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Agent Carter and the MCU: A Timely Thread

Kel Varnsen

By Kel Varnsen
in Agent Carter [V]

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

(edited)

So I thought I would make a thread for how Agent Carter fits into the MCU as a whole based on what we have seen in other movies/shows and even the comics), and how people would like things to fit in. I mentioned in the most recent episode thread how it would have been cool if the reporter that the Chief Mentioned had been Phil Sheldon, the main character of the Kurt Busiek/Alex Ross series Marvels. It is set in the right time period which would make it cool. He is only missing an eye patch.

 

Other than Marvels I don't know a lot about what was being put out in the golden age that would fit. It would be neat to see Peggy mention Dr Phineas Horton.  Horton was the creator of the original Human Torch (who was a robot), in Marvel Comics #1 in 1939. Now they probably can't use the name Human Torch (even though the original torch has nothing to do with Johnny Storm) but mentioning Horton as a robotics researcher could be interesting. Especially with age of ultron coming up (and the Vision being introduced. In the comics at one point it was believed that the VIsion was created from the Original Torch's robot body).

 

Oh yea and the reason for the thread name was because before there was Marvel Comics, the company during Peggy's time (that introduced the human torch and Captain America) was called Timely Comics.

 

You will also notice that this thread is spoiler tagged. As the mod mentioned below, this thread will contain untagged spoilers for past comic book storylines (that may be used in this show) as well as spoilers for previously released MCU movies and TV shows. Any actual spoilers for upcoming movies and shows will still be tagged.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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samhalliwell

samhalliwell

Building on the whole meta aspect of the setting, I think it would be supercool to have at least a passing reference to Namor, the Submariner (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/SubMariner), the third most iconic character of the Timely Comics era and the other besides Captain America to have a strong presence in today's Marvel Comics. I know, I know, he's very likely tied to Fox by being a Fantastic Four and later X-Men character, but a guy can speculate and dream :)

Raja

Raja

The problem becomes that except for Captain America and the Red Skull nobody believes that there are super powered people around until first the Hulk and Tony Stark building his armor to escape in Afghanistan and then the Battle Of New York put the existence of aliens to the forefront.

 

 Agents of SHIELD has shown that because of InHumans many of the period supers can exist. But by the time of The Winter Soldier most of SHIELD itself thought the superpowered didn't exist. Having the SSR investigate something and then cover it up as part of the conspiracy sort of seems the opposite

Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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(edited)

It would be nice if they could sort of fill in the blanks though a bit more between first avenger and iron man 1. I mean SHIELD investigated call kinds of crazy artifacts. Plus the Kree visited a Chinese Village and Puerto Rico. Plus some other alien knocked up Peter Quill's mom in the 70's I think, then different aliens abducted Peter years later. So there was a bunch of weird stuff going on that some people must have known about.

Plus the winter soldier operated on and off for all those years.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
samhalliwell

samhalliwell

(edited)

The problem becomes that except for Captain America and the Red Skull nobody believes that there are super powered people around until first the Hulk and Tony Stark building his armor to escape in Afghanistan and then the Battle Of New York put the existence of aliens to the forefront.

 

Well, now that apparently

Peggy's involved in the Ant-Man movie, it wouldn't be farfetched that she and/or a small group of people become aware of the existence of superpowered individuals and keep it hidden, even from SHIELD.

Typical Director Fury move, I think.

 

ETA: Now that I think about it, Raja's suggestion about signalling spoilers in the thread seems sensible.

Edited by samhalliwell
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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Since Agent Carter is sort of history for the MCU, maybe a spoiler tag is needed for the title?

I would just be curious to know what counts as a spoiler though? I mean I mentioned the original Torch which first showed up over 75 years ago. Lots of other really good marvel plots are decades old, and there is no guarantee they might be used.
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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For gender identity and other reasons at least on line it seems as if Agent Carter has drawn fans unfamiliar with the rest of the MCU. Talking about things we know may spoil the experience of those who inspired by this show starts looking into the rest of the MCU

So I am confused, now that this thread is spoiler tagged, are comic storylines considered spoilers that need to be tagged, or is say the plot of Iron Man 2?

bagert

bagert

(edited)

It would be nice if they could sort of fill in the blanks though a bit more between first avenger and iron man 1. I mean SHIELD investigated call kinds of crazy artifacts. Plus the Kree visited a Chinese Village and Puerto Rico. Plus some other alien knocked up Peter Quill's mom in the 70's I think, then different aliens abducted Peter years later. So there was a bunch of weird stuff going on that some people must have known about.

