S30: Shirin Oskooi

[SlackerInc]

The three players that have had the strongest anti-Shirin reactions are Joaquin, Dan, and Will. No offense, but I am not using those three as a barometer for anything other then bromances.

 

LOL, but I would have to put Carolyn in that mix as well (one of the primary reasons I didn't like her).

[peachmangosteen]

Carolyn seems to be pretty OK with Shirin though. And apparently she put Will in time out after he attacked Shirin and comforted Shirin. But the way Shirin tells it that doesn't really track. I don't really know who to believe. I think a lot of these folks, including Shirin, are really misrembering a lot of went down.

Edited May 22, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[choclatechip45]

 

Carolyn seems to be pretty OK with Shirin though. And apparently she put Will in time out after he attacked Shirin and comforted Shirin. But the way Shirin tells it that doesn't really track. I don't really know who to believe. I think a lot of these folks, including Shirin, are really misrembering a lot of went down.

I think Shirin remembers what she wants to remember.

[riley702]

I think they all do.

[marys1000]

Add So to the list, if I remember right she called Shirin "psychotic" in one of her post boot interviews.  Or wingnut?  Can't remember but I know it was one or the other.  Which I don't believe eve if I'm not a big fan of Shirin.  I liked her early on and thought she was funny.  Mid way I still didn't dislike her.  But now, just don't want to see her or hear about her anymore.  I blame the producers for that.  So much complaining about the editing I have no idea what happened this season.  They just should have minimized showing all that and stuck to the game play.  She wasn't a good player. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by marys1000

[Stinamaia]

Carolyn seems to be pretty OK with Shirin though. And apparently she put Will in time out after he attacked Shirin and comforted Shirin. But the way Shirin tells it that doesn't really track. I don't really know who to believe. I think a lot of these folks, including Shirin, are really misrembering a lot of went down.

Both Carolyn and Will say Carolyn wasn't even in camp when the yelling occurred. This seems to agree with the footage. My understanding is Mike was not there when it began but when he did appear, he hustled Shirin away.

I also thought I heard from someone that Shirin came back and yelled at Will some more, but maybe that was in Dan's exit interview and is, therefore, in doubt. Tyler also said something about Shrin speaking up, I thought. Anyway, wish they would show the raw footage there. But I had to fast forward through the yelling anyway because I really can't deal with that sort of thing.

[peachmangosteen]

I think they all do.

 

Exactly. They all remember what makes them look good and the others looks bad. Which, you know, I guess I can't blame them for that. We all do it!

 

I don't really think Shirin speaking up to Will has anything to do with Will's attack on her. Will is still shitty, that was still a super gross display from him, and I still feel pretty confident it was largely religion based. I've said it before but if Shirin was attacking Will personally as well, then she will also look bad, but Will won't suddenly look good if that's the case. And even if Shirin did speak up (which actually we were shown her speaking up so I don't know why Tyler's whining anyway) I can still understand her being hurt by no one saying/doing anything.

 

I honestly am not a huge Shirin fan, but I just can't fathom her being so bad that some of these people act as if she's an evil, crazy monster. And personally I am more likely to believe the opinions of Jenn/Joe/Hali/Sierra/Mike than Tyler/Dan/Will/Rodney/all the other pre-jury losers

Edited May 23, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[RescueMom]

 

She says she told -- not just one or two trusted people -- but everyone about her abusive childhood.  That's playing the victim card.

 

I am going to respectfully but strongly disagree with this statement for 2 reasons.  First, everyone says that they have so much down time when playing where there is literally nothing to do.  I would imagine the topics of family and childhood come up over and over.  What was she supposed do do?  Refuse to talk about it?  Lie? Selectively talk about the good parts, pretending everything was rosy?  Which is a segue to my second reason for disagreeing with the statement...

 

