S01.E14: Fallout

[Carrie Ann]

I thought this episode was a big improvement over the last few. It was nice to see the Firestorm thing finally happen, and I thought RA and Spydaddy had a nice rapport. Robbie Amell will never win any awards, but he seems pretty suited to this role. I bought into his emotion w/r/t Caitlin more than I did hers for him, but I liked their chemistry in general. The ending kinda made no sense to me though. I don't know what Clarissa's job is, but it seems to me that most people would probably take a leave of absence to be with their husband in that situation. Ditto for Caitlin, frankly, but I understand her in-show reasons for staying in CC. It was just odd that her end scene with Cisco made it seem like she and Ronnie were broken up or something?

 

(I swear to God the Arrow and Flash writers have no concept of what a loved one's death does to people, and how they would behave if that person ever came back to life. If you were truly in love with someone, to the point of almost marrying them, and they came back to life--even if there were complications, I believe you would drop almost anything to be with them, to help them and get your life back. Ditto for your sister, your brother, your best friend. I don't think your reaction would be hostility or near-indifference, but that's the choice the writers make every time. It's...crazy.)

 

Anyway, the best part of the episode for me was Iris. I do like Roger Howarth, because I think he always brings something to his scenes where some actors don't bother. I liked the way he interacted with Iris here; it brought CP out of her shell a bit too. When I think about it, all the other characters on the show treat Iris like some delicate flower, so it's kind of fun to see her bouncing off of a grouch like Mason. Anyway, I also liked this story for her because it finally brought us to the point with her that I wish we'd started on in the pilot--I believe she is truly intrigued by this Star Labs story, and I think she has every right to be suspicious of everyone in her life. I'm rooting for her to figure out the Barry thing, and everything else, on her own. And then I hope she reads her father and Barry for filth, because they deserve it.

[Shanna]

(I swear to God the Arrow and Flash writers have no concept of what a loved one's death does to people, and how they would behave if that person ever came back to life. If you were truly in love with someone, to the point of almost marrying them, and they came back to life--even if there were complications, I believe you would drop almost anything to be with them, to help them and get your life back.

Except they seemed to do it right with respect to stein and his wife. Which made me wonder how much was just the acting not really selling it, although I think the writing on Ronnie saying 'we are leaving' without much discussion with Caitlin was pretty bad. I wish they had talked more about why they should disappear or if they had cut that conversation and had one about how he couldn't stay around because of danger from Clancy later.

Anyway, the best part of the episode for me was Iris. I do like Roger Howarth, because I think he always brings something to his scenes where some actors don't bother. I liked the way he interacted with Iris here; it brought CP out of her shell a bit too. When I think about it, all the other characters on the show treat Iris like some delicate flower, so it's kind of fun to see her bouncing off of a grouch like Mason. .

Ha, I like the way you put that and I agree, however I did think iris came off a little slow in that scene. 'Do you mean we should investigate things?' really? I would have change those lines a but to make iris seem less dumb.

[Carrie Ann]

Except they seemed to do it right with respect to stein and his wife. Which made me wonder how much was just the acting not really selling it, although I think the writing on Ronnie saying 'we are leaving' without much discussion with Caitlin was pretty bad. I wish they had talked more about why they should disappear or if they had cut that conversation and had one about how he couldn't stay around because of danger from Clancy later.

Ha, I like the way you put that and I agree, however I did think iris came off a little slow in that scene. 'Do you mean we should investigate things?' really? I would have change those lines a but to make iris seem less dumb.

 

I was OK with Iris being hesitant, because she hasn't been thinking about Star Labs as a target of suspicion before now. Yeah, there was the Wells press conference thing, but otherwise, what she knows of them is that Barry works with them and they saved his life. To me, this showed that she isn't stupid, because she quickly began looking at things with different eyes, and by the end was convinced that something is going on. I also liked that the suspicion was not directly through Barry, but actually through Caitlin/Ronnie. I don't know, I'm just really happy with how that played out.

