Spoilers With Speculation

[Myrelle]

25 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In this interview with EW, Jensen 'spoiler alerts' that it was him, Jared, Rob and (this was the spoiler alert) Jake Abel, were in quarantine together (apart). No mention of Misha. So unless he did film something on that one day before shutdown - unlikely, since it was 19 they were beginning and we've already seen that - he's not part of the finale - at least not with new material.

They really only need words to let us know whether Castiel is out of the empty or not.

I know that some in the fandom, of course, wanted an appearance, but for me, that would be more than enough(and even just that way, it could still turn out to be disastrous given who's writing this one).

If no mention is made at all?-disastrous to one segment of the fandom, yes, but I still say that they got more than they deserved with 15.18.

Anything else I'd have to say belongs in a different thread, so I'll just leave it at that until we see what transpires tomorrow night.

My spec is still that we will get something worded on the angel's final fate.

 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

He also said that the most emotional day in the script/scene was not final day but the last Friday. Going by the QOTD on this day the final scene of that big fight scene was shot.

That would point a lot to it ending in a death scene, likely Dean.

Though then I'm not sure, Jensen kept filming and chronologically there would be a few scenes after that. Dean as a ghost hanging around? Then a final reunion in the afterlife?

I wouldn't mind Dean dying so much, even on a regular hunt if it had purpose to it. Saving someone, preferably a civilian again for a change. And it wasn't done stupidly/due to incompetence. Also his legacy got acknowledged.

But with no real recurring characters around - AU!Bobby wouldn't give a shit really - there is nothing to give it weight.

 

Aaaaaaand I have seriously no idea what Badd is talking about here, it's the bloody opposite from what he used to say, see Article

 

No rest or peace for them here, that's for sure-at least from this one anyway.

This might be the most genuinely spoilerish one that he's given to date.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

56 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

They really only need words to let us know whether Castiel is out of the empty or not.

Yes. I said it somewhere else - all they need is "Castiel is in heaven with Jack and he's happy". But then, who could actually deliver this - or any other - line, about Heaven or Hell or The Empty? The only way it could be acknowledged if is one or both of them are actually there.

[Aeryn13]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Yes. I said it somewhere else - all they need is "Castiel is in heaven with Jack and he's happy". But then, who could actually deliver this - or any other - line, about Heaven or Hell or The Empty? The only way it could be acknowledged if is one or both of them are actually there.

I read some supposed spoilers on tumblr - so grain of salt - that Gack brought Cas back but offscreen. He was supposed to have a scene in ep 20 but it was cut from the script. He is unlikely to have been on set but will get a mention- context unknown.

Sam would not end up with Eileen or Jess (guess that was in response to the other earlier spoilers). And there would be no do-over.

Nothing specific on Dean.

So if Sam doesn't hook up with Eileen, I'd question the life apart. Because Dean dying, then Sam continue hunting for some time and then also dying, cue reunion is just the epitome of pointless. If so, they could easily die together. 

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I read some supposed spoilers on tumblr - so grain of salt - that Gack brought Cas back but offscreen. He was supposed to have a scene in ep 20 but it was cut from the script. He is unlikely to have been on set but will get a mention- context unknown.

But how can we know what Gack does or doesn't do off screen? Unless there are independent scenes of him in Heaven, or The Empty in... The Empty, and god I hope there are NOT, there should be no supernaturals around to inform us.

[Aeryn13]

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But how can we know what Gack does or doesn't do off screen? Unless there are independent scenes of him in Heaven, or The Empty in... The Empty, and god I hope there are NOT, there should be no supernaturals around to inform us.

Lolcanon!Badd would find a way and if it was a burning bush rolling by and screaming "btw, I brought Cas back".

If they somehow brought back Jim Beaver for original Bobby, you could give him all kinds of heavenly exposition. Just because of reasons. 

[Myrelle]

18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But how can we know what Gack does or doesn't do off screen? Unless there are independent scenes of him in Heaven, or The Empty in... The Empty, and god I hope there are NOT, there should be no supernaturals around to inform us.

I'm thinking one of the brothers will tell us, the one who died "first", of course.

24 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I read some supposed spoilers on tumblr - so grain of salt - that Gack brought Cas back but offscreen. He was supposed to have a scene in ep 20 but it was cut from the script. He is unlikely to have been on set but will get a mention- context unknown.

