S30: Will Sims II

[SunDevil28]

"Well, Jeff, I didn't apologize before because Shirin wouldn't accept it because she's horrible. I would now like to apologize to Shirin's family, you know, the ones who abused her and/or have little to no relationship with her. And Shirin, I hope you can use this pathetic excuse for an apology to get your head on straight, because it's still all your fault because you're crazy."

Thank goodness Shirin took the opportunity to remind everyone about the "no soul" comments and ask why she should be treated that way in the first place.

[ProfCrash]

"Well, Jeff, I didn't apologize before because Shirin wouldn't accept it because she's horrible. I would now like to apologize to Shirin's family, you know, the ones who abused her and/or have little to no relationship with her. And Shirin, I hope you can use this pathetic excuse for an apology to get your head on straight, because it's still all your fault because you're crazy."

Thank goodness Shirin took the opportunity to remind everyone about the "no soul" comments and ask why she should be treated that way in the first place.

Amen!

[Jersey Guy 87]

The other person doesn't  have to be "ready to accept it" for you to apologize - if you're really, actually sorry you apologize and don't worry if the other person will accept your apology.  Will didn't apologize because he wasn't sorry and didn't think he did anything wrong.

[ProfCrash]

Will is fully hammered in the jury speaks videos that they shot with all the jury members. And you can tell that Tyler was a bit bitter. He contemplated Will winning because Will didn't piss him off and was non-threatening. Yeah, Will was only in the running because he didn't play the game. There is consensus that he did nothing challenge wise, socially, or around camp.

[Special K]

Translation of Will's apology:  I'd like the backlash against me stop now.

[ProfCrash]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/21/survivor-will-situation-shirin-im-done-it

 

The first interview I have seen.

[Artsda]

He knew her past, he's such a liar trying to save face and deflect since a backlash against him. 

[OldWiseOne]

Any apology that begins with "I'm sorry IF" is no apology in my books. I'm sorry if my words hurt you is not the same as owning up to your actions / taking responsibility and expressing regret for what you have said. This guy is an ass and cannot fade into obscurity fast enough for my liking.

[BigRedCheese]

I just can't bring myself to listen to any of his interviews, I hope this guy never returns to Survivor.

[ProfCrash]

He is not getting the type of questions Dan was. I think I know why. Dan had a season of footage showing his interactions with many people, Will had the one blow up that we saw. Outside of that, Will had been hidden. He was a non-entity. His lack of game play was evident in how the jury discussed him.

 

So I think the fight was an isolated incident and that has diffused the situation a bit.

 

I hope Will and Shirin are able to sit down one day and hash it out and leave feeling like it is closed.

 

I think Dan got the sledgehammer because he had issues with Lindsey, Sierra, Shirin, Mike, and Rodney. He managed to make questionable comments across the entire season, to continue in Ponderosa.

 

And I think that Dan took the full blast of peoples anger last week so Will is spared.

[Jersey Guy 87]

He is not getting the type of questions Dan was. I think I know why. Dan had a season of footage showing his interactions with many people, Will had the one blow up that we saw. Outside of that, Will had been hidden. He was a non-entity. His lack of game play was evident in how the jury discussed him.

 

So I think the fight was an isolated incident and that has diffused the situation a bit.

 

I hope Will and Shirin are able to sit down one day and hash it out and leave feeling like it is closed.

 

I think Dan got the sledgehammer because he had issues with Lindsey, Sierra, Shirin, Mike, and Rodney. He managed to make questionable comments across the entire season, to continue in Ponderosa.

 

And I think that Dan took the full blast of peoples anger last week so Will is spared.

 

I think Dan took a lot more heat at the reunion because he was voted out, had done his Ponderosa video and a round of interviews.  And in those interviews he blamed the editing and said he was portrayed unfairly.  I'm sure Will would have done the same thing, he just didn't get the chance since he was brought to the end as the obvious dead fish.

I don't care if Shirin and Will ever hash this out - it's probably in both their best interests to ignore each other going forward.

[ProfCrash]

Will is not getting hit hard in the interviews. A fair number of them have been two people interviews and that changes things. But Rob softballed the Will interview.

[Bryce Lynch]

Will went way overboard with Shirin, but Shirin started the conflict by falsely accusing him of not sharing all of HIS food with the tribe. She not only accused him of being a liar, she was turning an extraordinary act of kindness into a negative thing, that could have had him voted out.

