S05.E10: House Of Cards

[Sincerely Yours]

Quote
Yes and then you stated that Kyle had a moral obligation to find out what was going to happen and shield Kim from it.  I'm asking you why she has this obligation?

My thing is that if Kyle is going to react the way she does to Kim and her behavior, put herself in a position where she needs to be sympathized with and as the one that has this big burden in her life than yes I do think that Kyle does have some responsibility towards her sister and what situations they go into together. Kyle also acts out in these sort of situations, whether it be a certain amount of anxiety or worry or awkwardness that in effect puts a spotlight on Kim and her struggle with sobriety so I think that Kyle does have an obligation to do her best when it comes to smoothing these sort of details out and taking control over things as they come up. Especially if she is the "organizer" of the event. I mean if Kyle is going to have the reactions she has to Kim then wouldn't it make sense, for her own peace of mind to contribute whatever she can to keeping things from veering off course? The fact that Kyle does in fact run with the whole "woe is me" routine when Kim falls off the wagon aggravates me. I guess it's the level of pain and suffering that we see Kyle express about Kim but then why wouldn't you take the extra precautions for your sisters sake. Hey, I don't think it's Kyle's job. No way no how but the only reason I hold Kyle to certain things is because she has accepted the role whether begrudgingly or not. So if you're gonna milk the martyr angle then by golly step your game up. This wasn't rocket science. Just a small amount of effort and looking into would have revealed the pit falls and even if it wasn't noticed until the last minute there were definitely adjustments that should have been made easily and yes by Kyle. Why not Kyle? She's the one who, besides Kim, is significantly invested in Kim's continued sobriety. Hello it's not just about bashing Kyle because she's not doing a good job being her sisters keeper it's about Kyle doing a poor job having her sisters back when she knows damn well she'll be the first one crying about, being embarrassed by or speaking on how worried she is about Kim. So then, for the things that are within your power to adjust, control, somewhat tweak or downright help correct then why wouldn't you?  And that's my problem with Kyle. No I don't think Kyle is supposed to fix her sisters life for her but it seems like all she does is wait for the mess then "cleans up the mess" and then cry about being the one that has to clean up the mess instead of ummmmm I don't know help keep the mess from happening at all. I don't see a lot of support from Kyle. I see tolerance. Tolerance isn't the same as support. Actually tolerance can be somewhat offensive because there is a superior/inferior implication when it comes to tolerance and for all the tears and the love I do see from the sisters I see more of a tolerance coming from Kyle more than I see a true desire to see Kim through.

[haydensterling]

I'm not sure that I see Kyle acting as a martyr as much as I see her acting as a family member of an addict.  There are all kinds of weird things you do when you have an addict in the family.  You end up acting kind of fucked up too, sometimes.  

 

The distinction may not be huge, but for me it's there.

[GreatKazu]

I agree with zoeysmom and other members with regards to Brandi being to sloppy drunk to care about Kim. Even if she was not drinking, Brandi cares about no one but herself.  I didn't see anything she did that would be considered trying to help Kim out in that moment. The blind leading the blind, for sure.

 

Thank you ryebread for clearing that whole thing up. :)  I also wanted to touch upon your comment about maybe Brandi was not doing the right thing by trying to shuttle Kim out of that mess that she (Kim) created. You are right. Although our instincts are to help people and friends in distress, when it comes to addicts, unless they plan on getting into a car to drive, you pretty much have to let the chips fall where they may. If Kim wanted to stay, it was Eileen's place to decide if Kim should leave. Remember how Brandi took on Taylor when she was a drunken mess at the Malibu beach house? If Kim wanted to leave, then Brandi should allow her to leave and if Kim wanted to have a few choice words to say, then stand back and let her be the fool. You can't protect those who choose to be an addict.

 

CaughtOnTape - agree. Makes postively no sense. I suppose it only makes sense to Kim and Brandi and we know what they are.

 

it seems like all she does is wait for the mess then "cleans up the mess" and then cry about being the one that has to clean up the mess instead of ummmmm I don't know help keep the mess from happening at all.

I agree in part. Kyle should not clean up the mess. Period. Let Kim's life fall apart. Let her lose the house. Let her lose her financial security. Let Kim fall flat on her ass. But then, you know what will happen. The public will want to stone Kyle to death for not helping her sister, for not keeping her from hitting rock bottom, Kyle is rotten to the core for not doing what she can to keep her sister from losing all she has. Al-Anon and therapy taught me to let things fall where they may. It is not our responsibility. We can't fix things for the addict or else they fail to learn the lesson that all that they lost was due to their choice to not seek help. Singer, Madonna, has a brother who is homeless because he is an addict. She has been slammed for not helping him. Not true, she tried to get him help with rehab. He declined. His choice. You can't force people to be clean and sober. They have to acknowledge they have a problem. I do think Kyle and Mauricio are looking out for the real innocent victims in all of this - Kim's children. They are the people that matter.

[ryebread]

Leave the terrible sister, the one with a history of Limo revelations and game night antics once again looking like a raging mean-girl loon. People will buy it because they've seen it all before. 

 

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. (Come to think of it, Kyle really DOES walk like a duck!)

 

I think Brandi was trying to pick a fight with Kyle, seduce Vinnie AND protect Kim.

 

That Brandi, what a little multi-tasker.

