S05.E06: Episode 6

[Merneith]

All you people with stone hearts can come over and sit at my table. I have no use for Edith. Every problem she has is something she caused herself - from kissing up to married men, having unprotected sex outside of marriage, dumping her baby off on a variety of other people, refusing to confide in all the people who ask her, "What's wrong?", refusing to ever really investigate Gregson's disappearance, not to mention trying to drag Strallen into marrying her, to, finally running away with a child with no better plan than room- service ice cream. No cutting remark from Mary is even close to the damage Edith tried to cause over Pamuk's death. To hell with Edith.

I still love Bates. I don't even care if he's a murder. I never cared in the first place and I care even less now. Some people need murdering. I just love Brendan Coyle's smile.

Side-saddle - all steeplechasing is dangerous but sidesaddle is definitely more dangerous than other types of riding. In addition to the obvious part about being of center, the saddle itself can damage the rider's leg. Side saddles have hook at the top and the rider wraps her right knee around it. There's a second hook on the left side, and the rider wedges her left knee into that. Squeezing the top hook with the right knee is how the rider holds on over jumps. Anyway, squeezing with the knee can cause damage to the rider's knee muscles. Edith Somerville of the excellent Royal RM series, actually gave herself a permanent limp because of the side saddle.

Prince Kuryagin = total dish. Dowager C - Definitely check the status on Mrs. Prince Kuryagin but maybe keep your options open in case you get good news. I mean bad news. I mean ... oh you know damn well what I mean, Violet.

 

I did enjoy how everyone at the breakfast table was like, "Aw hell. Edith's got a telegram."

Edited February 10, 2015 by Merneith

[helenamonster]

I don't see that happening that way.  Edith would want to feed Marigold herself, and I think she would then maybe sing her to sleep.  She would want to cherish every moment until Marigold was safely asleep.....then Edith would enjoy her glass (or two) of champagne.

 

But still, the drinking champagne alone thing just seems so sad to me. Wine, maybe, but champagne? When I think of champagne, I think of things like weddings or holidays, where you're with a bunch of people and you're toasting and you're happy. The thought of a grown woman, sitting in a hotel room with no one but her toddler daughter, drinking even just a glass of champagne by herself? That's one depressing image, at least to me.

 

Though maybe it is rather fitting. Edith is basically alone, except for Marigold. She has no one to celebrate this "victory" with. Yep, still depressing.

 

On re-watch I noticed an establishing scene just before we see Edith and Marigold enter the hotel room in London. It shows a double-decker bus, which is a number 13, and one of the listed stops is Piccadilly Circus. Could this be a sighting of the Bus of Justice?!

 

Beep beep, Edith!

[Lillybee]

It looked like servants downstairs are more concerned about Edith than her own family was.

[Badger]

Regarding Thomas and the Duke, I think he kept the letters because he was in love with the Duke.  I don't think the idea of blackmail entered his mind until the Duke gave him the brushoff.  And if you watch when he leaves the room, Thomas is crying. Apparently in the audiocommentary for Season 1, someone says it's the only time we see that Thomas has a heart.  

 

Also, JF says that the scenes between Pamuk and Thomas were meant to suggest that Pamuk was kind of leading Thomas on a bit if inadvertently.  

 

I wonder if Marigold is potty trained since I didn't notice a nappy bag anywhere.  Also, regarding Edith, I don't believe she is Rosamund's daughter.  I think they are close at least in part because neither one was a social success when they came out unlike Violet, Cora, Mary and Sybil.

[ennui]

Merneith, I agree with your assessment of sidesaddle riding. When Mary was seated, I thought we were about to witness disaster (remember Bonnie Blue and GWTW?). I was relieved when nothing happened. And then I thought about all the ways that women died young, from illness to childbirth to riding sidesaddle. 

[DeepRunner]

I generally don't agree with the oft bandied-about charge of "lazy writing" (writers generally work to the limit of their talent, which in some cases is a low limit, but the issue is not assiduousness), but there is no other way to figure Fellowes' evasion of this scene. He came up to it, realized that writing it would be hard, and didn't feel like putting in the work.

 

I would bet, though, that if it were Mary, there would have been no end to the scene, let alone no writing around one. But then, Fellowes likes the B****-Goddess more.

[lucindabelle]

I think the thing about cocktails is that a cocktail is, by definition, a mixed drink. Such things only began appearing around that time, before that you might have a glass before dinner than various wines, and the men would have brandy afterwards while they smoked cigars and then went to rejoin the ladies.

A sidecar, an old fashioned... All of these date from the 20s or a bit earlier. Not the 19th century. Back in wilde and shows heyday it was all hock and soda.

So Carson disapproves of them whether they are served before dinner or after dinner.

I distinctly remember in upstairs downstairs the serving of sidecars and who can forget Anthony Blanche in brideshead revisited with his. Brandy Alexander's?

These were the cosmos of their day...

 

Edited because autocorrect makes me silly.

 

Also, I think it would have been hard liquor before dinner because sherry is a wine, and going from grain to grape makes you sick, but not the other way, which is why even today you have your Manhattan and THEN have dinner.

Edited February 10, 2015 by lucindabelle

[Llywela]

I also don't get a celebratory feel from the scene.  She is essentially celebrating having just taken a child away from her perceived mother and father, her siblings, environment, and stability.  The child would probably actually have been wailing or softly whining, after all of the trauma, and yes it is trauma.  I can't totally buy into the kids are resilient, they won't remember line of thinking.  A stressful episode like this will leave a mark that ice cream won't help.  Maybe rocking her, reading a story, something like that would be more appropriate than ice cream and champagne, but she really does not have any idea about that unless she has spent significant time with George and Sybbie, which we have not seen.

I don't want to get into another round of debate about Edith vs Mrs Drewe, but I still say that my littlest sister is adopted, she was in our lives from the age of one week, living with us from the age of six months, finally adopted just before she turned four. When she was 13 months old her birth mother snatched her and she wasn't returned for two weeks. It was traumatic for us as a family. But it also had a profound impact on her, even though she was only a baby. The health visitor saw her during that fortnight and her assessment was that the baby was depressed. And later, once the adoption had gone through and she knew she was safe. she started talking through memories of that fortnight - even though she was only 13 months old, it had made such a deep impression that three years later she was able to describe to us things that had happened, which we were able to verify by looking back at what her mother had told us at the time. Babies are aware of more than we realise, and being uprooted like that has an impact.

[madam magpie]

Kids, human beings in general actually, are able to be both traumatized and incredibly resilient. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and childhood events affect different people in many different ways and on a wide spectrum. Marigold is a fictional character, so she will be whatever the people who write her want her to be, but she's also been pretty beloved all her life. She's not been neglected, mistreated, abused, or abandoned. She's been surrounded by several people who loved and wanted her. That's a really big deal in a child's development and can go a long way in mitigating the instability of her early life. Her mother isn't a drug addict or detached or cruel or abusive at all. In fact, Edith adores Marigold and wants her in a very fierce and protective way. I have adopted friends and family members; that's its own unique, very real, very strong bond and relationship, and certainly isn't any less valuable than a biological one. But it doesn't necessarily negate the biological one either. This is pretty unique situation, and its one that's tangibly unfamiliar to a 21st century audience. Edith didn't give up her baby because she couldn't care for her or didn't want to be a parent or didn't bond with her. She did it because the time and society she lived in would have made both of them pay dearly if Edith acknowledged her. So the bond was broken and Marigold affected by the lack of it before the Drewes or the Swiss couple came along. Yeah, it's a terrible shame for everyone how it all went down, but the parent/child bond that was broken was Edith/Marigold, not Mrs. Drewe or Mrs. Swiss couple/Marigold. Edith taking Marigold back restored the initial bond; it didn't just break a new one for Marigold. For Mrs. Drewe it did. But if we're picking someone to get hurt in this scenario, I choose Mrs. Drewe over the baby.

