Kel Varnsen February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 (edited) So I thought I would make a thread for how Agent Carter fits into the MCU as a whole based on what we have seen in other movies/shows and even the comics), and how people would like things to fit in. I mentioned in the most recent episode thread how it would have been cool if the reporter that the Chief Mentioned had been Phil Sheldon, the main character of the Kurt Busiek/Alex Ross series Marvels. It is set in the right time period which would make it cool. He is only missing an eye patch. Other than Marvels I don't know a lot about what was being put out in the golden age that would fit. It would be neat to see Peggy mention Dr Phineas Horton. Horton was the creator of the original Human Torch (who was a robot), in Marvel Comics #1 in 1939. Now they probably can't use the name Human Torch (even though the original torch has nothing to do with Johnny Storm) but mentioning Horton as a robotics researcher could be interesting. Especially with age of ultron coming up (and the Vision being introduced. In the comics at one point it was believed that the VIsion was created from the Original Torch's robot body). Oh yea and the reason for the thread name was because before there was Marvel Comics, the company during Peggy's time (that introduced the human torch and Captain America) was called Timely Comics. You will also notice that this thread is spoiler tagged. As the mod mentioned below, this thread will contain untagged spoilers for past comic book storylines (that may be used in this show) as well as spoilers for previously released MCU movies and TV shows. Any actual spoilers for upcoming movies and shows will still be tagged. Edited February 9, 2015 by Kel Varnsen 1 Link to comment
samhalliwell February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Building on the whole meta aspect of the setting, I think it would be supercool to have at least a passing reference to Namor, the Submariner (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/SubMariner), the third most iconic character of the Timely Comics era and the other besides Captain America to have a strong presence in today's Marvel Comics. I know, I know, he's very likely tied to Fox by being a Fantastic Four and later X-Men character, but a guy can speculate and dream :) Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 7, 2015 Author Share February 7, 2015 I wonder how vague they could get away with being? I mean if there was just passing mention of how a different SSR division was investigating an underwater civilization would that be allowed? Link to comment
Raja February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 The problem becomes that except for Captain America and the Red Skull nobody believes that there are super powered people around until first the Hulk and Tony Stark building his armor to escape in Afghanistan and then the Battle Of New York put the existence of aliens to the forefront. Agents of SHIELD has shown that because of InHumans many of the period supers can exist. But by the time of The Winter Soldier most of SHIELD itself thought the superpowered didn't exist. Having the SSR investigate something and then cover it up as part of the conspiracy sort of seems the opposite Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 7, 2015 Author Share February 7, 2015 (edited) It would be nice if they could sort of fill in the blanks though a bit more between first avenger and iron man 1. I mean SHIELD investigated call kinds of crazy artifacts. Plus the Kree visited a Chinese Village and Puerto Rico. Plus some other alien knocked up Peter Quill's mom in the 70's I think, then different aliens abducted Peter years later. So there was a bunch of weird stuff going on that some people must have known about. Plus the winter soldier operated on and off for all those years. Edited February 7, 2015 by Kel Varnsen Link to comment
Raja February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Since Agent Carter is sort of history for the MCU, maybe a spoiler tag is needed for the title? Link to comment
samhalliwell February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 (edited) The problem becomes that except for Captain America and the Red Skull nobody believes that there are super powered people around until first the Hulk and Tony Stark building his armor to escape in Afghanistan and then the Battle Of New York put the existence of aliens to the forefront. Well, now that apparently Peggy's involved in the Ant-Man movie, it wouldn't be farfetched that she and/or a small group of people become aware of the existence of superpowered individuals and keep it hidden, even from SHIELD. Typical Director Fury move, I think. ETA: Now that I think about it, Raja's suggestion about signalling spoilers in the thread seems sensible. Edited February 7, 2015 by samhalliwell Link to comment
Cranberry February 7, 2015 Share February 7, 2015 Done! Great thread; thanks for starting it. I've seen all of the MCU films and shorts and TV shows, but I'm not a comics reader and I always appreciate it when people post more information about the history of all of these characters. Link to comment
tarotx February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 (edited) I hope this us an active thread. I love discussions like this one can be :) Edited February 8, 2015 by tarotx Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 8, 2015 Author Share February 8, 2015 Since Agent Carter is sort of history for the MCU, maybe a spoiler tag is needed for the title?I would just be curious to know what counts as a spoiler though? I mean I mentioned the original Torch which first showed up over 75 years ago. Lots of other really good marvel plots are decades old, and there is no guarantee they might be used. Link to comment
