Small Talk: About Big People

[lovetheduns]

12 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

That sounds fascinating and also very difficult! Keep up the good work, I don't think I could do it!

It is honestly not that hard. I think for me I always found that if I ate breakfast it was as if I revved up my hunger - I wanted to eat more and more throughout the day. I would then eat lunch, snack on some nuts or cheese, and then dinner, and then maybe some dessert. 

Whereas now, I don't *feel* that way. Like today, my mom had asked if we could get some fried chicken from a local place (they give you some french fries, with 4 tenderloins, and a biscuit). I also had a donut someone had given me - that was all I ate and even 9 hours later I feel absolutely stuffed. I remember when I could eat SO much more than that. 

[lovetheduns]

9 hours ago, RCharter said:

I think thats a great point.  Jillian Michaels made it her lifestyle, and in the thread that I posted people who lost that weight seemed to have to commit to a lifestyle.   And even now, I have 20 lbs to lose, I was down 15 and gained almost another 3 just for eating thai food on july 4th, missing a few step classes, and going pretty crazy on some hummus and chocolate.

I think the idea of sustained change to lifestyle is super key....and....an attitude that is borderline vigilant.

Absolutely. I don't say I follow a diet, I will eat anything. I don't intentionally go after carbs daily (aka if I had a choice I would choose something other than a starchy carb) but I do not avoid them. I don't avoid anything. I eat them in a controlled portion manner. I am not going to go out and buy a huge muffin but if I did have that I sure as heck wouldn't eat the same size lunch and dinner that I would normally have. People who do some drastic "diet" for the weight loss and then think they can go back to eating the way they did before will pack on pounds super fast. Making a lifestyle change and making healthy choices every single day will keep weight off for a lifetime.

[Snarklepuss]

On 7/9/2016 at 1:35 AM, lovetheduns said:

I don't know if I have metabolic damage but I did have my BMR tested within a lab setting and although the anticipated results based on the various calculators out there had me having a suggested BMR anywhere from 1600-1900 calories a day, my real measured BMR was 1409. If I solely relied on the online calculators I would be potentially be eating at a higher amount daily (combined with my workouts) that I would not be getting a true caloric deficit to lose weight.

One thing that has helped me is the combined research that Dr. Jason Fung has been analyzing and reporting. Basically, I follow an intermittent fasting plan and portion control. I only eat during the hours of 1pm - 8pm - there is at least one day a week where I fast from one dinner to the next (aka almost 24 hours). A "snack" may be an apple but in general I do not snack. I measure portions and I do at least a 45 min workout 5-6 days a week. Basically the idea with intermittent fasting is to open the body stores of fat to be used as energy which keeps the metabolism from not being damaged. Here is a really good article where he addresses the Biggest Loser study.  https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fix-broken-metabolism/ I did find during my BMR test that I am fat burning during fasting so it seems to be working for me. I have also found it has helped to break a lot of my previous food binging issues. My stomach literally can't hold the volume it used to when I would eat almost all day. I don't feel "hungry" because I have two larger meals versus trying to eat smaller bites throughout the day. Once I got used to it, I have a tremendous amount of energy (I actually workout while fasting) and my body is so much better now telling me "hey I am hungry" or "I am really thirsty." 

Wow, this is fascinating.  I have wanted to get my BMR tested because I'm sure it's probably low.  I have read about this intermittent fasting approach and think it could work for me, although my issue since menopause is hunger.  My body is not making it easy on me.  When I do fast I find myself lightheaded and feeling sick.  Perhaps being in the "yellow zone" with blood sugar is doing that, I don't know.   It might actually not be good for me to fast.  I have never had binging issues myself.  I eat what other people would eat on diet and it's not enough to make me lose weight, but the doctors never want me to go below 1200 calories a day.  One thing I am more and more certain of is that I need to find a good endocrinologist. 

[Madding crowd]

Snarklepuss,  I am in the  exact same situation as you. I do have hypothyroidism and I lost 60 pounds a year and a half ago when I joined a gym and my DR upped my thyroid medicine. Now I can't seem to lose anything. I also get light headed and weak if I fast, and like you I have never binged. I think menopause has a lot to do with it. I know I must be overeating but I also know I am not eating thousands of calories a day. It's damn hard to lose weight after 50.

[Barb23]

Thanks to all who have shared their personal stories & struggles & I have learned a lot. 

Madding Crowd - you summed it up well by saying 'It's damn hard to lose weight after 50."  How true, at least for me.

I've been thinking about my eating choices way back in the day. When Mr Barb & I were dating 30+ years ago, we would  stop for a fast food meal or treat after doing something in the evening like mini-golf, shopping, etc. This "snack" meal was in addition to our regular dinners.  Luckily back then we both had a faster metabolism & never gained an ounce. No way we could do that now.  I rarely have a snack after dinner now except for a few cheez-its to take my medicine with.  

[lovetheduns]

9 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Wow, this is fascinating.  I have wanted to get my BMR tested because I'm sure it's probably low.  I have read about this intermittent fasting approach and think it could work for me, although my issue since menopause is hunger.  My body is not making it easy on me.  When I do fast I find myself lightheaded and feeling sick.  Perhaps being in the "yellow zone" with blood sugar is doing that, I don't know.   It might actually not be good for me to fast.  I have never had binging issues myself.  I eat what other people would eat on diet and it's not enough to make me lose weight, but the doctors never want me to go below 1200 calories a day.  One thing I am more and more certain of is that I need to find a good endocrinologist. 

You can usually find gyms, wellness centers, athletic labs, etc who will test BMR. I had mine tested locally at a lab that caters to athlete performance and nutrition (aka registered dietitians work there). I believe it cost $60.00 and took around 30 minutes (about 20 minutes wearing this mask and sitting and just breathing in a darkened room - the mask reminds me of what you see fighter pilots wear so it covered the mouth and nose). I also got a one on one session with the dietitian to talk about results and what maybe I should do differently if anything.

It was well worth the cost since the calculators online are just a smoothed over average for people and not unique to you. Similar to BMI - you can get an approximate from a calculator but if you really want to know your true BMI then a DEXA scan is the most accurate. 

Fasting took probably about a week or so to get used to it. Dr. Jason Fung also mentions you can consume like a bone broth or something with very few calories if you have some issues in adjusting. I personally didn't need to do that except on the rare occasions when I had a coffee with milk.

[kar328]

Chiming in on the BMR and BMI tests - My gym is a wellness center so there's access to one of the machines that tests it. I do it once a year since I've been on my weight loss journey. It involves breathing into a tube for 10 mins with a clamp over your nose. The dietician administers it, I get the results all spelled out nicely as well as the rest of the dietician visit for any specific concerns of mine. I'll do my next one sometime this summer. Last summer, my BMR dropped around 400 points from my only doing cardio, with very little strength training. I got a trainer for a few sessions, learned my way around the weight room and now lift a few times a week, so I'm curious to see what the next test will show. The scale hasn't moved much for me this past year so last month I did a BodPod test at a local university. It's considered the gold standard after a DEXA scan and comparable, if not better, than the one where you go underwater. It was $80, which was the highest I've seen (read $40-50 in online forums for other areas), but highly worth it. It gives you an accurate weight, body fat %, non-muscle mass %, and how many pounds each of those are. They also gave me two projections of what I could get to if I lost 9-12 lbs more. I'll definitely redo the test.

For the record, I'm the same height as Whitney, 5'2", plus at 52, I have 20 years on her. I also have PCOS. My highest weight was 248 lbs when I started this, it was a 2-3X, 22-26 in clothes, so I highly doubt she's fitting into those, even the spandex. PCOS definitely makes weight loss harder, BUT not impossible. I'm down 108 lbs, approx 6 to go. My BMI is just into the overweight category at the moment, at 25 point something, but it was 45.4 to start - morbidly obese class II. The BodPod showed my BF% at 26.8, which shocked me, and the projected goals are for 22%. I remember caliper measurements 7 months into this had me at 44%.

