S06.E05: The Hurt Locker, Part 2

[SadieT]

Thinking about it I can say why them using lines Finn said as meta from hypnotized Sam bothered me so.  Well one line - "we are endgame."  I know that line was criticized in many places (which is why the writers decided to go meta on it) but within the structure of Glee Rachel was charmed by it and indicated she believed it by picking that last petal.  It was also said the last night she ever spent with Finn.  She never saw him again after early the next morning when she kissed him goodbye while he was sleeping.  I would think hearing Sam or anyone say that to her again would cause some sort of reaction beyond silly antics given that the guy who said it to her died not so long after that.  Yet silly antics is what we got.  

 

Is that what Sam said, endgame? I thought he said engaged. Maybe it's just me but it seems like Chord has been mumbling a lot this season, I missed a couple of his lines last episode, too. I can't make out half of what he says, especially when they have him speak quickly. 

 

At this point I wouldn't even be so sure the writers are aware they had Sam repeat two of Finn's lines to Rachel (endgame and future husband/wife). That was two whole seasons ago that Finn said those things, the writers can't even keep track of what they said two episodes ago. 

 

Also the lead Vocal Adrenaline guy looks more like Will's peer than a student. I know he's the dude from The Wanted so they probably didn't care but he looks way too old to be in high school, even more so than Becca who I think is probably older. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by SadieT

[camussie]

Given that the writers seem intent using meta at every turn this season and digging deep into glee's past to do so I think it was very deliberate to use those lines.  They got a two-fer out of it - a "see we are cool because we agree with the most vocal fans those lines were terrible" and mocking Finn/Rachel fans because Rachel didn't react at all to the endgame line when that is one line that should lead to some sort of reaction from her.  

Edited January 31, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

I get the meta part of the future wife line was stupid but the idea they were mocking the fans becasue Rachel didn't  react seems a bit of a stretch to me.   She seemed a bit taken a back by his whole behavior.   Plus why would she even connect the two things considering Sam couldn't have known about  either of those things.   Rachel probably doesn't even know Finn called her his future wife.

[camussie]

I agree she wouldn't know about the future wife line (which is why I specifically said it was only the endgame line that bothered me) but I think she would react to someone else saying they were endgame.  Maybe if Finn had said it any other time than the last night they ever spent together; however, he did, so I would think those would be words that would haunt her the rest of her life.  It is unfathomable to me that she wouldn't be completely taken aback by hearing those words come out of Sam or any other man's mouth.  

 

Beyond that there were lots of Finn/Rachel fans who really loved that whole loves me/loves me not conversation especially because it was their last scene together with dialog.  They had a phone call after that but they weren't in the same room .  Even as much as I loathed the "future wife" scene I was neutral on the endgame scene given how flirty it was.  

 

Given that I would say RM and team trivializing it through this whole Sam/Rachel thing and then not having Rachel react at all was meant to mock/tweak fans.  Why would Finn/Rachel fans be spared when Kurt/Blaine fans and Brittany/Santana fans aren't?

Edited January 31, 2015 by camussie

[SadieT]

 Why would Finn/Rachel fans be spared when Kurt/Blaine fans and Brittany/Santana fans aren't?

 

Because half of Finchel is dead? Mocking the relationship now seems overly insensitive, even for this show. I think the endgame line was more about making a mockery of the Glee fandom in general because endgame is a fandom word and we're getting a lot of that crap this season. I mean, I agree with you that it was a stupid and tasteless line, I just don't know if I believe it was an intentional dig at Finn/Rachel because I honestly don't think the writers pay attention to small details like particular words used during a conversation. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by SadieT

[camussie]

I think they would know exactly the last conversation Finn and Rachel ever had together especially since in retrospect it is so bittersweet.  Also they coupled it with another phrase (my future wife) that many a viewer groaned at at the time.  To me that makes it unlikely it was mere coincidence or a general dig at all fanbases.    

 

As for it being overly insensitive last week they had Sue mocking Finn/will with a Sandusky reference.  If they cross that line I doubt a little mocking of Finn/Rachel fans, by trivializing their very last dialog scene together, is too far for them,  

Edited January 31, 2015 by camussie

[wayne67]

I found the Sue Saw Doll on a tricycle hilarious.

 

Klaine had zero chemistry in that elevator as far as I was concerned. No heat at all.

