Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Proteus]

https://ew.com/comic-con/2019/07/18/legends-of-tomorrow-season-5-mockumentary-premiere-zari/

“That’s DC Comics,” says executive producer Phil Klemmer, pointing across the street at the towering building that houses the publisher’s offices, just a stone’s throw from the Legends of Tomorrow’s writers room at Burbank Studios. “They look down on us, both figuratively and literally.”

This joke — which Klemmer cracked with a chuckle as we stepped outside for the writers’ daily post-lunch walk around the lot mid-June — is classic Legends, irreverent and self-deprecating in equal measure. This show has poked fun at its network’s “dare to defy” slogan; had a character say “hard pass” to last year’s annual Arrowverse crossover; and ended its fourth season with three of its D-list superheroes dressing up as the titular heroes of Arrow, The Flash, and Supergirl because they realized the world they were trying to save wouldn’t listen to them since they weren’t as popular as the Trinity.

In fact, Legends of Tomorrow — which is featured on one of the five Arrowverse covers gracing the latest issue of Entertainment Weekly — has fully embraced the fact that it might not be as traditional as its caped brethren on The CW. “We’re all more comfortable being underdogs,” executive producer Grainne Godfree tells EW. “It’s like the nobility of [The Big Lebowski’s] The Dude. He’s a slacker, but he’s also a hero. We all like those slacker heroes.”

Carlos Serrao for EW

The gloriously insane CW super-series is centered on a band of lovable screwups who attempt to defend history from a coterie of threats, including a murderous unicorn, an immortal tyrant, and a dragon demon. The subversive dramedy’s cheeky sense of alienation from the rest of the Arrowverse is at least partially due to the lukewarm critical reception to its relatively conservative and uneven first season, which actually strengthened the cast and writers’ bond. “It’s definitely been us against the world,” Caity Lotz, who plays Sara Lance/White Canary, says with a laugh. “We’re so lucky there is that family element within the cast and writers. They take care of us, which is really nice.”

In the wake of that uneven first season — which followed the titular time travelers as they chased after Vandal Savage (Casper Crump) — the producers took a hard look at the show to figure out what worked and what didn’t. “Season 1 was kind of like the out of town part of a Broadway show and you have a chance to make it better,” says executive producer Greg Berlanti. “[The producers] really embraced the thing that’s different about TV than almost any other visual storytelling form: it changes as it goes.” In season 2, Legends swerved into the wackiness of its premise — a bunch of nobody heroes jumping through time — and that impulse has only grown in the ensuing seasons, leading to the show’s magum weird opus: The season 3 finale battle between the demon Mallus and Beebo, a giant blue Tickle-Me-Elmo-like toy that the Legends formed like Voltron. “When we make those kinds of decisions, there’s this notion in the back of our minds of, ‘People are going to hate this stuff,’” says Klemmer. “You start building the armor and being like, ‘If they don’t like, they don’t get it. They’re not sophisticated enough!’ But then when people do like it, it’s so surprising because, again, we, like the Legends, never expect people to accept us.”

But accept them people have. The reviews have improved as the show has become more idiosyncratic and zany (see: the Puppets of Tomorrow and the Regency-era England-set Bollywood musical number). In December 2018, halfway through season 4, Legendslanded on several critics’ year-end-lists— and it’s now frequently hailed as one of TV’s best superhero shows. “We don’t play it safe. The show isn’t a traditional, ‘Let’s figure out how to package this and sell it to the masses.’ I feel like it’s really authentic and original,” says Lotz. Adds Berlanti, “When I watch Legends, it reminds me the most of any of our shows, of reading the Marv Wolfman comics when I was a kid. It’s funny. It’s zany. It’s still emotional. It’s not too earnest in the wrong ways.” This praise, though, has actually created a problem for the writers as they head into the fifth season (airing in 2020).