Remember, in the 1st episode Will had chosen the big bag of beans for the tribe, rather than the small one and the advantage in the game, so he had already proven his integrity. Then that annoying, self pitying, useless, nasty Shirin rewarded his kindness by smearing his character and almost getting him voted off. She deserved to have Will rip her a new one, but he did go too far.

Then she was incredibly vindictive and petty by denying Will his letter from home.

Will was wrong to call her soulless. Shirin has a soul, but it is a dark, compassionless, bitter, twisted, mean spirited, toxic soul.

[ProfCrash]

Bryce, you are wrong. People lie about food. People lie about everything in game.

 

Will lied to Vince that they were allies and voted VInce out.

Will lied to Hali and said that Shirin was the Hali vote the night Jenn played her idol.

Will lied to the White Collars and said he was in an alliance with them after he jumped.

 

No one gives a crap about those lies or the backstabbing. It is Survivor, it happens.

 

People lie about food, See So and Joaquin. People questions folks about food, See Mike and Dan.

 

Will made a personal attack that had nothing to do with food. Will was fine when he did his whole rant on the food and proving he wasn't lying. Then he attacked Shirin personally.

 

Will was wrong. Will had no reason to call Shirin soulless.

 

Will is the worlds largest hypocrite if he is ok with the lies he told up to that point, and there were plenty, but Shirin, Jenn, and Mike are not allowed to question his sharing the food to justify attack by being upset that his "integrity" was challenged.

 

On top of it, Will did not attack Mike or Jenn. Jenn said that Will pulled him aside and said that he was ok with her and that he loved her and he understood that what she had said was game play. So Jenn can say that Will had not shared everything but Shirin cannot?

 

If Will wanted his letter from home, Will should have been a better person and not attacked Shirin on a personal level.

 

And for the record, the argument that Shirin was hated by everyone is beyond ridiculous. She hangs out regularly with Hali, Joe, Mike, Jenn, and Sierra. She gets along just fine with Tyler and Carolyn. The only people harping on how bad Shirin are Joaquin, Will, and Dan. So, umm yeah. Let me take the word of three men who demonstrated that they are not exactly quality people.

 

Will was wrong. Trying to justify his awful comments by claiming that his integrity was challenged is beyond silly.

 

I can buy that people don't care as much because it was one incident, as opposed to the number of incidents that we saw with Dan. Will looked like an ass on the show and in his bogus apologies.

[scowl]

Remember, in the 1st episode Will had chosen the big bag of beans for the tribe, rather than the small one and the advantage in the game, so he had already proven his integrity.

 

Bryce, if you believe one single act establishes a player's integrity for the entirety of the game, you would not last long on Survivor.

 

In the first episode Will also promised that he would give NC tribe sandwiches. Where were the sandwiches? He was a manipulator from the start.

[peachmangosteen]

To be honest, I just don't really see how sharing/not sharing the food you won at the auction even has anything to do with integrity.

[Special K]

Will was wrong to call her soulless. Shirin has a soul, but it is a dark, compassionless, bitter, twisted, mean spirited, toxic soul.

 

Will, is that you? 

[siamese.dream]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Will's state of mind when he went off on Shirin. Buying yourself out of the auction, when you already suck at challenges, and then finding out everyone got letters from home but you, and then your hear them talking smack about you - beef jerky and some trail mix isn't going to make that ok with me. The two clearly had personal issues and he snapped. His behavior was totally uncalled for, and I can't blame her for holding back his letter. The audience's reaction to all this is disturbing. Worst person ever? Classless wife? Seriously. These responses are no different. Art (lol) is truly a reflection.

Edited May 22, 2015 by siamese.dream

[Jersey Guy 87]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Will's state of mind when he went off on Shirin. Buying yourself out of the auction, when you already suck at challenges, and then finding out everyone got letters from home but you, and then your hear them talking smack about you - beef jerky and some trail mix isn't going to make that ok with me. The two clearly had personal issues and he snapped. His behavior was totally uncalled for, and I can't blame her for holding back his letter. The audience's reaction to all this is disturbing. Worst person ever? Classless wife? Seriously. These responses are no different. Art (lol) is truly a reflection.

