S05.E07: Episode Seven

[RedHawk]

What was Mrs. Drewe trying to accomplish by going to Cora?

 

 

 

I sure wondered about that. And it solved my question about the interpretation of Mr. Drewe saying, "And she won't say anything either" to Violet in the last episode. I thought, does he mean that Mrs. Drewe won't reveal to Violet what happened with Edith or that she won't say anything to anyone about Edith having an illegitimate child that they had taken in? Well, Mr. Drewe was wrong about that, which I think was foreshadowed by Mrs. Drewe's rather marked turning of her head when he said it. She was mentally halfway to the Abbey already. She was definitely going to say something, she was. 

 

And, in the end, Mrs. Drewe was 100% right.  Edith did come back and carry off Marigold.

 

 

Yes, she did, after Mrs. Drewe cut off Edith's access to her and slammed a door in her face. Eh, I just can't weep over Mrs. Drewe's predicament. 

[CeeBeeGee]

I didn't see it as riduculous at all.  She obviously knew there was something very wrong with what was going on with Marigold and Edith, and she was most certainly correct.  She just didn't know exactly what was the problem.  And, in the end, Mrs. Drewe was 100% right.  Edith did come back and carry off Marigold.

 

Nothing was wrong.  Edith hadn't even left the grounds.  Mrs. Drewe overreacted, imagining a problem that didn't exist.

 

I knew someone would respond with "well, she was right, wasn't she?"  Edith came back and took her child because Mrs. Drewe CUT OFF Marigold from her, which was against the original agreement.  Again, overreaction to a problem that didn't exist.  Mr. Drewe should've explained everything to his wife at that point--his telling Edith to stay away was frankly cruel.

 

Oh well, the situation now is not the best--which would be Gregson and Edith married, raising their child together or failing that, Edith raising her openly acknowledged daughter at the Abbey or in London--but it's better than what it was.

[izabella]

Oh, what was wrong?

She knew Edith didn't want the family to know. (from her husband, who didn't even want HER to know) In my opinion she did it JUST to be cruel.

 

Edith didn't come back to carry off Marigold. She already had Marigold. And it was Edith's baby, to whom Mrs. Drewe had not one single solitary legal right. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

I haven't seen any reason to like Mrs. Drewe. Maybe I'd feel differently if Fellowes had written that scene, or even one scene showing her interacting with marigold instead of acting rudely to Edith.

 

What was wrong was that this "orphan" her husband had brought home was not actually an orphan but the Lady of the Manor's child.  What was wrong was the Lady of the Manor kept showing up to her house to fawn all over her, interrupt her sleeping and feeding schedule, and maybe flirt with her husband.  What was wrong was Edith and Mr. Drewe keeping this huge secret from her while expecting her to simply hand over her child to a stranger for hours every day when that stranger decided was a good time for her to show up.

 

Edith did absolutely come back to carry off Marigold before going to London with her.  That's exactly what Mrs. Drewe was afraid of after Edith started paying an inordinate amount of attention to Marigold and that's what Edith did.

I knew someone would respond with "well, she was right, wasn't she?"  Edith came back and took her child because Mrs. Drewe CUT OFF Marigold from her, which was against the original agreement.

 

 

The agreement to which Mrs. Drewe was not a party.  She had no idea this orphan belonged to Edith and that part of the arrangement for her taking in an orphan was that Edith got to play mom every day with her.

[CeeBeeGee]

The agreement to which Mrs. Drewe was not a party.  She had no idea this orphan belonged to Edith and that part of the arrangement for her taking in an orphan was that Edith got to play mom every day with her.

 

That's not Edith's problem, or Marigold's.  (Actually we don't know what Mrs. Drewe was told but my point still stands.)  That goes back to the Drewe's communication gap.  Edith was to be allowed access to the child and when she was cut off she stood on her legal rights, and Mr. Drewe should've anticipated that.  But in the end, what happened was that Marigold was reunited with her mother--which was in her best interests and which should be the overriding factor.  Not sure Mrs. Drewer running to Cora to blab was in her best interest but I'll let that slide.

 

Anyway, I've said my piece on this so...

[lucindabelle]

No I get all that Izabella.

But none of this has any bearing on what drove Mrs. Drew to go up to the Crawleys when she did. At that point she knew it was Edith's child. She knew Edith had taken the child.

What was her mission there, except flat malice?

 

CeeBeeGee, if Mrs. drew had been concerned about Marigold I think Mr. Drewe would have gone with her. She went to out Edith, against her husband's wishes, and to get revenge.

 

Since the scene is unwritten, we're each free to imagine what happened. But given her nasty attitude to Edith including believing the worst at every turn, and her ripping up a birth certificate (and when she did, she had no way of knowing Edith had another, so it was irresponsible if not criminal), I don't feel inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Edited February 16, 2015 by lucindabelle

[DeepRunner]

I am surprised by the Edith hate. But then, the character has been poorly served by this whole Marigold storyline. I sort of cynically wonder if Fellowes saw that Edith was getting the major sympathy play from Downton fans, and, not wanting his favorite child to be seen as the only universe-class B**** on the show, decided to level the playing field.

 

As far as Daisy goes, she has been at Downton for at least 12 years now (at least as long as Bates); she's had a chance every so often to go to the farm and run things. Hope for S6: As much as I would hate to see it, have Mr. Mason die and leave her the farm so she can leave the Abbey. Or better yet, have her go to America and connect with Ethan Slade, Harold's valet. Don't see her as a B**** so much as an underdeveloped character. 