 

I found the addition of Spencer and Kitty ridiculous. Spretzling those characters to service the plot as per usual.

 

The songs were mediocre.

 

Winning a pointless invitational by trespassing and stealing songs they know emotionally effect the only judge of the competition was typical.

 

I cheered when that Senior Vocal Adrenaline guy shut down Will and his nonsensical crap about winning not being important.

Edited January 31, 2015 by wayne67

[vb68]

 I don't know why I'm always surprised that this show gets more bizarre and further off the rails each week.

 

Was the mini-me of Sue in the elevator her way of acting out that she didn't get the part of the Joker in one of the Batman movies  (which of course would have tied in to her flashbacks) or did she maybe mate with a Joker, and that's what popped out?  I'm (mostly) kidding, but it is Glee.  You can never really know.  I just know it kinda gave me the creeps.  I don't know how they didn't stomp it.

 

Speaking of Klaine, neither one ran right to a lawyer. Heh.  That's really stretching it.   Of course it would probably be Quinn, who took a law class at Yale and now can go to court and everything.

 

Sigh.

 

The thought of Kurt dating Harry Hamlin also really creeps me out.  Maybe not as much as Blaine and Dave, but still.

 

I did feel for Kitty when she said all the others abandoned her.  No idea how true that is, but I thought Becca sold the line pretty well.  And I can understand how she might feel that way.

 

I actually gasped when Sam referred to himself as her future husband.  Had nothing to do with Rachel. It's just blatantly redoing Finn's dialogue. 

 

 

it seems like Chord has been mumbling a lot this season

 

That's not new.  I think he tends to rush his dialogue a lot.

 

 

I really feel like we can no longer attribute past seasons of Sam anymore- and I know Glee is inconsistent with it's characters and plots- but Sam becomes a blank canvas every season.

 

I still wonder where that sweet and relatively normal and unassuming kid from season 2 went.  

Edited January 31, 2015 by vb68

[Kromm]

I've may be the ONLY one perhaps (probably here, but maybe in the universe) who's putting aside all the "what the fuck did I just see" reactions and who's enjoying this pair of episodes as a hilarious cartoon-like parody of what Glee used to be.  I mean Jane deserves an Emmy for being able to spit out this stuff, it's so intentionally over the top. 

 

If I'd made a show that was really good for a year and a half, then barely okay for another half season, then in a nosedive into total shit for a few years after that, and then had to give it a big ending season... why not consciously make it a parody of itself.  What's left to lose?

[jaytee1812]

Because half of Finchel is dead? Mocking the relationship now seems overly insensitive, even for this show. I think the endgame line was more about making a mockery of the Glee fandom in general because endgame is a fandom word and we're getting a lot of that crap this season. I mean, I agree with you that it was a stupid and tasteless line, I just don't know if I believe it was an intentional dig at Finn/Rachel because I honestly don't think the writers pay attention to small details like particular words used during a conversation.

Do Americans gave an equivalent of the word 'banter'? Basically in the UK it used to refer to friends having a laugh, teasing each etc. it has now evolved into people who are trying to be racist, sexist, homophobic or just offensive but who think they're funny. When people are offended they defend it by saying 'it's just banter, haven't you got a sense of humour?'

That's how the Glee writers come over. They have no standards for what is funny and what is offensive, and then expect the audience to find these thing funny. They remind me of people who cry 'but it's just banter'.

Is it just me was it insensitive to have Becca sing It Must've Been Love? I mean maybe it was her choice or she didn't mind singing. But I was listening to the original and just thought 'ouch'.

Why would Kitty think the others abandoned her if they were kicked out?

[SadieT]

Was the mini-me of Sue in the elevator her way of acting out that she didn't get the part of the Joker in one of the Batman movies  (which of course would have tied in to her flashbacks) or did she maybe mate with a Joker, and that's what popped out?  I'm (mostly) kidding, but it is Glee.  You can never really know.  I just know it kinda gave me the creeps.  I don't know how they didn't stomp it.

 

 

The was based off of Jigsaw's puppet from the Saw movies, a horror movie franchise. It's meant to be creepy. 

[wayne67]

The was based off of Jigsaw's puppet from the Saw movies, a horror movie franchise. It's meant to be creepy. 

 

Though using it as part of a romantic subplot makes you wonder what the message is? Drawn together by being creeped out by a psychotic principal ?