[Lola16]

GreatKazu Quote

    

    I would never, ever, EVER comment that Kyle did this wrong or she should have done this versus that. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...those are words that should NOT ever be said to those who are dealing with an addict because no one knows how they will react in any given situation when that addict is at their worst. There is no right or wrong as far as Kyle is concerned. The person at fault is KIM, no one else. Brandi had a hand in that mess last night, but that is because she has her own agenda going on.

 

Obviously Kim is responsible for her own addiction.  That doesn't mean Kyle gets a pass on her behavior or reactions.  People can be empathetic to Kyle for her long standing suffering routine and can understand why she acts/responds the way she does.  Kyle though is also 100% responsible for how she acts or doesn't act in each situation.  Kyle fell into old behaviors of dealing with her sister and it turned out like it always does - a big shit show.  And that is on both Kyle and Kim. Takes two to tango, not just the one who instigates the dance/drama.

 

 

Lola - I don't see Kyle asking for a pass on her reaction or behavior. None. I see her dealing with the realities of dealing with an addict. There is a difference between people choosing not to judge Kyle for her behavior and Kyle painting herself as a victim in all of this and "whoa is me".  I don't hear Kyle commenting she is the victim of all of this mess. I hear a woman who is struggling to deal with an addict and her addict's BFF who has an agenda of her own to dethrone Kyle as Kim's sister and to move in that spot.

You moved the goal post.  I don't see Kyle asking for a pass either.  Your quote which I responded to was saying that no-one should comment on Kyle and what Kyle did or didn't do because it's all on Kim.  In my opinion, Kyle is fair game.  As is Kim.  Also in my opinion, I think Kyle exhibits many qualities of an enabler/fixer - one of which is receiving praise for her efforts in managing Kim.   I think that's part of the old habit that is hard for Kyle to break.  I never used the word victim.  But I stand by long suffering - not because of one scene in one episode, rather all the scenes in all episodes on BH and WWHL.   (BTW, it's Woe is me, unless you're Joey on Blossom :))

 

Meh.  When you're dealing with someone on any kind of substance, they are unpredictable in every way.  The part that sucks about dealing with addicts is that no matter how you engage or don't engage, they're going to engage with you if you're the target of their ire.  Kyle is always in a no win situation.

Poor Kyle, she has no agency of her own?  How terribly tragic.  Is this true only of Kyle or any relative of any addict?  If it's the latter, then I must disagree.  Addicts can only hold you hostage if you let them.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Lola16

[sistermagpie]

My thing is that if Kyle is going to react the way she does to Kim and her behavior, put herself in a position where she needs to be sympathized with and as the one that has this big burden in her life than yes I do think that Kyle does have some responsibility towards her sister and what situations they go into together

 

 

Kyle definitely has a history of being a big martyr and playing up how hard this is for her. But Kyle really wasn't doing it there at all. Her story all along--the same story all the other women seem to agree on--is that she arranged a thing at the hotel and the hotel offered something in the wine tasting room that they all thought was a lunch with different wines paired with courses. When they got there they saw it was literally a tasting with people sitting down and sniffing and tasting wine. 

 

And Kyle did feel badly about this--it left Kim completely out of it. She apologized, she asked Kim if she was okay, she told Kim and other people that she felt bad. Really, a person would probably feel bad about that even they didn't care about the person's sobriety, because you don't want to invite somebody to something that they can't participate in at all--the wine pairing wouldn't have left Kim out. 

 

So she said she felt badly about that and wouldn't have intentionally arranged a thing that was completely about alcohol that Kim couldn't drink. She praised Kim for handling it well, assured her that she knew she was strong enough to do what she needed to do (iow, didn't take the role of the only personal capable of keeping Kim sober, but as a sister apologized for arranging something Kim wouldn't enjoy when she wanted to do the opposite), and that was that. There was no problem with Kim or Kyle at the wine tasting. 

 

Later, at Eileen's, there were huge problems, and it had nothing to do with the venue. Kim got high at home on her own without any alcohol as far as we know. Kyle taking responsibility for where she brought Kim was irrelevent.

[Mozelle]

I think this is at the heart of it for me. On the one hand, I can see Brandi actually working to get Kim out of there, and I do think that is what she was doing. I also think that she wanted to protect Kim. For whatever reason, I actually think she cares about her. Shades of the way she was protective of her in Ojai, I guess.  Although I have no idea why I hold onto this when she was the one talking about the shit-stained pillow.  

 

The problem I have is that I also think she was trying to stir Kyle up. She was active and vicious at the table with Kim. She wasn't just watching Kim go after Kyle, she was going there as well. And she was also trying to get Kim all worked up with the whole "no one knows what you are going through except me", and "I've got your back". If you are concerned about Kim not making a huge deal out of it all, why not try to calm her down with something like "Kyle is just worried about you". This is the part that I don't get. She was so two faced by letting Kyle confide in her during the limo ride and acting like she understood, then almost using that knowledge against Kyle a mere few hours later.  

 

I think Brandi's whole point was to provoke Kyle and look like she was Kim's protector. Maybe she was Kim's protector and she really didn't want to get hurt, but she was more than willing to help get it to a point where Kyle lost control and she was the one who took control of the sister. Leave the terrible sister, the one with a history of Limo revelations and game night antics once again looking like a raging mean-girl loon. People will buy it because they've seen it all before. 