 

Baxter...Baxter, Baxter, Baxter. She doesn't add so much to the show. Except to be Molesley's love interest. In this episode, she should have forced her way in to let the Bates know that Thomas was behind it. Baxter was better when she didn't seem frail.

 

Anna Bates...hmmm...wanting to gossip with Mrs. Hughes about seeing Mr. Drewe at the train station when Edith got off the train...not the right character for that kind of exchange. Now if Thomas had been the one to see it, THAT would have been interesting. But no, Fellowes is too busy letting Thomas rehab his image. Again.

 

As an aside, I have been watching S1 again. That was Downton's best year, I think. This year...meh...so far, anyway.

[SusanSunflower]

I suspect Mrs. Drewe was motivated by self-protection and the need to provide for her other children who (like herself) were completely innocent of any wrongdoing, but might be forced out of their present situation due to a secret agreement reached between Edith and Mr. Drewe. 

I don't think Mrs. Drewe had any "standing" to make trouble for anyone.  If she spread the story of Edith and her bastard daughter, she and her family would be cast out, damage done, unforgiven forever. It might look like a "trump card," but in real life, any attempted blackmail would be untenable and self-defeating. 

Fellowes (of course) does not tell us why Mrs. Drewe went to see Cora, much less what she said or what, if any, agreement they came to, except probably some reassurance from Cora that her discretion would be rewarded and the Drewes would not be 'punished' for their involvement in Edith's deception. There's no reason -- one way or the other -- afaict -- to think Mrs. Drewe had any idea what Cora knew at that point. She may have simply wanted to make sure that Cora knew that Marigold was Edith's child, Cora's grandchild -- because she had seen the birth certificate. 

[Constantinople]

Is it me, or does Mr Mason seem younger now than he did back in Season 2?

Admittedly, his son had just died, but even so.

[CeeBeeGee]

As an aside, I have been watching S1 again. That was Downton's best year, I think. This year...meh...so far, anyway.

 

I agree!  I loved that first season, so many great, well-written characters (LOVED the ending of the first episode) and just the right amount of melodrama (Cora slipping on the soap).  Season 2 was such a letdown, what with four years squeezed into one season, Tiny Tim becoming paralyzed and then regaining his legs, and everyone acting ridiculously out of character.

[ZoloftBlob]

Since the scene is unwritten, we're each free to imagine what happened. But given her nasty attitude to Edith including believing the worst at every turn, and her ripping up a birth certificate (and when she did, she had no way of knowing Edith had another, so it was irresponsible if not criminal), I don't feel inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

Oh I certainly don't doubt Mrs. Drewe went to Cora out of malice. In fact I will even go so far as to say there's no reason to doubt it. Mrs. Drewe was pissed.

 

I just get why she was pissed. Edith and Mr. Drewe have been playing her for a fool for what? Close to a year? A year where who got up when Marigold cried? Who fed Marigold and bathed Marigold and changed Marigold's shitty diapers and took time away from her own blood children to give Marigold love and attention. All to have the local lady of the house flounce in and take the child that she had grown to love and run with the child. Yeah, I bet Mrs. Drewe went up to Downton to let the Countess know what Edith had been doing purely for spite, so that Edith *would* get slapped with the slut label.

 

Edith actually got a bit of Mary's luck in wiggling out of this one - Cora wasn't pissed enough to fuck her over and somehow roped the Drewes into agreeing to top this little travesty off with having to tell their neighbors and their own children that they gave up their youngest daughter because they *were too poor*.. And the Drewes have to tell this humiliating story, that they're too poor to feed an extra child, because Lord Grantham holds their tenancy and could turn them out.

 

I think the pig farmer's debt to the Crawley family is paid at this point. And trust me - if this was the real world and not Downton, everyone in Downton would know by nightfall that the Drewes adopted daughter was unmarried Lady Edith's bastard.

[SusanSunflower]

Well, we've already seen Anna put 2+2 together and unless Mrs. Drewe is as friendless as Edith, her friends and neighbours and anyone she might have complained to about Edith's peculiar and overbearing "affection" for her youngest child will put 2+2 together quickly enough.  I guess I don't see Mrs. Drewe being "malicious" in wanting Cora to know what her daughter has been up to.  Obviously, ymmv. Mrs. Drew (hopefully with Mr. Drewe's assistance) has had time to process that the child was not -- in fact -- an orphan  and is now with its mother and that she has no legal standing whatsoever wrt any any claim on the child. 

[evilmindatwork]

Oh I certainly don't doubt Mrs. Drewe went to Cora out of malice. In fact I will even go so far as to say there's no reason to doubt it. Mrs. Drewe was pissed.

 

I just get why she was pissed. Edith and Mr. Drewe have been playing her for a fool for what? Close to a year? A year where who got up when Marigold cried? Who fed Marigold and bathed Marigold and changed Marigold's shitty diapers and took time away from her own blood children to give Marigold love and attention. All to have the local lady of the house flounce in and take the child that she had grown to love and run with the child. Yeah, I bet Mrs. Drewe went up to Downton to let the Countess know what Edith had been doing purely for spite, so that Edith *would* get slapped with the slut label.

 

Edith actually got a bit of Mary's luck in wiggling out of this one - Cora wasn't pissed enough to fuck her over and somehow roped the Drewes into agreeing to top this little travesty off with having to tell their neighbors and their own children that they gave up their youngest daughter because they *were too poor*.. And the Drewes have to tell this humiliating story, that they're too poor to feed an extra child, because Lord Grantham holds their tenancy and could turn them out.

