S04.E01: Iowa

[sugarbaker design]

Not one of the Girls feels like a fleshed out person with a consistent inner voice and internal logic.

 

 

I would look for consistent inner voices and internal logic in a show titled 'Women'.  But Hannah and Marnie and the rest are, in fact, girls.  They're still figuring out who they are, what they want, and what they need.  

Edited January 13, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[FozzyBear]

I would look for consistent inner voices and internal logic in a show titled 'Women'. But Hannah and Marnie and the rest are, in fact, girls. They're still figuring out who they are, what they want, and what they need.

And my friends that love this show make that argument, so fair enough. I just don't agree. They feel like a collection of ideas, not people. In my opinion, people in their 20s have an internal logic even if it doesn't always translate into real world logic. I just don't feel it on this show. I guess what I mean is I don't actually believe in any of the Girls.

[lovinbob]

I suppose it goes without saying that Girls isn't unique in using premium cable's platform for telling stories that involve sex and nudity?

Or a shorter version: Lena Dunham didn't invent the HBO sex scene. She's just getting on everyone's nerves by being a woman while doing it.

No, it's not unique. But I'm not commenting on those shows.

I know it's true that there is sexism and "looks-ism" associated with some people's reaction to this show and LD herself. But i don't dislike the show and these scenes because she's a woman. I just don't think the show is well done in many respects. It works for some--that's fine. But I'm not a bigot or a cave woman because I don't like it.

[Otherkate]

I thought Marnie's sex scene was pretty funny and also on point. Ass eating has been all the rage lately, culminating in many articles being written about it including Gawker's The Booty-Eating Renaissance back in the fall. Any self-respecting hipster would be trying it out and hence - Marnie's not-boyfriend. 

 

I actually hated this show the first season, until I reread my journals from my early twenties. I kept detailed, copious journals and, though I really didn't feel that way at the time, boy was I an annoying mess. Now I watch the show through that prism and I have to say it's greatly, greatly increased my enjoyment of it. I think Lena does a pretty good job of capturing the complicated, self-centered, immature, on the cusp of being an adult struggle of the twenty something, especially those of us who all fled to NYC at that age. 

[Chas411]

I'm probably really out of the loop here but who is Brian Williams? He's Alison's father yes but is he famous?

 

I enjoyed the episode though I'm worried we're in for yet another season where the characters experience one step of growth and then take a 100 steps backward by the seasons end.

 

I like Marnie and thought her scene with Elijah was hilarious. I like the two of them together as they always call each other out on their bullshit.

 

Is Ray still into Marnie?

 

Is Hannah over Adam? I dont feel shes that into him anymore.

[terrymct]

It's interesting that one of the most commonly leveled stabs at Lena Dunham is the nudity.

The second one being that Hannah is an awful person. Except Hannah is not Lena.

Attractive female naked on HBO = okay.

Attractive male naked on HBO = hell yeah. (see: true blood)

Not conventionally attractive male naked on cable = funny.

Not conventionally attractive female naked = ugh, stone her to death.

My problem with the nudity isn't that Dunham doesn't look like a model. It's that through the course of this show, too much of the nudity seems to be gratuitous, not necessary to the story and more for the shock effect or attention.

My problem with Dunham overall is that I don't think she's a consistently good writer. Her best characters are people that are likely drawn from her life or observations of her friend's families, such as Hannah's parents. That makes sense, the old idea of write what you know. It makes it all the more puzzling, however, that her most poorly written characters are the ones she should know the very best...the actual girls. Hannah herself is a mess of a character. She's profoundly stupid and self centered. She's destructive to both herself and to anyone who cares about her. There's no real indication that she's redeemable or willing to grow or change. Why should such a character be interesting, except as a farcical foil in a formulaic sitcom to a likable main character? Does anyone hold out hope that she'll grow or learn in Iowa? No, it's an ego episode for her and a chance for her to be destructive to a whole new community of characters.

You may be asking why I still bother to watch the show. It's mainly to see if I can figure out what all the abundant praise is about and to see how horrible Hannah and her pals end up being.

[chocolatine]

I'm probably really out of the loop here but who is Brian Williams? He's Alison's father yes but is he famous?

 

 

He's a long-time NBC news anchor.  Here's a hilarious mash-up to make it look like he's rapping.

Edited January 14, 2015 by chocolatine

[Pallas]

That was delightful, chocolatine!  As you can see, Chas, Allison takes after him.  Of the sex scene, Brian Williams comments in Vulture:  

"She's always been an actress. For us, watching her is the family occupation and everybody has to remember it’s acting, no animals were harmed during the filming, and ideally nobody gets hurt."