 

As for the first part--see, I didn't think the Clarissa/Stein thing was handled any better than Caitlin/Ronnie. Why wasn't Clarissa going to Pittsburgh? Why a big emotional goodbye, when she could just go there? Is it because the military would track her and find Stein? If so, I wish that had been spelled out a bit more, because I missed it. That's also why the Caitlin/Cisco conversation made no sense to me. I get it if she needs to stay in CC and Ronnie needs to go to Pitt, but wouldn't they still be in a relationship? Just long-distance? I don't get where they stand, but she sort of made it sound like they're not together until this Firestorm situation is figured out or something. I just don't believe that's how humans who love each other would handle that situation. I'd be on Skype every night and planning meetups every few weeks, and we'd get through it. But there's no way I'd just go on a break from my newly-back-from-the-dead fiance, just because things are complicated.

[phoenics]

I was OK with Iris being hesitant, because she hasn't been thinking about Star Labs as a target of suspicion before now. Yeah, there was the Wells press conference thing, but otherwise, what she knows of them is that Barry works with them and they saved his life. To me, this showed that she isn't stupid, because she quickly began looking at things with different eyes, and by the end was convinced that something is going on. I also liked that the suspicion was not directly through Barry, but actually through Caitlin/Ronnie. I don't know, I'm just really happy with how that played out.

I was too - I'm really excited about where Iris' storyline - actually her OWN storyline - not really connected to Barry in a sense - but connected to her actual job... awesome.

As for the first part--see, I didn't think the Clarissa/Stein thing was handled any better than Caitlin/Ronnie. Why wasn't Clarissa going to Pittsburgh? Why a big emotional goodbye, when she could just go there? Is it because the military would track her and find Stein? If so, I wish that had been spelled out a bit more, because I missed it. That's also why the Caitlin/Cisco conversation made no sense to me. I get it if she needs to stay in CC and Ronnie needs to go to Pitt, but wouldn't they still be in a relationship? Just long-distance? I don't get where they stand, but she sort of made it sound like they're not together until this Firestorm situation is figured out or something. I just don't believe that's how humans who love each other would handle that situation. I'd be on Skype every night and planning meetups every few weeks, and we'd get through it. But there's no way I'd just go on a break from my newly-back-from-the-dead fiance, just because things are complicated.

Well when you add in the weird OOC Drunk Caitlin ship bait scenes, this just feels like they're trying to turn Caitlin toward Barry (though I'm not sure he's turning toward her).

[Carrie Ann]

Exactly my fear, because that's how these writers roll. They make characters react to things in ways normal humans would not, simply because it's necessary for their storylines to work. Eh, we'll see, maybe they'll make some comments in future episodes indicating that C/R are actually doing the long-distance thing, and that convo with Cisco was just meant to convey that Caitlin is okay with Ronnie being away from her, physically-speaking.

[bluebonnet]

If they set this up correctly, Iris could actually be the savior for Barry and Team Flash.  Joe's and Eddie's investigation of Wells hasn't gone anywhere.  Iris is coming at this from a totally different perspective to all of them so she's better positioned to see the bigger picture.  It would be pretty marvelous and also fairly groundbreaking.  Which is likely why they'd never go that route.   

[Shanna]

As for the first part--see, I didn't think the Clarissa/Stein thing was handled any better than Caitlin/Ronnie. Why wasn't Clarissa going to Pittsburgh? .

It's possible I lost track of things, but wasnt stein in Robbie's body again by the time that happened?

But by 'handled better' I guess I mean that I mostly bought the emotion in both sides of that relationship, but not so much with Ronnie and Caitlin. Their relationship seemed sort of shallow by comparison.

Which is a shame because I completely bought Caitlin's mourning at the beginning of the show.

With iris, I didn't mind her hesitation but there was something about the writing in that scene which made her seem kind of dim to me. I can't rewatch right now so I can't say exactly. I just wish they had reworked the lines a bit because otherwise I like her scenes with that actor.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Shanna

[Sandman]

"Hey, did you hear Mayor Garrick wants to add a Flash tax to his election platform?"

"A flat tax -- like a flat tax rate?"

"No, a Flash tax. It's to cover all the meta-human damages and loss from all the science-y gizmos and imploding flapdoodlers, and whatnot. Also, pizza places are gonna start charging higher rates on delivery orders. Danger pay, dude."