 

Yep. I don't hold Mrs. Drewe's anger against her one bit. She has earned the right to a bit of malice at this point. I even like Edith but what Edith did to that family is completely messed up. Granted Mr. Drewe helped Edith out but there's nothing wrong Mrs. Drewe exercising her rage at this, to do otherwise would be super unhealthy. 

[JudyObscure]

Anna and Mrs. Hughes:  I didn't really see why either one of them thought seeing Mr. Drewe, Marigold and Edith at the train station was gossip worthy.  As far  as the servants know Edith is self-appointed Godmother of Marigold. She could have taken her shopping or to the children's ballet or whatever and then been returning her to Mr. Drewe.

 

I was glad to see Cora take a sudden interest in her daughter, but when she said she would never forgive Violet and Rosamund for not betraying Edith's confidence, and then immediately said, she wouldn't tell Lord Grantham because, "It isn't my secret to tell.,"  I was flabbergasted.  Doesn't she see that's exactly how Violet and Rosamund had felt?

 

Daisy is so full of herself now it's almost turned me against education.  I particularly hate hearing her talk about "bettering" herself in front of the very people she hopes to be better than.

 

Gloomy Bates and his slavishly devoted Anna have decided Baxter is a horrible person for telling the truth under police questioning.  Baxter didn't make trouble for you Bates, you made it for yourself when you went off half-cocked, buying tickets for murder, because your manly pride had been hurt.

 

I wonder if Mrs. Drewe is angry enough to try a little blackmail when the time is ripe?

[fishcakes]

I am surprised by the Edith hate.

 

I don't hate Edith because she's a fictional character. However, as fictional persons go, she's pretty objectionable. While before, she was mostly a self-pitying sad sack, within the last two episodes, she's behaved so appallingly that the last vestige of sympathy I had for her is gone. As others have mentioned, her disdain for Mrs. Drewe is astonishing, sneering about how she wonders who else Mrs. Drewe has "blabbed to," and once Cora outlines her plan to use the Drewes again and wonders whether Mrs. Drewe will go along, Edith dismisses it with, "let Mr. Drewe deal with her," as if she's just some irritating housefly with no feelings at stake. Then on Marigold's first day away from the family she knows, Edith leaves her in a hotel room with a stranger for a babysitter while she goes to play publishing tycoon. She whines to Cora that she doesn't know what to do, not wanting to go to America where she can really claim Marigold as her daughter because then she'll just be "Mrs. Thing in Detroit or Chicago" and she won't be able to run her company. So clearly when it comes to Edith's priorities, she puts the magazine ahead of her daughter. And finally when Cora offers her the option to have Marigold at Downton, Edith insists that her father and Mary not know because of what they'll think of her or how they'll treat her -- not Marigold, just herself. So in the end, she's not going to claim Marigold as her daughter; she's just going to pretend to be the selfless career woman who's taken in a poor orphan that the Drewes were incapable of taking care of both financially and because Mrs. Drewe "couldn't handle" another child, thus getting in a nice little dig at Mrs. Drewe yet again. Edith is not only going to lie to the rest of her family about who Marigold is, she is also going to lie to Marigold about who Marigold is, at least until she can be trusted not to tell anyone and ruin Edith's reputation, which is apparently Edith's main concern. Yeah, she sounds like a great mom.

 

And Gregson, seriously? You left your main and presumably only source of income to your mistress instead of to a trust with your permanently hospitalized wife as the beneficiary? You sound like an awesome person too.

 

On less blood-pressurey topics, I will be sad to see Sybbie and Tom go, if they're really going. Sybbie is adorable and I'm curious to see just how much more unflatteringly they can dress Tom. When he and Robert were bromancing in the library, the way his suit was buttoned right above his stomach but nowhere else made him look a little pregnant.

 

And I don't know, but I find it hilarious that after Larry Merton acts like a complete jackass and gets thrown out, he has to wait in the car until his papa's finished eating dinner.

Edited February 16, 2015 by fishcakes

[lottiedottie]

Is it me, or does Mr Mason seem younger now than he did back in Season 2?

Admittedly, his son had just died, but even so.

I said the same thing on Twitter last night! LOL He looked very refreshed and youthful compared to the last time we saw him.

[truther]

And I don't know, but I find it hilarious that after Larry Merton acts like a complete jackass and gets thrown out, he has to wait in the car until his papa's finished eating dinner.

I was so hoping that Lord Merton's snap response would be "well tell him to get out of the car, he's walking home."  Alas . . .

 

I don't watch this show nearly as closely as many, but I find I've come to despise most of the characters in it.  The early seasons dealt with genuine issues of purpose and survival, with actual important things like World War I calling Downton's very existence into question.  Now it's just sort of meandering.  Some of the same plotlines (cough Bates cough cough) are rehashed; people like Barrow just sulk around creating ever more inane problems; and the Crawleys, and their various associates, just drift from vapid issue to vapid issue.  None of them ever actually DO anything.  Maybe I'm not explaining it all too well, but there's just something lacking about it all.  I loved Atticus' aside about just ringing up the magazine for that reason -- here was this outsider who made an obvious suggestion and he's being hailed as some brilliant tactician by these morons who spend their days making problems for themselves. 

