S02.E14: Kali Yuga

[DeLurker]

The guardian part I got, but Jenny specifically said Carmilla was his godmother.  Since godparents are generally appointed when someone is an infant, that (using my assumptions) would have made her appointed godparent at 8ish.  Which in my experience would be unheard of.

 

Most of this is just nitpicky stuff that strikes me - it really isn't a significant issue. 

[Valny]

I haven't watched these last two eps,but reading some of these comments, sounds like a good one. Karaoke Crane?!!! Must see this!   Can I skip last week's and be ok and not lost? Because that sounded like a much hated ep.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Valny

[stealinghome]

What new evidence has exonerated Frank?  Inquiring minds and all.

Maybe someone finally grew a brain cell and realized that there's no way Macie could have committed the murder, Irving recanted saying he only confessed to protect her, and what should have happened like 2 minutes into last season's finale finally did? (I'm curious to see where they're going with Frank, but the setup/getting there has been awful in execution.)

 

That said, I'm guessing Henry has something to do with whatever new evidence there is, because he somehow has puppet strings on Irving and it would be inconvenient for him to have Irving locked up.

 

When she's done she says "there's no influence on your soul".  Maybe Irving no longer has a soul?

Oooh! I hadn't thought of that, but it's an intriguing idea.

 

At least 6. Given she seemed to have been monsterfied for a while now, I just sort of assumed after she "turned" she stopped aging.

Yeah, that was also my assumption. With that said, I thought Murray looked young, but not impossibly so, to have been Hawley's godmother even without a lack of aging. And her being a young godmother would actually fit with the notion that she took Hawley with her on a lot of her artifact-finding trips, which I thought the episode implied.

Edited January 27, 2015 by stealinghome

[cynic]

I like Hawley (when he's not getting an excessive amount of screen time at Jenny's expense), so I'm sad to see him go. Best of luck to Matt Barr.

I have found it difficult to really pay attention this season, so it could just be me missing things, but I felt like the Abbie/Crane conflict was unearned and all the conversations about it felt forced. Sure, there have been a few indications here and there, but I don't think the writers spent enough time laying the foundation for such an important development between the main pair, especially since this seems like it's going to rear its head again before the season is over.

Still, I enjoyed this episode more than most of the others this year.

On a completely shallow note, pretty much everyone's hair looked bad, especially Ichabod and Katrina. (Why is there absolutely no consistency to her wigs?) Speaking of Katrina, I will say that I found Katia Winter fairly tolerable in her first scene. I'm chalking it up to the limited amount of lines and that she actually seemed like she wasn't whispering for once. She was back to whispering in the end scene, but it kinda fit in with the overall shadiness there, so ehh.

[marceline]

 

What new evidence has exonerated Frank?  Inquiring minds and all.

 

Maybe Luke (remember him?) came back from the moon and told them all of what went down that day.

 

(Yes, I'm still ticked that they got rid of Luke. Not so much that he's gone but that they didn't even bother to explain it. That's just crap writing.)

[Latverian Diplomat]

I think with "Proud Mary", the writers missed a chance for Ichabod to validate the classic stoner claim that Washington was a huge hemp enthusiast. :-)

[WearyTraveler]

I actually think she is playing them and plans on using Frank to get to Henry. 

 

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think Frank IS Henry.  I'm thinking Henry took over Frank's body because of the connection that was forged when Frank killed Henry's avatar.  Katrina saw this when she saw into "Frank's soul" (she kept seeing the scenes that connected Frank and Henry) and she kept it to herself because she wants to outsmart Henry, for once.

 

That's why I was wondering if he's not quite "right" because he didn't seem to remember their troubled past (I'm not sure if they were divorced or just separated). I think his wife was just so relieved to have him back that she didn't feel quite right about setting him straight about it. 

 

(bold formatting is mine) I don't think she was relieved.  I think the fact he didn't "remember" is what prompted her to seek Katrina's help.  And I think the fact that he doesn't remember indicates that Frank is not really Frank, but someone else using his body, or his image.  Nobody has gone to Irving's grave to check for a body.  They should do that ASAP.

 

Also, wouldn't he not show up on that video streaming feed that Abbie was watching when he first came back to the police station and got locked in that room? I'm confused by this turn of events for Frank. You can't have him have no reflection sometimes and have it show up other times. That makes no sense.

 

I agree with others that it was probably the drink Katrina gave him that caused his reflection to disappear.

[DearEvette]

I think Henry had something to do with Frank's exoneration.  Whatever is going on with him, having him on the run, locked up or constantly being hunted by the police most likely does not serve their purpose at this time.  If they wanted him off the grid, they could have kept everyone believing he was still dead.  But the fact that he showed up and walked into the police precinct means his being there in Sleepy Hollow and able to walk around freely is some part of the plan.

 

One of the saddest things about S2 is that we've lost so much trust in the writers.  If this season had kept on the S1 trajectory, I would have no problems believing 100% there is some long plan behind what we've seen of Frank's reappearance.  If this were S1-like season, I would have no problem thinking that Frank's determination to move in with his estranged wife and his seeming eagerness to have Macy back is because of whatever they have up their sleeves.  But with what has happened with S2, it is hard to speculate because nothing about this season has been clever so far or even hints at long term planning.  I hope I am wrong an will be surprised.