 

I think part of the audience reaction to Will is that given the amount of time that has passed and the reaction he received Will still hasn't really apologized.  He apologized to Shirin's family first - you know, the people she said she wasn't close to.  He put conditions on an apology - Shirin had to be "ready" to accept his apology.  He never actually apologized for calling her soulless.  His wife showed very little class during the reunion by trying to shout down Shirin.  Is Will the worst person ever?  No, of course not, but the reaction is to Will's ongoing refusal to admit he did anything wrong.

[ProfCrash]

Mike said that Will apologized to him the day after the fight. Will pulled Jenn aside and said they were fine. Mike also said that he never heard Shirin talk shit about Will or Dan.

 

I am going with Will is a dick

[BigRedCheese]

Hopefully this is a lesson to the Survivor casting department, just because somebody is willing to make a fool of themselves on youtube doesn't mean they should be on Survivor.

[marys1000]

Sierra, Rodney...all liked Will.  Since they were there I feel like I trust them over the editing.  I didn't like the editing and if you read between the lines of a lot of the interviews neither did the cast.

 

Edited May 29, 2015 by marys1000

[Nutjob]

Rodney showed himself to be sexist and, really, classless, so his thoughts about Will mean nothing to me. Sierra was such a nonentity in the editing after her dust-up with the men of the BC tribe that I have no clue how to weigh her opinions. Therefore, I have to stick with what both the editing and Will's behavior at the finale showed regarding Shirin. He might be OK to people who share his beliefs, or to men, or to another group of people, but his non-pology showed that he has some major work to do as both a person and a Christian.

[BigRedCheese]

I don't have any problem believing that Will can be likable, he was edited to be likable up until his blow up at Shirin when he got personal on a truly vile level, there was no way to edit that any other way than it came out. If anything, they fooled us with editing him as a nice guy, since he was going after Shirin from early on, then he used the food thing as an excuse to take it to a truly disturbing and bizarre place.

[Jextella]

Sierra, Rodney...all liked Will.  Since they were there I feel like I trust them over the editing.  I didn't like the editing and if you read between the lines of a lot of the interviews neither did the cast.

Agreed. The cast is saying generally nice things about Dan, Will, and Rodney off camera - esp. Rodney. The camera time just wasn't as positive.

To be honest, I just don't really see how sharing/not sharing the food you won at the auction even has anything to do with integrity.

I don't think it's about the sharing, it's about the fact that Will's honesty was questioned. That matters - esp. in the game of Survivor when a person is trying to win trust, votes, etc. IMO, Will had every reason in the world to be pissed off. The way reacted was wrong, of course, but the fact that he was upset was not.

[BigRedCheese]

But Will wasn't upset at Jenn at all, so we know that he didn't get weirdly personal with Sharin because his honesty was questioned, and with Mike, he mostly just seemed upset because he stood up for Sharin. The food thing was an excuse, whatever reason he really got almost violently upset with Sharin isn't something he's willing to share with the public.

[Zuleikha]

IMO, Will had every reason in the world to be pissed off.

No, he didn't. He had no integrity or honesty to defend. He'd already been caught lying about Shirin being the one to vote against the NC alliance in the first two votes. He was telling the truth in the incident about the food, but it's not like he'd been some sterling character whose word was reliable prior to that point. He was a known liar.

 

I really wish interviewers would make him give a direct answer to why he said that Shirin has no soul. I hate that he's being allowed to dodge that.

[Bryce Lynch]

Bryce, if you believe one single act establishes a player's integrity for the entirety of the game, you would not last long on Survivor.

In the first episode Will also promised that he would give NC tribe sandwiches. Where were the sandwiches? He was a manipulator from the start.

The sandwich comment was obviously a joke.

I didn't particularly like Will, and I don't think people in such horrible physical condition even belong on the show, (they are worthless in challenges, and eventually one is going to drop dead on the set.) but I think he way too much has been made of his comments to Shirin (who also has no business being on the show due to her physical and emotional frailty).

She called him a food hoarding liar, he called her soulless. They are basically even in my book.

Then Shirin, demonstrated what a wonderful soul she has, by denying Will (who had shared all his food with the tribe) his letter from home. That was 10 times as ugly as what Will did, and was also horrible game play, and pretty much summed up Shirin...petty, vindictive, horrible person and horrible player.