[Skeeter22]

Anna and Bates really are terrible assholes. Their treatment of Baxter reminded me of Anna giving Mrs. Hughes and O'Brien the stinkeye when they gave unflattering testimony at Bates' first murder trial. Instead of expecting your coworkers to lie to the police or under oath, Maybe Bates could stop being so murderous and shifty. I don't know why Baxter should even think about sharing her criminal history with them, she shouldn't be expected to lie to the police under any circumstances.

[RedHawk]

Baxter didn't make trouble for you Bates, you made it for yourself when you went off half-cocked, buying tickets for murder, because your manly pride had been hurt.

 

 

And there in the middle lies the reason I'm joining the "Free Anna!" movement. Bates bought a ticket because he intended to go kill Mr. Green. He is a murderer, or at the least, entirely capable of murder. Even Anna wasn't 100% sure he didn't kill Vera. Anna knows this and tiptoes around her own husband, hiding the secret of her rapist's identity "because Mr. Bates will kill him". This is NOT a healthy marriage! I'm ready for Bates to swing and Anna and Tom to fall in love. (Because also, Tom can procreate and apparently Bates can't.) Come on, season 6!

Edited February 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[fishcakes]

When Tony was first talking to Charles and later Mabel about, "well, I won't tell you why I can't leave Mary because it wouldn't be gentlemanly, but I enthusiastically encourage you to read between the lines of what I'm not saying about what may or may not have happened between Mary and me, which, by the way, totally happened," I was reminded of this:

 

Edited February 16, 2015 by fishcakes

[LittleIggy]

Question: Did they really say Kin-NAY-Mah (opposed to sin-nay-mah) back then?  That's what I thought I heard.

They did say that. I remember Alistair Cooke, who used to host MT, say that when he was a school lad they did in fact say it that way.

[JudyObscure]

Anna and Mrs. Hughes: I didn't really see why either one of them thought seeing Mr. Drewe, Marigold and Edith at the train station was gossip worthy

What was gossip worthy was that Mr. Drewe helped Cora and Edith out of the train, got into a first class coach and took a child on his lap. He had no child when he got into the train so where did it come from? It's not the fact that they were all at the trains station at the same time, it's the magically appearing child.

That's why I was suggesting that the child obviously came from Edith and it was not a big deal. It seems to me that there might have been plenty of plausible reasons why Edith might have had Marigold on the train with her and was passing her back to her father. Perhaps after Marigold had spent a day in town so Edith could buy new baby shoes for her little goddaughter. Edith would have bought Mr. Drewes's first class ticket as a matter of course. I think that makes as much sense as, Edith got off, Mr Drewe got on and picked up a baby, the baby must be Edith's illegitimate child. It just seemed like a stretch to me that both Anna and Mrs. Hughes would immediately have their antenna up about this.





[lucindabelle]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think you EVER earn the right to be malicious. Mad, yes. Deliberately malicious, no.

Many people haven't forgiven Edith for writing the letter that could have ruined Mary. To my mind, Mrs. Drewe is attempting to do the same thing. And if word gets out, it will make little Marigold into a bastard. How is that good for her?

And how will it help Marigold to know her foster mother deliberately attempted to harm her mother?

 

Sorry. She had a temper tantrum, she cried, and that should have been the end of it. But again, we don't know what happened. If she were concerned, OK. But if it's malice, it's not OK with me. It in fact shows her to have been a poor role model for Marigold in the long run. People who are adults can be angry without seeking revenge to be malicious.

 

I think what Edith did to Mary is also very very wrong, but she was a teenager then, no? While Mrs. Drewe's plan may have come to nothing, it doesn't let her off the hook.

 

Also it wasn't "luck" that kept Edith safe. That was her own mother Mrs. Drewe was talking to. Presumably Cora loves her daughter.

 

ETA: of course my general disapproval of malice might be one reason I am not more successful in life. I've been harmed by people but beyond keeping out of their way, the notion of seeking revenge is just really foreign to me. Daydreaming about it, sure. Acting? no. (I'm not of course talking about legal matters where you just want to be made whole!)

Edited February 16, 2015 by lucindabelle

[beeble]

Isis is clearly the favorite daughter, and with good reason. I must confess that I'm surprised Robert hasn't had Isis up in the bed already. Cora is an "anything goes" American so I'm sure she'd have been fine with it. A double bed (the bed doesn't look big at all) isn't much to hold a fully grown lab and two adults so Cora and Robert don't really know what they're in for. Me and the Mr. share our queen size bed with our 60 pound Pit/Aussie Shepherd mix, and we usually wake up at the edges of the bed while she stretches out fully in the middle.  Poor Isis. Perhaps they'll replace her with a puppy they steal from the Drewes.

[SusanSunflower]

I think it was the combination of Mr. Drewe in first class -- which, no, I don't think Edith would have normally paid for -- anymore than Mary would have Anna travel with her in first class when they go to London (even clean and proper Anna, lady's maid, much less Mr. Drew, pig-farmer). (I may be wrong about this, but I don't recall ever seeing Anna traveling "with" Mary on the train). The odder thing was that Edith asked Mr. Drewe to help with the luggage (why would she ask him, with porters others better to ask such assistance from) and then they all exited and he "popped" into their vacant carriage, to be last seen as the train pulled out with baby on lap  -- Did Anna recognize Marigold? ... plain odd, unusual even. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[moonb]

That's why I was suggesting that the child obviously came from Edith and it was not a big deal. It seems to me that there might have been plenty of plausible reasons why Edith might have had Marigold on the train with her and was passing her back to her father. Perhaps after Marigold had spent a day in town so Edith could buy new baby shoes for her little goddaughter. Edith would have bought Mr. Drewes's first class ticket as a matter of course. I think that makes as much sense as, Edith got off, Mr Drewe got on and picked up a baby, the baby must be Edith's illegitimate child. It just seemed like a stretch to me that both Anna and Mrs. Hughes would immediately have their antenna up about this.