Sam would not end up with Eileen or Jess (guess that was in response to the other earlier spoilers). And there would be no do-over.

Nothing specific on Dean.

So if Sam doesn't hook up with Eileen, I'd question the life apart. Because Dean dying, then Sam continue hunting for some time and then also dying, cue reunion is just the epitome of pointless. If so, they could easily die together. 

Well, Sam would have been "carrying on" without Dean and likely would have left behind others who were also carrying on the work. 

I have no doubt that this one is going to be a Sam fest since JP loves it so well. Maybe he will give part of the credit for all he did to Dean for being his role model.

I have no illusions that Dean will actually be shown or talked of as having any type of leader role except possibly in that context, at this point. 

And tbh, therein lies the little hope that I alluded to in my previous post.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Myrelle

[Binns]

I feel like the pandemic must have really hampered some of what they wanted to do just because they couldn’t bring back all of the actors. Unfortunate. But not really their fault. I’m looking forward to the first con or interviews etc. after Thursday where we get more info about what changed due to covid. 

[PAForrest]

There's still conflicting information as to whether Misha was in Vancouver and shot for 20 or not. At this point we obviously just have to wait until tomorrow.

Thematically, no, it makes zero sense that Cas doesn't appear again, or that Queen Gack is too much of poop head to bother to save him. Only makes that character more unlikable than he already was.

And the COVID excuse doesn't fly either since Eugenie was certainly able to drag Pellegrino back for one more lame cameo. Obviously Jake Abel and Rob Benedict were brought in to quarantine, as well as the chick who played Two Minute Death Betty - unless she's a Canuck (I don't know). And we know Jim Beaver came to Vancouver to shoot 20, and chances are his part is only a cameo.

So there is quite literally no good reason they couldn't bring Misha back for the episode. If he was supposed to be in 20 originally, absolutely nothing had to change. The man lives in Bellingham - he was closer to the border than Pellegrino, Beaver, Benedict, and Abel. He could have started quarantining immediately - or even before they shot 19.

Again, wait and see.

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I'm thinking one of the brothers will tell us, the one who died "first", of course.

Well, Sam would have been "carrying on" without Dean and likely would have left behind others who were also carrying on the work. 

I have no doubt that this one is going to be a Sam fest since JP loves it so well. Maybe he will give part of the credit for all he did to Dean for being his role model.

I have no illusions that Dean will actually be shown or talked of as having any type of leader role except possibly in that context, at this point. 

And tbh, therein lies the little hope that I alluded to in my previous post.

I`m also expecting more of a Sam-fest. Though if Dean dies first, I don`t know how much time would be between that death and the final scene. And if that isn`t filled with lots of previous recurring characters, what would be the point? Not to mention, I don`t think Jensen shot any less material.

From the looks of it, I would say they might show one hunt, maybe the vampire one (and imply others) in the first part of the episode. That is when they have the cake-eating scene and earlier the scene in the bunker where Dean cleans the weapons. It`s when Dean wears the dark blue jacket. Give that all maybe 15-20 minutes or so?

Then there will be the fight scene in that barn. They are in different outfits here. If it does contain a death scene and everything, give it ten minutes overall. Maybe a bit more with some set up for that hunt. 

Maybe another five minutes at the end for the final scene.  

That leaves some bit in between of 5ish minutes to show what? 

The story structure mystifies me, as does the lack of guest actors on imdb. Pandemic or not. For that kind of storyline, AU!Bobby would be the last person you need.  

[Bergamot]

46 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Aaaaaaand I have seriously no idea what Badd is talking about here, it's the bloody opposite from what he used to say, see Article

As Myrelle says, it sounds like he is saying that as long as they were alive and on this Earth, there could never be peace for them. So it does really sound like they both die.

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Lolcanon!Badd would find a way and if it was a burning bush rolling by and screaming "btw, I brought Cas back".

 

LOL, Aeryn! Okay, now I want to see that happen! 😊

 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

There's still conflicting information as to whether Misha was in Vancouver and shot for 20 or not. At this point we obviously just have to wait until tomorrow.

