she might have done it because she thinks it makes her younger (and she is not the best actress).  I liked that she always seemed to have fun, and Ross shut down Chandler quickly when he called her fat.

I agree with this and I appreciate Courtney Cox's efforts to ensure that fat Monica was typically happy, but I still think it is worrisome that her weight was the main joke of the character and that all of the jokes surrounding that just poked fun at her weight as opposed to when she is skinny and they poke more fun at her personality.

[Danny Franks]

On 26/10/2017 at 8:31 PM, Madding crowd said:

I do agree with your comments on Joey. Joey was a lead in a popular soap opera, appeared in many plays and was a co-star in a major film (the one with Gary Oldman). I don't think he could have done all of these things if he were as dumb as portrayed in the last few seasons. He would have to learn lines, negotiate contracts with his agent and act professional on the job. 

Joey often seems incredibly stupid for the sake of a gag, but then goes back to being his normal self most of the rest of the time. Even in the last couple of seasons, there are examples of him being quite quick witted, at least in conversations, able to turn the tables after saying something stupid. And he's sometimes quite emotionally intelligent as well, an example being how understanding and perceptive he was with Ross in TOW Ross is Fine. 

So you could easily argue that his intelligence fluctuates, depending on the storyline or the joke. It does happen with all of the characters, especially Ross and Rachel, who are both sometimes shown as being very smart and capable, but also sometimes really, really daft.

 

On 29/11/2017 at 4:19 AM, LeslieYep said:

I agree with this and I appreciate Courtney Cox's efforts to ensure that fat Monica was typically happy, but I still think it is worrisome that her weight was the main joke of the character and that all of the jokes surrounding that just poked fun at her weight as opposed to when she is skinny and they poke more fun at her personality.

I thought that her neurotic personality developed as a result of needing to control her urges so she could lose weight, and keep it off. In the flashbacks and 'what ifs', she doesn't seem to have the same abrasive personality, and I figured that was because she hadn't forced herself to change so drastically. So it made sense that she seemed happy and more relaxed as fat Monica. That side of it, at least, felt like smart writing.

The gags about her being fat were obviously low hanging fruit, and the audience hooting and hollering just because Courtney Cox was in a fat suit was annoying. I was never a fan of fat Monica because of that. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Danny Franks

[BBHN]

Totally worth it for the "Shut up! The camera adds 10 pounds"/"So how many cameras are actually on you?" joke.

[mojoween]

When Monica was talking about Ross and Rachel kissing in the secret hallway where no one ever goes I absolutely hate Phoebe over-dramatically barging in and shrieking “Oh my god you guys kissed?!?  What does this MEAN?!?  Are you getting back together?!?”

An unrelated sub plot that would never ever be played today and to be honest I’m surprised they show returns of it is when Joey is up for Days of Our Lives the first time and Estelle tells him he has to sleep with the director or whoever to get the part.

He ends up saying no...gets the part...and sleeps with her anyways.  Joey being a man-whore is whatever, but the reverse casting couch in today’s environment is cringeworthy.

[Jax7917]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

When Monica was talking about Ross and Rachel kissing in the secret hallway where no one ever goes I absolutely hate Phoebe over-dramatically barging in and shrieking “Oh my god you guys kissed?!?  What does this MEAN?!?  Are you getting back together?!?”

An unrelated sub plot that would never ever be played today and to be honest I’m surprised they show returns of it is when Joey is up for Days of Our Lives the first time and Estelle tells him he has to sleep with the director or whoever to get the part.

He ends up saying no...gets the part...and sleeps with her anyways.  Joey being a man-whore is whatever, but the reverse casting couch in today’s environment is cringeworthy.

Yeah Monica gets mad about Rachel stealing her thunder there yet is all for her stealing it at her wedding when rachel just HAD to take a pregnancy test in the bathroom with Monica on what was supposed to be a day all about Monica 

[Kisa]

I hate how the show butchered Monica after her and Chandler got together. I really loved her until then and it just went downhill so fast. 

 

One moment I just watched was Rachel’s baby shower and it was all an absolute mess. They changed Rachel’s mother (who absolutely loved her friends in every other episode she appeared in) to a pompous witch so Monica could have the lowest of low moments ever?