[romantic idiot]

I have to say I loved this 2 parter. I was laughing so hard.  Granted it was the laughter of watching someone trip over a banana peel, but I'm grateful to Glee for finally making me understand how that is funny (never found it funny before). But it was hilarious, the show acknowledged that what they were doing and had done was truly stupid and I enjoyed the music. I don't really care enough about any of the characters to really think through what I saw at all. So it was fun for me. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by romantic idiot

[jaytee1812]

Wow, Kitty is by a country mile the best thing about this show. She could really use Supergirl though. Her line about the others deserting her was weird. They were kicked out, they had no choice. Sounds like she abandoned them. Though Becca totally sold that line, I love when she lets Kitty's mask fall.

Also her and Rachel work really well together, their scenes were lovely.

I actually fast forwarded everything else except some of the performances.

The Sue stuff is just weird and creepy.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So Jane, the amazing singer who transferred just so she could join New Directions, is the only one who didn't get a solo at this dumb invitational? But the two people who joined the day before both got solos? I guess that means Jane is the Tina of the New New Directions.

 

 

 

The way he just walked into the choir room and decided to become what seemed like co-captain w/Kitty really rubbed me the wrong way.  I know Sam built him up in that way saying how they team needed him like the original ND needed Finn was just crap.  Kitty as captain of the the team was earned in my opinion as she eloquently stated to Rachel basically as she was the remaining ND member after Sue cleaned house.  I just feel that the gay football player needs to earn that spot.

ITA - I'm fine with Kitty taking a leadership role since she is the only returning member, but Spencer shouldn't just stroll in and expect to be in any sort of leadership role. Yes, the group needs him but only in the sense that they need bodies to meet the required twelve person minimum. Maybe make it through one whole rehearsal before you elect yourself the new leader, dude.

 

And as someone who has been in several different performing groups over the years, the captain isn't necessarily the person with all the solos. Sometimes the person with the most leadership skills who can motivate the group is the one who has no solos. You don't have to be the most talented show off in the group in order to pull people together.

Edited January 31, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Petunia13]

Is it in Lea Michelle's contract she wears that necklace in every scene of every episode?

[Hana Chan]

I'm trying to find something positive to say about this episode. Chris looked stunningly gorgeous in that lighting and that shot where he was running with his shirt open... the costuming department is doing a great job showing off his body.

 

Other than that, this episode was a complete waste. I can't say enough about how stupid and distasteful the whole elevator kiss thing was (even if it has the Klaine fans on Tumblr wetting themselves). It was coerced and uncomfortable and it didn't pass my attention that the two of them were out of that elevator like their asses were on fire the instant that the door was open. I didn't see any evidence of them even having a second of lingering or wanting that moment to continue once they were no longer prisoners. And yeah... Blaine oh so casually mentioning Dave certainly doesn't hint at any longing or even consideration for Kurt's feelings.

 

Glad that Rachel figured out that asking Will to have his team throw the competition was the wrong thing to do and seemed to understand that ND succeeding was about more than her. But then telling the team that Sue hated her since they met? Talk about revisionist history. Sue hated Will. Rachel more often than not wasn't even a ping on Sue's radar unless it was to use her against Will. That does bolster the impression that Rachel continues to see everything through the prism of her being the center of the universe.

 

Speaking of Will... cannot blame the lead of VA ripping into him and blasting the truth bomb about Will being more interested in his old students and choir and the team he's currently coaching. The members of VA aren't likable, but Will liking them personally shouldn't be a factor about how much professional investment he has in doing the job that he's being paid very handsomely to do. The members of VA have every right to be pissed at him for putting ND's interests ahead of theirs.

 

Don't get me started on the whole Samchel bullshit. I just can't...

 

Musically, this episode was a bore. The Warblers were overproduced and frenetic and lost the qualities that made that choir so enjoyable in season two. As for ND... three songs with the same tone, same tempo and same feel. Totally boring. It felt like I was eating three servings of butterscotch pudding. Maybe the first serving was good, but by the third you can't ignore the artificial chemical butterscotch flavor. And no Jane solo, but Spencer gets featured? Yeah... that just was all kinds of wrong.