Unless Jensen is really being careful, he was pretty specific about it being him, Jared, Rob and Jake (who he thought maybe he spoilered) in quarantine. Of course he didn't mention Jim either, who we know was there, but considering the context he talked about the other in - Zoom parties with the four of them - I would be surprised if Misha wasn't included. I guess there are other ways he could have shot footage to be included (maybe in LA?) but that would be a stretch.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The story structure mystifies me, as does the lack of guest actors on imdb. Pandemic or not. For that kind of storyline, AU!Bobby would be the last person you need.  

It occurs to me that AU Bobby could be a stand-in for all the AU people supposedly brought back by Gack? He could offer up the exposition that they were all back and safely re-installed into the lives they were leading PS (pre-Silo). And probably offer up endless gratitude to the Chief for keeping them safe in the end.

[Myrelle]

16 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

From the looks of it, I would say they might show one hunt, maybe the vampire one (and imply others) in the first part of the episode. That is when they have the cake-eating scene and earlier the scene in the bunker where Dean cleans the weapons. It`s when Dean wears the dark blue jacket. Give that all maybe 15-20 minutes or so

I'm wondering if those two things might possibly be a part of Dean's "heaven", not sure where or how they woukd fit into the episode like that though...

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Myrelle said:

I'm wondering if those two things might possibly be a part of Dean's "heaven", not sure where or how they woukd fit into the episode like that though...

I honestly can't see any hunting scenarios being part of Heaven, not when they know what Heaven really is. Unless he (or they) doesn't know he's dead, there is no reason for there to even be monsters in Heaven. I honestly won't accept any version of Memorex heaven for either of them at this point. If it truly is peace - just being with people you love(d), enjoying good things for eternity, maybe. But it's Heaven, there should be no people to save or things to hunt.

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I honestly can't see any hunting scenarios being part of Heaven, not when they know what Heaven really is. Unless he (or they) doesn't know he's dead, there is no reason for there to even be monsters in Heaven. I honestly won't accept any version of Memorex heaven for either of them at this point. If it truly is peace - just being with people you love(d), enjoying good things for eternity, maybe. But it's Heaven, there should be no people to save or things to hunt.

IDK, I guess I was just thinking that there could be hunting for Dean in His Heaven-but maybe the pie is more of what made me think that. 🙃

[ahrtee]

24 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m also expecting more of a Sam-fest. Though if Dean dies first, I don`t know how much time would be between that death and the final scene. And if that isn`t filled with lots of previous recurring characters, what would be the point? Not to mention, I don`t think Jensen shot any less material.

From the looks of it, I would say they might show one hunt, maybe the vampire one (and imply others) in the first part of the episode. That is when they have the cake-eating scene and earlier the scene in the bunker where Dean cleans the weapons. It`s when Dean wears the dark blue jacket. Give that all maybe 15-20 minutes or so?

Then there will be the fight scene in that barn. They are in different outfits here. If it does contain a death scene and everything, give it ten minutes overall. Maybe a bit more with some set up for that hunt. 

Maybe another five minutes at the end for the final scene.  

That leaves some bit in between of 5ish minutes to show what? 

The story structure mystifies me, as does the lack of guest actors on imdb. Pandemic or not. For that kind of storyline, AU!Bobby would be the last person you need.  

IA with your assessment of the timing.  I'm going to assume 5 minutes of them trying to adapt to the new, non-hamster-wheel world, then hearing about the vamp hunt, enjoying the prep work (cleaning, driving, cake-eating, etc.)  Then the fight/death scene, which I'm assuming is Dean.  

For the missing few minutes, we have a bit of Sam crying and "I'm proud of us." I can see two possible endings there:  one is all the other hunters gather (maybe at Dean's funeral) to await their orders from Sam, so he sees he has to "carry on" the Winchester legacy (and that he's not alone); or a repeat of SS ending, with him ringing a doorbell in tears and Eileen opening it.  No words necessary.  They can actually shoot one scene of Eileen at the house opening the door without her actually being in Vancouver (and therefore no quarantine necessary).  

I'm guessing the final scene at the car in the woods is after Sam kicks off (many years later), Dean comes to pick him up in Baby.  

My guess would be the "Sam takes the Winchester mantle and leads all the hunters" trope, with the final scene with Dean.  (I'd kind of hope if he finally got a happy life with a family, he'd want to be with them in heaven, not Dean, but I'm not a bronlie.)  