[Jordan27]

Howarth is such a weak actor and he is funny looking.

You evidently never saw him on OLTL.  He was incredible.

There are going to be comic booky things on a live-action version of a comic book. That's the story. It's a comic book. 

Well, Arrow is one and it doesn't.

[Jordan27]

So, they really are going into the time travel stuff.  Barry wants to find a way to save his mother.  I wished Joe or someone would remind him that usually meddling with time has a way to come back and haunt them.  I mean, even if he saves her, who knows what the ripples could be. 

 

I didn't know there was a Bible on time travel.  There are many different takes on it.  There's the Doctor Who where some things can be changed.  There's the Back To The Future version where everything can be changed.  And then there are some that say time can't be changed at all.  Lost.

 

No way to really know what would happen or even if it could happen.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Jordan27

[benteen]

Given what Ronnie went through, it doesn't surprise me he wants to get out of a Central City with Caitlin.  But I was really glad Caitlin instantly shot down any idea of her leaving.

 

Iris being kept in the dark is ridiculous and it's because of Joe...the worst aspects of Joe's character revolve around his at times insulting way of keeping his daughter "safe."

Edited February 18, 2015 by benteen

[Jordan27]

 

Is there any reason why Barry didn't knock out General Elling during the first battle in the alley? His ineptitude and inability to learn from his mistaks is getting funny at this point.

 

I'm still baffled at how easily Flash is beaten.  A bunch of exploding nails, really?  A bazooka?  It's very comic-bookie.

I don't want to sound racist or sexist but CW really needs to stop doing comic shows with white male leads. Three is enough...

 

And yet, that is the way it sounds.

[VCRTracking]

I love the shot of Firestorm flying and the Flash running together.

[tennisgurl]

This show excels at shots like that. Always a visual highlight. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Well, Arrow is one and it doesn't.

 

People's mileage may vary, but a short list of comic-booky elements on Arrow would include: a guy with a bow and arrow who can routinely take out multiple guys with semiautomatic weapons; multiple earthquake machines; Mirakuru; supercomputers; the ATOM suit, costumed heroes and villains with code names.

 

I didn't know there was a Bible on time travel.  There are many different takes on it.  There's the Doctor Who where some things can be changed.  There's the Back To The Future version where everything can be changed.  And then there are some that say time can't be changed at all.  Lost.

 

No way to really know what would happen or even if it could happen.

 

Right, but someone like Barry should be familiar with the various hypothesis of what time travel involved, including the Butterfly Effect. The episode explicitly referenced Back to the Future and Terminator as just two of the possibilities, both of which Joe was familiar with. I'd assume that someone like Barry would be familiar with other time-travel philosophies and tread more carefully. 

 

As for the first part--see, I didn't think the Clarissa/Stein thing was handled any better than Caitlin/Ronnie. Why wasn't Clarissa going to Pittsburgh? Why a big emotional goodbye, when she could just go there? Is it because the military would track her and find Stein? If so, I wish that had been spelled out a bit more, because I missed it. That's also why the Caitlin/Cisco conversation made no sense to me. I get it if she needs to stay in CC and Ronnie needs to go to Pitt, but wouldn't they still be in a relationship? Just long-distance? I don't get where they stand, but she sort of made it sound like they're not together until this Firestorm situation is figured out or something. I just don't believe that's how humans who love each other would handle that situation. I'd be on Skype every night and planning meetups every few weeks, and we'd get through it. But there's no way I'd just go on a break from my newly-back-from-the-dead fiance, just because things are complicated.

 

I think it largely went without saying that Martin and Ronnie left Clarissa and Caitlin behind because they wouldn't be safe going along. Of course, that doesn't address that neither is actually safe in Central City. There is absolutely nothing stopping Eiling (well, outside the fact that Grodd is currently using him for a chew toy/punching bag) from abducting Clarissa or Caitlin to try to get a line on where Martin/Ronnie went to. It might also have made sense for them to take a bus or a  car or any one of the less high profile means of transport then leaving a trail of flame in the sky.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[driedfruit]

I'm still baffled at how easily Flash is beaten.  A bunch of exploding nails, really?  A bazooka?  It's very comic-bookie.