 

That said, I still really liked this episode.

[sinkwriter]

 

(bold formatting is mine) I don't think she was relieved.  I think the fact he didn't "remember" is what prompted her to seek Katrina's help.

 

I think it was a mixture. She was relieved enough not to set him straight immediately (and not even allow him into the same bed with her, because they aren't technically "together" as a married couple and had been having troubles for some time), but she was also disturbed that he didn't seem to remember their troubles and probably also had Abbie's warnings and concerns swirling around in her head, causing her to wonder just who was in bed with her and to want to seek Katrina's assurance.

 

 

I agree with others that it was probably the drink Katrina gave him that caused his reflection to disappear.

 

I'm not seeing a reason why she would do that to him. Which is not to say that a reason couldn't be revealed later that makes sense (or doesn't make sense, as is often the path for these types of shows, heh). But if she did something to him that caused his reflection to disappear, I don't know why he wouldn't have freaked out at the first sight of his reflection being gone and said, "What did you do to me? I was at the precinct in front of mirrors all day, stuck in that interrogation room, and my reflection was there the whole time."

[HalcyonDays]

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think Frank IS Henry.  I'm thinking Henry took over Frank's body because of the connection that was forged when Frank killed Henry's avatar.  Katrina saw this when she saw into "Frank's soul" (she kept seeing the scenes that connected Frank and Henry) and she kept it to herself because she wants to outsmart Henry, for once.

 

 

(bold formatting is mine) I don't think she was relieved.  I think the fact he didn't "remember" is what prompted her to seek Katrina's help.  And I think the fact that he doesn't remember indicates that Frank is not really Frank, but someone else using his body, or his image.  Nobody has gone to Irving's grave to check for a body.  They should do that ASAP.

 

 

I agree with others that it was probably the drink Katrina gave him that caused his reflection to disappear.

 

This is a fabulous idea. I love it. Implying that if Frank looked at his own reflection, he wouldn't see himself, but he would see Henry, or even the Horseman of War's avatar. The ending scene did make Katrina seem shady, but if her concerned look was because she knew what had really happened (and we find out in the next episodes), that would also make sense. Also lends credence to the theory at the beginning of the episode that Frank becomes War. That's why she took his reflection away - so he doesn't know, and the next steps could be planned. I like it.

 

My only complaint is that the first thing she did was ask about Henry. This is why people don't like Katrina. Not concerned about the dead man himself. Not concerned about what he's feeling or thinking. Just "where's Henry." Unless again we find out she already suspected and that's why she asked.

 

Shallowness time. Hawley should have spent more time shirtless this season *grin*. And damn, can Mison drop his voice very low. Seriously deep voice when singing. Awesome. Also, I like that Mison suggested the sailor shanty for Ichabod to sing. If you already didn't now, the song is about a sailor who gets syphilis.

[WearyTraveler]

I think it was a mixture. She was relieved enough not to set him straight immediately (and not even allow him into the same bed with her, because they aren't technically "together" as a married couple and had been having troubles for some time), but she was also disturbed that he didn't seem to remember their troubles and probably also had Abbie's warnings and concerns swirling around in her head, causing her to wonder just who was in bed with her and to want to seek Katrina's assurance.

 

 

I'm not seeing a reason why she would do that to him. Which is not to say that a reason couldn't be revealed later that makes sense (or doesn't make sense, as is often the path for these types of shows, heh). But if she did something to him that caused his reflection to disappear, I don't know why he wouldn't have freaked out at the first sight of his reflection being gone and said, "What did you do to me? I was at the precinct in front of mirrors all day, stuck in that interrogation room, and my reflection was there the whole time."

 

I'm not saying she did it to him intentionally.  I think it takes a lot of psychic energy for Henry to maintain the illusion that he is Frank and the drink Katrina gave him, which was designed to "look into his soul", weakened him, so he couldn't completely achieve the entire illusion.  I also think the effects are temporary, and we'll be back to seeing his reflection again once Henry recovers from the ritual performed by Katrina.

[Fiddler1]

 

During the Kali conversation with Ichabod describing the arm positions, all I could think was they finally got an opportunity for Mison's hands to actually act!  On purpose.

 

I loved the way he used his hands in that scene.....SO expressive.    Best episode in awhile!

[DeLurker]

 

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think Frank IS Henry.  I'm thinking Henry took over Frank's body because of the connection that was forged when Frank killed Henry's avatar.  Katrina saw this when she saw into "Frank's soul" (she kept seeing the scenes that connected Frank and Henry) and she kept it to herself because she wants to outsmart Henry, for once.

I like it!  I like John Noble well enough, but he's been over-exposed this season and he's just gnashing through the scenes.  An evil Frankenhenry could work and Orlando Jones could rock it.

 

Not sure about Katrina being able to outsmart Henry.  She seems to lack the requisite brain power and her attempts at eaves dropping/spying when she was being held captive were not well done.  I'm not confident at all in her sneak-ability.

[Clanstarling]

The guardian part I got, but Jenny specifically said Carmilla was his godmother.  Since godparents are generally appointed when someone is an infant, that (using my assumptions) would have made her appointed godparent at 8ish.  Which in my experience would be unheard of.