Abuse victims, especially childhood victims, are conditioned to not talk about it, and that conditioning is psychologically powerful stuff.  Long-term abusers are only able to continue because they have manipulated, frightened, and shamed their victims into never talking about it.  Maybe even never thinking about it consciously when it isn't happening.  I am glad that Shirin talks openly about what happened, not only for her personal recovery from a horrible situation, but because abuse survivors carry so much guilt and shame with them anyway, and the more survivors talk about it the more other victims will see that none of that guilt and shame should be theirs to bear.  I hope some poor kid who is currently getting the shit kicked out of him regularly can look at this beautiful, successful survivor of childhood trauma and realizes that a) he doesn't deserve to be treated this way and b) he can grow up to be a strong and successful and good person.  The abuse I suffered as a kid was different, but when I was 25 I wasn't making my first million, I was dragging my sorry ass through the doors of AA after 13 years of extremely destructive alcoholism and addiction.  And sadly, that is a far more likely path for abuse victims than making millions in your 20's.  I talk about my abusive past regularly and it has nothing to do with playing the victim; sadly, it is usually while working with others with drug/alcohol problems who are still trying to come to terms the crap they went through as kids.  I'm a pretty good role model now for showing you can live a successful life despite childhood trauma, and in my opinion we need everyone we can get to talk about this kind of stuff in order to help those who are still struggling. So I'm thrilled that Shirin is open about her traumatic past, and I personally hope she continues to use her success story to raise awareness and help others.  And to help everyone (not just abuse survivors) understand that the victim holds none of the blame and has no reason to feel guilt or shame or be uncomfortable about talking about it.

 

My next comment doesn't relate to the quote above:  The other thing I keep reading over and over, in interviews with other contestants and on these boards, is that everyone hated Shirin, with the implication that somehow this makes it OK or understandable that people treated her like shit.  Well, plenty of posters have pointed out that not everyone hated her, but I keep thinking: even if they did, so what?  Would that make it OK to pile on and viciously attack her?  Not even remotely, in my book.  The way you treat social outcasts says more to me about you as a person than the way you treat your friends.  I recognize that they were playing Survivor and weren't in summer camp, but you can still treat people with basic human decency and kindness even if you don't like them, even if you're playing Survivor, even if nobody else likes them.  Maybe especially if nobody else likes them. 

[Stinamaia]

Exactly. They all remember what makes them look good and the others looks bad. Which, you know, I guess I can't blame them for that. We all do it!

 

I don't really think Shirin speaking up to Will has anything to do with Will's attack on her. Will is still shitty, that was still a super gross display from him, and I still feel pretty confident it was largely religion based. I've said it before but if Shirin was attacking Will personally as well, then she will also look bad, but Will won't suddenly look good if that's the case. And even if Shirin did speak up (which actually we were shown her speaking up so I don't know why Tyler's whining anyway) I can still understand her being hurt by no one saying/doing anything.

 

I honestly am not a huge Shirin fan, but I just can't fathom her being so bad that some of these people act as if she's an evil, crazy monster. And personally I am more likely to believe the opinions of Jenn/Joe/Hali/Sierra/Mike than Tyler/Dan/Will/Rodney/all the other pre-jury losers

yeah, I agree that Shirin's statement about Carolyn doesn't mean Carolyn was actually there, but that Carolyn didn't defend her. I personally don't see that Carolyn being upset with Will meant that she was defending Shirin but rather she was worried about one of her alliance mate getting in trouble. I don't know all the ins and outs of it through. Mike, on the other hand, was defending his alliance mate. We don't know how he would have acted if he had been in an alliance with Will. I'd like to think that it would have been the same, but I don't know.

I can see that Shrin gets on people's nerves. She isn't particularly sensitive to how she affects others. Maybe Will felt that she looked down on him and he was more sensitive to that than others might be. I have no idea what pushed his buttons. I don't even know what soulless means because either everyone has a soul or everyone does not. I can see how Shirin may have seen that it had something to do with her lack of faith. I am not a believer, but that statement would not have stung me as it did Shirin because I would think, "yeah, neither do you."

[peachmangosteen]

Bravo to your post, RescueMom. I've said it tons of times already, but all the 'playing the victim' talk sets my teeth on edge pretty much anytime I hear it, but in this particular case it's just outright gross to me.
 

The other thing I keep reading over and over, in interviews with other contestants and on these boards, is that everyone hated Shirin, with the implication that somehow this makes it OK or understandable that people treated her like shit.  Well, plenty of posters have pointed out that not everyone hated her, but I keep thinking: even if they did, so what?  Would that make it OK to pile on and viciously attack her?  Not even remotely, in my book.  The way you treat social outcasts says more to me about you as a person than the way you treat your friends.  I recognize that they were playing Survivor and weren't in summer camp, but you can still treat people with basic human decency and kindness even if you don't like them, even if you're playing Survivor, even if nobody else likes them.  Maybe especially if nobody else likes them.

Wow. This. I wasn't even really thinking of that, but you hit the nail on the head there.
 

I am not a believer, but that statement would not have stung me as it did Shirin because I would think, "yeah, neither do you."

