Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Starfish35]

These spoilers for Season 6 were in the CW press release today (TVLine)

Quote

Having spent last season trying to track down the Loom of Fate in order to bring back their slain comrades, the Legends must now save history from a foe like none they’ve encountered in the past or future. Co-captains of the time-ship Waverider Sara Lance and Ava Sharpe have dealt with monsters, time anomalies, and most recently, villains from Hell, but this season they will face something even more challenging and bizarre … space aliens!

After one of their own is abducted by a ruthless alien, this new mission becomes personal. It will take more than the combined powers of a dark magician, John Constantine; a semi-reformed arsonist, Mick Rory; historian who transforms into steel, Nate Heywood; and a brother-sister wind-totem-wielding duo, Zara Tarazi and Behrad Tarazi to save the world for a sixth time. They must recruit a new Legend, a woman who was abducted by aliens when she was a child and supposedly imbued with powers that will help the team defeat their intergalactic foes. Either that or she’s just crazy…

Edited May 14, 2020 by Starfish35

[Lady Calypso]

So next year, Space Aliens! 

And it sounds like...Charlie might be the one to get abducted?

Of course they spoil that Behrad is back with the Legends, but they also spoiled that in the trailer for this second half. I'm just glad that it seems like the actor may be promoted.

And a new female character!

[Sakura12]

Co-captains, Ugh.

I was already losing interest and making that official made me lose more. And also where is Charlie?

[Starfish35]

15 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Co-captains, Ugh.

Yeah, I wasn’t happy about that part either. 😕

[Screamnastics]

16 hours ago, shantown said:

I do find it interesting that this show, which has the most "revolving door" setup of any of the Arrowverse, is the one where people don't seem to want to leave. People speculate about Melissa Benoist wanting out after next year (a baby, husband with a job elsewhere, job prospects) and Grant Gustin has been more vocal of late about missed opportunities because of filming the Flash so much of the year in Vancouver. But aside from the occasional speculation that Dom Purcell is on the way out, everyone in the LoT cast seems to want to stick around.

I don't really see how that's the case, generally.

Melissa and Grant are leads, which is more taxing than doing an ensemble show, and Grant's been in this role for nearly seven years, which can't be said for anyone else left on any of the shows but Caity.

Despite rumored tensions between some people, I haven't seen any indication anyone else from The Flash is eager to leave. It hasn't lost too many cast members over the seasons and those they have have been the show's decision, except when Keiynan decided he didn't want to be tied down to anything for too long, Legends of Tomorrow included. Likewise, all of the cast exits in Arrow's first five seasons were writing choices, with the exception of Colton needing a break for personal issues; he was happy to return once he was better. Most of the later exits were the actors' choices, and mostly of cast members around since S1, although I'm unclear if Paul asked to leave, and there's conflicting stories about what led to Willa's exit. Batwoman is new and Black Lightning's had very few cast changes and no rumors of unhappiness.

That leaves Supergirl. To my knowledge, only four actors have asked to leave or chose not to renew their contracts.

Over on Legends of Tomorrow, three of the first four exits (Wentworth, Arthur, Victor) were definitely the actors' choice. I thought Ciara's was purely a writers' decision for years but recently rumblings suggest it might have been a mutual agreement. In any case, she has no desire now to ever return, unlike plenty of other actors across the Arrowverse who either chose to leave or were let go but are happy to make return appearances as their lives/schedules and story permit.

It's my belief that all signs point to Franz's exit not being his decision, but generally fans waffle between being adamant he asked to leave and being adamant it was a decision the producers made, depending on which argument is being employed to make the producers look good. I do recall that after initially saying he was open to returning in whatever capacity, he later hinted that he'd moved on and wasn't particularly interested, but that was nearly two years ago now.

Keiynan, as noted, wanted a break from acting altogether and to not be tied down. Do we know if Ramona was let go or asked to leave? She booked another role immediately after leaving.

There were indications Nick was unhappy being in Vancouver late last season that certainly had a lot to do with his family, but that's no different than Echo asking to be written off Arrow to spend more time with his family or Melissa's rumored reasons for supposedly wanting off Supergirl.

There's also been rumblings based on Matt's own comments to fans that he's just doing this to try to get a Constantine show back off the ground.

Brandon and Courtney wanted to stay, but Courtney was only on for two and a half seasons, and that first season she was recurring. Comparing her situation to that of Melissa, Grant, or even someone like Emily doesn't make much sense.