“If we become popular, are we going to lose our mojo?” wonders Godfree, explaining that the show’s season 5 premiere is a mockumentary that sees the Legends adjusting to their newfound fame after publicly saving the world in the heartwarming season 4 finale. “They’re famous for the first time and some of them are loving it. You have Sara, the stalwart captain who’s the most suspicious of this [and] is not into it.”

“We’re interested in how fame affects people [in season 5],” says Klemmer. “I really like the idea of tempting the Legends, that they’re still susceptible. Even though they sort of get over themselves after [the first episode,] I think you could always be tempted by the promise of getting to be a singular franchise-driving superhero.”

Katie Yu/The CW

The season’s concern with fame also relates to the encores — a.k.a. reincarnated bad guys of history that season 5 bad big Astra (Olivia Swann) released back into the world of the living at the end of last season — the Legends will face.  “It’s like these people who were power hungry and attention-obsessed and, you know, wanted to rule the world. It’s definitely similar to sort of fame culture we have today,” says EP Keto Shimizu, with Godfree adding, “They have that desire for fame and notoriety, as opposed to the Legends who, because this is an ensemble show, understand the simple joy that comes from family.”

Of course, the season’s other main concern is the Zari (Tala Ashe) of it all. In the season 4 finale, Zari disappeared from the Legends and was replaced by her brother Behrad Tarazi (Shayan Sobhian) because defeating Neron erased the dystopian future from whence she came, which means her brother never died and she never got the air totem. Thankfully, that wasn’t the last we’ve seen of Ashe’s heroine, and the show will explore her relationship with Behrad in season 5. “That’s the one energy we’ve never had,” Klemmer says of their sibling dynamic. “That seems like it’s going to be fun.”

As Klemmer and Godfree focus on season 5, Shimizu is currently working on the forthcoming crossover, “Crisis on Infinite Earths,” with the Arrowverse’s other writers. Says Shimizu, “I’m there making sure that, no matter what happens in the massive craziness in the crossover, we have the characters that are participating in [‘Crisis’] land in a very particular place.” Knowing Legends, that place will probably be wonderfully weird.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Proteus

[birdsflyinghigh]

16 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

So it's a repeat of what they already did with Rip. It would be more interesting for strict rule follower Ava to have to follow Sara's anything goes lead. We've seen Sara follow the lead of others many times. How would Ava handle Sara calling the shots? Plus its Sara's ship she should be calling the shots, Ava's the guest. So I really hope it only lasts an ep or 2. 

Like I said, Sara has always called the shots. You see the missions Ava goes on with the Legends, it’s Sara who tells them the plan. Ava may have suggestions, like others have as well, but she still goes along with it. She even acknowledged how Sara does her plans, she’s not oblivious to it. In that sense, everyone’s a guest since it’s Sara’s ship, right? I think no matter how it goes, there’s going to be judgement either way, so why bother lol. 

[Sakura12]

The rest of the people on the ship are on team Legends. So no they are not guests. Ava is not a member of the Legends therefore she's a guest. 

[birdsflyinghigh]

51 minutes ago, Proteus said:

https://ew.com/comic-con/2019/07/18/legends-of-tomorrow-season-5-mockumentary-premiere-zari/

“That’s DC Comics,” says executive producer Phil Klemmer, pointing across the street at the towering building that houses the publisher’s offices, just a stone’s throw from the Legends of Tomorrow’s writers room at Burbank Studios. “They look down on us, both figuratively and literally.”

This joke — which Klemmer cracked with a chuckle as we stepped outside for the writers’ daily post-lunch walk around the lot mid-June — is classic Legends, irreverent and self-deprecating in equal measure. This show has poked fun at its network’s “dare to defy” slogan; had a character say “hard pass” to last year’s annual Arrowverse crossover; and ended its fourth season with three of its D-list superheroes dressing up as the titular heroes of Arrow, The Flash, and Supergirl because they realized the world they were trying to save wouldn’t listen to them since they weren’t as popular as the Trinity.