I mean, that statement wouldn't bother me either. But Shirin, with a background in the Muslim religion and having to deal with all the stereotypes and prejudices they receive, hearing that from a very vocal Christian man, yea, I can see that bringing up some stuff.

Of course, I am working on the assumption that there was more to the Will/Shirin relationship than just that one blowup. IMO there has to have been more between them because otherwise Will's blowup just really doesn't make any sense at all.

Edited May 23, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Stinamaia]

I am going to respectfully but strongly disagree with this statement for 2 reasons.  First, everyone says that they have so much down time when playing where there is literally nothing to do.  I would imagine the topics of family and childhood come up over and over.  What was she supposed do do?  Refuse to talk about it?  Lie? Selectively talk about the good parts, pretending everything was rosy?  Which is a segue to my second reason for disagreeing with the statement...

 

Abuse victims, especially childhood victims, are conditioned to not talk about it, and that conditioning is psychologically powerful stuff.  Long-term abusers are only able to continue because they have manipulated, frightened, and shamed their victims into never talking about it.  Maybe even never thinking about it consciously when it isn't happening.  I am glad that Shirin talks openly about what happened, not only for her personal recovery from a horrible situation, but because abuse survivors carry so much guilt and shame with them anyway, and the more survivors talk about it the more other victims will see that none of that guilt and shame should be theirs to bear.  I hope some poor kid who is currently getting the shit kicked out of him regularly can look at this beautiful, successful survivor of childhood trauma and realizes that a) he doesn't deserve to be treated this way and b) he can grow up to be a strong and successful and good person.  The abuse I suffered as a kid was different, but when I was 25 I wasn't making my first million, I was dragging my sorry ass through the doors of AA after 13 years of extremely destructive alcoholism and addiction.  And sadly, that is a far more likely path for abuse victims than making millions in your 20's.  I talk about my abusive past regularly and it has nothing to do with playing the victim; sadly, it is usually while working with others with drug/alcohol problems who are still trying to come to terms the crap they went through as kids.  I'm a pretty good role model now for showing you can live a successful life despite childhood trauma, and in my opinion we need everyone we can get to talk about this kind of stuff in order to help those who are still struggling. So I'm thrilled that Shirin is open about her traumatic past, and I personally hope she continues to use her success story to raise awareness and help others.  And to help everyone (not just abuse survivors) understand that the victim holds none of the blame and has no reason to feel guilt or shame or be uncomfortable about talking about it.

 

My next comment doesn't relate to the quote above:  The other thing I keep reading over and over, in interviews with other contestants and on these boards, is that everyone hated Shirin, with the implication that somehow this makes it OK or understandable that people treated her like shit.  Well, plenty of posters have pointed out that not everyone hated her, but I keep thinking: even if they did, so what?  Would that make it OK to pile on and viciously attack her?  Not even remotely, in my book.  The way you treat social outcasts says more to me about you as a person than the way you treat your friends.  I recognize that they were playing Survivor and weren't in summer camp, but you can still treat people with basic human decency and kindness even if you don't like them, even if you're playing Survivor, even if nobody else likes them.  Maybe especially if nobody else likes them.

In the bible, Jesus says, "As ye do to the least of these, so do ye do unto me." Or something like that depending on the translation, my memory, etc. That aptly sums up your point. It's a standard we all hope to meet, but sadly scapegoating and casting people out is a very human failing.

While I agree with you about the secret keeping being destructive, one also needs to be careful about sharing these details. I'm happy that the light went on in my twenties that although the details of my childhood may have been other people's secrets, they certainly were not mine. However, I have learned that there are uncrupulous or angry people who will use those details to hurt. I don't give everyone the ammunition. It's not a secret, but it's also something I've worked through in my own mind, and I don't need to talk about it or burden other people with it. It's also a matter of pride. I don't view myself as a broken or persecuted person, and I don't want others to view me that way.

I don't know what went on out there. It is possible Shirin shared this part of her life to garner sympathy. She certainly did not share the more successful parts of her life. I don't know how it all came out. There are many possibilities.

One time I took a psychological test, and the professional telling me the results cautioned me not to share the results with others because it could boomerang on me. She said this even though there was nothing pathological or damning on the test, but she was quite firm. In later years, I saw her wisdom.

