S05.E02: Episode Two

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Robert is left with a difficult decision to make. Mrs Patmore has an idea which might solve everything as Daisy continues to struggle with her studies. Thomas has issues with Baxter, however will his meddling ruin her friendship with Molesley? Rose tries to convince Robert of the positives of a wireless at Downton. Lord Merton continues to pursue Isobel while Mary puts her reputation in danger when Anna is made an accomplice.

 

[Avaleigh]

I enjoyed the episode and thought it was surprisingly funny at different points. I laughed out loud when Robert made the comment about nothing being so ill bred as flirting with another man's dog. Cora basically telling Robert that he's a bore who makes the same jokes over and over again was good too. I laughed when Blake bolted in the middle of his conversation with Mary just as it was getting interesting. He almost seemed freaked out that Mary was being so candid.

 

Tony and Mary are still forced and wooden. 

 

Cora seems interested in the Richard E. Grant character. 

 

I still can't stand Thomas but I did like the goodbye scene with Jimmy. I thought it was nice of Jimmy to make it a point to wish Thomas happiness in all areas of his life. Jimmy has come along way from how he was in the third season. 

 

Mr Drewe needs to clue his wife in. I don't understand why he's willing to upset his own marriage for the sake of Edith when he could still help her and tell his wife the truth. It's not telling the truth that's creating the tense atmosphere. Plus Mrs Drewe thinks that Edith is just bored and wants a real life doll to play with. If she were told the truth she'd know that Edith is serious and in this for the long haul. Now that they've waited and haven't told her the truth it's going to look like they're trying to hide something like an affair.

 

Speaking of lying to spouses, Bates and Anna seem like they do that from time to time out of loyalty to Robert or Mary. Anna felt like she had to lie to Bates to not put him in an uncomfortable position regarding whether or not to tell Robert about Mary's plans with Gillingham. Mary really does expect a lot from Anna.

 

JF really is going to drag out this Baxter story, isn't he? Why?

[Lady Grump]

It's official: I'm fine with Bunting. She knows who she is and she is not afraid to speak her mind. Besides, needed societal change can't happen if people don't have the guts to speak up and get people thinking.

 

Anna is REALLY starting to bother me. She's too much of a goody two-shoes. That said, I really want to see her's and Bate's cottage. Once that is done, they can go away. FAR, FAR away! Glad, however, that she showed some compassion to Thomas. And I was glad to see his vulnerable side a bit this week.

 

I hope Bates hangs.

 

And Bob Crawley can have a heart attack now. Please. So tired of his (and Carson's) elitist musings. Though, I thought it was cute how worried Carson was that he and Mrs. Hughes didn't agree about the memorial. Adorable.

 

Love Mrs. Patmore paying for Daisy's studies. Love their relationship.

 

Thank the lord they got a "wireless." I'm happy for Rose on that front.

 

I wish Edith could just be honest and take Marigold. So frustrating. Laura Carmichael is doing a great job with the storyline.

 

Cora seems interested in the Richard E. Grant character.

 

Yes she does! And the previews for next week look interesting. Ole' V had a Russian lover back in the day? I actually think digging into the "less-than-noble" pasts of some of the "older" characters is a smart move that could prove to be very entertaining -- and dare I say, human and real. After all, nobody is without some skeletons.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Lady Grump

[Dust Bunny]

I found myself doing a lot of sighing in this episode. Nothing really changes. Same substance, different window dressings: inventions, criminal pasts and presents, progress versus tradition...

 

I will say I at least developed a little respect for Bunting. She was good enough to not need to create a fight this time. Though I think that was more out of fatigue of a long day of teaching than graciousness. But it's better than another cringe-inducing dinner scene.

 

Mary and Gillingham = meh/bleh (depending on the scene). I think Blake brings more life out of her, but whatever. I don't have a horse in this race.

 

I do like seeing Daisy's growth. I hope something actually comes of it, and she moves out relatively soon. That would be a happy ending.

 

I don't know. I want to keep watching this show, but I'm finding myself getting increasingly bored. 

 

As for that final scene about the oncoming investigation... stop it, show. Just stop.

[Pogojoco]

This whole Marigold thing is going to blow up so badly. Pig Man was very cheery this episode, it all felt a bit forced. Mrs Pig Man is going to think it's her husband's and Edith's kid. 

 

Blake is so much better with Mary. I loved how he needled her and then said, "Well, goodnight!" when she was just getting into it. There was no passion in the talk with Tony and the "make love all night" stuff, and embracing awkwardly. She needs someone to argue with and then have make up sex. Blake is that man. 

 

Thomas, when he's not being a jerk, is rather sad. There should almost be a whole series, "Closeted Gay Men throughout the Ages." 

 

And sorry, not on board with Bunting yet. Shut up, Bunting. 

 

It was a very funny episode, actually. 

Edited September 29, 2014 by Pogojoco

[CofCinci]

I had a case of the feels during the Thomas/Jimmy goodbye scene.

[purplemouth]

Oh man, I laughed and laughed at Robert's indignant "tell him to stop flirting... with Isis!"

[Eolivet]

So, Mrs. Hughes killed Green, huh? And framed Bates by putting the ticket in his pocket? That's...awesome.

 

(...Or not -- she's probably just upset that Bates might get caught. I like my theory better.)

Edited September 29, 2014 by Eolivet

[ZoloftBlob]

No. Mrs. Hughes is the villain! or the villainess!

[ajsnaves]

I think we need to make this happen.  Mrs. Hughes is really the puppet master pulling all the strings of the great criminal enterprise that is "The Abbey."

 

How long before we learn that the art guy flirting with Isis was really an international art thief, sent by Blake for revenge on being rejected by Mary? Or maybe he will seduce Cora, and she, Anna, and Edith will have to carry him across the house to hid the body, since we are obviously repeating every storyline.

 

I think what this show needs is more crazy capers with Mary and Anna.  Well at least with people who are more interesting than Mary and Anna.

[chocolatine]

Mary really does expect a lot from Anna.

 

 

I thought it was beyond the pale for her to ask Anna to buy the diaphragm, in the village where everyone knows who she is. In those days being seen buying contraception in public could ruin a woman's reputation. Mary should have bought it herself in Liverpool where nobody knows her. 

 

I wish Blake had kissed Mary and made her change her mind about the sex trip with Gillingham. She has so much more chemistry with Blake, but it looks like the show is going the soap opera route of having her sleep with the wrong guy, putting the right guy off before she realizes she made a mistake, etc. Or she will go ahead and marry Gillingham but start seeing Blake on the side.

 

Bunting was less irritating this episode, but I still can't see Tom with her. There must be someone he can relate to who doesn't have such utter disdain for his family.

 

Baxter's secret must be that she stole the jewelry to get an abortion or something equally shameful (for the time), if she's so hell-bent on not telling Cora or Molesley. I'd just be really disappointed if it turned out to be something pseudo-honorable. 

 

Robert being completely oblivious about Richard E. Grant flirting with Cora was too funny. If we're going full soap-opera this season, I hope he walks in on them kissing (or more).