In fact, more than half the remaining cast have three seasons or fewer under their belt, versus The Flash having a majority still around since 2014 and an additional cast member who made sporadic appearances starting early on before becoming a regular a few seasons back.

It also helps the Legends seasons are shorter than most of the others.

[tarotx]

I hope Charlie isn't gone forever or even for a long period of time. Maisie Richardson-Sellers hasn't had a full season the last 2 seasons so I think it may be like this season but that her kidnapping is probably a cliffhanger. 

I like the idea of Zari and Behrad as a brother sister superhero duo.

Sara and Ava as official co-captains makes me think Sara may stay blind. 

[Screamnastics]

10 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Sara and Ava as official co-captains makes me think Sara may stay blind. 

If it's because she's blind, which I agree it probably will be, that will add an additional layer of insult. The ship can fly itself and there's been plenty of times the team is split up and others are left to make decisions in the field. There's no reason she needs a co-captain.

They're willing to pretend she's not a human being but some strawman Badass Chick Who Doesn't Need To See... right up until the point that would allow her to not be pushed aside to make more room for Ava.

The funniest part is all the reassuring people were doing last July that this super power story was necessary for Sara to keep up with all the magical threats. "It's a good thing! She'll have even more to do now! This was done because they want to write for her but just couldn't lately because due to circumstances totally out of their control, they had to write the type of threats no one could ever come up with a way to be challenged by a street-level hero!"

Now here we are.

[tarotx]

3 minutes ago, Screamnastics said:

If it's because she's blind, which I agree it probably will be, that will add an additional layer of insult. The ship can fly itself and there's been plenty of times the team is split up and others are left to make decisions in the field. There's no reason she needs a co-captain.

They're willing to pretend she's not a human being but some strawman Badass Chick Who Doesn't Need To See... right up until the point that would allow her to not be pushed aside to make more room for Ava.

The funniest part is all the reassuring people were doing last July that this super power story was necessary for Sara to keep up with all the magical threats. "It's a good thing! She'll have even more to do now! This was done because they want to write for her but just couldn't lately because due to circumstances totally out of their control, they had to write the type of threats no one could ever come up with a way to be challenged by a street-level hero!"

Now here we are.

Oh I agree it's insulting. They might also just do it because Sara "believes" in Ava and not even because of a handicap.

Plus the fact that Ava was only on the ship because she dates Sara. We don't see other time bureau agents on the ship. If Ava was a guy, there would be more uproar about this scenario. 

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, Screamnastics said:

If it's because she's blind, which I agree it probably will be, that will add an additional layer of insult. The ship can fly itself and there's been plenty of times the team is split up and others are left to make decisions in the field. There's no reason she needs a co-captain.

It's also ableist, even unintentionally done by the show. There's no reason why Sara would need a co-captain if she's still blind next season, because it kind of says to the audience that she needs someone who can see to be able to lead the team. They may not MEAN it that way, but that's how it'll come across. 

Though the show HAS been leading to Ava being co-captain for a couple of seasons now....I really would rather Ava stay as a member of the team...second in command, if they need her to feel more important than the others. 

(Actually, my wish is for Ava to go restart the Time Bureau offscreen and Nyssa join the team as Sara's girlfriend...but that probably won't happen). And I don't even hate Ava; I just find her character fairly boring. 

[Sakura12]

I would be okay with Ava being second in command. Like I thought Sara was getting OG Zari ready for. But Ava just swoops in and automatically gets to be Captain. 

Ava's a boring character because we don't see her learning or earning anything. She's just handed validation from everyone. If Ava wants to be more than a clone, then she should learn to put in the work and start at the bottom like everyone else has. She should just be a member of the team. Sara's never needed a co-captain before. She doesn't need one now. Even if she stays blind. Its not like she had that much trouble walking around. They didn't even give her a walking stick. Which it would been cool to use her bo staff as one. 

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Ava's a boring character because we don't see her learning or earning anything. She's just handed validation from everyone. If Ava wants to be more than a clone, then she should learn to put in the work and start at the bottom like everyone else has. She should just be a member of the team. Sara's never needed a co-captain before. She doesn't need one now. Even if she stays blind. Its not like she had that much trouble walking around. They didn't even give her a walking stick. Which it would been cool to use her bo staff as one. 

Do you know how much fun it would have been if the show focused more on Ava as a Clone past that reveal episode? Because that could have been a lot of fun to explore more of that aspect and I feel like they focused on the wrong parts of that storyline, especially now.

[shantown]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So next year, Space Aliens! 