[BigRedCheese]

Again, Will wasn't upset at Jenn at all, and we only saw him upset at Mike over standing up for Shirin, the food thing was an excuse, he wasn't ripping into her on a personal level over that. Besides, questioning whether someone is being honest about the amount of food they're sharing is a routine part of Survivor, and people hoard food all the time in the game, as Richard Hatch said, you would have to be an idiot in the game of Survivor not to question it.

 

Others have said that if Sharin hadn't raised her hand, they would have, letting Will out of a challenge he had no chance of winning was patently absurd to begin with, I'm disappointed in Probst for being willing to go along with it.

[fishcakes]

Not to mention that Will was, in fact, a liar. He lied to the NCs more than once, claiming he wasn't the flipper and Shirin was. Lying is part of the game and I don't hold that against him, but it's pretty rich for him to baldface lie about one aspect of the game and then get all, "how DARRRE you" when his honesty is questioned about another.

[Special K]

Not to mention that Will was, in fact, a liar. He lied to the NCs more than once, claiming he wasn't the flipper and Shirin was. Lying is part of the game and I don't hold that against him, but it's pretty rich for him to baldface lie about one aspect of the game and then get all, "how DARRRE you" when his honesty is questioned about another.

 

This.  Clearly, with the snacks, he thought he was doing something magnanimous, and was pissed that he didn't get the credit for it that he thought he deserved.  If he knew Survivor, he'd know that the game is rigged to create just these kinds of suspicions and jealousies, and to put contestants in no-win situations.  Hell, this game BEGAN with just such a no-win scenario.  Isn't it conventional Survivor wisdom that, in most seasons, doing a good deed often backfires? (ie, giving up a reward for someone else leading directly to being voted out?).

 

I don't like Will at all, and hated his behavior, but I think this episode most of all showed his ignorance of the game.

[Jersey Guy 87]

The sandwich comment was obviously a joke.

I didn't particularly like Will, and I don't think people in such horrible physical condition even belong on the show, (they are worthless in challenges, and eventually one is going to drop dead on the set.) but I think he way too much has been made of his comments to Shirin (who also has no business being on the show due to her physical and emotional frailty).

She called him a food hoarding liar, he called her soulless. They are basically even in my book.

Then Shirin, demonstrated what a wonderful soul she has, by denying Will (who had shared all his food with the tribe) his letter from home. That was 10 times as ugly as what Will did, and was also horrible game play, and pretty much summed up Shirin...petty, vindictive, horrible person and horrible player.

 

I don't have a problem with people in poor shape being on Survivor - the game is not just about winning physical challenges and often very athletic people go out early (for a variety of reasons).  And I don't think Shirin was so "emotionally frail" that she should not have been on the game.

 

Shirin most definitely did not call Will a "food hoarding liar" she speculated (along with Mike and Jenn) that Will might not have shared all the food he received.  As others have pointed out Will did not have a problem with Mike and Jenn, only with Shirin.  So it's unlikely that having his "integrity" questioned is why he went off on Shirin, he used it as an excuse.

And I have no problem with Shirin denying Will his letter from home.  Will didn't bid on it and he offered nothing in exchange for it.  Did anyone think Will had a chance of winning the immunity challenge he was willing to sit out of in exchange for his letter?  Did anyone think there was any chance Will actually needed the immunity anyway?  Will was the safest person at every tribal council after the merge, there was no way anyone was going to write his name down because he was the ultimate dead fish.  He bid on the first blind item offered at the auction, it turned out to be a classic "gotcha" prize and he wasn't allowed to bid on anything else, including the letters from home.

[ProfCrash]

In fairness, Will didn't have the opportunity to bid on it. I don't think he should have gotten his letter, he was bounced from the auction and he really wasn't giving anything up in return for the letter, but it is not like he choose not to bid on it and then decided later he wanted the letter.

[Bryce Lynch]

I don't have a problem with people in poor shape being on Survivor - the game is not just about winning physical challenges and often very athletic people go out early (for a variety of reasons). And I don't think Shirin was so "emotionally frail" that she should not have been on the game.