 

Plus the winter soldier operated on and off for all those years.

 

 

I've mentioned this in another thread - Peggy Carter and Howard Stark are supporting characters in the MCU-official "Ant-Man Prelude" two-issue miniseries starring Hank Pym and set towards the end of the Cold War - a preview consisting of a scene between Hank and Peggy is at

http://www.newsarama.com/23379-peggy-carter-meets-hank-pym-as-marvel-tells-some-official-cinematic-universe-history.html

Edited by bagert
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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(edited)

Now that the thread itself is spoiler-prefixed, you don't need to spoiler-tag things in your posts. You can edit your first post to mention that anything from the comics and the MCU could be spoiled in here, if you like, just so that people are aware!

 

Good to know about that. I assume that any actual spoilers for future episodes of this show would still have to get tagged?

The original Torch shows up as an exhibit in Captain America 1 -- just before Stark demonstrates the flying car.

I remember that. I would love to know what the deal is with the rights to the name human torch between Disney and Fox. I mean if marvel wanted to use the original torch who was a robot with the same powers as Johnny Storm, would that be allowed if they just called him the Torch?

 

Also I wonder if there will be any reference to the Winter Soldier in this series? At this time in the series he must be in Hydra custody right? I never read any of the Winter Soldier comics (as they came out a few years after I stopped reading comics), so the only thing I know about him is from the Marvel Ultimate Alliance game.  He has connections to the Russians in the comics too doesn't he? Also is Sebastian Stan famous enough where he can refuse to do TV (like RDJ or Scarlett Johanasson)? The only other thing I have seen him in is that show Kings, so I am wondering if maybe he isn't and maybe he might show up?

Edited by Kel Varnsen
Raja

Raja

 

Also I wonder if there will be any reference to the Winter Soldier in this series? At this time in the series he must be in Hydra custody right? I never read any of the Winter Soldier comics (as they came out a few years after I stopped reading comics), so the only thing I know about him is from the Marvel Ultimate Alliance game.  He has connections to the Russians in the comics too doesn't he? Also is Sebastian Stan famous enough where he can refuse to do TV (like RDJ or Scarlett Johanasson)? The only other thing I have seen him in is that show Kings, so I am wondering if maybe he isn't and maybe he might show up?

Probably not, Hydra was on the losing side of WWII. More likely he is being made by Leviathan thus the Soviet insignia on his equipment and one of those Hydra heads inside of the Soviet Union takes over after the end of the Cold War

Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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Probably not, Hydra was on the losing side of WWII. More likely he is being made by Leviathan thus the Soviet insignia on his equipment and one of those Hydra heads inside of the Soviet Union takes over after the end of the Cold War

That could be interesting if they looked into that. I mean Bucky falls off a train in Nazi occupied Europe. It could be cool if they could explore exactly who found him. I just assumed it must be Hydra, since in the Winter Soldier movie the computer Zola had all that information on him, and he was obviously working for them. Making it the Russians makes it more interesting, since Hydra seemed to have all kinds of crazy tech. I would love to see him show up in this show, since I would love to see the 1946 version of his robotic arm.

emma675

emma675

I've never read any of the comic books, I've only seen the movies, so the timeline of the Winter Soldier confuses the heck out of me. From the movie, I got the impression that Bucky had been frozen from about 1945 to sometime in the 1970's or 80's, but I could be totally off base on that one. I knew he was unfrozen before Captain America since Natasha had had contact with him before, but I never got the idea that he was running around wreaking havoc during Peggy's time. Am I wrong on that?

KirkB

KirkB

Sebastian Stan had several appearances on Once Upon A Time as the Mad Hatter, so he's not above doing TV.