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

IA with your assessment of the timing.  I'm going to assume 5 minutes of them trying to adapt to the new, non-hamster-wheel world, then hearing about the vamp hunt, enjoying the prep work (cleaning, driving, cake-eating, etc.)  Then the fight/death scene, which I'm assuming is Dean.  

For the missing few minutes, we have a bit of Sam crying and "I'm proud of us." I can see two possible endings there:  one is all the other hunters gather (maybe at Dean's funeral) to await their orders from Sam, so he sees he has to "carry on" the Winchester legacy (and that he's not alone); or a repeat of SS ending, with him ringing a doorbell in tears and Eileen opening it.  No words necessary.  They can actually shoot one scene of Eileen at the house opening the door without her actually being in Vancouver (and therefore no quarantine necessary).  

I'm guessing the final scene at the car in the woods is after Sam kicks off (many years later), Dean comes to pick him up in Baby.  

My guess would be the "Sam takes the Winchester mantle and leads all the hunters" trope, with the final scene with Dean.  (I'd kind of hope if he finally got a happy life with a family, he'd want to be with them in heaven, not Dean, but I'm not a bronlie.)  

If they did a funeral scene, Jody and Donna at the very least should be there. That would have been important enough to bring the actors in IMO.

Btw, has anyone seen the other promo? It only holds one new clip from the ep. The brothers are in some little town and Sam asks Dean if he is crying and Dean says no.

Now he obviously isn't sad-crying but it appears he feels touched by something. Maybe it's happiness over being free, just being on  a hunt, before or after pie-eating. But something must have prompted an emotional reaction by Dean.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Binns]

52 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Unless Jensen is really being careful, he was pretty specific about it being him, Jared, Rob and Jake (who he thought maybe he spoilered) in quarantine. Of course he didn't mention Jim either, who we know was there, but considering the context he talked about the other in - Zoom parties with the four of them - I would be surprised if Misha wasn't included. I guess there are other ways he could have shot footage to be included (maybe in LA?) but that would be a stretch.

I wonder if he was talking about S15E19 tho? Because we aren’t expecting to see Michael tomorrow, are we? Maybe Adam? 
 

eta and why would we see Chuck?

Edited November 18, 2020 by Binns
Another thought

[Aeryn13]

13 minutes ago, Binns said:

I wonder if he was talking about S15E19 tho? Because we aren’t expecting to see Michael tomorrow, are we? Maybe Adam? 
 

eta and why would we see Chuck?

I think this interview was done pre-airing episode 19 and Jensen didn`t know when the interview would come out so he was careful that mentioning Jake Abel might be a spoiler at that point.

[gonzosgirrl]

25 minutes ago, Binns said:

I wonder if he was talking about S15E19 tho? Because we aren’t expecting to see Michael tomorrow, are we? Maybe Adam? 
 

eta and why would we see Chuck?

 

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think this interview was done pre-airing episode 19 and Jensen didn`t know when the interview would come out so he was careful that mentioning Jake Abel might be a spoiler at that point.

Yes, this. He was talking about being in quarantine, and that wasn't separate for 19/20.

[Binns]

46 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

Yes, this. He was talking about being in quarantine, and that wasn't separate for 19/20.

Oh, I see. So those are the ones and no others. Keeping Misha a secret is doable though. I don’t know...guess we’ll find out. 

[S Cook Productions]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Unless Jensen is really being careful, he was pretty specific about it being him, Jared, Rob and Jake (who he thought maybe he spoilered) in quarantine. Of course he didn't mention Jim either, who we know was there, but considering the context he talked about the other in - Zoom parties with the four of them - I would be surprised if Misha wasn't included. I guess there are other ways he could have shot footage to be included (maybe in LA?) but that would be a stretch.