Raja February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 For gender identity and other reasons at least on line it seems as if Agent Carter has drawn fans unfamiliar with the rest of the MCU. Talking about things we know may spoil the experience of those who inspired by this show starts looking into the rest of the MCU Link to comment
morakot February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 The original Torch shows up as an exhibit in Captain America 1 -- just before Stark demonstrates the flying car. Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 8, 2015 Author Share February 8, 2015 For gender identity and other reasons at least on line it seems as if Agent Carter has drawn fans unfamiliar with the rest of the MCU. Talking about things we know may spoil the experience of those who inspired by this show starts looking into the rest of the MCU So I am confused, now that this thread is spoiler tagged, are comic storylines considered spoilers that need to be tagged, or is say the plot of Iron Man 2? Link to comment
Cranberry February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 Now that the thread itself is spoiler-prefixed, you don't need to spoiler-tag things in your posts. You can edit your first post to mention that anything from the comics and the MCU could be spoiled in here, if you like, just so that people are aware! Link to comment
bagert February 8, 2015 Share February 8, 2015 (edited) It would be nice if they could sort of fill in the blanks though a bit more between first avenger and iron man 1. I mean SHIELD investigated call kinds of crazy artifacts. Plus the Kree visited a Chinese Village and Puerto Rico. Plus some other alien knocked up Peter Quill's mom in the 70's I think, then different aliens abducted Peter years later. So there was a bunch of weird stuff going on that some people must have known about. Plus the winter soldier operated on and off for all those years. I've mentioned this in another thread - Peggy Carter and Howard Stark are supporting characters in the MCU-official "Ant-Man Prelude" two-issue miniseries starring Hank Pym and set towards the end of the Cold War - a preview consisting of a scene between Hank and Peggy is at http://www.newsarama.com/23379-peggy-carter-meets-hank-pym-as-marvel-tells-some-official-cinematic-universe-history.html Edited February 8, 2015 by bagert Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 9, 2015 Author Share February 9, 2015 (edited) Now that the thread itself is spoiler-prefixed, you don't need to spoiler-tag things in your posts. You can edit your first post to mention that anything from the comics and the MCU could be spoiled in here, if you like, just so that people are aware! Good to know about that. I assume that any actual spoilers for future episodes of this show would still have to get tagged? The original Torch shows up as an exhibit in Captain America 1 -- just before Stark demonstrates the flying car. I remember that. I would love to know what the deal is with the rights to the name human torch between Disney and Fox. I mean if marvel wanted to use the original torch who was a robot with the same powers as Johnny Storm, would that be allowed if they just called him the Torch? Also I wonder if there will be any reference to the Winter Soldier in this series? At this time in the series he must be in Hydra custody right? I never read any of the Winter Soldier comics (as they came out a few years after I stopped reading comics), so the only thing I know about him is from the Marvel Ultimate Alliance game. He has connections to the Russians in the comics too doesn't he? Also is Sebastian Stan famous enough where he can refuse to do TV (like RDJ or Scarlett Johanasson)? The only other thing I have seen him in is that show Kings, so I am wondering if maybe he isn't and maybe he might show up? Edited February 9, 2015 by Kel Varnsen Link to comment
Cranberry February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Good to know about that. I assume that any actual spoilers for future episodes of this show would still have to get tagged? Yes, I meant to mention that! Spoilers for everything previously released are fine; spoilers for upcoming episodes/movies/whatever should be tagged. Link to comment
Raja February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Also I wonder if there will be any reference to the Winter Soldier in this series? At this time in the series he must be in Hydra custody right? I never read any of the Winter Soldier comics (as they came out a few years after I stopped reading comics), so the only thing I know about him is from the Marvel Ultimate Alliance game. He has connections to the Russians in the comics too doesn't he? Also is Sebastian Stan famous enough where he can refuse to do TV (like RDJ or Scarlett Johanasson)? The only other thing I have seen him in is that show Kings, so I am wondering if maybe he isn't and maybe he might show up? Probably not, Hydra was on the losing side of WWII. More likely he is being made by Leviathan thus the Soviet insignia on his equipment and one of those Hydra heads inside of the Soviet Union takes over after the end of the Cold War Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 9, 2015 Author Share February 9, 2015 Probably not, Hydra was on the losing side of WWII. More likely he is being made by Leviathan thus the Soviet insignia on his equipment and one of those Hydra heads inside of the Soviet Union takes over after the end of the Cold War That could be interesting if they looked into that. I mean Bucky falls off a train in Nazi occupied Europe. It could be cool if they could explore exactly who found him. I just assumed it must be Hydra, since in the Winter Soldier movie the computer Zola had all that information on him, and he was obviously working for them. Making it the Russians makes it more interesting, since Hydra seemed to have all kinds of crazy tech. I would love to see him show up in this show, since I would love to see the 1946 version of his robotic arm. Link to comment