It was also the most grounded they made Phoebe in a long time; trying to get Monica to drop it when Ms. Green was angry to her bemused “I have no respect for Chandler” after hearing Monica’s plan to get Ms Green mad at her pregnant daughter so she could swoop in. 

Just... wtf? That’s not the same sweet Monica who got her dream job only to deal with the bittersweet of everyone hating her. That’s the one I cheered for and loved. 

 

Last big one: All the retcons they did to make Monica and Chandler fit perfectly together. “Kissing doesn’t feel weird!” is weird when they woke up to “can you not look while I dress?” The thanksgiving ones where apparently she got into cooking because Chandler suggested it? Dropped weight to get back at him? 

 

I don’t know what happened with the writing, but running on fumes made them all pretty bad people towards the end and it just really crushed the nostalgia that built with it. 

[millennium]

On 10/26/2017 at 9:48 AM, strippedhalo said:

Here's a transcript of the episode: The One With the Embryos

Is the offensive part Joey's lines about the chick in the very first scene?  I guess I'm not surprised that the show's ongoing homophobia would branch off into transphobia, as well, but yeah.  I still like Friends, but a lot of things really did not age well.

There were digs at transgender people every now and then.   I forget the specific episode, let's just call it "The One Where Ross Has to Apply Rachel's Make-up."   She has to go to some work function and needs Ross help.   Predictably, he overdoes it to a comical degree, and Rachel says, "Great, I guess I'll just sit with the transsexual from Purchasing."

[Bouffe]

There are two things I absolutely hated in the 10 years the show ran. Yes there were little cringe worthy moments here and there, but I forgot about them easily enough. But what I still can't get over is the whole Joey-is-in-love-with-Rachel thing. Absolutely hated it. It made Joey miserable (and Joey is a happy go lucky character!) and accomplished nothing in the grand scheme of things. And that ties in nicely with the second thing I hated from the series; Joey is the ONLY one who does not end the series with someone. Phoebe has Mike (although I really, really wanted her to marry the science guy), Monica has Chandler and of course Ross has Rachel. Who does poor Joey have? :(

[chitowngirl]

Since they were spinning Joey off to his own show, TPTB probably wanted him single at the end of Friends.

[Jax7917]

Yea Joey really had no character growth throughout the show but I guess because of the spinoff they wanted him single and also because his character was about being a playboy and ultimately that's what made him happy . 

[Danny Franks]

On 21/12/2017 at 7:50 PM, Bouffe said:

There are two things I absolutely hated in the 10 years the show ran. Yes there were little cringe worthy moments here and there, but I forgot about them easily enough. But what I still can't get over is the whole Joey-is-in-love-with-Rachel thing. Absolutely hated it. It made Joey miserable (and Joey is a happy go lucky character!) and accomplished nothing in the grand scheme of things. And that ties in nicely with the second thing I hated from the series; Joey is the ONLY one who does not end the series with someone. Phoebe has Mike (although I really, really wanted her to marry the science guy), Monica has Chandler and of course Ross has Rachel. Who does poor Joey have? :(

My own, in-show interpretation of how the spinoff came about is that Joey felt like the odd one out, still living in his old apartment, alone. Chandler and Monica moved out to the suburbs, Phoebe and Mike embarking on married life, Ross and Rachel (absurdly) reunited. All change for everyone... And he's left behind. It's a bit depressing, really. 

This is all a moo point, because of the spinoff, but the most satisfactory thing to do with Joey/Rachel, once the writers decided they weren't going to go through with it, would have been to use Joey's feelings for Rachel as a way of propelling him forwards. To have him want a real relationship, and find someone he could fall in love with. Then to find a really cool guest star to play her, and at least have the show end with him having someone in his life.

[Bouffe]

On December 21, 2017 at 2:59 PM, chitowngirl said:

Since they were spinning Joey off to his own show, TPTB probably wanted him single at the end of Friends.

I feel like a really bad Joey fan but... What spin off? Episodes?

[Maharincess]

16 minutes ago, Bouffe said:

I feel like a really bad Joey fan but... What spin off? Episodes?

You didn't miss much. It sucked. 

[FormerMod-a1]

49 minutes ago, Bouffe said:

I feel like a really bad Joey fan but... What spin off? Episodes?

It was not Episodes. I think it was just called Joey, but I could be wrong. 