So Whitney's excuses annoy me. Yes, it's hard to lose and easy to gain, much more than for someone without PCOS. But it's possible. I do this with calorie counting with My Fitness Pal, portion control, preplanning my food for the day - not going low carb, but keeping a careful eye on the numbers (PCOS diet is high fat, moderate protein, low carb), lots of water and regular exercise. I'm far from perfect, I just went to NYC and tried to eat my body weight in bagels and pizza and enjoyed every bite. It takes work, but it's not a lifetime of deprivation, nor is it a temporary thing until I reach my goal. Watching the show is a way for me to see what can happen if I backslid and why my quality of life has improved so much in these past 1290 days (My Fitness Pal tracks this). If she wanted to stay the way she is, said as much and made no attempt to appear like she's working on it, I'd have more respect for her than these pathetic failed attempts and excuses.

<climbing off the soapbox and going to log the afternoon snack>

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I know this to be true. I'm very thin and I can't stand myself. I have serious body image issues. I too have been criticized and made fun of. People telling me I have a flat butt, no figure, eat a cheeseburger, etc. Not to mention, the endless Facebook posts about how men prefer curvy women. One of which saying 99% of men prefer curvy women and the other 1% are gay. Songs that say fuck skinny bitches. It makes me upset for my daughter because we are now raising thin women to have more body image issues than they already naturally had. It hurts my feelings and before anyone says that thin women don't get yelled at or made fun of, keep in mind that, yes we do get made fun of and making fun of another group of people doesn't help the plight of your own group or however you categorize yourself. I am not the one who yells and makes fun so why should I have to be hurt? Hurting someone else can't possibly make a person feel better about themselves, right? Maybe I'm wrong about that since I've never tried it. 

Whitney really inspired me at first and then I saw the music videos where she's shoving cupcakes down thin girls' throats. She obviously doesn't care about the rest of us or even like us, so I can't get behind her "no body shame". Fitting how the initials are BS since that's what it is. Bullshit.

This was from the Episode 5 thread, but I'm trying respond in the thread I think it on topic.

I think people have the right to feel any way they want.  But I can't see how being "too skinny" would present the same societal anger that being "too fat" represents.  I think its been much more ingrained in our society that fat is ugly and being skinny is better.  Or that fat means unhealthy, and skinny means healthy (of course, not to the extreme).  If you put a mildly fat person, next to a mildly skinny person, people would think the skinnier person is more attractive and more fit.

Very few people are spending tons of money to get fatter, but many are spending that money to get skinny.

I think the songs about "fuck skinny bitches" are, in their own way, a way of trying to give the middle finger to a system that routinely calls big girls ugly.  I can see your point about how yelling at you isn't going to make someone else feel better, but I do think it brings some awareness to the fact that beautiful women can come in all shapes and sizes.  

I also think that particular song, in its context had a powerful message.  Because big women are societally cowed into feeling ashamed of themselves and how they look, at most "regular" clubs they won't go out on the dance floor because they don't want to be made fun of.  I saw the song as more of a "you're beautiful too, don't let anyone tell you that you can only be pretty if you're skinny! Get out there and dance!"

And even in our culture today, how often are big women really prized.  Supermodels are still rail thin, the majority of music videos still feature skinny women, society still puts a woman on the cover of a magazine and airbrushes her to look skinnier.  If you see an overweight celebrity in the magazine rack, its normally to shame her for putting on a few pounds (National Enquirer Worst Beach Bodies).  But the minute that celebrity loses weight, they are put on the cover of the nearest glam magazine with an article on "how x lost the weight."

Again, this is not to say that skinny women don't have a right to feel a certain way, I just think that because of societal pressure and standards, the discussion may be a little different.

For a long time modern society has embraced the ideal image of the skinny woman, it just hasn't been that way with larger women.

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, RCharter said:

This was from the Episode 5 thread, but I'm trying respond in the thread I think it on topic.

I think people have the right to feel any way they want.  But I can't see how being "too skinny" would present the same societal anger that being "too fat" represents.  I think its been much more ingrained in our society that fat is ugly and being skinny is better.  Or that fat means unhealthy, and skinny means healthy (of course, not to the extreme).  If you put a mildly fat person, next to a mildly skinny person, people would think the skinnier person is more attractive and more fit.

Very few people are spending tons of money to get fatter, but many are spending that money to get skinny.

I think the songs about "fuck skinny bitches" are, in their own way, a way of trying to give the middle finger to a system that routinely calls big girls ugly.  I can see your point about how yelling at you isn't going to make someone else feel better, but I do think it brings some awareness to the fact that beautiful women can come in all shapes and sizes.  

I also think that particular song, in its context had a powerful message.  Because big women are societally cowed into feeling ashamed of themselves and how they look, at most "regular" clubs they won't go out on the dance floor because they don't want to be made fun of.  I saw the song as more of a "you're beautiful too, don't let anyone tell you that you can only be pretty if you're skinny! Get out there and dance!"

And even in our culture today, how often are big women really prized.  Supermodels are still rail thin, the majority of music videos still feature skinny women, society still puts a woman on the cover of a magazine and airbrushes her to look skinnier.  If you see an overweight celebrity in the magazine rack, its normally to shame her for putting on a few pounds (National Enquirer Worst Beach Bodies).  But the minute that celebrity loses weight, they are put on the cover of the nearest glam magazine with an article on "how x lost the weight."

Again, this is not to say that skinny women don't have a right to feel a certain way, I just think that because of societal pressure and standards, the discussion may be a little different.

For a long time modern society has embraced the ideal image of the skinny woman, it just hasn't been that way with larger women.

I don't think people would prefer the skinnier person necessarily. If we're talking mild differences, it comes down to personal preference so that's not really what I'm talking about. Now that women are lifting weights more than just old school aerobic exercise, a thicker physique seems more "fit" to me.

People are actually spending a lot of money on getting fatter in a way by getting implants or redistributing their own fat. Butt implants are becoming what breast implants used to be. Where on your body is it acceptable to be fat is more of the question now. Maybe you don't want your tummy to be fat so you go to the doctor and he takes your tummy fat and plumps your ass with it. Fat is always ok for the butt and boobs. 

I don't see how yelling at skinny women can bring awareness. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but I think we should build eachother up and create awareness that way. I don't think tearing women down by saying fuck the skinny bitches is healthy. I don't think that's what you were saying but I wish the singer would have taken another approach, but oh well. Now is the time to insult skinny people in order to get fat girls to fist pump apparently.

As far as supermodels go, that industry has changed a little for the better, but they have always been unattainable. airbrushing celebrities is a bigger problem I think because girls are falsely led to believe that these are real people just like you and me. No, they're heavily made up and airbrushed, just like you said, but not only to make them look thinner. They photoshop the hell out of them according to whatever is to their liking at the moment. Big butts are the rage and they photoshop thin actresses to look curvier.

Anyway, no body shame is only for fat girls. Everyone else can stay shamed as far as Twit is concerned.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Nowhere

[ClareWalks]

I definitely agree @Nowhere. I have had a BMI of 19 and had a BMI of 30, and I got way more shit from others (male and female) when I was thinner. Nowadays there is a "right way" to be thin, just like there's a right way to be fat. It also seems more acceptable to call someone skinny or a stick, or tell them to eat a sandwich, because they can always claim it was a compliment. It is not a compliment, and it is not flattering or nice. 

[RCharter]

54 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I don't think people would prefer the skinnier person necessarily. If we're talking mild differences, it comes down to personal preference so that's not really what I'm talking about. Now that women are lifting weights more than just old school aerobic exercise, a thicker physique seems more "fit" to me.