Edited February 10, 2015 by madam magpie

[lucindabelle]

But in this case the baby had not been with an adopted mother nearly so long. Edith was her mother for he first few months, not, as your sister, with her adopted mother from the age of one week-- at that point she was with edith, then she was briefly with the schroeders, then at yew tree farm where she continued to see edith constantly. We don't know how long Shes been at yew tree farm but it appears to have been less than a year.

Your description suggests that prior to the snatchingm your sister didn't know the birth mother,

The situations are not analogous. Not that Fellowes writes realistically in any case.

[Andorra]

BTW I find the Bates' marriage really awful. Do they every tell each other the truth? She thinks he is a murderer, he knows who attacked her, but doesn't say it. He knows she thinks he is a murderer, but doesn't talk to her about it either. He thinks she doesn't want his children, but she doesn't tell him the truth about Mary even though she knows he would never betray a member of the family.

And it's not if they were EVER honest with each other. Bates has lied to her on every possible occasion under the disguise of "protection" and only told her the truth about his time in prison, Vera, him leaving Downton etc when she found out the truth herself.

What kind of sick relationship do they have?

And do people really think it's romantic???

[sacrebleu]

I actually wasn't horrified by everyone's cold attitude over Gregson's 'official' death. It's consistent with "Gosford Park" nobody who knew the victim shed too many tears, the one person who did, the widow's sister, was criticized for making such a fuss.

"Anyone would think you were Italian" I believe was Charles Dance's line.

 

Maybe it is a toff thing. (or a JF interpretation of a toff thing.) 

[wlk68]

Maybe it is a toff thing. (or a JF interpretation of a toff thing.)

 

 

A combination of this plus the whole 'stiff upper lip / keep calm and carry on' mentality? The Victorians were very repressed and even though DA takes place later than that, I'm sure the influence of that era lingers. 

Edited February 10, 2015 by wlk68

[lottiedottie]

I think the thing about cocktails is that a cocktail is, by definition, a mixed drink. Such things only ebay appearing around Thai time, before that you might have a glass before dinner than various wines, and the men would have brandy afterwards while they smoked cigars and yen went to rejoin the ladies.

A sidecar, an old fashioned... All of these date from the 20s or a bit earlier. Not the 19th century. Back in wilde and shows heyday it was all hock and soda.

So Carson disapproves of them whether they are served before dinner or after dinner.

I distinctly remember in upstairs downstairs the serving of sidecars and who can forget Anthony Blanche in brideshead revisited with his. Brandy Alexander's?

These were the cosmos of their day...

I need an autocorrect translator for some of this! LOL! Ebay? Thai? Totally made me giggle.

[terrymct]

Why does a dog have to sicken and die just because it's name is Isis? 

 

 

ISIS really come to high visibility in 2014.  It was in June 2014 that the group declared itself a world caliphate and named itself the Islamic State.  The current season, season five, was broadcast in the UK in September of 2014 (per Wikipedia).   I found an article in the Daily News from April 2014 that said season five was currently filming.    Michelle Dockery apparently posted on Instagram on August 18 that filming was done.

 

Basically, Fellowes would have been well into the filming of Season Five before ISIS even announced their name.  He'd have had about two months to modify his scripts and potentially go back and film a bit more for already completed episodes.  Has he definitively said he killed off the dog because of the name?  Seems like a tight timeline and it could be a coincidence.

[Haleth]

I used to love Edith but what she did was not cool.  It was selfish and immature.  She should have handled it very differently, starting with coming clean to her family.  After the initial shock and horror you know her parents would have come around.  (Even Violet understands.)  I still think little Marigold would have been better off with the Drewes, but if Edith was determined to get her baby back doing it with the support of her family would have made the transition more acceptable to everyone and certainly less jarring to Marigold. The stuff is really going to hit the fan when the reason for Edith's flight becomes public.  Unless she's planning on leaving England she surely won't be able to keep the baby a secret for long.

 

It occured to me that it's obvious who pushed Greene in front of the bus.  

Frank Underwood

.  Who else?  LOL

[JudyObscure]

Just thinking.  For many of us, breast feeding during the first few months was an almost constant thing.  My baby nursed every two or three hours around the clock and took about an hour to feed.  Add in the long train ride from the Shroeders to the Drewes, with maybe a night or two in an hotel, and all the long-enough-to-be-irritating visits at the Drewes and I'll bet Edith has spent far more hours holding Marigold than Mary has holding George.  George's primary care-giver has always been Nanny and his first devoted Nanny had to be fired and a complete stranger brought in. Poor Sibbie was actually abused by Bad Nanny.  What a messed up threesome they will make when they reach maturity.  I demand a sequel!

[editorkel]

Mary with new haircut=Johnny Depp in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[Andorra]

As someone else pointed out: ISIS only appeared in the news in June 2014. The episode with "sick Isis" was already filmed then! And it was probably written half a year earlier!

 

So the whole "Isis can't die just because of a name" is complete BS, sorry!

[Avaleigh]

Which reminds me, at Downton they are only now, in 1924 beginning to have drinks before dinner, right? Did they only begin drinking after sitting down to dinner before? There's a whole thing about "cocktails" and Carson not approving and Robert pouring his own drink -- and one for Tom -- before dinner (which appeared to be straight scotch or something). I don't quite get all that and how it's part of the changing times.

I thought that they would typically have sherry before dinner prior to the cocktail trend eventually taking over.

 

She was almost as bad as when Edith said to her over Sybil's deathbed, "This is the last time that all 3 of us sisters will be together.  Do you think that you and I can be closer in the future?"  and Mary's reply was, "I doubt it."  The woman is COLD.

 

At the risk of niticking, it really wasn't quite as bad as that IMO. Edith wasn't the one who said "This is the last time that all three of us sisters will be together." That was Mary's line. Edith asks Mary "Do you think you and I might get along better now in the future?" Edith wasn't saying let's try to get along let's try and be better sisters to each other, or I want to try. She was asking a question and Mary decided to answer honestly with "I doubt it" rather than lying to and being fake with Edith about what she thinks will happen. She then follows that up with "But since this is the last time we all three shall be together in this life, let's love each other as sisters should." Then she goes in and leans for the hug. I thought it was a touching moment and I liked how genuine both of the characters were in this scene. Of all of the moments to single Mary out for I actually feel like there's an absence of bitchiness here.

 

Gregson's been gone for over two years and it's obvious Edith hasn't turned into a media mogul as she's moped at Downton, nor during her pregnant sojourn in Switzerland. And the insight that lets her knock off her co!umns is not nearly the same thing as business acumen.

I have to agree. I don't know that we've seen anything to indicate that Edith is prepared to or capable of successfully running a newspaper. How has it been running all of this time in Gregson's absence anyway?