[chitowngirl]

Yes, it was called Joey. He moved to California, one of his sisters was there and it lasted for two seasons. In fact, it got pulled before all the episodes of season 2 aired.

[Starry Eyes]

The worst for me was Chandler in the box.  Joey was already cheating on Kathy with another woman, so why did he get upset that Chandler was in love with Kathy when he wasn't really into her?  That was my worst episode.

[Madding crowd]

Joey and Kathy were not exclusive but Chandler was his best friend. It is crossing a boundary to just make out with your best friend’s love interest. Joey also said he was going to break up with the other girl and try to make it work with Kathy. 

[mojoween]

Ross at the wedding to his and Emily’s parents - “And if I hear one more word, NO GRANDCHILDREN!”

Sorry, Ben.

[stormy]

Just watched the wedding episode - again - and I really don't like Monica's dress. I think it looks awful on her.

[Jax7917]

Yeah I think they could have made Monica look better than she did for her wedding . It also annoyed me that chandler wouldn't just take off his shoes instead of complaining the whole night that he couldn't dance with his shoes and asking other people for theirs . 

[chitowngirl]

All he had to do was go outside and "twist" his feet on the sidewalk to create some traction and scuffing on the bottom of his shoes. 

[ALittleShelfish]

I fell down the rabbit hole of the Friends forum and had to join in. I don't even remember the episode (they all run together when they're not shown in order on Nick at Night lol) but I think it was around the time Chandler was in Tulsa (another dumb plot) and Rachel came into the apartment and talked about her bad day, her boss kept calling her "Raquel" and "by the end of the day, the mailroom guy was calling me Rocky" NO. NO RACHEL, HE WASN'T, JUST STOP.  What a dumb line.  

And there are so many bad lines, like someone mentioned earlier, once it became more about slapstick than actual plot... they kind of lost me.  Doesn't mean I don't have it on in the background every night, but still. 

[Jax7917]

Anything with Phoebe I just didn't find funny. A lot of times they tried way too hard to make her funny and it just fell really short for me.  Chandler's my favorite, but all of the others had good moments too. 

[mojoween]

In the one after Vegas Rachel says “Ross if you don’t get this annulment I will!”

So why didn’t she?  Knowing how cagey he had already been about it, why wouldn’t she either do it herself or go with him?  I know he had a guy, but seriously, something that important you would think she would make sure it was done by seeing it with her own eyes.

Obvs it was done for the humor, but still.

And in the same ep Monica tells Chandler to lock the door and come back in and he says “this door hasn’t been locked for five years but ok.” Again, I know they were going for the meta humor, but honestly, I don’t think there is anyone in New York City who has ever left their domicile without locking the door.  Even to get the mail.

Apparently I’m full of complaints about this situation because Monica tells Rachel she can take as much time as she needs to find a new place to live.  Joey offers, Rachel says no.  Ross offers, and Rachel is over the moon about it for some unknown reason, and says “I was about to be homeless!”

Um, why, exactly?  Why was she rushing to move out without having a place to go when Monica told her to take her time?  And Joey was right across the hall, she didn’t HAVE to participate in Naked Thursdays, so wouldn’t that have made more sense?

Edited January 7, 2018 by mojoween

[Danny Franks]

39 minutes ago, mojoween said:

In the one after Vegas Rachel says “Ross if you don’t get this annulment I will!”

So why didn’t she?  Knowing how cagey he had already been about it, why wouldn’t she either do it herself or go with him?  I know he had a guy, but seriously, something that important you would think she would make sure it was done by seeing it with her own eyes.

I don't know... I think it was well established that one of Rachel's traits was to avoid difficult situations and avoid taking the blame for things. Avoiding telling her dad she was pregnant, hiring Tag because she felt bad for him then getting him to tell the other candidate she wasn't hired after all, avoiding telling Ross about her and Joey, and I'm sure there were other occasions like that. I feel like it would be in character for her to say 'well, Ross said he'd sort this out, so I don't have to'.

Tangentially related to this,  I never cared for was the rest of the group seeming eager for the two of them to get back together, despite all of the drama, heartache and arguments that they got through. Any real friends would have been encouraging them to move on, and warning against any attempts to rekindle something that was so toxic.