 

It isn't lost of me that this episode brought together for Kyle her two most horrible moments - the first being a situation with a drunk sister and allegations that she didn't protect her, and Game Night. I think it probably all went down about the way Brandi hoped that it would. 

 

See, I don't. I think that Brandi "cares" about Kim only when it's apparent that Kim is sniping at Kyle. I pretty much missed all of last season, so I don't know how Brandi and Kim interacted then, but I remember season three and the reunion. I find it hard to believe that the woman in Ojai who walked with Kim to the bathroom telling her that Kyle wanted her to fail then turned around a year later telling viewers that Kim was out of it and had Yolanda carry her shit-stained pillow is someone who cares about Kim. 

[ryebread]

Brandi isn't the first and won't be the last to have a cast mate as an enemy one season and a bestie the next.

 

Happens on most franchises if not all.

[zoeysmom]

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. (Come to think of it, Kyle really DOES walk like a duck!)

 

I think Brandi was trying to pick a fight with Kyle, seduce Vinnie AND protect Kim.

 

That Brandi, what a little multi-tasker.

LOL Multi tasker.

 

I see a future for Brandi that will often have the word "defendant" after her name.

[LotusFlower]

For me, that cut/cut/cut, stop rolling the cameras was everything. Brandi knew something was up with Kim.  And imo, she wanted to protect Kim and her kids from another embarrassing scene........I likely would have done the same.  If my good friend was about to show her ass in the way that only Bravo can help you show it - yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd've done the same. And I'd chew her ass all the way home.

Another interesting thing about that is how angry Brandi got at Lisa V. a season or two ago about her own lush behavior and Lisa trying to look out for her. In fact, Brandi practically made the criticism of Lisa mothering her a whole damn storyline, at least the basis of why she was angry at her. Come to think of it, that sounds like the beginning of addict behavior - denial, anger at people who point out the problem, turning the tables, etc... This Kim/Brandi alliance is starting to make a lot of sense...

[ryebread]

The fact that Kyle does in fact run with the whole "woe is me" routine when Kim falls off the wagon aggravates me. I guess it's the level of pain and suffering that we see Kyle express about Kim but then why wouldn't you take the extra precautions for your sisters sake. Hey, I don't think it's Kyle's job. No way no how but the only reason I hold Kyle to certain things is because she has accepted the role whether begrudgingly or not.

 

So if you're gonna milk the martyr angle then by golly step your game up.

 

This.  Damn if my attention span isn't short lately, but I read every word of you post.  The first and last sentences of the above quote are like a salve to my soul.  Exactly how I feel.

[RealityTVSmack]

Quote

Yes and then you stated that Kyle had a moral obligation to find out what was going to happen and shield Kim from it.  I'm asking you why she has this obligation?

 

My thing is that if Kyle is going to react the way she does to Kim and her behavior, put herself in a position where she needs to be sympathized with and as the one that has this big burden in her life than yes I do think that Kyle does have some responsibility towards her sister and what situations they go into together. Kyle also acts out in these sort of situations, whether it be a certain amount of anxiety or worry or awkwardness that in effect puts a spotlight on Kim and her struggle with sobriety so I think that Kyle does have an obligation to do her best when it comes to smoothing these sort of details out and taking control over things as they come up. Especially if she is the "organizer" of the event. I mean if Kyle is going to have the reactions she has to Kim then wouldn't it make sense, for her own peace of mind to contribute whatever she can to keeping things from veering off course? The fact that Kyle does in fact run with the whole "woe is me" routine when Kim falls off the wagon aggravates me. I guess it's the level of pain and suffering that we see Kyle express about Kim but then why wouldn't you take the extra precautions for your sisters sake. Hey, I don't think it's Kyle's job. No way no how but the only reason I hold Kyle to certain things is because she has accepted the role whether begrudgingly or not. So if you're gonna milk the martyr angle then by golly step your game up. This wasn't rocket science. Just a small amount of effort and looking into would have revealed the pit falls and even if it wasn't noticed until the last minute there were definitely adjustments that should have been made easily and yes by Kyle. Why not Kyle? She's the one who, besides Kim, is significantly invested in Kim's continued sobriety. Hello it's not just about bashing Kyle because she's not doing a good job being her sisters keeper it's about Kyle doing a poor job having her sisters back when she knows damn well she'll be the first one crying about, being embarrassed by or speaking on how worried she is about Kim. So then, for the things that are within your power to adjust, control, somewhat tweak or downright help correct then why wouldn't you?  And that's my problem with Kyle. No I don't think Kyle is supposed to fix her sisters life for her but it seems like all she does is wait for the mess then "cleans up the mess" and then cry about being the one that has to clean up the mess instead of ummmmm I don't know help keep the mess from happening at all. I don't see a lot of support from Kyle. I see tolerance. Tolerance isn't the same as support. Actually tolerance can be somewhat offensive because there is a superior/inferior implication when it comes to tolerance and for all the tears and the love I do see from the sisters I see more of a tolerance coming from Kyle more than I see a true desire to see Kim through.

Amen...now that is music to my ears...very on point. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by RealityTVSmack

[LotusFlower]

Wasn't there a scene one season that showed one of Kim's kids going to Kyle to deal with Kim? I believe it was about her leaving to stay with her dad in the summer. I got the impression the kids thought it very natural to talk to Aunt Kyle about dealing with their mom. But it would be just like Kim to deny it ever happened.