In fact, Legends of Tomorrow — which is featured on one of the five Arrowverse covers gracing the latest issue of Entertainment Weekly — has fully embraced the fact that it might not be as traditional as its caped brethren on The CW. “We’re all more comfortable being underdogs,” executive producer Grainne Godfree tells EW. “It’s like the nobility of [The Big Lebowski’s] The Dude. He’s a slacker, but he’s also a hero. We all like those slacker heroes.”

Carlos Serrao for EW

The gloriously insane CW super-series is centered on a band of lovable screwups who attempt to defend history from a coterie of threats, including a murderous unicorn, an immortal tyrant, and a dragon demon. The subversive dramedy’s cheeky sense of alienation from the rest of the Arrowverse is at least partially due to the lukewarm critical reception to its relatively conservative and uneven first season, which actually strengthened the cast and writers’ bond. “It’s definitely been us against the world,” Caity Lotz, who plays Sara Lance/White Canary, says with a laugh. “We’re so lucky there is that family element within the cast and writers. They take care of us, which is really nice.”

In the wake of that uneven first season — which followed the titular time travelers as they chased after Vandal Savage (Casper Crump) — the producers took a hard look at the show to figure out what worked and what didn’t. “Season 1 was kind of like the out of town part of a Broadway show and you have a chance to make it better,” says executive producer Greg Berlanti. “[The producers] really embraced the thing that’s different about TV than almost any other visual storytelling form: it changes as it goes.” In season 2, Legends swerved into the wackiness of its premise — a bunch of nobody heroes jumping through time — and that impulse has only grown in the ensuing seasons, leading to the show’s magum weird opus: The season 3 finale battle between the demon Mallus and Beebo, a giant blue Tickle-Me-Elmo-like toy that the Legends formed like Voltron. “When we make those kinds of decisions, there’s this notion in the back of our minds of, ‘People are going to hate this stuff,’” says Klemmer. “You start building the armor and being like, ‘If they don’t like, they don’t get it. They’re not sophisticated enough!’ But then when people do like it, it’s so surprising because, again, we, like the Legends, never expect people to accept us.”

But accept them people have. The reviews have improved as the show has become more idiosyncratic and zany (see: the Puppets of Tomorrow and the Regency-era England-set Bollywood musical number). In December 2018, halfway through season 4, Legendslanded on several critics’ year-end-lists— and it’s now frequently hailed as one of TV’s best superhero shows. “We don’t play it safe. The show isn’t a traditional, ‘Let’s figure out how to package this and sell it to the masses.’ I feel like it’s really authentic and original,” says Lotz. Adds Berlanti, “When I watch Legends, it reminds me the most of any of our shows, of reading the Marv Wolfman comics when I was a kid. It’s funny. It’s zany. It’s still emotional. It’s not too earnest in the wrong ways.” This praise, though, has actually created a problem for the writers as they head into the fifth season (airing in 2020).

“If we become popular, are we going to lose our mojo?” wonders Godfree, explaining that the show’s season 5 premiere is a mockumentary that sees the Legends adjusting to their newfound fame after publicly saving the world in the heartwarming season 4 finale. “They’re famous for the first time and some of them are loving it. You have Sara, the stalwart captain who’s the most suspicious of this [and] is not into it.”

“We’re interested in how fame affects people [in season 5],” says Klemmer. “I really like the idea of tempting the Legends, that they’re still susceptible. Even though they sort of get over themselves after [the first episode,] I think you could always be tempted by the promise of getting to be a singular franchise-driving superhero.”

Katie Yu/The CW

The season’s concern with fame also relates to the encores — a.k.a. reincarnated bad guys of history that season 5 bad big Astra (Olivia Swann) released back into the world of the living at the end of last season — the Legends will face.  “It’s like these people who were power hungry and attention-obsessed and, you know, wanted to rule the world. It’s definitely similar to sort of fame culture we have today,” says EP Keto Shimizu, with Godfree adding, “They have that desire for fame and notoriety, as opposed to the Legends who, because this is an ensemble show, understand the simple joy that comes from family.”