 

But still, the drinking champagne alone thing just seems so sad to me. Wine, maybe, but champagne? When I think of champagne, I think of things like weddings or holidays, where you're with a bunch of people and you're toasting and you're happy. The thought of a grown woman, sitting in a hotel room with no one but her toddler daughter, drinking even just a glass of champagne by herself? That's one depressing image, at least to me.

 

Though maybe it is rather fitting. Edith is basically alone, except for Marigold. She has no one to celebrate this "victory" with. Yep, still depressing.

I agree and that's why I called the scene bittersweet. At the end of the day I'm glad that Edith has her kid I just wish she hadn't had to upset and hurt so many people in the process. I don't have any objection to her having a glass of champagne but I do agree that it was a depressing image. This is supposed to be a victory but it doesn't totally feel that these two figures are necessarily moving on to being in a better place

 

 I'll bet Edith has spent far more hours holding Marigold than Mary has holding George.  

This is really turning into quite a competition. 

Edited February 10, 2015 by Avaleigh

[SailorGirl]

"But still, the drinking champagne alone thing just seems so sad to me. Wine, maybe, but champagne? When I think of champagne, I think of things like weddings or holidays, where you're with a bunch of people and you're toasting and you're happy. The thought of a grown woman, sitting in a hotel room with no one but her toddler daughter, drinking even just a glass of champagne by herself? That's one depressing image, at least to me.

 

Though maybe it is rather fitting. Edith is basically alone, except for Marigold. She has no one to celebrate this "victory" with. Yep, still depressing."

 

(Note -- I am intentionally leaving Marigold out of this post because bottom line is that she is young enough now that being pulled from the Drewes is not something that will be in her memories. My opinion here is 100% about Edith and her decision.)

 

Speaking as a single woman with no children, husband, or close family, I completely disagree -- this is a HUGE personal victory for Edith. She is celebrating her decision to finally take control of a situation she has felt has been out of her control since she left Marigold in Switzerland. She went along with the decisions because that is what a proper lady of the time was supposed to do, and the role she has always played in the family, even though she knew in her heart it wasn't right. Just because you don't have someone to have that celebratory glass of champagne with doesn't mean you shouldn't have it! Why deny allowing yourself to feel happy and be proud about something you've done simply because you are alone?

 

Why do you need someone else there to validate that happiness or make it a "real" celebration? She is toasting herself and her decision, and she doesn't need anyone else there to do that.

It drives me crazy when people think that its sad that I do things on my own because I have no one to do them with. Guess what -- I'm not missing out on anything I want to do in this life -- be it see a movie, travel, or drink champagne to celebrate a personal victory -- simply because I don't have someone to do it with. I have single girlfriends who won't do things because they are alone, then the complain that they missed out on whatever it was. Get over it, and just go do what you want to do. Screw what anyone else thinks. Meanwhile, I've travelled to Hong Kong, Thailand, London, Paris, and done some really cool stuff, all by little ol' self. And I have, on occasion, had a glass (or bottle!) of champagne to celebrate something in my life. All by myself, with no one else. And it wasn't sad, or depressing, or anything else negative. It was having a glass of champagne, being happy for myself, and not needing anyone else to validate it, or make it "real" or anything else. Being alone diminishes nothing. 

 

And that's what Edith has finally done for herself, for the very first time -- she said screw what anyone else thinks, I am going to do what is the right thing . . . for me (and by extension, Marigold) and no one else.

 

I see this as a potential character game-changer for Edith. Not that it will happen this way, but she's finally stood up for herself against an entire life of being dismissed, put down, told what to do, and basically being given no chance to shine or be her own person, always cast in the shadow of Saint Mary. Hopefully, there will be no going back to being Sad-Sack Edith.

 

Trust me, although I'm not a middle child, I know from experience that sometimes the ONLY way you can find out who you are, stand on your own two feet, and be true to who YOU are is to completely walk away from your family. You know who you are and no matter how hard you try to show that to your family, the role they think you belong in is the only way they will ever see you -- and they will do everything in their power to keep you there, especially when you start to divert from the role they've put you in, through no choice of your own. And they won't understand when you reach the point of feeling like you have to leave for your own sanity and survival. And even years later, they will still pigeonhole you in the role they cast you in, regardless of whether that is, or ever was, reality. While its a nice idea that families support each other and lift each other up, that is not reality. If you had that, congratulations. Not everyone does. I didn't, and Edith sure doesn't.

 

Edith is happier and more confident when she is away from the pigeonholed role she is put in by her family. When she made the decision to write for Gregson's paper, it was essentially against her family's opinion (mainly Donk's), but she was happier because of it. Every time she tries to offer a glimpse of herself, the things she does or wants to do to show who she is, the family puts her down, dismisses, or criticizes her for it. By doing what she's done, she's finally said, "enough of this bullshit."

 

Even if the family decides to "cut her off" in an attempt to bring her back (again, trying to maintain control over her and trap her in the role they've assigned to her, whether she belongs there/deserves it or not), she has Gregson's paper now, and has income of her own.

 

For a woman of that time period -- especially an unmarried woman -- what Edith has done is MAJOR. She has taken the first step to be an independent woman, free of her family, who is going to live life on her own terms, regardless of what people think. That is huge for anyone, but especially in that time period? Order a magnum of champagne, Lady Edith, and toast yourself with every glass!

 

She finally took a major step to take control of her own life -- maybe not in the best way, but when you've never done it before and are changing bad-for-you situations that were created by others, you don't always do things in the best way possible -- at that point you feel like you are doing whatever you have to in order to find a way to survive -- you do whatever it is you can think of finally, for once, do what is right for you and no one else. It is terrifying when you do it, and heady when you realize what you've actually done for yourself, for the first time ever. What ultimately matters is that she did it.

 

I say raise that glass of champagne to yourself and your decision Edith -- you deserve it, and earned it -- who cares if anyone else is there to celebrate with you -- this is your moment -- the first one that is truly yours alone. She doesn't NEED anyone else to toast with her -- it isn't about anyone else but her, for the first time in her life. Having someone else to toast with would, in my opinion, diminish the importance of what she's done.

Edited February 10, 2015 by SailorGirl

[Andorra]

I don't see the depressing aspect in Edith's celebration either: She is finally free! Free of her family, free of Mary, free of social dictates that tell her she can't have her child! If that's not a reason to celebrate I don't know what is?

Cheers, Edith! To you and your daughter, you did the right thing!

[izabella]

Hopefully, there will be no going back to being Sad-Sack Edith.

 

Considering how this series has gone with Edith, I have no doubt that Edith's latest adventure will go the same way all her other adventures have gone. 

 

Pamuk and Gregson were both major steps away from her family.  One led to Edith losing Strallen, and the other led to Edith falling for a married man and having his child out of wedlock.  Running away from her family after abruptly taking Marigold from her adoptive families twice isn't a promising start.

 

Maybe Edith can fall in love with whoever has actually been running the newspaper for the past two years, and he'll accept Marigold because he and Gregson were secret lovers too.  That sounds about right for Edith. 

I don't see the depressing aspect in Edith's celebration either: She is finally free! Free of her family, free of Mary, free of social dictates that tell her she can't have her child! If that's not a reason to celebrate I don't know what is?

Cheers, Edith! To you and your daughter, you did the right thing!