[EyesGlazed]

I suppose it goes without saying that Girls isn't unique in using premium cable's platform for telling stories that involve sex and nudity?

 

Or a shorter version: Lena Dunham didn't invent the HBO sex scene. She's just getting on everyone's nerves by being a woman while doing it.

 

Good points.  I didn't particularly want to see Marnie getting her salad tossed, but I wanted even less to see all the gratuitous tits and ass on Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones and Marco Polo, to name just a few.  At least the female nudity in this show is in service of developing a female character instead of titillating the bros.

I thought Marnie's sex scene was pretty funny and also on point. Ass eating has been all the rage lately, culminating in many articles being written about it including Gawker's The Booty-Eating Renaissance back in the fall. Any self-respecting hipster would be trying it out and hence - Marnie's not-boyfriend. 

Hee.

[CofCinci]

Is Ray still into Marnie?

I think so. Why else would he make an appearance at the Jazz brunch.

Is Hannah over Adam? I dont feel shes that into him anymore.

Their sex scene was obligatory and missionary. They are over each other but neither has the balls to call it off.

[terrymct]

And my friends that love this show make that argument, so fair enough. I just don't agree. They feel like a collection of ideas, not people. In my opinion, people in their 20s have an internal logic even if it doesn't always translate into real world logic. I just don't feel it on this show. I guess what I mean is I don't actually believe in any of the Girls.

 

Exactly.  It's like the episodes are a series of short stories that use the same general characters and pretend to have an arc, but really kind of start over with characters again at random.   For example, I have no idea why Marnie is falling apart the way she is.  I have no idea why she has no real boundaries when it comes to men.  She lost her job at the gallery.  Was that enough to drive her to schtupp inappropriate men?  Why?

[MelsW]

The one thing on this show that I think has been absolutely brilliant from start to finish is the costume design. It is spectacular. I can absolutely buy that each and every look (as awful as they have a tendency to be) came from a real person's closet and that person is Hannah, or Jessa, or Marnie, or Shoshana. Honestly, I think the costume designer has done more than anyone else involved with this show to develop some interesting characters.

 

I agree, the constuming on this show really is fantastic and I don't doubt for a second that every piece of clothing or accessory is deliberate . Which is why I wonder what in the hell they dressed Beadie's daughter in...a pantsless horseback rider?

 

Hannah's wardrobe always screams "Ill-fitting H&M" to me, which is pretty appropriate for a 20-something. I am in my late 30s now and it really took me until about the time I was 30 to learn to dress myself in the most flattering way, understanding the importance of tailoring, finding what styles look best on my body type, etc. Basically, I thought I was a dressing like a cool as shit alternachick but really I was wearing ill-fitting random stuff a la Hannah. So I can relate.

 

I really enjoyed the episode. Season 2 was the season of hatewatching for me but I once again really enjoy the dialogue, lack of self-awareness, and the characters in general. I love Andrew Rannels and was glad to see him in the first episode. Once again, kudos to the parental casting on this show. I loved the Mels (poor Shosh!).

[braziliangirl]

 

It probably does not help that our media often tells us that if you are good looking certain things will be handed to you.  Marnie knows she is pretty and smart enough to graduate from a good school...so why is her life not more like Rory Gilmore or Joey Potter?  Why is there not a line of great looking, successful, and rich guys that are trying to date her?  Why is that every woman she meets is not dying to be her best friend?  She was also probably a little spoiled by having a boyfriend who adored her in college and a best friend she could feel superior to.  In all fairness, I think Hanna also feels superior to Marnie, but for different reasons.

 

 

I have no idea why Marnie is falling apart the way she is.  I have no idea why she has no real boundaries when it comes to men.

 

the first quote explains to me why Marnie is falling apart. I think she probably had things come easy to her when she was younger and at a certain point in the show she discovered she was not the most special snowflake ever, started losing her confidence and things kind of derailed and she's trying to get some sort of validation wherever she can (and of course it doesn't work). It's sad, kind of pathetic but so real.

 

I think that Hannah and Adam know deep down things won't work with them being apart but are not ready to end it. I don't think they are over each other in itself. For me it was more like "this will not work out so I'm building my defenses so I can deal better when we (inevitably) break up".

 

Also I loved Shosh and Ray scene. Their awkward hug (well more awkward for Shosh) after her apology was so great in that weird way of dealing with exes when you're friends but not really.

[Pallas]

For example, I have no idea why Marnie is falling apart the way she is.  I have no idea why she has no real boundaries when it comes to men.  She lost her job at the gallery.  Was that enough to drive her to schtupp inappropriate men?  Why?