People are actually spending a lot of money on getting fatter in a way by getting implants or redistributing their own fat. Butt implants are becoming what breast implants used to be. Where on your body is it acceptable to be fat is more of the question now. Maybe you don't want your tummy to be fat so you go to the doctor and he takes your tummy fat and plumps your ass with it. Fat is always ok for the butt and boobs. 

I don't see how yelling at skinny women can bring awareness. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but I think we should build eachother up and create awareness that way. I don't think tearing women down by saying fuck the skinny bitches is healthy. I don't think that's what you were saying but I wish the singer would have taken another approach, but oh well. Now is the time to insult skinny people in order to get fat girls to fist pump apparently.

As far as supermodels go, that industry has changed a little for the better, but they have always been unattainable. airbrushing celebrities is a bigger problem I think because girls are falsely led to believe that these are real people just like you and me. No, they're heavily made up and airbrushed, just like you said, but not only to make them look thinner. They photoshop the hell out of them according to whatever is to their liking at the moment. Big butts are the rage and they photoshop thin actresses to look curvier.

Anyway, no body shame is only for fat girls. Everyone else can stay shamed as far as Twit is concerned.

I still think people are socially programmed to think that skinny is better.  I think society has shaped personal preference to some degree.

Giant boobs isn't really getting fatter though....nor is just having a waist that 18 inches and butt implants.  I don't even know if that makes the body curvy anymore than I think it just makes people look like two "V's"

I think songs like Anaconda can bring awareness......I mean....society says "fuck you" almost every day to fat people.  If the idea is that the rejection of skinny bodies makes skinny people feel bad, I guess thats maybe what fat people have felt for a long time....like their bodies are rejects and would be better if they were just skinnier.  

I just think that historically, fat girls have probably had more shit thrown their way than skinny women.  And the "eat a cheeseburger" comments I tend to think come from people that are just salty and frustrated that their body may not be as socially acceptable as a skinnier body.

And even still, if a celebrity is airbrushed, they aren't airbrushed to look fatter, they are airbrushed to look skinnier.   Women still starve themselves in the modelling industry and eat cotton balls, because being skinny is the ideal.  I haven't heard of a thin actress being photoshopped to look fatter.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't heard of it.

I do think that no body shame is for everyone....absolutely, no one should be made to feel bad about their body.  But I think the message is probably going to apply a little more sometimes to fat people, because I think....as a society......we really look down on fat people moreso than we do skinny people.

Again, very few women are heading to the gym to gain weight.  They may do weights, but most of that is still in an effort to lose weight, not to gain weight.

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, RCharter said:

I still think people are socially programmed to think that skinny is better.  I think society has shaped personal preference to some degree.

Giant boobs isn't really getting fatter though....nor is just having a waist that 18 inches and butt implants.  I don't even know if that makes the body curvy anymore than I think it just makes people look like two "V's"

I think songs like Anaconda can bring awareness......I mean....society says "fuck you" almost every day to fat people.  If the idea is that the rejection of skinny bodies makes skinny people feel bad, I guess thats maybe what fat people have felt for a long time....like their bodies are rejects and would be better if they were just skinnier.  

I just think that historically, fat girls have probably had more shit thrown their way than skinny women.  And the "eat a cheeseburger" comments I tend to think come from people that are just salty and frustrated that their body may not be as socially acceptable as a skinnier body.

And even still, if a celebrity is airbrushed, they aren't airbrushed to look fatter, they are airbrushed to look skinnier.   Women still starve themselves in the modelling industry and eat cotton balls, because being skinny is the ideal.  I haven't heard of a thin actress being photoshopped to look fatter.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't heard of it.

I do think that no body shame is for everyone....absolutely, no one should be made to feel bad about their body.  But I think the message is probably going to apply a little more sometimes to fat people, because I think....as a society......we really look down on fat people moreso than we do skinny people.

Again, very few women are heading to the gym to gain weight.  They may do weights, but most of that is still in an effort to lose weight, not to gain weight.

Agreed. Society has told us for the past few decades that thinner is better. That is changing now though. Kardashian is now the ideal. 

Yes, fat people have been made to feel bad but that doesn't make it right to keep hating on people. You said that nobody should feel bad about their bodies but before that were you saying it's ok for skinnies to feel bad because that's how fat people have always felt? I don't understand that reasoning. I know that fat people have gotten more shit. Absolutely. I just don't want to add to the shit but that is what's happening.  No body shame should mean don't shame anybody, regardless of their weight or anything else. It's still upsetting to be insulted, told to eat a cheeseburger or lay off cheeseburgers. I think we women should come together against all that shit and not tolerate it at all. We should have each other's backs.

Yeah, they photoshop to add a butt or boobs that I guess I could get by eating a ton of cheeseburgers if that's what everybody thinks will do the trick. Fortunately they have photoshop to add fat to the places it's ok to be fat in.

When bodybuilders go to the gym they go to gain weight. Muscle weight, not fat weight but they want the scale to show weight gain. I was talking more about bodybuilding and heavier, muscular women looking more fit. That's my opinion. Bigger women look healthier to me. I guess that's because I know I'm not that healthy.

I think we agree on most things that matter. I think body shame should stop period. 

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, Nowhere said:

Agreed. Society has told us for the past few decades that thinner is better. That is changing now though. Kardashian is now the ideal. 

Yes, fat people have been made to feel bad but that doesn't make it right to keep hating on people. You said that nobody should feel bad about their bodies but before that were you saying it's ok for skinnies to feel bad because that's how fat people have always felt? I don't understand that reasoning. I know that fat people have gotten more shit. Absolutely. I just don't want to add to the shit but that is what's happening.  No body shame should mean don't shame anybody, regardless of their weight or anything else. It's still upsetting to be insulted, told to eat a cheeseburger or lay off cheeseburgers. I think we women should come together against all that shit and not tolerate it at all. We should have each other's backs.

Yeah, they photoshop to add a butt or boobs that I guess I could get by eating a ton of cheeseburgers if that's what everybody thinks will do the trick. Fortunately they have photoshop to add fat to the places it's ok to be fat in.

When bodybuilders go to the gym they go to gain weight. Muscle weight, not fat weight but they want the scale to show weight gain. I was talking more about bodybuilding and heavier, muscular women looking more fit. That's my opinion. Bigger women look healthier to me. I guess that's because I know I'm not that healthy.

I think we agree on most things that matter. I think body shame should stop period. 

Its funny, I was thinking about this discussion on my way to the supermarket (I know, right?)

And I was thinking that one of the best examples, IMO, of raising up bigger women instead of tearing down skinnier ones was Christina Hendrix in MadMen.

She was, by far, the most beautiful woman on the show.  And she was presented that way.  Every man in the office realized that she was gorgeous.  There were very few men, or women on the show that didn't absolutely think she was beautiful.  She was always in the prettiest outfits.  And she was not skinny, at all.

No other character really had to be put down for Joan (her character) to be beautiful.  She just.....was.  And I think the way she was presented on that show changed some people's POV.  I almost certainly think the show was part of the tidal shift towards finding a more curvy figure acceptable.

I don't think its okay for skinnies to feel bad, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.  I do think that by saying "fuck skinny bitches" it focuses a spotlight on the issue of body image.  Everyone should have the chance to feel good about their body, not just skinny women, and not just fat women.  We should all be in the same boat....but for the most part, its almost always fat people that are in that boat.  Strangely, I think the woman who sang the song would ultimately agree with you that no one should be ashamed, but for years, as a society, we've been okay to make fat people, and most especially fat women feel terrible about themselves.

I guess its just a difference in who we know.  Most of the women I know who lift weight do so as part of a weight loss/toning routine.  I've heard weight training enhances the effects of cardio.  

