S03.E14: The Return

[romantic idiot]

Oliver's hair was not the problem in the picture it was his expression!!! What on earth did they tell SA to think about when they made that? Hilarious.

 

It was Ollie's best blue steel. 

 

I also had a thought about Sara and her fighting for women. I realised, that while she had Stockholm Syndrome of a sort, we didn't see her mistreated that badly on the island due to her womanhood. So it made me wonder if she was fighting for women to avenge Shado and not herself. 

[Ang]

I think that's pretty much it, despite Tumblr GIFS many, many attempts to make me believe there's a deeper meaning, LOL!

Oh my gosh, I love those so much!! I think the over-the-top Olicity fan products are 50% of the reason I watch this show. The GIFS, the memes, the clips and vids, the empassioned tumblr Olicity defenders; I adore them. I could lull myself to sleep with them every night. The crazier the better! Edited February 20, 2015 by Ang

[areca]

I seriously thought that the twist ending of the 'The Return' would be Tommy being revealed as alive and a secret prisoner of ARGUS all this time.

Who IS the other prisoner Ollie mentioned? Felicity's dad? Or Deadeye or something?

I guess they gave Slade the mirrakuru cure before penning him, but I didn't recall that.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Who IS the other prisoner Ollie mentioned? Felicity's dad? Or Deadeye or something?

I guess they gave Slade the mirrakuru cure before penning him, but I didn't recall that.

 

It's Captain Boomerang, Digger Harkness, from The Brave and the Bold crossover episode with The Flash.

 

As for Slade getting the Mirakuru cure, it was during last season's finale, when Felicity stuck a syringe in him.

[DrSpaceman10]

I guess they gave Slade the mirrakuru cure before penning him, but I didn't recall that.

 

Felicity stabbed Slade with the cure in 2x23.

 

 

ETA: SmallScreenDiva beat me to it, but I'm keeping the (awesome) gif :)

Edited February 20, 2015 by drspaceman10

[jay741982]

Captain Boomerang from 3x08, I think.

 

 

Felicity stabbed Slade with the cure in 2x23.

 

Ahh still more badass than Laurel has been lol

[catrox14]

Ahh still more badass than Laurel has been lol

 

Thea before she was trained by Malcolm was more badass than Laurel has been or ever will be.

[Carrie Ann]

So, my husband is just now watching the episode, and I must have missed this the first time, but when Oliver talks to Malcolm on the Sat Phone, Malcolm says: "You told me you lost your duel with Ra's, despite your willingness to kill him, because you hesitated. Blah blah you need to regain that killer instinct blah blah."

 

Is that seriously the story the show is trying to sell? That Oliver hesitated in that fight, and that's why Ra's beat him? Because, um, that is not what I saw. I saw a dude who is not especially great at sword-fighting getting his ass handed to him, pretty efficiently, by a near-immortal sword-fighting master.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[KirkB]

Yeah, that was ridiculous. Oliver didn't hesitate, he barely got any moves in at all. It wasn't being unsure of himself, it was being totally outclassed.

[statsgirl]

Merlyn sending Oliver to duel in the first place doesn't make sense, but saying Oliver failed because he hesitated is ridiculous. Why would Oliver say he hesitated when he didn't?  Because then they wouldn't have an excuse to bring Manu Bennett for 4:5 minutes of screentime?  (I wouldn't be surprised if he too declines to come back after this.

I liked this episode, the flashback episodes where good. Nice to see Tommy, and yes it was a bit far fetched that no one recognized or saw Ollie, but if you thought someone was dead would you be looking for them in a crowd?

I blame it on the bad wig.  People took a look at that and averted their eyes before they got far enough down to have a look at his face.

 

5. And while I'm complaining about that, pre island Oliver's major accomplishment, that we've seen, was getting his father to give him money to pay the pizza delivery boy.  Why on earth was his fingerprint or biometrics given access to QC records?

David Larrabee syndrome (from the Sabrina remake):  You've been forwarding me the company reports for years.  You just assumed I couldn't read.

 

« season totals (so far) »

Oliver: 5hours, 3mins, 58secs
Laurel: 1hour, 56mins, 53secs
Diggle: 1hour, 51mins, 34secs
Thea: 1hour, 17mins, 57secs
Felicity: 2hours, 31mins, 19secs
Roy: 1hour, 57mins, 11secs
Malcolm: 43mins, 48secs
Quentin: 32mins 41secs

----

 

Totals do not include the Flash crossover episodes, which add to Oliver, Felicity and Diggle's screentime.