[Bort]

I was always kind of icked out at Monica’s vested interest in hearing about Rachel and Ross. I know they were going for a “girl talk” kind of thing with that because it would be all three girls, but in the end, she was hearing graphic details about HER BROTHER. 

Ew. 

[Jax7917]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't know... I think it was well established that one of Rachel's traits was to avoid difficult situations and avoid taking the blame for things. Avoiding telling her dad she was pregnant, hiring Tag because she felt bad for him then getting him to tell the other candidate she wasn't hired after all, avoiding telling Ross about her and Joey, and I'm sure there were other occasions like that. I feel like it would be in character for her to say 'well, Ross said he'd sort this out, so I don't have to'.

Tangentially related to this,  I never cared for was the rest of the group seeming eager for the two of them to get back together, despite all of the drama, heartache and arguments that they got through. Any real friends would have been encouraging them to move on, and warning against any attempts to rekindle something that was so toxic.

Yeah it's not like Ross and Rachel had this amazing relationship and they broke up because they were young and stupid . They were about 27 and 28 and had an immature relationship where it was clear they didn't bring out the good in each other . I too felt it was very contrived to have the friends care that much for them to get back together especially all those years later 

[mojoween]

Especially when they were so inconsistent about it.

At one time Joey tried to have Ross see that he and Rachel had moved on.  Then another time Phoebe was all excited because they kissed and might get back together.

Come to think of it, Chandler was really the only one who seemed to be “eh” about the whole thing.

[doesntworkonwood]

So Friends just go released on UK Netflix and I've just gotten to the episodes where Ross and Rachel break up for the first time and Ross is so clearly in the wrong I can't believe that the show tried to present it as a two sided issue. 

1. As soon as Mark offers to help get her an interview, Ross just keeps making snarky comments about him having a thing for Rachel. 

2. She gets the job and is Ross happy for her? Nope he's annoyed that she's going to be working with Mark. Never mind that this is Rachel's opportunity to stop being 'just a waitress', her co-worker might fancy her so Ross is pissy about it. 

3. He sends her a bunch of flowers, and a 'love bug' and a BARBERSHOP QUARTET! To her job! Who does that? It makes Rachel look majorly unprofessional. 

4. He insults Mark when Mark is just kissing his girlfriend. You'd think that knowing Mark has a girlfriend would ease his worries a bit but nope. 

5. He makes Rachel ditch Mark to go to a lecture on Fashion, and then snores all the way through it. And when they come back? He once again insults Rachel's career. Repeatedly. 

6. When Rachel is super busy with work, and tells him so, he decides to come in, make noise and tries to drag her co-worker into their argument.

7. When they're 'On a Break' and he hears Mark's voice on the phone, Rachel tries to explain it to him but he just slams the phone one. That wouldn't be that bad if he didn't then go on to sleep with the copy girl. 

8. Then he spends all day trying to stop Rachel from finding this out. 

9. He expects Rachel to get over it within a week because 'they were on a break'. Hey Ross, how long did it take you to get over Carol cheating on you? Or how long did it take Monica to get over Richard? More than a fucking week. 

And then in the next episode the rest of the Friends aren't trying to take sides (even thought IMO Ross is clearly in the wrong and they should be supporting Rachel). Rachel asks them to come to a catwalk show with her, and when they say no (because they've got plans with Ross) she accepts it and instead invites them to skiing at the weekend. When they say they can't hang out with Ross, Ross tries to guilt them into staying with him during his 'first weekend alone'. Ermm... What about Rachel's first weekend alone? After being cheated on? And yet they're apparently both in the wrong here. WTF Show.

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, doesntworkonwood said:

So Friends just go released on UK Netflix and I've just gotten to the episodes where Ross and Rachel break up for the first time and Ross is so clearly in the wrong I can't believe that the show tried to present it as a two sided issue. 

1. As soon as Mark offers to help get her an interview, Ross just keeps making snarky comments about him having a thing for Rachel. 

2. She gets the job and is Ross happy for her? Nope he's annoyed that she's going to be working with Mark. Never mind that this is Rachel's opportunity to stop being 'just a waitress', her co-worker might fancy her so Ross is pissy about it. 

3. He sends her a bunch of flowers, and a 'love bug' and a BARBERSHOP QUARTET! To her job! Who does that? It makes Rachel look majorly unprofessional. 

