S30: Shirin Oskooi

[ProfCrash]

http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/second-chance/

[Lantern7]

Does anybody know if Shirin was recruited or if she applied for the show? I'm guessing the latter, but I don't want to make an automatic assumption.

[ProfCrash]

She applied when she turned 21. She was considered for Fans vs Favorites

[Special K]

She applied when she turned 21. She was considered for Fans vs Favorites

 

I love Shirin, but can you imagine her on Survivor at the age of 21!?!

[lovedoldGreys]

I love Shirin!  I hope she returns :)

[marys1000]

I have no personal dislike of Shirin and actually stuck up for her a little after no bottoms monkey sex ep. but few liked her until she got treated meanly. Now that will likely get her her own season 31 win just like Cochrane. I could not watch that season and wont be happy if if Shirin is on 31. I feel strongly that her game play does not merit it and if Will hadnt yelled at her I think she'd be a blip.

[BigRedCheese]

I can only speak for myself, but I really liked Shirin before the Will blow up, but I also really liked Will. I might find my way to liking him again if he can man up and reflect on what he did, understand how fundamentally wrong it was, and make a sincere apology.

[Jextella]

I can only speak for myself, but I really liked Shirin before the Will blow up, but I also really liked Will. I might find my way to liking him again if he can man up and reflect on what he did, understand how fundamentally wrong it was, and make a sincere apology.

I like Shirin and Will, but I did like both more prior to the blow-up.  In my book, Shirin hit Will at his core when she questioned his sharing.  I would have been pissed as hell too. Being tired and hungry yet sharing every morsel of food I found only for others to question the manner in which I shared would have sent me over the edge, too.  They were lucky to get a fruit chip.  Kinda like Rodney whining about his birthday. Shut up already and be happy with what you got instead of laying it on the heels of others.

 

Will over reacted in equally personal ways which was unfortunate.  My point is that each hit the other with personal insults.  Shirin is not innocent in this.  And....

 

Being in the throes of the game, tired, hungry, etc. wears a person down and it is natural that some drift off and behave in extreme ways they would never do under normal circumstances.  We see it every season.  This year, we've seen it with Mike, Rodney, Will, and likely Shirin.  Being off the island, rested, fed, and with the time to reflect, the fact that Shrin keeps on whining about it post-show makes her seem more of a baby than Rodney and less redeemable than Will.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Jextella

[Skeeter22]

I don't think Will has any right at all to be angry at Shirin because she questioned his integrity. He told the no collars that Shirin flipped on them to explain his own votes after the merge. It's why the no collars still thought he was with them. He had no integrity (which is fine because it's Survivor) and he knew Shirin knew. He knew he was lying about Shirin, but Shirin was only speculating about his food stash.

I don't particularly like Shirin. I think she must be aggressively annoying based on what we saw on the show. None of that means she deserved to be treated like human garbage.

I don't have a problem with Shirin still being angry with Dan and Will. Neither of them have attempted to make amends with her, and Dan's worst comments about her only came to light when the show aired. He's still defending what he said. If she's still going on about it after the season ends, then I'll think it's time to let it go.

[BigRedCheese]

 

In my book, Shirin hit Will at his core when she questioned his sharing.

 

We are operating from different books then, that's just game play. If Will had withheld food, that would also be game play, like Richard Hatch said, you would have to be an idiot in the game of Survivor to not question whether or not someone withheld food from a stash they were given. Attacking her on her personal relationships outside of the game, and even her religion (claiming she doesn't have a soul, and then defending that at tribal as a true statement), it was so far outside the bounds of the game as to be...I don't even know what. But it's all been said over and over, if you view it differently, that's fine, we just see it differently.

[LadyChatts]

Well, I can't entirely blame Will for that move.  Hali did question whether he flipped but he saved himself.  And Joe convinced Hali they were all still solid.  I guess I'd say that's pretty smart strategy. 