 

Laurel is still behind Oliver, Felicity and Roy for screentime; Thea, after one episode, is catching up, and Quentin, even after this episode, barely seems to be on the show :(

If you include the Flash episode, Diggle has more but on Arrow, Laurel has beaten Diggle and is neck in neck with Roy.  I expect her to pull ahead in the next episode.  The dark horse is rounding up on the outside and going for the lead.

 

I'm confused again. Laurel became BC to avenge her sister, to honor her sister or because she was always going to be BC.

What was the point of Sara dying again?

To open up a space for Laurel to become the Black Canary.  We have a hard enough time accepting her now, would anyone have accepted her if Sara was still around to show how it's done?

 

Someone else mentioned that it was probably Moira's desk because Thea mentioned her working at QC (which I didn't really catch), but I'd say that it's actually Robert's desk, the entire office being left as a shrine to him and Moira just working around it. Otherwise, I just can't see a reason for Moira to keep a model of the Queen's Gambit. She may have added her own touches, though, because why would Robert keep a picture of just himself?

I can see her wanting to take over Robert's desk, even if Walter was running the place by that time.  And it would explain why she left Oliver's access still on the computer, she didn't want to take away even that bit of his presence.  I've kept the most ridiculous things when someone close to me died.

[quarks]

If you include the Flash episode, Diggle has more but on Arrow, Laurel has beaten Diggle and is neck in neck with Roy.  I expect her to pull ahead in the next episode.  The dark horse is rounding up on the outside and going for the lead.

 

.....maybe. Laurel's only five minutes ahead of Diggle and one minute behind Roy. If Laurel is down to just seven minutes or less an episode again (like she was here), Diggle only needs 12 minutes to catch up, and Roy only needs seven minutes to stay ahead.  That fits previous episodes, and is entirely possible.  

 

Especially since the next episode is going to need at least five minutes for flashbacks and five minutes for Ray/suit. I have to assume at some point the show will be trying to justify Brandon Routh's salary, and this seems to be the episode. Diggle should pull ahead again in Suicidal Tendencies.

Edited February 20, 2015 by quarks

[Duke Silver]

Sorry to re-hash, but this is therapeutic for me:

--Robert made a video?  Why did they feel the need to show this?  He already had "the talk" w/ Ollie on the life raft...he shot that other guy, then killed himself so Ollie could survive.  I must be missing something here.  Why are they re-explaining how Ollie came to the decision to suit-up??

--Yeah..."“You knew my life was always headed toward the mask.”  I honestly said out loud, "What.  The.  Fuck."  Is it at all possible we're being played?  There's no way the showrunners can't see how ridiculous this all is....right?  RIGHT????

--That was the best utilization of a Slade Wilson return?  O.k., I guess.

 

Glad Thea finally knows.

 

I am easing into apathy.  I no longer watch the show live.  I also no longer wish to contribute in any way to implying I endorse what is happening, so I don't even wish to stumble upon helping the show's numbers, as meaningless as that may be.  I'll likely stop cold turkey at this point, and may...maybe watch through alternative means over the summer.  Just to see if there's any reason for me to watch Season 4's premiere.

 

I love the passion in here, but I don't think this show is worthy of such fidelity anymore.  It's fallen to the level of "something that might be on my TV/computer while I am doing something else more interesting."  Such as clipping my toe nails.  Or Dry shaving my ass & squatting in a bowl of Everclear.

Edited February 20, 2015 by cubbie5150

[looptab]

I didn't even notice until I read someone's comment on another site, but there were 4 graves on the island. Robert Queen, Yao Fei, Shado, and...? I guess we'll have to wait until season 5 to find out.

[poetgirl925]

The Felicity thing was totally unnecessary, but I liked it. It seems like I'm in the minority about not thinking that it's a retcon of sorts. Why would Oliver remember her? It's not like he got up close and personal with her or even really saw her face. Yeah, the babble might have clued him in when he first "met" her, but who's to say he'd even remember what happened two+ years after the fact? It was five seconds in time right after he found out his dad left himself and Thea messages from beyond and thought he might get caught. He did god knows what for Waller after that, and then joined the Russian mafia. He was beyond preoccupied. Like...a five second blip where he overheard something that made him smile for a nanosecond? It doesn't change a thing for me. I don't think he remembers that and is somehow being untruthful for not telling her or that it means that he specifically went to her with his laptop because of it. She didn't even do anything in the clip that would lead him to believe she knew anything at all about computers.

Yeah you're probably right. I think I'm at a point where instead of seeing scenes, even cute ones like this, I'm seeing future opportunities for more WTFery. This show is ruining me lol.