There's also the possibility that Misha didn't have to quarantine. Folks that live on border towns in America but work in Canada didn't have to quarantine for day work. They were exempt. However, I think this is also a stretch (as is the fact that if he shot a scene in the Empty, he could literally do that anywhere on a black box). It's just one of many possibilities that exists. Unfortunately, I'm 85% sure that Misha is not going to be seen again. I'm sure we will get a line about Cas. Tumblr is convinced that he's in it though, and I feel for those poor souls- they are going to self-destruct when he's not and blow a gasket lol. I wish I was wrong as I'd love to see Cas one more time (I always hoped his endgame would be going human), but alas, I've resigned myself to the fact that I don't think it's in the cards, 😞

[Wynne88]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In this interview with EW, Jensen 'spoiler alerts' that it was him, Jared, Rob and (this was the spoiler alert) Jake Abel, were in quarantine together (apart). No mention of Misha. So unless he did film something on that one day before shutdown - unlikely, since it was 19 they were beginning and we've already seen that - he's not part of the finale - at least not with new material.

The thing that bothered me in that interview was when Jensen said they sat down with the writers, but it turned out not to be a brain storming session at all.  Instead they were told 'here's what we have, take it or leave it'.  Based on what Jared and Jensen had said at the end of last season about getting to sit down with the writers, I'm pretty sure they expected to be part of the discussion.  If I were Jensen, that right there would have made me less than enthusiastic about the ending.

[bethy]

3 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

Instead they were told 'here's what we have, take it or leave it'. 

That surprised and bothered me, too. It seems remarkably disrepectful of the two guys who had played the characters for 15 years. It sounds like they didn't even get sort of a courtesy, "What do you think?" and smacks of pettiness and a powerplay that infuriates me. Ugh.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

He also said that the most emotional day in the script/scene was not final day but the last Friday. Going by the QOTD on this day the final scene of that big fight scene was shot.

That would point a lot to it ending in a death scene, likely Dean.

Though then I'm not sure, Jensen kept filming and chronologically there would be a few scenes after that. Dean as a ghost hanging around? Then a final reunion in the afterlife?

I wouldn't mind Dean dying so much, even on a regular hunt if it had purpose to it. Saving someone, preferably a civilian again for a change. And it wasn't done stupidly/due to incompetence. Also his legacy got acknowledged.

But with no real recurring characters around - AU!Bobby wouldn't give a shit really - there is nothing to give it weight.

 

Aaaaaaand I have seriously no idea what Badd is talking about here, it's the bloody opposite from what he used to say, see Article

 

Does the fact that the Wayward Son trailer have a Dean narration mean anything... .

Maybe he is the one that lives to tell the tale.

It struck me that they chose Dean narration for the last episode.

46 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

There's also the possibility that Misha didn't have to quarantine. Folks that live on border towns in America but work in Canada didn't have to quarantine for day work. They were exempt. However, I think this is also a stretch (as is the fact that if he shot a scene in the Empty, he could literally do that anywhere on a black box). It's just one of many possibilities that exists. Unfortunately, I'm 85% sure that Misha is not going to be seen again. I'm sure we will get a line about Cas. Tumblr is convinced that he's in it though, and I feel for those poor souls- they are going to self-destruct when he's not and blow a gasket lol. I wish I was wrong as I'd love to see Cas one more time (I always hoped his endgame would be going human), but alas, I've resigned myself to the fact that I don't think it's in the cards, 😞

New female vessel would blow some minds...

[Aeryn13]

An actual sneak peak Here

Wow, this is certainly old school. 

Also, another costume change. 

Now that looks like only one hunt in the episode, the one with vamps. So the stupid looking things in the barn are vamps. I'm with Dean, evil mimes would have fit better.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Binns]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

An actual sneak peak Here

Wow, this is certainly old school. 

Also, another costume change. 

Now that looks like only one hunt in the episode, the one with vamps. So the stupid looking things in the barn are vamps. I'm with Dean, evil mimes would have fit better.

It’s so brightly lit. Could they be in heaven?

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, Binns said:

It’s so brightly lit. Could they be in heaven?

I don't think so. Unless they've been in heaven for years. Remember the start of the Season and the "scary" ghosts in super-bright daylight?

[shoetingstar]

11 hours ago, Binns said:

I feel like the pandemic must have really hampered some of what they wanted to do just because they couldn’t bring back all of the actors. Unfortunate. But not really their fault. I’m looking forward to the first con or interviews etc. after Thursday where we get more info about what changed due to covid. 

I suspect whatever possible Backlash or criticism that could come out of the finale will be pinned solely on Ms. Corona COVID, whether justified or not.

Edited November 19, 2020 by shoetingstar

[Aeryn13]

Jared said something about people who don't cry 5-10 minutes before it ends have no soul.