 

In a way I'm almost glad that Shirin may end up on S31.  Since I think Dan and Will will both at least make the final 5, that means their post show interviews won't come until after the finale.  Which means after the S31 cast is on their way to filming in Cambodia.  Since I feel like every Ponderosa vid is going to be the Shirin show, I'm just glad she won't be around to have a rebuttal to everything they say that she disagrees with.  Dan did give her an apology on twitter, even if it came after he received backlash (this was before the Will incident).  She kind of gave a vague response about 140 characters not being enough.  I don't know, I just feel like she's lapping all this attention up.  And since she still is down on Will and Dan (probably rightfully so) she likely enjoys it even more that they are getting it so bad.  Which again, they likely deserve, although I think death threats go too far.  Hopefully she can move on.

[peachmangosteen]

Shirin donated $2300 for the acts of misogyny this season and Mike added $200 to make it $2500 in total that she donated to NNEDV.

[Special K]

I like Shirin and fully support her existence. :-)  But in general, I don't think contestants should be returned so soon.  I feel this way about Joe and others from WA, and felt this way about Malcolm.

 

It's always better when they have a chance (and not just 6 months or whatever) to reflect on the experience and get back to their lives for a while.  Cochran is kind of an exception since it was only about a year between his two seasons, but he had grown so much and brought so much that was "new" to the game, that it worked (and he totally deserved to win IMO).

 

So while I'd like to see Shirin again on Survivor, I just wish it wasn't so soon.

Shirin donated $2300 for the acts of misogyny this season and Mike added $200 to make it $2500 in total that she donated to NNEDV.

 

I would pay cash money to see the list of 23 acts of misogyny!

[ProfCrash]

Malcolm and Russell were screwed because they went back before their seasons aired. They had no idea how their game was received by the people they were playing with. Not seeing the talking heads and reactions to episode hurt them because they didn't know what they needed to do differently. Russell thought he had won so he played the same game. Malcolm knew that he had not won but might have benefited from some time to reflect on how he had played. Also, they were both physically weaker because they had not had an opportunity to recover from their first play.

 

The folks returning from Season 30 will have seen the talking heads and interviews and reactions to their game play and will have a better idea of what they need to do differently. They also have had time to recover from the experience and get to know other Survivors so they are in a better position then Malcolm and Russell.

[Lantern7]

I wish her the best going into S31, even though the sympathy might produce a backlash within the game, and she went on record as saying she made a million bucks already. In the finale thread, I said that she would be a cover band, albeit a kickass cover band. Sure, she quoted Sue Hawk and took a hit off the marker like Greg Buis, but I'm glad a fan will be getting another shot at the prize.

[ProfCrash]

I think that everyone playing Season 31 knew that she was a millionaire before she said that at Tribal. All you have to do is look at her bio. Andrew Savage is in the same boat.

 

There are enough people who stand out that she should be fine if she tones down her conversation and just tries to chill. The good news is that people should be on their best behavior when it comes to blatantly sexist and violent things.

[Jersey Guy 87]

I think playing back-to-back seasons is tough for anyone but it will be especially tough for Shirin.  People know what buttons to push with her, she hasn't had a lot of time to recover and she's off again.

 

Glad she called out Will again during the reunion.

[SlackerInc]

Me too, and also glad she didn't succumb to the pressure to accept his bogus apology.  I really hate how social expectations tend to orient in these cases of bullying: no matter how horrible the bully was, no matter how pressured and insincere the apology, the person who was bullied gets the stinkeye from everyone if they don't graciously accept the apology.  Then if they do accept it, everyone acts as though the books are balanced, everything's fine now.  Ugh.

[Bryce Lynch]

Me too, and also glad she didn't succumb to the pressure to accept his bogus apology. I really hate how social expectations tend to orient in these cases of bullying: no matter how horrible the bully was, no matter how pressured and insincere the apology, the person who was bullied gets the stinkeye from everyone if they don't graciously accept the apology. Then if they do accept it, everyone acts as though the books are balanced, everything's fine now. Ugh.

Will's apology seemed sincere and apparently it was the 3rd one she rejected.

Shirin LOVES being a "victim" so she consciously or subconsciously behaves in ways that will make people dislike her and never puts any slight behind her. I feel sorry for her, but even more sorry for the unfortunate people who have to deal with her lunacy.