[RescueMom]

While I agree with you about the secret keeping being destructive, one also needs to be careful about sharing these details. I'm happy that the light went on in my twenties that although the details of my childhood may have been other people's secrets, they certainly were not mine. However, I have learned that there are uncrupulous or angry people who will use those details to hurt. I don't give everyone the ammunition. It's not a secret, but it's also something I've worked through in my own mind, and I don't need to talk about it or burden other people with it. It's also a matter of pride. I don't view myself as a broken or persecuted person, and I don't want others to view me that way.

 

I can understand and respect your position here.  I am very open about every aspect of my life but it definitely can give people ammo against you.  For me personally, I have decided the risk of that doesn't outweigh the potential good that I can do for others.  And bravo for the statement that I bolded!

 

 

I don't know what went on out there. It is possible Shirin shared this part of her life to garner sympathy. She certainly did not share the more successful parts of her life. I don't know how it all came out. There are many possibilitie

 

Agreed, we don't know what was said out there.  I was specifically addressing a comment that was made on this forum that stated, "She says she told -- not just one or two trusted people -- but everyone about her abusive childhood.  That's playing the victim card."  I strongly disagreed with that statement, and my post was specific to that.  Telling people about her childhood does not automatically mean she was "playing the victim card."

Edited May 23, 2015 by RescueMom

[Stinamaia]

Of course, I am working on the assumption that there was more to the Will/Shirin relationship than just that one blowup. IMO there has to have been more between them because otherwise Will's blowup just really doesn't make any sense at all.

Yes. There had to be more. But, clearly Will lost his temper and said things he shouldn't have said. He's too old to act like that. I mean to me it's a bit like domestic violence. Yes, maybe your partner was instigating and saying/doing horrible things, but you still aren't excused in the least for physical violence. Find another way to handle the situation.

[Stinamaia]

I can understand and respect your position here.  I am very open about every aspect of my life but it definitely can give people ammo against you.  For me personally, I have decided the risk of that doesn't outweigh the potential good that I can do for others.  And bravo for the statement that I bolded!

 

All in all, I have been very fortunate in my life. Others have been dealt a far worse hand in life than I. I admire your willingness to share your story to help others. I don't think sharing my story would help anybody. I think I had some unique good fortune that helped me and so I don't have life lessons to pass on except -- get lucky! :D

 

Agreed, we don't know what was said out there.  I was specifically addressing a comment that was made on this forum that stated, "She says she told -- not just one or two trusted people -- but everyone about her abusive childhood.  That's playing the victim card."  I strongly disagreed with that statement, and my post was specific to that.  Telling people about her childhood does not automatically mean she was "playing the victim card."

Card talk in particular is irritating even if what is meant to be expressed has some validity because it disparages discussion about sensitive subjects. For example when an African American speaks about what it is like to experience discrimination, that person is sometimes accused of playing the race card. No, the person is simply trying to elucidate the experience. Of one must use this phrase at all, it is perhaps better used when a person is trying to excuse behavior because of race or victim hood etc. even then I don't like it because the meaning is too vague and perjorative.

[SlackerInc]

The other thing I keep reading over and over, in interviews with other contestants and on these boards, is that everyone hated Shirin, with the implication that somehow this makes it OK or understandable that people treated her like shit.  Well, plenty of posters have pointed out that not everyone hated her, but I keep thinking: even if they did, so what?  Would that make it OK to pile on and viciously attack her?  Not even remotely, in my book.  The way you treat social outcasts says more to me about you as a person than the way you treat your friends.  I recognize that they were playing Survivor and weren't in summer camp, but you can still treat people with basic human decency and kindness even if you don't like them, even if you're playing Survivor, even if nobody else likes them.  Maybe especially if nobody else likes them. 

 

Sooooo much this!  It's ironic coming from a "Christian" who apparently missed most of what Jesus said and somehow heard "God wants us to call out ugly".  But even leaving religion out of it, there are people who are active bullies, and then there are people who just look for social proof, look to go with the herd, and when someone is being singled out and made an omega, they are all too eager to join in, to fit in with the others and not be the omega themselves.  And being a follow-along like that is in some ways more contemptible than being an early instigator.

I've said over and over that I think Shirin is really cool and in fact too cool for most ordinary people to appreciate.  I always thought Cochran was, if not quite as cool, an interesting and intelligent guy as well.  But I also get incensed by this kind of ganging up on someone even if they're not particularly awesome in any particular way.  Christina from One World seemed perfectly nice, though also perfectly bland and forgettable.  But the way she was singled out as someone weak who could be bullied made my blood boil.