I wonder if they'll reference Supergirl at all. For Sara, Mick, and Nate at least aliens aren't anything new.
 

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Co-captains, Ugh.

I don't even mind Ava, but I really don't like this decision.

[Sakura12]

16 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Do you know how much fun it would have been if the show focused more on Ava as a Clone past that reveal episode? Because that could have been a lot of fun to explore more of that aspect and I feel like they focused on the wrong parts of that storyline, especially now.

They should've focused more on the clone part. That is the only thing interesting about her. 

[Starfish35]

I would be fine with Ava being 2IC.  Both of Sara’s prior (unofficial) 2ICs are gone now (Jax, OG Zari), and even though I’m not Ava’s biggest fan, she would work fine in that role.  The whole “co-captains” thing is just immensely stupid, even if Sara does stay blind.  As others have pointed out, she doesn’t need to see to be the captain.  The more I think about it, the angrier I’m getting. 😡 I honestly don’t understand why they have lost all interest in writing anything substantial for Sara at this point.  Even this blindness/seer sight storyline has so far not amounted to much.  

At this point, I’m only staying with the show for Caity and Tala.  And I’ll probably stay with it until they end up kicking Caity off like they did Brandon.  But I’m just so frustrated right now. 😭

[Aeryn13]

Ava had okay moments this Season but the writers penchant for pushing her down throats is what makes for the annoying moments for me. "See how awesome and interesting she is, see...you see."

This insta co-captain thing is just another version. I knew it annoyed me when her image was the first one in the new credits. Get your infatuation with that character done in your spare time.

It's the same with pushing Nate as this stud dude-bro and romsntic hero. All his good character moments are when they not do that.

Happy about Behrad. 

 

[lurker22]

IMO, Ava has not earned the title of co-captain. But they were already preparing for it last episode by using Sara to say Ava would be better suited to lead the team since Sara can't see out in the field. And the speed at which Gideon (and Charlie?) called Ava "Captain" while Sara was lying there in a coma. And how they have all the Legends praise how great Ava was even though she made all kinds of mistakes leading the team. I'll much sooner acknowledge Rip as Sara's co-captain when he returned in S2 then Ava now, but I'm glad the writers made the right choice then. Unfortunately, things are different now.

Maybe people may say we should wait and see how things turn out, as this season isn't even over yet. But I would say that is not necessary. After the past 3 seasons, I know any misgivings I have about Sara being pushed into the background in favor of Ava, or have significant events in Sara's life ignored and not explored like they were for the other newer characters like John or Zari, will turn out to be true. Because that's the way things have progressed for the past 3 seasons, there's no reason to think things will change now.

[Sakura12]

25 minutes ago, lurker22 said:

IMO, Ava has not earned the title of co-captain

Ava has never earned anything ever. She was just handed titles because she programmed too. How long has she even been alive? 3 to 5 years? She's a an Adult toddler. 

Sara had to earn the Captain title by proving herself as a team member first and showing why she was a good leader. Ava just walks on the ship, handled the title of Captain and everyone just accepts it. I don't even know why since Ava was calling them all idiots and not trusting them just last year and that includes Sara. When she lost her job suddenly they are her friends.

[Starfish35]

I started out writing this post in the episode thread, but decided to move it over here because part of it has to do with the season six spoilers.

If I didn’t know better (and after watching this episode, I’m suddenly not so sure I do anymore), I’d think they were getting ready to write Sara out. I mean, yes, of course, they’re going to bring everyone back to life.  Obviously.  But still.  That was a lot of set-up and goodbyes and torch-passing for what everyone knows is going to be a temporary death.  After that, I would not be shocked to find out that Sara gets written out at the end of the season.  OR.  That she ends up being the one abducted by aliens and they end up spending the season looking for her, effectively writing Caity out, but without having to deal with the outrage of killing or breaking up Avalance.  I can see it happening so easily.  They’ve spent so much time this season setting up Ava as leader that, yeah, I’m now very fearful for Sara.  Someone said that Caity has said she’s not going anywhere, and the season six press includes her, but I’m starting to wonder if maybe that is all just a huge cover so we will be super shocked when she’s written out, or ends up being the one abducted.  

Maybe I’m just sleep deprived and paranoid right now.  I don’t know. 😢 I hope so.  But the more I think about it, the more Sara being the one to be abducted fits.  Which...ok.  If she still stays a series regular, this could be good, and be a way to give her the storyline we’ve been wanting for her.  But....it could also very easily be Rip and Season 2 all over again.  