The other day the trainer told me to do as many pushups as I could in a minute.  I did exactly one....and today my arms/chest feel on fire.  So, I might need to do more weight training myself :)

In closing -- I do want to apologize if I offended you.  I didn't mean to.  I agree, body shaming should stop whether you be skinny or fat.  I think the experience might be a little different, but that certainly doesn't make it right.  I totally understand your anger at the Anaconda song.  I don't feel it, but I guess I would be upset if someone was like "fuck size 8 bitches!"  

[Nowhere]

21 minutes ago, RCharter said:

Its funny, I was thinking about this discussion on my way to the supermarket (I know, right?)

And I was thinking that one of the best examples, IMO, of raising up bigger women instead of tearing down skinnier ones was Christina Hendrix in MadMen.

She was, by far, the most beautiful woman on the show.  And she was presented that way.  Every man in the office realized that she was gorgeous.  There were very few men, or women on the show that didn't absolutely think she was beautiful.  She was always in the prettiest outfits.  And she was not skinny, at all.

No other character really had to be put down for Joan (her character) to be beautiful.  She just.....was.  And I think the way she was presented on that show changed some people's POV.  I almost certainly think the show was part of the tidal shift towards finding a more curvy figure acceptable.

I don't think its okay for skinnies to feel bad, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.  I do think that by saying "fuck skinny bitches" it focuses a spotlight on the issue of body image.  Everyone should have the chance to feel good about their body, not just skinny women, and not just fat women.  We should all be in the same boat....but for the most part, its almost always fat people that are in that boat.  Strangely, I think the woman who sang the song would ultimately agree with you that no one should be ashamed, but for years, as a society, we've been okay to make fat people, and most especially fat women feel terrible about themselves.

I guess its just a difference in who we know.  Most of the women I know who lift weight do so as part of a weight loss/toning routine.  I've heard weight training enhances the effects of cardio.  

The other day the trainer told me to do as many pushups as I could in a minute.  I did exactly one....and today my arms/chest feel on fire.  So, I might need to do more weight training myself :)

In closing -- I do want to apologize if I offended you.  I didn't mean to.  I agree, body shaming should stop whether you be skinny or fat.  I think the experience might be a little different, but that certainly doesn't make it right.  I totally understand your anger at the Anaconda song.  I don't feel it, but I guess I would be upset if someone was like "fuck size 8 bitches!"  

You made me laugh lol. I needed that. Oddly specific raps,  "Fuck those size 8 bitches in the club" "My anaconda don't want none unless you wear a size larger than 8, Hon" 

No, you didn't offend me so no worries and I hope I didn't offend you. I always try to be careful with my words here because it is so easy to misinterpret. However, I will jump to the defense of anybody I feel is being disrespected on this forum. Me and you worked as a team at one time if I remember correctly haha and we usually agree. I think we kept it friendly (I got your back, girl). Nothing wrong with a little debate among friends. Unless it's politics or religion. I've heard we shouldn't go there lol.

Almost forgot, doesn't Mad Men take place in the 60's? That was before skinny was in, right? It probably did do a lot for the curvy female.

It's ashame but I feel like this all comes down to men and what they want. Do you agree with that? People fail to realize that different men love different shapes and sizes. Some love skinny women, some love thick women, some love muscular body builder types, and yes, some love fat women. We can't have them all and why do we care so much that it separates us? We are all different and yet the same. We all want to be appreciated for who we are inside. You know what I'm saying? 

[RCharter]

^^ girl, you're about to get me all verklempt over here!  I wholeheartedly agree.  I am glad to have had the conversation, because I think these conversations are important, for me, in understanding what others go through and that the grass on the other side may not always be as green as I think it is.

And most importantly they remind me to be as kind.

As I'm naturally snarky, it can be tough to remember :)

Edited July 11, 2016 by RCharter

[Nowhere]

23 minutes ago, RCharter said:

^^ girl, you're about to get me all verklempt over here!  I wholeheartedly agree.  I am glad to have had the conversation, because I think these conversations are important, for me, in understanding what others go through and that the grass on the other side may not always be as green as I think it is.

And most importantly they remind me to be as kind.

As I'm naturally snarky, it can be tough to remember :)

I love this video. This girl explains in spoken word poetry what I try to explain but I never find the right words. It's not long and it's sorta funny. I hope everyone will take a listen to the other side of this convo. And I am absolutely not making light of what obese women and men have had to go through.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pePHJ6GeR_I

[ClareWalks]

I know everyone says it, but the media really is 99% of the problem. I get People magazine (free with extra airline miles, I do NOT pay for this garbage) and it is appalling. Every interview with a female celebrity asks about their diet and exercise routine. There is even a feature called "what I eat in a day" where the celeb will list all the things she eats for a nutritionist to RIP APART. I'm talking things like "a banana with breakfast is really high on the glycemic index, she should substitute unsalted kale chips and organic almond butter for a better option." And it's ALWAYS a female celebrity featured on the "what I eat in a day" page. It makes me sick. Plus every feature with pictures is about how much weight they've recently lost or how they plan to lose weight or how they gained weight while pregnant, blah blah blah. They never ask men about it or talk to men about it. Also the magazines WILL critique a celebrity for being too skinny (only if her bones are visible, though), but then if she gains literally 3 pounds they will talk about how fat she got and how she's working with a trainer to lose weight. Calgon, take me away.

[SongbirdHollow]

4 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I love this video. This girl explains in spoken word poetry what I try to explain but I never find the right words. It's not long and it's sorta funny. I hope everyone will take a listen to the other side of this convo. And I am absolutely not making light of what obese women and men have had to go through.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pePHJ6GeR_I

I don't know. If you sub out 'skinny' and 'fat' for 'white' and 'black' you can kind of see how one side will never be able to truly understand what the other goes through. We all see things through the lens of our own experiences and we all feel defensive about something. We could all be kinder to one another, and we could all try harder to "presume innocence" and take things less personally. What someone says about you is less about you and more about them. Their fears, mostly. I really believe in two opposite emotions: love and fear. Every other feeling is a subset of one or the other. Yes, the opposite of love is not hate. It's fear. Think about it.

For example, any criticism of Whit I post is based on my fear of ending up like her. Not because I hate her. It's a constant reassurance to myself that if I got that big, I'd act differently. But deep down I'm afraid I could be like that. So I say she should do this thing or that thing. But it's not really about her, it's about me. Why should I care about her? I don't even know her. She doesn't affect my life in any way. Yet here I am. Weird, huh?

[Nowhere]

4 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I don't know. If you sub out 'skinny' and 'fat' for 'white' and 'black' you can kind of see how one side will never be able to truly understand what the other goes through. We all see things through the lens of our own experiences and we all feel defensive about something. We could all be kinder to one another, and we could all try harder to "presume innocence" and take things less personally. What someone says about you is less about you and more about them. Their fears, mostly. I really believe in two opposite emotions: love and fear. Every other feeling is a subset of one or the other. Yes, the opposite of love is not hate. It's fear. Think about it.

For example, any criticism of Whit I post is based on my fear of ending up like her. Not because I hate her. It's a constant reassurance to myself that if I got that big, I'd act differently. But deep down I'm afraid I could be like that. So I say she should do this thing or that thing. But it's not really about her, it's about me. Why should I care about her? I don't even know her. She doesn't affect my life in any way. Yet here I am. Weird, huh?

You bring up some good points. 

I've been told, and tend to agree, that the opposite of hate is indifference. None of us are indifferent to Whitney but I wouldn't call it hate. I think most people on this forum can't stand that she is destroying herself and she's a 32 yr old spoiled brat. She claims that she's helping people but she isn't even helping herself. She has proven herself to be a bully. I don't dislike her out of fear that I may one day be her. Maybe one day I will be 400 lbs, who knows. But I will NEVER be like her and neither will you. She's a terrible, jealous, entitled, lazy, spoiled brat who treats her parents and friends like shit and won't even read basic literature to educate herself on how fat people can be fabulous by being healthy. She just wants them to "do it with the lights on" and that's her only message. She's a charlatan and that's why I dislike her.