emma675 February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 I've never read any of the comic books, I've only seen the movies, so the timeline of the Winter Soldier confuses the heck out of me. From the movie, I got the impression that Bucky had been frozen from about 1945 to sometime in the 1970's or 80's, but I could be totally off base on that one. I knew he was unfrozen before Captain America since Natasha had had contact with him before, but I never got the idea that he was running around wreaking havoc during Peggy's time. Am I wrong on that? Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 9, 2015 Author Share February 9, 2015 (edited) My interpretation is that whoever found him fixed him up and then froze him. Then they thawed him as needed over the next 60 years or so anytime they needed him for a mission. No reason I suppose that one of those thaw sessions couldn't have been in 1946. Edited February 9, 2015 by Kel Varnsen 1 Link to comment
KirkB February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Sebastian Stan had several appearances on Once Upon A Time as the Mad Hatter, so he's not above doing TV. As for Bucky, in the comics I think he was found by the Russians. Fixed up, used for assassinations and such then frozen until needed, so unlike Cap he got to see bits and pieces of various decades. He got sold several times as I recall. Winter Soldier made me think something similar happened to him in the MCU. I imagine he was found by the Russians, but once Hydra infiltrated SHIELD and various governments he fell into their hands. 1 Link to comment
emma675 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Thanks for the background. It is kind of incredibly sad for both Bucky and Steve. They sacrificed so much and then lost so much, each in their own way. Link to comment
Raja February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 As a show Agent Carter carries the handicap that we know that in the end she survives. As the hero the only thing at stake is the unconventional that we end with her losing to Leviathan. We need a sacrificial lamb that we care about more than a red shirt. Link to comment
FurryFury February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 As a show Agent Carter carries the handicap that we know that in the end she survives. I don't see how this is a handicap for this type of show. I mean, does anybody seriously believe Barry Allen will die in The Flash? Or that Oliver Queen will die in Arrow (I know there was a fake-out, and nobody bought that anyway). 2 Link to comment
Cranberry February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Yeah, it's very rare for the main character to die (permanently, anyway) on any type of show. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of this show at all. Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 12, 2015 Author Share February 12, 2015 As a show Agent Carter carries the handicap that we know that in the end she survives. As the hero the only thing at stake is the unconventional that we end with her losing to Leviathan. We need a sacrificial lamb that we care about more than a red shirt.On the other hand we also know that I some respects she fails at her job miserably, because HYDRA infiltrates SHIELD all the way to the highest levels. Link to comment
Sakura12 February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 As a show Agent Carter carries the handicap that we know that in the end she survives. Don't most shows carry the handicap of the main character surviving until the end? 1 Link to comment
Danny Franks February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) My interpretation is that whoever found him fixed him up and then froze him. Then they thawed him as needed over the next 60 years or so anytime they needed him for a mission. No reason I suppose that one of those thaw sessions couldn't have been in 1946. Yes and no. Well, mostly yes. The Russians found him after he was injured by the flying bomb he and Steve were trying to disarm (Bucky was literally disarmed) and healed his injuries, but found that he had apparently lost all memories of his previous life, except for his military training. They knew who he was, and what sort of value he might have, so kept him frozen until the mid-50s, not really knowing what to do with him. Then some Russian scientist wanted to try out his prototype robotic arm, and some other scientists wanted to try reprogramming his mind to turn him into something useful. It worked. He was then active for the next three years, carrying out assassinations for the Soviet Union, until he started questioning orders and becoming unstable. That's when they decided to stick him back in stasis, only bringing him out for missions. They did that for the next fifteen years, until they sent him on a mission to the US in the 70s, where he went off the grid with no explanation, and they feared his memories might be returning. When they got him back a couple of weeks later, they decided never to send him on missions in the US again. And in 1983 General Vasily Karpov, who had been an adversary to Cap and Bucky during the war, decided to get some sweet revenge on them by using the Winter Soldier as his own bodyguard. He