[Llywela]

I really like that the show is making a point of showing the Mrs Drew's point of view, as an adoptive mother - that she has taken in this supposedly orphaned baby as her own, loves her and cares for her, and now resents having this upper class toff come sticking her nose in. I don't doubt that the intention is more to stir up more trouble for Edith further down the line, probably with accusations of an affair - but the point is coming across nonetheless that the adoptive mother has bonded with the child and it isn't fair to disrupt their family. It's a very real complication, even without any suspicions against her husband - who really shouldn't be lying to her about this. I understand why he is and appreciate his efforts to help Edith, but his loyalty to a Crawley should not come at the expense of his own marriage. It's nice to see that he has a flaw, though!

 

I may be in a minority but I like the way Mr Molesley and Baxter's story is playing out - I felt so bad for them both last night.

 

Anna is one of the few people who has always been consistently nice to Thomas - so why does he want to hurt her by going after Bates?

 

The upstairs/downstairs divide was pretty glaring in the scenes where Mary made Anna go buy her contraceptives for her - poor Anna was mortified but all that mattered to Mary was not being seen purchasing such a thing herself, Anna's feelings didn't matter in the slightest. I loved Anna's brief flash of feminist outrage over the shopkeeper's attitude, though!

 

I'm torn over Mary's little trip away with Gillingham. On the one hand, I really want a woman to be able to have the freedom to do what she wants, but on the other hand, I can't help feeling that it's Mary's turn to have something blow up in her face! And Anna didn't, after all, wait around to get the instructions for the diaphragm...

Edited September 29, 2014 by Llywela

[Camera One]

I enjoyed this episode.  I prefer the show when it grounds itself on some historical base, and it did so with the wireless and providing a pretty decent payoff for the issue of where to place the war memorial.  I feel that was a believable event that would have occurred in a small town in the interwar years, which might create some dissenting opinion.  

 

The episode also provided some nice balanced screentime for pretty much all the characters, which was nice.  I liked Carson's reaction to the disagreement with Mrs. Hughes, as well as some good Daisy/Mrs. Patmore material.  I felt badly for Anna at the drugstore, but I liked that she shared her honest opinion with Mary.  I was surprised Anna even got a scene with Thomas... hopefully, he's off mega-villain mode though we had to see him goading Baxter again this week.

 

With the continuing storylines from next week... I enjoyed the Violet/Isobel material much more this week.  The Baxter reveal was long overdue, but I did like the scenes she had with Moseley.  The actors did a good job with that.  

 

At least finally, there's some momentum with the Greene business, and the Edith baby secret.  

 

The pig farmer really handled this poorly.  It didn't look like he even discussed it with the wife.  This is clearly set up for when everything blows up.  

 

Right on cue, last episode Gillingham and this episode, Blake makes a visit.  He seems even more smarmy and arrogant than last season.  

 

Last season, I remembered I liked every other episode rather consistently, and it looks like this pattern is repeating again.  So strange...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I felt terrible for Anna having to buy contraception for Mary. I can't imagine how nerve wracking that must have been for her. If Mary was so set on having Anna buy it for her, she could have at least given her a day off so she could go into another city to buy it so that no one in the village would see her and possibly recognize her.

 

I'm glad that Sarah declined the invitation to dinner. She saw how it went last time, so no need to repeat that scene.

 

I thought it was hilarious that Robert was so offended that someone else would flirt with his dog.

 

Part of me thought it was cute that Carson was so distressed to be at odds with Mrs. Hughes but the other part of me was annoyed because friendship should be based upon always agreeing with each other. You can disagree and still respect the other person's opinion and not be a dick about it.

[Llywela]

I thought it was hilarious that Robert was so offended that someone else would flirt with his dog.

Especially since there was no indication that Bricker had even noticed the dog was in the room, as I recall.

[Eolivet]

it looks like the show is going the soap opera route of having her sleep with the wrong guy, putting the right guy off before she realizes she made a mistake, etc. Or she will go ahead and marry Gillingham but start seeing Blake on the side.

 

Mary's love triangle reminds me of a comment Simon Cowell made a long time ago about the difference between UK and U.S. viewers. He said in the UK, people enjoyed seeing a favorite do well, because he/she was the most qualified and it only made sense to celebrate their success. He said in the U.S., people rooted for the underdog -- they wanted to see a favorite fall, they wanted to see a come-from-behind victory.

 

To that end, I've started seeing Mary's love life as a "Pretty in Pink" situation, with Mary as Andi, Blake as Ducky and Gillingham as Blaine (with the possible option to be James Spader, whose character name I can't remember now). I don't think Fellowes does "triumph of the underdog" stories. Case in point: ...Edith's life for the last five seasons.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Eolivet

[Capricasix]

Gillingham continues to rub me the wrong way. He's smarmy.

ITA with others who have wondered why Mary couldn't have purchased the item herself when she was in Liverpool.

I laughed out loud when Robert made his pronouncement about whatsisface not flirting with Isis :D

[Helena Dax]

 

Anna felt like she had to lie to Bates to not put him in an uncomfortable position regarding whether or not to tell Robert about Mary's plans with Gillingham.

 

I thought it was beyond the pale for her to ask Anna to buy the diaphragm, in the village where everyone knows who she is. In those days being seen buying contraception in public could ruin a woman's reputation.

 

I agree that Mary had no right to ask Anna that favour, but I also think Anna has no right to tell Bates about lady Mary, it isn't Bate's business. She isn't supposed to explain her husband what Mary's doing with her own life, quite the contrary. And as a married woman, Anne's reputation was quite safe. 

 

Lady Mary + Gillingham = the most boring illicit affaire ever.

 

When Carson was telling Mrs. Huges  he doesn't like when they disagree, my brain was hearing "I love so much, you're the world to me".

 

My favourite moment was when they were listening to the radio and lady Violet suddenly realized it was the King and stood up and everybody else followed her XD Their faces were hilarious.

[bybrandy]

I always, always, always enjoy Violet and Isobel and did here, too.  Althought, the story of Isobel's many suitors is dragging.   

 

I really feel genuinely kind of terrible for Mrs. Drewe.   She adopted that baby in good faith and now her husband is not listening to her and insisting that they can't give the child  enough.  Which, knowing the whole story, I feel bad for Edith, really.   But I think Mrs. Drewe is getting the really bad end of that stick because nobody respects her enough to just tell her whats going on.  

 

Also, those other three Drewe kids must be feeling like the poor relations when the rich lady only dotes on Marigold.   

 

I loathe the name Marigold.  

 

I do not believe for an instant that Edith wouldn't have gone up to try to save the photo from under her pillow the instant she was allowed back in the house.  I know it was left so Anna and Mrs. Hughes can put two and two together, but really Edith would have gone to find the photo, not to keep the staff from finding out anything but because it is the most precious thing she owns. 

 

I like that school is going well for Daisy.   I still don't love Sarah Bunting.  But I do like that she's brought Tom around to thinking about Tom and who Tom wants to be.

 

Robert totally loves Isis more than he loves his wife and daughters.   It isn't even close.  

 

I really thought last week that it was implied that Anna wasn't eager to get pregnant so I just assumed she was already on the birth control.    Confused now.   Did she get rid of an unwanted pregnancy with Green and now can't conceive?  Is she not having relations with Bates?   Are they just infertile?   So confused.

 

I loved Mrs. Hughes and Carson.

 

I don't care about Mosely or Baxter.