 

And again, we get the straight white male coming along to tell a minority character what to do. Glee never learns just how offensive that is. And then compounded it by citing the example of another straight white male rather than a gay character who's often proven to be the strongest and most bad ass of them all in the face of adversity to inspire Spencer.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Hana Chan

[Myrna123]

Reason #infinity why Glee is such a poorly conceived and plotted show: they have Kurt and Blaine locked in a confined space where they could have had them talk about why they didn't work or what they'd do again if they could or how they'll do it all differently from now on--there are endless possibilities and yet this episode didn't move either of them anywhere. We saw that they can pass the time amicably together by playing a silly parlor game. They've always managed to be civil to each other--I don't think viewers needed to be reminded of that.

They've got a finite number of episodes to get to the end--would it really have been that impossibly difficult to get a pad of paper and a pen and jotted down a plan to get from A to, say, C in 13 episodes? Winking at the audience to show you know you're putting out a shitfest of a show doesn't make you quite as awesome as the show runners seem to think.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kurt and Blaine being trapped in an elevator and forced to kiss in order to get out sounds like the kind of fantasy a 12 year old would come up with.

[jaytee1812]

Kurt and Blaine being trapped in an elevator and forced to kiss in order to get out sounds like the kind of fantasy a 12 year old would come up with.

Or as it's also known, the mental age of every glee writer.

I've made this complaint before, but don't these people have professional pride? Do they think Ryan Murphy and/or Fox will keep them in work?

Edited January 31, 2015 by jtrattray

[Sara2009]

I know we complain about Will's lack of boundaries with the students, but I think Sue now officially takes the cake in that department. I realize that she's a cartoon villain and all, but I still think these last 2 episodes took things a bit too far.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Sara2009

[jaytee1812]

I know we complain about Will's lack of boundaries with the students, but I think Sue now officially takes the cake in that department. I realize that ishe's a cartoon villain and all, but I still think these last 2 episodes took things a bit too far.

There were times I thought Will went too far and was too involved with his students, especially with Finn, I mean having a nineteen year old former student as your best man is strange. He should never have told Puck about Jake, and in the real world would've been in trouble for it. But mostly he was there for his students, when in some cases they had no-one else. And he would regularly fight their battles. (Artie in Wheels, Tina in Theatricality)

After the last two episodes Sue needs either arrested or sectioned.

(Do you call a mental health hold being sectioned?)

[Sara2009]

I'm not defending anything Will did, but at least he never kidnapped his students or forced them to kiss. Ha ha

[jaytee1812]

I'm not defending anything Will did, but at least he never kidnapped his students or forced them to kiss. Ha ha

Or encourage girls to sleep with guys to disrupt the glee club. Twice.

[DollEyes]

I'm not defending anything Will did, but at least he never kidnapped his students or forced them to kiss.

 

 

Or encouraged girls to sleep with guys to disrupt the glee club. Twice.

 

 

  Or became so utterly, completely and psychotically obsessed with two former students' romantic relationship that after they break up he tries to sabotage their relationships with other people every chance he gets. 

 

 

I know we complain about Will's lack of boundaries with the other students, but I think that Sue now officially takes the cake in that department. 

 

Sue "[took] the cake" way back in Season one, but her obsessing over Klaine to the point of imprisoning them and attempting to drug them in order to make them get back together is another level of crazy-and given Sue's track record, that's saying something. 

 

  Speaking of which, I'm starting to like Walt. He's still way too old for Kurt, but his not being the least bit fazed by Sue and asking her how old she was is a big plus in my book. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by DollEyes

[marieYOTZ]

I can't be too worked up about Rachel not remembering the NuNew Directions names when i watched all their episodes, and still couldn't have told you most of their names before reading them in this thread

[Ceeg]

Kurt and Blaine being trapped in an elevator and forced to kiss in order to get out sounds like the kind of fantasy a 12 year old would come up with.

 

It's bad fanfic. 

[ComfySweater]

It's bad fanfic. 

Bones is on season 10 on that premise. It can work.

[adam807]

Did Rachel and Kurt not overlap with the new kids for a year? Did I get that wrong? Ugh, sorry. Those middle years are a total blur. If she didn't, y'all are right: Why WOULD she know their names? Just another moment in these eps where someone is speaking for the audience or the writers instead of the characters.

[jaytee1812]

Did Rachel and Kurt not overlap with the new kids for a year? Did I get that wrong? Ugh, sorry. Those middle years are a total blur. If she didn't, y'all are right: Why WOULD she know their names? Just another moment in these eps where someone is speaking for the audience or the writers instead of the characters.