Of course, the season’s other main concern is the Zari (Tala Ashe) of it all. In the season 4 finale, Zari disappeared from the Legends and was replaced by her brother Behrad Tarazi (Shayan Sobhian) because defeating Neron erased the dystopian future from whence she came, which means her brother never died and she never got the air totem. Thankfully, that wasn’t the last we’ve seen of Ashe’s heroine, and the show will explore her relationship with Behrad in season 5. “That’s the one energy we’ve never had,” Klemmer says of their sibling dynamic. “That seems like it’s going to be fun.”

As Klemmer and Godfree focus on season 5, Shimizu is currently working on the forthcoming crossover, “Crisis on Infinite Earths,” with the Arrowverse’s other writers. Says Shimizu, “I’m there making sure that, no matter what happens in the massive craziness in the crossover, we have the characters that are participating in [‘Crisis’] land in a very particular place.” Knowing Legends, that place will probably be wonderfully weird.

So I wonder if they whole multiple children’s thing will be them dressing in Legends costume and merch lol like cosplaying them. That would be cute.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

“They’re famous for the first time and some of them are loving it. You have Sara, the stalwart captain who’s the most suspicious of this [and] is not into it.”

I'm glad they are at least keeping one thing true to Sara's character (since I barely recognize her as the character I loved on Arrow anymore) She's not a hero for the fame and glory like some of the others *coughbarrycough*. She doesn't care if anyone knows who she is, she helps because it's the right thing to do. 

[birdsflyinghigh]

12 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

The rest of the people on the ship are on team Legends. So no they are not guests. Ava is not a member of the Legends therefore she's a guest. 

Ava has been more or less a Legend since the start of the season. You can see her not as one but some people do. I mean people still called Nate a Legend even tho he left and went to work for the Bureau. Nora gets called a Legend too by some people. 

[Sakura12]

I'm going by the show not what people online call them. Ava was never an official member of team Legends because she worked for the TB. I don't consider Nora an official member either. Nate was a Legend then left for a bit and came back to the team. Nora and Ava are guests. 

I watch this show for Sara, Mick and Ray, the originals and they didn't do anything last season. The show was taken over by the Time Bureau.  For me last season was their worst one yet. Now Season 1 looks so much better because at least it was about team Legends. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Sakura12

[Proteus]

We'll have to see how Ava, Nora, & Mona are treated next season. I doubt they are going to be considered just guests. When Ava moves in on the Waverider, I'd assume she'll be considered an official member of the team and be equal to everyone else. Just like Constantine & Charlie have been since they joined last season.

[Sakura12]

What I don't like is even if Ava is considered a member next season that she just gets to take over and lead the team. I'd feel the same if Nora or Mona did that too. And now I think one of the reasons Zari was erased is so Ava has to take over. 

Since we have some Ava fans on here now, I'll just let you know that I haven't liked Ava since her introduction. She has occasional moments but I've never warmed to her. 

[birdsflyinghigh]

12 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

What I don't like is even if Ava is considered a member next season that she just gets to take over and lead the team. I'd feel the same if Nora or Mona did that too. And now I think one of the reasons Zari was erased is so Ava has to take over. 

Since we have some Ava fans on here now, I'll just let you know that I haven't liked Ava since her introduction. She has occasional moments but I've never warmed to her. 

Nate had an actual goodbye to the Legends team when he left and he came back to help when Ray was taken, just like Ava helps them, but I guess it’s because she’s Ava that she doesn’t count, right? Rip called Sara and Ava his protege for a reason. Sara will always be the Captain for me, and just because Ava will call the shots for whatever reason, it won’t change that. Legends is an ensemble show and as much as I love the originals, I knew what to expect when they were rotating characters around. You might watch it for the originals, but other cast and characters are what attracts others to watch the show. The only one taking over Zari is her brother. 

And well, I mean it’s kind of obvious lol. 