Edited May 20, 2020 by Starfish35
Because I said “suddenly” a few too many times. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[Sakura12]

Being in the press release doesn't mean much. Especially with Caity and Stephen bringing up Arrow season 3 recently. Sara was all over that, including going to SDCC and then killed in the first episode. 

I was thinking Sara could be the one abducted too. That would be the perfect solution for the writers. They wouldn't have to think of excuses of not writing for Sara, they keep Avalance alive by showing Ava being worried about her and the best for them would be their favorite gets to be the full time Captain. Then they have CL direct a couple of episodes to keep her happy. 

I can even hear the writers excuses being that we already saw Sara deal with Aliens so we don't have to see it again, now we will see how Captain Ava handles it. 

I'm thinking the Legends are not going go be in the next crossover if its still Batwoman/Superman and Lois. But that might be changed now with the recent news of RR quitting. So they might not have that excuse to write Sara out. 

[tarotx]

If Sara is out next season, I'm out. Even if she comes back. To have someone else take up Sara's "life" while morning Sara, for a second time will be bad enough. But I'm not a fan of Ava. And Mick will be the only original and he won't have a big role because he never does. 

[shantown]

I hate to think they’d pull the same s#!t on Caity a second time where they hype up her future just to brutally kill her, but I also could see it happening for shock value... and to save them the money. Ugh.  Agreed that if Caity’s out, so am I. Or maybe we’ll get lucky and this idea of Ava being the captain will get dropped like every other story she’s had (time bureau, clone, etc). Fingers crossed.

[UNOSEZ]

Or.. Before she's kidnapped she sets up a protocol with Gideon that of something truly bad happens to her.. Gideon goes and finds someone who could lead and knows the ship... Then Gideon goes and finds Jax.. Now a happy family man and gets him on board to fix things and find his big sis Sara

[lurker22]

Wow, now it does seem like Sara could be the one to be abducted, just like Rip in S2. It would solve the writers' problem of having to write for Sara, and allow them to write all sorts of stories for Ava. And it wouldn't even be the first time Caity has to promote a show she's not in and pretend she's excited for it.

When it was clear that Sara could die in this episode, the thought that popped into my mind was this is how the writers are giving Ava "(wo)man-pain". You know, when writers like to kill off a male lead's loved ones so they could show said lead's angst, except this time it's a woman, but same concept.

[statsgirl]

I'd far rather that Jax lead the ship than Ava. But for some reason, the show-runners seem to have a deep and inexplicable love for Ava. It's like Puck put the essence of the flower in their eyes and when they woke, Ava was what they saw.

[darkestboy]

Regarding that press release, not surprised that Behrad will be back and happy that both him and Zari will wield the air totem.

I love Constantine but with HBO Max planning their own Justice League Dark, I'm almost surprised that he's still going to be around next season.

Will Charlie, Astra and Gary make it next season?

Not liking the idea of Sara going missing if it's happening and I would have added a new male character as well.

I assume Season 6 will have 15 episodes or slightly less like this season has had.

[Starfish35]

Legends: Marc Guggenheim Previews 'Inventive' Trip Through TV History, Dominic Purcell's Khan Impression

Quote

Legends of Tomorrow has gone to the past, to the future, and now it’s going inside the tube: On Tuesday’s episode (The CW, 9/8c), Charlie scatters her Waverider teammates throughout various TV shows to protect them from her sisters’ wrath.

The installment marks the television directorial debut of former Arrow EP/current Legends consulting producer Marc Guggenheim, who was given the challenge of not only creating homages to Friends, Star Trek and Downton Abbey, but also had to figure out how not to crack up while shooting the hilarious hour. (Believe me, that’s a very tall task when you’re watching Dominic Purcell channel Khan!)

Below, Guggenheim details the old-school touches he brought to the “inventive” and heartfelt episode, and previews the difficult choice the Legends will face.

********

TVLINE | What can you say about the TV show parodies that we’re going to see in this episode?
It’s Friends, Star Trek [and] Downton Abbey, with a bit of Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood thrown in for good measure. What was so much fun about working on these little homages was we shot each one true to the spirit of those individual shows. For example, for Friends, the art department created a set that was like the proscenium, multi-camera set for a half-hour comedy, and we shot it like a multi-cam half-hour. We had three cameras working, and we staged it like you would stage an episode of Friends. With Downton Abbey, we favored long lenses, and when we’re in the kitchen with the servants, we go handheld.