 

As for Bucky, in the comics I think he was found by the Russians. Fixed up, used for assassinations and such then frozen until needed, so unlike Cap he got to see bits and pieces of various decades. He got sold several times as I recall. Winter Soldier made me think something similar happened to him in the MCU. I imagine he was found by the Russians, but once Hydra infiltrated SHIELD and various governments  he fell into their hands.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

As a show Agent Carter carries the handicap that we know that in the end she survives.

 

I don't see how this is a handicap for this type of show. I mean, does anybody seriously believe Barry Allen will die in The Flash? Or that Oliver Queen will die in Arrow (I know there was a fake-out, and nobody bought that anyway). 

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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As a show Agent Carter carries the handicap that we know that in the end she survives. As the hero the only thing at stake is the unconventional that we end with her losing to Leviathan. We need a sacrificial lamb that we care about more than a red shirt.

On the other hand we also know that I some respects she fails at her job miserably, because HYDRA infiltrates SHIELD all the way to the highest levels.
Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

My interpretation is that whoever found him fixed him up and then froze him. Then they thawed him as needed over the next 60 years or so anytime they needed him for a mission. No reason I suppose that one of those thaw sessions couldn't have been in 1946. 

 

Yes and no. Well, mostly yes.

 

The Russians found him after he was injured by the flying bomb he and Steve were trying to disarm (Bucky was literally disarmed) and healed his injuries, but found that he had apparently lost all memories of his previous life, except for his military training. They knew who he was, and what sort of value he might have, so kept him frozen until the mid-50s, not really knowing what to do with him. Then some Russian scientist wanted to try out his prototype robotic arm, and some other scientists wanted to try reprogramming his mind to turn him into something useful. It worked.

 

He was then active for the next three years, carrying out assassinations for the Soviet Union, until he started questioning orders and becoming unstable. That's when they decided to stick him back in stasis, only bringing him out for missions. They did that for the next fifteen years, until they sent him on a mission to the US in the 70s, where he went off the grid with no explanation, and they feared his memories might be returning. When they got him back a couple of weeks later, they decided never to send him on missions in the US again.

 

And in 1983 General Vasily Karpov, who had been an adversary to Cap and Bucky during the war, decided to get some sweet revenge on them by using the Winter Soldier as his own bodyguard. He was active for five years before Karpov recommended he be decommissioned, because again his mental conditioning was starting to fray.

 

Somewhere early in that, he met Natasha during her training and they fell in love. But her handlers disapproved of their relationship and forcibly separated them, by putting him back on ice.

 

And that's a brief history of the Winter Soldier, up until he was thawed out by Alexander Lukin, the Russian plutocrat who ended up being a puppet for the Red Skull. It's a bloody great story, written beautifully by Ed Brubaker. I'd recommend it to anyone who is interested in Bucky Barnes or Steve Rogers, and the presence of two very strong, very smart women in Natasha Romanoff and Sharon Carter certainly doesn't hurt either. I don't know how different the movie version will be, if we ever learn more about it. But sadly it seems like they might decide against him being active so soon after the war. It would be pretty great if he and Peggy could cross paths, but honestly I'd rather see Peggy meet a young Natasha, just to have it be canon that she's much older than she appears to be.

Edited by Danny Franks
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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)
honestly I'd rather see Peggy meet a young Natasha, just to have it be canon that she's much older than she appears to be.

 

Yeah I doubt Johansson will do TV. Sebastian Stan, possible, not not her, she's too big.

Still, I love Natasha so much, I'd sell my firstborn to see it. Or something.

Edited by FurryFury
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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(edited)

Yeah I doubt Johansson will do TV. Sebastian Stan, possible, not not her, she's too big.

Still, I love Natasha so much, I'd sell my firstborn to see it. Or something.

Considering that the whole idea of a shared movie/TV universe is something new, I wonder if we might start seeing stars of the movies show up in the TV shows? I mean contracts for movie stars already require them to do promotion right (things like going on Letterman or doing Press Junkets or going to Premieres and Film Festivals). So I wonder if we will start seeing things like Marvel saying "ok movie star, if you want 20 million to be in Avengers 4, on top of doing all the regular promo stuff, you also need to be available to do a day of shooting for a guest spot on Agents of Shield, or Daredevil". Considering what I have read about how hardass the Marvel/Disney execs are when it comes to negotiation, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

No, I mean like a ten year old Natasha.