I definitely agree with everyone here who's been saying there's no evidence this season that they're planning a rehash of Laurel/Oliver. I've seen people throwing out that fear but as contrived as some of the Oliver/Felicity drama is this season, they've done nothing to resurrect L/O in any way. They barely seem like friends anymore - more co-workers than anything. This episode was the perfect opportunity to throw a bone to any supporters of that 'ship, and the writers didn't take it. I was expecting it actually, but Oliver and Thea were paralleled past and present, and Laurel's story centered around her father past and present, with a nice callback to the Laurel/Tommy 'ship. They could have put an entirely different spin on that, but FB Laurel actually appeared pretty well-adjusted and definitely very flirty with Tommy. That's retconning the still bitter and grieving Laurel from the pilot IMO, but whatever. If it involves Lauliver (?) they can retcon away lol. I really think killing Tommy was a mistake, though, and even more after this episode. He humanized her in a way that no one else does, and there was no bad blood there like there was between her and her father, mother, sister and Oliver. I have this feeling that I might not have grown to hate Laurel as much as I did in season 2 if they had kept Tommy around and had them work through their issues. As it stands, I just feel like Tommy was too good for her.

[PoMoPink]

Nice Eli Stone reference.

 

Not enough Felicity.

 

(fin)

[Shanna]

It was Ollie's best blue steel.

I also had a thought about Sara and her fighting for women. I realised, that while she had Stockholm Syndrome of a sort, we didn't see her mistreated that badly on the island due to her womanhood. So it made me wonder if she was fighting for women to avenge Shado and not herself.

Hee.

I think Sara would have been abused on the boat if not for ivo, and it's possible she saw some things go down directed at others while she was there. And I can't remember if we know how exactly she ended up with the league, although can't see her being abused if Nyssa had a say (unless she was abuse by Nyssa and I don't really want to think that). We also don't know what she saw with the league. Damnit this is why killing Sara of was so effing stupid, they could have mined her flashbacks for years!!! There are things I want to know. Laurels flashbacks would all be 'went to law school, became lawyer'.

I do like the idea that she was fighting in part for shado.

There were four graves? Nice catch.

[Delphi]

That was the best episode I've seen in a long while.

Thea knows everything and she didn't seem too mad at Ollie, thank god, that boy has too much guilt.

I loved when Thea sob screamed "he killed mom!"

I love that Susanna has self respect, but damn girl, please come back, I miss you. The show needs you, boo

Didn't get too bothered by laurel for once, Lance was heartbreaking good.

I've never gotten the Tommy love obsession, but it was nice seeing him.

Loved Felicity, and I don't think it's a retcon. If anything in love gunman, when she started babbling of imagine Oliver having an aha lightbulb moment and think it's cute.

Who wrote this episode, they need to be the new show runner.

[poetgirl925]

I think I saw MG's name flash across the screen as one of the writers, which hahaha - the first thing I thought of when it was over was that he's found a new way to troll this fandom using 4th wall shattering dialogue. That Laurel line will forever make me laugh. I'd applaud his passive aggressive way of responding to fan critique if it weren't so silly in that it forces stupid lines on characters who don't need anymore stupid. Poor Laurel - she's caught some of the worst dialogue of the show lol

[Delphi]

Also to add, Malcolm: He shouldn't have told you that.

Shut up Malcolm, you shouldn't have done that, wtf, to borrow a phrase from Gotham, did you get together with a bunch of monkeys and a pile of crack and think this awesome plan of yours would not backfire? Shut up, Malcolm.

Eta:

I think I saw MG's name flash across the screen as one of the writers, which hahaha - the first thing I thought of when it was over was that he's found a new way to troll this fandom using 4th wall shattering dialogue.

I'm choosing to believe this episode was mostly the work of Erik Olesan abd MG is just trying to get credit.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Delphi

[poetgirl925]

Maybe, but I'd put money on that dialogue being all MG lol. Maybe Arrow could switch networks and resurrect NBC's now defunct Thursday night comedy block?

[KirkB]

I actually kind of loved that last scene with Oliver, Thea and Malcolm, because it showed that in Malcolm's mind drugging his daughter and forcing her to kill a friend in order to manipulate her brother into fighting a duel to the death with a guy who was now after her because of that friend she killed is no big deal, yet Oliver telling Thea he did this to her somehow makes him (Oliver) the bad guy. HE did something wrong.

 

Of course, why the hell Oliver still chooses to work with this loony toon is anyone's guess.