To be fair Rachel's so self-centred I'm surprised she remembers the names of those she was in glee club with.

She apparently didn't notice Mike was missing when 'everyone' came back in Homecoming.

[Myrna123]

I can't be too worked up about Rachel not remembering the NuNew Directions names when i watched all their episodes, and still couldn't have told you most of their names before reading them in this thread

The propensity for some posters on the boards to comment using the actors' names and others to use the characters' names meant that I knew a lot of the newbie actors' names and a lot of the newbie characters' names but I didn't know who anyone meant when they said any of the names. I don't' think the Glee writers know either, so... Yeah.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Myrna123

[Kromm]

I'm trying to find something positive to say about this episode. Chris looked stunningly gorgeous in that lighting and that shot where he was running with his shirt open... the costuming department is doing a great job showing off his body.

 

Other than that, this episode was a complete waste. I can't say enough about how stupid and distasteful the whole elevator kiss thing was (even if it has the Klaine fans on Tumblr wetting themselves). It was coerced and uncomfortable and it didn't pass my attention that the two of them were out of that elevator like their asses were on fire the instant that the door was open. I didn't see any evidence of them even having a second of lingering or wanting that moment to continue once they were no longer prisoners. And yeah... Blaine oh so casually mentioning Dave certainly doesn't hint at any longing or even consideration for Kurt's feelings.

 

Glad that Rachel figured out that asking Will to have his team throw the competition was the wrong thing to do and seemed to understand that ND succeeding was about more than her. But then telling the team that Sue hated her since they met? Talk about revisionist history. Sue hated Will. Rachel more often than not wasn't even a ping on Sue's radar unless it was to use her against Will. That does bolster the impression that Rachel continues to see everything through the prism of her being the center of the universe.

See, with respect, it's this kind of analysis of the plot and character motivations that seem to say, to me, that the lens people are seeing this pair of episodes through is too serious.  These are absurd parody episodes--I mean arguably the entire season is, but this pair of episodes in particular, is taking all these Glee elements, tossing them in a blender, and tossing bits of them back at the fans in a deliberately absurdest fashion.  And I'm not even saying that's necessarily a GOOD thing, because it's kind of a "fuck you and your feelings about the show" dick move on their part.  I'm just saying that if people ARE objecting to these episodes, this kind of laundry list of the moral elements of character decisions seems like a bit of wasted effort, because the reason the episode even HAS those ridiculous elements like all of the Klaine mocking, or a Samchel pairing with mondo-stupid elements, or Will and Rachel being totally unprofessional each in their own distinct ways, is because they're being tossed back to us deliberately in that fashion to rile us up.

 

In a nutshell I think the Glee showrunners are trolling us.  They knew the show had irretrievably headed into the garbage bin and this is an interesting way to deal with it, isn't it?  I have to admire that on some level, even as I cringe at how arrogant it is of them.

It's bad fanfic. 

I'd argue deliberately.  I mean think about it.  We had a Horror movie inspired animated doll deliver the scenario. Should we really be analyzing anything about it with any seriousness after that?  It shorthanded to me that they're tossing fan-isms straight back in people's faces on purpose.  Arrogant of them, yes, but it kind of precludes using actual character or plot logic to debate it--instead all we can do, I think, is shake our heads at what dicks they are to write it that way simply to get under our skins.

[cali1981]

I've may be the ONLY one perhaps (probably here, but maybe in the universe) who's putting aside all the "what the fuck did I just see" reactions and who's enjoying this pair of episodes as a hilarious cartoon-like parody of what Glee used to be.  I mean Jane deserves an Emmy for being able to spit out this stuff, it's so intentionally over the top. 

 

If I'd made a show that was really good for a year and a half, then barely okay for another half season, then in a nosedive into total shit for a few years after that, and then had to give it a big ending season... why not consciously make it a parody of itself.  What's left to lose?

But is this the way that Murphy and Falchuk really want to go out?  I thought that the entire elevator/Sue doll sequence was outright crap.  It was lazy, stupid  sloppy writing by a bunch of people who seem to have no clue as to how the close out the series.  God knows what Darren and Chris really thought when they were handed this drek in the script. The show is at a point where in order to score cheap laughs (not!) they have given Sue mystical powers worthy of Lord Voldermort. She can materialize a fake elevator with trap doors and all sorts of mechanical wonders in the middle of a high school?  Any fantasy or sci-fi has to have a sliver of reality behind it in order to work and this had none. 