 

I guess I don't see her as free.  All of the social dictates remain in place, her family is still her family and she still has their name.  Everyone she ever knew will think of her as the disgraced daughter of the Earl with a bastard label stuck on Marigold, so she will still have that problem only for real rather than imagining it.

[Avaleigh]

You can toast yourself and be happy, even when you are alone. Why do you need someone else there to validate the happiness?

Just to clarify, for me it isn't that she's alone that primarily makes the scene depressing. To me the victory comes across as hollow because it feels like there's no plan and that I'm just supposed to assume that everything will work itself out because Edith has money. The other thing of course is that Edith doesn't seem all that happy in the scene. She seems like someone who is trying to act cheerful, trying to believe that this is the best and that everything will work out but knowing that it's all likely going to be uphill from here especially emotionally. 

 

The other part of course is that I find it sad that Edith has completely shut her family out when we hear her say in this very episode that she loves them. I see her hurting them (and other people) much more than she needs to and it seems like this has mainly boiled down to Edith's selfishness more than anything else. There are so many other things that she could have done especially when she was still in Switzerland. Edith was actually lucky in that she was a woman who had many more options than someone like Ethel but she still ended up making a huge mess of everything and people like poor Mrs Drewe just have to suck it up. It's sad. Edith is having champagne and we know that while she is doing that Mrs Drewe is still feeling the fresh loss of a child she'd bonded with and seeing little reminders of the child they'd taken in and felt was "one of [their] own". Meanwhile Edith's family is all worried about her (with the possible exception of Mary) but I guess it's supposed to serve them right that they don't know where she is because they weren't mourning over Gregson in the way that Edith would prefer? To me that seems unreasonably harsh.

 

Cora in particular I don't think has done anything to deserve being treated this way by Edith when I've constantly seen Cora compliment Edith, show interest in her, try to make her feel better, etc. 

[Llywela]

(Note -- I am intentionally leaving Marigold out of this post because bottom line is that she is young enough now that being pulled from the Drewes is not something that will be in her memories. My opinion here is 100% about Edith and her decision.)

I know you wanted to leave Marigold out of your post, but this statement here is the reason I posted that anecdote from my own family experience somewhere above. At one year old, Marigold is absolutely old enough that being taken from the family who've been caring for her all these months will be in her memories. It happened to my adopted sister when she was younger than Marigold, just 13 months old (and yes, she did know her birth mother already, just like Marigold - she'd had visits) and years later she was still talking about it. The insecurity stayed with her throughout her childhood, a fear that wasn't conscious but deep down in her psyche, because she'd been taken once so it could happen again. This will (or should) absolutely have an impact on Marigold - she is at a massively formative age, an age where such an abrupt dislocation will stay with her.

[kpw801]

I know you wanted to leave Marigold out of your post, but this statement here is the reason I posted that anecdote from my own family experience somewhere above. At one year old, Marigold is absolutely old enough that being taken from the family who've been caring for her all these months will be in her memories. It happened to my adopted sister when she was younger than Marigold, just 13 months old (and yes, she did know her birth mother already, just like Marigold - she'd had visits) and years later she was still talking about it. The insecurity stayed with her throughout her childhood, a fear that wasn't conscious but deep down in her psyche, because she'd been taken once so it could happen again. This will (or should) absolutely have an impact on Marigold - she is at a massively formative age, an age where such an abrupt dislocation will stay with her.

That is strange to me because I don't remember much of anything beyond kindergarten years.  Maybe some people are different.

[kpw801]

Just to clarify, for me it isn't that she's alone that primarily makes the scene depressing. To me the victory comes across as hollow because it feels like there's no plan and that I'm just supposed to assume that everything will work itself out because Edith has money. The other thing of course is that Edith doesn't seem all that happy in the scene. She seems like someone who is trying to act cheerful, trying to believe that this is the best and that everything will work out but knowing that it's all likely going to be uphill from here especially emotionally. 

 

The other part of course is that I find it sad that Edith has completely shut her family out when we hear her say in this very episode that she loves them. I see her hurting them (and other people) much more than she needs to and it seems like this has mainly boiled down to Edith's selfishness more than anything else. There are so many other things that she could have done especially when she was still in Switzerland. Edith was actually lucky in that she was a woman who had many more options than someone like Ethel but she still ended up making a huge mess of everything and people like poor Mrs Drewe just have to suck it up. It's sad. Edith is having champagne and we know that while she is doing that Mrs Drewe is still feeling the fresh loss of a child she'd bonded with and seeing little reminders of the child they'd taken in and felt was "one of [their] own". Meanwhile Edith's family is all worried about her (with the possible exception of Mary) but I guess it's supposed to serve them right that they don't know where she is because they weren't mourning over Gregson in the way that Edith would prefer? To me that seems unreasonably harsh.

 

Cora in particular I don't think has done anything to deserve being treated this way by Edith when I've constantly seen Cora compliment Edith, show interest in her, try to make her feel better, etc. 

In Edith's defense, I don't blame her for shutting them out.  Whenever she has been open with them about anything they (especially her father) put her down.  He was ridiculous about Anthony Strallen and beyond off-putting and condescending about her column.  They already consider her an abysmal failure with no prospects beyond "helping out" when they have company over, so to tell them anything about her less than ideal situation was out of the question.  She made the decision to retrieve her baby when she believed the only thing she had connecting her to the man she loved was the child she bore to him.  It isn't as if Edith is the only Crawley who has made bone headed decisions.  Her father would be penniless if it weren't for Lavinia Swire's family.  Mary nearly threw her reputation away because she was stupid enough to sleep with Pamuk and then she did something even more stupid with a man she didn't really care about.  No one in that family (since it is a soap) has the right to point fingers.

[lucindabelle]

Llywela, I think you've told this story several times now, and while what happened toyour sister is very real,  many of us don't see it as analagous to Marigold's situation.

 

Edith did not give her baby up at one week. She breastfed her. She's been a constant presence in her life.It's been a sort of bumpy life, to be sure, but I don't think taking her away from someone who's had her for much less than a year is going to damage her very much. YMMV, clearly.

[txhorns79]

This will (or should) absolutely have an impact on Marigold - she is at a massively formative age, an age where such an abrupt dislocation will stay with her.

 

I can believe it may initially be traumatic for Marigold, but I'm having trouble believing a one year old (or however old Marigold is) is going to take this with her forever, provided the rest of her life is stable and Edith proves to be a good mother.   

[SailorGirl]

The other part of course is that I find it sad that Edith has completely shut her family out when we hear her say in this very episode that she loves them. I see her hurting them (and other people) much more than she needs to and it seems like this has mainly boiled down to Edith's selfishness more than anything else. There are so many other things that she could have done especially when she was still in Switzerland. Edith was actually lucky in that she was a woman who had many more options than someone like Ethel but she still ended up making a huge mess of everything and people like poor Mrs Drewe just have to suck it up. It's sad. Edith is having champagne and we know that while she is doing that Mrs Drewe is still feeling the fresh loss of a child she'd bonded with and seeing little reminders of the child they'd taken in and felt was "one of [their] own". Meanwhile Edith's family is all worried about her (with the possible exception of Mary) but I guess it's supposed to serve them right that they don't know where she is because they weren't mourning over Gregson in the way that Edith would prefer? To me that seems unreasonably harsh.

 

Cora in particular I don't think has done anything to deserve being treated this way by Edith when I've constantly seen Cora compliment Edith, show interest in her, try to make her feel better, etc. 