 

I feel we do have enough to guess at why Marnie is imploding.  For example, her mother, though as broadly drawn as Shosh's Mels, is a mother-of-beautiful-daughter I've met before: one who at least seems to focus only on her daughter's appearance, how she packages and markets the goods, defined strictly as how she presents herself in the world.  Marnie absorbed the lessons and they took her pretty far in a pretty rarefied environment: the fledgling artists/intellectuals of Oberlin, aged 18 - 22.  In that setting, Marnie stood out for her poise and competence as well as her beauty, just as she probably had throughout middle school and high school.  She had reason to feel that all the girls wanted to be her, and all the boys wanted to woo her.  Even though it's as likely that many of the girls and boys also wanted to see her taken down.

 

Now she has brought her act to New York and found that it doesn't play there.  Not in Manhattan and not in Brooklyn.  She has the manner of a girl brought up among the elite, but not the background or connections; she has some of the inclinations and talents of a young artist or young manager, but not enough.  With what she's putting out -- with what she thinks she has to bring to the table -- she is a pretty, polished, dime-a-dozen.  She is not even cool enough to keep the interest of her standby best friend or boyfriend, the ones she wowed in college.  

 

All she has left to parlay is her polish, even as she inwardly resists the idea.  She thinks she can elevate herself above being one of the side-pockets in some guy's running the table of available 20-somethings, by allowing him to see enough of her to be enraptured by her essence. Meanwhile, as 17wheatthins said so well,

 

I suppose it's STILL a foreign concept to Marnie that sex does not equal love......although I know people in their 40s & 50s who still haven't grasped that.

 

Marnie is, in halts and reverses, grasping that.  And it feels like a nettle, because it is.  

 

[taanja]

 

I think you may be on to something.  People really seem to enjoy ripping Lena apart for her less than perfect body. 

 

I am 52 and from Iowa, I am probably not their target audience yet I like the show now more than when it started.   Hannah is self-centered and she gets called on it a lot.  She digs her own grave when she talks non-stop about her feelings -like in the episode where her publisher died.  If she had kept quiet  she would not have looked so bad.  She "shares" way too much.

 

I just like the show. They are still young and trying to figure things out. It shows a life style I have never been a part of.

 

 I agree with every thing you posted. I am in my 50's as well. I am obviously not the target audience. Personally I love that Hannah is self centered to a fault. She is her own worst enemy. I love that Marnie is uncomfortable in her own skin and therefore makes everyone around her uncomfortable. ---including the audience.  I love all the awkward moments that are very true to life---because folks---that IS LIFE! Awkward and messy ---and extremely embarrassing at times.

 

Poor Jessa is damaged goods. She has a hole right through  the middle of her that nothing will ever be enough to fill. The actress plays that to perfection. You can almost fell her loneliness and pain.

 

Shosh is the only character I don't identify with as much as the other's. She talks too fast but that scene with her parents this ep? gave me a glimpse into her psyche.

 

[KnoxForPres]

Exactly. It's like the episodes are a series of short stories that use the same general characters and pretend to have an arc, but really kind of start over with characters again at random. For example, I have no idea why Marnie is falling apart the way she is. I have no idea why she has no real boundaries when it comes to men. She lost her job at the gallery. Was that enough to drive her to schtupp inappropriate men? Why?

I agree. Any good writer can write cliches, but why do I care, what is motivating them? If it's pretty rich girl dumped, John Hughes has that in spades.

She can nail some dialogue though. So much of Andrew Runnels quotes outside of the brunch were amazing. Especially loved the one about how in any other city it would have gone differently. I regret not having the quote nor motivation to ff on demand, but I did a real laugh out loud.

So can I admit something? I didn't realize he was going down on her ass. Like logistically and geographically I knew the locale, but guess I thought he was a bit more no

[discorules]

I couldn't decide it was cunnilingus or analingus....probably a bit of both.

[bunnywithanaxe]

 I agree with every thing you posted. I am in my 50's as well. I am obviously not the target audience. Personally I love that Hannah is self centered to a fault. She is her own worst enemy. I love that Marnie is uncomfortable in her own skin and therefore makes everyone around her uncomfortable. ---including the audience.  I love all the awkward moments that are very true to life---because folks---that IS LIFE! Awkward and messy ---and extremely embarrassing at times.

46 here. I actually think we are the target audience, the network just hasn't figured that out yet. Where the 20-somethings can sit the and sniff, "Ewww, I would never be that stupid." we can cackle "HA! I WAS TOTALLY THAT STUPID! HEY, REMEMBER BEING THAT STUPID?? GOD, WE WERE ASSHOLES, WEREN'T WE?! HA!"