 

I did like Anna being nice to Thomas.   And I kind of like the idea of them becoming friends.   I suspect Bates will kill him and then would the family turn on Bates then?   They have never seemed to mind him killing anybody before... and they do keep not quite firing Thomas...    But if Bates Kill him he won't be able to periodically save the day, and Bates has never been able to do that.... hmmm.   

 

Loved Violet standing for the king and everybody being shamed into doing it.

 

I like that Rose was excited to hear the Jazz, nice call back.  

 

I wish I cared about Mary and her suitors, I really do.

[Capricasix]

I really feel genuinely kind of terrible for Mrs. Drewe. She adopted that baby in good faith and now her husband is not listening to her and insisting that they can't give the child enough. Which, knowing the whole story, I feel bad for Edith, really. But I think Mrs. Drewe is getting the really bad end of that stick because nobody respects her enough to just tell her whats going on.

I agree.

[jester]

I may be in a minority but I like the way Mr Molesley and Baxter's story is playing out - I felt so bad for them both last night.

 

I'm right there with you. I think Kevin Doyle's Mr. Mosely  has always been the underappreciated performance on this show. It's hard to embue a sad sack with real weight and nobility. His expression and quiver of his voice when Baxter was recounting her story was just beautifully done, while still trying to process some hope and respect for someone he obviously has grown to care for.

[NotBothered]

While this season is not really anything to write home about, I'm generally enjoying it again.  I could be that I'm a sucker for a triangle.

 

This was the first episode I actually disliked Tony.  His whole speech to Mary in the hotel gave me the creeps.

 

I am loving the Isobel/Violet dynamic this season.  Turns out Violet is even funnier when she doesn't have all the power in the room.

[ZulaMay]

I am glad I am not the only one who was bothered by Mary making Anna buy birth control.  Because she really did MAKE her do it.  I doubt such things were considered part of a Ladies' Maids official duties, although it wouldn't be surprising if they were sometimes asked to do it.  But Mary really did not give her a choice. It wasn't a request, but a directive.  Of course she put it nicely, but she basically said:  "I'm sorry, but I am going to need you to do this for me."  And Anna was clearly very uncomfortable with the idea and resisting.  Anna has been so loyal to Mary and I was surprised she was not more sensitive to Anna's feelings about it.

 

Tony was the one pushing for the Sex Week, so why not just tell him to do it?  A man could buy french letters and no one would blink.  Given how practiced and smooth he seemed to be about the arrangement, I assume he would have been okay with taking care of that himself.

 

And yes, Tony was too smooth by half for me.  That guy makes me uncomfortable.  Also they have no chemistry IMO and his "we will make love like horny monkeys all night until the dawn" line was gag-worthy.  The whole thing felt clinical and that line at the end just jumped out at me and sounded ridiculous.

 

Mary's line to Edith at breakfast about being an idiot was bitchy as Hell, given Edith was admitting fault and beating herself up about it.  But of course Mary has to land a vicious kick herself.  Typical.  It's not like she was still upset and in a state over her son's safety.  No, she was over it and happily planning her sex week.  Ugh, I wish she would not be such a cow all the time to her sister.  

 

I can't say I give a damn which guy she chooses, other than for my own sake.  I think Blake is more interesting so I'd prefer him to Tony.

 

Baxter......I like her but God that storyline is boring.

 

Bunting was so much better this week.  I want her gone but she served a good purpose in putting some steel back in Tom's spine.  He totally got the last word with Robert at dinner.  Which shouldn't be surprising given what a dumbass Robert is being in general.   Oh, man, did I want to shake him when he was banging on about how he wouldn't let Tom take Sybbie away from them.  Sybbie, the grandchild he didn't want to interact with because she "can't answer back yet" and calls him Donk.  Sorry, Robert, Sybbie has it right.  You are a Donk.  That word should have been invented to describe you.

 

As if Tom would ever let Robert stop him from taking his daughter.  Who the Hell does Robert think he is?  

[ZoloftBlob]

And yes, Tony was too smooth by half for me.  That guy makes me uncomfortable.  Also they have no chemistry IMO and his "we will make love like horny monkeys all night until the dawn" line was gag-worthy.  The whole thing felt clinical and that line at the end just jumped out at me and sounded ridiculous.

 

You know, its stuff like this that really makes me wish someone could pay Dan Stevens enough to come back just to appear as "HeadMatthew" (like how Number Six kept appearing to Baltar in Battlestar Galactica) just so someone was making shitty comments to Mary over sex week and her harem.

 

Mary really needs Matthew's ghost judging her hump of the day. :)

[abbyzenn]

The more I see Edith the more she annoys me.  She's so selfish she can't see what she is doing to Mrs. Drewe and for that matter the whole Drewe family.  Obviously (well not to Edith), Mrs. Drewe is not comfortable with Edith's actions and I can't blame her.  She has adopted Marigold and therefore is her mother.   I feel sorry for the other "poor" children of the Drewes.  Will Marigold have lavish gifts and clothes while they get nothing?  It will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

 

It was a nice way to work in Sarah in the story - working with Daisy.  The conversation between Tom and Sarah when he walked her to the car is the first time I thought he actually looked comfortable in her presence - and that includes scenes from last year.  She was astute enough not to come to dinner.  Tom is definitely not interested in her romantically - if so he'd have lied and said it was his idea to invite her or atleast say he'd like her to come up for dinner.

 

I don't care or like the Baxter/Thomas/Mosely story line.  Hope it doesn't last all season.

 

I find something off about Tony and can't put my finger on what it is.  I don't think Mary needs to jump into bed with him yet  - couldn't they do a bit more "courting" first?  They really haven't spent much time alone at all.

[NorthstarATL]

 

Tony was the one pushing for the Sex Week, so why not just tell him to do it?  A man could buy french letters and no one would blink.  Given how practiced and smooth he seemed to be about the arrangement, I assume he would have been okay with taking care of that himself.

I'm with Mary on this. You DON'T rely upon someone else when it comes to birth control! Their investment may not be as long term as they make it seem. Yours is (see:Edith) By the same token, you do NOT rely upon your maid, if not for exactly the same reason. Anna may indeed be married, but in some religions artificial birth control is/was still frowned upon. Anna should have put her foot down. I think she has exactly enough power in that relationship to do so. After all, if Mary wanted her sacked, Anna could always explan what she had been asked to do.

 

   I don't like Bunting, but I know that a good teacher CAN make you understand material that frustrated you before. It's hard to believe that she has that much patience, given what we've seen of the rest of her personality.

      I was amused as well by Violet's automatic response to the King's voice! And Jimmy's "I'm sad to see the back of you", because I am twelve. (The scene was heartwarming. I want to like Tom, and perhaps I will again if they resolve the Baxter business.)

 

Also, those other three Drewe kids must be feeling like the poor relations when the rich lady only dotes on Marigold.

I know, right? I can see why closed adoptions were a thing for so long! Marigold (I agree, awful name, more likely to occur in the hippie era!) will never have the opportunity at a normal life bonding with her adoptive family if she is treated differently. Wait til the playdates with George and Sybbie while the other kids slop the pigs!

[kpw801]

Mixed feelings about Edith and Marigold and the whole baby situation.  If I were Edith I would have gone to America to have my baby and then come up with a plausible reason to bring the child back and care for it.  I know Mrs. Drew is uncomfortable but we have to remember Edith has NEVER had anything or anyone that she loved be hers.  Patrick Crawley, Matthew, Anthony Strallen and now Michael Gregson have all either chosen Mary over her, jilted her (publicly at the altar) or just disappeared.  Marigold is her flesh and blood and she is extremely lonely.  Horrible situation but I understand her motivations.