[apinknightmare]

So, my husband is just now watching the episode, and I must have missed this the first time, but when Oliver talks to Malcolm on the Sat Phone, Malcolm says: "You told me you lost your duel with Ra's, despite your willingness to kill him, because you hesitated. Blah blah you need to regain that killer instinct blah blah."

 

Is that seriously the story the show is trying to sell? That Oliver hesitated in that fight, and that's why Ra's beat him? Because, um, that is not what I saw. I saw a dude who is not especially great at sword-fighting getting his ass handed to him, pretty efficiently, by a near-immortal sword-fighting master.

 

This is especially stupid because if the only reason he lost is because he hesitated, what does he need Malcolm for? The whole point of Oliver signing on with him was so he could teach him to beat Ra's. If he only lost because he hesitated, then he already knows how to beat Ra's, he just needs to make himself kill again. But The Return showed us that he's not willing to kill again, and neither is Thea. So what's the point? 

 

But yeah, I saw what you saw: Oliver getting his ass beat. 

Edited February 20, 2015 by apinknightmare

[fantique]

I got sick and have rewatched Game of Thrones S1-S4, THREE times. Now this might be my grumpy, runny nose, puked out self talking but this episode pissed me of for some reason.

Hear me out:

The episode was going well. Unlike most I have zero problems with him not being on the Island for the whole time and even coming back to SC (the whole not recognised thing was a stretch but I liked that they made fun of that because hey it's TV). They were more than one occasions even all the way back to season 1 when Oliver would say something and Diggle would be like "Umm... Weren't you Crusoe'd for 5 years? Why the hell do you know about X/Y/Z?". I understood since then that they would show that he wasn't stationary and also that made me give them a pass.

I liked Laurel in flashbacks, I liked the Oliver/Thea combo. I liked seeing Slade back and assessing how strong he is without the Mirakuru. I even like the military tangent in the flashbacks and can't wait to see how this new guy screws Oliver over. I love Maseo more and more. Malcolm's crazy is showing and that's fun although it is getting a little redundant for him to always be orchestrating everything.

 

Then there were two times where the episode screeched to a "ARE. YOU. FREEEAAAAKING. KIDDING. ME?" halt.

The Felicity thing*: 1) Oliver looked like Dexter's less able to hide his freaky side younger brother and sidekick. Seriously, I could imagine the scenario when the picture was taken: Robert had to hold Oliver up and right after the shot he keened over and shared his last meal with everyone. 2) UGGGGHHHH, can we use a modicum of subtlety in this story telling, really that's all you can come up to sell a potentially healthy, mutually beneficial romance? The "written in the stars" angle? 3) I always fantasised that Felicity would verbally punch "Ollie" in the face. Do they have to try to suggest she would've liked him even them. Pitied him? Yes. Seen through his façade as a coping mechanism? Yes. But all "Sigh... All the good ones are either taken, gay or dead." GMAFB, you think you're being cute Arrow but you're just pissing me off. What was the point? Just have Felicity in the episode babbling about stuff, if they thought we couldn't live without her in the episode.

 

The Laurel thing: STOP MAKING LAUREL OBNOXIOUS! After the whole episode of seeing her being cute with Tommy and caring for daddy dearest, she had me really. The fact that Lance opted to die with Sara instead of rebuild with Laurel must have hurt. It was touching that he was grumpy about her leaving SC for fat cats instead of helping the downtrodden. It even cleared up why she was at the CNRI, and I will even give them that she's supposedly that good of a lawyer and ignore her lack of professionalism in season 1 because I actually find S3 Lawyer Laurel way cooler. 

WHY DID IT HAVE TO END? Seriously, and the fact that she used the one point that made me give her some respect to justify her dumb BC everything just annoyed the hell out of me. Really Laurel, he knew? Are you seriously trying that at your secretly dead sister's grave whose death EVERYONE knew about except for your father? Seriously!? The sister you impersonated to fool him a bit longer and whose hero identity you are now taking over? Writers, stop it. After you realised Laurel was coming across as unlikable because she was being obnoxious and then rewarded, making her obnoxious and then shut down is not that much better. As tiring as it gets on this site, in-script Laurel bashing is not cute. Especially because unlike us poor sods, writers actually have the power not to make her obnoxious. Welcome to the land of self-awareness writers, next destination is character building seminar! And give Laurel some of the self-awareness please, it only works if it stick for more than an episode.