4. He insults Mark when Mark is just kissing his girlfriend. You'd think that knowing Mark has a girlfriend would ease his worries a bit but nope. 

5. He makes Rachel ditch Mark to go to a lecture on Fashion, and then snores all the way through it. And when they come back? He once again insults Rachel's career. Repeatedly. 

6. When Rachel is super busy with work, and tells him so, he decides to come in, make noise and tries to drag her co-worker into their argument.

7. When they're 'On a Break' and he hears Mark's voice on the phone, Rachel tries to explain it to him but he just slams the phone one. That wouldn't be that bad if he didn't then go on to sleep with the copy girl. 

8. Then he spends all day trying to stop Rachel from finding this out. 

9. He expects Rachel to get over it within a week because 'they were on a break'. Hey Ross, how long did it take you to get over Carol cheating on you? Or how long did it take Monica to get over Richard? More than a fucking week. 

And then in the next episode the rest of the Friends aren't trying to take sides (even thought IMO Ross is clearly in the wrong and they should be supporting Rachel). Rachel asks them to come to a catwalk show with her, and when they say no (because they've got plans with Ross) she accepts it and instead invites them to skiing at the weekend. When they say they can't hang out with Ross, Ross tries to guilt them into staying with him during his 'first weekend alone'. Ermm... What about Rachel's first weekend alone? After being cheated on? And yet they're apparently both in the wrong here. WTF Show.

I have no stakes in Ross/Rachel. I find them toxic, frankly. But everything you wrote is on point - until Rachel explicitly told Ross they should take a break. Ross thought she meant their fighting and asked her to get ice cream. But she clarified, a break from US.

Now Ross fucking Chloe the minute after that happened was skeevy. And I'd think twice before reuniting.

But - and this is where the debate still runs rampant today - I don't agree Ross cheated. Once Rachel said "A break from us", all bets were off. I do agree Ross was a raging douche in denigrating Rachel's career and all that entailed. Full stop. And had Rachel just used that, I'd be on her side. But she constantly harped on how Ross cheated when she was the one wanting a time out. And continued to use it until it was driven into the freaking ground. Rachel doesn't get to change the narrative to augment her hurt.

Ross hiding it was another ick move, but that seemed ridiculous since, as far as he knew, it was over.

Rachel even told Monica they "broke up". So she can't have it both ways.

[JessDVD]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have no stakes in Ross/Rachel. I find them toxic, frankly. But everything you wrote is on point - until Rachel explicitly told Ross they should take a break. Ross thought she meant their fighting and asked her to get ice cream. But she clarified, a break from US.

Now Ross fucking Chloe the minute after that happened was skeevy. And I'd think twice before reuniting.

But - and this is where the debate still runs rampant today - I don't agree Ross cheated. Once Rachel said "A break from us", all bets were off. I do agree Ross was a raging douche in denigrating Rachel's career and all that entailed. Full stop. And had Rachel just used that, I'd be on her side. But she constantly harped on how Ross cheated when she was the one wanting a time out. And continued to use it until it was driven into the freaking ground. Rachel doesn't get to change the narrative to augment her hurt.

Ross hiding it was another ick move, but that seemed ridiculous since, as far as he knew, it was over.

Rachel even told Monica they "broke up". So she can't have it both ways.

I know this has been discussed to death but the thing I kept thinking when they were going on about this (and still are, I'm halfway through season 9), is that one-night stands, and as a rebound after a breakup, are portrayed as normal and expected behavior all over the show and nobody ever seems to have a problem with it except in this *one* instance. In real life, I'd have been majorly ticked in Rachel's shoes, but in the context of the show, I think her righteous indignation (especially with the letter and all that a few seasons later) is misplaced at best, and her saying she never would have done that is so not true, her character is routinely shown to do whatever SHE wants to do regardless of what standards she expects anyone else to adhere to.

Still not understanding the OTP!!! of Ross & Rachel and why the show is so obsessed with it.

[Bort]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have no stakes in Ross/Rachel. I find them toxic, frankly. But everything you wrote is on point - until Rachel explicitly told Ross they should take a break. Ross thought she meant their fighting and asked her to get ice cream. But she clarified, a break from US.

Now Ross fucking Chloe the minute after that happened was skeevy. And I'd think twice before reuniting.