I remember that scene, too, but Kim was present. They were out to lunch or on a boat or something, talking about a lot of things, and then one of the daughters talked about going to Texas for the summer, where her dad lives. Kim and her neediness was trying to nix it, and Kyle was more supportive, which brought her a bunch of dirty looks from Kim.

[ryebread]

Amen...now that is music to my ears...very on point. 

 

Right?  Music to your ears, salve to my soul. LOL  And who is this SincerelyYours person and was this really only their first post?

 

Welcome, SY

[JennyMominFL]

Protect the  addict, help the addict avoid uncomfortable situations, take care of the addict, get them away from a bad situation etc etc..   Those were all  of the things we were told we ABSOLUTELY should not do in order to help the addict in our family. As I said before, what  we were advised to do in regard to our addict niece,  went almost directly against what our instincts told us to do for her. 

[ryebread]

Another interesting thing about that is how angry Brandi got at Lisa V. a season or two ago about her own lush behavior and Lisa trying to look out for her. In fact, Brandi practically made the criticism of Lisa mothering her a whole damn storyline, at least the basis of why she was angry at her.

 

But the town drunkard, Brandi, doesn't think she has a problem. So no need for Lisa to protect/mother her as far as Brandi's concerned. 

 

Now, Brandi knows Kim is an addict. She even compared herself to Kim in this very episode.  Kim = on the wagon/sober,  Brandi = not.  Her own words.  She wants to protect the addict. I don't see any real evidence of Kim allowing her to, though.

 

Real healthy friendship, that one.

[motorcitymom65]

Quote

Yes and then you stated that Kyle had a moral obligation to find out what was going to happen and shield Kim from it.  I'm asking you why she has this obligation?

I think that Kyle does have an obligation to do her best when it comes to smoothing these sort of details out and taking control over things as they come up. Especially if she is the "organizer" of the event. This wasn't rocket science. Just a small amount of effort and looking into would have revealed the pit falls and even if it wasn't noticed until the last minute there were definitely adjustments that should have been made easily and yes by Kyle.

Maybe I am confused, but was there a weird incident at the tasting? I know that it wasn't what was planned and that everyone checked on Kim to make sure she was OK. I know that she said on the show and in her blog that it was all fine. I know that Kyle felt badly about it. Was there something else I missed while multi-tasking with Candy Crush? This is the event that Kyle planned, yes? I don't remember this being a big huge deal. This sisters were fine afterwards. Maybe closer than ever. I just remember the big drama being at Elaine's event, which Kyle didn't plan. Where Kim showed up wasted. After getting wasted in her own home. With pills she had access too. What am I missing?

[haydensterling]

I just think that unless you've had the exact same life experience as the person you're judging with regards to their behavior and the way they treat a family member who's an addict, it's really tough to have a leg to stand on.  I don't particularly like Kim or Kyle as they're presented to me on the show, but I do feel for Kyle and I hope she's in Al-Anon.  She needs to be in Al-Anon.  Kim is an addict who doesn't appear to be in a twelve-step program, based on what she writes in her blogs.  That's the extent of the serious, for real judging I can do, which is to say not much.  

 

Everything else is extrapolation, and it's a heavily edited show.  Editors write the story on reality shows.   No, you can't be called to the carpet unless you've actually been an asshole, and that's something I can pass judgment on when I see it, like Brandi being...Brandi, nine times out of ten, but I can't definitively say that Kyle is being patronizing/tolerating/hurting her sister's recovery.

Edited January 22, 2015 by haydensterling

[LotusFlower]

But the town drunkard, Brandi, doesn't think she has a problem. So no need for Lisa to protect/mother her as far as Brandi's concerned. 

 

Now, Brandi knows Kim is an addict. She even compared herself to Kim in this very episode.  Kim = on the wagon/sober,  Brandi = not.  Her own words.  She wants to protect the addict. I don't see any real evidence of Kim allowing her to, though.

Right. I knew the situations weren't perfectly analogous, but I still think there's some hypocrisy in Brandi trying to look out for Kim, who's embarrassing herself on camera, and then criticizing Lisa for looking out for her, who's embarrassing herself on camera.

[GreatKazu]

In my opinion, Kyle is fair game.  As is Kim.  Also in my opinion, I think Kyle exhibits many qualities of an enabler/fixer - one of which is receiving praise for her efforts in managing Kim.   I think that's part of the old habit that is hard for Kyle to break.  I never used the word victim.  But I stand by long suffering - not because of one scene in one episode, rather all the scenes in all episodes on BH and WWHL.   (BTW, it's Woe is me, unless you're Joey on Blossom :))

Kyle is indeed fair game. In my haste to comment here - during my lunch break - I had many thoughts and many things I wanted to post, and it seems to have all gotten all smashed together and it reads I was not clear in my thoughts or that I am drunk like Brandi. :)   I apologize. Allow me to clarify. I mean to comment that it is my own personal feeling to not comment that Kyle is doing something wrong with regards to her behavior at poker night and other moments when dealing wtih Kim. I also would not tell someone who is in that kind of situation, what they may have said or done wrong. So, with that said, carry on with the Kyle comments. They are an interesting read. I ain't gonna lie. :) 

 

Oh BTW, the "whoa is me" is an inside joke.. LOL  Stupid, I know. Don't mind me. Just being stupid. :) 

[CaughtOnTape]

Addicts can only hold you hostage if you let them.