 

*PS: other than being a grumpy sick person, what the Felicity is really about are two things that unsettle me. 1) the fact that "Ollie" is absolutely repulsive to me. He reeks of Daddy issues and douchebaggery and that hair is so not cute. Basically, pre-Island Oliver makes me want to slap him. 2) I am scared that this weird trend of throwing the shiny Felicity glitters in our faces while hitting us in the back with the inconsistent plot bat. I'm pretty sure the feedback is indicating that most people are not going for that but it's still making me nervous. Also, the draw of Olicity is a healthy balanced relationship with, hopefully, little internal drama once they get together because it's supposed to make both of them better and happier. Not the twu wuv, "fated to be" angle. If they don't even know why people want/don't mind this couple then they will keep making mistakes and I'd rather both Felicity and Oliver are preserved than Olicity. So far the problems I see have not been because they're trying to write Olicity so I'm reserving judgement... That's mostly because there's been little Olicity though but that can be good because after the getting together, they should just carry on business as usual and have cute fillers once in a while. No bringing it into the lair and Team Arrow.

Edited February 20, 2015 by fantique

[icandigit]

So.Dumb.

Can't help it. Love this comment. Simple yet effective.

[statsgirl]

I understand why people didn't recognize Oliver when he came back 2 years later, scruffy, in a hoodie and looking very different from the clean-shaven billionaire playboy.  I still don't understand why no one recognizes Malcolm Merlyn, who was all over the front pages for killing 500+ people and causing millions of dollars worth of damage, and looks exactly like he always did.

 

.....maybe. Laurel's only five minutes ahead of Diggle and one minute behind Roy. If Laurel is down to just seven minutes or less an episode again (like she was here), Diggle only needs 12 minutes to catch up, and Roy only needs seven minutes to stay ahead.  That fits previous episodes, and is entirely possible. 

The fact that Laurel's time is anywhere close to Diggle's, or ever Roy's given that he's been on the Team for a year, is so, so wrong.

 

 

Who wrote this episode, they need to be the new show runner.

 

That's the whole problem with this season, that Marc Guggenheim is the show-runner.  As a writer, I think he does well, really well sometimes especially with emotional beats (he and Erik Oleson also wrote Left Behind), but as a show-runner, he sucks.  Two completely different skill sets, and when a good writer gets promoted to producer and then to show-runner, it's the Peter Principle in action.

 

 

That's retconning the still bitter and grieving Laurel from the pilot IMO, but whatever. If it involves Lauliver (?) they can retcon away lol. I really think killing Tommy was a mistake, though, and even more after this episode. He humanized her in a way that no one else does, and there was no bad blood there like there was between her and her father, mother, sister and Oliver. I have this feeling that I might not have grown to hate Laurel as much as I did in season 2 if they had kept Tommy around and had them work through their issues. As it stands, I just feel like Tommy was too good for her.

Season 1 Laurel ping-ponged between well-adjusted at CNRI and with Tommy, and bitter with Oliver, which was part writing and part KC's one note acting.  the only time I liked her was in some scenes with Tommy.  I understand the emotional kick to kill Tommy but could they have still been thinking that Laurel was going to be Oliver's love interest again? that KC was a good enough actress that she was worth keeping on the show instead of Tommy?

 

As much as I love seeing John Barrowman on my screen, this season's storyline with MM has been a complete WTF? and I'm now wondering if it would have been better to have killed him instead of Tommy.  Or my favorite, kill Laurel while could have sent Oliver into the "to honor my friend" mode, caused conflict between Tommy and Oliver which would have been really interesting when Thea's bio-daddy was revealed, and let us keep Sara as the Black Canary. 

 

 

3) I always fantasised that Felicity would verbally punch "Ollie" in the face. Do they have to try to suggest she would've liked him even them. Pitied him? Yes. Seen through his façade as a coping mechanism? Yes. But all "Sigh...

I agree about throwing the shiny glittery Felicity stuff in our faces to distract us and make us like whoever she's propping at the moment (Laurel and Ray this season) but MG believes in "star-crossed lovers" as the OTP so this is either 1. a way of appeasing people who don't like this season of O/D/F at odds or 2. his way of stating that Oliver/Felicity is the OTP.

[Shanna]

I don't see a disconnect between pilot laurel being massively thrown by Oliver coming back and sort of Bitter about it and this laurel/tommy interaction. Oliver coming back would bring back all the old feelings which didn't affect her relationship with tommy.

And I found this tommy to be mostly the same tommy that we saw previously, throwing parties and being a bit brotherly to Thea.

[ohjoy]

I agree about throwing the shiny glittery Felicity stuff in our faces to distract us and make us like whoever she's propping at the moment (Laurel and Ray this season) but MG believes in "star-crossed lovers" as the OTP so this is either 1. a way of appeasing people who don't like this season of O/D/F at odds or 2. his way of stating that Oliver/Felicity is the OTP.