But - and this is where the debate still runs rampant today - I don't agree Ross cheated. Once Rachel said "A break from us", all bets were off.

There's one thing that gives me pause at agreeing: the phone call. Ross called Rachel from the club and she was sounding like she was ready to reconcile. But Ross heard that Mark was there, promptly hung up on her and fucked Chloe. 

[Jax7917]

Yeah but in Ross' defense (because lord does he need one), he was right about Marks intentions and there is no reason he should have been at her apartment that night. If my boyfriend broke up with me and I called him to try to work things out, and another girl (one who my boyfriend knows I hate and don't trust) was talking in the background of our phone conversation, I'd flip out too. Should he have slept with someone else? No. But would it have made me as pissed as Rachel? Probably not under the circumstances of me dumping him. And then she was very annoying with the whole letter thing and them not getting back together because of not reading the 18 pages FRONT AND BACK at 5am. That situation made her seem like she was in a teenage relationship. 

Now, as for how Ross acted with Rachel when she was at work, oh boy. I can't defend him on that one.

[Bort]

35 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Yeah but in Ross' defense (because lord does he need one), he was right about Marks intentions and there is no reason he should have been at her apartment that night. If my boyfriend broke up with me and I called him to try to work things out, and another girl (one who my boyfriend knows I hate and don't trust) was talking in the background of our phone conversation, I'd flip out too. 

Mark was still Rachel's friend. She shouldn't be expected to not have her friends over because Ross doesn't like them. Ross and Rachel had already had that argument: even if Mark wants to sleep with her, it doesn't mean he gets to. So I don't sympathize with him flipping out because Rachel had told him til she was blue in the face that she wasn't interested in Mark.

[mojoween]

I do have pause with Rachel saying she didn’t want Mark to come over but he overrode her.  That’s not at all cool.

[Madding crowd]

Rachel was insanely jealous of Ross being around any women as well. They also had all of the cast do ‘stupid’ things like sleep with Paulo, Janice etc when they were dumped which Ross was. 

[Bort]

Oh Paolo. That was one I didn't get. I found him supremely unattractive.

[WendyCR72]

56 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Oh Paolo. That was one I didn't get. I found him supremely unattractive.

This!

[Jax7917]

On 1/17/2018 at 3:08 PM, doesntworkonwood said:

So Friends just go released on UK Netflix and I've just gotten to the episodes where Ross and Rachel break up for the first time and Ross is so clearly in the wrong I can't believe that the show tried to present it as a two sided issue. 

1. As soon as Mark offers to help get her an interview, Ross just keeps making snarky comments about him having a thing for Rachel. 

2. She gets the job and is Ross happy for her? Nope he's annoyed that she's going to be working with Mark. Never mind that this is Rachel's opportunity to stop being 'just a waitress', her co-worker might fancy her so Ross is pissy about it. 

3. He sends her a bunch of flowers, and a 'love bug' and a BARBERSHOP QUARTET! To her job! Who does that? It makes Rachel look majorly unprofessional. 

4. He insults Mark when Mark is just kissing his girlfriend. You'd think that knowing Mark has a girlfriend would ease his worries a bit but nope. 

5. He makes Rachel ditch Mark to go to a lecture on Fashion, and then snores all the way through it. And when they come back? He once again insults Rachel's career. Repeatedly. 

6. When Rachel is super busy with work, and tells him so, he decides to come in, make noise and tries to drag her co-worker into their argument.

7. When they're 'On a Break' and he hears Mark's voice on the phone, Rachel tries to explain it to him but he just slams the phone one. That wouldn't be that bad if he didn't then go on to sleep with the copy girl. 

8. Then he spends all day trying to stop Rachel from finding this out. 

9. He expects Rachel to get over it within a week because 'they were on a break'. Hey Ross, how long did it take you to get over Carol cheating on you? Or how long did it take Monica to get over Richard? More than a fucking week. 

And then in the next episode the rest of the Friends aren't trying to take sides (even thought IMO Ross is clearly in the wrong and they should be supporting Rachel). Rachel asks them to come to a catwalk show with her, and when they say no (because they've got plans with Ross) she accepts it and instead invites them to skiing at the weekend. When they say they can't hang out with Ross, Ross tries to guilt them into staying with him during his 'first weekend alone'. Ermm... What about Rachel's first weekend alone? After being cheated on? And yet they're apparently both in the wrong here. WTF Show.