With Star Trek, it’s a lot of dollies and sort of dramatic push-ins. So we really tried to not just make it look like the individual shows, but really make them feel [like the shows]. In fact, with Star Trip, we even shot the spaceships practically. We did miniatures instead of our normal CGI. So we built a Romulan ship, and we built the Faterider, and then we did a whole day of shooting against green screen. We did the old-school technique that, I think, ILM developed for Star Wars, where you move the camera, not the ships, and it creates the illusion that the ship is moving. So we brought out all the old-school techniques.

TVLINE | When you’re directing an episode like this that is so humorous, is it hard to keep a straight face on set? Was there a particular moment that you were just like dying?
So, so many times! Honestly, so many times. The truth of the matter is, a lot of times, if you looked over at me, I had both my hands over my mouth to make sure that I wouldn’t be audibly laughing. Or even, a lot of times, the actors are so great, you want to just yell out, “Yes!” or exclaim just how good this is, like you want to kind of squeal with delight. So it’s a quality problem, but it’s definitely one of the harder aspects of directing a show like this.

TVLINE | I couldn’t decide what was more wonderful: Caity Lotz’s Shatner impression or Dominic Purcell as Khan.
The funny thing about Dom is — and I think they’re both amazing — he’s actually never seen Wrath of Khan. So what you’re seeing there is his impression of my impression of Ricardo Montalbán. Everyone in the cast really absorbed and took to their parts like a duck to water, but Dom, he’s got the Khan bare chest outfit with the long, flowing hair, and he was just having the time of his life. It was really great to see. That’s the great thing about the Legends cast is there’s nothing off-limits. They tackle everything with absolute abandon.

TVLINE | As amusing as this episode is, it’s not just a one-off, funny Episode of the Week. How does it move the story arcs forward?
I think the last three episodes of the season are kind of a trilogy. Episode 13 leads into [Episode] 14, [which] leads into [Episode] 15. Without giving anything away, it says a lot about the relationship that Charlie has with the Legends and the relationship the Legends have with themselves. And in this episode, all the characters have to make a very sort of personal choice. It’s the classic hero’s journey choice of, “Do I live It’s a Wonderful Life, or do I accept reality and all the burdens and consequences that that brings?”

Edited May 25, 2020 by Starfish35

[lurker22]

Legends of Tomorrow EP Marc Guggenheim Teases the Team's New TV Stardom

[Starfish35]

15 minutes ago, lurker22 said:

Legends of Tomorrow EP Marc Guggenheim Teases the Team's New TV Stardom

I’m eager to see Caity’s Shatner impression. 😄  This part, though, has me nervous.  I know....it could mean absolutely anything, but.....😳

Quote

Can you tease your favorite moment or scene from the finale?

I can't spoil it, but there's a moment towards the end that I would say is probably one of the most emotional moments of the whole series, and I thought the cast just really acted the hell out of it -- one cast member in particular, but I can't say who without coming dangerously close to spoiling it.

[lurker22]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I’m eager to see Caity’s Shatner impression. 😄  This part, though, has me nervous.  I know....it could mean absolutely anything, but.....😳

Caity's Shatner's impression is probably going to be hilarious, since 2 reviewers have brought it up so far. It would be even better if Shatner tweets about it, lol. I remember him live-tweeting CW shows, including Legends, a few years ago. 😀

Guggenheim tends to overhype stuff, so I'll just take it with a pinch of salt.

[tv echo]

Another MG interview...

Arrowverse EP Marc Guggenheim on Making His Directorial Debut with Tonight’s TV-Themed ‘Legends of Tomorrow’
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      MAY 26, 2020
https://collider.com/legends-of-tomorrow-season-5-episode-14-marc-guggenheim-interview/ 

How would you describe this episode, entitled “The One Where We’re Trapped on TV,” to preview it?
GUGGENHEIM: The Legends find themselves scattered across various television shows, and have to find their way back to the “real world.”
*  *  *
Were the four TV shows that the Legends are trapped in always the shows, or did any of them have to change, at all?
GUGGENHEIM: They were always scripted. I think in the writers’ room, there were other shows considered, but the script, itself, did not change that much, from the very first draft. There were really no significant changes. There were moments, here and there, to dial in or to connect the logic or emotion on, but it was always these four shows. We just had to dive in and go full speed ahead.

Edited May 26, 2020 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Legends: Zari and Behrad Twists Will Lead to 'Very Emotional' Season Finale

Quote

Below, the episode’s director, consulting producer Marc Guggenheim, previews how Zari and Behrad’s returns bring about “one of the most emotional moments of the series” and reveals whether both Zaris can stick around.