Shirin most definitely did not call Will a "food hoarding liar" she speculated (along with Mike and Jenn) that Will might not have shared all the food he received. As others have pointed out Will did not have a problem with Mike and Jenn, only with Shirin. So it's unlikely that having his "integrity" questioned is why he went off on Shirin, he used it as an excuse.

And I have no problem with Shirin denying Will his letter from home. Will didn't bid on it and he offered nothing in exchange for it. Did anyone think Will had a chance of winning the immunity challenge he was willing to sit out of in exchange for his letter? Did anyone think there was any chance Will actually needed the immunity anyway? Will was the safest person at every tribal council after the merge, there was no way anyone was going to write his name down because he was the ultimate dead fish. He bid on the first blind item offered at the auction, it turned out to be a classic "gotcha" prize and he wasn't allowed to bid on anything else, including the letters from home.

But Will's "gotcha" reward turned out to be the 2nd best (or arguably the best) prize. Will then chose to share that prize with the group (including Shirin).

After he did that, the least the rest of the group could do is let him have his letter. It cost them nothing. Of course EVERY member of the tribe understood this and voted to let him have the letter, except for ONE petty, vindictive, childish member.

As for players in poor shape, I don't think they all need to be athletes, I just thought Will looked dangerously unfit to go through the rigors of Survivor. I feared for his health.

[BigRedCheese]

Others have said that after what Will did to Sharin, they wanted to let her have the moment, but they would have raised their hand if Sharin didn't. Probst should have laughed in his face, what next, somebody that has no chance of winning the challenge making a deal with Probst for a steak dinner since they bid wrong and didn't get anything to eat at the auction? It was absurd, I'm glad somebody raised their hand for whatever reason.

[ljenkins782]

As for players in poor shape, I don't think they all need to be athletes, I just thought Will looked dangerously unfit to go through the rigors of Survivor. I feared for his health.

Agreed. I have no problem with overweight people going on the show, but he truly looks unhealthy. His eyes look yellowed and he had a sluggishness about him that seems indicative of very poor health overall. I have no idea whether or not he actually has any health issues, but I would not be surprised to learn that he does. 

 

 

But Will's "gotcha" reward turned out to be the 2nd best (or arguably the best) prize. Will then chose to share that prize with the group (including Shirin).

 

After he did that, the least the rest of the group could do is let him have his letter. It cost them nothing. Of course EVERY member of the tribe understood this and voted to let him have the letter, except for ONE petty, vindictive, childish member.

Will could also have made the choice to handle his disappointment with losing out at the auction/his honesty being questioned in a rational, adult manner. He made the choice to lash out and make some needlessly personal and hurtful remarks and that choice had some immediate consequences. 

 

As for the others claiming they would have raised their hands if Shirin hadn't, I'm not so sure about that. I don't know what any of them would have gained from it. It's not like he would be getting food that would re-energize him (if that's even possible) and even though his "trade" offer was ludicrous given his inability to win a challenge, I don't see any of the others as being willing to stick their necks out for no reason. Shirin did have a reason, an entirely personal one, but a reason and I don't blame her for taking that revenge when it was offered up. 

[Jersey Guy 87]

I'm sure people after the fact would say they'd have raised their hands if Shirin hadn't but that doesn't mean they really would have.  In any event, I don't think Will "deserved" the letters and I'm not in favor of the whole bartering with Jeff over concluded auction items to begin with (for example, I don't think Carolyn should have had the option of returning her unread letter when Mike initially reneged on the deal they had all made - she bid, she bought the letter, there are no returns).

 

I wouldn't call Will's prize anywhere near the top prize.  It was a gotcha, plain and simple.  No matter who won it if they revealed they got food they would be questioned as to whether they were holding any back.  If they didn't share the food and someone found out they'd be hated.  The letters from home appear to have been the best prize, although I'd argue any prize that put protein in your belly without making people suspicious was the best prize (and there were probably a couple of those).  Even the advantage wasn't a great prize - I think it would be hard for even a good player to play the extra vote, in Dan's hands there was no chance it would be played well.

 

Bottom line, I've got no problem with Shirin saying Will didn't deserve a letter from home.  Because he didn't - he jumped at the very first item up for auction which was a blind item and should have to face the consequences.  He shouldn't be allowed to barter for it after the fact, and if he is going to barter he should have to barter something other than pretending he had a chance in the immunity challenge.