 

Most of this is just nitpicky stuff that strikes me - it really isn't a significant issue. 

My first impression of their relationship when Carmilla first turned up was that she was a Fagin-like person, collecting homeless orphans and having them steal for her (the other boys she "raised" with Hawley were either dead or in prison). Did Hawley call her his godmother - or was it just a convenient way to describe their complicated relationship?

 

I thought Katrina was sketchy there at the end, but I really like HalcyonDays theory. The memories elicited from Irving were, I believe, only from the time period after he was bound to Henry. Also WearyTraveler's explanation of how that might explain the lack of reflection made sense in that context.

Edited January 27, 2015 by clanstarling

[Nutjob]

I had forgotten the news about them casting Jaime Murray for this season, so I didn't recognize her until about halfway through (I think the American accent threw me off). Then the light bulb went on, and I thought, "OHHH! It's gross, English, titty vampire!" Thanks, Deb Morgan!

[savinggrace]

It was nice to see the team having fun together which, not surprisingly, they seem to do more of when Katrina isn't around. I loved Abbie and Jenny checking in on each others relationships. That's what sisters do. They can't just be about the apocalypse all the time.

 

The Ichabbie conversation in the vault definitely seemed fan-driven. It was kinda awkward to me because it was so obvious they were addressing the checklist of fan complaints. I really don't think there is equal blame and don't like that they tried to equate things like Abbie trusting Orion with the many times Ichabod let her down or betrayed her trust. They also seriously need to stop having Abbie proclaim "Katrina was right". It's like they feel by having Abbie say it then fans will have to agree by default. It's really annoying.

 

This was a good episode. It really highlighted for me that Hawley was a good addition to the team. He brought out a different side of each character that they didn't bring out in each other --at least as far as Ichabod and Jenny went. I liked seeing Crane's competitive, jealous side and Jenny's more vulnerable side. We have been spoiled with an abundance of kick-ass heroines in movies and TV and a common trope has emerged of them being stoic, maneaters. I'm okay with Jenny liking a guy and being vulnerable. It's what humans do.

 

One of my biggest gripes with this show is how they tell rather than show things. For some reason they seem to be really good with showing instead of telling when it comes to Hawley. The way his crush on Abbie was telegraphed over the course of several episodes without heavy expositions was well-done. I also like how we were shown that Hawley cares about Team Witness despite his very dubious actions. It was very Hawley to "protect" the team buy locking them up in closets and what not. He wasn't going to come out and say "hey I care about you people" so he was basically like "I'm sticking your asses in the vault so this bitch doesn't kill you and I don't care if I look like a bad guy doing it." I'm glad the writers finally bought a clue and realized that not every exit has to be by death. I hope when the dust settles they bring Hawley back.

 

On a shallow note, I really appreciated shirtless Hawley. I also liked him in the black suit. He gave me Bradley Cooper in The Hangover vibes.

 

I hate to beat a dead horse but I am so so so tired of wondering every episode whether Katrina's expressions are intended to convey something more or even wondering what her expressions are supposed to be (fear? suspicion? is she plotting?).  It shouldn't be that hard for a good actor to convey to the audience distinct representations of  fear, cunning, suspicion or deviousness. None of her prior ambiguous looks ever amounted to anything. You think to yourself, she acted weird there, and it turns out to mean nothing because Katia Winter was literally just making weird acting choices. If they keep Katrina I wish they'd re-cast her with a better actress.

Edited January 28, 2015 by savinggrace

[phoenics]

I'm not seeing a reason why she would do that to him. Which is not to say that a reason couldn't be revealed later that makes sense (or doesn't make sense, as is often the path for these types of shows, heh). But if she did something to him that caused his reflection to disappear, I don't know why he wouldn't have freaked out at the first sight of his reflection being gone and said, "What did you do to me? I was at the precinct in front of mirrors all day, stuck in that interrogation room, and my reflection was there the whole time."

I think the reason might be in how she asked Frank (almost in an interrogatory way) where Henry was and Frank was like, "I have no idea what you are talking about."

Katrina got a really, really bitchy look on her face and her lips went into kind of a sneer/smirk and her expression said, "Oh really? Well I got something fo yo @ss." and handed Frank the drink.

When I watched the first time, I swore she was about to kill Frank and Cynthia and I had a really eery thought after she "bonded" with Frank that SHE BECAME Henry.

I can't explain it - but I know that's probably not it.

My problem with trying to interpret Katrina in that scene is that KW's expressions for so many emotions are EXACTLY the same! She looked shady as hell but it was impossible to tell if that was real or if she's giving us "Magnum" and "Blue Steel".

It's frustrating.

I like it!  I like John Noble well enough, but he's been over-exposed this season and he's just gnashing through the scenes.  An evil Frankenhenry could work and Orlando Jones could rock it.

 

Not sure about Katrina being able to outsmart Henry.  She seems to lack the requisite brain power and her attempts at eaves dropping/spying when she was being held captive were not well done.  I'm not confident at all in her sneak-ability.

The only thing that would excite me about this would be being able to call him "FrankenHenry".

[phoenics]

SH ratings at 1.5 (I think that includes some DVR, which feels odd because it hasn't been 24 hours yet).

I guess we could check back later for the +2 or +3 ratings?