[lurker22]

20 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

What I don't like is even if Ava is considered a member next season that she just gets to take over and lead the team. I'd feel the same if Nora or Mona did that too. And now I think one of the reasons Zari was erased is so Ava has to take over. 

It looks that way to me too. Zari was already behaving like the Captain last season (see how she handled Constantine, Charlie and Mick), so if she was still around, it would make more sense to me that Sara would make her interim Captain if Sara was too sick to lead.

53 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm glad they are at least keeping one thing true to Sara's character (since I barely recognize her as the character I loved on Arrow anymore) She's not a hero for the fame and glory like some of the others *coughbarrycough*. She doesn't care if anyone knows who she is, she helps because it's the right thing to do. 

I'm glad they didn't decide to make Sara love the fame too. That would just be too OOC IMO. I'm already giving the writers the side-eye for making her so concerned about being seen as "heroes" in the S4 season premiere. But of course that's because it's tied to the Avalance storyline.

While the whole "new superpowers" thing sound like a step in the right direction for giving Sara her own plot, I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet because I've been disappointed the last 2 seasons. I'll wait and see how the writers approach it first. 

[Sakura12]

Yeah, it will have to be a wait and see for me too. I no longer trust these writers like I did in previous seasons. S4 was such a disappointment. Season 3 at least had some good moments. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

Ok, Ava taking over as captain is just speculation on our part right now, right?   Has there been an actual spoiler saying that was happening, other than the “shaking things up” comment?  

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, Ava taking over as captain is just speculation on our part right now, right?   Has there been an actual spoiler saying that was happening, other than the “shaking things up” comment?  

It was from the SDCC Powerhouse thing from Comic Con. 

Sara & Ava can make their relationship work as long as Sara can handle Ava calling the shots. Klemmer says their looking to mix things up for them, not mess things up for them.

[Starfish35]

Ok, so in light of the powers/illness spoiler for Sara, we’re interpreting Ava calling the shots as her becoming captain.  I get it now.  🤦🏻‍♀️ Sorry.  I’m slow today. ☹️

[Sakura12]

14 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, so in light of the powers/illness spoiler for Sara, we’re interpreting Ava calling the shots as her becoming captain.  I get it now.  🤦🏻‍♀️ Sorry.  I’m slow today. ☹️

They also said the TB is done so Ava no longer has a job and she's living on the Waverider with Sara. Why else would she be calling the shots if Sara was still Captain?

I hope it's just Klemmer sucking at wording things. Saying Avalance can only work if Sara can handle Ava calling the shots. I'm sorry, what? If that's the basis of their relationship no wonder I never got on board with it. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, birdsflyinghigh said:

Like I said, Sara has always called the shots.

Not while Rip was around.  We watched Sara have to earn the status of captain and the respect of the other Legends.

On the other hand, Ava has always called the shots in terms of the Time Bureau other than with Nate's father. She's always called the shots in terms of her relationship with Sara.

I'll wait to see how it turns out, but it doesn't get me excited for the new season.  I'm interested to see who Behrad is as long as Zari still has a prominent role.

Does Nate get yet another new love interest this  year?

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Does Nate get yet another new love interest this  year?

Per the spoilers that came out at the end of last season, NewZari and Nate are going to be getting back together, if she can prove she’s worthy of him.🙄

Quote

Legends of Tomorrow Boss on What That Zari Twist Means for Season 5

In her [Zari] place, we have her formerly deceased brother Behrad. Nate sensed something was off, hinting that he might be aware of the alternate timeline. How will that come into play in Season 5?
Klemmer: We played a little bit with Constantine in "Legends of Legends of To-Meow-Meow," having to deal with dual realities, and it drove him pretty bonkers. I guess you could say that there's a similar reckoning in Nate's brain. What we're trying to say is you can change reality, but some things are too powerful to be erased from someone's memory, like being in love with his woman. I guess we're gonna have to see whether next season's Zari is really worthy of that love. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by BaggythePanther
Added link to article

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

Per the spoilers that came out at the end of last season, NewZari and Nate are going to be getting back together, if she can prove she’s worthy of him.🙄

Pardon me while I throw up.