[jacksgirl]

One of the reasons I dislike (or am indifferent) to Whitney and her predecessor Ruby is that for whatever reason in today's celeb conscious world these women have a forum with which they can help others. I loved when Ruby lost weight. I love Whitney dancing and inspiring other large women to be comfortable in their skin. Then, they blow it. Ruby and Whitney have resources other overweight men and women don't and they don't take advantage of the resources to lose more weight and become healthier. Maybe neither want to be a role model or a possible success story, but due to our fascination with them, that is how they are seen. I like stories of people who overcome bad choices or adversity like Britney Spears  and hate most Duggars (except Jana).

Edited July 11, 2016 by jacksgirl

[LocalGovt]

Since you can now see both seasons on Hulu (1 & 2), I decided to watch from the beginning, since I've only watched here and there, and rarely, with the exception of this season, watched full episodes.

So I'm 8 minutes into Season 1, Episode 1. I cannot believe the difference in Whitney, and I don't mean her size, because it looks pretty much the same.  Her attitude.  She's crying in this episode about people looking through her and ignoring her because she's fat (wait till you hit 50! It's funny but you start to get treated like you're invisible then, too. Especially if you're not supermodel material.  People just look right through you. Unless they're related to you, or older than you.  But I mean, like store clerks, etc.)  Anyway, I digress.  She's apparently always had this raw, raunchy sense of humor, and doesn't mind talking about sex in front of her parents.  But I wonder when she made the mental switch to pretending other people's comments or actions didn't affect her?  Seeing her in this episode vs her riding that scooter in the parade are like night and day, as far as her attitude goes.

[lovetheduns]

21 hours ago, RCharter said:

I still think people are socially programmed to think that skinny is better.  I think society has shaped personal preference to some degree.

Giant boobs isn't really getting fatter though....nor is just having a waist that 18 inches and butt implants.  I don't even know if that makes the body curvy anymore than I think it just makes people look like two "V's"

I think songs like Anaconda can bring awareness......I mean....society says "fuck you" almost every day to fat people.  If the idea is that the rejection of skinny bodies makes skinny people feel bad, I guess thats maybe what fat people have felt for a long time....like their bodies are rejects and would be better if they were just skinnier.  

I just think that historically, fat girls have probably had more shit thrown their way than skinny women.  And the "eat a cheeseburger" comments I tend to think come from people that are just salty and frustrated that their body may not be as socially acceptable as a skinnier body.

And even still, if a celebrity is airbrushed, they aren't airbrushed to look fatter, they are airbrushed to look skinnier.   Women still starve themselves in the modelling industry and eat cotton balls, because being skinny is the ideal.  I haven't heard of a thin actress being photoshopped to look fatter.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't heard of it.

I do think that no body shame is for everyone....absolutely, no one should be made to feel bad about their body.  But I think the message is probably going to apply a little more sometimes to fat people, because I think....as a society......we really look down on fat people moreso than we do skinny people.

Again, very few women are heading to the gym to gain weight.  They may do weights, but most of that is still in an effort to lose weight, not to gain weight.

I don't think it is socially programmed as much as it is programmed as a base instinct. People are attracted to healthy looking people. From a heterosexual standpoint at a very instinctual level men are attracted to healthy women who can best procreate. A malnourished female is no more attractive to the average man than a morbidly obese woman - why? because neither one is healthy. I remember the nasty flack that gone thrown to Calista Flockhart during her days of Ally McBeal. People constantly talked about her weight, how she must be anorexic, etc - she did actually admit to going through a bout of anorexia during the filming of that series. 

I think thinner people also get as much comments made to them but I think it is somehow more acceptable. I have a friend who has always been close to underweight her entire life (with no boobs and no butt). She has no eating disorder, she runs A LOT, and yet people have constantly tried to intervene or made very rude comments to her. The same with a previous coworker (although based on my understanding she did have some disordered eating patterns). How many times have people said about models or some actresses to eat a sandwich or a burger?

I go back to being more acceptable to make comments towards the thinner because their lives may NOT be impacted physically as an obese person. Being thin, you are not going to struggle with clothes options (everyone struggled with finding something flattering for their shape but the thin undoubtedly have an easier ability to try MANY more stores than say an obese person), they are not going to get a stink eye on an airplane because they may spill in someone's seat, the doctor may not completely think of weight as one of the first issues with a medical exam.

Going back to the healthy piece, especially with everything we know in the modern society (I say this because maybe in the Amazon or some remote sub-Saharan village there may be people who do not understand long term impacts to health of being way too overweight), someone who is packing on an extra 50+ lbs is not going to appeal to the inner base instinctual preference for healthier. If we completely ignore the comorbidities to obesity that people dislike talking about (heart disease, diabetes, some cancers, nasty things such as pseudo tumorcerebi) and just look at the impacts to joints, you can't hide your head in the sand and pretend that obese individuals present the vision of healthy or if they are "healthy" at this point in time that that "health" will continue onward without any impacts as the person ages. Just like, no one is going to look at for the most part a starving Calista Flockhart in the height of her Ally McBeal days and think she is the vision of health either.

[lovetheduns]

13 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I know everyone says it, but the media really is 99% of the problem. I get People magazine (free with extra airline miles, I do NOT pay for this garbage) and it is appalling. Every interview with a female celebrity asks about their diet and exercise routine. There is even a feature called "what I eat in a day" where the celeb will list all the things she eats for a nutritionist to RIP APART. I'm talking things like "a banana with breakfast is really high on the glycemic index, she should substitute unsalted kale chips and organic almond butter for a better option." And it's ALWAYS a female celebrity featured on the "what I eat in a day" page. It makes me sick. Plus every feature with pictures is about how much weight they've recently lost or how they plan to lose weight or how they gained weight while pregnant, blah blah blah. They never ask men about it or talk to men about it. Also the magazines WILL critique a celebrity for being too skinny (only if her bones are visible, though), but then if she gains literally 3 pounds they will talk about how fat she got and how she's working with a trainer to lose weight. Calgon, take me away.

I think media plays a huge role not in weight as much as painting a very unrealistic view of women and men period. The airbrushing, the smoothing of any cellulite, normal skin rolls, etc. It is all the problem of making people think if I get to almost the underweight BMI i will be as smooth and flawless as Giselle. No, you won't because you don't have the perpetual Photoshop brushes walking with you each step. Even with the plus size models you see such as Tess Holiday the amount of editing to make the photo is unreal. So it happens big or small. And since that is not so obvious, it makes it seem like oh if I eat 2 egg whites a day and work with a trainer then I too can look like Jennifer Anniston.

[QueBueno]

27 minutes ago, lovetheduns said:

I think media plays a huge role not in weight as much as painting a very unrealistic view of women and men period. The airbrushing, the smoothing of any cellulite, normal skin rolls, etc. It is all the problem of making people think if I get to almost the underweight BMI i will be as smooth and flawless as Giselle. No, you won't because you don't have the perpetual Photoshop brushes walking with you each step. Even with the plus size models you see such as Tess Holiday the amount of editing to make the photo is unreal. So it happens big or small. And since that is not so obvious, it makes it seem like oh if I eat 2 egg whites a day and work with a trainer then I too can look like Jennifer Anniston.

I remember an interview with Cindy Crawford where she said "Even I don't wake up looking like Cindy Crawford."

[Brooklynista]

Every time I see there'sa new response posted in the 600 Pound Life thread, I expect to see a post about a crossover with Whitney and Dr. Now.

[AZChristian]

I guess it's safe to assume that Dani Mathers isn't going to become a spokesperson for NBS anytime soon.

Shame on her, by the way.

[Pachengala]

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I guess it's safe to assume that Dani Mathers isn't going to become a spokesperson for NBS anytime soon.