I'm confused about how this works now.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The guardian part I got, but Jenny specifically said Carmilla was his godmother. Since godparents are generally appointed when someone is an infant, that (using my assumptions) would have made her appointed godparent at 8ish. Which in my experience would be unheard of.

Most of this is just nitpicky stuff that strikes me - it really isn't a significant issue.

I thought he also mentioned that she was his aunt which would make it less surprising that she wasn't 20+ years older than Hawley. My aunts (both of my mom's sisters) were only 16 and 13 when I was born. The 16 year old one was made my godmother and when my sister was born less than two years later, my other aunt was made her godmother. At the time, my parents didn't intend for my teenaged aunts to raise us if anything happened. It was more for the christening.

Same thing happened in Mr. EB's family. He was only 13 when his cousin was born and he was asked to be the godfather (Mr. EB's uncle was a teenager when Mr. EB was born and made his godfather). I don't know if it's just our families like this where there are some big age gaps between the oldest and youngest siblings so that the godparents are not 30+ years older, but that particular plot point didn't bother me.

The other thing is the assumption that Carmilla was 8 when Hawley was born. We don't actually know how old her character was supposed to be. It's possible that she just looks fantastic for her age (I know 40 year old women who still get carded buying beer at the grocery store) or that she stopped aging when she was turned. Didn't Hawley say it had been ten years since he ran away?

My nitpick was her name. During the episode I couldn't tell if her name was Camilla or Carmela or if some of the actors weren't pronouncing it correctly or what, so I totally laughed when I saw that her character's name was Carmilla.

[kminfinity]

This is not going to be a popular opinion,

Au contraire!  ;-D

 

but I think Frank IS Henry.

 

YES!  This would be an excellent way to keep Henry, the Horseman of War, but minimize the CFD...  And maybe it's Henry possessing Frank - then 'Frank' can kill Katrina, and then cast out Henry, and we can keep RealFrank.

[theatremouse]

I thought he also mentioned that she was his aunt which would make it less surprising that she wasn't 20+ years older than Hawley.

Jenny did. In the Mustang from the back seat she says Carmilla is his godmother, and the whole "when he was 12" thing. Then when Jenny first catches up to Hawley at Knox's she says to him "your aunt's a monster". So it would appear she is all three.

[caprice]

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think Frank IS Henry.  I'm thinking Henry took over Frank's body because of the connection that was forged when Frank killed Henry's avatar.  Katrina saw this when she saw into "Frank's soul" (she kept seeing the scenes that connected Frank and Henry) and she kept it to herself because she wants to outsmart Henry, for.

It looks like you've struck a chord! Honestly, I had the same thought when I re-watched the show today.

Other than that, more reasons for Crane and Abbie to sing, please.

[phoenics]

Man - now I need to go back to look at the episode again... I was so busy looking at KW telegraphing "shady" that I wasn't paying enough attention to Frank. Although he did look surprised at his non-reflection - but that still doesn't discount the FrankenHenry theory.

I wish KW could do better than "Magnum" and "Blue Steel". It's the same look over and over again masquerading as different emotions so you could never be sure what she was conveying.

I do wonder if Katrina "looking shady" to most of us in the episode is the same red herring they left last season where they intentionally misled to deflect from the shocker of Henry=Jeremy=War?

Maybe Henry/Frank will be fighting over the same body/soul?

[Snookums]

Black-market supernatural treasure-traders need to arrive in style -- and get away fast. Make Nick Hawley's wheels of choice your choice for nighttime meetings in junkyards where your foster mom guilt-trips you into breaking into the Knox estate! Six cylinders, heated seats, and a glovebox roomy enough for a cross and some brass knuckles: Mustang. Better red than undead.

 

 

I didn't care about the car in the first scene with them, but then the commercial? That was absolutely shameless and made me realize that the dialogue was nothing but a fucking ad. It's like they turned Katrina into a Mustang. It was even red!

 

I especially loved how he stopped in the middle of singing to say, "That doesn't even make sense." LOL!

 

 

It works perfectly that Ichabod didn't understand that line, because it's absolutely filthy and he'd be horrified by what he just said.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Snookums

[sinkwriter]

 

I didn't care about the car in the first scene with them, but then the commercial? That was absolutely shameless and made me realize that the dialogue was nothing but a fucking ad. It's like they turned Katrina into a Mustang. It was even red!

 

They used to do that a lot on White Collar as well. In fact, one of my favorite "blooper reel" moments is a camera snippet of Matt Bomer and Tim DeKay sitting in the ever-present, forever-advertised-within-the-show Ford Taurus, preparing to film a scene, and someone off camera tells Tim to hold his hands a different way on the steering wheel or look a little more like he's actually driving the car, and Matt sarcastically jokes like a salesman, "But the great thing about the Ford Taurus is that it practically drives itself!" And Tim cracks up at that.

 

I laughed and laughed when I saw that clip, because I was so glad to see that the actors were in on it with us viewers, they knew just how stupid or over-the-top those forced "advertisements" within the episode appeared to be, they had to suck it up and do it anyway but they hated it too. And they put voice to it sometimes because it's just so lame and pointless. I already adored Matt and Tim, but that moment made me respect them all the more.