 

Mary and Gillingham.  I think he is after her money.  He specifically asked about Downton's finances when he met Charles Blake the first time at the abbey.  He is dishonorable.  Matthew would have never asked her to do what he is asking.  Mary might have been thinking it but a gentleman wouldn't have asked her that.  This is just a way to trick her into marriage.  She will feel too guilty to turn him down now and he could rub her nose in this misstep.

 

I think he killed his valet.  He pointedly kept saying he didn't like him and he acted very strange when Bates mentioned to him how strange it was that he died so quickly after their last visit.  I like Molsley and his gallantry.  Hate Bunting.

[panthergirl13]

Anna totally should have told Mary to fry ice re the diaphragm. After all, she also knows about Mr. Pamook!! 

 

Now, how's this for a theory: Two people (Anna and Blake) separately used the term "Good Luck" to Mary re Tony Gillingham. And he also blew off Mr. Bates when he tried to engage in conversation about Mr. Green last week. SO..... I'm thinking Tony is a murderer and HE killed his valet, for reasons unknown other than I need this relationship between the two of them to be not. boring.

 

I liked this week better than last, though. 

kpw801 I totally just said the same thing re Tony!!!

[ZulaMay]

I feel for Mrs. Drewe in this situation, for sure, but I feel for Edith too.  Everyone has good intentions with regard to Marigold, everyone loves her.  And IMO there is a way for Edith to be part of her life and be a godmother/benefactor without anyone having her heart broken.  But until Drewe and Edith come clean with his wife it's not going to work.  

 

If Mrs. Drewe knew Edith was Marigold's mother, than she wouldn't worry about Edith dropping her like a hot potato or trying to tear her from the arms of her adoptive family.  I think as a doting mother herself she would understand Edith's desire to be part of her daughter's life.  As for her being treated differently to the other kids?  That wasn't as unusual as it sounds.  It was common for children to be placed with foster/adoptive families but have "benefactors",  particularly if said child was an orphan as Marigold is. 

 

And often even within biological families one child could have advantages over the others.  Jane Austen's brother was officially adopted by a relative who was wealthier and could provide him more advantages.  You need only look at the Crawley family to know that some chiidren got more attention and advantages than others.  And since in this case Marigold is an adopted orphan, it wouldn't seem so odd or unfair to their own kids who are very well-loved and doing well anyway.  It's not a case of their mother doting on one kid and ignoring another (sound familiar?), but an outsider taking an interest in an adopted child, which is not the same thing.

 

They are also older than Marigold (the youngest looked about 6), which changes the dynamic a lot.  And Mrs. Drewe didn't express concern for them:  I think she is confident in her abilities to take care of her own kids' emotional needs and make them understand the situation.  She is worried about Marigold, that she will be treated as a toy to be discarded or torn away from her adoptive family.  If she knew Edith was her mother then she would understand and trust her motives and not have to fear for Marigold's well-being.

 

But again, they need to tell her.  I like Drewe a lot but I think he is being a bit bossy with his wife TBH.  I know, it's 1924 and he's the man of the house but he's been more sensitive to Edith than he has to her.  At least with regard to this.  Am I wrong in thinking this?

Edited September 29, 2014 by ZulaMay

[kpw801]

Nice scene between Jimmy and Thomas.  Is there more coming between Anna and Thomas? Seemed foreshadowy. If that's a word.

 

If Blake marries Mary he's a dummy. She is cold as ice, imperial, and forcing Anna to the pharmacy was ugly and selfish. She just ordered her, as though Anna's reputation could be sacrificed willy nilly, but not Mary's. I have disliked Mary since the beginning. I was Gillingham all the way but the tide is turning with me I like Charles Blake better. And he's better off without Mary.

 

Bunting can leave any time. DISlike.  

 

If Robert is sore about his oldest granddaughter potentially being taken from their home to go to America, I wonder how he's going to treat the pig man when he realized the pig man concealed his youngest grandchild from him.

 

I am not really following this Violet versus Isobel banter. Is it because it's confusing or boring?

 

I don't think Mary is cold with Blake.  He brought her out of her icy facade.  They totally had fun watering the pigs, having a mud fight and then bonding over her home cooked egg scramble.  He can bring out the best in her like Matthew did.  I hope she finds out about Gillingham soon.  I think he is Baaaad news!

[DeepRunner]

Nice scene between Jimmy and Thomas.  Is there more coming between Anna and Thomas? Seemed foreshadowy. If that's a word.

 

 

Anna has reached out to Thomas before, in S3 when Sybil died. But she harbors a dim view of him. I think it is in Anna's nature to be kind to others while not thinking of them favorably.

[Glade]

I thought this episode was really tired.  The only things I'm interested in seeing are being held at the end of a very long pole, and may not get there for years.  Instead, we have dreary life at Downton headed over by the bloated, pompous right wing Robert who can't keep his mouth shut for five minutes and dissaproves of everything Edith does, says, and everyone that she tries to marry.  He can barely even look at her without trying to roll his eyes.  If I was her, I'd also do anything I could to get the hell out of that house; it's too bad that she didn't have a relatives who could help get her out of there a long time ago, like Rose did.  Speaking of which, Rosamund has slipped back into her black hole again, which is a shame. 

 

I wanted to see an exciting murder mystery that would have Carlyle as a prime suspect back in S3, but recycling ALL of Bates' past plotlines now it just a letdown, and I really don't care about Greene.  He must have died years ago by now... Anna suddenly does look a lot older, with makeup-wrinkles and thin, dry, whispy hair, and halfhearted sentiments for Thomas, who it seems isn't really trying to find a boyfriend.  

[Camera One]

If Mrs. Drewe knew Edith was Marigold's mother, than she wouldn't worry about Edith dropping her like a hot potato or trying to tear her from the arms of her adoptive family.  I think as a doting mother herself she would understand Edith's desire to be part of her daughter's life.  As for her being treated differently to the other kids?  That wasn't as unusual as it sounds.  It was common for children to be placed with foster/adoptive families but have "benefactors",  particularly if said child was an orphan as Marigold is.

 

I don't like how this is played, since Mrs. Drewe also thinks that Edith has a crush on her husband.  So some of the concern for Marigold being dropped like a plaything down the line is mixed with anger and jealousy.  Mr. Drewe needs to tell his wife the truth pronto since there are enough complications in the whole arrangement without that extra soap-operaish element which makes this uncomfortable to watch.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Camera One

[Lady Grump]

Thomas, who it seems isn't really trying to find a boyfriend.  

 

 

LOL! This gave me a chuckle.

 

But, I mean, back then -- could he, really? I feel like Lord O'Reilly, err, Grantham would kick him out the minute he knew that Thomas was actually pursuing a love interest. Sure, Bob stuck up for Thomas that one time; but he seems like one of those dude's who is all, "I'm fine with Thomas' sexuality, so long as he doesn't actually ACT on it."

 

And YES, please, Edith MUST take down her father in the end. PLEASE! If Edith ends this season a sad sack still, I'm out. (Not really, because I'm addicted to NIght Time Soaps....)