 

Just because you love your family doesn't mean they are good for you and doesn't mean you should allow them to mistreat you under the guise of "love." If that were the case, abuse victims would never leave, divorces would never happen, and all families would be happy and intact.

That is what makes these types of actions so hard -- okay, maybe she is hurting them, but look at how they have hurt her for years. At what point do you finally stand up for yourself and stop letting others hurt you? So its better for Edith to suffer and be hurt to stay in the role they've pigeonholed her so so they don't get hurt? Why are their feelings more important than hers? Eventually, they will all go away in one way or another and she is the one she has to face in the mirror every morning, not them. At the end of everything, it is only you who you have to face and answer to, no one else.  

And the difference is, for Mary and Donk, they will dismiss her leaving as nothing more than Edith "being Edith," while to her, it is her whole life -- everything that is important to her, that she cares about, that they are dismissing. To them it is insignificant but to her, it is everything -- her whole life and the very core of who she is. So their "hurt" will be more of an annoyance than the deeper hurt she has experienced for years. But because they are family and "love" each other, that's okay. Um, no. It is NOT okay.  

 

You call it selfishness, and maybe in a way it is, but others have been selfish and doing what was best for them (Mary) and hurt Edith in the process, and she's just supposed to be okay with it because they are family, but when she, for once, does something that is best for herself, and worries less about how it will hurt others, she's the bad person? I don't think so. 

 

As I said, when you reach a point where you KNOW the only way you can survive -- and it is a matter of survival -- is to take a drastic, decisive action, you are in survival mode -- you do what you have to, regardless of whether someone else -- family or otherwise -- think it is "right." What someone else thinks is "right" DOES NOT MATTER. For the first time ever, the only thing that matters is you. And if you are the person who has never been made to feel like you matter or what is important to you is equally of value to others, then you are the only thing that SHOULD matter. You are fighting to survive. But it is also harder, and more scary, because you are doing what you know is right for yourself, even though it goes against everything you've ever been told or experienced.

It is heartbreaking and confusing when you realize that the people who are supposed to love you and want nothing but the best for you are the biggest roadblocks in you having the life that is right for you.  It doesn't mean you love them any less, it just means you are figuring yourself out, on your own terms. And as heartbreaking and confusing as it is, it is also very VERY powerful. We will see what Fellowes does with it -- whether he continues to build Edith's character or if he allows her to be broken down again. I know in real life that once you realize things and take some decisive steps to change it, going back is not an option. 

 

I wouldn't expect her to be 100% happy right now -- she is conflicted -- she knows she has a challenging road ahead of her but that its one she must take if she wants to have a peaceful and hopefully happy life. She is toasting that she finally stood up for herself and did what was best for herself rather than listening to her family tell her what was best for her, when they clearly don't know. What someone else thinks is best for you is just that -- their thought. Whether or not it really is best for you, only you can decide. And Edith has finally seen that. 

 

Edited February 10, 2015 by SailorGirl

[ennui]

So, for the moment, it looks like Edith snatched the farmer's child? Marigold's been kidnapped, more or less?

[ShadowFacts]

I think everybody surely is different with regard to early childhood memories, but I have some of when I was 18 months old, and my kids recount memories from when they were about that age.  At any rate, I think there is little doubt that a child will have residual effects from being taken from their stable, warm, loving home with parents and other relatives, a routine, etc.  She's been with that family longer than a few months.  It's a big deal.  No one can predict how she will turn out in the long run, but it will be different than if this hadn't happened to her.  She shouldn't be moved about like a game piece. 

[Avaleigh]

It is heartbreaking and confusing when you realize that the people who are supposed to love you and want nothing but the best for you are the biggest roadblocks in you having the life that is right for you.  It doesn't mean you love them any less, it just means you are figuring yourself out, on your own terms. And as heartbreaking and confusing as it is, it is also very VERY powerful. We will see what Fellowes does with it -- whether he continues to build Edith's character or if he allows her to be broken down again. I know in real life that once you realize things and take some decisive steps to change it, going back is not an option.

I actually agree with what you're saying, SailorGirl, I just don't think it applies to Edith's situation because she doesn't know how her family would react if they realize everything she's been going through. I'd feel very different about this if she'd confided in them and they then decided to be roadblocks to her happiness in some way.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I'd be willing to believe Edith had done something wrong if I actually thought she had. I don't. No need to insult my intelligence for that. The people at fault here, I think, are Mr. Drewe and Mrs. Drewe for shutting Edith out in th e first place.

 

I think Edith is directly responsible.  She gave up her baby, then changed her mind and took the baby from the Swiss couple, approached Tim Drewe, gave the baby to he and his wife, then changed her mind again, and took her away.  That's all on her.  The Drewes are guilty of trying to help Edith (that is Tim initially, and sadly he felt unable to tell his wife the truth that he suspected), so no good deed goes unpunished.  No matter Edith's motivations or familial or societal forces, she is the driver in this train wreck.

[jordanpond]

From reading through this thread, it seems that the opinion that the family was not insensitive to Edith's reaction at the news of Michael's murder boils down to a few points, so I'd like to address them one at a time: (I'm skipping Mary and referring only to the rest of them.)

 

#1 "Edith's family wasn't insensitive to her grief because they didn't know the extent of her relationship." I have to disagree for two reasons. First, if one family member sees another taking bad news harder than expected, I don't think a loving family member's reaction would be, "I don't understand why she is this upset, therefore she is wrong in being this upset," but rather, "I don't understand why she is this upset, maybe she was closer to the person than I thought."

 

Second, the family did know something about Michael: they knew that, at a minimum, he was an employer with whom Edith enjoyed working, and that she liked him enough to see him outside of work, including a few visits at Shrimpy and Susan's and at Downton Abbey. Not to mention that they also discovered that he had left his newspaper to her. Sure, they didn't know the whole story, but they did know enough to understand that this would affect her deeply.

 

#2 "Edith shuts her family out, therefore they can't be more kind to her." I disagree with this, because I find the reverse to be true: Edith's family has been shutting her out (not always, but in significant ways) since season one, long before she ever met Michael, and also while she was seeing him socially.

 

A few examples:

Cora: She is the main person responsible for helping her daughters to find good marriage partners. In the two seasons that Mary was unattached (in season two she had Richard, in season 3 she was married to Matthew, and in season 5 she has been continuing a relationship started in season 4) five men were brought to Downton as partners for Mary: the duke, Matthew (brought for other reasons,too, but in several episodes was definitely intended by Cora and others for Mary), Evelyn. Anthony, and Tony. Despite Edith never being married, no man was ever brought to Downton for her.

 

Robert: He has openly criticized Edith on numerous occasions in front of anyone within earshot: back in season one, when Anthony invited her to a concert, Robert criticized her for accepting before asking Anthony what type of music would be played; he criticized Edith at the dining table for writing for the paper and while in Scotland called her an amateur; he publicly snubbed Michael at Downton parties; and responded to Edith's idea of sponsoring the "Drewe child" by saying they'd probably find her to be a nuisance. And he went to Anthony behind Edith's back in order to get him to break off with her. (I don't excuse Anthony for what he did; I'm just referring here to things Robert has said/done that would make Edith feel she couldn't confide in him. And trying to sabotage the only romantic relationship she had had up to the point was a big one.)