IMO a Dean death scene at that point is all but certain. Then a quick "this is how life goes on" and then the final scene of reuniting where Dean "picks up" Sam after he died and they both go to heaven.

The concept itself, I can live with. The execution will matter. And the speeches undoubtedly to happen.

IMO a good way to close it out would be another montage but this time solely of the people they saved. Or put it before they go out. That would serve as a legacy reminder. 

 

[Terese]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don't think so. Unless they've been in heaven for years. Remember the start of the Season and the "scary" ghosts in super-bright daylight?

Lol. That was terrifying, wasn't it? I wanted to go hide in the closet when they started running down the street. 

This is the aspect of self awareness versus mockery, I have wondered about this season. There is no way that anyone writing, acting, directing, filming or editing could have intended it to be anything but laughable.

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, Terese said:

Lol. That was terrifying, wasn't it? I wanted to go hide in the closet when they started running down the street. 

This is the aspect of self awareness versus mockery, I have wondered about this season. There is no way that anyone writing, acting, directing, filming or editing could have intended it to be anything but laughable.

The woman from Game of Thrones ringing the bell and calling out "shaaaaaame" was the only thing missing.

[Terese]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The woman from Game of Thrones ringing the bell and calling out "shaaaaaame" was the only thing missing.

I gave up on that show after a few episodes. Too sadistic. But I heard the ending was atrocious. 

Seriously, do you think it is mockery or ...it can't possibly have been legitimate? Or maybe they really did focus on the 12 year old audience? Dumbed down dialogue and Harry Potter spells and hissing talking snakes. 

[Terese]

45 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jared said something about people who don't cry 5-10 minutes before it ends have no soul.

IMO a Dean death scene at that point is all but certain. Then a quick "this is how life goes on" and then the final scene of reuniting where Dean "picks up" Sam after he died and they both go to heaven.

The concept itself, I can live with. The execution will matter. And the speeches undoubtedly to happen.

IMO a good way to close it out would be another montage but this time solely of the people they saved. Or put it before they go out. That would serve as a legacy reminder. 

 

We have seen Dean die. Heartfelt and shattering in season 3; as well as comically. We saw him brutally gunned down in season 5. And again killed, in season 9, which was really touching. They can't top that. I hope they don't do that.

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Terese said:

I gave up on that show after a few episodes. Too sadistic. But I heard the ending was atrocious. 

Seriously, do you think it is mockery or ...it can't possibly have been legitimate? Or maybe they really did focus on the 12 year old audience? Dumbed down dialogue and Harry Potter spells and hissing talking snakes. 

No, it was legitimate. The writers wrote for their adoring twitter crowd who validated them in everything, in short: a giant ego trip.

1 minute ago, Terese said:

We have seen Dean die. Heartfelt and shattering in season 3; as well as comically. We saw him brutally gunned down in season 5. And again killed, in season 9, which was really touching. They can't top that. I hope they don't do that.

But this time it will be final and everyone knows it.

[Terese]

2 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I suspect whatever possible Backlash or criticism that could come out of the finale will be pinned solely on Ms. Corona COVID, whether justified or not.

Yeah, they can't keep blaming Chuck.

[Terese]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

No, it was legitimate. The writers wrote for their adoring twitter crowd who validated them in everything, in short: a giant ego trip.

But this time it will be final and everyone knows it.

Well, yes. I just hope it isn't all clumsy and artless. Everything they do is so over the top melodrama and insincere.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, Terese said:

We have seen Dean die. Heartfelt and shattering in season 3; as well as comically. We saw him brutally gunned down in season 5. And again killed, in season 9, which was really touching. They can't top that. I hope they don't do that.

Maybe he dies and it's a Dean OPT Sammy don't you die on me scene. Dean is the one with the obsession to save Sam at all costs and San is the one who is supposed to have a life outside of hunting not Dean. Maybe Jared is all jazzed because he thinks he did an awesome death scene.

[Castiels Cat]

20 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

An actual sneak peak Here

Wow, this is certainly old school. 

Also, another costume change. 

Now that looks like only one hunt in the episode, the one with vamps. So the stupid looking things in the barn are vamps. I'm with Dean, evil mimes would have fit better.