 

This is very black and white.

[RealityTVSmack]

Right?  Music to your ears, salve to my soul. LOL  And who is this SincerelyYours person and was this really only their first post?

 

Welcome, SY

Oh my, first post...I thought I died and went to heaven when I read it...thanks SincerelyYours for a well thought out logical approach to answering the question of "moral obligation"  regarding this situation.

Edited January 22, 2015 by RealityTVSmack

[Sincerely Yours]

I don't think it matters what the public thinks. It is what it is. Kyle just needs to decide and make peace with whatever "it is" whether it be cutting Kim off or accepting the fact that she's tied to Kim and her addiction. It sucks either way but how many different ways can we keep revisiting the same old sad story that Kyle is "forced" to live with. We all have our crosses to bear I don't get how many different ways we need to slice what is old news at this point.  I can sympathize of course but at this point the "shock" of what "Kyle has to deal with" has run it's course. Nothing new, nothing unique and nothing more that can be said that hasn't been said before to each other.

[Giselle]

Kyle is in a lose, lose situation when it comes to her addict sister and I believe Kim plays her like a violin. If Kyle doesn't show Kim that she cares enough, Kim plays her as being  heartless and unloving toward her. At the same time If Kyle tries to help Kim, Kim plays it off as Kyle being smothering, controlling. On top of that  Kim probably drops the "You just don't understand, you don't know what I go through' " B.S. bomb regularly, just like she did with Lisa Rina in the ride up to the poker party.

 I'm ok with Kyle outing her sister as an alcoholic on national TV. Kyle has to walk on tip toe through broken glass when it comes to Kim. She's had her fill and put up with years of Kim's B.S. addict behavior. She has been embarrassed by her sister, and dealt with a lot of crap because because of poor Kimmy's addiction.

 

Kim is just a black hole of an emotional addicted mess. Kyle gets a pass.

[Wendy]

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. (Come to think of it, Kyle really DOES walk like a duck!)

 

I think Brandi was trying to pick a fight with Kyle, seduce Vinnie AND protect Kim.

 

That Brandi, what a little multi-tasker.

 

That could easily be applied to Kim, if she talks like a drunk, acts like a drunk , walks like a drunk then she must be drunk.

 

Yet Kim is offended if somebody remotedly even suggests it , so I guess there is double standards to go around.

 

Brandi is not a multitasker, flirting with Vincent is part of second nature to her, she thinks she is all that hot and guys are falling for her everywhere so she flirst with anything and anybody, men or women make no difference for her, protect Kim and fight with Kyle are inherently linked together so she got two for the price of one.

[Lola16]

This is very black and white.

Most people like black and white, except when they want grey.  It's hard sometimes to change habits. The first step is recognizing that it is a habit and that we're in control of it.  The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.  (end of cliches for now)

 

Kyle is in a lose, lose situation when it comes to her addict sister and I believe Kim plays her like a violin. If Kyle doesn't show Kim that she cares enough, Kim plays her as being  heartless and unloving toward her. At the same time If Kyle tries to help Kim, Kim plays it off as Kyle being smothering, controlling. On top of that  Kim probably drops the "You just don't understand, you don't know what I go through' " B.S. bomb regularly, just like she did with Lisa Rina in the ride up to the poker party.

 I'm ok with Kyle outing her sister as an alcoholic on national TV. Kyle has to walk on tip toe through broken glass when it comes to Kim. She's had her fill and put up with years of Kim's B.S. addict behavior. She has been embarrassed by her sister, and dealt with a lot of crap because because of poor Kimmy's addiction.

 

Kim is just a black hole of an emotional addicted mess. Kyle gets a pass.

If Kyle is in a lose lose (and I don't agree that she is), then Kyle should pick the path that is best for Kyle.  Kim's kids are all grown and they all have fathers who are involved in their lives.  Kyle can move on if she chooses.  

 

Kyle isn't Kim's only sister.  Kathy manages to live her life.  Kyle can too.

[ryebread]

I think that Kyle does have an obligation to do her best when it comes to smoothing these sort of details out and taking control over things as they come up. Especially if she is the "organizer" of the event. This wasn't rocket science. Just a small amount of effort and looking into would have revealed the pit falls and even if it wasn't noticed until the last minute there were definitely adjustments that should have been made easily and yes by Kyle.

 

Maybe I am confused, but was there a weird incident at the tasting? I know that it wasn't what was planned and that everyone checked on Kim to make sure she was OK.

 

We were at a restaurant at a resort in the Bahamas. I had made the reservation. We get to the podium.  Unbeknownst to me, all the tables are booths.  Due to a physical limitation, my mom couldn't sit in a booth.  So I arranged another table at a restaurant across the mezzanine so my mom could be comfortable.  I think this is an example of a last minute adjustment to avoid a pitfall.

 

That said, there was no drama at the wine tasting.  However, it was a potential cluster fugazi when after Kyle took care to see that Kim was alright, Lisa Rinna made a grand show and then...did anyone notice Lisa Vanderpump come scurrying up to offer her (fake) concern? 

 

What I took away from Sincerely Yours post is that last minute adjustments could have been made.  Because with this group of bitches, the wine tasting could have turned into one big fat disaster, which I'm thinking Lisa Vanderpump might have rawh-ther enjoyed, darling.