Oh so I guess you haven't seen the episodes where Ross and Julie were together and rachel acted crazy and territorial as ever even though Ross and Rachel had never even dated yet . Or when Ross and Bonnie were a couple and rachel tried to get Ross to dump her by suggesting she shave her head again ..Ross wasn't perfect but they both acted childish and if rachel wanted the break , she really should have been more clear about wgat she meant 

24 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

This!

Paolo was not cute . Not sure why The show tried to portray him as if he was gods gift 

[Silverglitter]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't agree Ross cheated

Me neither. Rachel broke up with him. She even says to him later "can I be your girlfriend again" or something like that. I can't remember the exact line. And if I recall, she actually says to Monica that she and Ross just broke up.

[doesntworkonwood]

59 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Oh so I guess you haven't seen the episodes where Ross and Julie were together and rachel acted crazy and territorial as ever even though Ross and Rachel had never even dated yet . Or when Ross and Bonnie were a couple and rachel tried to get Ross to dump her by suggesting she shave her head again ..Ross wasn't perfect but they both acted childish and if rachel wanted the break , she really should have been more clear about wgat she meant 

Paolo was not cute . Not sure why The show tried to portray him as if he was gods gift 

I've seen the episodes, I literally just watched them actually. I don't agree that anything that Rachel did was on the same level as Ross. Yeah Rachel was childish, but she never messed about with Ross's job. She always supported his career and never belittled him. On their first date she was accepting of the fact that he couldn't get away from work, and he can't accept the same on their anniversary? At the end of the day it wasn't Rachel's actions that drove them to their first 'break'. It was Ross's. 

 

She had no chance to be more clear because Ross walked out and slammed the door on her. When she tried to tell him that she wanted to be together again on the phone, he slammed the phone down. I don't blame him for these actions alone, but I can't say Rachel didn't try. 

I'm on Rachel's side, but we can agree to disagree. 

 

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have no stakes in Ross/Rachel. I find them toxic, frankly. But everything you wrote is on point - until Rachel explicitly told Ross they should take a break. Ross thought she meant their fighting and asked her to get ice cream. But she clarified, a break from US.

Now Ross fucking Chloe the minute after that happened was skeevy. And I'd think twice before reuniting.

But - and this is where the debate still runs rampant today - I don't agree Ross cheated. Once Rachel said "A break from us", all bets were off. I do agree Ross was a raging douche in denigrating Rachel's career and all that entailed. Full stop. And had Rachel just used that, I'd be on her side. But she constantly harped on how Ross cheated when she was the one wanting a time out. And continued to use it until it was driven into the freaking ground. Rachel doesn't get to change the narrative to augment her hurt.

Ross hiding it was another ick move, but that seemed ridiculous since, as far as he knew, it was over.

Rachel even told Monica they "broke up". So she can't have it both ways.

I think whether or not he literally cheated by the definition isn't as relevant as Ross tried to make it out to be. I think the fact is she felt cheated on, and the only way to fix up a relationship after that is to acknowledge that feeling. I've just finished season 3 and am onto season 4, but Ross is kind of a dick to her. He literally sticks his hand into her coffee at one point. At the moment he's the one that keeps harping on about how they were on a break, and not Rachel. I mean Rachel isn't all sunshine and roses herself, but of the two (as of season 4) Ross is the one that keeps bringing it up, and I don't recall that ever changing entirely, but I admit I can't know until I finish watching the rest of the series. 

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, doesntworkonwood said:

I've seen the episodes, I literally just watched them actually. I don't agree that anything that Rachel did was on the same level as Ross. Yeah Rachel was childish, but she never messed about with Ross's job. She always supported his career and never belittled him. On their first date she was accepting of the fact that he couldn't get away from work, and he can't accept the same on their anniversary? At the end of the day it wasn't Rachel's actions that drove them to their first 'break'. It was Ross's. 

 

She had no chance to be more clear because Ross walked out and slammed the door on her. When she tried to tell him that she wanted to be together again on the phone, he slammed the phone down. I don't blame him for these actions alone, but I can't say Rachel didn't try. 

I'm on Rachel's side, but we can agree to disagree. 