[BigRedCheese]

It was a backhanded apology at best, he put qualifications on it, and also made a point of apologizing to her family, which was just plain weird considering everything she's said about how they abused her. What was he apologizing to them for, not being abusive enough?

[Cousin Larry]

I think that everyone playing Season 31 knew that she was a millionaire before she said that at Tribal. All you have to do is look at her bio. Andrew Savage is in the same boat.

There are enough people who stand out that she should be fine if she tones down her conversation and just tries to chill. The good news is that people should be on their best behavior when it comes to blatantly sexist and violent things.

I think an All-Stat cast is less likely to be bothered by someone's financial success. Most of these people are successes in in way or another, and they're more likely to be in it for the competitive factor than a windfall.

[ProfCrash]

I think an All-Stat cast is less likely to be bothered by someone's financial success. Most of these people are successes in in way or another, and they're more likely to be in it for the competitive factor than a windfall.

Agreed. Some folks have commented that they thought it was a mistake for her to have said that. I would also point out that when she made that comment she had no idea that there was going to be a vote on for Season 31. I do think it was an interesting way of framing for folks how important it was for Mike to have stepped in when he did. She was holding her own, like Tyler said in his interviews, but having someone step in to help her meant the world. It is one thing to be able to take care of yourself and know that you can take care of yourself and another thing to know that you can but you might not always need to because people care.

 

She also said in her final speech that that episode demonstrated to her that this was still an open wound and that she had thought it had been closed. I thought she came across as self aware in her comments to Will. I thought she came across like the Survivor geek that she is, the one who drove everyone crazy and was annoying, in her animal comparisons. You knew she was going there but I thought she did a decent job and actually summed up the game play pretty well. Mike was the howler monkey who was hyper and a bit all over the place and would respond when attacked. Carolyn was a sting ray that you don't see but will kill you if she felt threatened. Will as the poisonous dead fish was great.

[dolphincorn]

 

Will's apology seemed sincere and apparently it was the 3rd one she rejected.

 

It seemed like an attempt to save face to me, especially when his wife started bellowing in the audience when it wasn't accepted with conditions attached.

[ProfCrash]

According to Shirin he didn't apologize at Ponderosa, he tried to brush it off as game play. He sent a tweet, which is not how you apologize for anything, several days after the offending episode aired. Then there was last night which was a pretty shitty apology. For godsake, the man apologized to her family after she said that she didn't have connections with her family because she was verbally and physically abused. How does that come across as sincere?

[BigRedCheese]

Yeah, it seemed like a grudging apology, like a producer told him just to say he's sorry, and he couldn't quite bring himself to completely go through with it, and his wife definitely wasn't on board with it.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Will's apology seemed sincere and apparently it was the 3rd one she rejected.

 

 

I didn't see it as sincere at all.  It seemed rehearsed and prepared, a response to all the negative feedback he's received.  Also, Will, if you want to apologize you do so regardless of whether the person you are apologizing to is "ready" for you to apologize or not.  A true apology is just that, with no strings attached.  You realize it may not be accepted but you're truly sorry for your actions and ask for forgiveness.  You don't demand it or but other conditions on your apology.

[choclatechip45]

I've gone back and forth on Shirin's first million comment. She was out of the game and had no idea she would come back so soon. I can see why she would want to rub it in Wills face. With that being said I thought her whole speech was bizzare. I remember Rob C saying people in all stars were annoyed by all the questions he would ask about their seasons. I could see the same thing happening with Shirin.

Edited May 21, 2015 by choclatechip45

[jsm1125]

I'm not sure Shirin was ever after an apology, so much as she was after a somewhat cogent rationale for Will telling her that she has no soul.

[BigRedCheese]

And then insisting at tribal that he was telling the truth about her not having a soul.

[Stinamaia]

Last night, I was drifting off to sleep when suddenly a vision of Shrin talking excitedly to the other cast members about how much she knew about their seasons popped into my head. You know it's going to happen. She can't stop herself.