[Satchels of gold]

copacabana every time you ask why this night is different then all the other nights. I want to raise my hand and scream "because it's passover!". But I don't think that's the correct answer.

[Sincerely Yours]

Yup, first post here but I was very active on the TWoP forums. Plus I did spend an unhealthy amount of time on the forums when I didn't have a job so when I went back to work I had only so much time to post. That withdrawl was rough I have to say! LOL.

[Persnickety1]

I honestly don't think Brandi gives a flying fuck about anything or anybody to do with this show (and perhaps even off of it).

 

Brandi cares about Brandi and keeping her gig on this show.

 

And who the fuck died and made her a crew member who can decide when to cut a scene?

 

She's been at this rodeo long enough to know the cast does NOT make those decisions.

 

IMO, it was a meaningless self-serving gesture strictly for the viewers to make it look like she tried to intervene.

 

Fuck this bitch and her shenanigans.  I can only imagine how fabulous this season would be without her...And without Kim.  

Edited January 22, 2015 by Persnickety1

[rubyred]

I agree that Kyle possibly plays into Kim's addiction drama in co-dependent or unproductive ways, but I also think she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. People are always going to have an opinion, judge her, etc-- she's still living down the limo episode. Kim can be as FUBAR as she wants, but god help KYLE if she says it out loud. I would not be at all surprised if she totally hedges on saying the words. Breaking out of the pattern of shielding Kim seems to be a hard habit to break, and it's something that Kim herself has reinforced in Kyle that she should. IMO. I suspect things might have played out differently if things hadn't been moving so fast, only giving Kyle time to react and not think through the best way to deal with things.

 

Someone mentioned upthread that when you're drunk you don't know you're sloppy, and that certainly seems to apply to Kim - her blog shows no shame or embarrassment about being such a rude houseguest. If Kim were sober maybe she'd realize that Brandi is not her friend, and is not to be trusted. I firmly believe that as soon as Kim is of no use to her, Brandi will "out" Kim's secrets to get herself more attention.

[Higgins]

Kyle is in a lose, lose situation when it comes to her addict sister and I believe Kim plays her like a violin. If Kyle doesn't show Kim that she cares enough, Kim plays her as being  heartless and unloving toward her. At the same time If Kyle tries to help Kim, Kim plays it off as Kyle being smothering, controlling. On top of that  Kim probably drops the "You just don't understand, you don't know what I go through' " B.S. bomb regularly, just like she did with Lisa Rina in the ride up to the poker party.

 I'm ok with Kyle outing her sister as an alcoholic on national TV. Kyle has to walk on tip toe through broken glass when it comes to Kim. She's had her fill and put up with years of Kim's B.S. addict behavior. She has been embarrassed by her sister, and dealt with a lot of crap because because of poor Kimmy's addiction.

 

Kim is just a black hole of an emotional addicted mess. Kyle gets a pass.

So accept her for who she is. Draw your boundaries and let it go.

[haydensterling]

Addicts can only hold you hostage if you let them.  They can also hold you hostage if you've lived with their manipulative behavior all your life and are completely stuck in a shit pattern yourself.  Sometimes, they can hold you hostage in conjunction with the bizarre mother who was by all accounts a very peculiar woman w/r/t her daughters.  Or, if you've never really addressed the problem because it's incredibly painful for you, no matter how your actions appear to others.

 

See how this works?  And I don't even like Kyle.

[RealityTVSmack]

Yup, first post here but I was very active on the TWoP forums but after getting warned, banned (I had a few other user names over at TWoP in order to space out the warnings that I couldn't avoid if my life depended on it) and aggressively PM'd by you know who I cut way back on posting. Plus I did spend an unhealthy amount of time on the forums when I didn't have a job so when I went back to work I had only so much time to post. That withdrawl was rough I have to say! LOL.

Sounds like you've become, not only experienced but diplomatic.  Family members on reality shows have long been thought provoking fodder.  Love them or not...there's always something new to learn.

[missyb]

Has anyone pointed out that Brandi, kept in physical contact with Kim after Kim came out of the bathroom meeting ? She had her hand on Kim's elbow almost the entire time. When she was walking her out the door, she still had her hand on Kim and swatted Kyle away with the other.  She made damn sure no one else had a chance to get to Kim. That was weird and obsessive. Her whispering that only she ( Brandi) knew what Kim was going through was creepy and manipulative. She said it as if she was waiting for Kim to nod in agreement and submit to everything Brandi did. In all the seasons of Housewives, Brandi has been the sidekick . She is suing Kim to be the main event. Interesting preview that she lets Yolanda know, you are not the boss of me !

[zoeysmom]

I don't think it matters what the public thinks. It is what it is. Kyle just needs to decide and make peace with whatever "it is" whether it be cutting Kim off or accepting the fact that she's tied to Kim and her addiction. It sucks either way but how many different ways can we keep revisiting the same old sad story that Kyle is "forced" to live with. We all have our crosses to bear I don't get how many different ways we need to slice what is old news at this point.  I can sympathize of course but at this point the "shock" of what "Kyle has to deal with" has run it's course. Nothing new, nothing unique and nothing more that can be said that hasn't been said before to each other.

Kyle is forced to live with Kim in that they are on the same show and Kyle does not have the power or desire to fire Kim.