 

Based on that scene, they shouldn't. But I thought the scene was a callback to the episode 1 scene where Anna and Mrs Hughes are cleaning up Edith's room after the fire and find the picture of Marigold under her pillow, and exchange knowing looks. I interpreted the way Mrs. Hughes talked indirectly about Mr. Drewe/Edith/ Marigold  - "as long as the child's safe and taken care of" - that she knew the real situation. On two scraps of evidence, whereas Edith's own family can't figure it out without being directly told.....but still. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by moonb

[beeble]

Edith looked great in London, anxiety notwithstanding.  She inhabits the role of business woman much easier than aristocrat, so I'm surprised she's going to stick around DA.   Edith wants to run the publishing company, but she has to be in London to do this, right?  Unless the plan was for Marigold to be at the big house while Edith runs the company in London. Surely Edith can't run it from DA, and why would she want to? She has to put up with Mary's bitchiness, possible malicious gossip from the Mrs. Drewe, and watching her father dote on everyone else before even remembering that she is his daughter.  She can set herself up (with help from Cora and her grandmother) in London and know she's happy being independent and out of everyone's hair.

[ZoloftBlob]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think you EVER earn the right to be malicious.

 

Well, I certainly never said Mrs. Drewe earned the right to be malicious, I was simply agreeing that there's no reason to think Mrs. Drewe went to Cora out of concern. She was pissed, she wanted Edith to get into trouble. I don't see any reason to try to twist it into a decent act - she was acting out of anger. That I understand why she was angry and can be sympathetic to her situation doesn't mean I am endorsing her behavior. Does that action make her a poor role model for Marigold? Maybe, but Marigold is currently being raised by Edith who had no problem fucking Mary over out of anger - and she wasn't a teen, she was at least twenty when the Pamuk thing went down - and who has no problem throwing the Drewes under the bus, making them humiliate themselves as "too poor to raise a child" to the village all so Lady Edith doesn't have to admit she had a child out of wedlock. Seems like the lesson Marigold will be learning is that the ends justify the means.

[SusanSunflower]

Malicious means, afaik, to intend to cause harm, and I've already said that I do NOT presume that Mrs. Drewe intended to harm anyone ... that she went out of self-protection and wanting her side of things to be heard.  If she was angry (and I wouldn't expect her to have "gotten over it" so quickly), she was confronted by -- I have to imagine -- by Cora's utter ignorance of the situation, so one-mother-to-another an understanding was struck. The "Mrs. Drewe is too busy to care for another child" scheme is stupid in oh so many ways, but insulting Mrs. Drewe's ability to care for her adopted child, and then forcing her to be part of the ongoing lie is ridiculous, but the whole bloody scheme is stupidity squared). 

 

eta: And someone, anyone, needs to give Edith a real dressing-down wrt using people, lower-class and poor people and servants, badly -- conduct unbecoming and unworthy of a Grantham (or whatever). 

Edited February 16, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[alias1]

Since Fellowes would not us see the scene between Mrs Drewe and Cora, I choose to believe she was genuinely concerned about Marigold.  I've never seen any malice in Mrs Drewe.  The only time she ever had any contact with Edith was when Edith was forcing herself into their family, fawning over Marigold, and acting quite obsessed, in my view.  If I were  Mrs. Drewe I would see Edith as slightly unhinged (and a little worried now that she knew Edith had every right to her).  Unless Fellowes does a followup as to what her intent really was, I give Mrs Drewe the benefit of the doubt that she only had Marigold's best interests in mind.

[lucindabelle]

There were a few people saying she had earned the right for a little malice, is all. I'm just saying I don't agree. I thought Mrs. Drewe was rude, though not malicious, in ascribing the worst possible motives to Edith and refusing to let her in the house. Ripping up the birth certificate? Who does that? What if it had been Edith's only proof?

 

As for Edith forcing herself-- that was the arrangement she had with Mr. Drewe. It's all his fault. Rather than seeing Edith as unhinged, Mrs. Drewe should be reassessing the entire situation and seeing that all Edith wanted was to be around her baby. She wasn't fawning or obsessing etc. She was just trying to see the little girl, which was the whole point of the arrangement in the first place. Did Mr. Drew really think Edith would just give the baby up because Margie was upset?

 

I am glad Cora knows now,, but. If Mrs. Drewe's concern were all for Marigold than why did she tell Cora she'd been "used very badly?"

I agree that Edith is making a huge mistake going back to DA.

I don't thinks she's at all a bad mother for leaving Marigold with a babysitter. I don't think people who work and have kids in childcare are bad parents either, though.

 

And I do see a big difference between a sister writing a malicious note at age 20 to a mother who is probably closer to 40 going out of her way to get someone in trouble. If I were Edith I'd take the baby and run. She won't, though, because Fellowes.

 

I would love this to be the last we see of the Drewes. But it probably won't be.