Shame on her, by the way.

My god, that is just so hateful and violative, not to mention probably illegal. And also? Fat-shaming someone at the gym? Like, we're all at the gym for the express purpose of taking care of ourselves and our health. Not that this is ever okay but, I mean, it's not like that woman is pounding Krispy Kremes; she's at the gym!

[RCharter]

18 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I guess it's safe to assume that Dani Mathers isn't going to become a spokesperson for NBS anytime soon.

Shame on her, by the way.

Wow, that is most certainly illegal and I hope the woman sues her.  She didn't "accidentally" post a damn thing.  And even if she did (she didn't) in what universe should she be taking pictures of other naked people at the gym?  Bitch, focus on working out and not on others!

[Brooklynista]

18 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I guess it's safe to assume that Dani Mathers isn't going to become a spokesperson for NBS anytime soon.

Shame on her, by the way.

This is the reason a lot of larger people don't work out. And regular folks for that matter. While by and large most people are focused on their own work outs there's the occasional ass hole who wants to make fun of somebody who isn't as perfect as the asshole thinks they should be.

[RCharter]

43 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

This is the reason a lot of larger people don't work out. And regular folks for that matter. While by and large most people are focused on their own work outs there's the occasional ass hole who wants to make fun of somebody who isn't as perfect as the asshole thinks they should be.

I'm absolutely disgusted by that aspect of it.  For one, the woman was clearly not overweight, she was just older and didn't have a perfect body.  In 30 years, this bitch will be lucky to have the same body.  Second, this woman was in the SHOWER AREA!  In what world is it okay to take a picture of someone in a shower area of the gym?!???  I mean, she wasn't even just in the locker room, but she was clearly in the area where you take a shower.  How is that okay?  And even if this woman was overweight, is she not allowed to take a shower at the gym?  Is she not allowed to be there?  Is the gym only for playboy models?  

I just find the entire thing rageworthy.  I hope she continues to get ripped apart for it.

[M.F. Luder]

She got fired from her radio job and banned from all LA Fitness gyms. Let's hope she also gets sued by this woman.

[RCharter]

19 minutes ago, M.F. Luder said:

She got fired from her radio job and banned from all LA Fitness gyms. Let's hope she also gets sued by this woman.

I hope she sues her too.  Can  you even imagine the horror of someone taking a picture and shaming you while you're at your most vulnerable?  How is that even funny to anyone but the biggest assholes in the world.  Its just disgusting.

[Pachengala]

2 hours ago, M.F. Luder said:

She got fired from her radio job and banned from all LA Fitness gyms. Let's hope she also gets sued by this woman.

And the LAPD is investigating the incident after being contacted by LA Fitness, who released this statement: 

"Our written rules are very clear: Cell phone usage and photography are prohibited in the locker rooms. This is not only our rule, but common decency," a spokesperson for the gym said in a statement. "Her behavior is appalling and puts every member at risk of losing their privacy. Her membership has been permanently revoked, at all our health clubs, and law enforcement has been notified."

Good for them. 

The more I reflect on it, the sadder and more horrified it makes me. If someone posted a picture of me naked in the shower on the internet, I would feel so violated and angry that I would pursue every legal and prosecutorial avenue open to me. It's just so dehumanizing and hateful. Man, I'm really upset about this!

[cynicat]

1 hour ago, Pachengala said:

The more I reflect on it, the sadder and more horrified it makes me. If someone posted a picture of me naked in the shower on the internet, I would feel so violated and angry that I would pursue every legal and prosecutorial avenue open to me. It's just so dehumanizing and hateful. Man, I'm really upset about this!

It makes me think of the Erin Andrews ordeal where a stalker took nude pictures of her in her hotel room.  Some people thought she was overreacting, but I'm sure she felt exactly the same way you described.

[yogi2014L]

On 7/16/2016 at 3:06 PM, Pachengala said:

And the LAPD is investigating the incident after being contacted by LA Fitness, who released this statement: 

"Our written rules are very clear: Cell phone usage and photography are prohibited in the locker rooms. This is not only our rule, but common decency," a spokesperson for the gym said in a statement. "Her behavior is appalling and puts every member at risk of losing their privacy. Her membership has been permanently revoked, at all our health clubs, and law enforcement has been notified."

Good for them. 

The more I reflect on it, the sadder and more horrified it makes me. If someone posted a picture of me naked in the shower on the internet, I would feel so violated and angry that I would pursue every legal and prosecutorial avenue open to me. It's just so dehumanizing and hateful. Man, I'm really upset about this!

This whole thing makes me stabby. She better get sued and charged with voyerism (sorry cant spell)

She deserves every single consequence. This is horrible, mean, bullying evil behavior. She truly is a horrible person. 

The small silver lining is that everyone seems collectively horrified, and she is not going to get off easy for being such a colossal piece of shit. Hopefully seeing how upset everyone is will be some comfort to the poor lady who was violated. :-(

[Snarklepuss]

Well, I have to say that Dani Mathers thing doesn't make me want to rush to join a gym any time soon. I was already trepidatious about joining one just because of little twerps like her.  I don't need that crap in my life.  WTF does she think the body starts to look like as one ages?  The woman in that photo looked a little older so I see this as an age-shaming incident.  Which makes me just as stabby and ballistic as a fat shaming incident would.  My only consolation is that one day her body will start to resemble the woman's in the photo.  It might take 30 years, but trust me, it will happen.  Then she will get her just reward.

[auntjess]

Is liposuction done anymore?
You'd that for a lot of Dr Now's patients, and Whitney's hips, that might be helpful.

[Aw my lahgs]

32 minutes ago, auntjess said:

Is liposuction done anymore?
You'd that for a lot of Dr Now's patients, and Whitney's hips, that might be helpful.

You can only suck so much fat out of someone, sucking out more is dangerous for ones health (too much blood loss and other factors). It's also  very hard on your body and recovery takes weeks and is very painful (your body is inflamed, full of bruises and hurts like hell).

It really is only for aesthetic purposes. Besides, a 600 lbs without one gallon of fat doesn't make much of a difference - it's much easier for them to lose by eating the way dr Now prescribes and staying mobile and active. Also if you have flacid skin and stretch marks, its going to make your skin worse.

[LocalGovt]

On 7/16/2016 at 0:47 PM, Brooklynista said:

This is the reason a lot of larger people don't work out. And regular folks for that matter. While by and large most people are focused on their own work outs there's the occasional ass hole who wants to make fun of somebody who isn't as perfect as the asshole thinks they should be.

If someone truly wants to work out, big or small, they will. Even if they do it at home.  Saying you're not going to work out because someone might make fun of you is just a cop out.  You don't need a gym membership to get healthy at home.  But if you are not inclined to work out, no matter what you have, you're not going to use it. I'm mostly talking to myself here, since I have a treadmill, elliptical and total gym downstairs. But am I on it? No. I'm here reading away. :)

Edited July 20, 2016 by LocalGovt

[Cherrio]

1 hour ago, LocalGovt said:

If someone truly wants to work out, big or small, they will. Even if they do it at home.  Saying you're not going to work out because someone might make fun of you is just a cop out.  You don't need a gym membership to get healthy at home.  But if you are not inclined to work out, no matter what you have, you're not going to use it. I'm mostly talking to myself here, since I have a treadmill, elliptical and total gym downstairs. But am I on it? No. I'm here reading away. :)

ITA

       I worked out for years in my room, barefoot, no fancy stuff, gimmicks or fad books.   Just video workouts and some dumbells. Changed my life both physically and mentally. 

[ClareWalks]

Yeah, I'm a personal trainer and the ONLY reason I have a gym membership is because I am required to have one for work. I never work out on my own at the gym, ever.