[fishcakes]

If only Will could have anticipated that a situation might arise where he would be asking his tribemates to vote on whether he should get something, think how differently he might have treated some of them. Oh, wait.

[Bryce Lynch]

If only Will could have anticipated that a situation might arise where he would be asking his tribemates to vote on whether he should get something, think how differently he might have treated some of them. Oh, wait.

Certainly Will's over the top response to Shirin wasn't smart game play, but neither was Shirin accusation of him or especially her denying him the letter from home.

I honestly don't think Will's outburst lost him any votes other than Shirin's (which he wouldn't have gotten anyway). He lost at FTC because he was a mediocre player who coasted to FTC on the coattails of others and because he was not seen as a threat.

[phlebas]

Certainly Will's over the top response to Shirin wasn't smart game play, but neither was Shirin accusation of him or especially her denying him the letter from home.

I honestly don't think Will's outburst lost him any votes other than Shirin's (which he wouldn't have gotten anyway). He lost at FTC because he was a mediocre player who coasted to FTC on the coattails of others and because he was not seen as a threat.

 

I recommend you let this crusade go. Will needs us to forget him more than he needs a PR campaign.

[ProfCrash]

Mike said in his three hour Rob Has a Pdcast that Will lost the game with his attack. It guarenteed he did not get Shirin and Jenn's vote. It probably cost Joe and Hali's as well.

[BigRedCheese]

I think a case could be made that Will should have been pulled from the game after his vicious personal attack, it really was beyond the pale. I don't even look at it from a game perspective, it went well beyond the game, it was really disturbing.

[SomeTameGazelle]

The sandwich comment was obviously a joke.

I didn't particularly like Will, and I don't think people in such horrible physical condition even belong on the show, (they are worthless in challenges, and eventually one is going to drop dead on the set.) but I think he way too much has been made of his comments to Shirin (who also has no business being on the show due to her physical and emotional frailty).

 

 

I would be extremely surprised if contestants are not medically cleared to participate (at least physically) before they go on the show. And I would definitely trust the diagnosis of a medical professional who has examined the patient and reviewed his/her history over that of someone who has seen the person on TV.

[choclatechip45]

I would be extremely surprised if contestants are not medically cleared to participate (at least physically) before they go on the show. And I would definitely trust the diagnosis of a medical professional who has examined the patient and reviewed his/her history over that of someone who has seen the person on TV.

They are Jimmy Johnson the guy from Nicaragua was supposed to be on Gabon, but failed medical so Bob replaced him. Also Rc's dad and So Kim's sister failed medical before the original and second Blood vs water.

[kikaha]

I think a case could be made that Will should have been pulled from the game after his vicious personal attack, it really was beyond the pale. I don't even look at it from a game perspective, it went well beyond the game, it was really disturbing.

 

I couldn't disagree more.  I also believe if this ever catches on, it will spell the end of Survivor. 

[LadyChatts]

They are Jimmy Johnson the guy from Nicaragua was supposed to be on Gabon, but failed medical so Bob replaced him. Also Rc's dad and So Kim's sister failed medical before the original and second Blood vs water.

 

Never knew that!  I've learned so much about Survivor that I can't believe I missed from this board, in just the last few months.  Funny, that's the second time where the eventual winner of the series almost wasn't cast (Tina Wesson was an alternate in her season and replaced someone that dropped out at the last minute).  

 

While I would have to agree I don't think they should/could have removed Will from the game over his spat with Shirin, I don't believe we will ever see him return again, and likely they will want to gloss over this incident.  If they removed Will, then that paints a dangerous line and will no doubt greatly censor contestants in the future (not to mention cause a huge headache of first amendment lawsuits towards CBS).  I'm curious, since S32 already filmed while this was airing, and before any controversy erupted, I wonder if that cast is going to reflect more the WA group of being controversial in their comments, or if they will be the opposite since TPTB might have anticipated some backlash (though likely not the amount they got).  In reality, Dan got called out worse by Probst at the reunion than Will did for his comments.  I don't know why they cut Will's segment so short, or why Rodney didn't get called to task over things he had done.  I know Jeff had mentioned that the Will they interviewed was a far cry from the Will they got on the show, which isn't the first time I've heard him say that about a contestant.  But maybe remember because someone is having a grand old time in a scripted Youtube video that racks up views doesn't mean they will be good entertainment.