The song set by ND was pretty good.  The newbies can sing and the ensemble sounded good together.  Hopefully they'll get good songs to perform.

How long is Will for VA?  They clearly detest him and I'm sure that they and their well heeled parents will push for his ouster.  It does happen in real life.  For the first two years of her high school band career, my daughter's band director was one of the most brilliant guys I've ever known.  The school couldn't allocate much to the band program and we weren't a wealthy community so he made up for that with a degree of musicianship, creativity and showmanship that let our 80 kid band compete with and, at times, beat bands that were 2-3 times its size with much more financial resources at their disposal.  As much of a genius as he was, our director was corny and a strict disciplinarian but the kids adored him and would perform beyond their limits for him.  He was just perfect for our school and these kids. He left for another HS band program in a very upper middle class+ city with kids who were not used to his style and resistant to the kind of band program that he wanted.  Well, guess what?  Before the school year ended the students and their well heeled parents mounted a well coordinated campaign to pressure the school board into action and sure enough, his contract was not renewed.  Will Schuster is facing the same problems and it will be adios Vocal Adrenaline.  The question will be where does Will end up?  Would Sue have to gone for him to return to McKinley and if he does what happens to Chris and Rachel?  There are some good plot possibilities there but the potential for this group of writers to completely botch them is there.

[Kromm]

But is this the way that Murphy and Falchuk really want to go out?  I thought that the entire elevator/Sue doll sequence was outright crap.  It was lazy, stupid  sloppy writing by a bunch of people who seem to have no clue as to how the close out the series.  God knows what Darren and Chris really thought when they were handed this drek in the script. The show is at a point where in order to score cheap laughs (not!) they have given Sue mystical powers worthy of Lord Voldermort. She can materialize a fake elevator with trap doors and all sorts of mechanical wonders in the middle of a high school?  Any fantasy or sci-fi has to have a sliver of reality behind it in order to work and this had none. 

The song set by ND was pretty good.  The newbies can sing and the ensemble sounded good together.  Hopefully they'll get good songs to perform.

How long is Will for VA?  They clearly detest him and I'm sure that they and their well heeled parents will push for his ouster.  It does happen in real life.  For the first two years of her high school band career, my daughter's band director was one of the most brilliant guys I've ever known.  The school couldn't allocate much to the band program and we weren't a wealthy community so he made up for that with a degree of musicianship, creativity and showmanship that let our 80 kid band compete with and, at times, beat bands that were 2-3 times its size with much more financial resources at their disposal.  As much of a genius as he was, our director was corny and a strict disciplinarian but the kids adored him and would perform beyond their limits for him.  He was just perfect for our school and these kids. He left for another HS band program in a very upper middle class+ city with kids who were not used to his style and resistant to the kind of band program that he wanted.  Well, guess what?  Before the school year ended the students and their well heeled parents mounted a well coordinated campaign to pressure the school board into action and sure enough, his contract was not renewed.  Will Schuster is facing the same problems and it will be adios Vocal Adrenaline.  The question will be where does Will end up?  Would Sue have to gone for him to return to McKinley and if he does what happens to Chris and Rachel?  There are some good plot possibilities there but the potential for this group of writers to completely botch them is there.

Nah, worse than any of that it was arrogant.  it was a "fuck you" to the folks that DO take those character motivations and relationships seriously.  But it was deliberate that Sue was so over the top and her methods essentially magical. It was deliberate that Will and Rachel's actions were cartoonishly naive.  It was deliberate that Samchel was pretty much cringeworthy.  This was the writers not being lazy, I'd argue, but arrogant and tossing all this stuff back at viewers to thumb their noses at these fan beliefs and reactions.  I appreciate it on one level because many of those fan/viewer reactions ARE bound to be funny in how seriously they proceed with the outrage, but I can also see how fucked up it is to treat your fans like that (as targets for your own sarcasm/trolling/baiting).

Edited January 31, 2015 by Kromm

[Ceeg]

 

It's bad fanfic.