Such a powerful love ... when he was in love with another woman just a few months earlier. Stop making Nate your Wesley Crusher.

I really like this show but other than Ray and Nora, I'm not impressed with any of the canon relationships.

[BaggythePanther]

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I really like this show but other than Ray and Nora, I'm not impressed with any of the canon relationships

And the writers didn’t even really come up with that one. They just imitated real life.

[Sakura12]

The relationship that I liked on this show were the ones the writers didn't intend for. Sara/Leonard and Ray/Nora. The rest were basically, I don't like you, I like you then an episode later they are declaring their love for each other. That's too quick for me to really get on board a relationship. 

Ava's personality change was also too sudden for me that I would've believed Rip went and got another Ava clone to replace the one we were introduced too and that one was slightly nicer. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Sakura12

[Proteus]

More on Sara's power:

https://tvline.com/2019/07/19/legends-of-tomorrow-season-5-preview-video-brandon-routh-superman/

[tv echo]

I think this is a spoiler because I don't recall Bugsy Siegel appearing on any past seasons of LoT - this audition scene is between Bugsy and Sara Lance...

Hamish Allan-Headley - ‘Bugsy Siegel’ - DC Legends of Tomorrow
Posted 1 week ago by Hamish Allan-Headley

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

That could be for the 1920's noir episode. 

[MarkHB]

On 7/27/2019 at 10:56 AM, tv echo said:

I think this is a spoiler because I don't recall Bugsy Siegel appearing on any past seasons of LoT - this audition scene is between Bugsy and Sara Lance...

I doubt they'll take the angle of a League of Assassins operative meeting a principal member of Murder, Inc., but that's a story I'd like to see regardless.

[BaggythePanther]

I believe this is the first episode we’ll see new Zari. I was a bit thrown by the numbering, because new characters tend to appear in episode three, but it seems like the crossover will be slated as episode 8, even though it’s airing first. Which will basically make this the third episode of the season.

[Proteus]

 

I wonder if Mona & Wolfie may be out.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Proteus

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

I wonder if Mona & Wolfie may be out.

It sounds it.  I'm glad to see the character leave, but I do feel bad for Ramona.

[Sakura12]

Yeah, that sounds like Mona's gone. I feel bad for the actress it's not her fault the writers wrote a terrible character. 

[darkestboy]

I feel bad for Ramona but Mona just didn't really work that well as a character, so I don't think it's a bad thing for the show to lose the character.

[Lady Calypso]

Oh...wow, that DOES suck for Ramona.

I had an issue with Mona as a character, and especially Wolfie, but....I was thinking that they'd just demote her back to recurring. I can handle her in a recurring role, not as a main character. I would have been fine if her and Gary recurred in much smaller doses than last season. 

But yeah, only disappointed for the actress, who isn't bad. I'm ok with losing Mona as a Legend.

[Starfish35]

Echoing everyone else....I do feel really bad for Ramona Young, but as far as the show goes, I am not at all sorry to lose Mona, and especially Wolfie.

[Princess Lucky]

I must say, as someone who loved Ramona Young on Santa Clarita Diet, I never really liked Mona, and her character also highlighted the fact Gary was a trickier concept than I gave him/the writers credit for. Mona was always too over the top for me, bordering on annoying, whereas Gary was actually funny bordering on sad. He was a more fully-realized character, and Mona was just... not. If she is indeed leaving, I won't be sad to see her go.

Also, can I just chime in on two spoilers above?

First of all, I feel that Ava "calling the shots" is about her and Sara's relationship (if not their sex life, ahem) and not literally about Ava calling the actual shots when it comes to the Legends or the missions.