[BigRedCheese]

 

I don't think they should/could have removed Will from the game over his spat with Shirin

 

I certainly wouldn't characterize what Will did as a "spat", they pulled Brandon Hantz (yes, they held a quick tribal council, but that was just a formality, he was pulled), and that's what I meant by a case could be made. I do understand where people are coming from, and I don't want to see it happen at all, that's why they need to be more careful in casting and not just cast someone because they're a Hantz, or a "youtube sensation."  I have to believe that in both those cases, a lot of red flags were ignored in the process.

Edited June 2, 2015 by BigRedCheese

[ProfCrash]

I don't think Will should have been pulled. I don't think he should have been forced to apologize. What happened was something that should have been handled in game. I do think that there is a line that will need to be drawn but I don't know where that line is or how they draw it. I suspect it is when someone is following another person around, essentially stalking them, and harassing them. I don't think we have come close to that line and I doubt that they will ever get close to that line but who knows.

 

I have no problem with Will being cast. Dan was pretty badly out of shape and he did fine in the water challenges. For all we know, Will could have been a puzzle genius. As long as he passed medical he was fine. Dan and Will lost a ton of weight on the show and have kept it off. I think that is a good thing. I want to say Dan lost 40 pounds in his Ponderosa video. I suspect Will lost a similarly high number. Mike lost a lot of weight but he posted that he had put 20 pounds on before playing so I think that most of what he lost he had planned on losing by staying in the game forever.

 

Will had a very bad moment which he compounded at that tribal. He knew he had a bad moment in the game and had a good number of folks tell him in the game he had crossed a line. Tyler said something and Carolyn told him to sit in a chair and don't move or speak until tribal. I don't understand calling anyone unloved and soulless, that is such a low blow. I can see telling Shirin no one in the game liked her, she was annoying, she sucked at the game but not that she was soulless. His lack of apology in the game and after the game was glaring. His saying that everything he said was a fact and that Shirin was playing the victim was disgusting. His apology at the reunion show was awful. If he can treat one person that way and think he is justified he will treat other people that way and be ok with that. I would not want to be a friend of his. I also know he is cool with that.

 

I don't think we will see him on Survivor again. He was a boring player. He sucked at all the challenges, he did not seem to have much in the way of a strategy. He had the spotlight on him because of one awful fight. Dan has a better chance of getting on the show again.

[BigRedCheese]

When I say that I think red flags were ignored, I'm not talking about his obesity. I do agree that his situation wasn't as cut and dried as Brandon's was, I'm just saying it came pretty close to that.

[LadyChatts]

Will seemed fine to me, up until that point.  In Brandon's case, and also that woman Kathy in Micronesia, those are cases where I think something a little deeper should have been checked.  My memory is fuzzy on SP, but Brandon seemed somewhat normal on there.  Caramoan was where he came unhinged.  In his case, short of saying he would actually kill someone and then end up making good on it, because his last name was 'Hantz' I think they were willing to look the other way.  He got through SP unscathed (again, my memory is blank on that season so someone correct me if I'm wrong).  Sometimes that line is blurred where TPTB may overlook something for the sake of ratings and drama, not thinking it through the backlash they might receive (which 100% is what I believe happened for WA and why Jeff might have considered it a good season).  I've seen it here and elsewhere Kathy might have fibbed on her mental health history because she knew they wouldn't clear her, and that's why she ended up having a breakdown.

 

Yes, I used the wrong word in regards to it being a spat, but that was the only time I saw Will lash out.  Other than that he was pretty much in the background.  I don't know what his issue was with Shirin.  I know Shirin was annoying to everyone out there, even to those who liked her (Jenn/Hali/Joe all admitted it in interviews).  I don't believe Will should have gone off on her like he did, but we're all human and sometimes things just spiral.  He should have apologized, not kept it up for his pride or because he thought he was right.  He never should have bragged prior to the episode about 'bringing your popcorn' and then only gave an apology after two days of receiving backlash (I never actually saw an apology, just his wife stating the truth would come out at the reunion).  What I don't understand is Will apologizing to Jenn and Mike when he didn't go off on them nearly as bad as Shirin.  I wish Jeff would have shown the raw footage from that over trying to nail Dan over the whole 'yo mama' joke-gate.