[ZulaMay]

I am so with you on Carson.  When did he turn into such an asshole?  Moseley asks if he gets to be First Footman and Carson stares him down and growls "You are First.....and LAST."  Why the Hell is that necessary?  Give the poor dog a bone, for God's sake.  He's a loyal employee and frankly they're lucky to have him at all.

 

Carson has just turned into an abusive boss and a contemptuous prick in general.  I am sick to death of his disapproving scowl and pathetic need to cling to the lower rung of the social ladder so pompous morons like Robert and inbred twits like the King can stay on top. He just needs to die and take Robert with him.  Then Mary will lose her worshippers (two of them) and Edith will finally get rid of at least one of her tormenters.

[Andorra]

I'm glad I'm so completeley uninterested in Mary's love life, since I seriously don't think any of the "love stories" is going anywhere. Fellows has his faults as a writer, but he was always able to build romantic couples. This time neither of the suggested couples work. Blake is giving up too easily and not really interested in Mary enough to be shipped and Tony and Mary are just AWKWARD!

 

I don't think Tony is sinister or with a hidden agenda. I think he is in honest puppy love, but Mary will get tired of him faster than you can say Liverpool. And Blake won't prove to be "the one" either.

 

After 2 years it should be clear whom she loves, even if she herself was not able to see it. But the AUDIENCE should see it. And the audience should yell at the screen if she's going too much into the wrong direction! Instead there are a few Gillingham shippers who find Blake horrible and a few Blake shippers who find Gillingham creepy. And a lot of viewers like me who think the whole thing terribly boring!

 

So my prediction is both suitors are not the real thing and they're only there to give Mary some time, so that she doesn't marry too quickly after Matthew's death. Pretty much the same as it happened with Tom, who got first Edna and now Bunting and both were clearly not intended as "endgame".

 

The question remains: Who will be their endgame??

 

I liked the episode very much btw. I laughed out loud a few times about Robert! My favourite parts were all with him this week, which is very rare. He was hilarious in his hate for the "tiny teapot Rosa Luxemburg" Sarah Bunting and then in the bedroom scene when he accused Simon Bricker of flirting with Isis? That was too funny, especially Cora's face, LOL.

 

I liked it that Tom stood up to Robert at the dinner table and not once again just rolled his eyes and held his tongue. I like their difficult father/son relationship right now.

 

I also liked to see that Sarah Bunting is wrong when she says the people of Downton are all "prejudiced and narrow minded". It showed in this episode that it is only Robert who is narrow minded, all other members of the family are very supportive and open when it comes to Tom. I loved it when Cora told him "This is your home!" and I also loved it that Rose and Mary showed how much they care about him when they talked to Blake.

[kpw801]

ITA with the person who said that Robert always disapproves of everything Edith does.  I think it started with the Anthony Strallan business.  If they had left her alone she would be married and probably have her own child by now.  Strallan loved her but he was scared off by her negative family.  Then she had the opportunity to start writing and he poo poo'd the whole thing.  He never read her letter and just decided they only wanted Edith because of her title (read connection to him).  Then when Gregson showed up he was extremely rude to him until he saved his bacon by winning his money back for him.  The remark he made about Edith making the Drewes sick with her presence almost reflects his own attitude toward her.  No wonder she finds it so hard to give up her child!  

 

They act like Mary is the Queen of All that is good and true, when she has done more to damage the family and her own reputation than Edith ever could have until Marigold's birth.  She created a huge problem with the Permook business and practically ruined Bates indirectly by giving his ex-wife the material to black mail him with.  She has way less good judgment than Edith does.  She has allowed herself to be seduced once again and actually used her own name when she checked in to the hotel.  If the previews for the next episode are any indication, the word has already beaten her back to the abbey.  

I thought this episode was really tired.  The only things I'm interested in seeing are being held at the end of a very long pole, and may not get there for years.  Instead, we have dreary life at Downton headed over by the bloated, pompous right wing Robert who can't keep his mouth shut for five minutes and dissaproves of everything Edith does, says, and everyone that she tries to marry.  He can barely even look at her without trying to roll his eyes.  If I was her, I'd also do anything I could to get the hell out of that house; it's too bad that she didn't have a relatives who could help get her out of there a long time ago, like Rose did.  Speaking of which, Rosamund has slipped back into her black hole again, which is a shame. 

 

I wanted to see an exciting murder mystery that would have Carlyle as a prime suspect back in S3, but recycling ALL of Bates' past plotlines now it just a letdown, and I really don't care about Greene.  He must have died years ago by now... Anna suddenly does look a lot older, with makeup-wrinkles and thin, dry, whispy hair, and halfhearted sentiments for Thomas, who it seems isn't really trying to find a boyfriend.  

 

 

I'm glad I'm so completeley uninterested in Mary's love life, since I seriously don't think any of the "love stories" is going anywhere. Fellows has his faults as a writer, but he was always able to build romantic couples. This time neither of the suggested couples work. Blake is giving up too easily and not really interested in Mary enough to be shipped and Tony and Mary are just AWKWARD!

 

I don't think Tony is sinister or with a hidden agenda. I think he is in honest puppy love, but Mary will get tired of him faster than you can say Liverpool. And Blake won't prove to be "the one" either.

 

After 2 years it should be clear whom she loves, even if she herself was not able to see it. But the AUDIENCE should see it. And the audience should yell at the screen if she's going too much into the wrong direction! Instead there are a few Gillingham shippers who find Blake horrible and a few Blake shippers who find Gillingham creepy. And a lot of viewers like me who think the whole thing terribly boring!

 

So my prediction is both suitors are not the real thing and they're only there to give Mary some time, so that she doesn't marry too quickly after Matthew's death. Pretty much the same as it happened with Tom, who got first Edna and now Bunting and both were clearly not intended as "endgame".

 

The question remains: Who will be their endgame??

 

I liked the episode very much btw. I laughed out loud a few times about Robert! My favourite parts were all with him this week, which is very rare. He was hilarious in his hate for the "tiny teapot Rosa Luxemburg" Sarah Bunting and then in the bedroom scene when he accused Simon Bricker of flirting with Isis? That was too funny, especially Cora's face, LOL.

 

I liked it that Tom stood up to Robert at the dinner table and not once again just rolled his eyes and held his tongue. I like their difficult father/son relationship right now.

 

I also liked to see that Sarah Bunting is wrong when she says the people of Downton are all "prejudiced and narrow minded". It showed in this episode that it is only Robert who is narrow minded, all other members of the family are very supportive and open when it comes to Tom. I loved it when Cora told him "This is your home!" and I also loved it that Rose and Mary showed how much they care about him when they talked to Blake.

I think that Tony is sinister.  If you recorded the episode look again at the scene where he tells Mary the best way to lie.  I hate that.  He said the best way to lie is to make it as truthful as possible.  So, I believe he was lying when he said he loved Mary and that she fills his brain.  I think he loves Mary's money.

[kpw801]

I am so with you on Carson.  When did he turn into such an asshole?  Moseley asks if he gets to be First Footman and Carson stares him down and growls "You are First.....and LAST."  Why the Hell is that necessary?  Give the poor dog a bone, for God's sake.  He's a loyal employee and frankly they're lucky to have him at all.