Shrin strikes me as an attention hound. She's more appealing than Dan, but she likes to hear herself talk just as much. She also has her prepared talking points. Will's apology was half-assed, but all she had to so was to say she accepted it but wanted to speak to him at length later about his "no soul" comment. Neither came off well in my opinion.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Stinamaia

[peachmangosteen]

Will's apology was half-assed, but all she had to so was to say she accepted it ...

 

Why should she (or anyone) accept an insincere apology? Or any apology for that matter. If people don't want to or aren't ready to accept an apology, that's fine.

 

I agree that she wasn't looking for an apology. She knew Will wasn't sorry and she wasn't going to accept it anyway, so the whole thing was futile. As jsm1125 said, she wanted an explanation on the 'no soul' statement. She wanted to make sure people saw it for what it was, a religious judgement.

Edited May 21, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Stinamaia]

Of course no one is obligated to accept an apology. In my opinion she could have gotten her point about the "no soul" comment across without rejecting the apology. I don't know if the "no soul" comment was religious in nature. As far as I know, Christian theology presumes every one has a soul, but the souls of non-believers are condemned after death (or possibly at the time of resurrection depending on the school of thought.) I'd be interested in hearing what Will thinks on the subject. It's an odd thing to say, and maybe it is attached to his particular Christian belief system, but I don't know that for sure.

To me, it seems Shirin has some trouble accepting apologies. She had trouble with Tyler's apology both during the game and after the game. Maybe that is also because of a difference in religious or cultural norms. I just don't know.

[peachmangosteen]

She has accepted Tyler's apology at this point though. Will's apology was pretty clearly insincere and he pretty obviously doesn't think he was wrong, so I would actually be disappointed in Shirin if she had accepted it just to 'look good.' The only reason Will tried to fake an apology is because he realized pretty much everyone thought he was wrong and that he looked bad. He just wanted to save face. I don't respect that. Shirin not accepting an obviously insincere apology that has caveats and managed to put her down yet again though, that I do respect.

Edited May 21, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

I think she has accepted Dan's apology as well. At least that was the impression I had last night.

[Dobian]

I have to credit Shirin for delivering the nuttiest speech since Sue Hawk.  That and Mike winning were among the only things that salvaged the season for me.

[liqidclark]

[Nothing to see here. Wrong thread.]

Edited May 21, 2015 by Liqidclark

[gunderda]

Dan's apology sounded way more sincere than Will's. But maybe Dan just has that type of voice.  But he seemed able to own up to his faults, but again, maybe he's just real good at putting on a game face.

[fishcakes]

Dan's apology last night did sound sincere, but he also sounded sincere when, during the game, he said he was sorry for what Will did to her and then turned right around in a confessional and called her a lying drama queen who loves to play the victim. And he's been talking crap about her in all his interviews for the past week, so I think what he said last night was all for show. This guy will go to his grave thinking he was the wronged party.

[scowl]

But Dan still didn't learn from this experience that you never talk about committing violence against anyone in any form when you're on a reality show. He seemed like he doesn't know what he's going to say until after he says it.

[gunderda]

Dan's apology last night did sound sincere, but he also sounded sincere when, during the game, he said he was sorry for what Will did to her and then turned right around in a confessional and called her a lying drama queen who loves to play the victim. And he's been talking crap about her in all his interviews for the past week, so I think what he said last night was all for show. This guy will go to his grave thinking he was the wronged party.

I commented sort of about this in one of the other threads.... Dan has a good voice and a good game face and it's really hard to tell if what he's saying is what he believe or if he's just saying what someone wants to hear.  I think he's a great actor like that. His apology to Shirin did sound very sincere but it's hard to know if that's how he really feels or if he was just putting on a good show.

 

oh wait, i said it in this thread - HAHA!  I'm getting confused with all this convo going on in separate areas.

Edited May 21, 2015 by gunderda

[Porkchop]

I was glad to read this comment by Jenn about the episode where Will spoke so viciously to Shirin:

 

Tom Santilli: Speaking of hating, how uncomfortable was it to sit back and watch Will unload and get so personal with Shirin?