 

Somehow I'm betting poor Tom and Nicole have had to eyeroll their way through filming a few of those ridiculous moments on Sleepy Hollow.

[DearEvette]

SH ratings at 1.5 (I think that includes some DVR, which feels odd because it hasn't been 24 hours yet).

I guess we could check back later for the +2 or +3 ratings?

I'm confused about how this works now.

 

 

I think the 1.5 is the final same-day rating in  the 18-49 demo for SH, not counting Live +3 or Live +7 DVR stuff.  The first ratings that come out (last night was  1.4) are the fast nationals which only measure what is aired on that network in that time period across all affiliates. The final rating that comes out is after they adjust for such thing as affiliate pre-emptions, time overruns etc. so the final rating measures who actually watched that particular show.  Certain things happen on certain affiliates that look like they inflate of depress ratings in the fast nationals until the adjustment is complete.  We don't see the +3 and +7 for at least a week.  And I don't know how twitter ratings come into play but I saw that for the first time in months  that SH trended.

[slade3]

Ah, thank you. And Nicole can really sing. :-)

Nicole was in a movie called My Last Day Without You. She plays a singer and I think the movie revolves around her struggling singing career and the German man who falls in love with her. It's an independent film that never made it to theaters was released on DVD in November 2014. When I first heard about it, I lost interest because I'm not a fan of movies that have a lead character singing, but now that I find I like Nicole Behairie a lot, I'm curious to see it.

[marceline]

It works perfectly that Ichabod didn't understand that line, because it's absolutely filthy and he'd be horrified by what he just said.

 

Why is it filthy? I always assumed that "Pumped a lot of 'tane down in New Orleans" referred to working at a gas station. Am I one of those people who've been singing the wrong lyrics all this time?

[DeLurker]

I had forgotten the news about them casting Jaime Murray for this season, so I didn't recognize her until about halfway through (I think the American accent threw me off). Then the light bulb went on, and I thought, "OHHH! It's gross, English, titty vampire!" Thanks, Deb Morgan!

I'll need an explanation for this!

One of my biggest gripes with this show is how they tell rather than show things. For some reason they seem to be really good with showing instead of telling when it comes to Hawley. The way his crush on Abbie was telegraphed over the course of several episodes without heavy expositions was well-done. I also like how we were shown that Hawley cares about Team Witness despite his very dubious actions. It was very Hawley to "protect" the team buy locking them up in closets and what not. He wasn't going to come out and say "hey I care about you people" so he was basically like "I'm sticking your asses in the vault so this bitch doesn't kill you and I don't care if I look like a bad guy doing it." I'm glad the writers finally bought a clue and realized that not every exit has to be by death. I hope when the dust settles they bring Hawley back.

I hate to beat a dead horse but I am so so so tired of wondering every episode whether Katrina's expressions are intended to convey something more or even wondering what her expressions are supposed to be (fear? suspicion? is she plotting?).  It shouldn't be that hard for a good actor to convey to the audience distinct representations of  fear, cunning, suspicion or deviousness. None of her prior ambiguous looks ever amounted to anything. You think to yourself, she acted weird there, and it turns out to mean nothing because Katia Winter was literally just making weird acting choices. If they keep Katrina I wish they'd re-cast her with a better actress.

 

Agree that Hawley was more show than tell.  I think that since so much has been Katrinacentric that they've had to do tell than show.  Which leads to the second bolded (mine) line, about her expressions.  My feeling it is not ambigous by design.  It seems to be a byproduct of her limiting acting abilities and the viewers are left trying to extract an emotion that makes sense.  Color me surprised if it does turn out to be by design and that Katrina turns out to be the big bad and starts nailing scenes and emotions.

 

The only thing that would excite me about this would be being able to call him "FrankenHenry".

I am so pleased with myself over FrankenHenry so I want them to go this route so I can keep writing that.

 

My nitpick was her name. During the episode I couldn't tell if her name was Camilla or Carmela or if some of the actors weren't pronouncing it correctly or what, so I totally laughed when I saw that her character's name was Carmilla.

I had on closed captioning and they had Carmilla but it was very fluid in what they actually said.

 

Why is it filthy? I always assumed that "Pumped a lot of 'tane down in New Orleans" referred to working at a gas station. Am I one of those people who've been singing the wrong lyrics all this time?

I never knew it was filthy either.

[marceline]

I haven't watched these last two eps,but reading some of these comments, sounds like a good one. Karaoke Crane?!!! Must see this!   Can I skip last week's and be ok and not lost? Because that sounded like a much hated ep.

 

I skipped last week's ep and I didn't have any problem with this one. It's not like continuity has been a strong point this season. 

[Nutjob]

I had forgotten the news about them casting Jaime Murray for this season, so I didn't recognize her until about halfway through (I think the American accent threw me off). Then the light bulb went on, and I thought, "OHHH! It's gross, English, titty vampire!" Thanks, Deb Morgan!

I'll need an explanation for this!