They were motion detectors, so supposedly attracted to Barry like a magnet would attract normal nails. 

 

I didn't know there was a Bible on time travel.  There are many different takes on it.  There's the Doctor Who where some things can be changed.  There's the Back To The Future version where everything can be changed.  And then there are some that say time can't be changed at all.  Lost.

 

No way to really know what would happen or even if it could happen.

 

Well, yeah, but we can't exactly have Barry going back in time to fix everything that goes wrong, so there has to be a big deterrent to time travel here, unlike Doctor Who. And Flash is no fun without alternate timelines, so that's a no to the Lost version. I think Back to the Future and Terminator were used as examples since those are the most similar takes to time travel the show will do. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by driedfruit

[Sandman]

You evidently never saw him on OLTL.  He was incredible.

 

I saw him on One Life To Live, and, speaking only for myself, I found him uneven. At his best, he could be riveting; other times he was clearly less engaged, and wasn't so much incredible, as just not believable. And I've never seen him play a character who didn't have a snide streak.

[benteen]

I get the weapon immobilized Barry but I don't know why he stopped before he knocked out the general.

[In2You]

And yet, that is the way it sounds.

How is it racist or sexist to want some diversity among the comic book hero live action shows? Especially when they are all being written by the same team thats applying the same lazy formulas to each?

[Jordan27]

People's mileage may vary, but a short list of comic-booky elements on Arrow would include: a guy with a bow and arrow who can routinely take out multiple guys with semiautomatic weapons; multiple earthquake machines; Mirakuru; supercomputers; the ATOM suit, costumed heroes and villains with code names.

 

No, I'm talking about cheesy elements of a show which seem to happen a lot more on Flash.

Right, but someone like Barry should be familiar with the various hypothesis of what time travel involved, including the Butterfly Effect. The episode explicitly referenced Back to the Future and Terminator as just two of the possibilities, both of which Joe was familiar with. I'd assume that someone like Barry would be familiar with other time-travel philosophies and tread more carefully.

 

My response was not about Barry, but about someone making claims about how time travel works when we have seen many versions and don't even know if it is possible.

Well, yeah, but we can't exactly have Barry going back in time to fix everything that goes wrong, so there has to be a big deterrent to time travel here, unlike Doctor Who. And Flash is no fun without alternate timelines, so that's a no to the Lost version. I think Back to the Future and Terminator were used as examples since those are the most similar takes to time travel the show will do.

 

The bottom line is we just don't know which was my point when people start talking about how time travel works.  We'll just have to see how this show plays it.

[Actionmage]

I don't know why he stopped before he knocked out the general.

 

I don't know why he stopped before everyone was out of the compound! And the needles/flechettes were supposed to be attracted to Barry's kinetic energy, which confused me went he was lying/standing still. Maybe we could have had a cool shot of Barry trying to outrun the flechettes? 

 

I also thought that the grab-the-phosphorous-missile was a callback to the slo-mo turn-the-missile-back-onto-the-drone training we saw a few episodes back. But, apparently forgetting anything useful Oliver may have imparted, Barry still just runs at things/people and punches them. Why is he a CSI if his go-to isn't working smarter instead of harder?

 

I don't see Iris as doing bad by Caitlin and Cisco. They refuse to entertain the idea that Wells is anything less than a misguided genius who had a bad break and look! Wheelchair!  Being straight with any of the the FlashMob is going to end in icy silence and defensiveness. Truths will not be told. So she has to actually work how she can, when she can to get at Truth. It doesn't mean Iris will never  be truthful with, or ask for truth from them, but these friends of Barry's aren't going to be honest about what they are doing, legal or not.  She might should have asked Eiling for the truth. Or her father.

"Hey, dad? Barry's felt...really distant since he woke up. It has only gotten worse since Christmas. Can you tell me why?"

 

But that would involve Joe being in a scene with his daughter and being honest. *sighs*

 

Victor Garber and Carlos Valdes FTW!

[Jordan27]

How is it racist or sexist to want some diversity among the comic book hero live action shows? Especially when they are all being written by the same team thats applying the same lazy formulas to each?