Jenn: I was with Shirin, I was with Sierra, I was with Mike, I was with Hali, last night. We all watched the episode together with a giant group of friends, with my friends, Shirin's friends, Hali's friends up in the Bay area, and so we were all with Shirin for it. It was one of those things where we all knew it was coming, we knew it was going to happen but it was still unbelievable to actually see, because I wasn't there. I walked away, I wasn't going to deal with a bunch of people yelling up on the beach. So when I came back I had heard about it, obviously, but I hadn't seen it. It was shocking, it was horrible, it was one of the worst ways I've seen another person act towards another person. And it was really tough to watch, it was. It's one of those things where now, we can be like wow, hey, we're better people than Will was. It's also a little crazy because back home Shirin has this loving, amazing support system around her. Shadows of several middle fingers were showing up on the screen. People last night were yelling at the screen at Will. It was this crazy juxtaposition where there is this man yelling at her on screen telling her she has nothing and no one, when she literally has a warehouse full of people that do nothing but love her.

[marys1000]

Does anyone else see real comparisons between Cochran and Shirin?  Both terrible in challenges, super fans, smart but totally self-involved (did Cochran ever start one sentance in his first season that didn't start with "I"?), no social game.  And bullied so brought back.  Although I'm not sure JP has the outright ongoing  lurve for Shirin that he does for Cochran. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by marys1000

[peachmangosteen]

Although I'm not sure JP has the outright ongoing  lurve for Shirin that he does for Cochran. 

 

Well of course not, she's a woman, silly!

Edited May 22, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[SlackerInc]

I think an All-Stat cast is less likely to be bothered by someone's financial success. Most of these people are successes in in way or another, and they're more likely to be in it for the competitive factor than a windfall.

 

Yeah, and I was thinking this could be an angle Shirin could actually play if she got to a FTC.  I recall a couple times in the past when part of a player's pitch to the jury was that they were going to give a significant amount to charity if they got the million.  It seemed rather dubious and an obvious ploy.  But couldn't Shirin (or any wealthy player, and there have been a number of them over the years) make a promise to give it *all* away, and be believed?  This seems like a way to turn the "she doesn't need the money" mojo on its head.

 

Shadows of several middle fingers were showing up on the screen. People last night were yelling at the screen at Will. It was this crazy juxtaposition where there is this man yelling at her on screen telling her she has nothing and no one, when she literally has a warehouse full of people that do nothing but love her.

 

That's really awesome.  Good on Jenn!

 

Does anyone else see real comparisons between Cochran and Shirin?  Both terrible in challenges, super fans, smart but totally self-involved (did Cochran ever start one sentance in his first season that didn't start with "I"?), no social game.  And bullied so brought back.

 

I don't buy the "so" there--I don't think that's why either of them was brought back.  In fact, I don't agree with any of your negative depictions of either of them (as if Cochran won the second time with "no social game"?  Please).  I do see them as having some stuff in common, though, and I liked both of them immediately.  I was one who vociferously defended Cochran's decision to flip and blow up the games of the people who bullied him.

[Bryce Lynch]

Does anyone else see real comparisons between Cochran and Shirin? Both terrible in challenges, super fans, smart but totally self-involved (did Cochran ever start one sentance in his first season that didn't start with "I"?), no social game. And bullied so brought back. Although I'm not sure JP has the outright ongoing lurve for Shirin that he does for Cochran.

Both were superfan misfits, but Cochran was a sort of loveable misfit, who was much more self aware. Shirin was an unbearably annoying misfit who everyone seemed to despise.

The 2nd time around Cochran became a very skilled strategist and social player and won at least one challenge . I can't see Shirin going far in her 2nd chance. She is too irritating and irrational to even be carried as a goat.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[peachmangosteen]

Shirin was an unbearably annoying misfit who everyone seemed to despise.

This is blatantly false though. Everyone didn't despise her. Like at all. Max, Mike, Hali, Joe, Jenn, Sierra, Carolyn, and even Tyler didn't despise her.