TVLINE | There are a couple of major twists in this episode, in particular with what happens with Behrad and Zari 1.0. What kind of ramifications will those have moving forward?
Certainly, the big thing that this season has set up is the idea that Behrad and Zari 1.0 cannot coexist. And at the end of this episode, we see that we not only have Behrad and Zari 1.0, 2.0 is back as well. I think one of the big cliffhangers that [Episode] 14 leaves leading into [Episode] 15 is: How is all this going to resolve itself, especially in light of the rules that have been set down over the course of the past season? Without spoiling the finale, I’ll say it gets to a veryemotional place, and a place that’s, quite frankly, really earned by all the characters, both 1.0, 2.0 and Behrad, and all the trials and tribulations that they’ve been through. It leads to, quite frankly, one of the most emotional moments of the series, in my opinion.

TVLINE | Is there a scenario in which the show could keep both Zaris, or is that too much of a technical challenge to pull off every week? I think that almost killed Tatiana Maslany on Orphan Black.
[Laughs] That’s really more a question for the writers. I will say that it is very technically difficult to duplicate a character. It’s something, quite frankly, that we’ve been doing since Season 1 of the show. So we know how to do it, but it takes a lot of time. For [Episode] 14, I used what we call the Technodolly, and man, it’s a cool piece of equipment, but it is not easy to use. It is very time-consuming, and it’s expensive.

TVLINE | Are there any ramifications for the Legends remembering the two different timelines now, mentally, emotionally, physically? There are two different worlds existing in their heads…
I think the consequences really focus on Behrad and whether or not he can coexist now with his sister. The finale is not all in the Legends’ heads, in terms of struggling with carrying the two different timelines. In many ways, I think, if anyone is suited to doing that, it’s the Legends. They have some experience with this. But the challenge for them is with these things established, how are we going to be able to move forward? How can these people, who we said can’t coexist with each other, coexist?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Starfish35

[Lady Calypso]

Bringing next season's press release  back up because of the development over the last couple of episodes. Now it looks like Charlie may leave at the end of next week's finale, Astra will join the team and she could be the one captured by space aliens. They have set Astra up to join the team permanently and, unless their actual plan is to have Astra sacrifice herself next week, I have to assume that she's here to stay. 

Also, an interview about next week's finale hints that the Zari 1.0 and 2.0 situation won't be so easily resolved with the Loom.

I got excited over the prospect of two Zaris and double Tala Ashe, but it seems like I'm very quickly back to my theory of a combined Zari 1.0 and 2.0 to make NuZari. 

[tarotx]

So does it look like Sara will be the one abducted? Or is that just some kind of fate residuals since I think that is Sara's punk look from Charlie's first episode?

[shantown]

Putting my guess in now that Behrad and Zari 1.0 leave to live a normal life together and Zari 2.0 stays on the ship. 

[Starfish35]

53 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Now it looks like Charlie may leave at the end of next week's finale

I had wondered what was going to happen with Charlie.  Maisie wasn’t mentioned in the press release but that doesn’t always mean anything.  

[Oreo2234]

I was curious about her absence from the season 6 press release too. I will miss Charlie if she leaves. I hope its Maisie's decision if she is. I know she had a role on something else which is why she was missing in the early episodes. Maybe she wants more time to do other things. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Oreo2234

[lurker22]

William Shatner did not disappoint, lol. He retweeted Caity's tweet to watch the episode. 😀

I like Maisie and Charlie, but they haven't done much with her for 2 seasons until the Clothos SL. I don't know if the writers know what to do with her after the Clothos SL.

Edited May 27, 2020 by lurker22

[Starfish35]

13 minutes ago, lurker22 said:

I like Maisie and Charlie, but they haven't done much with her for 2 seasons until the Clothos SL. I don't know if the writers know what to do with her after the Clothos SL.

Yeah that’s the thing.  They obviously like Maisie, enough to invent a way for her to stay on the show when Amaya’s storyline had come to an end, but then after Legends of To-Meow-Meow she kind of faded into the background until this Clotho storyline kicked into high gear.  So.....I don’t know.  I really like Maisie and Charlie, and I would hate to see her go, but I wouldn’t be surprised.  Sadly.  😢

[Starfish35]

6 hours ago, tarotx said:

So does it look like Sara will be the one abducted? Or is that just some kind of fate residuals since I think that is Sara's punk look from Charlie's first episode?