Jaime Murray played a psycho in the second season of Dexter named Lila. Dex's sister Debra hates her for myriad reasons (not the least of which was catching her wandering around topless in Dex's apartment shortly after his breakup with his girlfriend), and insults her whenever possible. That quote was my favorite of the insults. ;)

Edited January 28, 2015 by Nutjob

[BigEasygirl]

I watched the show last night, and I'm glad to say that it was good.  SH is at least three quarters of the way back on track.  Everyone's pretty much said everything that needed to be said about the great moments, so I won't cover ground that's already been tread.  Anyway, I'm glad I DVR'd it for the Ichabbie karaoke moments, but the episode delivered so much more.  It was a real treat to watch. 

[Helena Dax]

I liked it. I'm glad to have proof  that the writers know the relationship between Ichabod and Abbie isn't what it used to be and  it's presented as something wrong. I still believe Katrina was never meant to be Ichabod's great love or a truly positive character. In  fact, she's the main reason our heroes have been growing apart so much. And she looked definitely shady in her last scene with Irving. But I agree that if this was their intention  all along, the writers should have done it better.

 

On the other hand, if they have just realized most of us hate what they've been doing in season two and they're trying to fix their mistakes... Well, there's that, at least. I think this show still can  be saved. 

 

Loved the scenes in the karaoke bar. Abbie and Ichabod are amazing together. 

 

So Hawley is gone for good? Sorry to hear that, I don't think he was a bad character. My main problem with him was that creepy love triangle the writers wanted to create with him and the Mills sisters. 

[Snookums]

Why is it filthy? I always assumed that "Pumped a lot of 'tane down in New Orleans" referred to working at a gas station.

 

 

Hee, the actual line is "popped a lotta 'tang down in New Orleans," which is a very very very vulgar way of saying you had sex with a lot of virgins.

[savinggrace]

Did the red mustang ever make an appearance before tonight? Hawley always drove a truck. It seemed weird that suddenly he turns up in a shiny new mustang. I guess Ford only paid for ad space in one episode.

[RiddleyWalker]

Watched the episode yesterday and thought it was definitely a step in the right direction. The Ichabod/Abbie chemistry was fantastic and (though the thought of it made me cringe before I'd seen it) the karaoke parts were well done and emphasized their bond. 

 

The A-plot was pretty good and I really like the shout-outs to the old Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom movie. That shot of Hawley in profile with his shirt off? Totally taken from that movie (in a self-knowing, winking way) as well as the "Kali" chanting and the  fiery torches. 

 

Loved the two sides of Jenny in this episode. From caring sister to smash-your-face in a glass counter badass, she did it all. Go Jenny!

 

Jaime Murray (who I'd not seen before) did a nice job as Carmilla and was adequately creepy with a certain weird eroticism that made the character interesting (to me) even I still can't figure out what she actually had to do with Hawley before given how young she is...

 

Sorry to see Hawley go but I think he might be back. Take care of that Mustang, compadre!

 

The episode was certainly a stand alone, non-serialized MOTW episode but there were at least hints of a possible larger story arc with Orion's keychain thingy showing up and Katrina being shady. Also No-Reflection Undead Irving--hmmmmm? 

 

The episode had nothing that made me angry or bored (as recent episodes have) but nothing that made me super-excited to see what happens next, either.  All in all, a nice change of direction and we'll have to see if the old magic can be brought back...

[sinkwriter]

 

Hee, the actual line is "popped a lotta 'tang down in New Orleans," which is a very very very vulgar way of saying you had sex with a lot of virgins.

 

Sorry, but I don't think that's right either!  *GRIN* Every reference I look at says it's "cleaned a lot of plates in Memphis, pumped a lot of 'tane down in New Orleans." As in, I worked hard in a diner and a gas station. I don't think Crane would be familiar with an octane or propane reference.

 

One site even says it has been sung as "pumped a lot of 'pane" as in propane. According to a site called "Song Facts" John Fogarty initially wrote it with a 'domestic washerwoman in mind' (named Proud Mary) but eventually he felt the first few chords reminded him of a paddle wheel going around, which made him think about the Mississippi River and "Proud Mary" also became a boat. "Big wheel keeps on turning..."  Either way, good song, and fun singing by Abbie and Ichabod.  :)

Edited January 29, 2015 by sinkwriter

[RiddleyWalker]

Hee, the actual line is "popped a lotta 'tang down in New Orleans," which is a very very very vulgar way of saying you had sex with a lot of virgins.

Ha! The adolescent boy deep within me thinks that's very funny! (think Beavis and Butthead--hunh, hunh, she said 'tang..).  I always thought it was "pumped a lot of pain" but never really could figure out what that meant. Now that folks have mentioned "'pane" as in "propane", I wonder if it is "'pane" with the reference to "pain" in there as well…?

[Terrafamilia]

If the word is "pane" I'd think of "windowpane", a slang term for LSD.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

According to a site called "Song Facts" John Fogarty initially wrote it with a 'domestic washerwoman in mind' (named Proud Mary) but eventually he felt the first few chords reminded him of a paddle wheel going around, which made him think about the Mississippi River and "Proud Mary" also became a boat. "Big wheel keeps on turning..."  Either way, good song, and fun singing by Abbie and Ichabod.

Hee, no mention of the drug references? Puff the Magic Dragon was just about a dragon too!

[sinkwriter]

When I listen to Tina Turner's version, the "t" sounds pretty hard and she sounds like she says "tane," as in octane. But the whole verse is about working hard and living a tough life so I'm inclined to believe it's about a life of hard work rather than having a lot of sex. Heh.