Edited May 22, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

Shirin did not play a good game. She geeked out, she was eccentric, she talked too much and she was annoying. The three players that have had the strongest anti-Shirin reactions are Joaquin, Dan, and Will. No offense, but I am not using those three as a barometer for anything other then bromances.

 

Dan managed to have confrontations with Kelly, Sierra, Lindsey, Shirin, and Mike.  There have been interviews that referenced Dan's repeating the same stories, hell Rodney even did an impression where Dan goes into one of his stories, which annoyed people.

 

I don't remember Cochran's first game very well. I remember that he was an outcast and that he was treated poorly, I think bullied is appropriate by his castmates. I had not trouble with his flipping based on how badly he was treated but I didn't think he had a shot of winning with either alliance. I remember thinking that Cochran was almost in a Shambo situation where he just didn't fit with his original tribe and flipped because he was happy to be treated decently by some people. Shirin was an outcast who was bullied. She didn't flip, she didn't have the opportunity to flip.

 

Shirin will probably do fine in Season 31. I think that there are other folks who will be targeted before her. Based on social media and the like, Shirin has been well received in the Survivor community. Shirin's "cousin" attended a live Survivor Know It all Tapping before Shirin was voted out and she got along just fine with all the people there. Assuming that Shirin is a twin of her cousin, I am guessing that means Shirin started developing relationships with others in the community.

 

There are a lot of strong personalities on Season 31. There has been a lot of alliance formed before the cast was announced and it sounds like the players know a good number of them. I suspect that Spenser, Joe, Tasha and the like are going to be seen as more of a game threat then Shirin. She has adapted to do well in a male dominated industry, I think she will apply the lessons from this last season to Season 31 and adapt accordingly.

[scowl]

I hope she's making a list of things not to do in her next season. Top of the list:

 

1. Don't sing the Star Spangled Banner unless someone asks me to.

[marys1000]

I suspect more and more contestants will self edit as they don't want to be edited to be a villian.  I think they might treat Shirin differently than they would have if there wasn't a S30.  in other words, Shirin will get farther just based on her previous history. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by marys1000

[kikaha]

Shirin was an unbearably annoying misfit who everyone seemed to despise.

 

 

She annoyed everyone.  But not everyone despised her.  She became friends with the NC3, Mike, and Sierra, at the least.  Maybe a few more as well.  Actually, she got along famously with Max, who was something of a Survivor soul mate to her. 

 

I do not see Shirin as an innocent little lamb.  She says she told -- not just one or two trusted people -- but everyone about her abusive childhood.  That's playing the victim card.  She blamed others for not standing up for her.  But why should they?  That was between Will and her.  They have no responsibility to step in.  In fact, to do so could put their own games in jeopardy.  Shirin's offer to Tyler -- to explain his personality flaws to him -- was comedy gold in its un-self-awareness. 

 

I think Shirin is a bit of an attention hound.  She needs attention, whether that's by parading around bottomless... exasperating everyone on the island with nonstop chatter... instantly offering to pee on someone else's foot (Dan's, who making things even more theater-of-the-absurd, assured her he had already done that)... or turning an incident between one person and her into something the entire tribe supposedly bears responsibility for.

 

Even her FTC speech was a lot about Shirin.  She informed everyone she was a millionaire by age 25.  She dredged up her childhood abuse still again.  But this time she said she stood up for herself to Will, and didn't need anyone else's help.  I agree with that last part.  Shirin is completely capable of looking after herself, and by her own word, did so.  Why then constantly bring this up, and make it one of the major themes of the season? 

 

Sandra said incidents like the Will/Shirin confrontation happen every season in Survivor.  She thought it was no big deal.  That is how I see it, too.  But I think it played beautifully into Shirin's need to make things about her.  

 

 

I hope she's making a list of things not to do in her next season. Top of the list:

1. Don't sing the Star Spangled Banner unless someone asks me to.

 

I think that's no higher than #3 on the list:

 

1.  Keep your pants on around other contestants;

 

2.  STFU, just a little, about monkey sex and unsolicited insights into other people's personality defects.