Edited February 16, 2015 by lucindabelle

[ZoloftBlob]

Since Fellowes would not us see the scene between Mrs Drewe and Cora, I choose to believe she was genuinely concerned about Marigold.  I've never seen any malice in Mrs Drewe.  The only time she ever had any contact with Edith was when Edith was forcing herself into their family, fawning over Marigold, and acting quite obsessed, in my view.  If I were  Mrs. Drewe I would see Edith as slightly unhinged (and a little worried now that she knew Edith had every right to her).  Unless Fellowes does a followup as to what her intent really was, I give Mrs Drewe the benefit of the doubt that she only had Marigold's best interests in mind.

 

I absolutely think this is possible (are there script books for season four and five?) but I am more than willing to assign Mrs. Drewe the worst possible motive - because at the end of the day, she was used by both Edith and her husband. Edith can perhaps insist to herself that she never told Mr. Drewe to not tell his wife who Marigold really came from, but she did know - because Mr. Drewe did tell Edith this - that he had no intention of telling Mrs. Drewe that Edith was the mother. So as things escalated during Edith's visits, Edith at least was well aware that she was participating in a lie to Mrs. Drewe.

 

I am glad Cora knows now,, but. If Mrs. Drewe's concern were all for Marigold than why did she tell Cora she'd been "used very badly?"

 

Because she was used badly. Lady Edith and Mr. Drewe conspired to put a child in her home, and both lied to her about the nature of the relationship. She was told that she and her husband were taking in an orphan from a friend of his. She clearly loved that child. She raised that child for a year, and put up with Lady Edith fawning over it and her husband, and when she put her foot down over it, Lady Edith takes the child because surprise, its really Lady Edith's and Mrs. Drewe has been lied to by both her husband and Lady Edith for what, a year?

 

I mean, is she supposed bend at the knee and kiss Lady Edith's ring and thank her for the privilege of having her heart ripped out?

 

*And I am not absolving Mr. Drewe of his awful deceiteful place in this, but you're asking why Mrs. Drewe felt badly used by Edith - that's why. Lady Edith conspired with her husband to place a child in her home and then merrily tore apart the family because after, what, a year? Now Lady Edith wants to raise her own child... but of course, not as *her own child* because she still wants to maintain her reputation.

[fishcakes]

I don't thinks she's at all a bad mother for leaving Marigold with a babysitter. I don't think people who work and have kids in childcare are bad parents either, though.

 

I don't think parents who work and leave their children with sitters are bad parents. But that's an oversimplification of what Edith did. Edith took Marigold away from the people she believed were her parents and siblings to an unfamiliar place. Less than 24 hours later, with seemingly no regard for whether Marigold might be confused or afraid at this turn of events and that it might be better, as the only person Marigold knows, to stay with her, Edith instead left her with a stranger. And not just a stranger to Marigold, a stranger to Edith as well. That doesn't sound like good parenting to me. And it's not as if Edith had to go to work. Gregson's been gone for two years and when have we ever seen Edith working? She spent months in Switzerland and the majority of the rest of the time at Downton; clearly, her presence in the office isn't required.

[ennui]

Lots to catch up on ...

 

Going way back to the first (?) page, I agree that Cora is a hypocrite. Cora is angry that she has a secret grandchild, but has no problem hiding Marigold from Robert.

 

I think the key to the Merton dinner scene is that it was Tom who stood up for Isobel. Everyone else was focused uncomfortably on their soup. So, it was commoner Tom and commoner Isobel, and then the others sort of tagged on. If Tom hadn't stood up, no one would have said anything. I imagine Isobel has a lot of thinking to do. It would have been nice if Lord Merton had stood up first.

 

Rose / Atticus. A lesson in marrying too quickly. I'm reminded of Frozen, you can't marry a man you just met. Yes, they're cute and giddy and Rose is impulsive. I won't be surprised if Atticus has a dark side.

 

I'm a little squicked by people who want Tom and Mary to get together. They're brother and sister (in-laws) and it's icky. How many people here would hook up with their in-laws?  There's a relationship there, even if it isn't biological. Look at the Woody Allen uproar.

 

Oh, even though it's getting old, I'd like to know who killed Green. Maybe Anna wasn't his first victim.

Edited February 17, 2015 by ennui

[evilmindatwork]

 

As for Edith forcing herself-- that was the arrangement she had with Mr. Drewe. It's all his fault. Rather than seeing Edith as unhinged, Mrs. Drewe should be reassessing the entire situation and seeing that all Edith wanted was to be around her baby. She wasn't fawning or obsessing etc. She was just trying to see the little girl, which was the whole point of the arrangement in the first place. Did Mr. Drew really think Edith would just give the baby up because Margie was upset?

 

I am glad Cora knows now,, but. If Mrs. Drewe's concern were all for Marigold than why did she tell Cora she'd been "used very badly?"

I agree that Edith is making a huge mistake going back to DA.

I don't thinks she's at all a bad mother for leaving Marigold with a babysitter. I don't think people who work and have kids in childcare are bad parents either, though.

 

And I do see a big difference between a sister writing a malicious note at age 20 to a mother who is probably closer to 40 going out of her way to get someone in trouble. If I were Edith I'd take the baby and run. She won't, though, because Fellowes.

 

I would love this to be the last we see of the Drewes. But it probably won't be.

 

 

But she was "used very badly".  She took in an orphan child and raised her as her own daughter. She didn't know that the child she gave her heart to could be ripped away from her.  Edith conspired with her husband to deceive her. Mr. Drew is at fault here too but Edith wasn't exactly falling all over herself to be honest about the situation with Mrs. Drewe either. 