I'd argue deliberately.  I mean think about it.  We had a Horror movie inspired animated doll deliver the scenario. Should we really be analyzing anything about it with any seriousness after that?  It shorthanded to me that they're tossing fan-isms straight back in people's faces on purpose.  Arrogant of them, yes, but it kind of precludes using actual character or plot logic to debate it--instead all we can do, I think, is shake our heads at what dicks they are to write it that way simply to get under our skins.

 

Nah, I think they're just hacks. And if they're purposely writing bad fanfic and trying to pass it off as funny, they're even worse hacks than I thought. Nothing they're writing is getting under my skin. I just think the writers are terrible at their jobs, and it makes me shake my head that they get paid money to write something I could find on FanFiction[dot]net, that a teenager wrote for free.

[jay741982]

Wow, Kitty is by a country mile the best thing about this show. She could really use Supergirl though. Her line about the others deserting her was weird. They were kicked out, they had no choice. Sounds like she abandoned them. Though Becca totally sold that line, I love when she lets Kitty's mask fall.

Also her and Rachel work really well together, their scenes were lovely.

I actually fast forwarded everything else except some of the performances.

The Sue stuff is just weird and creepy.

That was weird that Kitty said They abandoned her. I figured was it possible that Sue shipped them out in a way that made Kitty think they left her high and dry

[Kromm]

That was weird that Kitty said They abandoned her. I figured was it possible that Sue shipped them out in a way that made Kitty think they left her high and dry

Yeah, but this is also an alternate reality where Kitty admired Mr. Shue and joined because of that, and not because Sue put her up to it. 

[Hana Chan]

Nah, I think they're just hacks. And if they're purposely writing bad fanfic and trying to pass it off as funny, they're even worse hacks than I thought. Nothing they're writing is getting under my skin. I just think the writers are terrible at their jobs, and it makes me shake my head that they get paid money to write something I could find on FanFiction[dot]net, that a teenager wrote for free.

 

And often better written and more thoughtfully plotted out.

 

When Glee was at its best, it could go out on those outrageous limbs and still maintain a core of real sincerity. Now it's all just gimmicks and empty tricks. This episode is a prime example of that. I'm resigned to Kurt and Blaine being shoved back together this season, but to reenact a premise from a horror movie as the rationale? That's low, even by Glee standards.

[camussie]

I would argue that they are purposely writing Glee this way to troll fans but that is what makes it so lazy.  Instead of sitting down and figuring out a way to end this show on a high note they seem to have spent their time lurking  on message boards and reviewing Glee related tweets to find inspiration/source material for their writing.  After all why make the effort to craft actual stories when you can spend that time mocking fans instead?

 

On a separate note I want to revise what I said about Rachel showing growth last night.  I still think she did by acknowledging that asking Will to throw the competition was wrong but I don't like that she used a short cut (finding Sue's most emotional songs) to pull out a win for ND.  That worked with the invitational but what happens when they don't have that advantage at other competitions?  Also wasn't she outraged when other teams did the exact same thing way back in S1?  Still she did show growth with Will so i will take that step forward.  

 

And just one more observation - didn't Jane join ND so she would have a chance to solo at some point?  Yet she was the only newbie who didn't have a solo line.  

Edited January 31, 2015 by camussie

[tab19]

Winning a pointless invitational by trespassing and stealing songs they know emotionally effect the only judge of the competition was typical.

You know, it occurs to me that you could argue that this is the OPPOSITE of typical for New Directions.  Weren't they outraged in Season 1 when one of the opposing choirs did songs that pandered to the judges?  So now New Directions is the group pulling the 'dirty tricks' to win.  Interesting.

 

ETA:  Casumussie beat me to this.  :)

 

Speaking of which, I'm starting to like Walt. He's still way too old for Kurt, but his not being the least bit fazed by Sue and asking her how old she was is a big plus in my book. 

You know, you're right - Walt not only taking it calmly but dishing it back out was pretty nice.  

 

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Sam is mumbling/talking too fast and hard to understand.  I was going to posit that the actors mumble when they're embarrassed by their lines, but in that case I wouldn't expect to understand MOST of the actors for most of this season...

Edited January 31, 2015 by tab19

[ancslove]

Sue openly despised all three groups, or at least the coaches of all three, and all the groups knew it.  If ND resorted to cheap emotional manipulation to win a competition that wasn't even official, and that was only held for the sole reason of humiliating them, I really can't complain.  Rachel knew she was playing for time, trying to keep ND from embarrassing themselves so badly, when they weren't ready, that they all quit before they had really begun.  I don't think she ever cared about winning the Invitational, she just wanted to avoid total humiliation.