And, to me, that bit about "is New!Zari worthy of Nate's love?" isn't about Zari having to re-earn his love, I interpret it as "New!Zari is an annoying brat, nothing like the Zari Nate fell in love with (and won't it be fun to see Tala play that)". Seeing as how Nate was respectful of Amaya's choice and (surprisingly!) had zero inappropriateness with Charlie, I could see New!Zari having her own individual storyline away from Nate (especially because neither of them remembers anything). And a reunion could be about them regaining their memories (I hope, because I'd hate to lose "our" Zari forever).

[Proteus]

3 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

I must say, as someone who loved Ramona Young on Santa Clarita Diet, I never really liked Mona, and her character also highlighted the fact Gary was a trickier concept than I gave him/the writers credit for. Mona was always too over the top for me, bordering on annoying, whereas Gary was actually funny bordering on sad. He was a more fully-realized character, and Mona was just... not. If she is indeed leaving, I won't be sad to see her go.

Also, can I just chime in on two spoilers above?

First of all, I feel that Ava "calling the shots" is about her and Sara's relationship (if not their sex life, ahem) and not literally about Ava calling the actual shots when it comes to the Legends or the missions.

And, to me, that bit about "is New!Zari worthy of Nate's love?" isn't about Zari having to re-earn his love, I interpret it as "New!Zari is an annoying brat, nothing like the Zari Nate fell in love with (and won't it be fun to see Tala play that)". Seeing as how Nate was respectful of Amaya's choice and (surprisingly!) had zero inappropriateness with Charlie, I could see New!Zari having her own individual storyline away from Nate (especially because neither of them remembers anything). And a reunion could be about them regaining their memories (I hope, because I'd hate to lose "our" Zari forever).

I wouldn't like if Ava is calling the shots in her & Sara's relationship like Sara has no voice. That would make viewers who hate the relationship hate it even more. So I think that scoop has to be about Waverider leadership.

I keep hoping new Zari will have no time for Nate.

I'm fine with Mona leaving. I feel bad for Ramona Young but the character was awful from the start.

[Proteus]

New info. More in the video:

https://www.tvinsider.com/799651/legends-of-tomorrow-season-5-ava-sara-superpower-mick-romance-novels/

"You can't just stay in the pocket, stay in the groove, keep doing what you're doing," Klemmer said. "That's the good and the bad of it. It's not like a rinse and repeat sort of show. It's like you shed your skin and then hopefully whatever's underneath, it's even more freaky than your last incarnation."

And one of the changes coming in the new season involves the team's financial situation. They've lost their government funding, but fortunately, one of the Legends has a career that can help them keep the Waverider traveling through time.

They're also losing one set (the Time Bureau) and gaining another because Constantine (Matt Ryan) needed a space of his own.

Watch the video above to find out what superpower Lotz wants her character to get, what to expect from Avalance and the Atom in the Season 5 premiere, and more.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

I wonder of getting rid of Mona is to have the budget for Sara's super power. 

With Avalance I just need Sara to have voice in their relationship this season. Last season we mostly only dealt with Ava's issues. 

[Starfish35]

42 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Watch the video above to find out what superpower Lotz wants her character to get, what to expect from Avalance and the Atom in the Season 5 premiere, and mor

What video is this?  Do you have the link?

[Proteus]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

What video is this?  Do you have the link?

Follow the link I posted. The video is there.

[Starfish35]

14 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Follow the link I posted. The video is there.

Oh sorry.  For some reason your update didn’t show up for me until now.  

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

And, to me, that bit about "is New!Zari worthy of Nate's love?" isn't about Zari having to re-earn his love, I interpret it as "New!Zari is an annoying brat, nothing like the Zari Nate fell in love with (and won't it be fun to see Tala play that)". Seeing as how Nate was respectful of Amaya's choice and (surprisingly!) had zero inappropriateness with Charlie, I could see New!Zari having her own individual storyline away from Nate (especially because neither of them remembers anything). And a reunion could be about them regaining their memories (I hope, because I'd hate to lose "our" Zari forever).