Vamp mimes... callback to vampirites from Blood Brothers. 

Chuck's prophecy said that they would be turned into vamps when he was gone.

I really hope they do not go that route.

Could they get turned and commit suicide by sun.

It is pretty old school.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Bergamot]

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

An actual sneak peak Here

Wow, this is certainly old school.

I like seeing John's journal being used one more time! It does bring me back to the beginning, and it made me happy to see it.

I wish we could also see them stay in a crappy motel room with some bizarre decorating scheme, just one more time. I will NOT miss the MOL bunker; I think the show really lost something when they settled down in there.  Plus I disliked the cold, sterile, windowless ambience with all that harsh artificial lighting. All things considered, I would rather have them discussing the case outside over the Impala in the sunshine than have another scene in the bunker.

One of my reactions to this scene was to think, "What a beautiful old tree!" I was pleased to see something on Twitter (here) with a picture of Kim Manners standing in front of this tree on his last location survey for the show. So using this particular spot was a way of remembering him in the finale, which is just lovely.

One thought that I had while watching this scene was ironically, how at peace Dean and Sam seemed to be with where they were at this point. I think maybe Dabb was wrong in that last interview, when he said that Dean and Sam could never be at peace as long as there was something out there they needed to hunt. I could be wrong, and maybe all they want to do is sit on a beach, but I don't see "saving people, hunting things" as the reason they could never find peace.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Bergamot

[ILoveReading]

7 hours ago, Binns said:

It’s so brightly lit. Could they be in heaven?

This is what I'm wondering and even more than the brightly lit scene, when Dean mentions vampmimes, Sam gives an amused smile and not his bitch, annoyed face.  That was a huge clue.

Sam being amused by his jokes, pie, milk run old school hunt with John's journal, its almost too perfect.    Too old fashioned.   While this should indicate its Dean's heaven, Dabb doesn't' know the characters at all so this could easily be Sam's, even if it doesn't really fit.  But I am expecting some kind of let go message for Dean.

We know that Jim Beaver is in this ep, and Misha is credited with a voice credit, so I have two different theories about what may happen.  Dabb did say we'd see our Bobby so I'm guessing this is him and not AU Bobby.  (Also why I don't by covid as an excuse if Misha isn't in the ep.  They brought Jim Beaver back to Vancouver, quarantined him for two weeks  for what I've heard is one scene.

1. Dean is dead but doesn't know it.  Sam does that killing himself thing to talk to Dean in heaven,  Bobby is Sam's spirit guide telling Sam he has to tell Dean and convince him to let go.  Because Sam has to return to his body and this is the big emotional scene.  Sam goes back to Earth, Dean stays in Heaven, we get a montage of Sam living his best life, Sam dies of old age.  Dean picks him up.

2. One of both brothers almost dies in the hunt and Sam decides he want more out of life.  He convinces Dean to let him go.  Montage of Sam living his best life with Dean doing stuff.  Brothers die of old age, meet in heaven.

 

 

[ILoveReading]

29 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

I don't see "saving people, hunting things" as the reason they could never find peace.

IMO, this is where Dabb truly doesn't understand what this series is about and what made it so special.  A perfect life wasn't just apple pie and a white picket fence.  Dean has said often and repeatedly, that his peace was helping people.  In season 1 before all the loss and cosmic stuff started, Dean truly enjoyed the hunt.    

One thing the early seasons did so well was the way the MOTW cases paralleled the brothers.   Its why I will never but Bugs on a worst episode list.  It gave us so much insight into the way the brothers saw each other.

How much better could this season have been if Dabb had actually gone small and intimate, and used the final season to explore the Winchesters as individuals and what their lives would be like without the cosmic dieties pulling the strings, rather than leaving it to the last 42 minutes.  Leave Jack dead, and give Shoshanna regular status and build the relationship between Sam and Eileen.  Because right now it looks like two strangers trying to pretend they have feelings for each other.  Turn Cas human be having him sacrifice his grace to defeat the big bad last season.  Rebuild Cas and Dean's relationship. 

Then have them do MOTW cases and use those to parallel the issues the brothers might have.  Bring up plot threads that were dropped.

The final season could really have been good, even with little effort from Dabb, if he understood what the show was really about rather than just a lazy, copy and paste of s11. 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Binns]

7 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jared said something about people who don't cry 5-10 minutes before it ends have no soul.