I caught that too.  I’m not sure.  Like you said, the outfit isn’t right.  

I’m still bracing myself for Sara to be the one abducted.  I hope I’m wrong, and I’ll be so relieved if I am, but I’d rather expect the worst and not get it.  😂  They’re hitting this “co-captains” thing so very hard (I mean, really, we get it already, how many times do you need to say it?) that I still feel like it’s leading up to something.  Legends is usually a bit more subtle than this (no, seriously, stop laughing 😂).

I don’t have a clue how they’re going to resolve the Zari 1.0/2.0 dilemma.  I’m not even sure what I would prefer to be honest.  Maybe a merging of the two Zaris, but then that would probably lead to an awkward Nate/Zari/John triangle, and....no. 😬  

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I’m still bracing myself for Sara to be the one abducted.  I hope I’m wrong, and I’ll be so relieved if I am, but I’d rather expect the worst and not get it.  😂  They’re hitting this “co-captains” thing so very hard (I mean, really, we get it already, how many times do you need to say it?) that I still feel like it’s leading up to something.  Legends is usually a bit more subtle than this (no, seriously, stop laughing 😂).

I just assumed, with them mentioning everyone but Charlie and now Astra in the press release, that it meant that one of them would be abducted. Since they spoiled that Behrad would be alive before this episode aired, I would assume that they wouldn't hesitate to include Astra in the press release as well. And since it seems like Charlie's story is done, that's why I jumped to Astra being the kidnapped Legend. They've set up Astra/Behrad now as well, and I'd be quite surprised if Astra wasn't part of next season as a Legend. 

But, if Astra is not going to be part of the Legends next season for whatever reason, then I guess Sara is the next option. Though that would mean she gets a storyline outside of Ava, so I'd be quite shocked if she was kidnapped 😉 

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I don’t have a clue how they’re going to resolve the Zari 1.0/2.0 dilemma.  I’m not even sure what I would prefer to be honest.  Maybe a merging of the two Zaris, but then that would probably lead to an awkward Nate/Zari/John triangle, and....no. 😬  

I have to assume they ARE heading this direction, and it's such a Legends thing to do. I'm not thrilled with the idea of a love triangle, but they're clearly setting up the idea of Zari/John and I can't imagine them suddenly dropping that for Zari/Nate...and vice versa. 

[tarotx]

Sara being abducted wouldn't be about giving Sara her own storyline. I won't be surprised if Caity ends up directing the first or second episode of the season. So to explain Sara's absence with Caity busy. When Sara comes back she probably will have no memories when she returns but comes back. Similar to Rip. But the main object will feel like it's to make Ava sole captain. Imo. For me this making Ava Captain just feels similar to what happened with Sara giving Laurel her Canary jacket and then Sara dying and Laurel taking up the Canary mantle.

And the thought of a Nate/Zari/John love triangle is super annoying. Zari&Nate never worked as a relationship. And Zari&John sparked right away. 

[tarotx]

14 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah that’s the thing.  They obviously like Maisie, enough to invent a way for her to stay on the show when Amaya’s storyline had come to an end, but then after Legends of To-Meow-Meow she kind of faded into the background until this Clotho storyline kicked into high gear.  So.....I don’t know.  I really like Maisie and Charlie, and I would hate to see her go, but I wouldn’t be surprised.  Sadly.  😢

I originally assumed an abduction would just be a reason to have Maisie gone the first few episodes of the season. She has always had a more limited role in the beginning of the season and she was just gone the beginning of s5. I don't think Maise has a full season contract but one similar to Arthur Darvill 's in season 2.  Now I think (fear) it will be Sara and it's to raise Ava and limit Sara some more. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by tarotx

[lurker22]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But, if Astra is not going to be part of the Legends next season for whatever reason, then I guess Sara is the next option. Though that would mean she gets a storyline outside of Ava, so I'd be quite shocked if she was kidnapped 😉

Nah, Sara getting abducted will be all about Ava trying to save her. Just like Sara's blindness is so Ava can be officially made Captain.

2 hours ago, tarotx said:

I won't be surprised if Caity ends up directing the first or second episode of the season.

It crossed my mind too when Caity said during her podcast with Stephen that they may have trouble getting directors up to Vancouver now. I could see them letting Caity direct the first episode since she's there anyway, and this gives them more time to get other directors. Although Legends isn't returning in Jan and they may film later, so maybe that would change.