was active for five years before Karpov recommended he be decommissioned, because again his mental conditioning was starting to fray. Somewhere early in that, he met Natasha during her training and they fell in love. But her handlers disapproved of their relationship and forcibly separated them, by putting him back on ice. And that's a brief history of the Winter Soldier, up until he was thawed out by Alexander Lukin, the Russian plutocrat who ended up being a puppet for the Red Skull. It's a bloody great story, written beautifully by Ed Brubaker. I'd recommend it to anyone who is interested in Bucky Barnes or Steve Rogers, and the presence of two very strong, very smart women in Natasha Romanoff and Sharon Carter certainly doesn't hurt either. I don't know how different the movie version will be, if we ever learn more about it. But sadly it seems like they might decide against him being active so soon after the war. It would be pretty great if he and Peggy could cross paths, but honestly I'd rather see Peggy meet a young Natasha, just to have it be canon that she's much older than she appears to be. Edited February 12, 2015 by Danny Franks 1 Link to comment
Raja February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Your mixing the comics canon with the MCU where Bucky fell off of a train bridge to his presumed death on a Howling Commandos mission in The First Avenger Link to comment
Danny Franks February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Your mixing the comics canon with the MCU where Bucky fell off of a train bridge to his presumed death on a Howling Commandos mission in The First Avenger I'm not. I'm explicitly talking about comics canon, and then went on to say that I don't know how different the MCU version will be. Link to comment
FurryFury February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) honestly I'd rather see Peggy meet a young Natasha, just to have it be canon that she's much older than she appears to be. Yeah I doubt Johansson will do TV. Sebastian Stan, possible, not not her, she's too big. Still, I love Natasha so much, I'd sell my firstborn to see it. Or something. Edited February 12, 2015 by FurryFury Link to comment
Danny Franks February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Yeah I doubt Johansson will do TV. Sebastian Stan, possible, not not her, she's too big. Still, I love Natasha so much, I'd sell my firstborn to see it. Or something. No, I mean like a ten year old Natasha. Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 13, 2015 Author Share February 13, 2015 (edited) Yeah I doubt Johansson will do TV. Sebastian Stan, possible, not not her, she's too big. Still, I love Natasha so much, I'd sell my firstborn to see it. Or something. Considering that the whole idea of a shared movie/TV universe is something new, I wonder if we might start seeing stars of the movies show up in the TV shows? I mean contracts for movie stars already require them to do promotion right (things like going on Letterman or doing Press Junkets or going to Premieres and Film Festivals). So I wonder if we will start seeing things like Marvel saying "ok movie star, if you want 20 million to be in Avengers 4, on top of doing all the regular promo stuff, you also need to be available to do a day of shooting for a guest spot on Agents of Shield, or Daredevil". Considering what I have read about how hardass the Marvel/Disney execs are when it comes to negotiation, it wouldn't surprise me. No, I mean like a ten year old Natasha. Well in Cap 2 Zola said she was born in 1984 or something I think. Considering how deep HYDRA was everywhere, it would be interesting to me how they would explain that he had the wrong information. Edited February 13, 2015 by Kel Varnsen 1 Link to comment
Llywela February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Well in Cap 2 Zola said she was born in 1984 or something I think. Considering how deep HYDRA was everywhere, it would be interesting to me how they would explain that he had the wrong information. Plus, she's been twitting Steve about his age an awful lot - which is not to say that she might not do that anyway, as part of her cover, if she were trying to hide being a similar age, but it doesn't seem likely at this point. Link to comment
Bruinsfan February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) On the other hand we also know that I some respects she fails at her job miserably, because HYDRA infiltrates SHIELD all the way to the highest levels. My impression from The Winter Soldier was that HYDRA didn't really start to get traction in the organization until after Zola was uploaded into the computer in the 70s. Until shown otherwise, I choose to believe that Peggy was happily retired by that point and SHIELD was in the hands of less discerning directors. Edited February 13, 2015 by Bruinsfan 1 Link to comment
Kel Varnsen February 13, 2015 Author Share February 13, 2015 My impression from The Winter Soldier was that HYDRA didn't really start to get traction in the organization until after Zola was uploaded into the computer in the 70s. Until shown otherwise, I choose to believe that Peggy was happily retired by that point and SHIELD was in the hands of less discerning directors. I took Computer Zola's big speech to mean that pretty much as soon as the Nazi/HYDRA scientists were brought to the US as part of Operation Paperclip, they started infiltrating SHIELD and other areas of government. Sure it might have taken them awhile to truly take over, but either way if this show does future seasons, I am curious to see how Peggy didn't pick up on the fact that there were a bunch of HYDRA moles in her ranks, when she was running SHIELD. 1 Link to comment