IMO a Dean death scene at that point is all but certain. Then a quick "this is how life goes on" and then the final scene of reuniting where Dean "picks up" Sam after he died and they both go to heaven.

The concept itself, I can live with. The execution will matter. And the speeches undoubtedly to happen.

IMO a good way to close it out would be another montage but this time solely of the people they saved. Or put it before they go out. That would serve as a legacy reminder. 

 

I wouldn’t mind this if they do it well but why would Jensen not like it?

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

I wouldn’t mind this if they do it well but why would Jensen not like it?

I don't think he wanted them to die. He probably would have gone more for the open end like ep 19 did.

[Myrelle]

2 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I like seeing John's journal being used one more time! It does bring me back to the beginning, and it made me happy to see it.

I wish we could also see them stay in a crappy motel room with some bizarre decorating scheme, just one more time. I will NOT miss the MOL bunker; I think the show really lost something when they settled down in there.  Plus I disliked the cold, sterile, windowless ambience with all that harsh artificial lighting. All things considered, I would rather have them discussing the case outside over the Impala in the sunshine than have another scene in the bunker.

One of my reactions to this scene was to think, "What a beautiful old tree!" I was pleased to see something on Twitter (here) with a picture of Kim Manners standing in front of this tree on his last location survey for the show. So using this particular spot was a way of remembering him in the finale, which is just lovely.

One thought that I had while watching this scene was ironically, how at peace Dean and Sam seemed to be with where they were at this point. I think maybe Dabb was wrong in that last interview, when he said that Dean and Sam could never be at peace as long as there was something out there they needed to hunt. I could be wrong, and maybe all they want to do is sit on a beach, but I don't see "saving people, hunting things" as the reason they could never find peace.

I love that info about Kim Manners. 

IMO, he was the true genius and artist bts of this show.

And that part of it was never the same to me after his death; and for that reason I count s1-4 as the heyday of SPN. 

It was a slow decline, but it started with that sad event, IMO.

And I love when they do things like this to honor his memory.

And IA about the hunting part not being the big reason that they couldn't find peace in this life, Bergamot.

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam being amused by his jokes, pie, milk run old school hunt with John's journal, its almost too perfect.    Too old fashioned.

Yes!

I thought so, too. 

I'll just add that watching Dean "die" has never gotten old to me. 

It always gets to me and likely always will.

Bringing that to the screen is one of Jensen's greatest strengths as an actor, IMO.

OTOH, his crying over Sam is something that rarely moves me at all anymore-but I think that has more to do with it being Sam than his crying, because we know that he can cry like no one else, too.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam being amused by his jokes, pie, milk run old school hunt with John's journal, its almost too perfect.  

Right up there with Dean knowing John was possessed because he praised him for using the Colt. Maybe this is how Dean sees through the "Memorex" heaven.

[Bobcatkitten]

I'm at peace with Dean dying - even it's a garden-variety of hunt. Because that's what he loves - saving people, hunting things. And he gives his all every day even if it's not an apocolypse. 

[Aeryn13]

I feel a little verklempt right now. Despite everything, this show once gave me great joy and it deserves some respect for its longevity. Especially because during the Ostroff years they had it really hard. 

Love the nod to Kim Manners. And I fully agree, he was the talent behind the best things from a production standpoint. That wire fight never would have seen the light of day under Kim.

Final odds for the episode:

70:30 that Dean dies in that vamp hunt somehow and the ending is a heaven reunion. 

40:60 that both die there and everything that comes after is a prolongued goodbye and moving on for both.

20:80 that it is revealed one or both are already dead in the beginning.

50:50 that Badd does something completely weird.

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Right up there with Dean knowing John was possessed because he praised him for using the Colt. Maybe this is how Dean sees through the "Memorex" heaven.

Aww man, that is so sad because finally they do a good, old-fashioned scene that used to happen all the time and maybe this is a clue that it is fake.

[ILoveReading]

https://ew.com/tv/supernatural-jared-padalecki-final-season-interview/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_content=manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=5fb697e4a9f908000141c472

Jared talking about the finale.

No real spoilers., except he describes it as:  ""wonderfully tragic" and "wonderfully optimistic."