I now think Guggenheim's favorite emotional scene from the finale is the exit of either Zari 1.0 or 2.0. I don't think we'll be able to keep both of them. Maybe Zari 2.0 goes back home since she never intended to stay anyway, especially now that Behrad is alive.

Edited May 27, 2020 by lurker22

[Sakura12]

If Sara is the one abducted so Ava can become full Captain, I'm done. Ava is not an interesting character to watch and she's not the right person to lead the Legends. She's barely capable of leading herself. 

I'd rather OG Zari be back and become the Captain. She's far more competent and actually earned it. 

[tarotx]

I'm just a natural worrywart and read worst case scenarios into everything. I hope this is just that tendency in hyperdrive. If not, I will also be done with the show. I don't want to watch Ava be A captain let alone full captain. Zari, either version, is more of a leader.

[MarkHB]

John can't be part of a love triangle, it's completely against his character. The only time he cares that much about a relationship is if he thinks it's his fault that the other person got killed. Arthurwise fook it, thur's other fish in the sea, mate.

[darkestboy]

Constantine doesn't work in long term relationships so I'd rather they didn't go further with him and Zari in that capacity.

[tv echo]

'Legends of Tomorrow’: Marc Guggenheim on the Show’s Infinite Possibilities
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      MAY 26, 2020
https://collider.com/legends-of-tomorrow-the-one-where-were-trapped-on-tv-marc-guggenheim-interview/ 

Quote

During this 1-on-1 phone interview with Collider, Arrow-verse executive producer Marc Guggenheim, who made his directorial debut with Episode 514 (“The One Where We’re Trapped on TV”), talked about working with the cast to keep their characterizations consistent throughout the episode, the ramifications that these events will have for Charlie (Maisie Richardson-Sellers), what happens with Zari (Tala Ashe) now, battling space aliens in Season 6, the list of eras and historical figures they’re still trying to work into the show, and whether there’s anything story wise that Legends can’t figure out a way to make work.
*  *  *
One of the biggest surprises in this episode is the fact that you brought the old Zari back, combined the twos Zaris, and then split them in two again. How will that work, going forward? Will the twos Zaris exist separately now?
GUGGENHEIM: That’s certainly one of the cliffhangers that the end of this episode sets up for the finale. The writers have established that Zari 1.0 and 2.0 can’t co-exist, and Zari and Behrad can’t co-exist, so suffice it to say, the show is not big enough for the three of them. I don’t wanna spoil what I think is a really, really great moment and a great outcome in the finale.

It’s also fun that we’ve gotten a little bit of a tease for what Season 6 will be, knowing that there’ll be battling space aliens. What layer does that add to a show that is already insane?
GUGGENHEIM: I’ll tell you, when I heard that that was the plan for Season 6, I was like, “That’s just so awesome!” I love it. I love the fact that every season finale has set up the next subsequent season. It’s funny, you would never compare Legends of Tomorrow with Sons of Anarchy, but the one thing they have in common is that both shows had a tendency to do that, and I’ve always loved that construction. So, I’m really excited. Also, knowing what the writers have planned for Season 6, just when you think the show cannot get any zanier or crazier, somehow the writers figure out a way to make it happen.

Are there any eras or historical figures that you’re still hoping to get to see explored in the show, at any point next season?
GUGGENHEIM: If you were to travel back in time, and look at the whiteboard in the Legends writers’ room, back in Season 1, you would have seen a whole list of historical figures and time periods that the show hasn’t gotten to yet. But every year, we tick some of them off. There are still a whole host of time periods on the show’s bucket list, and it wouldn’t surprise me, at all, to visit at least one of them, next season.
*  *  *
I didn’t know how the show could get weirder, but it did, and I’m sure it will again.
GUGGENHEIM: It probably will, I can guarantee you.

Edited May 29, 2020 by tv echo

[Delphi]

While the history of fucking Sara over is colossal,  I also think Caity has been around the block awhile now and would be very candid if she was getting fucked over or pushed out.   She didn't have the clout in season 2 of Arrow that she has now,  at this point she's been on legends five years,  guest starred on every show numerous times and has gone on record when she doesn't like what's going on.   I think she'd warn fans if her character was doomed, she knows how much she's appreciated by the fans. 

[lurker22]

I don't think Caity will be allowed to say anything if Sara were to leave the show. Brandon knew he was written out before the season started filming, we know he isn't happy about it, but he still didn't say anything, and was very enthusiatic about promoting Superman for the crossover at SDCC. Kinda like when Caity had to "very enthusiatically" promote Arrow S3.