 

I actually can't judge, at this point, what kind of a mother Edith is-- I certainly don't judge her for having a nanny/baby-sitter. However, I have to say, that judging by the decisions she's made for Marigold at this point in time, she's certainly not going to be a consistent or emotionally stable mother.  

Edited February 17, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[lucindabelle]

Is it less than 24 hours later? I thought the dinner party was a few days later.

In any case, I just don't see that having a sitter while she's at work is traumatizing to the child. A child who knows her already.

Until we see some evidence of Marigold being upset, I'm not buying it.

 

Can't fault Gregson for not leaving his business to his insane wife or her family. We don't know that he didn't leave her a trust. I suspect more is coming on the Gregson front.

[SusanSunflower]

Edith's remorselessness towards Mrs. Drewe in conversation with, I think it was, her mother made Mary look positively cuddly in comparison. It did not read as "I can't deal with her pain right now"  so much as a declaration that Mrs. Drewe and her feelings wrt Marigold did.not.matter -- See also leaving Marigold with a strange new babysitter in a hotel. What work would be more pressing than getting some sort of a place to live and some permanent household help. I agree that this isn't "The Front Page" and Edith isn't Rosalind Russell, but damn it, I'm amazed she manages keep herself fed. Poor Marigold!  Oh, never mind. Downton will provide. 

 

eta: I'd be very surprised if more is coming on the Gregson front ... it should have arrived already ... funeral arrangement, his wife's care, his apartment, even his office. Edith would not have immediate access to funds minus a death certificate and probably probate/settling his estate, so she would need, at very least, to have meetings with his lawyers, even if she was (and I think she was) power-of-attorney. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Kohola3]

Unless Fellowes does a followup as to what her intent really was, I give Mrs Drewe the benefit of the doubt that she only had Marigold's best interests in mind.

 

 

I really couldn't care less about Marigoldgate but I think some are reading way too much in speculating what Mrs.Drewe might have said to Cora or what her motives might be.  In reality, it was probably JF pondering "how can Cora find out" and came up with "I know, I'll just have Mrs. Drewe visit Cora. No need for details.  Done!"

 

I don't believe he put more thought into it than to move the plot forward.  

[alias1]

I really couldn't care less about Marigoldgate but I think some are reading way too much in speculating what Mrs.Drewe might have said to Cora or what her motives might be.  In reality, it was probably JF pondering "how can Cora find out" and came up with "I know, I'll just have Mrs. Drewe visit Cora. No need for details.  Done!"

 

I don't believe he put more thought into it than to move the plot forward.  

Totally agree with this (ha ha).  JF is probably laughing his head off that people are putting so much thought into this simple plot contrivance.

[SusanSunflower]

Does anyone know if this sudden surge in speculative homeownership among the servant classes has any basis in real reality-reality (rather than JF's rose-colored glasses fantasy?).  We had Anna and Bates with that London house; Mrs. Pattimore's inheritance, Daisy's farm and Carson/Hughes retirement investment -- Thomas should have plenty saved after all these years.  Moseley and Baxter are new but younger and probably eminently employable for a few more decades. (Violet should poach both of them. I'm not amused by her petty tyrant of a butler, while her maid probably does the bulk of the work under his watchful eye and constant criticism.) 

 

I'm not sure who the houses that Tom and Robert keep talking about building are intended for, beyond vague "replacing horrid run down old tenant buildings" but since they then talk about selling them, I'm not sure that it's not a money-making scheme. ... 

[WatchrTina]

Can I just give a little love to Rose?  When her beau proposed she did not (as I expected) say "Yes please."  She actually pointed out that they really barely know each other.  And then she said yes.  That demonstrated more sense than I had expected of her.

 

That being said, wasn't everyone acting very weird about Rose and her beau?  They all just seemed to assume the two were going to get engaged.   Even Larry the loser presumes it (and how the hell would he know how close they are?)  I just found it odd that it was a foregone conclusion. I do think that dating in that time and in that class was very purposeful.  Single young people did not spend time with one another just for fun. There was an unspoken but clearly understood agenda -- especially for girls in the months following their debut.  Still, it seemed oddly tacky for everyone to be discussing their prospective marriage before anything official was said.

Edited February 17, 2015 by WatchrTina

[fishcakes]

Is it less than 24 hours later? I thought the dinner party was a few days later.

 

Now that you say that, I realize that Cora and Rosamund didn't go to London until the day after the dinner party, but the party itself was the day after Edith left with Marigold. So it was actually less than 48 hours later, not 24, which is slightly better but still surprising considering that she made a nuisance of herself at the Drewe's house and then once she has Marigold, she's like, "later, kid!"

[shipperx]

Again, I think the story has left out too many scenes and is written simplistically. The truth is that Mrs Drewe is a farm wife with four relatively small children and there was no reason to think she was actively seeking to adopt. Then her husband tells her that a heretofore unknown friend is leaving them a less than year old child. I think its generous to take in the baby into her home and heart, but I think casting it as all cuddles and giggles and soft baby smells is unrealistic. There would have been harried, rushed days when nerves frayed and frustration rose and small siblings with occasional resentments of the baby requiring attention alrewdy split between four. I'm not saying that it wasn't a very fine home or an unhappy situation or that it couldnt work because history is full of large fsmilies. But I do think it's naive to think a hardworking turn of the century mother with four children of her own would be without moments of ambivalence, doubt, and frustration at the introduction of a young child she didn't seek who needs a great deal of attention. It's human. I am NOT saying she didn't love or cherish Marigold or that she would be happy to lose the child she took care for most of a year. Clearly that is not the case. I just think we've been shown the situation in a simplistic outline fashion devoid of much nuance. There were scenes that would have allowed us greater insight into these people (all of them) that we were not given, leaving us to fill in too many vague unknowns with projection and supposition.