[BigRedCheese]

I really held out hope for Will, I was hoping that he would give a full throated apology to Shirin at the reunion, but instead, he gave a grudging (I believe a producer must have insisted on it) passive aggressive non apology, filled with qualifications. Then, gave a weird apology to Shirin's family, who he knows she doesn't speak to because of abuse, the implication being that he's apologizing to them for not going after her even harder than he actually did. The way he looked at her with such disdain and hatred was truly unsettling. It's hard to believe, but to me, he actually came off worse at the reunion than he did during his hate filled rant on the show!

[NutMeg]

It's hard to believe, but to me, he actually came off worse at the reunion than he did during his hate filled rant on the show!

 

This. Sleep and food deprivation can sometimes explain acting in a way people wouldn't otherwise (as anyone who had a baby that wouldn't sleep at night can attest). However, still behaving like a lunatic months after the fact? Does not make me inclined to give the benefit of the doubt here.  

[SlackerInc]

According to Will, Shirin in fact did not tell everyone about her abusive childhood:
 

Because, like Dan said, we didn’t know about her past. She never talked to us about her abuse that she went through. We had no idea.

 

And that is reminding me that Dan did say much the same.  

 

Notice here that the Shirin detractors have their spin ready either way:

 

"Shirin told everyone--playing the victim card.  Pathetic."

 

"Shirin didn't tell anyone, so they can't be blamed for saying awful or violent things to or about her."

Edited May 24, 2015 by SlackerInc

[choclatechip45]

Has anyone else besides Will and Dan said they didn't know about her childhood abuse?

[BigRedCheese]

I don't care if they knew or not, but when Will did find out about it, he still refused to apologize, and doubled down on everything he said. As much as I dislike Dan, I do buy that in his own delusional mind, he was trying to be funny. Will viciously attacked somebody he saw as weaker because he hated them, for what reason, who knows. We know it wasn't because of the food thing because he had no problem with Jenn over it, and he only yelled at Mike (making sure to sit down first) for standing up for Shirin. There's something else there with him and his bizarre hatred of Shirin, and it's not something he wants to say publicly.

[kikaha]

Notice here that the Shirin detractors have their spin ready either way:

 

"Shirin told everyone--playing the victim card.  Pathetic."

 

Shirin herself said she told everyone.  I can probably dig up the quote.  I'm sure she said this, though. 

[Sarahendipity]

How did Will know that 'no one in the United states is missing you' if Shirin hadn't said anything?

[Stinamaia]

The problem is that we will never know the answers to these questions. Neither Will nor Shrin is a reliable narrator. Our memories tend to reconstruct events. In fact, studies have shown that in the first year after an event, memories shift remarkably, After the first year, they remain the same. For instance, a couple who were on the plane that landed in the Hudson praised the airline attendant for singlehanded extinguishing a flame that broke out by repeatedly pounding a blanket on top of it. They remembered the sounds of the pounding and the sounds she made while doing it. The attendant says she did not put out a flame, and evidence says there was no fire on the plane. This couple was not lying, but memories are fickle things.

We are not going to know what happened exactly unless we have the raw footage and even then we might not have the whole story. The bottom line is that Will said things he should not have said despite feeling provoked. I also propose that he is not therefore a dispicipable human being unworthy of any consideration whatsoever, I don't like ganging upon him either.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Stinamaia

[kikaha]

Before the season began, Shirin bragged in some interviews about how much she lies and manipulates people -- in real life as well as games.  Some quotes:

 

“Lying comes easy to me. It’s like my first language.”

 

And... “Morons are great to play with. You figure out what their needs are and make sure that they’re being met. It’s the stereotype that you get a couple of young girls who don’t know what they’re doing. They’re looking for mommy/daddy figures. As long as you’re keeping them happy and keeping them fed, they’re don’t realize they’re playing a game and will vote the way you want them to vote. It’s easy to get them to hate somebody.”

 

She also said, in another interview, “I'm super smart, observant, and don't let my emotions govern my actions at work, let alone in games. I have no qualms with using people or their secrets to get ahead."

 

To me those statements describe an elitist, who thinks she's smarter than everyone, easily stereotypes others as morons (who she gleefully manipulates to achieve her own ends) and whose ethical code is buried pretty deep under her desire to get ahead. 

 

If she respects you, I think she acts very nice and charming.  If she doesn't -- if she groups you among the morons -- you're fair game for her manipulations.  That's my take on her, anyway.  I suspect she did not respect Will or Dan, and treated them accordingly. 