[scrb]

Demographics of HBO skews older than 20s.

 

Probably older than 30s.

 

People who have some money and probably watch more TV than they used to.

[taanja]

 

 What I don't really understand is why they make the same mistakes.. in characters like Marnie where it really does feel like we are just being told the same story over and over again. She keeps hooking up with other peoples boyfriends. She was doing this in season 2 with her ex as well.

 

Take it from an old lady here. People do not really change. They pretty much stay the same. Some mature as time goes by and learn from their mistakes ---and some people keep repeating that same shit over and over. I know women on their 4th and 5th marriages and they just keep marrying the same kind of man and then wonder why it doesn't work out.

 

[slasherboy]

Did they use body doubles for the sex scene? I cannot imagine how Brian Williams would react to watching that scene.

 

 

Allison said she and her dad watched it together.  I can't .....

 

(i don't like her and it has nothing to do with this show or Peter Pan.  i just don't like her.)

[KnoxForPres]

Allison said she and her dad watched it together. I can't .....

(i don't like her and it has nothing to do with this show or Peter Pan. i just don't like her.)

Yuck. I remember watching a movie with my dad, think it was Before the Devil Knows You're Dead and it had an anal-esque scene and I wanted to disappear. I can't imagine if I had been in that scene. Gosh, that really is yuck to me. And I'm the opposite of pure, sadly.

While my brain is sex driven, that was some seriously bad sex between Adam and Hannah.

I did think she captured that feeling you can have when another persons moodiness dominates the playbook. Adam controlled the dynamics in all of their scenes. That's not a fun place to be in life when you're Hannah so I did buy her leaving without waking him up.

This isn't my proudest admission, but while I'm not the demographic (I'm 35), my brain likes to think I'm still 25. The passage of time amazes me and I'm like how the fuck am I 35? I've not yet married and no kids so that may perpetuate it, but I feel sometimes a contemporary of the cast even though I am not. That's a hair depressing. So the part of not knowing what you're doing with your life resonates and I think that's why I keep watching.

Edited January 17, 2015 by KnoxForPres

[TVForever]

46 here. I actually think we are the target audience, the network just hasn't figured that out yet. Where the 20-somethings can sit the and sniff, "Ewww, I would never be that stupid." we can cackle "HA! I WAS TOTALLY THAT STUPID! HEY, REMEMBER BEING THAT STUPID?? GOD, WE WERE ASSHOLES, WEREN'T WE?! HA!"

   Oh my gosh, THANK YOU!  Without divulging my exact age, let's say I share your demographic, lol! I just started getting HBO, so I did a binge watch of season 3 yesterday. Unfortunately, On Demand didn't have seasons 1 & 2, so if anyone knows where I can see those, please share. Anyway, wanted to see what all the fuss over this show was about. I'm with you all the way. I found myself thinking back over all the reviews and opinion pieces I've come across since this show started, and now I just don't get it. These characters are pretty much just what I see from people their age, including me and my crowd going back to that time. Sure, it may be a little "heightened" for effect, but self-centered, selfish, fair-weather friend early 20-somethings? Yeah, that's pretty normal. In fact, this behavior makes more sense in this crowd than it did on Seinfeld, who always struck me as a group of people that were really old enough to know better.

   

    And by the way, regarding Hannah/Lena's willingness to be nude/semi-nude much of the time? God bless her! I admire her bravery. Because every Hollywood convention says that "less than perfect" bodies shouldn't even be romantic, let alone sexual, let alone NAKED! 

 

  I'm liking the show so far. It's not perfect, but it's certainly entertaining. I hope the show stays on long enough for us to see them start to really grow up.

[Pallas]

With an HBO subscription, you can see all episodes from every season for free on hbo.go.com.  Just go to the website, sign up and enjoy free range of virtually all HBO offerings, past and present, including those not available On Demand.  

[qtpye]

Because every Hollywood convention says that "less than perfect" bodies shouldn't even be romantic, let alone sexual, let alone NAKED!

 

 

I would qualify this "as less then perfect female bodies".  There is more diversity with men and you can have a less then perfect looking guy be sexy.  Even in Game of Thrones all the naked women are of one type, which is usually slim and young with perky breasts.  Remember, when Harvey Keitel (sp?) was naked in a lot of movies.  He had a less then perfect physique and was still considered pretty sexy.