You can call it whatever you want, but race and sex were mentioned. 

 

I look for TV shows to entertain, not to try and fix some so-called political problem.

[Oscirus]

And yet, that is the way it sounds.

 

Did you just purposely miscomprehend the statement that you quoted in an attempt to scold me or did you genuinely not understand what I wrote? If you want, I can break down the sentence to make it easier for you to understand.

 

I look for TV shows to entertain, not to try and fix some so-called political problem.

 

I look for both, but, if you like your shows vanilla, more power to you, mate :).

 

Back on topic:

 

Has this show always  been so meta or did Flash and Arrow have a contest to see who could be more subtle when sneaking in that stuff?

 

Also who the hell got such a nice picture of Firestorm for Iris's blog?

"Hey, did you hear Mayor Garrick wants to add a Flash tax to his election platform?"

"A flat tax -- like a flat tax rate?"

"No, a Flash tax. It's to cover all the meta-human damages and loss from all the science-y gizmos and imploding flapdoodlers, and whatnot. Also, pizza places are gonna start charging higher rates on delivery orders. Danger pay, dude."

 

Flash: Here's your wallet ma'am.

Lady: Um, thanks for saving me from that mugger, Flash. There was only thirty dollars in my wallet and you destroyed my car windows which will cost more then that to replace but thanks you jerk.

 

"Hey, dad? Barry's felt...really distant since he woke up. It has only gotten worse since Christmas. Can you tell me why?"

 

Joe would use his go to move if this happened.  Running to Barry and telling him to talk to her.

[CooperTV]

Why Joe still think he's Barry's guardian? I'm guessing because he's his foster dad, loves him very much and like any other parent, he wants to protect his children. Or calling Joe Barry's dad is not done or something? Because it's exactly who Joe is and Barry certainly doesn't have this issue, since he called Joe that in the last episode.

 

Well's shadiness continue to delight and entertain me. He's such a master of screwing with people minds. Gen. Eiling should have seen it coming, though. He certainly underestimate our dear Harrison. The last scene with Reverse Flash was crazy awesome. I feel sometimes that I only watch this show for the Wells's scenes before the credits.

 

I liked everything about Firestorm, and Ronnie and Stein were great together. I'm not opposed to the Firestorm spinoff. I thought this part of the episode was spectacularly done.

 

Time travel is interesting idea but Barry is way to eager to screw up his own time-line. Plus he's kind of inept at fighting (how many times he made dumb stops in this episode waiting for bad guys to make their move?) so I've no idea how he's going to fight Reverse Flash (or whoever was in that costume 15 years ago).

[Trini]

Poor Eddie. Completely absent from this episode. I hope they still have plans for this character.

 

 

Time travel is interesting idea but Barry is way to eager to screw up his own time-line.

 

Yeah, if he saves his mother, then he would cease to exist, right? Because then he wouldn't become the Flash, so he wouldn't exist to save his mother.... gah! Time paradoxes!

[Xander]

Poor Eddie. Completely absent from this episode. I hope they still have plans for this character.

 

 

He said he's got a big storyline coming up and he's been shooting long days with Grant lately. 

[Sandman]

People's mileage may vary, but a short list of comic-booky elements on Arrow would include: a guy with a bow and arrow who can routinely take out multiple guys with semiautomatic weapons; multiple earthquake machines; Mirakuru; supercomputers; the ATOM suit, costumed heroes and villains with code names.

No, I'm talking about cheesy elements of a show which seem to happen a lot more on Flash.

 

I think Realism v. Cheese exists on a sliding scale -- everyone's experience is different, as Chicago Redshirt points out. It seems to me that there are elements of fantasy in Arrow that are treated as if they could be realistic, such as Oliver's skill with a bow, but, for me, that doesn't necessarily make them so. The other difference is largely one of tone. I find the brooding self-seriousness of Arrow a lot harder to take than The Flash's generally sunnier outlook, and it doesn't get much cheesier for me than Oliver's Flashback Adventures on Haircare Island.