 

Her parents, either by overlooking her (Cora) or alternating between overlooking her and noticing her only long enough to criticize her (Robert) have consistenly given her indication that she is not important. So I don't think it's plausible that she would confide in them.

 

So I don't think it's the case that she didn't confide in them, therefore they can't be more supportive, but rather that, their long history of not being supportive of her led her to believe that she can't confide in them.

 

#3 "Edith was wrong to expect that the family should mourn Michael like they mourned Matthew." I don't think she expected them to do anything of the sort: there's a huge difference between expecting the family to go into formal mourning and expecting them to be respectful of her grief by toning down things for a few days. I don't think she was out of line for being hurt at the fuss they made over Mary's hair, and their poor timing of planning a jolly outing. She wasn't asking them for even 5% of what was done after Matthew's death, and the consideration they gave her was less than what they gave to Sybil when she learned of the war death of a mere acquaintance. 

 

#4 "Even the nice/open-minded people disagreed with Edith." If this were a reality program, I might agree that there was more to the story if the nice people thought Edith was being unfair. But all these fictional characters are written by the same man. And one of the themes I've noticed since season one is that even people who are nice to everyone else often find Edith repulsive, and even when Edith does something very similar to what someone else has done, she ends up being ridiculed simply because Edith is suppposed to be the object of contempt. (As a recent example, of all the people who asked Violet about the prince, the only one that Violet snapped at was Edith.)

 

I'm not saying that Edith hasn't done some bad things in her day, but even when she's the doing the same thing as everyone else (or something that the viewers might consider pretty reasonable), she gets scorned by other characters in a way that is inconsistent with what else the show tells us. The show sometimes makes Edith wrong simply because she's Edith, which I find to be extremely poor and unbelievable writing.

 

Edited because I wrote "Isobel" when I meant "Violet."

Edited February 11, 2015 by jordanpond

[Andorra]

I think the main thing about the whole Marigold-worry is: Marigold is a fictional character. And I would  bet Julian Fellows' intention won't be to show her becoming a case for a shrink.

 

I would bet that we will never hear of the Drewes again and that Marigold will be just fine. No trauma, no problems. It's a soap and Marigold will be a happy little girl. BTW in my canon world the Drewes (after Margie eventually will forgive her husband) will get at least 3 other happy, little children to their already existing four and that's it.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Andorra

[ZoloftBlob]

Edith has not kidnapped her daughter. She never gave up any parental rights to that daughter in any way shape or form. Had the Drewes tried to keep her, they'd be the ones outside of the law

 

But... she doesn't want people to know that Marigold Drewe is really The Bastard Marigold Crawley born to Edith Crawley the Family Whore. Thats what this little dance has been about since the beginning - Edith getting to keep the child without bearing any real consequences.

[Haleth]

Yeah, in real life Marigold would be screaming for her mama with Edith trying frantically to calm her. A fictional baby? We'll never see any adjustment issues.

[Ohwell]

Marigold looked like she was sad and in a state of shock when she was in Edith's arms in the hotel room.  Edith might have been celebrating, but Marigold most definitely was not.  I would not at all be surprised if Edith begins to feel that caring for Marigold is too much--nannies notwithstanding--and turns the child over to yet another couple sometime soon. 

[ennui]

I think the main thing about the whole Marigold-worry is: Marigold is a fictional character. And I would  bet Julian Fellows' intention won't be to show her becoming a case for a shrink.

 

I would bet that we will never hear of the Drewes again and that Marigold will be just fine. No trauma, no problems. It's a soap and Marigold will be a happy little girl. BTW in my canon world the Drewes (after Margie eventually will forgive her husband) will get at least 3 other happy, little children to their already existing four and that's it.

Marigold will be fine until she's a young adult and runs off to Paris to be an artist's model. Rose will be her best auntie, cheering her on.

[lucindabelle]

Ohwell,  I wouldn't be surprised either, not because of the real life underpinnings, but because Edith is never allowed to have anything good come and stay.

 

I'd love to be wrong, though, because apart from everything else, it's so predictable.

[alias1]

Merneith, I agree with your assessment of sidesaddle riding. When Mary was seated, I thought we were about to witness disaster (remember Bonnie Blue and GWTW?). I was relieved when nothing happened. And then I thought about all the ways that women died young, from illness to childbirth to riding sidesaddle. 

Oh, I was so hoping there would be a Mary disaster.  I'd have her paralyzed so she couldn't talk.  Then I'd have Edith hurl insults at her for her disability and Mary couldn't respond.  Yes, I'm stone cold where Mary is concerned.  More realistically, I was wishing that Mabel Lane Fox had come in first.  But I know Fellowes would never have allowed that.

[lucindabelle]

I was totally expecting Bonnie Blue Butler too! The way there were lines about riding sidesaddle and the closeup of the hedge... it was classic misdirection.

 

But I'm SO glad it didn't happen because it would end up being YET MORE ATTENTION TO MARY. It would be sad as a character, and sadder for the show.

 

mary has become unreal lately. I mean, blaming Edith for starting the fire? Who does that?

[shipperx]

Seriously, a glass of wine is not getting snockered. And giving a child ice cream in the afternoon is not a sign of utter incompetence. There's judging Edith for her flaws and mistakes (of which there are multitudes) and there's much ado about the very trivial. Ice cream and 3oz of white wine is indicative of virtually nothing.

What kills me is how poorly all of this was written. I don't understand Fellowes.

For example: With Tom we never get all that much development we just get what's her name invited to dinner repeatedly by people other than Tom with her making Dad Crawley pissed off by making crass statements and Daisy campaigning for a love connection that Tom himself has never actually indicated. And yet, this is 'Tom's plot'. It may revolve around him, but he doesn't get to participate in it very much. It's written around not through and we have to make up our own story about what's going on in his head.

Similarly, it's difficult to miss how much is written around but not through with the Edith/Drewe situation. Neither side was actually shown very much. Yes, Edith showing up on the doorstep wanting to see Marigold is repetitive but it's been 20 seconds per episode. It's not explored.

People still harp on the Pamuk situation Re Mary even though it worked out just fine for her because the show made some effort to show the context of the time and what a scandal could cost her but such time isn't taken with Edith's plot. Her having an out of wedlock child would be a scandal that would weigh heavy. There's a reason why her aunt and her grandmother repeatedly tell her she must give up the child. To claim marigold in the face of society and in opposition to decisive authority figures like Violet and Rosamund isn't easy when all of society agrees with Violets and Rosamund's dictates. And yes the lifetime of family dynamics plays into as well. Sure Dad will overlook what Mary does but the rules for Mary and the rules for Edith are different and they always have been (and to ignore that is to ignore evidence from episode 1 straight through that these are not new family dynamics). There aspects of all these things that could be explored through the story but instead they write around instead of through.

Instead we get scenes of Mary talking about Edith to her ladies maid, we get Mary talking about Edith at a fashion show, we get the servants talking about someone coming to tell Edith that her boyfriend died (and everyone knows he courted her. She's had his power of attorney for a year. If someone in the family doesn't know they were closely involved that's either because they don't bother to know or are complete idiots.). We get Robert saying how she took it off screen. We don't get to see HER react. We don't get to see her pain. We get her 'interrupting' Mary's 'fun'. Like Tom, the story is written AROUND Edith more than about Edith.