Nate had "zero inappropriateness with Charlie" because Charlie herself shut that down about two seconds into their first meeting when she clocked him for hugging her because he mistook her for Amaya.

[Proteus]

If you look at the replies to the Instagram posts I posted it sounds like people who work on the show are saying good byes to them as well. This post from Ramona also seems suspect:

[shantown]

I am glad TPTB aren't keeping around an unliked/unnecessary character just because the actor portraying them is well liked. Arrowverse shows tend to do this far too often and I'm hoping this is a step in the right direction as far as bloating casts goes.

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Echoing everyone else....I do feel really bad for Ramona Young, but as far as the show goes, I am not at all sorry to lose Mona, and especially Wolfie.

Co-sign.  I liked her at first, but last ruined her character for me all over.

4 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I must say, as someone who loved Ramona Young on Santa Clarita Diet, I never really liked Mona, and her character also highlighted the fact Gary was a trickier concept than I gave him/the writers credit for. Mona was always too over the top for me, bordering on annoying, whereas Gary was actually funny bordering on sad. He was a more fully-realized character, and Mona was just... not. If she is indeed leaving, I won't be sad to see her go.

I think it helps that we got just the right amount of Gary.  Yeah, he was a good concept and whoever was responsible for his conception and development had a great bead on the character.  Also the actor has great comedic timing but also allows a little bit of that stuff you want to feel sorry for to shine through.  But even so, I think like Mona, too much of him would have been the ruination of him. 

[BaggythePanther]

4 hours ago, shantown said:

I am glad TPTB aren't keeping around an unliked/unnecessary character just because the actor portraying them is well liked. Arrowverse shows tend to do this far too often and I'm hoping this is a step in the right direction as far as bloating casts goes.

There was some interview (pre SDCC) where the writers mentioned a plan to bring on another male character. So I appreciate that TPTB are willing to cut something when it doesn’t work, but unfortunately they don’t seem concerned about the size of the cast.

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I think it helps that we got just the right amount of Gary.  Yeah, he was a good concept and whoever was responsible for his conception and development had a great bead on the character.  Also the actor has great comedic timing but also allows a little bit of that stuff you want to feel sorry for to shine through.  But even so, I think like Mona, too much of him would have been the ruination of him. 

Last summer I rewatched seasons 1-3 and I was surprised to see that Gary appeared in the first episode of season three. When watching live, I didn’t really notice his appearances until the back half of the season. Compare that to Mona who had a solo storyline right away and three A plots in the second half of the season. It was too much, too fast.

[Primal Slayer]

Why don't they just reboot her character? They've done it twice now, what's a 3rd time? 

[BaggythePanther]

Tala recently added this to her IG story. It feels like they’re trying to hold off on showing newZari and it seems like there haven’t been a lot of BTS pictures in general. 

[Featherhat]

On 8/1/2019 at 3:40 AM, Primal Slayer said:

Why don't they just reboot her character? They've done it twice now, what's a 3rd time? 

They could have done, but if she really is leaving I guess they decided to cut their losses on an unpopular character like they did with the Hawks. They're already rebooting Zari this season and maybe a soft reboot of Sara with powers (if they change her much at all). I think she's an easy character to cut, very tied in with the magic storyline and now that's (kind of) over with, if they need to ease the budget for other new characters (sigh) then she's an obvious one. And maybe they weren't as interested in the character as the several storylines they gave her right off the bat would have suggested. 

That phone cover is really cute. Very curious about nu!Zari. 

[tv echo]

I came across this when I was looking for Arrow stuff - it was posted 8 hours ago by director Avi Youabian (he's directing 504)...

And it looks like Avi will stick around for 505 to mentor Caity Lotz with her directorial debut...

Edited August 20, 2019 by tv echo

[johntfs]

Mona was the catalyst for the wine and cake "girls' night in" with her, Nora and Ava in "Tender is the Nate."  I'll love her character forever for giving us that.

[tv echo]