 

Yeah, if he saves his mother, then he would cease to exist, right? Because then he wouldn't become the Flash, so he wouldn't exist to save his mother.... gah! Time paradoxes!

 

:: passes Trini the Extra-Strength, too. ::

 

We know (or can guess) that time travel is possible within the show, since both Barry and Wells appear to have done it. I find it a little rich (and, of course, self-serving) for Wells to talk about the risks inherent in trying to change the past.

 

And now I have to go lie down.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sandman

[In2You]

You can call it whatever you want, but race and sex were mentioned. 

 

I look for TV shows to entertain, not to try and fix some so-called political problem.

Race and sex being mentioned does not make a post racist or sexist. And wanting POC and women to be represented on TV has nothing to do with politics. Especially since they are the ones that make up the biggest percentage of TV watchers. If you knew anything about DC Comics you would know they have a diverse roster of heroes. 

[miracole]

The bottom line is we just don't know which was my point when people start talking about how time travel works.  We'll just have to see how this show plays it.

 

 

Not to mention one of my personal favs the  langolier theory that you can't go back it time because once a moment passes it's eaten by monsters with razor teeth...ah Langoliers...

 

I've liked Robbie Amell since True Jackson I liked him on TP too,  just didn't like the love interest they gave him on that show.

 

I like Roger H's acting. Also Finally someone who is pushing Iris instead of trying to hold her back. 

 

It really is ridiculous how many people know that Barry is the flash. Which is doubly ridiculous due to the fact that pretty much the first person who should have been told hasn't been yet.

 

Still don't see why Caitlin even had to lie to Iris about who Ronnie was. They could have told her that he was Catlin's fiancee who had been injured when star labs blew up. Why would that have been a big deal?  Team Flash makes bigger problems for themselves by constantly lying.

 

And I know this is from last weeks epi but Barry seriously irked when he got all upset about doing nice things for Iris even though she "will never love him" .  Ummm,  how about doing nice things for Iris because she's your oldest and best friend and has always had your back?!

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

We haven't seen enough of the characters' lives to know, but I'd have to presume that Barry told her that Caitlin's fiance died in the explosion. 

[nottopbravo]

I didn't know there was a Bible on time travel.  There are many different takes on it.  There's the Doctor Who where some things can be changed.  There's the Back To The Future version where everything can be changed.  And then there are some that say time can't be changed at all. 

 

Well, dealing in time travel in both Back to the Future, and Doctor Who you have a paradox.   

 

A pair of Docs. 

 

Okay, I'll let myself out.

[Amelie06]

 

Being straight with any of the the FlashMob is going to end in icy silence and defensiveness.

Emphasis mine. Is this what people have been calling them, or did you just come up with that? Either way, I love it! This is the perfect name for that crew.

 

As a hardcore Doctor Who fan, I'm already telling myself not to worry about this time travel nonsense. It will be crazy and stupid as almost all time travel stories are. I'm going to try to embrace it.

 

I agree that Barry seems way too eager to do something so dangerous.  Why does he assume that his knowledge now is somehow different than the knowledge of the Future!Barry in the past? I'll be looking for someone to point out to him that he is just making shit up and will most likely fail at saving his mother. I'm really hoping for something a little more interesting than evil Wells kills Barry's Mom to make him sad and then Adult Barry ineptly tries and fails to save his mom. It's a bit dull, considering we've worked out all of that at this point. I don't even get why there is a perception that Nora Allen had to die just to make Barry become the Flash. Do we really think Barry would have grown up as some fratboy douche who wouldn't use his Flashness (Flashiness?) for good?

Edited February 20, 2015 by Amelie06

[Maverick]

Do we really think Barry would have grown up as some fratboy douche who wouldn't use his Flashness (Flashiness?) for good?

Yes. The haven't gotten their money's worth out of The Wig from Arrow yet.

[33kaitykaity]

Hi, new to the forum, just have to ask, since if I rode in a guy's arms at whatever speed Barry can travel, at the end of a ride to escape that kind of explosion, my hair would not look like that, unless Barry has a force field or something that protects those things he carries in his arms from the sheer force of the atmosphere passing over them.  Ain't no [bleeping] way.  Can somebody reasonably explain the pattern-perfect large curls?  