And I honestly don't know how conclusions are being drawn about Mrs Drewe's devotion being superior because it's not like we're shown those scenes either. We only get the occasional griping about Edith. We don't see the relationship of Mr and Mrs Drewe. Nor do we see the relationship of Marigold and Mrs Drewe other than the bits of her stridently fending Edith off. Is she actually jealous of Mr Drewe and Edith? Why does she assume that Edith only sees Marigold as a plaything? There could have been a scene that actually gave her reason to think this. Or some line about Mrs Drewe's background giving us knowledge of her to know why she would jump to this default conclusion as opposed to thinking it an opportunity for a financially strapped family that one of the ladies of the manor would wish to help an orphan they had just taken in. But we get no scenes about this. We don't know how or why she assumes what she does or her relationship with any of her several children as well as this foundling. We don't see any of Mrs Drewe's life except for complaining about Edith in tiny repetitive snippets.

Again, were left filling in the blanks with our own imaginations. Because the only exploration was around the superficial edges in tiny repetitive scenes. We bring our own ideas, feelings, biases and preferences to it because we are told more about it through other characters than we ever actually see. So we know Mary's eye rolls about Edith or Robert's thoughts about it. But we really don't get to see much of the actual characters directly involved in the situation actually interacting in a variety of ways. We get the same pat scene over and over.

Poor writing and time management. But at least Mary had a fabulous dress on when she twirled her new haircut.

Honestly the scenery and the outfits are more reason to watch than the writing. I'd still like characters to discuss Robert thinking it's absurd that anyone would care about what his wife actually thinks, or Tom with his daughter, or actually seeing Rose and Atticus together, or Edith wondering what to do about Gregson's newspaper, or Rosamund discussing what a social disaster it would be for Edith to defy her and Violet's advice and maybe having a tiny bit of feeling she's being more of a parent to Edith than her brother is. Or Tom actually researching any ting about America before going there, maybe talking to Cora about it.

There are so many things they could be showing rather than tiny snippets of outlines scenes for all the characters who are not Mary and every difficult-to-tell-apart guy who is inexplicably drawn to Mary being bitchy to them. (Seriously why would someone drop Manel Lane for Mary? I'm not seeing it. And why on earth would Mabel then take him back after Mary dumped HIM?)

Edited February 10, 2015 by shipperx

[RedHawk]

I don't know that we've seen anything to indicate that Edith is prepared to or capable of successfully running a newspaper. How has it been running all of this time in Gregson's absence anyway?

I imagine that he has a very competent manager in place. He didn't expect Edith to take over for him while he was in Germany, did he? So there must have been someone else who he thought could run the business properly during that time. This fellow must still be in charge, perhaps the Editor who came to tell Edith the news? Usually publications have a business manager. Edith might now function as the chairwoman and have to make some decisions, but no, she's not been expected to run the day-to-day business these past two years. Perhaps she will take an interest and try to learn. So far she seems pretty bright and willing to learn, think of how she learned to drive a car, etc.

 

Mrs. Drewe's feelings? I care not a whit. Mr. Drewe also made some stupid decisions there. Edith did not force him to take Marigold. He could have talked to her anywhere along the way and said he felt he must tell his wife the truth.

 

Marigold? [shrug] Lots of kids have worse things happen in childhood. Wealthy children in those days were often raised by and very attached to Nanny, and as we've seen, only saw Mummy and Daddy an hour or so a day, so I guess all three Downton babies are destined to have attachment issues -- or not. It looks like Marigold is going to have a more stable and secure situation with Mommy Edith now, so she probably has as much chance of being a well-adjusted adult as most people of that era. 

 

I know from experience that sometimes the ONLY way you can find out who you are, stand on your own two feet, and be true to who YOU are is to completely walk away from your family.

 

 

Good for you, SailorGirl, for forging your own path! I like your insights into Edith's situation and "role" in the family. I also learned long ago that it was either do things on my own or not do them. The way I read the final scene was that Edith made her bold move and now wants to celebrate. As she said, where they are now is "not ideal, but at least we're together". She knows she has a long road ahead of her and after the rush of making her break, she's not at all sure that she can handle what will come next. I didn't see it as sad, just as emotionally true. She's happy, proud of herself, and yet scared because it's of course not over, not by a long shot.

 

I also like her parting words to Tom. He clearly heard what she was saying about "Don't let them flatten you." He seemed to be musing about that as she left. 

Edited February 10, 2015 by RedHawk

[Llywela]

Here's the thing. I know I've been extremely critical of Edith this season, but I'm invested in her story in a way that's rarely happened with Mary. The fact that Edith makes mistakes and has to live with the consequences and then makes more mistakes as a result – all that is what makes her interesting to me. Her struggles feel real, and so does the impact on the people around her. So I guess I just find it hard to see why anyone would seek to absolve her of all responsibility for her actions by saying 'oh well, the Drewes don't matter anyway' or 'Marigold is too young to be affected anyway' when that, to me, undermines the complexity of the story that's being told (however ham-fisted that storytelling has been), flattens it and robs it of depth. Yes, it's nice for Edith that she's reunited with her child, but happy ever after in this scenario would be boring (and unlikely) compared with that lonely image of Edith alone in her hotel room with Marigold, a trail of devastation in her wake, contemplating an uncertain future in a world that has little sympathy for unwed mothers of bastard children. This isn't a happy ending. It's just the start of another chapter.

 

Edith has made a lot of bad choices, and others have suffered as a result - including her daughter. I don't see what's wrong with pointing that out.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Llywela

[Kohola3]

Marigold looked like she was sad and in a state of shock when she was in Edith's arms in the hotel room.

 

She's a child actor who is too young to act sad or shocked.  She was just a kid being held by an adult she knows slightly and was looking around for her mother who was somewhere off camera but in her sight line which is how they film scenes with kids.

[ennui]

I have been scanning posts to see comments regarding Earl Grantham'S petulant and blaming behavior towards Cora. Where's the outrage? As a faithful and funding spouse, Cora needs to grow some. Time to visit Mama in Newport! Sucks to you Grantham, until Cora gets an apology You are on my)$:/ list.

Wait ... Robert comes home early from a business trip and finds another man in his wife's bedroom, and Cora needs to grow?

Edited February 10, 2015 by ennui

[shipperx]

Im fine with Robert being pissed about finding another man in his wife's bedroom. That makes perfect sense. What I wish they would not gloss over is that a couple of episodes ago Robert told Cora to her face that no one was interested in her opinions (not that he hasn't said the exact same thing to Edith as well). Donk, indeed.

[helenamonster]

I wonder if Marigold is potty trained since I didn't notice a nappy bag anywhere.

 

There was no nappy bag because Edith put less planning into anything to do with Marigold than I did in deciding what to have for breakfast this morning.

 

(Note -- I am intentionally leaving Marigold out of this post because bottom line is that she is young enough now that being pulled from the Drewes is not something that will be in her memories. My opinion here is 100% about Edith and her decision.)

 

Speaking as a single woman with no children, husband, or close family, I completely disagree -- this is a HUGE personal victory for Edith. She is celebrating her decision to finally take control of a situation she has felt has been out of her control since she left Marigold in Switzerland. She went along with the decisions because that is what a proper lady of the time was supposed to do, and the role she has always played in the family, even though she knew in her heart it wasn't right. Just because you don't have someone to have that celebratory glass of champagne with doesn't mean you shouldn't have it! Why deny allowing yourself to feel happy and be proud about something you've done simply because you are alone?