[jaytee1812]

That was weird that Kitty said They abandoned her. I figured was it possible that Sue shipped them out in a way that made Kitty think they left her high and dry

Except it was Kitty who told the UHT and Artie that Sue forced them to transfer.

[tom87]

Maybe they abandoned Kitty by not keeping in touch with her.

[jay741982]

Except it was Kitty who told the UHT and Artie that Sue forced them to transfer.

I forgot about that WOW that's right!

Maybe they abandoned Kitty by not keeping in touch with her.

I bet that's what she meant. She seemed so sad. Are any of them coming back? I thought I read Jake and Unique are but I'm not sure

[jaytee1812]

Maybe they abandoned Kitty by not keeping in touch with her.

That still feels like a retcon. I mean does that seem like Marley.

Also in this day and age who loses touch unless it's deliberate. I have people I went to school with on my Facebook and I left before the internet was invented!

[tom87]

Maybe Marley remembered Kitty helped her get a eating disorder so she figure why bother.  And since when has glee worried if something was ooc?

 

People drift a part all the time even if they like your post on Facebook isn't the same as hanging out .

Edited January 31, 2015 by tom87

[cali1981]

 Rachel knew she was playing for time, trying to keep ND from embarrassing themselves so badly, when they weren't ready, that they all quit before they had really begun.  I don't think she ever cared about winning the Invitational, she just wanted to avoid total humiliation.

That was one reason but the other probably was that Rachel (and Kurt) wanted this new, raw group to have the experience of performing for real on a stage in front of an "audience".  That was as valuable as not being embarrassed.

[Helena Dax]

When Glee started, I used to compare it with The Simpson. I still do, in the sense that characters or plots aren't supposed to be taken seriously, II mean, what's  the point in  accusing Homer of being an awful dad or complaining because Mr. Burns should have been arrested a million times by now? To each their own, of course, but imo, this show made a huge mistake when it started to take too seriously the fans who were taking the show too seriously.

 

I liked this episode. I read fanfiction everyday, so I'm  used to the "let's put the boys in a closed space so they can kiss" cliche. It'd be outrageous in real life, but  having a pencil stuck inside your brain, like Homer had, would be awful too. The Saw/Sue doll was hilarious, especially the way the boys reacted everytime they saw it. And while I'm not really a big fan of the pairing anymore, I want them to end up together because I used to ship them a lot when they met.

 

Although the age difference is a bit creepy to me, I like the guy Kurt is dating. I laughed when he said that line about being too  handsome to be bothered by things.  And he knows how to handle Sue! Hamlin's doing a great job.

 

I really want to know more about the new Glee members.

 

It seems that Will's going to  have serious problems with VA. It's a pity, because I think it'd be funnier if they  were just WTF and lots of eyerolling everytime he opened his mouth. 

[Hana Chan]

Rachel knew she was playing for time, trying to keep ND from embarrassing themselves so badly, when they weren't ready, that they all quit before they had really begun.  I don't think she ever cared about winning the Invitational, she just wanted to avoid total humiliation.

 

Except these were the same kids who asked Rachel to not go easy on them because they wanted to improve as a group. I think that they were pretty aware of just how outmatched they were and while no one likes to lose, I didn't get the impression that the kids were especially anxious.

 

Rachel, on the other hand, was. I think Rachel's very failure-adverse now and was projecting a lot of her issues on the kids. If she saw their performance as a reflection on herself, then losing is probably the last thing she was able to stand at this point. And that was getting hammered home with the periodic reminders of just how bad her TV show was (and criticisms now of her acting ability).

[Myrna123]

I wouldn't care if Glee was being irreverent and self-referential and over-the-top with their meta and winking and/or thumbing their noses at their audience if they were doing it in an entertaining way. The dreck of the last two episodes shows the show runners aren't up to the task of parody. You can play with the audience and still be clever; you can call out the fandom things that drive a show crazy and still be funny. Glee is just really horrible.

There's the idea that since Glee is such a failure as a standard comedy or drama or whatever that they're just throwing in the towel and going full on parody, but to competently do parody you kind of have to be able to first do the standard, otherwise you're just turning out crap as usual. Hi Glee.