 

I can't watch anymore until I understand this, especially if it's just wardrobe's failure to communicate the staging anachronism...

Edited February 20, 2015 by 33kaitykaity

[In2You]

I agree that Barry seems way too eager to do something so dangerous.  Why does he assume that his knowledge now is somehow different than the knowledge of the Future!Barry in the past? I'll be looking for someone to point out to him that he is just making shit up and will most likely fail at saving his mother. I'm really hoping for something a little more interesting than evil Wells kills Barry's Mom to make him sad and then Adult Barry ineptly tries and fails to save his mom. It's a bit dull, considering we've worked out all of that at this point. I don't even get why there is a perception that Nora Allen had to die just to make Barry become the Flash. Do we really think Barry would have grown up as some fratboy douche who wouldn't use his Flashness (Flashiness?) for good?

Because Geoff Johns retconned it that way is the answer. They're following Johns' Flashpoint Paradox story where all of a sudden it was decided Barry's mom needs to die  for him to be The Flash even though for years in the comics he grew up in a stable family and became The Flash.  

[Actionmage]

Being straight with any of the the FlashMob is going to end in icy silence and defensiveness.

 

Emphasis mine. Is this what people have been calling them, or did you just come up with that? Either way, I love it! This is the perfect name for that crew.

 

I saw someone else's brilliance and liked it as well. ::goes to look up when I saw it first::

 

eta: It was steelyis on the Episode 3 thread "Things You Can't Outrun", page 1, post #35. I am reasonably sure.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Actionmage

[Trini]

Hi, new to the forum, just have to ask, since if I rode in a guy's arms at whatever speed Barry can travel, at the end of a ride to escape that kind of explosion, my hair would not look like that, unless Barry has a force field or something that protects those things he carries in his arms from the sheer force of the atmosphere passing over them.  Ain't no [bleeping] way.  Can somebody reasonably explain the pattern-perfect large curls?  

 

I can't watch anymore until I understand this, especially if it's just wardrobe's failure to communicate the staging anachronism...

 

Everybody has perfect hair on TV! (Except vagrant!Firestorm) It's definitely a legit nitpick, though.

[wayne67]

Hi, new to the forum, just have to ask, since if I rode in a guy's arms at whatever speed Barry can travel, at the end of a ride to escape that kind of explosion, my hair would not look like that, unless Barry has a force field or something that protects those things he carries in his arms from the sheer force of the atmosphere passing over them.  Ain't no [bleeping] way.  Can somebody reasonably explain the pattern-perfect large curls?  

 

I can't watch anymore until I understand this, especially if it's just wardrobe's failure to communicate the staging anachronism...

 

 

Everybody has perfect hair on TV! (Except vagrant!Firestorm) It's definitely a legit nitpick, though.

 

I assumed that Barry just developed Speed Force offscreen and nobody commented on it hence how he was able to transport everyone around (minus Felicity) without burning their clothes/skin from the insane speeds that he now travels at.

 

Unless they're forgetting that his clothes used to burst into flame when he didn't wear his speed suit as they seem to ignore that at random since introducing that phenomenon.

Edited February 20, 2015 by wayne67

[Agent Dark]

Well, Arrow is one and it doesn't.

Arrow (and Gotham) are based on the Green Arrow and Batman comic books, which have always been based in a more "street level" vigilante setting.  The Flash however has always firmly been set in a Science Fiction setting, much like the Superman or Green Lantern comics.  I think you'll just have to accept that stories involving The Flash are going to naturally involve alot more Sci Fi comic book aspects than stories involving a guy using a bow and arrow to fight street crime are.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't even get why there is a perception that Nora Allen had to die just to make Barry become the Flash. Do we really think Barry would have grown up as some fratboy douche who wouldn't use his Flashness (Flashiness?) for good?

 

Hypothetically, without Nora's death in a strange way, Barry does not become interested in strange things. 

 

Without Barry becoming interested in strange things, Barry does not become a scientist looking for explanations.

 

Without Barry becoming a scientist, he doesn't study things in labs.

 

Without Barry studying things in labs, he's not around to get struck by lightning in his lab.