 

Carson has just turned into an abusive boss and a contemptuous prick in general.  I am sick to death of his disapproving scowl and pathetic need to cling to the lower rung of the social ladder so pompous morons like Robert and inbred twits like the King can stay on top. He just needs to die and take Robert with him.  Then Mary will lose her worshippers (two of them) and Edith will finally get rid of at least one of her tormenters.

ITA.  The only thing Molsley did to Carson was that he didn't jump at the footman job when offered to him like a hungry puppy.  Can you blame him?  He was a bit ungracious but he has had a lot to put up with and Carson should have understood it was way more.  From the moment Molsley got to Downton he was treated badly.  First Matthew was mean to him and would not allow him to do his job properly and tried to fire him just to keep his life simple.  Then he refused to take him as a valet when he wed Mary and they almost gave the job to Alfred who certainly was not as qualified as Molsley.  He is a very loyal and devoted employee who is unappreciated.  The actor who portrays Molsley is really good and I hope they give Molsley something else to do.  When he had a chance at a job with Lady Shackleton, Spratt sabotaged that.  I know what it feels like to have every piece of hope snatched away from you.  Molsley deserves better treatment than he receives from Carson.  Daisy wondered why people were leaving service to go work in shops and factories and this is why.  Life in service seemed to totally suck.

[ZulaMay]

I agree they treat Mary like her shit doesn't stink, but it doesn't bother me because of the Pamuk thing.  Yes, it was reckless but she was young and stupid.  We all make mistakes.  Yes, she caused a lot of trouble for people but its natural for her parents to want to protect and forgive her.

 

What DOES bother me is that they treat her like a goddess for no other reason than her beauty.  What else recommends her over Edith?  She is more socially poised and confident, but that's because of her looks and social status AND being praised her entire life.  She isn't particularly accomplished, nice, warm or helpful.  She doesn't light up a room and bring joy to people like Sybil did.  She has always been prone to dissatisfaction, irritability, entitlement and self-absorption.  She was a demanding, spoiled pain in the arse in S1.

 

Edith might not have Mary's looks or poise but she would be a LOT more confident if they had treated her as they should have.  She tries to be helpful, to learn new things; she's accomplished and attractive (certainly reasonably so).  She actually has a great figure, better than Mary's.  She did act out of bitterness in S1 and can be a sad sack but she has completely legitimate reasons for doing so, just as she has reasons for resenting Mary.  Mary on the other hand has been given every advantage and has no excuse for being so nasty to her sister or for being butthurt every time things don't go exactly as she wants them to.  

 

That's why it bugs me.  Not only does she not deserve to be treated better, she doesn't even merit it IMO.  Sybil was much better company in general and Edith at least can carry on a conversation about something other than herself, her love life and Downton. She's also not a manipulative narcissist who uses and discards people.

[ZoloftBlob]

First Matthew was mean to him and would not allow him to do his job properly and tried to fire him just to keep his life simple.  Then he refused to take him as a valet when he wed Mary and they almost gave the job to Alfred who certainly was not as qualified as Molsley.

 

I'll defend Matthew on this one in that Matthew never wanted a valet and considered it unnecessary to have a servant whose entire job is basically to dress him when it's something he'd been managing without assistance. That Matthew kept him as a valet has more to do with Matthew feeling sorry for him than it did Matthew actually needing help with tying his own tie, and it was a scene meant to highlight the reality that all the servants jobs were soon to become superfluous. As much as Robert whinged on about it, the reality is that the day of the massive estate with the houseful of servants was passing and the conflict between Moseley and Matthew never had the ugly highhanded nastiness of say, Cora and O'Brien.

 

Mosely as a character, and its hard to call him that because he's really a caricature of the bumbling idiot at this point - has never to me been a likeable character in part because of his woe is me attitude. 

[Avaleigh]

They act like Mary is the Queen of All that is good and true, when she has done more to damage the family and her own reputation than Edith ever could have until Marigold's birth.  She created a huge problem with the Permook business and practically ruined Bates indirectly by giving his ex-wife the material to black mail him with.  She has way less good judgment than Edith does.  She has allowed herself to be seduced once again and actually used her own name when she checked in to the hotel.  If the previews for the next episode are any indication, the word has already beaten her back to the abbey.

IMO Edith is the one who did damage to the family by putting the information out there in the first place. Mrs Bates wouldn't even have had the information had it not been for Edith passing it on. Evelyn Napier found out about it all because of Edith's letter as did Richard Carlisle. If Edith hadn't decided that she wanted to permanently ruin her sister's life and bring scandal onto the entire family, the story of Mary and Pamuk would have died the same night/morning Pamuk did.

 

Edith might not have Mary's looks or poise but she would be a LOT more confident if they had treated her as they should have.

Cora has always been loving and encouraging with Edith. I disagree and think it sucks that Cora is constantly lumped in with Robert when it comes to having supposedly treated Edith badly. Family members Violet and Rosamund have also been supportive of Edith. Sybil too when she was alive. I can see examples where Robert might have been more encouraging or flattering but I'll never agree with the idea that he's this ogre who has been terrorizing poor innocent Edith all of her life. Nor do I agree that Mary has to be torn down in order to show what an awesome character Edith is. It isn't a contest and I can honestly say that there have been moments when all three sisters have given life to a room or have been funny, kind, and fun to be around. We've seen Mary on numerous occasions carry on conversations that aren't focused on herself. And anyway I don't think that Edith is any less self absorbed than Mary truth be told. I think they are very similar and I don't think that Edith is any more deserving of happiness than Mary. For whatever reason, the many advantages that Edith has been given in life are conveniently forgotten or ignored and I wonder why this is. Does it boil down to the fact that her character never been married? I certainly don't believe that marriage is the end all and I don't think it's impossible for Edith to have a happy life even if she never ends up getting married. I feel like it's a myth that Edith has been mistreated by her entire family all of this time. I think she generally gives as good as she gets when it comes to Mary and I don't think that Robert not having the sense to appreciate some of Edith's better qualities necessarily means that she's been horribly treated by him.

 

She doesn't light up a room and bring joy to people like Sybil did.  She has always been prone to dissatisfaction, irritability, entitlement and self-absorption.  She was a demanding, spoiled pain in the arse in S1.

I feel like this easily describes Edith as well and think both of the sisters have been capable of giving this vibe. She certainly wasn't a joy to be around in this episode and she didn't bring any positive life to the party. I'm not saying she needed to or should have, obviously she's going through huge, understandable issues right now, but the reason that people don't get where she's coming from and why they aren't trying to make her feel better is because she's made the decision to keep nearly everyone in the dark about her troubles. At the end of the day that's on her. She made that choice and I think it's unfair of her to get upset with people for not understanding what she's going through when she hasn't even given them a clue. There's no reason on Earth IMO that she shouldn't be able to confide in her mother especially since she knows that her mother helped cover up Mary's Pamuk situation. Cora has given no reason or indication whatsoever that she wouldn't be helpful to Edith if Edith needed her help. She never gave her mother the chance to be of assistance and that was Edith's choice. Edith was certain that Violet wouldn't understand but Violet was loving, discreet, and supportive. What reason does Edith have to think that her mother would kick her to the curb over this situation? Edith also didn't want to tell Violet and thought she'd be judged harshly and she was wrong. I think it's too bad that the reactions of Violet and Rosamund didn't make Edith consider that maybe she could get some similar support from her mother. I just don't get it.