 

I think Kyle needs to face the fact Kim hates her, always has and always will.  Kyle may be wrong in just tolerating Kim but at least she makes a pretty basic case for loving Kim and her children.  I have never seen anything close to that from Kim. Unless it is Kim giving a teary speech at Farrah's graduation about how important it was to her.  One year Kim was at Kyle's store and Portia didn't even know who she was when Kim tried to hug her. So yes, Kyle needs to stop lying to herself and to the public and face the music-Kim just doesn't care about her.  How many more times is Kim going to need to publicly put Kyle down before she gets it?  When Kim wants to make fun of her with her buddy Brandi, Kyle needs to let it go.  Pretty soon it won't even phase Kyle.  Just drunk Brandi and her buddy making bad jokes and hurting people's feelings.

 

Kyle has a great successful supportive husband four great kids, the love of her nieces and nephews, in-laws and dogs that don't maim.  The last thing she needs is to waste energy on a sister that hates her.

[becauseIsaidso]

Now that I've actually seen the episode, I am completely convinced that the bitchard sisters made a conscious decision to use kim's addiction as a major part of their storyline.  Which is disgusting and sick in ways I can not even begin to articulate. It is one thing for an addict to let their story be known in a cautionary, PSA sort of way, intended to help others recognize, address and (hopefully) overcome their substance abuse issues. There is no possible way to construe this load of shit into something having any socially redeeming qualities.

 

I really have to wonder what kind of an arrogant rat bastard uses their drunken/drugged situation/lifestyle as a means of staying relevant and in the public eye? kim's tagline about having been rich and famous but happiness is better is hypocrisy personified since she is using her obvious lack of any sort of happiness to help her re-achieve 'fame' and 'rich' while giving only shallow lip service to any efforts at sobriety. When, for example, have we ever heard Kim excuse herself from some social obligation so she can attend AA or NA or any other sort of support group? Should that not be a very integral part of a recovering addict's storyline? When has she ever bragged about sobriety milestones? I worked in the SA industry for years and learned early on how to tell the difference between those who are honestly focused on recovery and those who are merely going through the motions and playing the system to get what they need until they can hook up again and go off to la-la-land. The ones who were honest in their desire to achieve sobriety may not have succeeded the first time, the second time or even the twentieth time - but they were unmistakeable in their desire to someday, somehow, be able to live a clean and sober life, and have the tools and support system to help them when they slip - industry statistics says 75% of all addicts relapse - it ain't easy by any means.

 

And what kind of an arrogant rat bastard of a ('sober') sister plays along with such a sick idea, right up to AND including so MANY clues that the other sister is indeed addicted that it can not be ignored?

 

I have as much of a problem with Bravo giving a platform to this behavior as I do to the bullshit going on with the 'stars' of NJ. Which means I won't be watching this show any long either - and that is a major shame as I really like Lisa Rinna and Eileen Davidson on this show - I think the addition of those two is exactly what BH needs to revitalize!

 

Well, no ATL because of rewarded violent behavior, no (potentially) more NJ because of rewarded criminal behavior (I will watch if there are NO more Giudices, but I have to admit that is probably a pipe dream), no more VPR because of Stassi, and now no more BH because of rewarded SA behavior. I guess that leaves Top Chef - at least competition shows don't try to convince us of any BS about any the the participant's private lives - well, no so far.

Edited January 23, 2015 by becauseIsaidso

[haydensterling]

What I took away from Sincerely Yours post is that last minute adjustments could have been made.

 

 

Forgive me for asking this, but who would have done this?  There is a crew there.  There is additional lighting which has been set and rigged.  There are line producers around.  Bravo does not give a hoot about Kim or Kim's condition.  In fact, they are the ones who want to see something big happen, because ratings go up.  

So again.  Who is going to make this 'last minute adjustment'?  

[Lola16]

Addicts can only hold you hostage if you let them.  They can also hold you hostage if you've lived with their manipulative behavior all your life and are completely stuck in a shit pattern yourself.  Sometimes, they can hold you hostage in conjunction with the bizarre mother who was by all accounts a very peculiar woman w/r/t her daughters.  Or, if you've never really addressed the problem because it's incredibly painful for you, no matter how your actions appear to others.

 

See how this works?  And I don't even like Kyle.

I know how it works.  I grew up with an alcoholic.  Been in relationships with addicts.  Best thing for me was when I realized that the change that I could affect was not theirs but mine.  Not easy.  Not flawless.  But possible and life freeing. 

 

Kyle isn't spending all her time babysitting Kim and she shouldn't.  Now that Kim's kids are grown and out of the house, there's less need for her to do it (if she did before).

[LotusFlower]

If Kyle is in a lose lose (and I don't agree that she is), then Kyle should pick the path that is best for Kyle.  Kim's kids are all grown and they all have fathers who are involved in their lives.  Kyle can move on if she chooses.  

 

Kyle isn't Kim's only sister.  Kathy manages to live her life.  Kyle can too.

I agree. Kyle's co-dependent and often enabling relationship with Kim is difficult for her (not to mention difficult to watch), but she also has a relationship with Kim on another front - as a co-star on a reality show. My very Al-Anon-inspired take on it is for her to disengage from the drama, the oft-cited philosophy of how you can't control another person, you can only control how you react to them. But that certainly lowers the drama quotient, from a TV show point of view. They cast sisters for a reason.