 

It's sadly ironic that she mocks young women for their daddy issues -- when the major theme she created for herself this season suggests she has major daddy issues herself.  It's also ironic that she is so willing to use people's secrets against them -- when one of the 'morons' turned that table upside down against her, and used a secret she says she told everyone, against her. 

 

Even as I say all this, I don't dislike Shirin.  I'd probably find her interesting in real life, and fun to be around.  I hope she goes far in s31, maybe pulls a Cochran and turns around her second season in a dramatic, positive way.  

 

But right now I don't trust her -- and feel she will do anything to be the center of attention. 

[BigRedCheese]

 

Will said things he should not have said despite feeling provoked.

 

But we know that's not why he viciously attacked Shirin on a personal level, if it was, he would have been just as mad at Jenn and Mike, and he wasn't mad at Jenn at all. He was only mad at Mike for stepping up for Shirin, he used the food thing as an excuse. Whatever the reason in his head is, I'm sure can only be understood by him.

 

 

he is not therefore a dispicipable human being unworthy of any consideration whatsoever

 

I would love to see evidence that he is not a despicable human being, I had hoped to see that at the reunion, and he only behaved in an even more despicable manner. Of course he's worthy of consideration, I hope he does recognize his foul behavior one day, and makes a sincere public apology for what he did out there, and at the reunion, until then, I see no reason to overlook his vile behavior.

[Zuleikha]

How did Will know that 'no one in the United states is missing you' if Shirin hadn't said anything?

 

Piecing people's comments together, my guess is that everyone knew Shirin was estranged from her family. They have a lot of time; that would have come up. But until that Tribal Council, Shirin never explained that she was estranged from her family because she had been abused by them. Her phrasing when she talked to Will (something like "Do you want to know why I have no family?") could easily have fit a first time revelation. Depending on the context of the interview where Shirin said she told everyone, it is possible for both Shirin and Dan/Will to be making accurate statements. We know Shirin told everyone because we saw that happen, at the very least, at Tribal Council. So the question is whether she was asked whether Will or Dan already knew or whether she was asked whether people knew in general. I remember Hali taking a bit of heat for describing Shirin as a domestic abuse survivor at the Dan episode (which was before the Survivor episode aired that showed Shirin telling everyone), so my guess is that Shirin was asked whether that was public knowledge and Shirin said she told everyone. I may be giving them too much credit, but I don't think Dan and Will would both lie about something that the other castaways could so easily refute.

[LadyChatts]

I'm sticking with the theory that the castoffs all have an imaginary season made up in their minds.  If it wasn't on TV, I'd probably say the whole experience was all a figment of their imaginations.  For the people who spoke out about Shirin, they seem to be the ones having to do the most damage control.

[SlackerInc]

To me those statements describe an elitist, who thinks she's smarter than everyone, easily stereotypes others as morons

 

Yup, and that's what kind of person I like, because that's easily how I could be described as well, at least in the "half empty" version.

[AZChristian]

Just catching up on the boards after being gone for a few days.

 

Regarding the speculation that Shirin was playing the "victim card" . . . she might have been telling the same story and relating the information as a sign of her being a "vicTOR," not a "vicTIM."  It's all a matter of the perspective of each of the other people in the area.  And maybe one youtube "star" of a different religious background felt that the successful young woman needed to be knocked BACK down a peg.  I guess we all know who came out as the "vicTOR" in that scenario.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm sticking with the theory that the castoffs all have an imaginary season made up in their minds.  If it wasn't on TV, I'd probably say the whole experience was all a figment of their imaginations.

 

This. It's very fascinating.

[SlackerInc]

[Hera]

I was in the thread about Season 31 and I realized that I don't really want to see Shirin come back. I feel bad about the way she was treated in this last season, but I don't rate her as a player at all. For someone who apparently talked strategy all the time, she never appeared to try to enact anything—the only move I remember her trying to make was to flip from the rapidly-dwindling Nagarote alliance to Mike's (right before he fell out with his alliance), but even that was her basically pleading with Mike to tell her how to vote. And unlike people like Kass, Keith, or Joe (who I also don't think are very good players), she didn't even manage to get in the way of the good players. Kass blew up her alliance for no reason, Joe can win immunities and mess up people's plans that way (he can also make a very convincing fake hidden immunity idol), and Keith doesn't always know or understand what his allies are trying to do and so ends up getting in their way by accident.