If "star-crossed lovers" is what happens to MG's OTPs, then I don't want Oliver/Felicity to be an OTP he loves. (Sorry, lol. Never gets old.)

[poetgirl925]

Season 1 Laurel ping-ponged between well-adjusted at CNRI and with Tommy, and bitter with Oliver, which was part writing and part KC's one note acting. the only time I liked her was in some scenes with Tommy. I understand the emotional kick to kill Tommy but could they have still been thinking that Laurel was going to be Oliver's love interest again? that KC was a good enough actress that she was worth keeping on the show instead of Tommy?

As much as I love seeing John Barrowman on my screen, this season's storyline with MM has been a complete WTF? and I'm now wondering if it would have been better to have killed him instead of Tommy. Or my favorite, kill Laurel while could have sent Oliver into the "to honor my friend" mode, caused conflict between Tommy and Oliver which would have been really interesting when Thea's bio-daddy was revealed, and let us keep Sara as the Black Canary.

At the time I assumed that Tommy's death was just more angst for the L/O star crossed blech, but looking back I'm not so sure they weren't already considering abandoning that 'ship. I think the main problem is that they didn't consider what was best for Laurel's story in season 2. Yes, Tommy's death provided an emotional kick for her, but it was weighed down by the fact that she ran back to Oliver hours before he died, so how much could she have really loved him anyway? It would have been better for her to have Tommy there, even if they were at odds, because it would have been another person (besides Quentin) for her to interact with, and it probably would have kept her somewhat connected to the main plot since Tommy knew Oliver's secret. Instead they left her twisting in the wind for most of season 2. Even bringing back Sara was a way for the producers to have their Insta-Canary more than it was about what was best for Laurel's journey IMO. If it had been about Laurel, I don't think they would have inserted Oliver into the sisters' story all season. I think keeping Malcolm and killing Tommy had a lot more to do with what they thought was best for Oliver's story in the long run, and I think Sara happened because they thought it would be cool and also add interest to Oliver's story. So, they waffled around trying to figure out what to do with Laurel in the mean time, but at no point do I think they considered killing her because she's Dinah Laurel Lance. I think they were just trying to shift gears because L/O crashed and burned as a 'ship (you know it's bad when more people are shipping brother and sister than the planned OTP) and lost Laurel's path along the way. It would probably be interesting if they killed off Malcolm and brought Tommy back at this point. I've been against that idea in the past, but the show is way off any sense of reality and real world consequences at this point, so they might as well.

I should add that this is why KC was only the female lead on paper for two seasons. They just didn't have time to tell Laurel's origin story between Oliver's FB and his present day problems. They threw a lot of stuff out into the story ether, but none of it was really telling a cohesive origin story for her. This season that's suddenly changing and most critics agree it's a train wreck because it's too much at once.

Edited February 20, 2015 by poetgirl925

[foreverevolving]

I don't have any problem with Felicity telling a picture of Ollie that he looks cute, or her finding Ollie cute.

there's a difference between finding someone good looking appearance wise to liking them as a person. you can still think someone who is a total douche is also hot looking.

on the overall Oliver (past and present) is a very good looking man. which is what she was commenting on. I have no doubt that had she met Ollie before Oliver she would have called him out for being a douche, a cute douche, but a douche none the less.

[statsgirl]

replying to the Laurel story arc on her thread

[Jordan27]

I enjoyed the stunt with the spiked booby trap.  Thought it looked cool when Oliver shoved Thea out of the way.

 

Wow, was that scene clichéd.  Thea just decided to run through the woods because she sees a path and trips on one of Oliver's old traps and he just happens to save her.  Highly improbable.

 

Personally, I didn't like seeing Tommy.  I thought he was a whiny crybaby character. 

 

Wow, good seeing Slade again.  What a character and what an actor.  When is he going to be on another show?

[quarks]

The fact that Laurel's time is anywhere close to Diggle's, or ever Roy's given that he's been on the Team for a year, is so, so wrong.

 

From my perspective as a fan, sure.

 

From the perspective of the show and the CW, not necessarily.  Katie Cassidy is still the second billed on the show; she was hired to be the lead actress, and paid the appropriate salary for that position. By that perspective, she should have more screentime than anyone other than Oliver. But even with five episodes focused on her, she doesn't.

[statsgirl]

quarks, I wrote out a long reply, and then thought it would be better in the Laurel thread.

 

Brief summary:  spending more time on Thea these past episodes has made her more interesting and the audience more likely to tune in to see what happens with her.  Spending all this time on Laurel this season achieved the opposite.