Sakura12 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Plus, she's been twitting Steve about his age an awful lot - which is not to say that she might not do that anyway, as part of her cover, if she were trying to hide being a similar age, but it doesn't seem likely at this point. She also could've had her mind wiped, so she doesn't know that she's that old. Link to comment
MandolinMagi February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I personally like the idea that Natasha really was born in 1984, because she's actually Jordan Two Delta from the 2005 movie The Island. The original was born in the 1950s or 60s, and the Soviets commissioned Jordan Two Delta as a backup/spare parts clone. Come 2005, Natasha is working for SHIELD and want to retire, so they break Jordan out and she becomes the Black Widow. Two Delta's original, Sarah Jordan, never shows up in the movie and is a model, similar to Natasha's cover in Iron Man 2. Sure, she supposedly had a son, but SHIELD should be able to get a child actor for a 30-second videophone call. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film) The Island as an MCU prequel would also explain the Klonieg brothers-Fury commissioned the creation of agents loyal only to him, and had them all be identical to screw with everyone else. Link to comment
Bruinsfan February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I do not want anything with Michael Bay's grubby little blasting powder-covered fingerprints on it coming near the MCU. 1 Link to comment
MandolinMagi February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I do not want anything with Michael Bay's grubby little blasting powder-covered fingerprints on it coming near the MCU. Eh, he didn't start bad. The Rock was good, and I liked The Island and I Am Number Four. Even the first Transformers was good It's just that the Transformers movies got bad fast, and Sam was utterly useless despite being nominally the main character. And now he's producing garbage like the Purge movies and Ouija. I'm just praying that his rumored Ghost Recon film never happens Edited February 17, 2015 by MandolinMagi Link to comment
Raja February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 So we know SHIELD was experimenting with a Kree serum to save Avengers before Stark escaped from the Ten Rings. My call is Chief Dooley calling for Agent Carter to avenge him is the beginning of the Avengers Initiative. Link to comment
Bruinsfan February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Eh, he didn't start bad. The Rock was good, and I liked The Island and I Am Number Four. Even the first Transformers was good We'll have to agree to disagree on those points. I've never found any of his productions or directorial efforts worth the time spent watching them. Link to comment
Traveller519 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Thinking about how they could get more Universe Building out of future AC seasons is interesting. Presumably at sometime (probably following the events of Age of Ultron) they're going to have to rebuild SHIELD. Instead of detailing that process, it would be interesting to watch the first creation of it. Not to mention future years like brining in Fury, the rise of the World Security Council and what not. Marvel Studios seems committed to keeping things tied in, which is what brought them success in the comic books. So if there are future seasons of AC planned, they'll need to tie in in some fashion. Link to comment
Leia1979 February 25, 2015 Share February 25, 2015 It's not surprising, but it's now official that Peggy will appear in Age of Ultron. Yay! http://variety.com/2015/film/news/avengers-age-of-ultron-poster-vision-peggy-carter-falcon-1201440803/ 1 Link to comment
ParadoxLost April 28, 2015 Share April 28, 2015 So as far as MCU goes I watched selectively in the beginning. I only ended up watching Captain America because of Agent Carter. So keep in mind that this opinion comes from watching half of Carter, Winter Soldier, the other half of Carter, and then First Avenger. After finally seeing the first Captain America movie this weekend, I think based on the movies alone that the relationship between Peggy and Steve is blown way out of proportion. Agent Carter set me up to think that they were on the verge of marriage or something and then he died. My reaction to First Avenger was basically 'that was it?' and 'holy crap, Captain America is still a virgin.' The chemistry was great and everything but I never got from any of the following movies or this show that they were grieving the loss of possibilities rather than an actual romantic relationship. Link to comment
VCRTracking May 17, 2015 Share May 17, 2015 (edited) Well from spoiler pics of Captain America : Civil War filming this past week, Peggy is in the movie but not in the way we would like :-( They were filming her funeral and Steve is one of the pallbearers. Edited May 17, 2015 by VCRTracking 1 Link to comment
Lebanna May 19, 2015 Share May 19, 2015 Well, he'd never be able to move on with someone else, while his 'best girl' was still in the world. It makes sense. 2 Link to comment
tarotx May 21, 2015 Share May 21, 2015 Aww but it is true. There is a tear in my eye. Well, he'd never be able to move on with someone else, while his 'best girl' was still in the world. It makes sense. 1 Link to comment
anna0852 May 23, 2015 Share May 23, 2015 Well, he'd never be able to move on with someone else, while his 'best girl' was still in the world. It makes sense. Not to mention her age meant this had to happen sooner or later. She's lived a good, long and fulfilling life. Link to comment
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