 

Why do you need someone else there to validate that happiness or make it a "real" celebration? She is toasting herself and her decision, and she doesn't need anyone else there to do that.

It drives me crazy when people think that its sad that I do things on my own because I have no one to do them with. Guess what -- I'm not missing out on anything I want to do in this life -- be it see a movie, travel, or drink champagne to celebrate a personal victory -- simply because I don't have someone to do it with. I have single girlfriends who won't do things because they are alone, then the complain that they missed out on whatever it was. Get over it, and just go do what you want to do. Screw what anyone else thinks. Meanwhile, I've travelled to Hong Kong, Thailand, London, Paris, and done some really cool stuff, all by little ol' self. And I have, on occasion, had a glass (or bottle!) of champagne to celebrate something in my life. All by myself, with no one else. And it wasn't sad, or depressing, or anything else negative. It was having a glass of champagne, being happy for myself, and not needing anyone else to validate it, or make it "real" or anything else. Being alone diminishes nothing. 

 

And that's what Edith has finally done for herself, for the very first time -- she said screw what anyone else thinks, I am going to do what is the right thing . . . for me (and by extension, Marigold) and no one else.

 

I see this as a potential character game-changer for Edith. Not that it will happen this way, but she's finally stood up for herself against an entire life of being dismissed, put down, told what to do, and basically being given no chance to shine or be her own person, always cast in the shadow of Saint Mary. Hopefully, there will be no going back to being Sad-Sack Edith.

 

Trust me, although I'm not a middle child, I know from experience that sometimes the ONLY way you can find out who you are, stand on your own two feet, and be true to who YOU are is to completely walk away from your family. You know who you are and no matter how hard you try to show that to your family, the role they think you belong in is the only way they will ever see you -- and they will do everything in their power to keep you there, especially when you start to divert from the role they've put you in, through no choice of your own. And they won't understand when you reach the point of feeling like you have to leave for your own sanity and survival. And even years later, they will still pigeonhole you in the role they cast you in, regardless of whether that is, or ever was, reality. While its a nice idea that families support each other and lift each other up, that is not reality. If you had that, congratulations. Not everyone does. I didn't, and Edith sure doesn't.

 

Edith is happier and more confident when she is away from the pigeonholed role she is put in by her family. When she made the decision to write for Gregson's paper, it was essentially against her family's opinion (mainly Donk's), but she was happier because of it. Every time she tries to offer a glimpse of herself, the things she does or wants to do to show who she is, the family puts her down, dismisses, or criticizes her for it. By doing what she's done, she's finally said, "enough of this bullshit."

 

Even if the family decides to "cut her off" in an attempt to bring her back (again, trying to maintain control over her and trap her in the role they've assigned to her, whether she belongs there/deserves it or not), she has Gregson's paper now, and has income of her own.

 

For a woman of that time period -- especially an unmarried woman -- what Edith has done is MAJOR. She has taken the first step to be an independent woman, free of her family, who is going to live life on her own terms, regardless of what people think. That is huge for anyone, but especially in that time period? Order a magnum of champagne, Lady Edith, and toast yourself with every glass!

 

She finally took a major step to take control of her own life -- maybe not in the best way, but when you've never done it before and are changing bad-for-you situations that were created by others, you don't always do things in the best way possible -- at that point you feel like you are doing whatever you have to in order to find a way to survive -- you do whatever it is you can think of finally, for once, do what is right for you and no one else. It is terrifying when you do it, and heady when you realize what you've actually done for yourself, for the first time ever. What ultimately matters is that she did it.

 

I say raise that glass of champagne to yourself and your decision Edith -- you deserve it, and earned it -- who cares if anyone else is there to celebrate with you -- this is your moment -- the first one that is truly yours alone. She doesn't NEED anyone else to toast with her -- it isn't about anyone else but her, for the first time in her life. Having someone else to toast with would, in my opinion, diminish the importance of what she's done.

 

I actually do agree with this post to a point. I'm an only child who was raised with two working parents, so I spent a lot of time alone. After school, summers (most of my friends would go away for the entirety)...and both my mom's and my dad's houses were located in areas where I could just walk to get ice cream or go shopping or something, and I did a lot of that by myself. Now, I'm at college, and I live by myself, and I absolutely love it. I don't need to do everything with other people. I love being able to see my friends when I want, but for the most part I can just do my own thing on my own schedule. I tend to celebrate my victories with Netflix, not champagne, but I don't feel the need to rally the troops every time I feel I've achieved something. I'm perfectly content to be by myself most of the time.

 

But I just feel like it's different with Edith. The conversation she had with Cora about being destined to be alone doesn't make me think she's accepted her loneliness, but simply that she's resigned to it. I have always seen Edith as stuck in this weird limbo between the lives that Mary and Sybil chose to lead. Imo, Edith always wanted what Mary was practically spoonfed from birth. She wanted to be a respectable lady of the county with a titled husband and a nice house and doing all the things that ladies do. She almost got the opportunity to have everything that Mary had been promised in S1 when she was close to being engaged to Anthony, with added bonus of Mary being left in the dust due to the Pamuk scandal. But the universe has always been pushing her more in Sybil's direction. She learned to drive, she helped out on the Drake's farm, she got a column, she had an affair, she was on the fringes of the London literary crowd...it seemed like fate was trying to tell her to embrace modern womanhood, but part of Edith would always want to go down the more traditional path, perhaps to prove herself just as good as Mary and make her parents happy. But no matter which life she ended up with, or if the one she did end up with was some combination of the two, I don't think she ever wanted to live it by herself. And we can argue she's not by herself, she's with Marigold. But Marigold is years away from being at an age where she can understand any of what's happening around her. Edith basically is leading on this new life by herself.

 

Furthermore, this whole situation won't end after one night of champagne and ice cream. What happens next? Assuming Edith stays in London, she can't expect to live in this little bubble where her family can't find her forever. Violet's already on the move, and I'm sure Rosamund, along with possibly Tom and Cora, isn't far behind. This may be the end of a nightmare, but it's also the beginning of a new one. The consequences for her poor decision-making abilities are far from over. She still has a lot to answer for.

 

And then the imagined scene of her celebrating juxtaposed with the heartbreaking one of Mrs. Drewe losing Marigold just turns my stomach, and really drives home Edith's selfishness. Yes, she and Marigold might be "as jolly as they like," but there's a woman back on Yew Tree Farm whose marriage and family will never be the same. There's a Swiss couple who just the year before had to go through the entire adoption process again. Edith has given no thought to the destruction she's caused in her pursuit of this very limited window of happiness.

 

I would bet that we will never hear of the Drewes again and that Marigold will be just fine. No trauma, no problems. It's a soap and Marigold will be a happy little girl. BTW in my canon world the Drewes (after Margie eventually will forgive her husband) will get at least 3 other happy, little children to their already existing four and that's it.

 

I can't get behind the idea that one, two, or even three more children can replace another one. Shit, our dog died almost 14 years ago and my dad still can't bring himself to by a new one.

 

And I don't expect any huge focus on Marigold's psyche either, because it's pretty much impossible to get a child actor under five to follow stage directions. But I think it's still something to consider when talking about it. If I'm supposed to to care about this story, then I have to care about the people involved, including Marigold.