 

You could take Shirin out of every vote this season and still get the same results (even for the Joe vote, because either Jenn wastes her vote again and forces a tie  with Joe going home on the revote, or she votes for Joe outright). We can debate whether Will is as much of a goat or how the jury would vote in the absence of Shirin and her game, but the fact that that's the only discussion of her impact to be had says it all to me. Nobody changed their strategy because of anything Shirin did directly and the only reason she made it to the merge and beyond is because she wasn't good in challenges or likely to siphon people away from their alliances, so the majority group knew that they could get rid of her whenever they wanted.

 

Edited for spelling. It's late and I should go to bed.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Hera

[Maverick]

I don't want Shrin back either. I feel bad for how she was treated but that doesn't make me like her. I can have sympathy for her past issues but that doesn't mean I want to see her deal with them on national TV. That shit was uncomfortable to watch and belongs on Peachy's defunct talk show, not Survivor.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Maverick

[Jextella]

Shirin doesn't so much for me, but I'm glad that she has a 2nd chance given her super-fandom of the show. Although, I think I would like to have seen Max over her. He bugs me as much as she does, but I think he has the potential to be more entertaining.

I just can't sympathize with Shirin much. As harsh as it is, I just want to say "boo-hoo! move on already!"

I think Will has more capacity to learn from this than Shirin. She just can't let it go. Sad for her more than anything.

[ByaNose]

I just hope she does better at the individual challenges. For some reason, I thought she would better at them being a super fan. I know that doesn't make sense but I thought she was going to be a force and it ended up being Carolyn & Sierra. It will be interesting to see if anyone wants to work with her since they know her whole story & game. Both her and Joe season is so fresh in everyone's mind. Will it be a help or a hindrance?

[LadyChatts]

I just hope she does better at the individual challenges. For some reason, I thought she would better at them being a super fan. I know that doesn't make sense but I thought she was going to be a force and it ended up being Carolyn & Sierra. It will be interesting to see if anyone wants to work with her since they know her whole story & game. Both her and Joe season is so fresh in everyone's mind. Will it be a help or a hindrance?

 

For Joe, I think it will be a hindrance.  Shirin, I'm not sure.  I still expect her to be something like Sugar was in HvsV and wind up being super annoying and clingy.  But if Shirin has no social game and is content to just be told how to vote and what to do, they may see her as someone beatable down the road.  I also expected more from Shirin, being a superfan, and not just from a challenge stand point but also a better social game.  When the merge happened, and it was coming out that she was getting on people's nerves, I figured there had to be some strategy there, or some move was brewing and she was waiting for the perfect time.  Like all the super fans last season, she fell flat.  I don't know if these people were just too in love with the experience and being on the show that they forgot what they were doing.  If anything does Shirin in, it might be the fact that there was so much drama surrounding her this past season, and the others may not want to see their season hijacked.  Granted, it wasn't exactly Shirin's fault that the season took a nasty turn, and really, the only issues regarding her and drama were somewhat minor in the big picture of things.  But it obviously dominated the conversation and took up a huge chunk of the reunion.

[wonald]

Sadly for me (bc I can't stand her) I think there are several people who would - and probably will work - with her. Savage is one; they know each other from Yahoo. Spencer is another. I am not even including Joe since I don't think they are as close as people think.

[ByaNose]

I had heard that she & Savage worked for Yahoo but I wasn't sure if they actually knew each other. Maybe, she learned how annoying she was and can change that this time around. Of course, there is that little issue of her mentioning she has already made a million dollars at age 25. That might come back to bite her in the Survivor butt. Granted, she said that months ago (Aug/Sept 2014) and, she couldn't have imagined that it would make it to air and that she would be picked to play Survivor again. Let alone back to back.

Edited May 31, 2015 by ByaNose

[wonald]

Why do I know these things that I thought was common knowledge?

Meeting Savage was one of the incentives offered to Shirin, the Supahfan, to come to Yahoo. I believe that there is at least one pic of her and Savage together on her twitter account if not more.

[choclatechip45]

Wait Yahoo offered her the chance to meet Savage if she accepted a job with them? I find that hilarious.

[LadyChatts]

Hilarious but stalkerish.  I mean, there's being a super fan, but seriously, is she going to steal contestants clothes and other personal items at the reunion to take home to a shrine she had hidden in a closet?