[Tangerine]

I have to say the CGI at the beginning of Lian Yu was really, really not good. Usually I'm very forgiving of these things but this show has lost a lot of good will with me, sadly.

[tv echo]

Wow, good seeing Slade again.  What a character and what an actor.  When is he going to be on another show?

Manu Bennett (Slade) will be playing Allanon in The Shannara Chronicles, a new TV series on MTV that is currently filming in New Zealand.

[TrueMyth]

I have to say the CGI at the beginning of Lian Yu was really, really not good. Usually I'm very forgiving of these things but this show has lost a lot of good will with me, sadly.

This and the Queen mansion interior were so very bad. I can't help thinking they scrimped a bit on that green screen/CGI because they knew they'd be breaking the bank with the ATOM suit later on this season. Either that or this was the best they could do, and Roy's suit is going to function horribly.

[Chaser]

I'm wondering now if the bad CGI and lesser stunt quality this year is because they are pointing a lot of the bugdet into the Atom suit.

[Ang]

Manu Bennett (Slade) will be playing Allanon in The Shannara Chronicles, a new TV series on MTV that is currently filming in New Zealand.

Meep! Seriously??

I was just reminded in another thread about the general at the end. I get that he's a character from the comics, and maybe they'll do something fun with him, but I am filled with dread. I despise the "grizzled, uncrackable General in fatigues with a nefarious and heartless agenda who shows no indication of having ever been human" trope. I don't think I have ever enjoyed it - not here, not on the Flash, not in any of the X-Men movies or cartoons. I know it's an easy ploy so of course it's frequently used, but are there people who really love with this kind of thing? Is anybody excited about this development?

[apinknightmare]

Since that general is the leader of the Creature Commandos, I'm interested in seeing what they're going to do with him. I can't imagine they're going to have him heading a group of soldiers that include a vampire, a werewolf, Frankenstein's monster and such although with this show at this point...who knows. 

 

Maybe they'll just have an abnormally hairy dude, someone with long incisors, and someone with a misshapen face or something and all of them have tongue-in-cheek nicknames?

Edited February 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[foreverevolving]

didn't they have a couple of villains that are in the comics with powers but on arrow were regular people?

I can't remember any names at the moment.

[statsgirl]

This is the show where there are going to be no metahumans  or superpowers, right?

 

Since that general is the leader of the Creature Commandos, I'm interested in seeing what they're going to do with him. I can't imagine they're going to have him heading a group of soldiers that include a vampire, a werewolf, Frankenstein's monster and such although with this show at this point...who knows.

Is this related to the Grodd storyline The Flash is doing? 

 

Is this an Easter Egg, or something that will s how up in later seasons?

 

It will be good to see Marc Singer again. I only vaguely remember him from the original Beastmaster, more from V and Dar's father in the newer series.

[bethy]

Manu Bennett (Slade) will be playing Allanon in The Shannara Chronicles, a new TV series on MTV that is currently filming in New Zealand.

 

What?  I LOVED that book when I was in high school. And I may have written a college entrance essay on The Sword of Shannara.  Oh dear. Yet another MTV television show this grown woman will be watching.

[TrueMyth]

Not to get further nitpicky, but there was a second thing that made me go 'huh?' in the Felicity flashback scene besides the not-cute 'cute' picture.  The scene starts with Oliver dropping down into his now-familiar crouch in the middle of the CEO office.  Even though he's used this move countless times as the Arrow and I know he's totally capable of dropping from heights like a bad-ass, parkoring, sexy ninja (at least it was dark enough not to show is wig flapping in the move, so still sexy), but really, where did he drop from?

 

We know that office space pretty well after season two.  The ceilings are high, high, high and there has never seemed to be any kind of ledge.  I suppose we are to assume that there is some kind of air duct grate which Oliver has used to avoid cameras?  Still, the fall didn't seem like it was from that high up.  It felt like Stephen was just jumping and landing to add some energy to the scene... or possibly like Oliver bounced off the desk.  A fall from an air vent, so high up that we have never actually seen it in any of the past wide-shots, it just seems like he would have landed a bit harder, sexy, ninja cat-man or not.

 

And if he DID get in by dropping from a vent... how did he get back out again?

Edited February 22, 2015 by TrueMyth

[Perfect Xero]

Speaking of plot holes, why did Oliver have to kill that guy at Tommy's party?  Yeah, everyone's going to believe a clearly coked-out drug dealer who claims he saw dead Oliver Queen.  Sure.

 

ARGUS would have believed him, and they made it clear that they'd go after Oliver's family as a way to keep him in line.