[Tosia]

I'm convinced that Whit has hip problems--which is the "BEG" problem.  I watched some of the repeats today, and  the way she walks up or down stairs--one foot at a time until the other foot can meet it on the same step--the bridesmaid walk-- is how I do it now, sometimes cuz my right hip has lost cartilage at age 62--it's been hurting for abt a year at night only.

 I got xrays and a referral for  got PT--from a real doctor. The PT visits  showed  me exercises to do,  and I'm going to an orthopedic surgeon for a more in depth check next week.  No way a body was meant to carry almost 400 lbs.without disabling a person.  Whit is dishonoring her own no bs bizness  all right. 

Frankly,  Whit is my motivation for eating healthy and exercising,  so I don't end up like her--or even close.  

Edited July 21, 2016 by Tosia

[Snarklepuss]

On 7/10/2016 at 10:23 AM, Madding crowd said:

Snarklepuss,  I am in the  exact same situation as you. I do have hypothyroidism and I lost 60 pounds a year and a half ago when I joined a gym and my DR upped my thyroid medicine. Now I can't seem to lose anything. I also get light headed and weak if I fast, and like you I have never binged. I think menopause has a lot to do with it. I know I must be overeating but I also know I am not eating thousands of calories a day. It's damn hard to lose weight after 50.

Been meaning to respond to this.  I just started an online 15 week/15 pound program sponsored by my health plan and company targeted at overweight people who are "at risk" for things like diabetes and high cholesterol, etc. You are matched with others who have similar medical/weight issues and you all share a nutritionist who is very involved and proactive in contacting you privately plus making public posts to the group, encouraging discussion and providing recipes and tips, etc.  It's not a diet per sé, because it doesn't offer a plan for weight loss - It's supposedly being handled individually through the counselor who only offers comments and advice on nutrition, portion size, etc. in response to your meal tracking information.

I've noticed that everyone in the group is over 40, probably over 45, and overweight but not morbidly obese.  There is a mix of men and women.  Of course, the nutritionist is thin, blonde, attractive and probably no more than 30 (don't get me started....).   I call her the "nutri-bot" because she is programmed only to give out diet and exercise advice.  She won't make any comments on medical issues other than "maybe you should talk to your doctor about that".  I could read from that script myself, actually, but again, don't get me started....

Anyway, we have to weigh in every day (the scale is programmed to send our weight to our account so there's no way to cheat on that) plus report every meal and we eat in detail.  We're encouraged to send in photos of our meals although that's not a requirement.  We are also supposed to be getting pedometers soon that will track our daily steps and also send that to our accounts.  Supposedly this program has had a lot of success.

So far, after almost two weeks, most of the women, who I can tell are obviously over 50 from their photos are not losing any weight and already starting to complaining about it on the common chat board.   You can see everyone's progress in the form of a bar graph showing roughly how close to their goal of losing 15 pounds they've come.  Most of the women's bar graphs have not budged past their starting weight, me included, with notable exceptions being from women who have said they are under 50.  And let me tell you, I have been putting my ALL into this, so much so that I have not had as much time for most other things in my life, such as housework and this board.  I have no reason to doubt that the other women aren't trying just as hard.  Meanwhile, the men's bar graphs are all going nuts. 

And meanwhile, it's crickets from the nutri-bot on this, other than to provide encouragement and tell us not to give up.  She's also been giving me some feedback on my diet, but it's so good there's not much she can say except to criticize the 100% stone ground whole wheat mini bagel I have on a lot of mornings.  I know I should have more protein the the a.m. and I will address that.  But otherwise I've been as good as gold.   While the other people on the program are all lamenting having to give up their favorite sugary treats, I already gave all that up 2 years ago.  You'd think the scale would reflect that, but noooo....

I'm beginning to see this all too common scenario as one of those women's issues that isn't getting the attention it deserves from the medical community.  Of course, being post-menopausal and overweight, no one gives a crap about you anymore except to blame you for it or offer well meaning but ultimately misplaced advice.  I have been down this very same road so many times it's getting ridiculous.  And still no one seems to have the answer.  Again, I need that endocrinologist.

Sorry to download like this but it's getting to the point where I don't even like mall walking anymore.  Between the young skinnies walking around shunning you and the male misogynists using me as an outlet for their abuse (another long story for another time) I almost wish I could exercise in a vacuum.  Note that not even a few years ago I didn't feel this way, never did.  My mother started getting upset about it at around my present age and thought I'd never feel similarly, but I do.  I don't think it's all in my head either.  I've always been confident about my appearance.  Unfortunately my house isn't big enough for exercise equipment.  We don't even have a basement.  Thank goodness for the nearby bicycle trail.  Lots of older and heavy people on that and no "looks".

Edited July 21, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Minivanessa]

23 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I know I should have more protein the the a.m. and I will address that.  But otherwise I've been as good as gold.   While the other people on the program are all lamenting having to give up their favorite sugary treats, I already gave all that up 2 years ago.  You'd think the scale would reflect that, but noooo....

I'm beginning to see this all too common scenario as one of those women's issues that isn't getting the attention it deserves from the medical community.  Of course, being post-menopausal and overweight, no one gives a crap about you anymore except to blame you for it or offer well meaning but ultimately misplaced advice.  I have been down this very same road so many times it's getting ridiculous.  And still no one seems to have the answer.  Again, I need that endocrinologist.

Sorry to download like this but it's getting to the point where I don't even like mall walking anymore.  Between the young skinnies walking around shunning you and the male misogynists using me as an outlet for their abuse (another long story for another time) I almost wish I could exercise in a vacuum.  Note that not even a few years ago I didn't feel this way, never did.  My mother started getting upset about it at around my present age and thought I'd never feel similarly, but I do.  I don't think it's all in my head either.  I've always been confident about my appearance.  Unfortunately my house isn't big enough for exercise equipment.  We don't even have a basement.  Thank goodness for the nearby bicycle trail.  Lots of older and heavy people on that and no "looks".

I agree, it's harder to lose weight the older you get, in my experience. And I'm older than you. Sigh. I read the books "Wheat Belly" and "Brain Grain" and have been moving toward a low-carb high-fat diet which seems to be the only thing that even has a chance of working for me. I follow Dr. Davis (the Wheat Belly) author on social media. One of his strong recommendations - along with dumping all grains which I haven't quite managed yet - is to have a really good thyroid test done. I'm convinced, along with you, that the 30 year old nutribots generally don't know squat about the actual metabolic status of post-menopausal women. And, IMO, neither does most of the medical profession, or at least the front line professionals. If I hear "calories in, calories out, it's all a rigid simple formula" from one. more. so-called expert, I'll probably just lose it. Thank goodness my new primary care doc actually works with me to check on symptoms and doesn't just say it's because I'm overweight (which I am, and which I'm sure doesn't help but it also isn't necessarily the cause of everything wrong).

Good luck to us all!

[jacksgirl]

I am over 50, tall and hover around 140. I do exercise and watch what I eat, but was blessed in the gene pool. My parents were both slender and none of my 7 siblings are heavy. Whitney seemed to do ok in that aspect,  her parents are normal weight as in brother, but as a teacher, I get to know whole families and that genetic/birth family factor can be an indicator of who is going to be able to stay slim and who may struggle. 

[Snarklepuss]

33 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I agree, it's harder to lose weight the older you get, in my experience. And I'm older than you. Sigh. I read the books "Wheat Belly" and "Brain Grain" and have been moving toward a low-carb high-fat diet which seems to be the only thing that even has a chance of working for me. I follow Dr. Davis (the Wheat Belly) author on social media. One of his strong recommendations - along with dumping all grains which I haven't quite managed yet - is to have a really good thyroid test done. I'm convinced, along with you, that the 30 year old nutribots generally don't know squat about the actual metabolic status of post-menopausal women. And, IMO, neither does most of the medical profession, or at least the front line professionals. If I hear "calories in, calories out, it's all a rigid simple formula" from one. more. so-called expert, I'll probably just lose it. Thank goodness my new primary care doc actually works with me to check on symptoms and doesn't just say it's because I'm overweight (which I am, and which I'm sure doesn't help but it also isn't necessarily the cause of everything wrong).