 

Well in Cap 2 Zola said she was born in 1984 or something I think. Considering how deep HYDRA was everywhere, it would be interesting to me how they would explain that he had the wrong information.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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Llywela

Llywela

Well in Cap 2 Zola said she was born in 1984 or something I think. Considering how deep HYDRA was everywhere, it would be interesting to me how they would explain that he had the wrong information.

Plus, she's been twitting Steve about his age an awful lot - which is not to say that she might not do that anyway, as part of her cover, if she were trying to hide being a similar age, but it doesn't seem likely at this point.

Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

(edited)

On the other hand we also know that I some respects she fails at her job miserably, because HYDRA infiltrates SHIELD all the way to the highest levels.

My impression from The Winter Soldier was that HYDRA didn't really start to get traction in the organization until after Zola was uploaded into the computer in the 70s. Until shown otherwise, I choose to believe that Peggy was happily retired by that point and SHIELD was in the hands of less discerning directors.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

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My impression from The Winter Soldier was that HYDRA didn't really start to get traction in the organization until after Zola was uploaded into the computer in the 70s. Until shown otherwise, I choose to believe that Peggy was happily retired by that point and SHIELD was in the hands of less discerning directors.

I took Computer Zola's big speech to mean that pretty much as soon as the Nazi/HYDRA scientists were brought to the US as part of Operation Paperclip, they started infiltrating SHIELD and other areas of government. Sure it might have taken them awhile to truly take over, but either way if this show does future seasons, I am curious to see how Peggy didn't pick up on the fact that there were a bunch of HYDRA moles in her ranks, when she was running SHIELD.

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MandolinMagi

MandolinMagi

I personally like the idea that Natasha really was born in 1984, because she's actually Jordan Two Delta from the 2005 movie The Island. The original was born in the 1950s or 60s, and the Soviets commissioned Jordan Two Delta as a backup/spare parts clone. Come 2005, Natasha is working for SHIELD and want to retire, so they break Jordan out and she becomes the Black Widow.  Two Delta's original, Sarah Jordan, never shows up in the movie and is a model, similar to Natasha's cover in Iron Man 2. Sure, she  supposedly had a son, but SHIELD should be able to get a child actor for a 30-second videophone call.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)

 

The Island as an MCU prequel would also explain the Klonieg brothers-Fury commissioned the creation of agents loyal only to him, and had them all be identical to screw with everyone else.   

MandolinMagi

MandolinMagi

(edited)

I do not want anything with Michael Bay's grubby little blasting powder-covered fingerprints on it coming near the MCU.

Eh, he didn't start bad. The Rock was good, and I liked The Island and I Am Number Four. Even the first Transformers was good

 

It's just that the Transformers movies got bad fast, and Sam was utterly useless despite being nominally the main character.

And now he's producing garbage like the Purge movies and ​Ouija.  I'm just praying that his rumored Ghost Recon film never happens

Edited by MandolinMagi
Traveller519

Traveller519

Thinking about how they could get more Universe Building out of future AC seasons is interesting.

 

Presumably at sometime (probably following the events of Age of Ultron) they're going to have to rebuild SHIELD. Instead of detailing that process, it would be interesting to watch the first creation of it. Not to mention future years like brining in Fury, the rise of the World Security Council and what not.

 

Marvel Studios seems committed to keeping things tied in, which is what brought them success in the comic books. So if there are future seasons of AC planned, they'll need to tie in in some fashion.

Guest

Guest

So as far as MCU goes I watched selectively in the beginning.  I only ended up watching Captain America because of Agent Carter.  So keep in mind that this opinion comes from watching half of Carter, Winter Soldier, the other half of Carter, and then First Avenger.

 

After finally seeing the first Captain America movie this weekend, I think based on the movies alone that the relationship between Peggy and Steve is blown way out of proportion.

 

Agent Carter set me up to think that they were on the verge of marriage or something and then he died.  My reaction to First Avenger was basically 'that was it?' and 'holy crap, Captain America is still a virgin.'  The chemistry was great and everything but I never got from any of the following movies or this show that they were grieving the loss of possibilities rather than an actual romantic relationship.

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