 

I don't know that I see Spencer working with her.  Some people thought they looked close onstage after the announcement, and were talking, but why that automatically means they were in an alliance together I don't know.  I don't know that she seems like the kind of person Spencer would want to align with.  Maybe the first time, but with this second chances (and for some, it may literally by their second and last chance) I don't know if he'd want to have a sheep following him around.  Of course, getting people in your alliance that won't flip on you first and vote however you tell them may work out for someone like Spencer, who no doubt has a huge target on his back going in.  Somehow, I feel like he'll be how Ozzy was in Micronesia, and get blindsided by his biggest ally out there.  Also, the Yahoo connection aside, I also don't know if I see her and Savage aligning together.  That might be too obvious.  And something tells me that, at least for Savage, this may be his last time returning.

 

What I would find hilarious is if TPTB are reading boards like this and tripping people up to find out who is aligned with who, just to ensure they are all split up when the season starts.  Maybe that's where the lack of bitterness from the 12 rejects really came from; they were offered a guarantee to return in the future if they gave up the alliances.

[choclatechip45]

I just can't believe they would legit offer that in a job offer. I know she made her first million at 25, but I would have asked for more vacation days and more money not to meet some ex survivor player who works for the company!

Edited May 31, 2015 by choclatechip45

[marys1000]

I kind of wondered why someone would leave google for yahoo, at least if they weren't actualy being shown the door.

[cherrypj]

I kind of wondered why someone would leave google for yahoo, at least if they weren't actualy being shown the door.

Melissa Mayer did.

[fishcakes]

I'm going to assume that the opportunity to meet Savage wasn't what clinched the deal. Also, I would guess if someone is a Survivor fan and wants to meet Savage, all they have to do is ask him. Someone on the old boards said her sister (? some relative, at any rate) saw Savage's email address on his firm's website and sent him a nice, "hey, really enjoyed you on Survivor" note and then couldn't get rid of the guy. He kept sending her these long emails talking about how he got screwed over by the Outcast twist.

 

I don't think Shirin's background will be an issue this time around, unless one of the other players is enough of a Willhole to get in her face about it. People are assuming that she was out there telling everyone about it before the Will incident, but we don't know that. Dan and Will say she plays the victim, but they also say they had no idea beforehand, so unless I hear from the NCs or Mike that she was out there introducing herself by saying, "Hi, I'm Shirin, I come from a home broken by domestic violence," then I'm going to believe that the first time she mentioned it was when we heard it on the show at Tribal Council. As long as no one treats her as badly as Will did, then I don't see her dwelling on her past. Frankly, I don't think she was doing that this season either. What Will did brought up some ugliness from her past, but all the blame for that should go to him, not her.

[ProfCrash]

Shirin's background was not an issue until Will attacked her. Then Will commented at tribal that she was playing the victim. We heard nothing about her abuse or Dan's being adopted until late in the season and only after Will used the fact that she did not have contact with her family to attack her.

[kikaha]

Shirin's background was not an issue until Will attacked her. Then Will commented at tribal that she was playing the victim. We heard nothing about her abuse or Dan's being adopted until late in the season and only after Will used the fact that she did not have contact with her family to attack her.

 

We the audience heard nothing.  But Shirin says it was no secret to the other contestants: she told everyone. 

 

Does Shirin really not have contact with her family?  She talks about financially supporting her mother.  She also has had a boyfriend for years now, that she says is like being married.  i.e. my impression, from things she said, is that she has loved ones and family back home. 

 

Shirin says lying is like her first language.  That makes me take the things she -- an admitted, proud liar -- says with a grain of salt.  How do I know when a liar is telling the truth? 

[ProfCrash]

I think people knew she didn't have contact with her family, hence Will's comment. I don't think they knew why she didn't have contact with them. Which is why she said at tribal do you want to know why I don't. She also mentioned her boyfriend at tribal.

I have no idea what type of relationship she has with her mother. You can support some one financially and not be close to that person.

I don't think Shirin told them about the abuse. If she had and Will said what he did he is even more of an asshole then I thought.

[kikaha]

Prof. C: here's Shirin's exact quote, from an interview she did before the season started...

 

"“Lying comes easy to me. It’s like my first language.”

 

So again I wonder, how do you know what is true and what is not, from someone who brags about how easily she lies? 

[Zuleikha]

But Shirin says it was no secret to the other contestants: she told everyone.

Of course, it was no secret and she told everyone. We saw her tell everyone at Tribal Council. That doesn't mean she told everyone prior to that point or constantly talked about her past in more detail than that she was estranged.

 

I kind of wondered why someone would leave google for yahoo, at least if they weren't actualy being shown the door.

My acquaintances who worked with her said that she and Marissa are close friends, so I'm pretty sure the opportunity to meet Savage was a bonus and she left Google to work for Marissa at Yahoo.