 

I think Marnie considers that she is entitled to happiness because of her looks and polish.  Hanna feels entitled because she thinks has a god given talent.  I would venture that Hanna probably has more lasting relationships, because the men are attracted to her for more then superficial reasons.  I think Marnie's guys tend to tire of her after her physical appeal has worn off.  I also would not be surprised if Marnie was bad in bed ( I do not know why I think this).

 

I remember when Marnie was sleeping with Ray, she really thought he would worship the ground she walked on.  You could tell she thought of herself as quite a step up from Shoshana.  Yet, as the end it was Ray that ended the physical contact and it was Marnie that was at his door demanding sex.

[Chas411]

I also would not be surprised if Marnie was bad in bed ( I do not know why I think this).

 

 

I can see this being the case as well. I think it's because Marnie is just in general so uncomfortable in herself and letting go.

[TVForever]

With an HBO subscription, you can see all episodes from every season for free on hbo.go.com.  Just go to the website, sign up and enjoy free range of virtually all HBO offerings, past and present, including those not available On Demand.  

   Thanks, Pallas. Time to schedule another binge-watch weekend!

[Hecate7]

Elijah's tough love speech trying to shake Marnie to her thin-skinned core was awesome. Seriously the Lady Gaga-Judy Garland example was really good.

 

And it was a small moment, but I loved Shosh asking where the kitten was that Elijah saved.  It looked to me like he was trying to come up with an answer when he saw his ex.

Elijah made a good speech, but actually it showed that he knew nothing about Judy Garland. What people loved about her was her vulnerability, and that is what killed her. She DID care, she cared way too much and it made her a nervous wreck all the time, which is why she took so many pills. It's a lovely fantasy that she didn't care. I think Liza learned not to care.

 

I loved Shosh asking about the kitten, too. Elijah obviously made it up because he thought it sounded good, and is dim enough that it didn't occur to him that someone might ask where the kitten was. Speaking of kittens, where is Marnie's kitten?

[bunnywithanaxe]

Yikes, Marnie's kitten. I can just picture the poor thing wandering down the streets of Brooklyn while Marnie knits her hipster scarf...

[jennylauren123]

That was delightful, chocolatine!  As you can see, Chas, Allison takes after him.  Of the sex scene, Brian Williams comments in Vulture:  

"She's always been an actress. For us, watching her is the family occupation and everybody has to remember it’s acting, no animals were harmed during the filming, and ideally nobody gets hurt."

Also, I would assume that most actresses have parents, and those parents wind up watching uncomfortable scenes from time to time. What makes Brian Williams such a special snowflake? Being in the biz himself, I would guess that he would be more tolerant of the discomfort.

[sugarbaker design]

What makes Brian Williams such a special snowflake?

 

 

Seriously, who cares what an overpaid newsreader thinks?!

[lucindabelle]

Also in an older demographic and also struggling to realize I am not in my 20s or 30s! Interesting.

I did dressy self better in my 20s and was never quite so obnoxious as Hannah... I have journals to prove it! But I don't think we are supposed to see her self involvement as normal, so that's fine.

I heard driver on NPR and was impressed... He was in the military and en went to Julliard. Knows his shit.

[long beach lisa]

I need to free myself from watching this show. I'm just not the target audience. I did my quarter life crisis in Brooklyn 15 years ago. Not sure why I insist on hate watching.

people keep telling me how talented Lena Dunham is, and maybe so. But it feels like an emperor's new clothes scenario. Which is apt, I guess, since she's so often naked.

I did that 30 years ago in Brooklyn, but things were way different back then. People like these characters would have been shunned, through and through.

 

Someone upthread asked why Hannah was acting like an entitled you-know-what with her parents -- guess what? They brought her up that way. When I read that Lena Dunham was raised by artists and went to St. Ann's private school in Brooklyn Heights, it all became clear. She's writing what she knows.

 

I'm probably one of the oldest commenters here, but I watch this show absolutely gobsmacked by the bottom-line ugliness (people and situations), entitlement (where does everyone keep their many trophies??) and self-absorption.

 

This show is 180 degrees from Sex and the City (people, Brooklyn has showers, trust me), but both shows are equally dangerous to impressionable young people.

 

I'm dying to write an entire manifesto about this, but I'm too tired. 

 

I fear for future generations, and this show has made me so very happy I've never had children. I'd be mortified if any child of mine were as hateful or Valley Girl stupid as these characters. Not only youth, but education, seems to be wasted on the young (in this show --no offense to viewers).

 

I am in awe of how the casting people managed to find the most heinous-looking people on earth to showcase on a reputable cable network. I use TV for escape ... when I want to see the fugly and unwashed, I'll take the subway.

Edited February 25, 2015 by AmandaPanda
removing inflammatory language