 

I honestly feel like Edith is to blame for a lot of her own unhappiness and I think this is particularly true when it comes to the messy situation involving Anthony Strallan. Strallan seemed very uncomfortable when Edith kept going on about making him her life's project and wanting to dedicate herself to caring for him and that translated to him and others of Edith being a kind of glorified nurse maid. Strallan felt like Edith would be wasting herself and I think this was the main deal breaker at the end of the day. Tom had opposition from all sides but it didn't make him drop Sybil at the altar. He was willing to go for it and was hopeful that relations could be improved in time or was fine with severing ties altogether. Strallan had acceptance from Cora so in that sense he even had an advantage over Tom. Edith's sisters and their husbands would have been supportive too. Strallan had enough support from Edith's family and I honestly don't think they're the primary reason he didn't go through with the marriage. I think too that at least it seems that Edith has not at all blamed Robert or Violet for how that all turned out. 

 

Edited for clarification.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Avaleigh

[NumberCruncher]

I can't get too worked up over how Carson treated Moseley because it goes right along with what we've always known about Moseley--no matter how hard he tries to bring a little luck and/or importance to himself, he has always gotten shut down.  That's been his lot in life.  I know it might sound strange of me to say, but one of the reasons I love Moseley is because his situations, while usually unfortunate, end up providing some much-needed levity as he stumbles his way through them.  I find his character oddly hopeful because he doesn't let his bad luck at, well, everything, deter him from trying again or trying to better himself.  I'm glad that he has a chance at some real love with Baxter, if he can only work through his freak out over her past thievery.

[Glade]

 

 

LOL! This gave me a chuckle.

 

But, I mean, back then -- could he, really? I feel like Lord O'Reilly, err, Grantham would kick him out the minute he knew that Thomas was actually pursuing a love interest. Sure, Bob stuck up for Thomas that one time; but he seems like one of those dude's who is all, "I'm fine with Thomas' sexuality, so long as he doesn't actually ACT on it."

 

And YES, please, Edith MUST take down her father in the end. PLEASE! If Edith ends this season a sad sack still, I'm out. (Not really, because I'm addicted to NIght Time Soaps....)

 

But I really think there must be some young man in Rippin or in the village that he could have a tryst with.  Or, since we're supposed to beleive that Bates could travel to London, track down Greene and kill him, then make it back to Downton all in one day between the gongs, then certainly Thomas could do the same, and peruse the underground gay scene there for a few hours.  I just don't buy that his only chance was the footmen or getting a job with the duke. Undoubtedly it would have to be discrete (because that's how the gay community survived for centuries), but I still don't see it as that hopeless.  I'd love to see a storyline where Thomas explored some possible avenues.  I'd hate to see him weighed down by fear and shame for the rest of his life.

[ZulaMay]

avaleigh, I never said Edith deserved to be happy more than Mary does.  I said she deserves it just as much.  And also that Mary doesn't deserve to get all of the attention and praise while Edith is sidelined.  As far as marriage and love being important to happiness?  Mary was highly (almost exclusively) focused on it for all of S2, more so than either Edith or Sybil who were heavily involved with the hospital.  And Matthew was barely cold in his grave before she started to get interested in Tony.   Marriage and love are important to both of them.

 

So why should Edith not want it just as much?  No marriage meant no sex, no children (not legitimate ones), no position.  It is perfectly natural to want that in your life.  She has nothing to answer for when it comes to that.  And she HAS tried to find fulfillment in other ways:  through her hospital work, her writing, and now her daughter.

 

As for Pamuk, Mary can NOT get a pass on what she did just because Edith wrote that letter.  Of course what Edith did was wrong, but to say everything would have been "just fine" if not for Edith is painting Mary as a victim instead of an active participant in her own problems.  Daisy saw them carrying the body, don't forget.  The word of what happened had other ways of spreading.  The fact is:  the story originated with Mary's actions, not Edith's.  She bears most of the blame for what happened.

 

And Edith is not complaining that no one is paying attention to her problems.  She has not complained to anyone once in the past two episodes.  She's just been sad and preoccupied.  She isn't blaming anyone else for it, and in fact they don't seem to be bothered by it anyway.  They are going on their merry way as always.  If Mary is annoyed by Edith being a sad sack at the dinner, she just needs to walk away.  No one is forcing her to deal with it.

 

We can agree to disagree on how much Cora sucks as a mother.  She's not nearly as bad as Robert, but she is neglectful.  She comforted Edith after she was jilted, but we've never seen her put much effort into improving Edith's life or bolstering her self-confidence and spirits.   And Robert?  Sorry, he is a lousy father.  He ignores her, openly dismisses and disdains her and scorns her, never compliments her.  When she was jilted he just shrugged and said "there is nothing to be done" and went back to smoking his cigar. 

 

As for the jilting, Anthony certainly bears some of the fault.  I won't deny that.  But he's not her father:  Robert is.  His discouragement of the poor man would not be so bad if he had someone better in mind for her, but he doesn't.  He has never lifted a finger to find someone "better."  He judges the men she chooses as unfit, but can't be bothered to find someone suitable.  And again, it's not that fucking difficult.  At least he could TRY.

 

And the last person who is to blame for the jilting is Edith.  She wanted to be a helpmate to her husband, to support him, to focus on him.  So what?  That is a perfectly valid approach to marriage if you ask me.  It's not like she didn't love or respect him or they didn't genuinely get along.  She is a helpful person by nature and she saw that as part of the duties of marriage.

 

If it's OK for Mary to want to marry for status and money (which she does), then it's OK for Edith to want to marry to have someone to care for.   Everyone has different expectations.  And Anthony DID want to marry her.  He seemed disheartened when Robert was so clearly against it.  He told her she had "given him back his life."  A man doesn't say that to a woman he doesn't really want to marry.

 

The blame lies with Robert, Violet and Anthony.  Not Edith.  She didn't do a thing wrong.  And no, she didn't blame them but that doesn't mean they were not to blame.  I say good on her for not faulting them.  If anything it is proof that Edith does NOT blame other people for her problems as some claim, even when they are partly responsible for them.

 

I think she didn't tell her mother about the baby because she doesn't want to hurt or disappoint her.  Don't forget she was not even going to tell Rosamund or Violet:  both just guessed.  She was going to carry the burden herself.  So sure, she is depressed but she isn't dumping it on anyone else.  

Edited September 30, 2014 by ZulaMay

[kpw801]

Thank you for articulating so eloquently what I have been feeling about Edith!  The entire series has been about getting a husband for Mary!  she was incredibly hard and unfeeling when Patrick died not wanting to go into full mourning.  First they pushed Matthew and Patrick because that way they could keep Cora's fortune in the immediate family.  The only time I think he ever was not really encouraging was when she was being wooed by Sir Scandal Paper.  He and Violet never really liked him but they were never as overtly hostile as they were to Anthony Strallan once Edith had her heart set on him.  

 

As a matter of fact when Parmuk entered Mary's bedroom that first night, all she had to do was run out of her room and scream.  She would have been believed. Unfortunately, prejudice towards foreigners would have guaranteed she would have been believed.  We also could have been spared much of the Thomas scheming because maybe he would have been unmasked as the one who led Parmuk to her boudoir in the first place.