 

Also, he was a scummy drug dealer who was dealing to Oliver's 15 year old sister, he'd just threatened to kill Oliver and came at him with a knife.

[tv echo]

Often overlooked is the fact that Malcolm killed an unidentified guard in order to let Slade escape from the ARGUS prison (as part of testing Thea and Oliver's killer instinct).  I'm assuming it was Malcolm who killed the guard.  If it was Slade, he would've escaped on his own months ago.

 

It disturbs me that TV villain redemption stories seem to dismiss the deaths of hundreds of unidentified people (here, the Glades residents and the ARGUS guard) and only focus on the deaths of a few identified characters.*  In other words, as long as the villain is remorseful for killing someone you know, it's okay that he or she remains unpunished for killing hundreds of strangers.  I think this sends a bad message.

 

* Once Upon a Time is doing the same thing with the Regina character who killed a lot of people as the Evil Queen (including a whole village).  Even Agents of SHIELD somewhat cavalierly had Coulson & his agents kill two guards who were protecting a facility.

 

I would love it if Malcolm were to be killed as payback by the wife, girlfriend, sibling or child of that murdered ARGUS guard - but it won't happen.

 

Revenge of the red shirt.

Edited February 22, 2015 by tv echo

[MostlyC]

Off topic posts have been moved.  Further off- topic posts will be deleted.

[Ang]

The photo recap just posted in the Clocktower thread just reminded me: Chien Na Wei's hilarious auctioning cracked me up!! You're getting bids in millions for a weapon to commit mass murder - do you really bother with the cheap patter? That poor actress, trying to maintain her menace while spouting off lines from a sixth grader's imagining of an auction.

[millennium]

This episode was a waste of Slade.   I was psyched to see Manu Bennett's name in the credits, what a letdown.    Has he been cured of the Mirakuru?   No more superhuman strength?   No more crazy?   He comes off as just a guy with a big chip on his shoulder now.

 

However, the return of Slade finally made me realize why I have been so disappointed with this season.  Slade is one of only two villains (so far) who can match Oliver's intensity -- the other being Ra's Al Ghul.   No other villains register as a serious threat, so there's no dramatic tension in most of the episodes.    They are at best simply a contrivance to move the story along, the real story (this season anyway) being all the melodrama at the Arrow cave.

 

My biggest beef with this episode, though, was the serious breach in the logic of the narrative.

 

The flashbacks are Oliver's memories, yes?   His recollections of events and incidents in which he was a participant.

 

If that's so, what was that interlude between Laurel and Quentin after Maseo led Oliver away at gunpoint?   Oliver didn't witness that exchange between the Lances, so it couldn't possibly be part of his flashbacks.   Ditto for that last scene between Tommy and Laurel.  Again, Oliver was not there.   Both scenes stuck out like sore thumbs. 

What?  I LOVED that book when I was in high school. And I may have written a college entrance essay on The Sword of Shannara.  Oh dear. Yet another MTV television show this grown woman will be watching.

 

Good grief, I read that back in the 1970s when it was a selection in the Science Fiction Book Club.   Yes!  Yes!  I freely admit I was a member of the Science Fiction Book Club! 

[Delphi]

The flashbacks aren't memories, they are merely past events. Because Oliver is the supposed lead the story uses him to establish a scene. But it doesn't have too. Oliver wasn't in the foundry when the auction originally started but we still saw it.

[tv echo]

MG called this episode "a love letter, and a little bit of a late Christmas gift to the fans who appreciate all the little moments we fold into the episodes." (source)  Well, I think "The Return" was less of a love letter and more of an F.U. to the fans... 

 

• For fans complaining that Ra's is less scary than Slade -- Slade is disarmed by Thea (didn't he learn anything from underestimating small women after Felicity jabbed him with the needle?).
• For fans complaining about Laurel becoming the BC -- Laurel: "you knew that my life was always headed towards that mask" (Black Canary, bitches!).
• For fans complaining about Sara being killed -- Laurel pours the alcohol out on Sara's grave (tell me again that Laurel loved her sister?).
• For fans complaining about Tommy being killed -- Tommy appears as protective and caring to Laurel and his then unknown half-sister Thea (what a waste of story potential!),
• For fans who love Olicity -- Felicity to photo of creepy-looking Ollie: "you're cute" (really?!).
• For fans complaining about Diggle being sidelined - Diggle makes a cameo appearance as a security guard at a rich boy's party (and Andy, we hardly knew ye).
• For fans who loved Moira and Walter -- no Moira or Walter.
• For fans who love Team Arrow -- no Team Arrow.

Edited March 8, 2015 by tv echo