Edited February 17, 2015 by shipperx

[Crs97]

Ripping up the birth certificate? Who does that?

A person who is living a nightmare of having her daughter be taken from her and desperately trying to protect her family

[Friendly Lurker]

Here's a thing - how easy or difficult would it have been for one of the villagers (Mrs. Drewe) to walk up to the Abbey to talk to one of the bosses? Are the Grantham's even their bosses...or are they just landlords.....or something?

 

I know nothing about this time, I'm so tempted to start a thread where questions like this can be answered (or if one already exists please point me in it's direction!)

[Haleth]

Omigosh, poor Isobel! I wanted to punch both Lord Merton's sons for their snooty, insulting comments. How dare they stick up their noses at the lovely lady their father has asked to marry him. Jerks. So now she'll feel obligated to turn him down. So sad.

Of course I cried more about Isis. Poor sweet pup.

[RedHawk]

Bates has wrecked my last nerve. He and Anna are in a snit with Baxter for putting them in a "bad situation"? It's ALL on Bates and I just can't -- Anna sitting there also showing her disapproving face to Baxter. HE took a day off to go commit murder. Baxter had not one thing to do with it and if she had told the police what she knows it would be within her rights to tell the TRUTH of what she saw and overheard. She withheld information, and if the police learn that she did know about a London ticket being found in Bates' pocket and didn't tell them, she could go back to prison. He's a bigger ass than Robert! 

 

how easy or difficult would it have been for one of the villagers (Mrs. Drewe) to walk up to the Abbey to talk to one of the bosses? Are the Grantham's even their bosses...or are they just landlords.....or something?

Lord Grantham is their landlord. They are tenant farmers. How easy was it to talk to Cora? Well, it was just a matter of presenting herself at the back door. Thomas announced to Cora that "a person, a Mrs. Drewe from Yew Tree Farm" was downstairs asking to see her. His usage "a person" shows how he ranks the wife of a tenant farmer. Cora had no idea what it was about, but she recognized Yew Tree Farm and was willing to see Mrs. Drewe immediately.

Edited February 17, 2015 by RedHawk

[ennui]

Here's a thing - how easy or difficult would it have been for one of the villagers (Mrs. Drewe) to walk up to the Abbey to talk to one of the bosses? Are the Grantham's even their bosses...or are they just landlords.....or something?

 

I know nothing about this time, I'm so tempted to start a thread where questions like this can be answered (or if one already exists please point me in it's direction!)

I imagine if one of the farmers showed up at the door, hat in hand, and asked to speak to the lordship, and the lordship was home and available, it would happen. These people aren't completely inaccessible; Robert speaks to people in the town and seems to know their names, etc.

[RedHawk]

Was Mabel Lane Fox being a little risque when she proposed taking a walk in the Abbey gardens and archly said to Tony, "Tony can be our guide, I'm sure you know the gardens pretty well by now."

 

After sex week, yeah, I bet he does know Mary's gardens pretty well.

 

Tony tells Mabel Lane Fox, "I can't tell you why I can't let go of Mary. All I can say is that you would understand if you knew." Do you think Mabel -- who is no dim bulb -- has an inkling that her man has been intimate with Mary? He sure made sure to say without saying to Blake that he indeed knew Mary's gardens. All this "I can't let her go, it would not be honorable of me now". Please Tony, Mary cut you loose with a sharp knife, so don't play the "but I must make her an honorable woman" card!

 

When Rose clues Atticus in about Edith running away but tells him to keep mum, he says, "Ok, it will be our first secret!" Oh yes, probably a lot more secrets to come for these two. He really is quite bright. No wonder the rush to marriage. This family desperately needs to add new people who can up their I.Q. numbers.

 

The thing about Atticus suggesting that they call the office in search of Edith, and how obvious that was. In a way it shows how unusual it was that Edith (the daughter of an Earl) had a "job" and an "office" to go to. Even though they knew she had inherited the business, no one other than Atticus imagined she might have gone to London to look after her interests -- and find if the income would make her wealthy enough to get out of the Downton Triangle once and for all.

Edited February 17, 2015 by RedHawk

[txhorns79]

Bates has wrecked my last nerve. He and Anna are in a snit with Baxter for putting them in a "bad situation"? It's ALL on Bates and I just can't -- Anna sitting there also showing her disapproving face to Baxter.

 

I was just like: "Wow, you've almost justified what a jerk Thomas is to you.  Congrats." 

 

I also give Isobel a lot of credit for not slapping the crap out of Lord Merton's awful, awful children.  I know he blamed the boys' mother for the way they acted, but you have to figure their behavior isn't all coming from their dead mom.  He must have played a role as well. 

[izabella]

I think the key to the Merton dinner scene is that it was Tom who stood up for Isobel. Everyone else was focused uncomfortably on their soup. So, it was commoner Tom and commoner Isobel, and then the others sort of tagged on. If Tom hadn't stood up, no one would have said anything. I imagine Isobel has a lot of thinking to do. It would have been nice if Lord Merton had stood up first.

 

Yes, I think you're right.  Isobel will wonder if he would ever stand up for her against his boys, and whether she really wants to be in the middle of a life where he really doesn't.