 

I want to see Edith happily married in her own home or see scenes of her finding a career in journalism in America and taking little Marigold as a ward with an eye to unveiling the true nature of their relationship later on down the line.  She seems so squashed at Downton abbey.  If she is still writing articles she could go to visit London.  As a matter of fact, she could send Marigold off to a posh boarding school in London and then visit her as she pleased without having to deal with the Drews.  I am at work so I had better start working.

[kpw801]

I agree they treat Mary like her shit doesn't stink, but it doesn't bother me because of the Pamuk thing.  Yes, it was reckless but she was young and stupid.  We all make mistakes.  Yes, she caused a lot of trouble for people but its natural for her parents to want to protect and forgive her.

 

What DOES bother me is that they treat her like a goddess for no other reason than her beauty.  What else recommends her over Edith?  She is more socially poised and confident, but that's because of her looks and social status AND being praised her entire life.  She isn't particularly accomplished, nice, warm or helpful.  She doesn't light up a room and bring joy to people like Sybil did.  She has always been prone to dissatisfaction, irritability, entitlement and self-absorption.  She was a demanding, spoiled pain in the arse in S1.

 

Edith might not have Mary's looks or poise but she would be a LOT more confident if they had treated her as they should have.  She tries to be helpful, to learn new things; she's accomplished and attractive (certainly reasonably so).  She actually has a great figure, better than Mary's.  She did act out of bitterness in S1 and can be a sad sack but she has completely legitimate reasons for doing so, just as she has reasons for resenting Mary.  Mary on the other hand has been given every advantage and has no excuse for being so nasty to her sister or for being butthurt every time things don't go exactly as she wants them to.  

 

That's why it bugs me.  Not only does she not deserve to be treated better, she doesn't even merit it IMO.  Sybil was much better company in general and Edith at least can carry on a conversation about something other than herself, her love life and Downton. She's also not a manipulative narcissist who uses and discards people.

I agree with you about Edith's attractiveness.  She didn't have much style in Season 1 but the season that she was going to London and dining in smart restaurants with Michael Gregson, she brought it!  She does not have the same kind of dark beauty Mary and Sybil had but Edith can be electrifyingly sexy when she wants to be.  Those shoulder baring gowns and armlets she wore were carried off in great style.  She just came alive in London and I hate to see her turn into such a sad sack again now that Michael Gregson has disappeared.  She should continue to grow and blossom.  Edith's costumers gave her a lot more interesting looks than they even gave Sybil.  The most daring thing Sybil ever wore was that harem pants outfit.  If Edith would start dressing at dinner parties the way she dressed in London and stop letting her family beat her down, she would beat Mary back to the altar.  I think she should start doing things in the village or start visiting London again.  She seems to pale beside Mary at home because no one ever comes to Downton for any reason but to woo Mary for one reason or another and she allows herself to be stuck with grasping for Mary's left overs and she is so capable of snagging her own fish.  Her ideas and conversationable abilities outshone Mary's at the party with Sir Anthony Strallan but she came across as desperate.  Oh well back to work.

[Stine]

Was I the only one who thought that the scene with Robert and Carson in the village was incredibly hokey? They needed Carson to come around on the location for the war memorial, so they had them discussing the importance of people going about their daily business being able to stop and remember the fallen, and then at that exact moment, they spot a woman and her son visiting his father's grave, and she expresses the exact same sentiments that Robert was trying to explain to Carson? So of course Carson hears just what Robert needed him to, and agrees that the monument needs to be there. Really, writers, it doesn't get any clunkier than that. 

 

I've never warmed to Gillingham, and I agree that there's something off about the whole situation with him and Mary. Not that Blake is all that interesting either, but at least he doesn't come across as needy/slightly sketchy the way Tony does (to me). 

Everything else? Meh--it's all right, but I find most of the subplots entirely forgettable as soon as I've finished the episode. And I'm definitely not looking forward to reopening the Greene business. 

[ZulaMay]

Yes, of course it's clunky.  That stuff always happens.  Although this was a particularly severe example.  And it really wasn't a very interesting subplot to start.  I thought the local politics regarding who would lead the committee were kind of interesting, but not the actual details of the memorial.  And really, I think one reason Robert wanted it in the village was so he didn't have to tear up his precious cricket pitch.

[DianeDobbler]

When I think back to Season 1, Fellowes had a bunch of love stories running. For whatever reason - and I choose to blame his obsession with making Mary's love life interesting to the audience before he lets anyone else have one - there's been nothing for two years. I don't count stuff that is obvious plot that's not meant to really be a thing in itself, like Jack and Rose. I'm tired of Mary talking about love and sex. When I rewatched this season's episode 2, I realize I do prefer Blake to Tony, but in a meh kind of way. With Matthew, it played as if Matthew really wasn't going to be happy without Mary, even when he pretended he had to be. You knew when they were together they were happy. Gillingham, for me, is sort of eh, I don't care about your sex life. Blake, to me is, okay, you're better, despite your helmet hair, you're a bit smarter and, this episode, nicer, but - no particular chemistry with Mary, especially on the romantic level. If she decided on him, great, but it's not - phew, because they'll never be happy with anyone else. Yes, I know, many marriages are fine without being do or die, but this is a soap/show. I don't want time wasted on, okay, he'll do. Now, I'm just like - Fellowes, what is the emotional hook supposed to be with this show? With Edith, it just seems so obvious to me she needs somebody courting her to put real tension in the Marigold story, instead the whole tension is with the pigman and his wife. Why he doesn't tell his wife is a mystery to me, makes him automatically, and wrongly, look more loyal to Edith, and unfairly makes the wife look like an obstacle when it's not her fault. We don't really know them either, so why care about their marriage? And Fellowes seems as uninterested in really writing Rose as he was in writing Sybil at the end.

 

I agree Bunting was better. In the past she came across as the sort of character who is clearly angling to be the romantic interest of another character, while pretending to tell them like it is, while actually being self-serving. Turning down the dinner invitation this episode helped her credibility, and she was able to tell Tom things such as you won't be happy with this family without coming across as if she had a personal stake in the game, and her remarks about Sybil made sense. I also noted his comment that Rose had invited Bunting and saying he was unaccustomed to having someone with a similar mindset at the dinner table.

 

P.S. - when Robert complained about the flirting with Isis, I thought he clearly meant Cora, but was too irritated and grumpy in general to make it about that.

Edited October 1, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[Tetraneutron]

I do like seeing Daisy's growth. I hope something actually comes of it, and she moves out relatively soon. That would be a happy ending.

That's the fundamental problem with this show. Being happy, and building a life for yourself, and getting a happy ending means leaving Downton (for everyone but Robert, Cora, Violet, and George. And in some ways Mary). Especially for the servants. Gwen, Alfred, and Ivy had happy endings and that's it for them. Daisy in the real world would have gone into business with her father in law and gotten married by now. Edith would have, if she couldn't bear to part with her child, moved to America and told people she was a widow. Tom and Sybbie would be long gone.

As for Edith, it makes sense that Drewe hasn't told his wife about Edith. It would be a huge betrayal, leave her vulnerable to blackmail, and ruin her rep. Do you think she'd keep it quiet. The fact that every farmer and servant in the world wants to do the Crawleys' bidding is one thing, and I can accept that as part of the show. And given that, Drewe wouldn't betray Edith..