 

And without being around to be struck by lightning in his lab, Barry doesn't become the Flash.

 

Without Barry becoming the Flash, all sorts of bad things happen.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[KirkB]

Except that in the comics, at one point, it was a combination of lightning passing through the chemicals in the lab he was in at the time which turned Barry into the Flash in the first place. Here though it was explicitly the energy from the particle accelerator which hit Barry (and others). He could literally have been anywhere in Central City, within the range of the blast at least, and still been hit. Being in the CSI lab had nothing to do with it.

Edited February 20, 2015 by KirkB

[Sandman]

The effects of the particle accelerator blast were different for everyone; I'm  not sure we can eliminate the chemicals in the lab from the effect on Barry, since the show explicitly included that aspect of the first origin story. 

[Tangerine]

Hypothetically, without Nora's death in a strange way, Barry does not become interested in strange things. 

 

Without Barry becoming interested in strange things, Barry does not become a scientist looking for explanations.

 

Without Barry becoming a scientist, he doesn't study things in labs.

 

Without Barry studying things in labs, he's not around to get struck by lightning in his lab.

 

And without being around to be struck by lightning in his lab, Barry doesn't become the Flash.

 

Without Barry becoming the Flash, all sorts of bad things happen.

 

Here's my crack theory: Barry becoming the Flash also means creating the Reverse Flash in some way so he decides that is a sacrifice worth making. Time travel story lines totally wrinkle my brain.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Tangerine

[Chicago Redshirt]

Here's my crack theory: Barry coming the Flash also means creating the Reverse Flash in some way so he decides that is a sacrifice worth making. Time travel story lines totally wrinkle my brain.

That's actually a canon version of what happens, to the best of my recollection. RF is from the future, where Barry's life story and abilities are well-known. He spends a lot of time trying to duplicate the experiment that made Barry the Flash, and also learns the secret to time travel, and tries to manipulate time to his advantage.

 

[In2You]

That's actually a canon version of what happens, to the best of my recollection. RF is from the future, where Barry's life story and abilities are well-known. He spends a lot of time trying to duplicate the experiment that made Barry the Flash, and also learns the secret to time travel, and tries to manipulate time to his advantage.

 

Geoff Johns retconned some of the Reverse Flash history. They're following his Flashpoint Paradox storyline on this show.

Except that in the comics, at one point, it was a combination of lightning passing through the chemicals in the lab he was in at the time which turned Barry into the Flash in the first place. Here though it was explicitly the energy from the particle accelerator which hit Barry (and others). He could literally have been anywhere in Central City, within the range of the blast at least, and still been hit. Being in the CSI lab had nothing to do with it.

I believe the whole particle accelerator thing was a retcon they got from Geoff Johns Flash Rebirth too.

[Jordan27]

Race and sex being mentioned does not make a post racist or sexist. And wanting POC and women to be represented on TV has nothing to do with politics. Especially since they are the ones that make up the biggest percentage of TV watchers. If you knew anything about DC Comics you would know they have a diverse roster of heroes. 

Then what does it have to do with?

[Jordan27]

Arrow (and Gotham) are based on the Green Arrow and Batman comic books, which have always been based in a more "street level" vigilante setting.  The Flash however has always firmly been set in a Science Fiction setting, much like the Superman or Green Lantern comics.  I think you'll just have to accept that stories involving The Flash are going to naturally involve alot more Sci Fi comic book aspects than stories involving a guy using a bow and arrow to fight street crime are.

It's all according to how the producers want to direct it.  The Batman TV series was very cheesy, but the later movies were dark. 

 

They could make the Flash dark or cheesy.

[Jordan27]

I look for both, but, if you like your shows vanilla, more power to you, mate :).

 

Nope, I look for quality, not quotas mate.

[In2You]

Nope, I look for quality, not quotas mate.

 As long as it has a white male lead its a quality show right?

[Shanna]

I look for quality regardless personally and agent carter has far more than this show.

Maybe we could move on from this discussion?

So to the comic book people, any we will get to see victor garber in the future instead of Robbie Amell?

Edited February 20, 2015 by Shanna