 

I think whether or not he literally cheated by the definition isn't as relevant as Ross tried to make it out to be. I think the fact is she felt cheated on, and the only way to fix up a relationship after that is to acknowledge that feeling. I've just finished season 3 and am onto season 4, but Ross is kind of a dick to her. He literally sticks his hand into her coffee at one point. At the moment he's the one that keeps harping on about how they were on a break, and not Rachel. I mean Rachel isn't all sunshine and roses herself, but of the two (as of season 4) Ross is the one that keeps bringing it up, and I don't recall that ever changing entirely, but I admit I can't know until I finish watching the rest of the series. 

I'd say trying to ruin her ex bfs wedding is a bit worse than what he did with her job but yes .. let's agree to disagree .. I enjoy these conversations !

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, doesntworkonwood said:

She had no chance to be more clear because Ross walked out and slammed the door on her.

I still think a break from US was clear enough. She again told Monica they "broke up", and asked to be Ross' girlfriend AGAIN, implying she wasn't prior. And all that you list about Rachel supporting Ross may be true, but I wouldn't call getting pissed about 18 PAGES not being read in the middle of the night merely childish but pathological. Especially since she abdicated ALL blame to Ross in there, refusing any role. That's not healthy or fair.

Ross was dumb enough to agree to read it, but Rachel doing that in the first place was just...ugh.

Frankly, as toxic as these two were, maybe in the end, they did deserve each other so as not to taint anyone else. Just my take. And that will be the end of this for me so as not to go in circles. :-)  But in the end, I think Rachel added as much as Ross did in terms of immaturity, hostility, games, and childishness. Neither has any high ground to me.

[Nordly Beaumont]

4 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

3. He sends her a bunch of flowers, and a 'love bug' and a BARBERSHOP QUARTET! To her job! Who does that? It makes Rachel look majorly unprofessional. 

I think the worst line/line reading of the whole show was "My God! Can't a guy send a barbershop quartet to his girlfriend's office anymoooooooooore?"

 

4 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

7. When they're 'On a Break' and he hears Mark's voice on the phone

Bugs the crap out of me. First, because Ross is barely a foot off the dance floor, Mark is about eight feet from Rachel. Ross would barely be able to hear Rachel, much less Mark. Second, because I hate it when people talk to someone who is on the phone!

[helenamonster]

14 hours ago, JessDVD said:

I know this has been discussed to death but the thing I kept thinking when they were going on about this (and still are, I'm halfway through season 9), is that one-night stands, and as a rebound after a breakup, are portrayed as normal and expected behavior all over the show and nobody ever seems to have a problem with it except in this *one* instance. In real life, I'd have been majorly ticked in Rachel's shoes, but in the context of the show, I think her righteous indignation (especially with the letter and all that a few seasons later) is misplaced at best, and her saying she never would have done that is so not true, her character is routinely shown to do whatever SHE wants to do regardless of what standards she expects anyone else to adhere to.

Still not understanding the OTP!!! of Ross & Rachel and why the show is so obsessed with it.

I'm gonna take things completely off topic just to say that growing up watching this show constantly set up some crazy expectations for how much sex my friends and I would be having in our 20s. Maybe we're just massive lame-os but man did pretty much everyone on this show really get around. I think Chandler had probably the most realistic sexual history of anyone in the main group; even Ross seemed to go through a lot of women in later seasons. Of course we're also millennials and apparently as a generation we're having less sex? Or more sex but less meaningful relationships? I can't keep track of what I'm ruining with my avocado toast this week.

Anyway, to at least bring it back to the overall topic of this thread, I notice it much more now as an adult than I did when I was, like, twelve and thought that it was normal/expected. And I can't unnotice it and it bothers me. Sometimes they're just sex-obsessed to the point where no normal person would be. Like damn, get some other hobbies. Or a copy of Rachel's book.

7 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Paolo was not cute . Not sure why The show tried to portray him as if he was gods gift 

I think the show was pretty self-aware about Paolo. Nora has the great speech about how nobody wants to read about a Paolo.

[Bort]

1 minute ago, helenamonster said:

I think the show was pretty self-aware about Paolo. Nora has the great speech about how nobody wants to read about a Paolo.

They were aware that Paolo wasn't ideal boyfriend material. However, they were also under the impression that he was the most gorgeous man to walk the earth which... a world of no.