[haydensterling]

I know how it works.  I grew up with an alcoholic.  Been in relationships with addicts.  Best thing for me was when I realized that the change that I could affect was not theirs but mine.  Not easy.  Not flawless.  But possible and life freeing. 

 

Kyle isn't spending all her time babysitting Kim and she shouldn't.  Now that Kim's kids are grown and out of the house, there's less need for her to do it (if she did before).

 

Props to you for being at that stage.  Maybe Kyle is not.

[Mozelle]

Brandi isn't the first and won't be the last to have a cast mate as an enemy one season and a bestie the next.

 

Happens on most franchises if not all.

 

Eh. What I'm talking about is how Brandi's "I care so much for you, Kimmmm!"...thing seems specifically tied to when Kim is upset with Kyle. To me it's quite different because of the sibling connection so it feels disingenuous. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by Mozelle

[CaughtOnTape]

I'm confused.

 

I'm hearing that Kyle needs Al-Anon to let go of her need to fix everything for Kim and that Kyle enjoys having to clean up after Kim because it elevates her martyr status.

 

And then I'm hearing the same people comment that Kyle or the hotel or some peeon production assistant who has no clue that Kim is an addict and simply wants to do his/her 8 hours and go home should have made adjustments because God forbid Kim get put in a situation with alcohol that she cannot handle.

 

So....when exactly does Kim's addiction become her problem that she needs to worry about and deal with on her own?

[LotusFlower]

Props to you for being at that stage.  Maybe Kyle is not.

Maybe?!

[Giselle]

Kyle is forced to live with Kim in that they are on the same show and Kyle does not have the power or desire to fire Kim.

 

I think Kyle needs to face the fact Kim hates her, always has and always will.  Kyle may be wrong in just tolerating Kim but at least she makes a pretty basic case for loving Kim and her children.  I have never seen anything close to that from Kim. Unless it is Kim giving a teary speech at Farrah's graduation about how important it was to her.  One year Kim was at Kyle's store and Portia didn't even know who she was when Kim tried to hug her. So yes, Kyle needs to stop lying to herself and to the public and face the music-Kim just doesn't care about her.  How many more times is Kim going to need to publicly put Kyle down before she gets it?  When Kim wants to make fun of her with her buddy Brandi, Kyle needs to let it go.  Pretty soon it won't even phase Kyle.  Just drunk Brandi and her buddy making bad jokes and hurting people's feelings.

 

Kyle has a great successful supportive husband four great kids, the love of her nieces and nephews, in-laws and dogs that don't maim.  The last thing she needs is to waste energy on a sister that hates her.

zoeysmom, you nailed it. YES!

[Lola16]

Forgive me for asking this, but who would have done this?  There is a crew there.  There is additional lighting which has been set and rigged.  There are line producers around.  Bravo does not give a hoot about Kim or Kim's condition.  In fact, they are the ones who want to see something big happen, because ratings go up.  

So again.  Who is going to make this 'last minute adjustment'?  

The spa?  This isn't filmed in real time. Each scene has to be set and staged.  Kyle (since she is the host for the trip, I am mentioning her), could have asked the spa manager to bring food and explained that she thought it was wine with meal and not a straight up wine tasting.   I don't fault her for going with the flow.  It's extra effort and perhaps she was tired of requesting accommodations. 

[rubyred]

Can someone clarify what Kyle did to Brandi to "justify" this whipsaw hatred? One episode they're hiking together, and the next thing I know Brandi is attacking her. (And don't tell me it's concern for Kim.). In Brandi's tortured mind, does she think tearing down Kyle will endear her to Lisa V?!

[Lola16]

Props to you for being at that stage.  Maybe Kyle is not.

I think Kyle has gotten to that stage and I think she has regressed.  Which is natural.  I do stand by my statement that Kyle has agency.  It's her choice if she wants Kim's addiction to hold her hostage.

Can someone clarify what Kyle did to Brandi to "justify" this whipsaw hatred? One episode they're hiking together, and the next thing I know Brandi is attacking her. (And don't tell me it's concern for Kim.). In Brandi's tortured mind, does she think tearing down Kyle will endear her to Lisa V?!

Love of air time?  Hater of happy people? 

I'm confused.

 

I'm hearing that Kyle needs Al-Anon to let go of her need to fix everything for Kim and that Kyle enjoys having to clean up after Kim because it elevates her martyr status.

 

And then I'm hearing the same people comment that Kyle or the hotel or some peeon production assistant who has no clue that Kim is an addict and simply wants to do his/her 8 hours and go home should have made adjustments because God forbid Kim get put in a situation with alcohol that she cannot handle.

 

So....when exactly does Kim's addiction become her problem that she needs to worry about and deal with on her own?

Some people think that if Kyle is going to take on the babysitting and guardian task of Kim, that she should do it fully.  They also might think that Kyle should relieve herself of this self-appointed obligation.  Best way to get Kim to take ownership is to be consistent and let her own it.  Not easy.

 

Personally, I cringe for both Kyle and Kim.

[ryebread]

Now that I've actually seen the episode, I am completely convinced that the bitchard sisters made a conscious decision to use kim's addiction as a major part of their storyline. 

 

I agree.  I can't see it being any other way. 

[rubyred]

Love of air time?  Hater of happy people?

Ha! You're probably right, it's something just that basic. And Brandi is nothing if not basic.