Good luck to us all!

I tried the low carb/high fat diet when I gave up sugar, but despite losing 15 lbs. the scale eventually crept back up without changing my eating habits.  I don't want to discourage you - maybe your body will react differently than mine.  I also get stabby when people spew that old diet BS that doesn't apply to me about calories in/out, simple rigid formula.  I now just tell them that maybe my body isn't burning enough calories.  Gee, heaven forbid we blame our bodies for being overweight!  It's assumed that we're all like Whitney and sneaking food in our cars and lying about it.

I have a radical proposal.  How about the reason I'm fat is BECAUSE my body doesn't metabolize sugar and other nutrients properly anymore, not the other way around?   We are so programmed to think elevated sugar is because we're fat and not eating right because the diet industry has a lot of money riding on making us think all we need to do is find the right diet.  Because they certainly don't have anything invested in finding a real solution.  The real solution is complicated and probably not one-size-fits-all.  It's like the kids who ask why can't the oil companies find a way to make money on electric cars instead of oil - It's because they have too much invested in the old technology to let go of it for something that potentially might not make them as much money.  Plus, they just don't want to change.  So we all suffer as a result.  I'm just tired of being blamed for being fat.  I'm photographing all my meals.  I'll gladly sit in isolation so a team of nutribots can inspect every morsel that enters my mouth and every step I take just to prove them all wrong.

[Madding crowd]

2 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Been meaning to respond to this.  I just started an online 15 week/15 pound program sponsored by my health plan and company targeted at overweight people who are "at risk" for things like diabetes and high cholesterol, etc. You are matched with others who have similar medical/weight issues and you all share a nutritionist who is very involved and proactive in contacting you privately plus making public posts to the group, encouraging discussion and providing recipes and tips, etc.  It's not a diet per sé, because it doesn't offer a plan for weight loss - It's supposedly being handled individually through the counselor who only offers comments and advice on nutrition, portion size, etc. in response to your meal tracking information.

I've noticed that everyone in the group is over 40, probably over 45, and overweight but not morbidly obese.  There is a mix of men and women.  Of course, the nutritionist is thin, blonde, attractive and probably no more than 30 (don't get me started....).   I call her the "nutri-bot" because she is programmed only to give out diet and exercise advice.  She won't make any comments on medical issues other than "maybe you should talk to your doctor about that".  I could read from that script myself, actually, but again, don't get me started....

Anyway, we have to weigh in every day (the scale is programmed to send our weight to our account so there's no way to cheat on that) plus report every meal and we eat in detail.  We're encouraged to send in photos of our meals although that's not a requirement.  We are also supposed to be getting pedometers soon that will track our daily steps and also send that to our accounts.  Supposedly this program has had a lot of success.

So far, after almost two weeks, most of the women, who I can tell are obviously over 50 from their photos are not losing any weight and already starting to complaining about it on the common chat board.   You can see everyone's progress in the form of a bar graph showing roughly how close to their goal of losing 15 pounds they've come.  Most of the women's bar graphs have not budged past their starting weight, me included, with notable exceptions being from women who have said they are under 50.  And let me tell you, I have been putting my ALL into this, so much so that I have not had as much time for most other things in my life, such as housework and this board.  I have no reason to doubt that the other women aren't trying just as hard.  Meanwhile, the men's bar graphs are all going nuts. 

And meanwhile, it's crickets from the nutri-bot on this, other than to provide encouragement and tell us not to give up.  She's also been giving me some feedback on my diet, but it's so good there's not much she can say except to criticize the 100% stone ground whole wheat mini bagel I have on a lot of mornings.  I know I should have more protein the the a.m. and I will address that.  But otherwise I've been as good as gold.   While the other people on the program are all lamenting having to give up their favorite sugary treats, I already gave all that up 2 years ago.  You'd think the scale would reflect that, but noooo....

I'm beginning to see this all too common scenario as one of those women's issues that isn't getting the attention it deserves from the medical community.  Of course, being post-menopausal and overweight, no one gives a crap about you anymore except to blame you for it or offer well meaning but ultimately misplaced advice.  I have been down this very same road so many times it's getting ridiculous.  And still no one seems to have the answer.  Again, I need that endocrinologist.

Sorry to download like this but it's getting to the point where I don't even like mall walking anymore.  Between the young skinnies walking around shunning you and the male misogynists using me as an outlet for their abuse (another long story for another time) I almost wish I could exercise in a vacuum.  Note that not even a few years ago I didn't feel this way, never did.  My mother started getting upset about it at around my present age and thought I'd never feel similarly, but I do.  I don't think it's all in my head either.  I've always been confident about my appearance.  Unfortunately my house isn't big enough for exercise equipment.  We don't even have a basement.  Thank goodness for the nearby bicycle trail.  Lots of older and heavy people on that and no "looks".

Sounds like you are doing a lot! I'm backing to losing about 2  pounds a week but I have to work really hard even for that. I work out at a gym, but I have spinal stenosis, four budging disks, and a torn meniscus  so I can only do so much.  Feel very frustrated when I hear things like every fat person loses a ton if they make the slightest effort-no not everyone. I'm about half Whitney's size but I won't get onboard the hate train because I know how hard it is to be fat in society. 

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

Sounds like you are doing a lot! I'm backing to losing about 2  pounds a week but I have to work really hard even for that. I work out at a gym, but I have spinal stenosis, four budging disks, and a torn meniscus  so I can only do so much.  Feel very frustrated when I hear things like every fat person loses a ton if they make the slightest effort-no not everyone. I'm about half Whitney's size but I won't get onboard the hate train because I know how hard it is to be fat in society. 

Wow, that's GREAT!  Any progress is better than no progress even with setbacks.  Even the first time I went on a diet in my 30s I never lost more than a pound a week.  I would be ecstatic to lose 2 pounds a week - I'd gladly endure pain and work hard for that.  Best of luck to you, I hope you succeed.

[lovetheduns]

Due to PCOS I have an endocrinologist so I know with all of my thyroid tests that my thyroid is functioning well. 

What I did pay for our of pocket was having my RMR metabolic rate measured at an athletic lab. Based on my weight, height, and age my predicted RMR was a few hundred points higher than what is reality. I now know my RMR is quite a bit lower than things like Myfitnesspal and other calculators say so I had to re-arrange what I consumed in the day. I also work out with a heart rate monitor so I know the reality of what I really burn at the gym or any other excercises. The machines at the gym and online calorie excercise logs vastly overestimate how many calories I REALLY burn. I.e. I do not burn over 500 calories in a 1/2 hour on the elliptical it is really around half of that. 

I lose weight consistently about a pound a week on average. It is not fast and I have changed a lot more about my eating habits. I practice portion control, intermittent fasting (helps to burn fat reserves) and eating slower (stomach has opportunity for my brain to know I'm full). I don't refuse any type of food but I don't seek out higher carb or higher fat foods either. 

[Madding crowd]

Snarklepuss, thanks for your encouraging comments. My problem is that the 2 pounds a week will change to 1 pound, then 1/2 a pound then nothing. My doctor is one of those people who think the slightest effort should lead to at least 5 pounds a week and that has never been the case with me. I also don't have a good plan for things like going on vacation, to a outdoor festival or to a party at someone's house. If I just drink water and don't eat, I feel self conscious because everyone makes comments and I don't have a good time anyway. If I have a small plate of food and one or two drinks (which I usually do), I immediately gain one or two pounds. If I don't go out and just watch TV all weekend I feel sad that I am missing out on things. I'm a work in progress even at my old age :)