 

 

Hee, no mention of the drug references? Puff the Magic Dragon was just about a dragon too!

 

Well, sure, LOL... that's what Puff the Magic Dragon was about. But Proud Mary isn't about drugs. It's about a tough life, and then hitching a ride on a riverboat for something potentially better:

 

"Left a good job in the city

Workin' for the man every night and day
And I never saw the point in complainin'
Worryin' 'bout the way things might have been"

 

I'm still really impressed with Nicole's singing, and Tom's marvelously bass voice.

Edited January 29, 2015 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

 

Well, 'Pane, 'tane, pain, even cocaine...but, definitely NOT tang

 

LOL.

 

Either way, poor Ichabod was confused. And if that lyric confuses him, I can only imagine what expression his face would get if he heard "Da Doo Ron Ron" or The Police's "De Doo Doo Doo De Da Da Da (That's All I Want To Say To You)" or Queen's "All we hear is Radio Ga Ga, Radio Goo Goo..." Then Abbie would really get a "What does that even mean?" Heeeeee.

[Watermelon]

The guardian part I got, but Jenny specifically said Carmilla was his godmother.  Since godparents are generally appointed when someone is an infant, that (using my assumptions) would have made her appointed godparent at 8ish.  Which in my experience would be unheard of.

 

Most of this is just nitpicky stuff that strikes me - it really isn't a significant issue. 

Then her character obviously isn't the same age as the actress.  

[jhlipton]

This was probably the best episode of Sleepy Hollow Season 2. Heck, I think it may be my favorite eposodes of the whole series! Thank you to whatever bigwig at Fox knocked some sense into TPTB!

I loved all of the Ichabbie scenes. Jenny got to be a BAMF. Katrina was kept to a minimum. Ill even admit to laughing at her line about Mary Poppins. It was nice to see the scenes between Irving and Cynthia.

Crane singing his sea shanty at karaoke had me rolling! Of course he would be "that guy"! It's a shame they cut to Katrina during Proud Mary. I would have loved to see Abbie dancing like Tina Turner and Crane staring at her like she was nuts.

I agree with this 100%. Are there problems? Definitely. But if they keep going this way, I'm happy.

 

 

I believe that Nicole sang in a movie called My Last Day Without You. The singing in this episode sounded a lot like in that movie, so I am thinking it was her.

 

It's a great film and she does have a wonderful singing voice.

 

... if the fans' patience has been so tested by the Ichabod-Abbie stress they decided it was just better to end it asap, with a whimper.

I, for one, wouldn't be upset with that,

 

 

One the one hand you could figure that she is lying.  On the other, it is Katrina after all.  Her "magic" probably told her he was free. ha!

 

She's not known as StruggleWitch for nothing!

 

I've thought about this, but I just don't think Abbie could EVER get over Jenny's death.

I couldn't get over Jennie's death. If they killed her (or Abbie), I would be done with this show.

 

 

This was a decent ep. I wasn't going to watch but the reaction here made me think it might be safe. 

 

Tom and Nicole play so perfectly off each other, whether it's action, drama or comedy and not just in their words but in their facial expressions. You can tell both actors put a lot of thought into conveying what the characters are thinking but can't/won't say. As much as I don't want them as a couple, (I just imagine how overwrought and torturous that vault scene would've been if they were romantically connected) I wouldn't mind one of them having a fantasy sequence where we see an alternate universe with them as a couple.

 

Some very nice callbacks. Crane loving Mary Poppins (there is part of him that is very much like a child), Abby getting to be a cop again at the pawn shop, Badass Jenny, Crane mentioning that he doesn't like being trapped in small spaces and of course, Katrina being a shady, useless hag. One small correction though, when Abbie mentioned that in Star Wars "they had a robot" I bristled a bit. R2-D2 is an android. That's very different from a robot. ;-)

 

Still, I'm not going to get too excited. This show has taught me that I can't trust it.

 

Very decent -- I was happy. Tom and Nicole are just so far above Katia it's crazy. Lyndie is also better than Katia. Heck, Ich's bow is a better actor than Katia!

 

Her whole interaction with the Irvings was creepy and shady. Not to mention that we're back to her whinging about her son. I would give anything for a new witch. I just keep wanting Willow Rosenberg to show up, toss Katrina through a window with a flick of her wrist and have her say, "Step aside and let a real redhead take care of business."

 

Let Willow go all Warren on her ass!

[marceline]

I feel a lot better about my interpretation of Proud Mary. For a minute I was afraid that I'd been singing the wrong lyrics for years. Much like my friend who thought Purple Haze included the line "Excuse me while I kiss this guy."

Edited January 29, 2015 by marceline

[blixie]

 

Tom and Nicole play so perfectly off each other, whether it's action, drama or comedy and not just in their words but in their facial expressions. You can tell both actors put a lot of thought into conveying what the characters are thinking but can't/won't say. 

 

 

Yup, the one thing Goffman can NOT ruin for me is  how ADORABLE Tom/Nicole are together, especially during Proud Mary, those side long looks, and smiles that they can NOT keep playing over their faces? I honestly feel sorry for Kittens and Puppies, because Tom/Nicole are Too Fucking Cute!

 

I'm bummed to lose Hawley, though for two reasons: 1) I thought he was hot and fun 2) I now fear for Jenny even more. I would prefer to see Jenny AND Hawley being some kid of mobile Team Witness with Jenny checking in the regular and Hawley only a couple of times, but Que Sera!

 

The meta between Abbie/Ichabod was SOOO Awkward, I get that they want to clearly communicate that they know there are issues, but they also are communicating how much they don't get what the issues are because Ichabod is ENTIRELY to blame. ENTIRELY. Abbie is behaving exactly as she should re: him and his betrayals. Own it Ichabod, and beg her forgiveness, otherwise I have no time for your concerns about the bond.

[DeLurker]

The meta between Abbie/Ichabod was SOOO Awkward, I get that they want to clearly communicate that they know there are issues, but they also are communicating how much they don't get what the issues are because Ichabod is ENTIRELY to blame. ENTIRELY. Abbie is behaving exactly as she should re: him and his betrayals. Own it Ichabod, and beg her forgiveness, otherwise I have no time for your concerns about the bond.

I'm sure they had to tie Goffman* to a stake to even get that in.  The characters, the actors and the viewers all deserved for it to be addressed better, but like a starving orphan we're grateful for that one grain of rice.

 

*On the assumption that Goffman is the one primarily to blame for everything.  If not him, than substitute TPTB.

[Nanrad]

2.

It works perfectly that Ichabod didn't understand that line, because it's absolutely filthy and he'd be horrified by what he just said.Why is it filthy? I always assumed that "Pumped a lot of 'tane down in New Orleans" referred to working at a gas station. Am I one of those people who've been singing the wrong lyrics all this time?

1. It works perfectly that Ichabod didn't understand that line, because it's absolutely filthy and he'd be horrified by what he just said.

 

All right, so 2 is a response to 1, but whether or not the line is filthy, which I believe we reached a consensus that it isn't, how would Crane know the difference unless Abbie explained "modern" lingo to him. Even then, I don't think she would've covered the time era in which that song came out. I think he's just genuinely baffled about what he just said.

[Nanrad]

Overall, I enjoyed the episode, but I do agree Ichabbie talk felt too meta and was rushed. I wished this we had seen more signs of this besides two occasions and even within the episode before this talk. Even though it's a relief for Crane to admit his part, it's still mainly on him that they are where they are. I really don't feel as if Abbie should be apologize or even saying that Katrina is right. Though I do believe she does it to keep peace because her facial expression and line delivery says that she doesn't always or mostly agree with what she says, which is a redeeming feature for the storyline. 

 

As far as Carmilla goes, didn't Hawley says it looked as if she stopped aging/hasn't gotten older/looks the same and she's been that monster for about ten years. Depending on her racial background, she could've initially looked younger than her original age before she was turned, and then she just stopped aging altogether. My mother is almost 60 and people think she is in her mid 40s. Also, she had my brother at 18 and when he was in his late 20s/early 30s, they used to think she and him were the same age. I'm 23 and people say I look 16, but because of my personality, it's clear that I'm older than believed.  

[DearEvette]

Some observations on re-watch:

 

- The stuff with Cythia and Frank felt a bit oddly written.  On the one hand Cynthia transmitted discomfort several times.  Right after all the criminal charges were dismissed, they hugged and he said something like 'I can't want to go back home with you and Macy' or something like that.  She looked at him in surprise and then grimaced a little.  Later when they were getting ready for bed, she looked at him nervously again and made a comment about "you coming back here."  At first it made me think that Frank had completely forgotten he was divorced and no longer lived with them and Cythia was suspicious about his memory lapse.  But on the other hand, later she does refer to him as her husband and acted overjoyed when Katrina declared him "clean."  In the earlier scenes it made it seem like there was more wrong with Frank than just the lingering suspicion that he might have  a dirty soul.  But with the last scene it seems that all was forgiven.

 

- The conversation in the vault with Abbie & Ichabod felt awkward, but the right type of awkward.  I know as a fan I wanted Ichabod to admit he let Abbie down over and over again.  But this felt more right, like people who wanted to confront some things but not really ready to go there.  They sounded like they were dancing around stuff.  Maybe I was reading too much but I thought it was interesting how much they both studiously did not mention Katrina as a source of their distance and yet they didn't have to because they both knew it.  Abbie couldn't mention her as one of their issues for obvious reasons and Ichabod wouldn't mention her.  So yeah, not quite as cathartic as I would have wanted as a viewer, but felt about right for the characters.

 

- I think we are supposed to infer that Ichabod has moved back to the cabin in the aftermath of his date night with Katrina and they are working on repairing their marriage.  Which is probably another reason why Ich & Ab  wouldn't bring her up as an issue since he is working things out with his "Witch Wife"

 

- Ichabod and the crossbow.  I am noticing he's carrying and using that more.  I am trying to remember if that is one of his weapons from the Season premiere.

 

- I have been trying to interpret Katrina's expression at the end as well as the puzzle of the no reflection.  Part of the frustration is you don't know if KW's face is supposed to convey something or if the actress is just staring blankly off into the distance.  And the no reflection thing -- another frustration with the show this season is you never know if something is intentional  (Irving had a reflection last week, but not this week) or if it is just continuity error.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DearEvette